Of Rising Stars, the Angels as Champs, Buck's Plummeting Stock and Lew Wolff as Rachel Phelps
If you haven’t yet read about the ANTS (Athletics Nation Tanzania), you really should. I'm serious. Go read it.
Yesterday's live chat with CSNBayArea's Mychael Urban was interesting, to say the least. It was certainly heavy on the Giants reporting; I suppose understandably, but I raised my eyebrows at the answers to every A's question. Just to be clear, this is not set up to bash Urban; whatever season projections he gave certainly can't be as far off as some of the early PECOTA data, and I am wildly curious about a couple of his outside comments.
Urban answered three different questions about Buck during the chat, he offered an all-but-unsolicited conspiracy theory about the A's as the Indians in Major League, picked the Angels to win the division, and went off the map with the three A's players he picked to have a breakout 2010. It's a bit crazy-town, but it's the best chat to discuss that I've seen in a while.
We all know that there is much, much more than meets the eye regarding the career of Travis Buck, and no amount of discussion will really resolve the question: What could have Travis Buck done personally to turn himself from a promising 23-24 year old rookie into a persona non grata with the A's at the ripe old age of 26?
BuckFan starts the A's questions with:
Urbs- Loved your piece about Buck. What's behind this as far as the A's are concerned? Is this about lighting a fire under his butt?
CSN Mychael Urban:
Thanks, BuckFan. I don't think it's about lighting a fire. Part of it does seem personal, but results are what matter most in this game. Hard to think that if Buck had hit .350 with big power and on-base numbers in Sac that the jerking-around wouldn't stop, right?
Actually, I'm not sure what sort of numbers Buck would have had to put up, because I don't think Buck's absence can be classified as all performance-based.
But we continue with Pete:
Isnt Buck to blame here. A's put a ton of hype on him back in 2008 and he's failed since. Even his "great" rookie season was barely 300 ab's and get got injured then too. IMO he belongs in the bust trash bin just like putnam, robnett, hererra, melillo etc
CSN Mychael Urban:
He openly accepts blame for his early 2008 failures. Says he let the expectations get into his head and handled it poorly. And yeah, the frequent injuries and lack of production give those looking to take the A's side plenty of ammo. He admits that, too. But you don't know the half of it. He's been treated pretty poorly. All of his teammates will back that up.
Yes, Pete. Let's label Buck a bust based on 38 games of data in 2008 and 36 in 2009. Perhaps Pete is being tongue-in-cheek, as he realizes that effectively, that is exactly what the A's have appeared to do. I think Urban's answer is right on the money; Buck did lose the starting job in 2008. But let's be honest; coming from the same team that fielded Bobby Crosby (who was "hyped" way more than Buck ever was) and his sub-.240 batting average for SIX DAMN YEARS, it's laughable, really. Actually, it's not even that funny, but it's pretty clear that the A's have something against Travis Buck.
Urban answers one more question about it, very simply:
I think Buck will end up getting traded.
I certainly hope so, for his sake. And also that he eventually writes a tell-all book.
I feel like the next chat question was merely the vehicle used to get the conspiracy theory out there. It didn't need to be said, but it was, and although Urban denies up and down (both in this question and another part of the chat) that he believe it or finds any credence in it, he still passes it along:
Beanie:
Are the A's wedded to Billy Beane forever? How many missed playoffs and 10K fan days will A's ownership take going forward?
CSN Mychael Urban:
This is a good time to toss out a conspiracy theory I've heard: Maybe the A's don't want to be all that good. Maybe they don't want to draw many fans. Maybe they see it as a way to convince Bud Selig that Oakland is truly untenable and San Jose needs to be opened up. I don't buy it, but I see why the theory exists.
Please take special care to note that the question was actually asking about the A's relationship to Billy Beane, and if the ownership blames him for missed playoffs and the fan attendance, and if they will be making a personnel change. The question is then answered with the plot to Major League. Of course he can't say that it has any kernel of truth to it; none of us can, but it is now in print.
(dramatic pause)
And although AN and PECOTA (more on this Friday) have picked Seattle, the A's, and now Texas to win the West in 2010, Urban likes the Angels. And even gives a reason:
The Angels have four very good starters, the best manager in the game (in my opinion), a solid bullpen and some awfully good hitters in Hunter, Morales, Kendrick, Matsui and Abreu. They're my favorites, still.
Following that, Urban sums up the A's portion of the chat by picking A's players who will have a breakout 2010. I like that he doesn't give the standard "Brett Anderson" answer.
Instead, Urban gives us Devine (even with all of the health concerns), Cahill (who may or may not even crack the starting rotation), and Ryan Sweeney. Bold choices.
Where do we even start? Discuss.
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Devine?
He doesn’t consider a .59 ERA in 45.2 innings with a .83 WHIP being a breakout? That’s not bold. That’s like saying Albert Pujols will breakout.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on Feb 3, 2010 8:15 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Noooo!
If Pujols breaks out, that means he’s on roids, right? People just don’t get that kind of acne at that age without the roids…
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 3, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Urban
I don’t hate the dude like many on this site do. That said, he is full of shit a great deal of the time. He made some comment about Rob Neyer and spreadsheets colliding with reasoned logic or some such garbage.
The Giants outperformed pythag last year by a bit and haven’t really made themselves all that better (an argument could be made they made themselves worse). Why is it reasonable to expect them to improve? Why is it unreasonable to expect them to drop a place in the standings? It’s this sort of crap that annoys me about him.
Attractive Women + Baseball Knowledge = Yes Please
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Jane Lee!

"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 4, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
Very Strange
Sitting at an internet cafe in Chiang Mai, Thailand, following some really bizarre moves on the part of Billy Beane - Gabe Gross, a mediocre talent who can fieldi, drives out Travis Buck and Eric Patterson, and ensures that Michael Taylor spends an entire season in AAA? Paying $4M on a DFA contract in order to get a backup infielder? And I thought I was in a foreign country.
So I met this monk yesterday at Wat Suan Dok Temple, and if there’s such a thing as enlightened, this guy is it. Of COURSE, he’s a huge baseball fan. Saw the pandas at Chiang Mai Zoo today and yes, they really do look like they play third base for the Giants.
by richwol1 on Feb 3, 2010 8:30 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Gabe Gross
could be a 2 WAR player for $1 million, and is a much better bet than either Buck or Patterson. We took on the equivalent of $1.6 million in the Rosales/Miles Trade, and Rosales is projected to be worth $7.2 million dollars more ($5.6 million vs. -$1.6million per CHONE) than Miles, not to say we may be able to trade Taveras, eating some of the money, making that deal look even better.
Other than the Geren-incident re: Buck (i.e. sending him down, then back up when he was hurt) there really has been nothing reported for Buck to be upset about. He’s sucked, and now he needs to prove himself. He needs eat some humble pie, work on the skill of staying healthy, and should be bright enough to know that inuries could get him some playing time.
P.S. Urban is either a fool or just provoking some reactions via sensational journalism. Billy Beane is way too competitive to throw away wins. There is no evidence to back up these rumors, and tons of eveidence against them.
by librariansunite on Feb 3, 2010 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
Milton Bradley
Billy Beane is way too competitive to throw away wins.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Feb 3, 2010 8:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't Milty Wilty insinuate that Beane was racist?
shortly before he left?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 3, 2010 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
Milty insinuated many things on his way out of many places.
All except that he had any fault in his being shit canned from Cleveland, LA, Oakland or Chicago
least of all he tried to kill Esteban Loaiza during that playoff game against the Twins.
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
there was nothing wrong with that
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 3, 2010 11:53 PM PST up reply actions
Yes he did
And I can’t disagree. After all, he chose Bobby Crosby over Miguel Tejada. PROOF.
That was actually a writer from the Oakland Tribune,
in an article that was expunged from the internets about two seconds after it was published.
this is my total agreement
Yes, Buck is still a promising player. Yes, he’s still young enough that he could put it all together. But his lousy showing in the Majors over the past two years is compounded by the fact that he didn’t really tear up AAA in 2008 or 2009 either.
Maybe this is all due to a series of freak injuries, which he will get past and then proceed to put up numbers like he did in his 2007 half-season. But I think that going into 2010 with any expectations for Travis Buck would be almost as irresponsible as relying on Chavvy to start at 3B. I hope that Buck puts it all together (and I think that he definitely has a shot to play his way onto the 25 man roster), but I’m not counting on it.
he wasn't healthy in 2007
he played 82 games and never 4 days in a row.
BUck did get screwed by Geren in that he was called up to sit on the bench a couple of times but Travis buck has never played more than 100 games in any season.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
I think the point was...
…not that Billy was throwing away wins, but he is/was limited as to the talent of the personnel on the field. And Urban says he doesn’t believe a word of that rumor.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
kinda bad journalism though
“Some think people lived along side dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are fossilized bones, we find fossilized people bones too. I don’t believe it, but I see why that theory exists.”
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Hahaha, hey, I'm with you there.
It’s why I brought it up. Why suggest something like that out of the blue, and say, “Hey, SOME people think this, but not me, nope, but let me bring it up and tell you allllllll about it!”
So strange.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
Partial dissent
Sometimes if a crazy conspiracy theory is rampant it can be responsible to discuss it as a way of showing what circumstances exist that would lead people to believe such a thing. Often these things sprout when someone above is doing a bad job of explaining what’s really going on.
I could imagine such a story with regard to the A’s and Buck, though I don’t think that’s what Urban is doing here with his little drive-by “let me toss this out” remark.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
but there is a considerable amount of research
that shows that denying and disproving a crazy conspiracy theory will actually reinforce it in many people’s minds. Here is one link: article (pdf)
Paying $4M on a DFA contract in order to get a backup infielder?
either you’re not really understanding the trade or you’re being disingenuous.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Feb 3, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
are you kidding me? you’re in chiang mai looking at the same internet we have back home, when you COULD be running from food stand to food stand eating bowl after bowl of khao soi? don’t tell me… you flew a cheap airline and in transit they lost the bag where you keep your priorities?
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Feb 3, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I was having a morning cup of coffee...
…dealing with an erratic internet, which is why I missed out on Slusser’s extended explanation of why Rosales only cost $1.6M. My priorities aren’t that far off.
Went out to the Forest Wat today and wandered the city some more. My stomach has been pretty funky since I got here, so running from food stand to food stand sounds a lot less appealing at this end.
Heading to the airport to go back to BKK in a little while, sipping on authentic Vietnamese coffee. Don’t know if that’s screwed priorities or not.
Made the really dum mistake....
…of eating food stand sausage. It was very tasty but it’s effects linger.
My problem with Buck and the A's
Since the A’s were out of the race by all star break why not give Buck a chance to prove he bleongs or not. Sorry to say using these guys that had no chance to play in the long run made no sense. Buck should have been playing the last 3 months of the season not the Patterson or Carsons of the world. The opportunity for Buck to prove himself is now gone. Unless he has a awesome spring his days in Oakland are long gone. Barton is given every chance to prove himself so why not Buck. Its time for the A’s to give some of these players their shot to prove themselves instead of signing a bunch of retreads like the giants do.
Carson and Patterson both hit considerably better
in Sacramento than Buck did.
People need to look at the Rivercats numbers before making their Buck arguments. If you still think there’s something to it, fine, let’s hear it. But otherwise there’s always a very simple answer to the “why wasn’t Buck called up?” question.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I think Buck hit poorly in Sac because he was pissy, not because he couldn't rake AAA pitching...
He sure had the Matt Holliday look on his face late last year in Sac, I can assure you folks that.
I think if Buck is in a nurturing situation with management massaging his fragile little ego and letting him sit whenever he’s not 100%, he could be a productive player…. So trade him to the Royals or something…
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 3, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
I think Buck hit poorly in Sac because he was pissy, not because he couldn’t rake AAA pitching…
i believe buck can be a successful major leaguer, but if his response to being demoted is really to suck rather than to destroy AAA pitching and force the a’s to call him up or trade him, maybe it’s time for me to get off that bandwagon.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
wasn't buck changing his stance in AAA last year?
i thought that had a lot to do with his hitting mediocre there. i think he has been mishandled by the organization, but he’s also not been right physically since his rookie year. that being said, if buck is finally healthy and comfortable with his new stance, as long as he produces, he should get playing time. if not, it will be unequivocally clear that management has totally screwed him. i don’t like the gross signing, mostly because i want us to give buck and patterson a shot, but we had money to spend, and its not like we gave him a huge deal. and honestly, you can’t really count on buck or patterson. finally, if either/both produce better than gross in ST, they should play over gross. if they don’t, which is a reasonable guess, then we have a decent 4th OFer in gross, who we didn’t pay a ton for.
by guy incognito on Feb 3, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
Just for nitpicking's sake...
… I think it was his leg lift/timing mechanism he was messing with. The only guy I’ve seen consistently change his timing mechanism and still succeed was Chavvy before his body betrayed him.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
It was the bat-waggle, too, IIRC.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
He was trying to get rid of the bat wiggle.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I say let him rot in Sac, not KC.
If he wants to flush his career down the toilet that’s his call
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
Not that
The point being is I am tired of watching the A’s managers jerk players around. Davis is a example of that. He should have been playing more than he was the last 2 years. Geren brings up a player then sits he after 1 or 2 games and not get into the lineup for 10 days.
wow Davis? really?
he started 2009 with like a sub .100 BA before getting released from a horrible Giants offense. In serious playing time last year he outperformed by far anything he’s done in the minor leagues. Sure, he’s earned a chance to start and prove he can still hit like he did last year, but if he sucked, very few people would be surprised.
Before getting serious playing time and thriving last year, he was a serious DFA candidate. Yes I’m happy for him, and yes he’s a fun player to watch, but if anybody has ever been a flash in the pan candidate, its him
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
Why would they call a guy like Davis up only to have him be on the bench?
Oh. Right. They didn’t call him up. They took his contract after like 20 other teams decided they didn’t want any part of him.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
This is complete nonsense.
You make it sound like if Buck doesn’t play everyday in the bigs that he won’t be playing anything at all.
He still has much to prove in AAA… where he CAN play everyday.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
The only thing he has left to prove in the minors or majors
is that he can suck it up and get the job done every day, even if he’s not at 100% or if he’s fighting with the manager…
when the universe pisses down his back and tells him it’s rain, he needs to WEAR IT, not bitch about it!
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 3, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Is it really made from pee?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
only at a poker table
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 4, 2010 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
...
Maybe Barton doesn’t complain and want to be sit to nurse a sore body. Rightly or wrongly, the way people deal with certain situations, helps mold other people’s perception of that person.
When its time to shoot, shoot... don't talk
by Charlie O the Mule on Feb 3, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
better honest
Lets not forget Street who was hurt but didn’t tell anybody and started getting racked. After he told somebody and came off the DL he started pitching much better again.
agreed
But this is where other peoples perception comes in to play… are you really hurt, or are you just being a pansy. When you come off the first game of a double header and are 3 for 4, it doesn’t look like you are hurting, yet you asked to be sat… Management of perceptions goes a long way when dealing with professional relationships (personal as well).
Buck could have played his cards better is alI am saying… he could have gone into the next game and gave it a go…
When its time to shoot, shoot... don't talk
by Charlie O the Mule on Feb 3, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
Ugh
This line of thinking really makes me angry. Why risk it? I’d much rather have a JD Drew than a Dan Meyer. Players lose their careers because they decide, “Well, if I don’t play through the pain, people will call me a pansy.”
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Didn't intend to anger you
I agree that it is better safe than sorry, but management doesn’t always see things that way. Just trying to explain what might be going through the ‘other sides’ mind.
It is fact that players are expected to play through a certain amount of pain. There is a difference between being banged up and being injured.
When its time to shoot, shoot... don't talk
by Charlie O the Mule on Feb 3, 2010 8:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If Buck is part of the future and Carson is not
Thats a very good reason to keep Buck down. We care about Buck’s arbitration clock and we don’t care about Carson. Given that Carson was playing better we could get better performance out of him and then save Buck for when we will get better performance out of him later.
Not that that is Beane’s line of thinking but its a worthwhile line of thinking. Beane has said they put together the best 25 man roster period. Buck was not good enough to be on that roster.. simple as that. Plenty of other people in AAA were playing much better.
There has been a consistent theme lately in relation to Buck
That theme is really summed up in one word: earned.
I find it hard to argue that Buck has earned a shot at being an everyday MLB player. Considering his numbers in AAA and that Ryan Sweeney is a better defender/comparable offensive player.
Oh, I'm not saying I disagree at all...
…but it seems like he was cut off early, with really little to no chance to prove anything. He had his one and done chance to do it, and he failed, so that’s it…?
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
Let's not forget his injuries and how they prevented ...
some timely opportunities for him over the last couple of years.
One of the factors I heard Beane talk about last year was the predictability of future injuries in young players with past history ailments. Somehow, Buck ’s build tends to make me think he will continue to break down in the future.
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
One of the diagnoses was shin splints
if I am not mistaken. Think of it as tendinitis between your knees and ankles. It can be nasty if not properly treated and can take a long time to heal. It would certainly affect his running but his BA significantly dropped and I think that was the A’s concern.
The BA may have dropped if his wrists were injured. Most MLB players really hold the bat lightly in their hands so that their fast twitch muscles can turn quickly on pitches thrown. If their wrists are compromised, the cocking of the wrists doesn’t occur as it should and they lose significant power.
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
Yeah, let's get down on the A's for not counting on an injury plagued player
Buck can’t stay healthy, period. Beane has clearly learned his lesson and is taking measures to make sure there’s depth on the major league roster, plain and simple.
by Sacred#24 on Feb 3, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He still has every opportunity to prove him
In the spring and in AAA. The A’s would love to call him up and make him an every day starter as soon as he shows he is ready. Why does he need to learn on the job at the major league level?
And again, why waste his service time watching him figure it out when he can figure it out more easily in AAA?
But he's never even really proven himself in AAA
He made the major league team out of AA, and did very well in a small sample size, and very very poorly over roughly the same sample size in a two year span. The most recent two years don’t suggest he’s a proven major league talent. The dude should go prove himself in AAA (something he’s yet to do).
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
You and me both...
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
I totally watched the Caribbean WS last night
And watched Petit make an error that led to Mexico’s first two runs.
That’s how hungry I am for baseball!
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 3, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
I saw that too
poor guy, he gets DFA’d by his MLB team and then makes an error in a big game.
I only saw the first couple innings of the MEX v VEN game but I watched all of the Dominican R. v Puerto Rico. There were a lot of sloppy plays but some decent pitching.
Did you see Vinny Castilla was playing 3B, at the age of 42.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Yes, and I thought to myself
He’s probably a better hitter still than everyone but Cust.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 3, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
You're not enjoying this Urban penned soap opera?
Greatest villian has to be that eye-patched William Bean character. He’s dastardly…
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
SMOKEY!!!!
(Oh, sorry…I forgot this wasn’t a Lost thread)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 3, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
Your avatar of him is much more "glamorous"...LOL
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 3, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't it hurt like hell to slide with a can of dip in your back pocket?
Why can’t players just leave their Skoal in the dugout?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
thats why you slide head first
so you don’t break the viles of coke.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Not that I'm endorsing ballplayers snorting coke
but at least that’s understandable: cocaine is illegal. You can’t just leave it around in the dugout while you’re out in the field or while you’re hitting. But dip is completely legal — you won’t get in any trouble for leaving it out in plain sight. I guess someone could grab your can, but I’m pretty sure players could figure out how to avoid that.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
While suffering from a cold, pick your nose and then use those fingers to get your chaw.
by LoneStranger on Feb 3, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
I imagine it is
Happy to say I’ve never tried it myself, though I’ve been around a couple of people over the years who dipped. Also vile: coke cans that you crimp to let people know that they’re full of your tobaccoey spit.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I once rode in a car from Boulder
to the Bay and back around the southwest with a guy who dipped and used a soda bottle as a spitton.
That shite is narsty!!
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Wanna Skor?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
skoal yes!
skoal! to you and the rest of AN
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 3, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
Tried it once in high school
Tasted like dishwater
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 3, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I eat the sunflower seeds shells and all
though I usually get the shelled kind in bulk.
Awaiting the start of the 2010 season!
by One won lost won on Feb 3, 2010 11:59 PM PST up reply actions
Ugh, that's no good.
I’ve done that before, but regretted it afterward. I find that the shells make it through the body relatively intact, and are rather pointy….
As for the shelled kind, well I find half the fun the de-shelling of the seeds, so I tend to stay away from the shelled ones.
chew, man, chew!
You have to chew them before you swallow them. Even soft cooked corn kernels will come through undigested if you don’t chew them.
I enjoy shelling pistachios before eating them. I wouldn’t even consider eating pistachios with the shell (dirty, plus harder than teeth).
Awaiting the start of the 2010 season!
by One won lost won on Feb 4, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
"Shelled in Bulk: The Dana Eveland Story"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I remain agnostic on the Buck question.
I also see no reason why the “Buck was treated poorly by management” and “Buck has failed to prove anything in AAA” theories can’t both be true.
That trying-to-lose conspiracy theory is just ridiculous, though. I wonder if Urban is just being sensationalist for the sake of stirring up interest.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Feb 3, 2010 9:58 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
hmm...
He may well have been treated badly by management, but it’s also possible that he didn’t treat them well, either.
As for the “trying to lose” thing, He’s got it half right… the club is trying to win, just like always, but also, the club is trying to get their attendance numbers as low as possible while not stirring up any PR drama. That element of the “Major League” comparison seems to ring true to me.
I’m not an arguer, but my evidence is the lack of a FanFest, diminished number of promotional giveaways, less advertising, and to a certain extent, the upper deck tarp.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 3, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
marginal return
you’ve gotta spend money to make it.
This is more akin to moving Milton Waddams down into the basement and taking away his swingline stapler.
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
That the A's have consciously de-prioritized sales
of low-cost tickets is undeniable, for the reasons you cite. The team figured four years ago that the revenue from the lower end ticket sales wasn’t worth the expense of selling them. And not just with the third deck: at the same time many package and coupon deals (Fri Night Family, AAA discount) were re-calibrated away from Plaza OF to Plaza IF and Field. And they offer about 8,000 fewer $2 tix on Wednesdays now.
The A’s have decided their bottom line is better when they don’t try to sell tickets to the bottom 20% of the fan income curve. And while that answer can probably be reached in pure (revenue – expenses = < 0) terms, it’s not insane to believe the team thinks lower gross attendance helps their relocation prospects.
This year, though, the econopocalypse seems to have made selling to the low-end more palatable, what with the Value Deck and Jumbo Tix and free Tuesday parking and all. So the theory is perhaps less true in 2010 than in recent years.
Everybody's got a little light under the sun.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Feb 3, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
This about sums it up.
Rec’d
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Of course he is
Its either he wants to stir things up or he is good friends with Buck and sees him being screwed. On the other hand there could be more to the story then we know about. Look how they kept all the Bradley stuff under wrap.
Empirical Evidence
There is very little empirical evidence about players being treated poorly by Oakland management, and there are loads of evidence suggesting he has sucked more than anybody else in the system who wants to play in the OF everyday in Oakland.
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
Urban seems to have a habit of saying plausible-sounding things
and then not providing any evidence for them at all. The clubhouse stuff with Macha, the A’s personal grudge against Buck, the A’s tanking in order to get the SJ rights (which, as you point out BBG, he officially “doesn’t buy”)…
I think this is really irresponsible. That last one, in particular, would be like me saying, “This is a good time to toss out a conspiracy theory I’ve heard: Maybe the A’s don’t want to be all that good Mychael Urban doesn’t really want to report based on facts. Maybe they don’t want to draw many fans he doesn’t want fans to be better informed about the team they root for. Maybe they see it as a way to convince Bud Selig that Oakland is truly untenable and San Jose needs to be opened up Urban has decided to exaggerate rumors, stir shit up, and pretend he has sources in order to become a big name in Bay Area sports ‘journalism.’ I don’t buy it, but I see why the theory exists.”
I mean, it would be rally unfair for me to put that out there, given that I don’t believe, it, right? Good thing I wouldn’t do that.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Feb 3, 2010 9:59 AM PST reply actions 7 recs
Urban had to play nice with management too when he covered the club...
now, he doesn’t have to play nice with management so much… He can criticize more, and express his emotional opinions about club operations more freely. This is kind of unfortunate, because the more he offers his opinions, the more dumbass things he says… That doesn’t mean there aren’t nuggets of wisdom and useful news, it’s just that he self-censors his turds much less.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 3, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
nicely said
When its time to shoot, shoot... don't talk
by Charlie O the Mule on Feb 3, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
Why always this Buck drama ?
Tommy Everidge got DFA’d after hitting 1060 in AAA, Gregorio Petit never got a real chance. Poor Aaron Cunningham had to wait another year, after hitting 900 in AAA. Dana Eveland didn’t receive enough love. Daric Barton spent most of his time in the minors last year. Matt Carson hit 25 HR’s in Sacramento last year, he’s not on the team. Gabe Gross, Coco Crisp and Michael Taylor are limiting Corey Brown’s road to Oakland. Eric Patterson isn’t given an everyday job.
Suck it up Buck. Hit the ball, catch the ball, run, make plays. The upside is millions of dollars.
by OPS2000 on Feb 3, 2010 10:01 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I don't give a damn about Buck
But I’m sorry we let Everidge get away. I think that in a second shot at the Show in 2010, he will do fine. I predict he will outhit nearly every starter for the A’s this year.
by redtopcowboy on Feb 3, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
He's available again, incidentally.
Seattle DFA’d him to make room for Byrnes.
by Rancho Canseco on Feb 3, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh come on....
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
if Buck wore thick glasses and was homely as a mud fence
there would not be near the drama.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
Fair? probably not, but the culture of appearances trumps a lot of things.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
Just for the record
Travis Buck (26 years old) – AAA hitting stats
2008 (45 games)- .296/.396/.402, BB% 12.7%, K% 20.1%
2009 (62 games)- .272/.345/.418, BB% 8.6%, K% 19%
Eric Patterson (26 years old) – AAA hitting stats
2008 (25 games with the A’s)- .330/.380/.550, BB% 7.3%, K% 25.7%
2009 (110 games)- .307/.376/.494, BB% 9.8%, K% 17.4%
Aaron Cunningham (23 years old) – AAA hitting stats
2008 (20 games)- .382/.461/.645, BB% 12.4%, K% 21.1%
2009 (83 games)- .302/.372/.479, BB% 8.8%, K% 22.2%
So Cunningham/Patterson should be pissed
That they don’t get as much attention from Urban as Buck does
If Ziegler blows a save... I'll flag his next post.
Those numbers must be wrong
There is no way an A’s player plays more than 100 game in a season.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Those aren't A's players,
they’re Rivercats players.
by timed exposure on Feb 3, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Urban
He is fine – remember this is his JOB. Being controversial and stirring the pot are important, would we be discussing this at all if he wasn’t controversial?
Props, Urban. You have managed to walk the line between being as stupid as a Giants fan and scientific as an A’s fan. Both fanbases have their complaints, but we still listen to what the guy has to say.
I like his picks for breakouts too btw. Again, total un-researched gut sentiments on his part, but they aren’t bad ones. Devine can “breakout” by staying healthy, Sweeney…we know…, Cahill…definitely a possibility.
I miss Chad God
Nice writeup.
While I can’t agree with Urban that Devine will have a breakout season, because he already had one, I do think a lot of people have forgotten about him at this point. He’ll be reminding a lot of people as to why he was acquired in this first place soon enough.
I also agree on Barton. I like his stroke and he shows signs of maturation since the pool incident. Compare this to Buck. I was surprised when reading the interview with him the other day that his attitude is still the same as always. Particularly when he comes off like: “I have held my tongue in the past b…b…but help! help! I’m being repressed.” It mainly goes to show that Travis Buck’s biggest fan is Travis Buck. He seems to have one hell of a sense of entitlement.
Cahill? It all depends on his breaking stuff. I’d consider it a breakout year if he solidified himself as a #4, but I think most of his work toward this goal is going to be happening in Sactown. Ultimately, I think he’ll be waiting until next year to prove himself in Oakland, unless he gets shipped off. As much as I hate to say it the #5 slot is Gio’s to lose. I’m not a big fan of his past record as a whole and he really needs to work on his composure. On the other hand, he has shown flashes of brilliance and has a gruesome curveball.
Don't really have anything to disagree with, here
(1) The A’s don’t owe Buck anything other than what’s stipulated in his contract. I don’t think there’s a “Keep Giving Me Chances No Matter How Well Other Outfielders Are Playing” clause. Because only Jeff Francoeur gets that kind of deal.
If he produces like mad and forces his way into the starting lineup, great. If not, whatever. Outfielders, we got. (Side note: Producing like mad during Spring Training will likely be dismissed just like any other good Spring Training performance by a marginal player, right? So he’s really got no shot. He’s just going to be auditioning for a trade. My gut feeling, anyway).
(2) The Major League reference is pretty apt, actually. Duke is the beat-up vet who relies on guile and chutzpah to make up for crappy velocity. Raj Davis is Willie Mays Hays, the no-name singles hitter and base stealer. Jack Cust— duh, Pedro Cerrano. The only real difference is that it’s Eric Chavez— an infielder, not a catcher— who plays the role of the washed-up former great that was masterfully portrayed by that cagey modern day thespian, Tom Berenger.
Oh, and Kouzmanoff is the sissy 3rd baseman who’s too worried about his precious looks to get in front of a screamer down the baseline. And you can tell him I said that (please don’t tell him I said that).
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
I think the Major League reference was in regards to Wolff
Not that he watches many of the games from a luxury box wearing high heels, though.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 3, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
Although the A's might win a lot of games
if they pull a piece of clothing off the Lew Wolff lifesize cardboard cutout after every win!
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 3, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
if only someone with the know how
and equipment would make such a cut out
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
It's good to have the equipment,
but the know-how is even more important.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
<points and nods at paris7>
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
They should make a Chavez cutout,
and pull off body parts after each win.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 3, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously
though by now he’d be down to just a big toe.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Yeah, I know, I just wanted to run with it
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Chavez as Jake Taylor is PERFECT!
My very first crush…oh man, did I love that catcher. Swoon. :-)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 3, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
Who's our loveable criminal flamethrower?
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 3, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
Henry Rodriquez will get the 5th starting job
And tries glasses midway through the season
I hear John Rocker is available
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Feb 3, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
I can totally see Chris Carter sacrificing a chicken after striking during his first 10 AB's
And Mark Ellis telling him to start praying to the real Book
So in 10 years
Carter will be President AND doing insurance commercials?
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Feb 3, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The last thing Kevin Kouzmanoff should be worrying about is preserving his looks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hmmm...Chavez seems more like Dorn to me
Maybe not the Class-A A-hole, but in the body completely broken down, can’t really hit any more, highest paid, lowest performing member of the team.
With Chavez, it’s not really his fault all of that has gone down, but as long as we are making the Major League comparison…
Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.
That Urban Conspiracy Theory
I felt like I was reading something out of the Sun or some other sensationalist tabloid like the National Enquirer… Holy smokes! Beane is intentionally tanking the team to move to San Jose?
What else does Urban know that we haven’t found out about! The landing on the moon was faked? JFK was killed by a CIA conspiracy? The fluoride in our drinking water is a government plot to poison us? The Jews/Bush were behind 9/11? Wow!
You can change your job, you can change your wife, you can even change your gender, but you can never change your club.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
Fear no foe, wherever we go.
According to my periodic table
It is a halogen.
Reply fail
That was supposed to be a reply to “what is flouride, really?”
dude... it's free drugs...
in your tap water…
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 4, 2010 12:08 AM PST up reply actions
Two words that now make me feel good: Bobby Crosby
(did you think i was gonna say Jason Kendall?)
Hi ho.
Fer sure!
… sub-.240 batting average for SIX DAMN YEARS, it’s laughable…
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
My 2 cents on "conspiracy theory"
I have never subscribed to any conspiracy theories that the A’s are intentionally drawing fewer fans, or losing games, to “make a better case” for San Jose — mostly because they wouldn’t need to. Very few fans come to A’s games already; the case for moving the team is already made if they want to make it. Plus, the more fans you have in Oakland and the more popular the team is, the easier it is to build a fan base in San Jose.
That being said, Urban is correct: It’s easy to see WHY conspiracy theories would abound because the A’s entire promotional/marketing is so phenomenally and epically pathetic that it gives the appearance of actively trying to get people NOT to be A’s fans or come to or listen to games.
It’s the utter incompetence of this aspect of the A’s that makes one wonder “Is this some sort of bizarre conspiracy? Because no organization could be that incompetent at marketing its product.” Well the A’s are, but I can see where it be hard for people to accept that this is what’s going on and that the team actually wants people to participate when they sure don’t act like it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Tin Foil Hats
I once had a case with a guy who believed in that stuff. No joke. He admitted in his deposition he wore a tinfoil hat and tinfoil underwear to protect himself from cell phone signals. He even wore a tinfoil hat to his deposition, but he put a baseball hat (Giants, not A’s) over it to try to hide it from everyone.
You can change your job, you can change your wife, you can even change your gender, but you can never change your club.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
Fear no foe, wherever we go.
by johnjahafanclub on Feb 3, 2010 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
So you were pleading insanity then?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Gut Reaction
I think Buck was a steroid user. His promise, his injuries and collapse and the fact he has been treated like a problem all these things shout steroids to me.
My guess is more self-absorbed party animal
No inside knowledge here, just hunchie-wunchies.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bob "bench warmer" Geren and Billy "cup o'coffee" Beane
are the last two guys in the world who would sympathize with a guy who doesn’t give 1000 percent when given the opportunity to play MLB. Buck better start watching Rajai and understand why last year was Davis’ breakout year while Buck finished in AAA.
by Jessse on Feb 4, 2010 3:50 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Crosby isn't really a fair benchmark for Buck.
The ONLY reason he didn’t recieve the same treatment that Buck is getting now is because he was signed to a Major League contract through his arbitration years. If the team had any capable replacements in the pipeline, and was saddled with a long-term commitment to him, Crosby would have been relegated to the proverbial shit heap a lot sooner.

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