A New Look at the 25-Man; What Does Fox's Status Mean For Chavez?
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 8:00 AM PST
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PrintIf you have a few minutes, check out this article on Cassevah/Donaldson that Susan Slusser highlighted in yesterday's front page post. It's well worth the read.
In case you missed yesterday's firestorm of updates on Jake "Is He Or Isn't He Out of Options" Fox, the upshot is that despite what the general baseball media (myself included) had assumed, Fox is actually out of options. He must make the 25 man out of Spring Training, or the A's risk losing him. (On a side note, thank you Susan Slusser for the attention you paid to AN and all of our questions yesterday; you're the best!) This, of course, puts a glitch in my Chavez vs. Fox debate for the 25th man spot.
From Slusser:
Coming into spring camp, the A's had been saying that Eric Patterson is the only player on the bubble of a roster spot who is out of options, and word was that corner infielder/catcher/DH Jake Fox had a option left.
Clearly, Fox does not have the option left, but even more curious to me is that Patterson is even mentioned as a consideration. As far as I can see, there is just not room for him to make the team. The A's don't have the incentive or the emotional ties to Patterson that would win him a spot.
The same cannot be said for Eric Chavez.
Nico put it very succinctly in yesterday's game thread:
Especially if Chavez looks at Billy with those big brown eyes and says, "But I just got a first baseman’s glove and everything!"
Funny, but there's more than a grain of truth there. Chavez has been in the A's family for more than 10 years, and if he physically can take the field and swing the bat, I have a hard time believing that the A's won't find a way for him to make the team this season, even for little more than sentimental reasons.
Here was my initial roster:
A's Tentative 25-Man Roster
Pitching
1) Justin Duchscherer
2) Ben Sheets
3) Dallas Braden
4) Brett Anderson
5) Fifth Starter
6) Long Reliever
7) Brad Ziegler
8) Andrew Bailey
9) Craig Breslow
10) Jerry Blevins
11) Michael Wuertz
12) Joey Devine
Position Players
13) Kurt Suzuki: C
14) Kevin Kouzmanoff : 3B
15) Cliff Pennington: SS
16) Mark Ellis: 2B
17) Rajai Davis: OF
18) Ryan Sweeney: OF
19) Daric Barton: 1B
20) Jack Cust: OF/DH
21) Coco Crisp: OF
22) Gabe Gross: OF
23) Utility/Backup IF (Rosales, since E. Patterson can't play SS?)
24) Landon Powell: Backup C
25) Eric Chavez/Jake Fox
Aside from the fact that both Gonzalez and Cahill will likely both make the starting rotation if Duchscherer can't go, I don't think there's much room for change.
The latest on Duchscherer:
Justin Duchscherer is expected to stop by today after his nerve ablation procedure yesterday; he's still a little on the sore side, apparently, but he's only a few days behind the other starters at this point and it's believed he'll be OK to throw within the week.
Personally, I won't believe it until I see it.
Now, where do the A's fit in Jake Fox and Eric Chavez? One suggestion was to start Daric Barton in AAA (who does have an option remaining) and put Fox/Cust/Chavez on the 25 man. As Paul Thomas points out in yesterday's thread, that wouldn't necessarily be the best way to win games, but it WOULD be a way to keep all of the players on the team, at least. And at the A's usual rate of injuries, I'm sure the situation would sort itself out sooner rather than later.
The A's also need a backup catcher (no, Fox doesn't count), and a backup shortstop (no, Chavez can't play there), so I think that the backup roles are fairly locked in place. Neither Crisp nor Gross can be left off the roster; no one wants Jack Cust, Jake Fox, or Eric Chavez as the fourth outfielder.
That basically leaves Barton as the only real replacement if the team wants to keep Fox and Chavez.
For sentimental reasons, I want to see Chavy play. He's been a favorite for a long time, and I hate that his career was cut short. It would break my heart, just a little bit, to see him left off the roster. However, no matter what happens with Chavez, I think the A's have to keep Fox. But who knows? Spring Training is a long time, and I imagine all kinds of new scenarios will present themselves in March. But what else have we to talk about?
Are you cold-hearted enough to say no to Chavez and his first baseman's glove? Would you take your chances in sending Fox down? Will Chavez make it through March without incident? Over under on games played? What would Eric Patterson have to do to win a roster spot? What is Barton's year going to be like? When do we have games to recap!?
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Patterson should be the odd man out.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I thought he was with you...
figured maybe he could latch on with a club cricket team or something…
"The rich people want what the poor peoples got, and the poor people want what the rich peoples got. You can never please anybody in this world"- The Shaggs, "Philosophy Of The World," 1968
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 25, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Why do we have 12 pitchers?
That’s a bit of an overkill. That frees up another spot in the 25.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Pitchers
I think we need 12 because we have some pitchers coming off of injury. That seventh man in the bullpen should be a long reliever.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 25, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
This.
It’s pretty much the only good reason to carry a guy who is rarely used. With the A’s, they’ll probably actually need a 7th guy early on.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Feb 25, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
I think so too
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
However, if push comes to shove...
…the A’s CAN start with 11 and delay the decision, if needed.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Long men don't get consistent work.
I would hate to put a young pitcher in such a frustrating position.
If some foam peanut like DiNardo were to do it, then so be it, but if the club’s going to carry Gonzalez in the pen, I want to see him get regular work.
"The rich people want what the poor peoples got, and the poor people want what the rich peoples got. You can never please anybody in this world"- The Shaggs, "Philosophy Of The World," 1968
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 25, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
I agree...
Kilby has shown he can go 2 innings with some regularity; stretching him to 3 doesn’t seem like it would be a huge challenge.
I think an 11-man pitching staff is perfectly feasible. It just means the A’s have to be willing to shuffle some pitchers between Oakland and AAA if needed. The tough part is the first two weeks with no off-day, when starters are typically still building up their pitch count. But it’s perfectly do-able. And if the bullpen gets over-extended even with the AAA shuttle, then you can make a decision about Chavez/Fox/Barton/whoever….
by andyinfremont on Feb 25, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions
Kilby and Meloan at the back of the pen could give you 4-5 IP easy
The monster at the end of this blog.
I remember when rosters had 10 pitchers
by LowcountryJoe on Feb 25, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Is that when
you had to walk in the snow uphill to school and back both ways?
:)
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Too soon to know.
As fun as it is to speculate on things as trivial as the 25th man on the roster (and I’ve spent a ton of time myself looking my own organizational spreadsheet trying to figure it out), there’s really just no way to know what the team will end of doing at this point. This is the Oakland A’s we’re talking about — someone will get hurt. Even a single injury to a starting position player changes the entire picture, and given Patterson’s versatility, may well mean he would stay on the roster for at least the start of the season. We still have no idea what to expect from Chavez, and I still stick to my belief that he will either be playing well or will be on the DL, which would avoid the problem of trying to keep a severely limited Chavez on the roster.
Paul is absolutely right that the arrangement that keeps the most players in the organization probably doesn’t win the most games, but at some point you’ve got to look at what is more valuable — having that 12th pitcher or keeping Fox/Patterson in the organization? I’m not sure I have a good answer to that. But it’s always fun to speculate.
Ye Olde 26 Mann Rostere?
betting that somebody in the desired starting lineup will be on the DL at the start of season, so don’t force the decision right away.
by MobiusKlein on Feb 25, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
The problem with this logic is that CHAVEZ has no value to the organization
other than whatever putative value he has as a $12M mascot, which frankly I think might be more negative than positive (“hey, look everyone, our highest-paid player is totally terrible now!”).
His contract is up after this season. Putting him in the majors instead of Barton only makes sense if he is better than Barton (he isn’t) or Barton needs to be kept down for development/service time reasons (he doesn’t).
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Is he?
To be clear, I have zero confidence in Chavez’s ability to be healthy and contribute. I fully expect him to flail around for a few weeks, hurt his back, get DL’d, and then retire around midseason when he’s still not capable of doing much more than flailing around.
However, I do think that any discussion about Chavez has to at least account for the (albeit slight) possibility that the above doesn’t happen, and that he’s actually healthy. Let’s say he is, none of us know what to expect from a “healthy” Chavez. We just don’t. In his prime, he was clearly a better hitter than Barton is now. But he is most certainly not in his prime anymore. But if he is healthy, there is at least some chance that he’s a better hitter than Barton.
I think I’m probably alone in my belief that Chavez will either be a healthy contributor or a complete non-factor, I just don’t see the A’s using a roster space on an injured, part-time pinch-hitter who can only DH and possibly handle 1B.
The guy is 31 years old. He has had multiple back and shoulder surgeries the past few years.
He has barely played the past 3 years. He will be learning a new position.
There is absolutely no way that Chavez is better than Barton (24 year old who put up a .372 OBP last year) in ’10.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 25, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Absolutely?
How many of AB’s did that .372 come with?
by Colorado Fan on Feb 25, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Uh what's your point?
I’m not basing my Barton will be better than Chavez prediction on his OBP last year alone.
Better questions to ask would be: How many projection systems have Barton outperforming Chavez next year? And of those projection systems, how big is the gulf between Chavez and Barton’s performance?
The answer to the first one is “pretty much all of them”. The answer to the second one is “pretty big”. CHONE projections for example have Barton as +15 RS/150 (second best on the team I think). Chavez is at -7.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 25, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
Listen
I’m just saying that it’s not an ABSOLUTE certain that Barton will outperform Chavez this season. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if Chavez started more games for the A’s at 1B than any other player… including Barton. Will Barton even be wearing Green & Gold next season?
by Colorado Fan on Feb 26, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Well lets force the issue then
Lets hit Chavez leadoff and make him play SS. Within a week or 10 days, the situation should sort itself out.
by PL78 on Feb 25, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's nonsense to say Chavez has no value to the organization
If Chavez stays healthy, he could have quite a bit of value. The A’s project as a weak hitting team, and Chavez potentially could help with that. What are the odds of him staying healthy? I don’t know, but that’s what Spring Training is for. If he’s not healthy coming out of ST, then this discussion is pointless.
Also, rageon didn’t say that keeping Chavez should come at the expense of Barton (although that’s one option if Barton sucks in ST). Some have suggested that a 12th pitcher is of questionable value, especially since several pitchers could be shuttled between Oakland and AAA if needed. Personally, I’d prefer and extra position player on a weak offensive team than an extra pitcher, which just happens to solve this roster problem (at least to some degree), and IMO would be likely to win the A’s more games.
Of course, this assumes all the relevant players stay healthy and don’t completely suck during Spring Training. We should be so lucky to have everyone healthy and producing at a high level. We’ll see.
by andyinfremont on Feb 25, 2010 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
The A’s project as a weak hitting team, and Chavez potentially could help with that.
No.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Let's see...
There’s 2009. Oooh, 2008. 2007…
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Back surgery...
hmmm… right, right, shoulder surgery… back surgery again… um er… shoulder surgery… well then there was back…
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Don't forget his 3 year splits:
460 ABs .233/.293/.415
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 25, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
But he wasn't healthy in 2007-2009. Duh.
The premise of this entire discussion is that IF Chavez is healthy, he could have quite a bit of value and be a needed offensive boost. If he’s not healthy (like 2007-2009), then he’s on the DL, where he clearly would have no value.
If Chavez is healthy and he’s given playing time, he’ll produce at a level above most other position players on the roster.
by andyinfremont on Feb 26, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
Bigger "if"?
If I suddenly gained all the abilities of Albert Pujols, I’d produce at a level above most other position players on the roster.
I tend to agree with Paul on this one.
You say “If Chavez stays healthy…”. IF. We have no real reason to expect that to actually happen. Shoot, people kept saying that about Harden. They’re still saying it about Harden, btw.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
More important is that there's no guarantee that if he's 100% healthy he's still good at baseball
In fact, there’s some good reasons to think the opposite is true.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Feb 26, 2010 12:48 AM PST up reply actions
I think there's little evidence to suggest he won't produce if healthy
I’m not talking about Chavez at his career best, I’m just talking about “above average” on a weak hitting team like the A’s, making it well worth keeping him on the roster.
by andyinfremont on Feb 26, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Someone will get hurt this spring.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on Feb 25, 2010 9:00 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
If nobody does....
…should Beane give Jeff Gillooly a call?
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Feb 25, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
i laughed when i saw this.
it almost looks like we’re rooting for that statement to come true.
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
That's MoneyBall®!
Beane clearly saw that putting players on the DL was undervalued and set up a situation in which it would actually help the team.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Feb 26, 2010 7:40 AM PST up reply actions
I remember that when Beane swung the deal for Rosales...
one of the main items mentioned was that he had options left. He’s clearly in the A’s plans as the backup-middle infielder, but if Chavez is fully healthy (or at least healthy enough to play once or twice a week and be the emergency shortstop for a couple of innings) then I think Rosales will be the odd-man-out, especially if it’s a decision between optioning him to AAA or most likely losing Fox on waivers.
Once Chavez breaks down again or if Pennington suffers a debilitating malady, then Rosales/Tolleson are both just a phone call/bus ride away.
That would give the team a bench of:
C – Powell
IF – Chavez
IF – Fox
OF – Gross
Patterson, to me, just doesn’t have much of a chance…
There is always the possibility that the team goes with a 6-man bullpen to field a stronger bench…something like:
Bailey
Wuertz
Devine
Ziegler
Gio (long relief)
Breslow
However, as many of pointed out in other posts, a 6-man bullpen early in the year probably isn’t the wisest orientation of resources, as the team doesn’t have many off-days in April/May and Duke/Sheets and the young starters probably need a short-lease early-on.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Feb 25, 2010 9:05 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
No backup SS?
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
If Chavez is healthy enough to play a few times a week...
he can be the emergency shortstop for a few innings if Pennington gets hurt in the middle of a game. With any advance warning of injuries, Rosales can be recalled to cover short for an extended period of time.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Feb 25, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
If Chavy is healthy enough to play, he can play SS. The A’s seem to be talking about that scenario as a given. But it’s way too early in the spring for us to be worrying about this as we haven’t seen anyone play ANYTHING yet. But it’s always fun to speculate!
@worldblee on Twitter.
Chavez isn't healthy enough to play 3B nevermind SS.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
by OldhamA on Feb 25, 2010 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Chavez isn’t healthy enough to play 3B nevermind SS.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Here's to Chavez, 120 games played, 400+ at bats!
Whatever else is February for?
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
But that's a very dangerous game
it takes out 10-15 1st graders every year
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
dunno
four-square is where the body count piles up.
But most of that is from fighting over the rules.
Let the bodies hit the floor! Let the bodies hit the floor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
QOTM
awesome
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Fine
if he isn’t healthy enough problem solve but as of Feb 25 2010 there is no reason to force roster moves.
I will believe it when I see it with Chavez, but I will let it play out. I am totally fine when constructing my imaginary roster to type “Chavez 3b, 1b, ss/ Rosales 2b/1b/ss” if Chavez is healthy enough to play his “4” games a week super bully for him, bully for the A’s. If he can’t it won’t be an issue Rosales will make the 25 person roster and Chavez will hit the 15/60/permanent DL.
But for god’s sake, today is february 25, tomorrow is the 26, soon it will be march. In april, we will have an answer
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
It's February!
What else is there to talk about, but wild speculation on roster moves!?
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
February
It’s the perfect month to talk about health care, of course!
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 25, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
Thus, a discussion of the A's roster
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
How about how we can off Chavez,
change his will so the A’s inherit everything and claim the insurance money, thus freeing up $13m.
Or y’know, ‘roster moves’. Either or.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
Jayson Williams just got out of prison
Just a thought
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
I don't think Chavez can play SS
for more than maybe 1 or 2 innings. But I do think that this scenario is pretty likely, if no one gets hurt between now and Opening Day. The main result will be that Pennington doesn’t get off days. And if he gets a minor injury, the A’s will have to be quick to put him on the DL and promote Rosales.
So then Fox or Cust wouldn't ever be able to pinch hit for Pennington?
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Someone who can't move well and is injury prone
is supposed to play shortstop? I don’t think so, that is a huge reach. At this stage in his career 1b & dh maybe all he has left. I’m not even sure he makes it out of May in limited situations.
No more raining on Bruins Nation's rainy parade, they took their ball and went home.
"Patterson, to me, just doesn’t have much of a chance…"
because he sucks…
The only way Chavvy doesn’t make the team is if he is physically unable to play. Period.
I don’t see the need for Blevins in the bullpen just yet so there is another potential roster spot.
Jake Fox will be on the Opening Day roster as well, without a doubt.
Go A’s!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Does Powell have any options left?
Surely Kurt can catch every inning of the first month or so? Barton as his emergency?
I think we should just kneecap Suzuki and cut out the middle man.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
I'm next in line after the dirtbag.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 25, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
My understanding is that Powell has at least one option left
And Suzuki only has to catch the first 14 days before getting an off day. Hell, he might catch 14 in row even with Powell on the team.
I don’t think the A’s would put Powell in AAA and leave Fox (much more likely than Barton) as the backup catcher, but it’s interesting that Fox is going to catch some games in Spring Training.
by andyinfremont on Feb 25, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Fox catching
Remember that Powell is not the healthiest guy in the world, though evidently he’s gotten to the point where he’s been able to cut out some of the meds that were keeping his weight up. But remember last year when he pulled a hamstring and basically couldn’t run? They didn’t DL him (IIRC, he and Zook were the only C’s on the 40-man at the time), but he could barely move. The guy has had 2 or 3 major knee surgeries, and he’s big. I think it makes sense for them to plan on him being unavailable for a period or 2 this season, and to see whether Fox can be Plan B at backup catcher when that happens.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Ooh -- I remember when Powell pulled a hamstring and basically couldn’t run
It was right after the part of the season when he was completely healthy and basically couldn’t run!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
For the record,
Powell has two of his options remaining.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
This actually might not be a bad idea.
I don’t pretend that Fox can really be a major league catcher, but then, Suzuki plays so damn much that the A’s need a guy who won’t lose you a game behind the plate. I don’t know how terrible Fox is back there, but if he’s good enough to spell Suzuki once every 10 days, that might be a good way to go for the first couple weeks (until the first injury/Chavez’s body falls apart). It’s not as though Powell has significantly more upside than Fox or anything.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Feb 26, 2010 12:51 AM PST up reply actions
I also like this idea
Have Fox listed as the backup C and Barton can fill in in a pinch, (when Fox is already been used as DH/PH).
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
I disagree with Gio in long relief
But agree on the important point of Rosales and Chavez being able to cover a few innings if necessary.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'm all for a long man in the bullpen
But that should most definitely not be Gio, Cahill or Mazzaro. The two that don’t make the majors need to be starting in Sac.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
+++
on all of the above. I also know that Barton is definitely an option for emergency backup duty as catcher. Anybody want to parlay on who the fifth starter is going to be?
My Pick: Gio Gonzalez
$5.00 says it’s happening! Any takers?
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Another option would be a trade.
Trading Jack Cust, Rajai Davis, or Fox himself would solve the problem. Of course, there’s no way to know whether or not these are good options without knowing what any of them would yield in return.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Chavez for Lincecum
Similar salaries, should be a wash, right. Though, do the A’s really need another starting pitcher? Maybe best not
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
by bobnothing on Feb 25, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Seriously...that was funny
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
No, but he'd consider it.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Chavvy is a proven veteran after all.
(Just don’t mention what he’s proven lately…)
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Feb 26, 2010 7:42 AM PST up reply actions
Unless the rule has changed, the A's can't trade Cust till June 1
Since he was signed as a free agent.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Feb 25, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Needs to be a day later.
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 25, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks.
I wasn’t sure if it applied in Cust’s case, since he lacks the service time to be a free agent generally. But now that I think about it, the act of non-tendering him did make him a free agent technically.
That has me thinking, though—at the end of this year, is Cust a free agent, or is he merely arbitration eligible?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Yep. Unless it was specifically written into his contract that he'd be a FA
Like it is with a lot of the Japanese players who sign contracts.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Feb 26, 2010 12:58 AM PST up reply actions
tee times
“but IF Chavez is fully healthy (or at least healthy enough to play once or twice a week and be the emergency shortstop for a couple of innings) then I think Rosales will be the odd-man-out, especially if it’s a decision between optioning him to AAA or most likely losing Fox on waivers.
ONCE Chavez breaks down again or if Pennington suffers a debilitating malady, then Rosales/Tolleson are both just a phone call/bus ride away.
funny the IF he’s healthy and ONCE he breaks down
it’s hard to put down the family pet, it really is, I loved that damn German Shepherd (RIP Maxie) but Chavey should be making tee times with Mulder…
PUT HIM DOWN… (so to speak) IF he demonstrates he is healthy in Spring Training… how long will that last?
If you want to keep him sentimentally and give him THAT opportunity… let go of Cust
6+4+3=2
'If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base."
Dave Barry
Fox must stay
They just need his hitting and can’t afford to risk losing him (and they would). And I agree that Rosales is the likely candidate to go to AAA since he has options and could be recalled in the event of an injury. That is assuming that Chavez stays healthy, and I think they will keep him on the roster unless/until he demonstrates that he can’t cut it.
Another question is Cassevah. As a Rule 5 player, I can’t see the A’s letting him go, especially back to the Angels, since he appears to have some talent. Wouldn’t surprise me to see either Gio or Cahill start in AAA, the other to get the 5th spot, and Cassevah stay in the pen.
Totally agree
Fox must stay. They just need his hitting and can’t afford to risk losing him (and they would).
I think that’s true, and he will; he has to. Rosales is an interesting choice; I’m just not sure Chavez can back up at SS, but if we’re only talking one game…sure, why not?
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
not even one game
Chavez would only play SS if Pennington goes down mid-game. Rosales would be up by the next day.
That would involve DLing Pennington immediately, rather than keeping him on the active roster for a week while he heals...
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
...which might be a good thing.
There’s alot of hindsight involved, of course, but I hated seeing so much time wasted with a short roster which ended up costing the team.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Amen to that
last year was a nightmare in that respect
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
Except in Buck's case...
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Can you say extenuating circumstances
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
I actually like this plan
I would go with this if push came to shove, rather than sending Barton down.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
What about days off for Cliff though?
He can’t play every single day and if Chavy is only for a mid-game emergency, who the heck plays SS when Cliff gets a day off?
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Feb 25, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
That's the problem right there.
Can’t seem to find a replacement SS.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
Chavy
Let’s hope he can play a full game at SS once every 2 weeks or so. Either that or he or someone will be on the DL, or not play well enough, enabling Rosales to come up.
I dont think Chavy can be your SS option....
And Penny will need time off..Chavez has been injured with back issues, you cant ask him to switch positions to one that takes more athleticism. Cmon, you really see him taking DP play balls with guys sliding into him and throwing to first. I think Chavy as the guy who plays there once a week or once every 2 weeks is an idea that would blow up fast.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Feb 25, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
I've been meaning to ask about this "time off" thing.
Why does a shortstop, firstbaseman, outfielder, etc., need “time of”? How grueling is it really to play a baseball game? Pitchers and catchers excluded, of course. But why can’t the rest of ’em play 162?
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
I don't think it's about the game itself so much
But the BP, fielding practice, weight training, etc (everything not on the field but still baseball-related) I think are what get guys injured. Then they do this for about 7 months out of the year, weekends included, only compounds things. Adding to it, sometimes someone does something really bad (hamstring, back, forearm) and those injuries linger, which leads to more injuries in trying to compensate.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 25, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
How gruelling can it be to sit at a desk for 8 hours?
People need breaks. They’re not machines.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
by OldhamA on Feb 25, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I like this answer, a lot. Cuppingmaster's too.
After I posted, I thought about the travel, and how much I sleep after a few days away.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
I would think the constant travelling...
…takes more of a toll than we realize.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
he's young
he doesn’t need a day off.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Especially not during the first 14 days.
…after which he’ll gets a day off regardless. By the time we might need a true backup SS, the problem is likely to be resolved on it’s own (injury or poor performance by one or more of the players being discussed) without prematurely releasing a player .
by andyinfremont on Feb 25, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
Another option
if we’re just talking about one game, would be to slide Ellis to short, and chuck Rajai Davis at second for a few innings. That would be fun.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Fox doesn't really have to stay.
His bat is overrated by a large proportion of people on this site. SNTS I guess.
Looking deeper into his performance last year, he really wasn’t that good with the bat.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 25, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
But
Is Fox better than 90% of A’s hitters today?
by Colorado Fan on Feb 25, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
Sure
Fox had a .779 OPS last year and only Barton and Davis had a higher mark in 2009.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 25, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
Not that OPS and OPS+ are the greatest stats...
but another way to put it is that Fox’s OPS+ last year was 96, worse than Kennedy, Davis, Barton, Sweeney, Cust, Pennington, and Patterson (and Holliday, not that anyone cares).
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Fair Enough
Since Kennedy isn’t with the team anymore and I don’t think Patterson will make team, that just leaves five hitters up there. While he may not be better than 90 percent of the hitters on the team, he’d be in the upper bracket to me if you separated it that way.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 25, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I mainly mentioned that for the sake of perspective
Fox’s OPS+ was 5 points lower than Pennington’s last year. And he’s a 27-year-old slugger with pretty low defensive value.
I mean, I’d love it if he turned into a really good slugger. The A’s could use one. But the chances are against him.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Oh c'mon that's not a fair comparison.
Our hitters suck.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
He was very good last year, when you include his MLE
When you add the MLE from his awesome 45 games in AAA, he had the equivalent of a .900 OPS in 435 PA. That’s far better than he’s ever hit before, and he’s not likely to ever repeat it, but he was very good with the bat last year.
Does that really mean anything though?
Hitters who are repeating levels, and are old for their league (AAAA hitters essentially) routinely have great years in AAA and put up great MLEs. But we all know it doesn’t mean they can do the same in the majors.
For example, Tommy Everidge’s MLE last year? .308/.354/.500
But of course, Fox is better than Everidge (which isn’t saying much) which is why we’re even talking about this here.
When I said he wasn’t that good last year, I meant his performance in the majors. This article addresses some of the issues in Fox’s game.
Fox remained ultra-aggressive, chasing 37.7% of pitches thrown outside of the strike zone (25% MLB average). He also took a cut at 77.8% of in-zone offerings, compared to the 66% major league average. His 56.7% swing rate ranked in the top 10 in the majors among batters with 240+ PA. Fox walked in just 6.1% of his PA.
Chicago’s 3rd round pick in the ‘03 draft hammered heaters (+0.51 runs/100), while posting negative run values vs. curves, sliders and changeups.
So this guy basically swings at everything (even though he can only hit fastballs), doesn’t walk, and has no defensive value whatsoever. He’s Jack Cust without the walks. Jack Cust without the walks sucks.
There’s plenty of warning signs around Jake Fox. Sure he has power potential, but I don’t see him making enough contact to fulfill it. He started off hot last year, but pitchers adjusted to him and he started sucking cause he wasn’t getting any more fastballs. He is the definition of AAAA.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 25, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
If nothing else he'll be a fun cautionary tale for those
that argue about Cust’s approach.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
Yes, MLEs matter
Hitters who are repeating levels, and are old for their league (AAAA hitters essentially) routinely have great years in AAA and put up great MLEs. But we all know it doesn’t mean they can do the same in the majors.
For example, Tommy Everidge’s MLE last year? .308/.354/.500
“We all know” is the weak sibling of “some people say.”
First, neither Fox nor Everidge were really repeating their leagues. Everidge had never played AAA until 2009, and Fox had just played just 54 games in AAA before 2009.
Second, if you’re looking for older guys who hit really well while repeating AAA, I believe the names you’re searching for are Jack Cust and Nelson Cruz.
So this guy basically swings at everything (even though he can only hit fastballs), doesn’t walk, and has no defensive value whatsoever. He’s Jack Cust without the walks. Jack Cust without the walks sucks.
He also strikes out about half as often as Cust.
There’s plenty of warning signs around Jake Fox. Sure he has power potential, but I don’t see him making enough contact to fulfill it. He started off hot last year, but pitchers adjusted to him and he started sucking cause he wasn’t getting any more fastballs. He is the definition of AAAA.
This could be a quote from Dave Cameron about Jack Cust in June 2007.
Wow.
This is just an incredibly bad argument. I’m actually not even sure if this is an argument.
Second, if you’re looking for older guys who hit really well while repeating AAA, I believe the names you’re searching for are Jack Cust and Nelson Cruz.
Your point is what exactly? Custs and Cruzes are rare as hell. Here’s an interesting thing to do: Go to baseball reference’s minor league leaders page. Pick any random year and check out the leaderboards. It will be littered with old guys who had monster years but never did shit in the majors.
He also strikes out about half as often as Cust.
Again meaning what? That he’ll make more contact than Cust in the majors? Perhaps, although I have my doubts since the guy is so unselective and poor at hitting anything but a fastball. Will it make up for the fact that he walks 3 times less than Cust?
This could be a quote from Dave Cameron about Jack Cust in June 2007.
Cameron says smart and stupid things all the time. But once again, I’m still not seeing what your point is since Cust and Fox are so demonstrably different players. With Cust, back when he first started tearing the ball up, there was cause for optimism that he’ll somewhat maintain that production (and he did) because of his plate approach. With Fox, that 40% swing rate and 5% walk rate are warning signs no matter who says it. And unlike Cust, he didn’t maintain his production through his first year.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 26, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
More contact means, all else being equal,
that a player will have a higher batting average. Only a certain percentage of a player’s balls in play will fall in for hits (BABIP). Putting more balls in play will, emphasizing the all things being equal caveat, tend to cause a higher percentage of total BIP to be hits.
There’s clearly a limit to this somewhere— at some point the additional contact you’re making is so weak that it’s doing more to end your at-bats early than it is to get you on base— but Fox’s BABIP is at least not outrageously less than Cust’s.
Over a 600 AB span, if Fox strikes out 18% as compared to 30%, and has a BABIP of .300 instead of .320, he will accumulate about 13 more base hits. (It’d be 21 more if you assume Cust’s BABIP is also .300, although that’s questionable as he’s shown pretty decent skill in that area over his career as a whole.) That is, of course, dwarfed by the roughly 60 times Cust will outwalk Fox, but it is a relevant consideration.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
He's struck out 21.3% of the time in the minors. Why are we working with 18%?
Or does it not make that much of a difference? And again, Fox’s approach at the plate is so bad that it’s hard to imagine him even maintaining his minor league contact ability. From what you’re saying it seems like Fox has to manage that just to sniff at the same level as Cust. What are the chances that Fox somehow improves his approach and makes even better contact so as to be actually be on the same level as Cust?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 26, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
I'll try to simplify
MLEs are very useful. There is absolutely no reason to throw away a guy’s MLE because he’s 26. Every projection system (besides Marcel) utilizes MLEs. That’s why every projection system will have a better projection for Fox in 2010 than in 2009.
Fox should be expected to hit worse in 2010 than he did in 2009 for the same reason Kendry Morales, Ben Zobrist, Adam Kennedy, and Adam Lind are—because they hit much better in 2009 than they were expected to. Also similarly to Fox, all of those guys are projected to hit better in 2010 than they were projected to hit in 2009.
My point about Fox striking out less than Cust was not that Fox is as good or better than Cust—he’s not. Rather, my point was to disprove your assertion than Fox is Cust without the walks. Fox strikes out a lot less than Cust, and he should be projected to hit for a higher average than Cust. That doesn’t make up for all of the difference in walks, but it does make up for some of it. Your argument about swing% means very little when we have very clear evidence of his K rate.
My point about Dave Cameron is that you’re muttering the same empty platitudes about Fox that he was about Cust. There is no such thing as a “AAAA” hitter, and if there were, you certainly wouldn’t know it by the number of MLB PA Fox has. Cameron—and others—kept saying the league would adjust to Cust because he can’t hit anything but fastballs. Cust still can’t hit anything but fastballs, yet he’s a good hitter.
To summarize, my point isn’t that Fox is as good as Cust. My point is that there’s no reason for you to ignore Fox’s MLE.
Barton to AAA...
sounds like a winner. Defensively, Barton is great, but we need a bat at first. Barton simply hasn’t shown that he can be a consistent big league hitter at least not one that plays 1st. I’d rather go with a better bat and sacrifice some defense.
Sending Barton down because he "hasn't shown that he can be a consistent big league hitter"
in order to play Chavez (who’s been out for 2 and a half years and still isn’t really healthy) or Fox (who has done absolutely nothing as a major-league hitter) seems…odd to me.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
To me this sounds like a capitulation to suckiness.
Which may be in fact what is going on I don’t know? I’d rather take a chance on a rookie (Carter), Chavez, or Fox, i.e. some new blood. It’s time to give up on Barton. How many A’s hitters are we going to “hope” develops power? We already have Sweeney.
Barton does not suck
Why would you take a chance on Jake Fox, who is a) older b) a worse fielder, if we can believe the reports? At the age Barton is this year, Fox had played 55 games above A ball.
One of the main reasons Fox was putting up those good power numbers in the minors was that he wasn’t a good enough hitter to be called up to play against guys his own age. Barton, on the other hand, has always been such a good hitter that he’s been one of the youngest guys around. It’s nuts to hold that against Barton, and get all excited about Jake Fox slugging over .500 as a 25 year old in AA.
I hope Fox becomes a good hitter, but to get rid of Barton in favor of him would be really, really stupid.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Feb 25, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
At least someone needs to call out Barton and tell him to step up!
I know that maybe there is a lot of pressure on him to perform since coming over in the Haren trade. (Which I hated btw, but Brett Anderson is changing my mind?) How many chances can you get? Ok fine point to his OBP, but I think if Barton was being honest and you ask him if he had a good season last year he’d tell you “No.” How many chances can a guy get, at some point he needs to perform better? I agree that I liked him when he first came up some years ago now, he showed a lot of potential. On the other hand how long do we have to wait for him to develop into the player we all thought he could be?
17
17 is the number of chances a player gets.
No, wait. It’s 2. Definitely 2. Or 11.
Or, maybe setting an arbitrary number of “chances” for a player to get is a bad way to run a baseball team.
And I don’t know what you think is supposed to happen by someone “calling Barton out”. “Hey, Daric, you need to step it up and hit 30 HRs this year!” “Really? Okay, I never thought that was important. No problem, 30 HRs it is!”
He is who he is, which is a guy with a record as a very, very good hitter throughout the minors, playing with much older, more advanced players, and a guy who’s mixed bad slumps with excellent periods in the majors. Shy on HR power so far for a 1B, but a history of lots of doubles (including 21 in 70 AAA games last year) that may or may not indicate future HR power, and a good glove at 1B.
When the A’s clearly have a better option than him — say, Carter or, outside chance, even Fox — then they should use that better option even if Barton is playing well, unless they can put Carter/Fox/whoever in LF. If they don’t have a better option, they should play Barton even if he’s not living up to people’s expectations for him.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
That's the best summary that I've read so far.
I’d like to see some competition for the position in spring training. I just don’t see Barton as being a “shoe in.” That’s what I’ve been trying to articulate in this post.
Some thoughts
Daric Barton came over with Dan Haren and Kiko Calero in the Mark Mulder trade to the Cardinals.
Brett Anderson, Dana Eveland, Greg Smith, Chris Carter, Aaron Cunningham, and Carlos Gonzalez came over in the Dan Haren trade to Arizona.
I think you’re confusing them.
Additionally, it’s absolutely ludicrous to base on the field performance off of expectations. Alex Rodriguez, in 2006, OPSed 0.914, substantially lower than his career averages, with 35 HRs, less than he had hit in each of the preceding 7 seasons. At one point, he made five errors in one week. If I recall correctly, the media continued to speculate over why A-Rod was struggling and at least one analyst called for his removal. He himself expressed disappointment with his performance and went to sports psychologists to fix his mental problems.
Did any of that diminish the fact that he was one of the top players in baseball that year? Not in the slightest. Sky high expectations did nothing to affect a performance on the field that was marginally short of spectacular.
As for Barton performing better, he did a damned good job of performing better last year. His OBP went up, his power rose from the previous year. And he’s still only 24. If you’re looking for improvement, he’s showing it.
IF you believe that he will perform worse next year, then argue that. But to diminish his actual performance on the field is simply wrong.
by eastbayexpat on Feb 25, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
11 HRs in half a season is "absolutely nothing"?
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
"absolutely nothing" is taking it a bit too far, surprising coming from nick
but a counting stat probably isn’t the best counterargument, barton has hit just as well as fox in the majors (over more games and at a much younger age), and barton is far far far better defensively.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Yeah, I agree that "absolutely nothing" was too strong
but a .311 OBP and worse than a 3:1 K:BB ratio, as a 26-year-old in Wrigley Field is a track record with serious problems. The guy makes lots and lots and lots of outs.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
If 11 is the O/U on Fox HRs in Oakland in 2010
I’m taking the under.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Feb 26, 2010 1:02 AM PST up reply actions
Under
I don’t think he’ll get the at-bats.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 26, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
Over....I'm pulling for him to get the AB's
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 26, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
Signed, Barton's .372 OBP.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
No, it's supposed to make you think he's a good hitter.
Because based on that stat, he is a very good hitter
I think the more apt question is whether or not he can replicate a 0.372 OBP next year.
by eastbayexpat on Feb 25, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
Barton "is a very good hitter."
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that he is a very good hitter because he gets on base better than the average player. Or maybe he was in a huge slump most of the year and at the end of the year he got hot and bumped that percentage up to where it was? I don’t know. Given the utter lack of power in the outfield, shouldn’t we take a little more risk than going with Barton again knowing that we’ll get just maybe a 0.350 OBP with more at bats and maybe 12 home runs or so? Given especially when we cannot compensate for lack of power at other infield positions in favor of Barton’s good defense?
"Assume for the sake of argument"
Cute.
It is factually true that Daric Barton was an above-average hitter last season. During the time when he was playing every day, which apparently only earns you a gold star if you’re Rajai Davis and run really fast and everyone wants to think you’re a decent hitter for some reason, he was very good indeed.
Also, the notion that playing older, lower-ceiling players in lieu of Barton represents “taking risk” is ludicrous.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
"It is factually true that Daric Barton was an above-average hitter last season."
Ok…I guess I’ll take your word for it, but maybe I won’t. I guess you would characterize Barton’s .226 BA in 2008 was merely an aberration and not Bobby Crosby-esque? I’ll just assume that you watched the games. Having Barton as the opening day starter is “taking risk” it’s also incurring a liability at this point.
Not only is Barton (factually) an above-average hitter,
but he’s projected to be the second-best hitter we have. Like it or not, but it’s true. Factually.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
Let's start with me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't have as much faith as you do I'll admit.
But if it keeps you going…more power to you. When Barton comes up with the game on the line time and time again and fails I tend to have my faith start to wane.
Please provide specific examples instead of pointless statements like that.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
please god no
no “specific examples” of a batter coming up with the game on the line and failng, that’s like 2002-2005 chavy-hater territory…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Don't worry..
That’s not where I was going with the above comment. I guess you could characterize me as one who if you mean “chavy-hater” by the fact that he couldn’t hit in the clutch, then yes I’m one of those. I hated that he’d strike out in the clutch and then when the A’s went up like 10 – 0 he’d hit 3 run bombs. Yes you got me pegged.
god, you're one of those people...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Me, too!!! lol
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Pointless?? I have an opinion just like you..
Is my opinion is not valid because I’m not jumping on the Barton bandwagon? You pointed out that he has a .370 OBS end of discussion. Nope not for me. Someone else pointed out that he has a 100 OPS+, end of discussion?? Nope not for me. If it works for you fine.
No, the issue is that you're asserting that he sucks and that the A's should send him to AAA
without providing any real reason for anyone else to share that opinion. For instance, why is his OPS not enough to persuade you that he’s a better option than Fox or Chavez? And FWIW, his OPS+ last year was 108, 8 points higher than Fox’s.
Most of the rest of us are arguing based on facts, like his actual track record as a hitter, his age, and also Fox’s track record and age. You’re mostly offering subjective descriptions and rhetorical questions like “How many chances can a guy get?”, which basically amount to, “I just don’t like him.”
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Logic won't win this argument
Sure, you could tell brewitt that Barton put up an OPS of .854 last year with runners on (which is better than the .721 he did with the bases empty), but brewitt would probably cite this one time he was watching a game that Barton grounded out and because of this no matter what you say, his opinion won’t change. I say that you report the facts and then, if it’s a lost cause, move on.
I bleed green and gold!!! (my doctor is worried)
Try this for logic..
We see how they do in spring training. If we see more of the same from Barton we send him down. I’d hate to say I told you so on this, but when June comes around and he’s batting like .220. I’m an A’s fan…I hope he does better. I’m just not as optimistic based on the stats, his age or compared to the other players we have.
There is no guarantee he'll do well.
But really, his history says that odds are he will do well. He’s traditionally been younger than his competition and has, for the most part, been successful. That bodes well for his future.
Also, Spring Training definitely falls under the whole “small sample size” category. So, if he hits .200 or he hits .300 in Spring Training, I wouldn’t put too much meaning in that.
I bleed green and gold!!! (my doctor is worried)
"If we see more of the same from Barton we send him down"?
So if he has a .372 OBP but only hits 1 HR in the Cactus League, we banish him to AAA?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No, your opinion isn't valid because you're trying to argue with fact.
Dismissing factual evidence by saying it’s “not for you” isn’t the best way of winning an argument.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
So who’s winning then in your mind you. So your’e saying that we don’t need production from 1st base because we got that covered elswhere?
I'll try to do this slowly
I am saying that Barton is likely to be a more productive 1B than either Chavez or Fox or anyone else the A’s have on their roster, coming out of Spring Training.
Chavez is trying to recover from so many very serious injuries that he can’t really be counted on for anything.
Barton was a significantly better hitter than Fox last year, despite Fox’s better HR total. He’s younger than Fox. His minor league track record, given his age, is better than Fox’s. He’s a better defensive player than Fox.
So your’e saying that we don’t need production from 1st base because we got that covered elswhere?
One thing that really irritates me is people ignoring what other people are actually saying, and instead putting words in their mouths and arguing against that. If you can find a single person arguing with you here who’s saying, “We don’t need any production from 1B, we’ve got it covered,” or anything like that, please quote them. I’ve looked back over this thread, and no one has said anything even remotely like that. What we have done is point to actual evidence that Daric Barton is a good baseball player, and is better than the other potential 1Bs on the A’s roster.
You know very well that no one here is saying “we don’t need production from 1b”. Or if you don’t know that, you need to start reading what we’re actually saying to you.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Feb 25, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So then you just like Barton because he's left-handed, eh?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good can, too.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Mainly it's because Dale Long was a good hitter
and I think that having the same first name means that Barton will be good, too.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Long
While I don’t remember a Dale, I vaguely remember a Terrence.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 25, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
"What we have done is point to actual evidence that Daric Barton is a good baseball player, and is better than the other potential 1Bs on the A’s roster"
Point well taken. Maybe I have been misconstruing what you are saying by writing what I think is implied by what you are saying. I’m humble. I’ll admit if I haven’t been fair.
You say that you’ve pointed to “actual evidence that Barton is a good baseball player”
I think you’ve only pointed to actual evidence that Barton is potentially a good baseball player. If that’s the case, then more AAA time shouldn’t be a problem.
I follow what you are saying about Fox’s stats not being there and Chavez (it’s a given). Look, sometimes a change is good. Why did we have Everidge in last year playing first? It was because Barton was producing. I’d like to change things up a little. Hey, if Barton tears it up this spring it might change my mind. If I were coach I’d put the other guy in even if he is a Chavez or even if he is a Fox, notwithstanding the stats.
Just curious --
How would you feel about Barton if, in 2010, he hit .280/.370/.440 with 10 HRs and 43 doubles, and was a “very good” defensive 1Bman?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So, basically his 2009 numbers extrapolated to a full season
and not 160 at bats?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Cool. So that's basically
what he’s already proven he can do in the big leagues, with some of the singles turned into doubles. He’s 24.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
...
I think you’ve only pointed to actual evidence that Barton is potentially a good baseball player.
The stats you’ve seen in this thread are from the past. They’re things Barton has actually, already done. They don’t say anything at all about his potential, about what he’ll do in the future. They’re not projections, they’re cast-in-stone history. That history indicates that Barton has been a better hitter than Fox.
From that, yes, people are projecting that Barton will continue to be a better hitter that Fox. But the stats themselves don’t say that. The stats are just records of actual past performance.
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
If there's one group of people I'd like removed from this planet
It’s people who say “Well that’s just my opinion” when talking about fucking facts. I seriously can’t think of a more annoying thing.
“That grass is definitely pink. I mean, that’s just my opinion. We all have opinions, and mine is that the grass is pink.”
Do people not realize how damn stupid they sound when they’re arguing against facts like they’re opinions?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Feb 26, 2010 1:04 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Point taken.
But that’s just your opinion.
;-)
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Feb 26, 2010 7:46 AM PST up reply actions
"you're entitled to your own opinion...
but you’re not entitled to your own facts."
Or, better:
“Opinions are like assholes. Everyone else’s stinks.”
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
{and that's a fact}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
People who actually look at what the A's players have done as professional baseball players
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
It just sees like most of you would like to see him do well...
and that’s clouding your judgment. Groupthink maybe?
Okay, let's try a different tack
Cite specifically why you believe that Barton is a below average hitter now and why you believe he will be a below average hitter in the future.
Prove your point, instead of simply being contrary.
by eastbayexpat on Feb 25, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
I’ll admit that I like to be contrary, but that has nothing to do with this. My point is simply that I’d like to see more production in a first baseman that he has shown so far. Remember, he did have a “full” season in 2008 where his numbers by any standard were sub par. He played about 50 games last year and if I remember correctly struggled early and then came on strong again late in the year just like he did in 2007. Bill King said never fall in love with a player in September.
that OBP is for the whole goddamn year, not just september
also he was f’ing 23 last year, and 22 in his lousy 2008 season.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
the hell?
we’re talking about the roster coming out of spring training in the year 2010, are we not?
if barton hits like he did in 2008 even early this year, there are plenty of other options already on the roster, such as fox, chavy, maybe even cust or powell.
if he’s slumps later this year, chris carter will probably be ready for the big leagues by then. the a’s also have sean doolittle in AAA.
obviously the a’s don’t keep all those other guys around just in case barton isn’t producing by the year 2012.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Go look at his stats at baseball-reference.com
Honestly, if you’re offering an opinion on him and then admitting you don’t know what he’s actually done as a player, then why should we take your evaluation of him seriously?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I looked, but what is supposed to jump out at me?
3 homeruns in 54 games? If my eval is wrong then please tell me why it is wrong?
his career 100 OPS+ as a 21-23 year old
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Go click on the word "Minors"
then look at Fox. Take note of their ages, and the leagues they were in.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
That's pretty much the whole key
What brewitt seems not to understand/factor in happens to be a huge issue: Age (and Age Relative to League).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Fine...I'll admit that I'm not that much of a stat guru
I’m more of a “what have you done for me lately kind of a guy.”
isn't "performing well towards the end of the year" what barton has "done lately"?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
His last at bat he may well have grounded out.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And if he did get on base, well, he was probably stranded there. I mean, come on, guy ends the season without even scoring? What a total rotter.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
in Barton's last game
he went 2 for 3 with a walk. But both of his hits were singles, so he will clearly never develop power!
The last AB was a single. And then he got forced out at second, the lagger!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
I heard
the A’s found Barton two towns over at a pussy being contest, and Jack Cust plays like this is a bagmenton game nobody wants to win. Really the A’s should trade Cust and Barton for Mark Kotsay and split the DH ABs 50/50/50 between Fox, Chavez and Kotsay.
That's a lot of at bats.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What kind of contest? Sounds intriguing!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Bagmenton.
Oh wait, you mean the…
Stewart: "What really needs to be clear is it wouldn't have mattered if there was an earthquake or not. We were going to beat the Giants.
I'm not a stat guru, either
but you don’t need to be able to calculate a player’s wOBA in your head in order to check up on the basic shape of their track record in the minors or majors.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Word to the wise:
This is a really, really, really terrible way to evaluate baseball players no matter WHAT metric you’re using (even pure, unadulterated Mark One Eyeball scouting).
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
It is factually true that sock puppets cannot attack castles.
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 25, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree
They just never have
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
so therefore,
if we have no a priori knowledge of sock puppets attacking a castle, we can’t simply assume that sock puppets cannot attack castles, just that they haven’t been observed doing so or, as of yet, have chosen not to.
Hegel’s making more sense now.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 25, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
You can't trust a Sock Puppet
further than you can throw it with a hand up it’s bleep. That’s goes exponentially for Sock Puppet armies.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
The real question, of course
Is whether the reason sock puppets have never successfully defended castles is (1) they’re shitty soldiers or (2) they’ve never attacked one, and thus never had one to successfully defend.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
this leads to the obvious question.
Do sock puppets play Risk?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 25, 2010 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
This is just a rumor
But I hear they play it naked.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
I have never lost at Risk to a sock puppet
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Is it though?
Where’s your evidence?
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
A sock puppet could easily trash a lego castle
So there!
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Ever try prying apart lego bricks with a sock puppet?
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
Strangely, that's exactly what the Joker says in the intro sequence to Lego Batman on the Wii.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Ever try prying apart lego bricks with a sock puppet?
I always ask that of all my prey. I just like the sound of it.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 25, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
I want to have sex much less with the lego version of her.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 25, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
I just noticed that the clowny frill around her neck looks weirdly like some sort of lego udder
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think it's messed up clevage.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 25, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
get your ass to mars!
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
What kind of sock?
Just like any good army, those bastards have specialty units.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
That "underdog" syndrome is very prevalent.
When someone you expect to suck (Rajai) somehow puts up a good performance, you tend to be pleasantly surprised and retain a positive impression of that player. You attribute it to some form of scrappiness, hard work overcoming talent, mind over matter, etc.
When someone you expect to be good (Barton) sucks, you tend to be severely disappointed and retain a negative perception of that player even if they start to improve.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 25, 2010 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
Plus. High socks.
Never underestimate AN’s love for the high socks.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
by OldhamA on Feb 25, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Nice Insight
I think there is a lot of truth to that. It could also be attrition. MLB has a way of weeding players out that do not belong.
So does AN.
I kid, I kid because I love!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
LOL. Followed by: {mu-hu-ha-ha}
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Or maybe he was in a huge slump most of the year and at the end of the year he got hot and bumped that percentage up to where it was?
if he was in a “huge slump” for MOST of the year, do all those lousy at bats not count when determining barton’s OBP for the entire season?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
I'm not saying that
I’m just pointing out what I thought to be his performance. Barton’s success last season (if you can objectively call it that) was salvaged by him performing well towards the end of the year.
i still don't understand what your point is when you say that
is being in a slump early and surging late to finish with a .372 OBP overall somehow worse than being hot early and slumping late and ending up with a .372 OBP? would it be better to put up the exact same OBP every day/week/month to finish with a .372 OBP? i don’t really have an opinion (someone must have researched this but i’m not familiar with it), but i’m wondering why you do.
usually people do the opposite of what you’re doing and give players too much credit for their improved late season performance. at least i can understand why they may think that way (like the player has “finally figured it out” and established some new level of performance), but i have no idea where you’re coming from.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
So are you complaining about a lack of success
Or success at the wrong time?
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
I overlooked, yesterday, that Rosales has options left
My official vote for the Opening Day bench:
Fox
Chavez
Gross
Powell
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Who backs up Pennington, though?
That’s what I can’t seem to solve.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Cust
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
so you want to go with the "Glove" over the "Bat" then?
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
Chavez. The odds are overwhelmingly high that
before Pennington needs a rest, there will be an injury (probably to Chavez himself) that will necessitate changes in the roster anyway. Enter Rosales. I don’t see a problem with this being the Day 1 roster.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yep
And if we go with an 11-man pitching staff, we could keep Rosales or Patterson too.
by andyinfremont on Feb 25, 2010 8:06 PM PST up reply actions
YOU KNOW
I FUCKING WISH A MLB TEAM WOULD SIGN ME FOR A MILLION FUCKING DOLLARS AND THEN JUST CUT ME. THAT WOULD SOLVE A LOT OF GODDAMN PROBLEMS THAT I HAVE.
i’m drunk. fuck baseball players and their godawful salaries for plaing a fucking game.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Feb 25, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
You and me both brother
I am a very successful unemployed student
by Sir Realist on Feb 26, 2010 12:36 AM PST up reply actions
Why not cut Gross
I think the best 4 bench spots are:
Powell- we need a backup catcher
Rosales- we need a back up ss
Fox- he can play LF, RF, and Ib, 3b
Chavez- if he can stay healthy, there is no reason not to have him on the team. I also think that if he is healthy he can be productive
What’s Gross’s value? Why does our 4th outfielder have to be able to play center when our 3 starting OFers can all play center?
And Fox has more value to me than Gross, I also really dislike Gross, he is just so … well GROSS
Do we need a backup C for April?
Surely Kurt is durable enough to catch the whole first month. If Powell has options, send him down until Chavez gets hurt. Barton can be the emergency.
I think so
from April 5th to may 5th we only have 2 days off and i think suzuki needs a couple days off in that stretch. And I am not will to let Barton start a game at catcher.
I agree that Suzuki probably shouldn't be pushed that hard
But the emergency catcher would likely be Fox and not Barton. One interesting note is that the A’s have been having Fox some BP so far this spring and I think the A’s have said that they want him to get a lot of work with the catchers. I think I recall them saying that he would likely get start at least one spring game as a catcher and that the A’s really want to explore his versatility.
I don’t think that sending Powell down is the best option for keeping Fox around but I think it’s at least worth thinking about because it seems like the A’s are at least entertaining the idea that Fox could serve as a primary back-up at catcher.
Fox "was" a "catcher" earlier in his career
So he has SOME experience at it. Not saying I would trust him as a backup C at this point, he’s really a emergency C at best. Anyhow, the papers a few days ago basically said Geren hopes that Fox could become competent enough at C that they could give Powell some ABs at 1st and not be screwed if the situation arises where Powell was subbed for a pinch runner and then Kurt needs to leave the game. Or what happened that one time with the Giants.
Geren wasn’t as wordy as I am, but that was the gist of it.
I wanna see you at the dugout pre-game.
“No, Bob, just no. Barton is not going in as catcher. I won’t let you, dammit!”
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
That's a possibility
but I think I’d rather part with a backup SS (Rosales) over carrying one catcher on the roster. I know Barton can fill in for a real emergency, but catcher’s really the one position where you want a guy to take a day off once in a while. And besides, in an emergency, I’d rather have Ellis/Chavez/Cust as the emergency SS instead of Barton as the emergency catcher.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
And, by the way, by "emergency" I mean
manning the position for a couple innings, quickly followed by a phone call to Sacramento for Rosales. Nothing extended.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
WHOA
Easy there buddy, Bob Geren might not realize your sarcasm. And actually put Cust at SS
I really can’t be very close Geren without committing some kind of felony, retards just try my patience too much
Kouzmanoff
Has anyone seen a quote from him about his willingness to share playing time around? If we are expecting to find at-bats for Chavez and Fox, without dropping Barton and Cust (who are probably the two most necessary bats in the lineup), then Kouz is definitely going to miss a few games here and there. Over the last three seasons, he has started 145, 154, and 141 games, so I doubt he will be happy as a part-timer.
On a related note, I think it’s a really good idea to get Fox some innings in LF this spring. If he can play out there (and not be Jack Cust), then I would be strongly in favor of at-bats for Fox at the expense of Rajai or Coco.
The lineup against Lee or Kazmir or Saunders looks a hell of lot better with Fox in LF...
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Until Brandon Wood hits a deep flyball down the LF line.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I'm not aware that Kouzmanoff has a say in his or others' playing time
His willingness to share playing time seems irrelevant to me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
right. but he shouldn't lose too many at bats to chavy in any case, even if he's okay with it.
also support the fox in LF idea.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Fox in LF...DFA Gross, maybe?
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
although this is worthy of discussion, i think somebody will end up on the DL and the "problem" will solve itself
i definitely wouldn’t DFA anyone not named patterson if at all possible.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Well Patterson is just fucked
Him and Buck are just fucked over by the A’s the only way they see any time in the bigs, is if something really bad happens to the 5 outfielders in front of them
I see an episode of Columbo in the making.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
I mentioned this in the DLD
what about Chavez accepting an assignment in AAA for the beginning of the year to prove that he is healthy enough to play? He might not want to waste his last healthy AB’s in AAA but maybe.
Also, I would rather just drop Gabe Gross. I know Cust in the outfield isn’t pretty but with either Crisp/Davis/Sweeney covering a ton of ground in the other 2 spots it won’t be that bad. They have done that before. If an outfielder gets hurt you have Fox in an emergency and call up Travis Buck.
I guess with Sweeney and Crisp having iffy health it would be more of a problem but the A’s need all the offense they can get. I made the current roster on MVP 2005 (which only had Crisp, Gross and Chavez with major league stats. The rest of the batters were either in the minors or in college when the game was made) and the lineup only scored like 4 runs in 2 games and that was with a couple of pinch hits from JIMMIE Fox and Chavez circa 2004. On the plus side, Duke threw a complete game shutout in one of the games.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Crisp is another option for opening the season on the DL
I’m not entirely convinced Powell has to make the team either. Fox did catch last year for the Cubs and Suzuki plays everyday anyway.
But baseball! Fuck yeah! -- lynnzgal
by WaddellCanseco on Feb 25, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
Suzuki ends up like Russell Martin if we keep playing him like this
"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond
Dropping Gross IS an option
That might end up being the solution; keep Fox/Cust in the OF to spell the other 3. I just don’t see Chavez being healthy and starting in the minors. That’s not going to happen.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see Chavez being healthy and starting *anywhere*
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Chances are, though, that Chavez's injuries won't show themselves until we press him into duty 4 days a week
He’s not going to get injured spitting sunflower seeds or however he’s taking it easy during the spring. So, we kinda have to make sense of it now. My vote, personally, is for using Rosales’ option the more I think about it.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 25, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
I definitely don’t see him as a lock on the roster. The argument that Rosales is just a phone call away goes for the OF, too. If someone gets hurt or you want to pinch hit, I’d rather have Fox or Cust at a corner OF position than Chavez at SS temporarily. I think they’re also more likely to PH for Pennington than an OF.
since when is that enough?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Bobby Crosby says "Hi"
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Pennington appeared in 159 games last year between AAA and MLB
I think it’s reasonable to expect that we could get by without a backup SS, at least for the beginning of the season.
Yikes...
The thought of having Pennington play that many games this season is very uncomfortable. I know the A’s have a lot invested in the kid, but I’m not sold. To keep up with other teams, of course you need to have a great defensive shortstop but also offense has become the norm. Pennington has not, in my mind, proven that he has either.
Yeah, I'm not sure we can put that kind of expectation on Pennington
It’s gotta be a) a pitcher b) an OF
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Actually, I share your Penno-skepticism
But I don’t think that affects whether he plays every day or four days a week. Play him every day and if he can’t hack it send him down and bring up Rosales. Any way you slice it, we don’t have any all-star shortstops. Anyhow, I suggest that keeping in mind that Chavez is unlikely to stay off the dl all year.
by DDroney on Feb 25, 2010 3:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
WHY
I still cant get over how people pee their pants over a guy like JJ Hardy, when we have basically the same player in Pennington. Give Pennington his fair shot until he’s OPSing 625 in July then we can start thinking about another SS. I read on here CONSTANTLY “Im not sold on Pennington” – well, explain yourself.
well
JJ Hardy did OPS .786 and .821 in 2007 and 2008 as an above average defensive short stop.
Not saying we should have traded for him but there were definitely reasons for the drooling.
by eastbayexpat on Feb 25, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
There's no need to explain anything.
Cliff Pennington is very very unlike JJ Hardy.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Feb 25, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
how are hardy and pennington the same player?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Have you ever seen them in the same room together?
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
Yes. Hardy was on base and Pennington was in the dugout.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The explanation is that he was a pretty terrible hitter in the minor leagues
He had some seasons when he got on base pretty well, but he’s never been young for his league and his SLGs have been awful.
It’s reasonable to wonder why he spent years and years putting up a minor-league SLG of .358. I don’t know what the MLE of those seasons would be, but I know it ain’t good.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I thought he was injured quite a lot?
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
I've read that he's had a lot of nagging injuries
but if that’s the case, what are the chances that from now on he’ll be healthy enough to SLG .050 in the majors above his career minor-league SLG?. I mean, we’re talking about 5 seasons and over 2,100 PA’s in the minors. His minor-league SLG is .014 points higher than Rey Ordonez’s was.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
What?
J.J Hardy as a hitter is a power guy who doesn’t walk much. Cliff Pennington is a absolutely no power guy who can take a base every once in a while. Hardy has never put up a negative UZR. Pennington has never put up a positive one. How are these two similar?
And I’m pretty sure I’ve made my case against Pennington enough times,
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Reality may be that...
…Chavez doesn’t even make it to opening day, so it may be a moot point, but the discussion is interesting.
Personally, if push came to shove, sentiments notwithstanding, I’d cut Chavez loose if I had to. Even if it meant eating the money. This team is far enough into the “next generation” that the focus needs to be “today and the future”, not “the future only while hanging onto some of the past”.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
I don't think the A's feel they can...
…which will create this dilemma. But like you said, the chances of him being healthy in 6 weeks are slim.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
OT
Jack Cust and wife, Jennifer, welcomed second daughter Sophia Lily into family last week. Sophia joins 3 1/2-yr-old Ava Rose
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Jack will be dealing with a different sort of "three true outcomes" for the next few months.
Eating, sleeping, and pooping.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
You forgot "spitting up"
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Ah, "small ball"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
A lot can and will happen by then
Injuries, trades at mid-season, where the team is at in the standings, and who’s just not performing will all influence the moves when Carter and Taylor are ready.
Spring Training?
Isn’t that one of the main reasons they spend 6 weeks in the desert? Decisions will be decided through results and injuries.
injuries sure, but the a's don't place much stock in spring training results, for good reason
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
But they may put some stock in "spring training process,"
also for good reason.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
definitely (see, most recently, andrew bailey)
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
See, not quite as recently, Todd Linden
shit, wait.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
i'm not sure what you're saying but linden works too
linden hit well over a small sample size, the a’s were not impressed even though a few fans thought he was the real deal.
he has since played for two other major league teams who have not considered him worthy of a 25 man roster spot, and is now in japan.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Linden's process wasn't that great
He had a batting average inflated by some lucky bloop hits. (He also had a bad attitude, FWIW.)
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
i know, PT. I was being ironical.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
If Chavez is healthy, then he is automatically on the roster
I hope he comes out and has a solid spring training, and proves that he can still be a very good player. Playing him 3 out of every 5 or 6 games with him satying healthy, would be a huge success.
Entitlement much?
What has Barton done outside of september to earn starting at first. Everidge out hit him last year in the minors. Do the A’s really need a good defender at first that bats 9th. Let’s see what Barton does in st before handing him over first.
by gambler on Feb 25, 2010 12:59 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Everidge spent 5 or 6 years doing basically nothing
then hit well for 100 games (as a 26 year old) in AA and AAA, then sucked in the majors…and somehow that would make him a better guy to go with than Barton, who has about 5 years of good to excellent hitting in the minors and is younger than Everidge?
What Barton has done is to prove, over the course of his entire pro career, that he’s a talented hitter. Does that mean he can just waltz through Spring Training? No. But as of now, he’s by far the A’s best option at 1B.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I don't think it has to do with entitlement
It’s just that when you look at his whole career in context as well as the guys he’s competing with it is pretty likely that he is going to be the best baseball player in 2010 out of all the A’s options at first base. I get that everybody would like to see a true middle of the order slugger manning 1st base but the A’s just don’t have a player like that at this time.
It’s not really fair to compare Barton to the mythical “ideal” first baseman, he should be compared to the other players who are in competition for his spot. When compared to the likes of Fox, Chavez, and Carter, Barton is the best bet to be the better player in the upcoming season.
Some OT news
From Slusser (via twitter)
Lenny DiNardo to work on dropping down with Ron Romanick.
He’s gonna be a new sidearmer. Intriguing.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
"Submarine Pecs!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's the most amazing nickname I've heard in a while.
It just sounds so…badass. And goofy. At the same time!
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
Yay!
I hope it works, I hope it works, I hope it works!
As much as I call him a foam peanut, I really heart Lenny DiNardo, and I hope that the submarine thing works for him and he goes on to stick in the majors, rather than just a AAAA All-Star.
"The rich people want what the poor peoples got, and the poor people want what the rich peoples got. You can never please anybody in this world"- The Shaggs, "Philosophy Of The World," 1968
by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 25, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
i have an irrational fondness for both lenny dinardo and kirk saarloos.
dinardo 2007 and saarloos 2005 are two of the better years we’ve had recently from starting pitchers who are not very talented.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
I'd throw 2008 Eveland and Smith in there.
I’m pretty amazed we got somewhat-decent seasons from both of them.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
For me it's Saarloos and Smith.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
I use Saarloos as a video game name
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Great discussion
All stuff we’re trying to figure out here, too. Thanks for the link to the Cassevah/Donaldson piece, BBGirl! And for the nice words about yesterday. Jake Fox did get a kick out of the interest in his options status, though maybe a little bewildered that it was ever an issue.
by slusser on Feb 25, 2010 1:27 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
You do a great job
Best in the MLB IMO
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
Awww....thanks!
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
You're welcome!
I meant what I said; it’s great that you stop in…we all like hearing from you.
It’s really interesting; I can’t remember another time on the A’s when a player’s option was in question. All of us may have questions on how exactly the system works, but usually there is plenty of information shared about who has options and who is out of options. For some reason, none of us (and it likely wasn’t out there until yesterday) knew that Fox was out of options, and that’s even with us reading every A’s-related article we can get our hands on this off-season.
Spring Training will be very interesting, and I LOVE this discussion.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
i can remember being baffled by a few option situations
especially Dan Meyers’; he didn’t know and his agents didn’t, either, because of the fourth option year. Dana Eveland, I think, was one of those guys who had a fourth option because he’d come up to the bigs so early. So I usually just ask. Now, though, I might go back to poring through the media guides to check.
You guys are all great. I’m just happy people are paying such close attention to everything. That’s great for the A’s and it’s great for your local media. We need to justify our existence more all the time. :)
What I'm wondering in all this is
why did the Cubs let an entire option year get burned over a handful of days? Whether they were planning on keeping Fox or planning to deal him, it seems like it would have been WELL worth the Cubs’ while to keep Fox up for those few days in August that year.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You know, that's a really good question
and even more interesting if you think that they (on purpose?) only let him play in AAA for exactly nineteen days in July (just shy of where it would have used an option). Was there really no room for him until the rosters expanded? Why waste that option?
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
Same question goes for patterson no doubt.
I think the cubs just don’t know/care about that aspect of the game.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Wuertz too
Wasn’t there a roster crunch with him too?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Between everyone here
we read everything the local media writes; it’s our best way of getting the local news…and having it correct. :-)
After your comment on Meyer yesterday, I looked up the rules again, and as close as I can tell, he probably thought he was out of options since he’d been up and down for 3 seasons, but there’s that ‘less than 5 years experience’ rule that let the A’s send him down for one more option. (That was my guess, anyway!)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
I just read rotoworld and ESPN.
:-D
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Haha...ESPN.
I literally can’t remember reading an A’s article there…um…it’s been a while.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
GAMMONSMVPCROSBY
Well I guess that wasn’t really an article. Hmm…it has been a while, hasn’t it?
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
How bout actually laoding ESPN.com
The A’s are the LEAD story on the MLB page in a story about Sheets. HUGE picture front page.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Feb 25, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
And just like that, stupid karma
Great article on sheets on ESPN today:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2010/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=4945212
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
Great article.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
and FTR...nothing against ESPN
I just can’t remember the last time I went there. SB Nation, AN and BP are pretty much the source of my news.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Feb 25, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
I'm waiting for Slusser to drop a TWSS on somebody here
that would be funny.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Feb 25, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It would complete me.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
I just realized
it would totally work in two different ways
“That’s What She Said”
“That’s What Slusser Said”
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Not to mention
“That What She Slussed.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
or
“that’s What Susan Slussed”
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
It goes like this
“hey Guys Chavez said he was in the best shape of his life”
reply
“really”
reply
Thats what slusser said.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Mike Emeigh in the ZIPS thread on BTF last week...plus who backs up 2B?
“Everything I’ve been hearing suggests that Chavez will start somewhere if he proves that he’s remotely healthy, and that Barton is in jeopardy.” Emeigh is a dude who posts a lot on btf and clearly has MLB contacts.
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/2010_zips_projections_oakland_as/
Somebody has to back up 2B in addition to SS. Any conversation that starts without either Rosales or Patterson making the team is silly. Expecting Chvez to back up SS is crazy enough. Expecting him to make the pivot at 2B is ludicrous. Kouzmanoff has never played a professional inning at 2B. What, are they going to run Suzuki out there? I assume the A’s knew about Fox’s situation before they signed Gross also, so no cutting Gross. Barton at AAA doesn’t thrill me either, but I don’t think he would significantly outhit a Chavez/Fox platoon (could be wrong).
by AgitationStation on Feb 25, 2010 5:11 PM PST reply actions
Oddly, Fox had a very big reverse platoon differential last season, just like Barton (SSS)
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Why would Barton be in jeapordy?
It’s not like the A’s have a “major league ready” 1Bman pushing him, nor is it like Barton doesn’t profile like one of the lineup’s better hitters and easily, by far, the best defensive 1Bman in the mix.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Back-up 2B
If Ellis goes down Pennington could slide over to 2B and Chavez would play SS. Meanwhile, the call goes in to get Rosales headed to Oakland.
The monster at the end of this blog.
ah, good point
But, it’s not just if Ellis goes down; it’s his regular rest. Chavez backing up SS, especially enough to get injury prone going to be 33 Ellis proper rest…believe it when I see it.
Nico, not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but a healthy Chavez is a major league ready 1B who could potentially outhit and outfield Barton.
by AgitationStation on Feb 25, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree
Chavez could potentially outhit Barton, but I just don’t see it happening.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 25, 2010 7:06 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see him outfielding Barton either
Partly because Barton is an accomplished 1Bman and partly because learning a new position is not simple. I could see 3-1 putouts particularly being an issue.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
FTR
I wouldn’t expect it either, which is why I qualified the statement. The question is whether the A’s would be willing to give him the chance, especially with the additional leverage on the decision because of Fox’s situation.
Mike Emeigh, a bit mysterious where his info comes from, but he’s posted lots of notes like this, about various teams and players, for years, that have ended up accurate. Plus, what he said predates the Fox option story coming out.
by AgitationStation on Feb 25, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
Hmm..I'm just trying to figure out why Barton
would be out of favor at the moment.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
for starters, brewitt hates him! n/t
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Feb 26, 2010 7:52 AM PST up reply actions
Oh my God -- brewitt is actually David Frost!!!!1111
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Did Barton dive into another pool?
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
If he can't tell where the shallow end is I doubt he knows the question to
“Jonathan Harker’s journal says this title character has ‘peculiarly sharp white teeth; these protruded over the lips’”
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Chavez is here for insurance purposes only
And that’s not as a replacement player. The A’s likely have an insurance policy on Chavez’s contract. If the A’s release Chavez, they won’t get the insurance. Likewise, if Chavez retires, he won’t get paid. He’ll have to be injured. He’ll show up in spring training, get hurt, go on the 60 day DL so the A’s can collect the insurance and Chavez can collect his paycheck. There is very little chance he actually ends up on the roster. Hence the Fox acquisition.
hadn't thought of that. good comment.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Cut Gross, keep Fox.
I mean, Fox “can” play oufield ight?
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
I thought you were going for
“I mean, Foc “can” play outfield, a’ight?
He is a crafty veteran
I bet we sign to be our 4th outfielder for 750,000
by Sir Realist on Feb 26, 2010 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
That's looking WAY into the future!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Catcher??
I read somewhere that Jake Fox has also been a catcher in the past. Backup to iron man Suzuki???
From what I can tell it was in little league
I would prefer someone who has played catcher at least in AA but really AAA
Rosterbation
Sure to have another thread up once ST starts, perhaps a weekly thing, but till then, my updated 25 I see going into April.
C1 Kurt Suzuki
1B Eric Chavez
2B Mark Ellis
3B Kevin Kouzmanoff
SS Cliff Pennington
LF Coco Crisp
RF Ryan Sweeney
CF Rajai Davis
DH Jack Cust
(Crisp in left due to arm injury, move to CF when fully healthy)
C2 Landon Powell
BN Jake Fox
BN Adam Rosales
BN Gabe Gross
SP Ben Sheets
SP Justin Duchscherer
SP Brett Anderson
SP Dallas Braden
SP Gio Gonzalez
RP Andrew Bailey
RP Mike Wuertz
RP Joey Devine
RP Brad Ziegler
RP Craig Breslow
RP Jerry Blevins
RP Brad Kilby
I am tempted to have Barton on the team and send Blevins to AAA till Chavez gets hurt, and have Kilby in a mixed 6th inning/Longman role, with Kilby being sent down and replaced if he is used as a longman. Otherwise, Barton is the odd man out due to having an option left. Patterson is a goner, as far as I can tell, as he has no value on defense, and his bat hasn’t translated in the Majors. The question is if we can trade him for anything.
Disagreements
- Daric Barton should be starting at first base without a doubt.
- In the bullpen, I’d swap Jerry Blevins out for a long reliever.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 26, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
Should be, but I doubt he will.
If Chavez is healthy, he’s going to play. A lot.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Fox...
…can play OF as well as… say, Manny can. Though, that’s probably unfair; he shows more hustle than Manny ever did. He’s never embarrassed himself out there, but he’s not a long term fielding asset. If I had to find a place for ‘im, it’d be at the 1B; he doesn’t have the reflexes in my opinion for the Hot Corner.
Fox’s biggest plus is his bat, and he’d probably best serve the team as the DH.
"With Chance on first, and Evers on third,
Great things from the Cubs will soon be heard."
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