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The Verducci Effect: Are Our Pitchers at Risk?

I need to talk to nickatt7 ASAP. Can you email me at baseballgirl1976 at hotmail?

A few weeks ago, we discussed Will Carroll's Team Health Reports, which labeled both Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson as "red" health risks. We did some speculation at the time as to whether or not the young pitchers would fall into the "Verducci Effect" (which says that pitchers under the age of 25 who have 30-inning increases year over year tend to underperform).

Tom Verducci himself actually addresses the A's pitchers specifically in this article for SI.com, which was written a few weeks ago, but I think is very relevant to the upcoming season.

A wave of young pitching has washed ashore. Last year more 25-and-under pitchers made at least 10 starts than any time in the history of the game (71), including a 69 percent increase from five years ago. In just the past 13 months teams have handed out contract extensions that bought out free agent years of young homegrown stars Zack Greinke, Jon Lester, Josh Johnson, Ubaldo Jimenez, Felix Hernandez and Justin Verlander.

Verducci's concern is that young pitchers can be overused when they are not yet a) physically matured and b) fully conditioned. Verducci has been studying this effect for more than a decade, and as many of you know, the A's pitching coach Rick Peterson was right at the forefront of some of this research. Verducci explains: 

I defined an at-risk pitcher as any 25-and-under pitcher who increased his innings log by more than 30 in a year in which he pitched in the big leagues. Each year the breakdown rate of such red-flagged pitchers -- either by injury or drop in performance -- was staggering.

I called the trend the Year After Effect, though it caught on in some places as the Verducci Effect. As I was tracking this trend, the industry already was responding to the breakdown in young pitchers. The Yankees instituted the Joba Rules. The Orioles shut down pitchers late in the year. Teams set "target innings" for their young pitchers before camp even began. Clubs sent underworked starters to the Arizona Fall League to build their arms to better withstand regular work the next year.

Still, by oversight, circumstances or old school "take-it-as-it-comes" thinking, teams continue to overload young pitchers, which is why the Verducci Effect is still in business, with 10 pitchers red-flagged for 2010.

The first time Verducci ran the numbers, he came up with two pitchers on the Oakland A's: Brett Anderson and Trevor Cahill. No surprise there, right?

Actually, he was surprised, considering what the A's should know--better than anyone else--about pitcher health. 

How could they of all teams, I wondered, let Brett Anderson and Trevor Cahill take jumps of 55 and 54 1/3 innings in 2009?

Star-divide

The short answer is: They didn't.

The A's may not be able to explain why Geren and Duchscherer communicate through the media. They may not be able to explain why Chavez will stay healthy this year, or why Travis Buck will do his best work in Triple-A. But if there's one thing the Oakland A's are careful about, it is statistics, and in this case, Verducci metrics.

"Oh, no," Oakland GM Billy Beane told me. "We didn't. We always keep an eye on the Verducci metrics.

What we didn't know at the time of the health reports (and may account for some of Carroll's numbers?) was that both Anderson and Cahill pitched for the 2008 U.S. Olympic team, so although their professional statistics show a large innings increase, their actual innings pitched do not. As Verducci puts it, "Goodbye red flags." So there you have it, straight from the source; Anderson/Cahill actually do not fall into the Verducci Effect.

Beane explains further:

"We always keep an eye on that, especially when we get to September," Beane said. "In fact, we backed off them in September [with extra days of rest and lower pitch counts] just because of that. They each wound up in the 170s in innings, which was perfect. They're right on track this year to go out and make 30 to 35 starts and throw right around 200 innings. We think that's the natural progression."

Verducci goes on to talk about the care that Beane took during Hudson, Mulder and Zito's careers with the A's; he says that Beane has always been an advocate of the theory that pitchers only have so many throws in their arms, which made him a easy sell for Peterson's hard data.

"One thing I told Rick was, 'I can be sold if you give me information,'" Beane said. "I don't pretend to know the answer. Nobody knows. But this just makes sense. Given a choice between too much throwing at too young an age and being conservative, we'll always take the conservative route. Look, Hudson, Mulder, Zito . . . we took good care of those guys."

This not to say that Anderson and Cahill are at no risk of injury; obviously, Carroll believes there is some risk with our young pitchers, but it might not be as bad at it initially appeared. Or in other words, we can now go back to worrying about Duchscherer and Sheets.

Today's game is vs. the Brewers at 12:00. I will be at Spring Training tomorrow!

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but...but

Duke threw 32 pitches without pain!! what’s there to worry about???

"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything that I thought it could be." -- Peter Gibbons

by dtownmbrown on Mar 11, 2010 7:10 AM PST reply actions  

actual data showing a correlation of innings increase to subsequent injury

does it exist? everything i’ve heard and read is mostly anectdotal and typically mentions the same high profile cases over and over.

i’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that the A’s know more about pitcher’s health than tom verducci.

by Livermore on Mar 11, 2010 7:10 AM PST reply actions  

Apropos of not much

the banner ad at the top is telling me about a job I applied for three days ago. Take it down! No-one else must know!

Carry on.

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Mar 11, 2010 7:44 AM PST reply actions  

This is SUCH a nice article to wake up to.

I’ve been sort of anxiety-plagued since that original article on Verducci came out about Anderson. It’s also really cool to see Beane say “we keep an eye on the metrics.”

A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."

by paris7 on Mar 11, 2010 7:53 AM PST reply actions  

This isn't much more than a gut feeling,

but if any pitcher has the “ability” to beat the Verducci Effect, it’s Brett Anderson. His dad’s a pitching coach. I’m sure everything about his conditioning and his mechanics are as close to perfect as possible.

Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.

by danmerqury on Mar 11, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, there's a model that's supposedly puts the least strain on your body.

But it definitely depends on each pitcher’s body somewhat. The SBNation blog Driveline Mechanics is a pretty great read.

Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.

by danmerqury on Mar 11, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Pitcher specific

The ‘analysts’ don’t like to admit that one though

by Graham MacAree on Mar 11, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions  

This is Good Info but it's not Enough

We still have suffered far too many DL trips the last 2 seasons despite following the advice of Verducci effect statistics. The next step is to get data on arm angles and what types of pitches and throwing motions are more dangerous than others to a pitcher’s health. We also still know very little about how to keep hitters healthy. The practice of giving catchers extra rest may need to be extended to other positions.

You can change your job, you can change your wife, you can even change your gender, but you can never change your club.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
Fear no foe, wherever we go.

by johnjahafanclub on Mar 11, 2010 8:00 AM PST reply actions  

Methinks the Cardinals would quibble over the A's' quality of care regarding Mulder

But hey, they got a good season out of him.

"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."

by Joey C. on Mar 11, 2010 8:35 AM PST reply actions  

that's what I was thinking

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Mar 11, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

we can now go back to worrying about Duchscherer and Sheets

I never stopped

don’t feed the trolls, they’ll multiply like a wet Gizmo.....Mr Tea

by adragon on Mar 11, 2010 9:19 AM PST reply actions  

Can Someone Explain...
The A’s may not be able to explain why Geren and Duchscherer communicate through the media.

I don’t get this—did I miss something?

by TnSD11 on Mar 11, 2010 9:38 AM PST reply actions  

last week Geren told a media person that he didn't think Duke would be ready for opening day

when Duke was told by the media he said something to the fact that Geren’s view was unknown to him until they mentioned it. Duke thinks he can make the opening day roster but Geren has his doubts, but apparently never told Duke that.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Mar 11, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Ah...

Okay that makes sense. Seems typical on both parts to me. Player wants to play (and is even willing to go at <100) and Coach is being cautious.

I was probably reading too much into it.

by TnSD11 on Mar 11, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

I just have to wonder why Geren said anything at all, you know?

Why not just see how it goes with Duke before he makes a statement like that about his starting pitcher, you know?

"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est

by baseballgirl on Mar 11, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

the media person probably asked specifically

although he didn’t have to give an answer, he usually would be vague anyways so it weird. maybe he thought the training staff or pitching coach had already talked to Duke.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Mar 11, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

except that Geren thinks Duke needs to be strethed out to 100 pitches

in order to start the season, while Duke thinks he only needs to stretch to 75 pitches.

Somehow I doubt Geren thought they’d already spoken to Duke..I think we saw a disconnect between the two.

by OaklandSi on Mar 11, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

definitly disconnected

I was thinking along these lines.

Bob Geren – “Curt, I thought you told Duke we wanted him stretched out to 100 pitches before being put on the roster?”

Curt Young – “Ron, I thought you told Duke we wanted him stretched out to 100 pitches before being put on the roster?”

Ron Romanick – “Curt, I’m the BULLPEN coach. Duke is a starter, why would I talk to him?”

Bob – “What about the training staff? Didn’t Larry say anything to him?”

Curt – “Um, you realize Sayles is the head athletic trainer now right? We move Larry I long time ago.”

Bob – “but I thought our head trainer was the tye die t-shirt guy?”

Curt – “Nope”

Bob – “huh, maybe stomper talked to duke?”

Curt and Ron – “sigh

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Mar 11, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I can see them thinking differently

but it is kind of weird that they aren’t discussing it together. i guess Geren is too busy, but you think his “#2” starter would be high on his priority list.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Mar 11, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Great article!

Thanks for posting! A great and informative read. Glad to know that we only have the normal things to worry about regarding the health of our players (I’m still scared!) and not something additonal.

Tear down Mount Davis!

by polytician on Mar 11, 2010 10:12 AM PST reply actions  

good stuff

I liked how Beane gave straight answers and not vague generalizations.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Mar 11, 2010 10:26 AM PST reply actions  

ME TOO!

I really, really liked Beane’s quotes in this article. A lot.

"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est

by baseballgirl on Mar 11, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

statistics also show

that at the current rate of increase, all five A’s starters will be veterans of the U.S. Olympic team by 2012.

by vk on Mar 11, 2010 12:00 PM PST reply actions  

Not only is there no evidence supporting Verducci

But guess who would have made appearances on Verducci’s list?

Mark Mulder in 2001 and 2002 and Tim Hudson in 2000 and 2002.

by Danny on Mar 11, 2010 4:46 PM PST reply actions  

I wouldn't worry as much about Cahill but Anderson is worrisome...

Over at Razzball, we’ve done a deeper dive into this and found a few flaws in Verducci’s thinking.

The ‘under 25’ isn’t important – it’s just whether a pitcher is used to the rigors of a full baseball season.

The other thing he doesn’t consider – that we do – is pitch selection. We’ve found that the % of sliders is an indicator that a pitcher will stumble the next year (either a notable reduction in pitches or performance).

So the positive is that Trevor Cahill doesn’t appear to be a big risk as he’s mostly a FB/Changeup pitcher. The bad news is Brett Anderson is #1 on our risky pitcher list. It’s possible his arm can handle a slider count that Randy Johnson had in his prime but that can’t be easy on the elbow….

http://razzball.com/20-risky-pitchers-for-2010/

by rudygamble on Mar 15, 2010 1:30 PM PDT reply actions  

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