Hawking LOOGYs: A Look Into The Crystal Baullpen
by Nico on Feb 21, 2010 7:00 AM PST
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Forensic scientists are busy at work in Phoenix, examining the precise moment that pitchers and catchers officially reported to see if it was the exact same instant that Justin Duchscherer's back stiffened up. Was the countdown, on the A's team blog, in fact secretly the official countdown to "Duke's first setback" -- and most importantly, who will play Duchscherer in the Oliver Stone movie?
But that's not what I want to talk about today. The A's have not one, not two, but three lefty relievers in the mix. They are, in alphabetical order: Jerry Blevins, Craig Breslow, and Brad Kilby...Who will break camp with the big league club, and who willn't?
First things first: The A's will carry a long reliever. Ben Sheets' shoulder, Justin Duchscherer's aforementioned back, Dallas Braden's toesies, Trevor Cahill's rawness ("rawth"?), and Gio Gonzalez' propensity to be really great or really awful all suggest the A's will be more likely, not less likely, to want to have a true long reliever on call. That could be Clay Mortensen or it could be John Meloan. Whoever it is, he will leave only 6 spots for short relievers and 4 of those are slated to go to Andrew Bailey, Joey Devine, Michael Wuertz, and Brad Ziegler.
So in all likelihood, 3 lefty relievers, all of whom are adept at neutralizing left-handed hitters, will fight for 2 spots. I want to start my analysis of this battle by talking about Craig Breslow. Almost every time the A's lefty relief is discussed, Breslow is talked about like the relative shoo-in of the three. I'm not sure this is appropriate.
Breslow is certainly the most experienced of the three and he can't as easily be "stored for later" as Blevins and Kilby, who still have options. On the flip side, though, Breslow was uncoveted enough to pass through waivers last Summer until Oakland could claim him, and thus is arguably fungible enough that a pitcher like him will become available soon enough if the A's find themselves looking. He is also not much of a sunk cost, with a 2010 salary of just $422,000 compared to Blevins' $405,000 and Kilby's $400,000.
The question is: How good is Breslow, and how good is he relative to how good Blevins and Kilby are likely to be? Breslow is a bit of a puzzle. His career BAA is impressive (.209). Lefties have hit just .196 against him. Perhaps even more impressive, righties have hit just .220.
Furthermore, if you watch Breslow you hardly feel like you're seeing Eric Plunk ("nice fastball, but does he have any idea where it's going?") Breslow does not come across as terribly wild -- yet when push comes to shove he walks an awful lot of batters. For his career, Breslow has issued 67 BBs in 145 innings (a rate of 4.16/9IP). This includes walking more than a batter every other inning against righties.
Meanwhile, in 2008-09 Blevins held hitters to a .229 average but also walked just 3/9IP. Kilby's big league cup of coffee was just 17 IP, but with a deceptive delivery and good command he held batters to a .174 average while walking only 4. More importantly, both pitchers' minor league track records suggest the ability to be "not that hittable overall," to limit walks, and to manage righties well. Breslow does those things -- and then add a bunch more walks.
Have fans handed Breslow a spot prematurely? Is it really "his spot to lose," or is it actually "Blevins/Kilby's to lose" -- meaning that if they show, in spring training, that they are poised simply to continue the foundation they have laid in the minors and majors so far, perhaps the A's feel those two can do everything Breslow can do, only with more strikes?
In other words: Until a connection is found between molecular biology and the ability to cure a colleague's stiff back, you may not want to hand Breslow a spot just yet.
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Breslow is the man
What Geren did with Breslow last year was pitched him all the time and used him for more than 1 inning. In this he would need to have a terrible spring not to make the club. Geren loves relievers that can go everyday and more than a inning. The #2 lefty will come down between Kilby and Blevins which I am guessing is the one who dominates against left handed hitters and has options left. I am sure Kilby has options left but not sure about Blevins. ThankGod were not talking about Jay Marshal as our third option lefty this year when not even the mets want him now.
Bullpen
I think the bullpen will look like this:
Andrew Bailey
Michael Wuertz
Brad Ziegler
Joey Devine
Craig Breslow
Brad Kilby
John Meloan
I don’t think the fans have handed Breslow the spot prematurely. He performed very well last year as you pointed out, so I don’t see why that wouldn’t continue in spring training to the point where he would get his job as the top left-handed relief pitcher in the bullpen. He’s a good veteran presence to have for the other young left-handed reliever. The others left-handed relievers, Brad Kilby and Jerry Blevins, have their walks down compared to Breslow; however, Breslow’s big workload is probably something to look at and Kilby and Blevins haven’t pitched nearly as much as Breslow has. Plus, Breslow is really smart.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 21, 2010 9:13 AM PST reply actions
Breslow was okay last year.
His FIP was 4.39, a full run higher than his ERA (over the whole season, including his time with Minnesota). Kilby and Blevins both outperformed that FIP, albeit in Kilby’s case with a luck-aided 17 IP and in Blevins case with 22.1 IP of bad luck.
I’d probably prefer Kilby and Blevins going forward, but there’s no reason not to go into spring training with an open competition—one where Breslow isn’t gifted a head start.
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
Why would Meloan be the long reliever?
He’s always been a short reliever, even in the minors…
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
He's mostly been starter
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Meloan was a starter in his final year at Arizona.
Then made 6 starts in 16 games after he signed. Then in 2006 and 2007, he appeared in 75 games and started only 3 of them. He appeared to have a very bright future as a reliever in the Dodgers system, but then they decided to convert him into a starter; he did not perform well. He was then traded to Cleveland for Casey Blake, where he moved back to the bullpen.
So he hasn’t mostly been a starter, but he hasn’t always been a short reliever. He’s got experience with both.
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
My point is just that he can easily be stretched out to go 4-5 IP
in a way that Breslow, Kilby, Blevins, Wuertz, Devine can’t (or shouldn’t).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Breslow was put on waivers last year, as you note.
But since Oakland had one of the worst records in the AL at the time, if I recall correctly, he did not get very far down the waiver wire. I’d be very surprised if the Twins thought there was any way he would get through.
Since Blevins and Kilby have options and Breslow would almost certainly be claimed if he were waived, he certainly has to have a major leg up for a bullpen spot as it stands today.
Barring unforseen circumstances, Breslow will be on the opening day roster, and Blevins and Kilby will compete for the other spot. However, I’m betting both of them spend a lot of time in Oakland this summer.
I agree on your long reliever take. In addition to Mortensen and Meloan, I wouldn’t be shocked if “Pecs” DiNardo got the nod. A spot could be cleared on the 40 man by shifting Outman to the 60 day DL and/or sending Cassevah back.
Speaking of Cassevah, does anyone think he will stick on the 25 man roster? I’ve never understood the pick.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
Very true about waivers
Only Baltimore and Cleveland passed on Breslow before the A’s claimed him.
re: duchscherer
espn is already reporting that his SI joint is sore. the SI joint being, apparently, the joing that connects the base of the spine to the hip bones…
Try that again.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4933254&name=mlb_spring_training
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
Hey - can I again ask
that you guys cite the original report rather than compilers and aggregators? You’re doing a disservice to your local reporters by citing ESPN…..which then cites The Chronicle’s report.
Your local outlets and MLB.com are the ones spending the money and manpower to cover the team, and crediting the big boys with our work makes me increasingly frustrated as I see newspapers and other local outlets trimming coverage and reporters. There’s only one newspaper covering the Dodgers now….. part of that is that people turn elsewhere for their news, like ESPN, and newspapers are folding or they’re eliminating beat writers.
ESPN isn’t at the A’s every day. And when they and others put the Chronicle out of business, they’ll only have one or two sources to use on the team, and the overall amount of information will shrink.
So please, please, at least look at the aggregators’ stories to see who they’re crediting, and cite the orginal source. Better yet, link to the original story to really make your local reporters happy. We’re here, we’re doing the work. It’s just aggravating to not see that recognized, but ESPN credited instead.
by slusser on Feb 21, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 21 recs
I agree
even if the aggregator’s post comes up first, it doesn’t take much time to go to the original story. We really do need to support our local sportswriters, who are the ones who actually follow our team and get the stories. We’ve already lost some because of the general contraction of newspapers.
It's aggravating that ESPN exists at all
Although I’m sure they feel the same way about the A’s!
The monster at the end of this blog.
This just in:
Favre contemplating signing with the BoSox.
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Favre in Yankees Snub!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
That's because they don't think the A's exist.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
The Oakland A's:
ESPN’s Easter Bunny
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Leprechaun
We like our clothes green.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Anyone doesn't listen to Slusser,
I punch.
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
I'm in. The ol' one-two-and-a-half!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Might I suggest a visit to G_S's place afterwards
for tea and crumpets… and torture. Lots and lots of torture? G_S doesn’t even have to be home for it. We can clean up after we’re done.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
If I could rec this more than once I would
Keep doing an excellent job and thanks for stopping by!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Speaking for myself
And why not? speaking for everyone else.
We are all your fans and you get maximum props.
chronic
You guys are all great
I know AN is aware how hard your local reporters are working every day…. Just a friendly reminder that we’re scrounging up the info, not ESPN or Rotoworld (that’s the one that really gets me when people cite them for info – they don’t even get the specifics right a lot of the time).
I obviously care what you guys are talking about and reading and checking out, becaise I keep such a close eye on it…. As I’ve said before, AN is terrific at ferreting news out fast, and obviously, that’s something I can appreciate. Plus, lots of you are hilarious. So I’m a fan of AN, too. And honestly, I’m just so happy that people care about the team…. sometimes, I worry there just isn’t enough interest, and then I come here.
Oh, and a lot of you know this
but I’m also now posting fairly regularly on Twitter. I’m @susanslusser.
I’m going to do my best to update the A’s schedule every day, especially the first two weeks when the times and places will change now and then. I think you all know that this camp is based at the stadium, not the minor-league facility, but some days, the action will be at Papago rather than Phoenix Muni.
Twitter’s a really nice way to get the word out quickly about that day’s plans.
Plus
that Leopold Bloom is by far the funniest and wittiest of you all. I just felt the need to say that. No need to read the tag or sigline, just trust me signing my name here…
Sincerely,
Susan Slusser
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
{as reported by ESPN and RotoWorld}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Feb 21, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
(shh)
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
Also, he's a whore.
poor penmanship, etc.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
(thanks for remembering)
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
Apologies.
I didn’t open the link, just fixed it for the original poster of it.
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
I'm going with Breslow
He did well last year and he’s out of options, and there’s no reason to risk losing him on waivers. But with Kilby and Blevins waiting in the wings, I can see Breslow being part of a July trade if the team is not doing well by the trade deadline. It’s also possible that Gio will be the long man, but I’d much rather see him as a starter.
My fear is that the rotation will be
Sheets
Anderson
Duchscherer or Braden
Cahill
Gio
Given the setbacks we already know about with Duchscherer and Braden, I won’t be at all surprised if both Cahill and Gio are in the initial rotation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'll be surprised if Duchscherer pitches this year.
Call me a pessimist, but he can’t even fucking warm up without being hurt. That’s a bad sign.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Cue Jeff Foxworthy: "You know you're injury prone when..."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm with you on this man
I know Duke wants to get paid and therefore would like to be a starter but I am really second guessing the A’s on that move. The guy looks like is going to fall apart walking back and forth to the dugout and the recent reports are depressing at best. The fact he has to consume cortisone like I pop quaaludes just reinforces my pessimism. I’m not sure who would win a race from the bullpen between Duke, Jim Mecir or Stephen Hawking but I do know none of them should pitch more then 2 innings at a time.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
Duke is an outstanding pitcher
But I’d rather see him in the bullpen than starting. He’s an injury risk either way, but I like seeing him in shorter stints. Maybe this is because he had so much success as a reliever, or maybe because as a reliever it throws off the rest of the staff less when a) you’re not available on any given day, and b) the difference between a short stint and a long stint is like 2 innings—less impact if he seizes up while coming out of the bullpen than if he’s a starter and suddenly our long man has to pitch 5 innings without warning.
@worldblee on Twitter.
He had more success as a starter --
in that he pitched just as well, only he did it as a starter, which is far more valuable. He got injured many times while in the bullpen, too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The idea of a guy who struggles with staying healthy
being asked to get up and warm up and sit down and wait rinse repeat 5 times or more a week. Not a good idea. He’s better off as a starter where can plan ahead to work out the kinks.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
I'm actually not sold on that
That being said I have not read any pitching biomechanics that support either side but starters will have to warm up and sit down 5-9 innings a game. Coaching (Garen I know I know) can easily compensate for carefully handling fragile players especially the way today’s bullpens are utilized. What does make sense is more pitches > less pitches when talking about repetitive kinetics.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
Sorry meant
What does make sense is more pitches > less pitches when talking about injuries related to repetitive kinetics.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
I think the issue
is more amount being warm and loose when pitching. Sure repetition plays a part in it. But if you don’t know when you’re pitching, you can prep your body for the abuse it’s going to take either way. If you do know and can count on the timing of it, you have a better opportunity to get yourself set.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
that's been Duke's reasoning as well
He has made a point of saying several times that he would prefer to start because the predictability of it. I have a feeling that if he can’t start, he’d rather retire. No evidence to support this, but he’s been so adamant about starting.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 21, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
I hate to say this but I’ll believe Duchscherer in the rotation when I see it.
Last offseason I thought the A’s were overly optimistic to expect Duchscherer to be the veteran starter, and wanted to see them get another veteran starter. At least this year they have Sheets. (Also, the young’uns at least have some MLB experience now.)
And yes, I have more confidence in Sheets being healthy enough to be a factor in the rotation than I do in Duchscherer, because of their MLB histories.
At least they have Sheets
who… didn’t throw a pitch last year…
ugh.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
but looking at his career, he has had multiple productive years as a starter
he opted not to pitch last year and take care of his health issues. Certainly a risky signing, but I think (in terms of likelihood of pitching, not in terms of $$) signing Sheets was less risky than signing Duchscherer.
I think the out-of-options thing is really the key point here
and you’re kind of giving it short shrift. If you waive Breslow and then it turns out that one of Blevins/Kilby is having a horrible season, well, whoops. If you keep him and then it turns out HE’s having a horrible season, then you “waive” goodbye without a second thought.
One of the major goals in roster construction is to avoid being backed into corners where you HAVE to make a certain kind of move. That’s when your team starts losing serious value.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
This
I think the out-of-options thing is really the key point here
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
I did give it short shift.
Partly because it didn’t fit my story very well. There, I said it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
this just in...
Nico got off work early as he was on short shift at the shrift factory.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
I could use one of those short shrifts, if anybody is working OT tomorrow. Thanks.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
I always work "off topic"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I am so sick of the myth that the A's need a long reliever
Let me start by asking a question: What is more important to a team, having a back-up catcher or having a long reliever? If your answer is long reliever than I advise you to skip the rest of the comment as it’ll probably upset you. I believe having a second catcher on the roster is more valuable, which is why I can’t believe the hue and cry for a player with the skill set of a long reliever considering he’s going to get less opportunity to do his designated job (long relief) than the A’s #2 Catcher.
Let me explain.
When does a team need a long reliever? Per Geren’s own words, any time the SP can’t make it out of the 3rd inning. Are there any other situations where a long reliever becomes a need? I’d say anytime a game goes beyond the 12th inning. (Hypothetical example: SP goes 6 IP, 6 RP go 1 IP per then on to the long reliever!) In any other example you can think of (say the SP can’t make it out of the 4th inning) a long reliever could certainly be an option but the innings could also be covered by a combination of relief pitchers each going 1 inning. And if you’ve got a guy who can give you a 2 inning performance, well… it would merely be a choice to use a long reliever in that game situation instead of a necessity.
Now, Geren believes that he needs a long reliever on his roster and I thought maybe given the unsettled rosters he’s had over his tenure that he’s had cause to use a long reliever an excessive number of times. Just last year the A’s had rookie pitchers make 115 starts; surely there’s been ample opportunity to use a long reliever.
So I did some research and found that my assumption was wrong.
In 2009 when Oakland’s rotation was made up primarily of rookie SP (115 GS) the A’s had their starter fail to make it through the 3rd inning 7 times. In 2008 the A’s had their SP fail to make it through the 3rd inning 5 times. And in 2007, Geren’s first year as manager, the A’s had their SP fail to make it out of the 3rd inning 7 times. Why are we so obsessed to keep a long reliever on the roster for an event that will happen approximately a half dozen times?
But I haven’t addressed the whole issue, have I? What about extra inning games that go past the 12th inning? The A’s have had 6 of them during Geren’s tenure, including 3 in 2009.
What if I’m even more flexible with the parameters of when a team might need a long reliever? Let’s make it Holy Script that a team will use a long reliever any time a SP does not make it out of the 4th inning. How does that affect the likelihood that the A’s have a need for a long arm in the bullpen? In 2009, when the A’s let rookie pitchers make 115 starts, the SP failed to make it out of the 4th inning 10 times. In total, last season the A’s SP failed to make it through the 4th inning 17 times. Add in 3 games that went past the 12th inning and by our expanded definition of when a team needs a long reliever we can point to 20 specific instances.
There were 15 such instances in 2008 and another 14 in 2007.
So if we hem and haw and stretch the terms of when Geren is going to need a long reliever beyond even his own ideas we find 49 instances over the past 3 seasons where keeping a roster spot for a designated long reliever has been justified. Sticking to Geren’s (stricter) opinion of long relief usage we find there have been 25 games over the past 3 seasons that a long reliever was necessary.
Just by way of comparison, the A’s have someone other than Kurt Suzuki start at Catcher 55 times over the past two seasons.
So why exactly are we getting so worked up over having a long reliever?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Feb 21, 2010 11:57 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
But...
…one of the arguments for the long reliever isn’t that the team can’t get through the game, but that you have to use virtually every reliever on the roster, which then severely limits the team the next day. So that basically doubles the number of games such a situation then impacts.
That argument is bull
None of the guys we’re talking about being in the A’s bullpen have problems going back-to-back games. So even if the A’s had to use all 7 relievers for an inning each (7 IP) they’d most likely have all of them available the next day.
The monster at the end of this blog.
But then aren't you just passing the buck to the third game?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Bailey and Breslow pitched 3 straight multiple times last year
And if you’re really worried about fatigue after using your entire bullpen for two consecutive games you could always ask Beane to promote a pitcher or two from Sac to stop gap for you. That’s one of the benefits of having players on the 25 man roster that still have options remaining. Send down a tired arm for a fresh arm!
The monster at the end of this blog.
Not really
I assumed this was too obvious a point to make, so I never mentioned it. Clearly, there are some players who can pitch 2 days in a row. There are some who may be able to go 3, as well. I’m assuming that on the hypothetical day in question when every reliever is used, of which at least 2 probably pitched the day before — especially on a team like the A’s without anyone who really goes a full 9 innings. If those 2 (or so) guys pitch the next day, then they wouldn’t be available the day after the game in question. So yes, it would affect the day afterward. No, it doesn’t completely ruin the next day, as you would hypothetically have maybe 3 or 4 guys available — but it does affect it in some way.
Playing by your hypothetical...
The bullpen is short 3 RP after the SP meltdown on Wednesday (’cause those 3 also pitched on Tuesday) leaving you with 4 RP on Thursday.
Two options here. Either play with a 4 RP bullpen all looking at their 2nd consecutive day of work OR send someone down and get a fresh arm from Sacramento. There would be plenty of time for that roster move to happen, even if Thursday was a day game. Most likely there will be lefties in the bullpen, so even if one of them is too tired to pitch you’ll still have a LOOGY option is necessary. And honestly, a 4 man bullpen should be enough to get you through the day. Although I do understand a team wanting to call up an extra arm just in case.
As for your point to being “too obvious to make”… days off happen. ’Course I specifically mentioned that come the 3rd game the team might want to make a roster move to add a fresh arm, so whether you start counting the day before the SP sucking eggs or the day of… the issue was addressed.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'm not disagreeing with the overall point
but there were at least 2 or 3 games in which the bullpen just couldn’t handle the extra load created by not having someone who went long. The cascade effect of those weren’t pretty either. That being said, do we need a long man? Kind of. We need someone who can give us 3 or 4 innings including as mop up duty so that we’re not wasting arms that would be better served the next day. I don’t want our premier setup/closers pitching in a game that has no meaning just because we have to because the starter failed. That’s just all kinds of bad. I don’t care that they could go the next day (assuming they haven’t been used 3 days in a row already prior because we needed them. IF you’re going to have a long man though, he needs to be used for a few innings a week regardless of need. That’s the major failing on Geren’s bullpen use. That doesn’t mean high leverage situations (which seems to be what Geren winds up doing as overcompensation), but it does mean finding spots or a few batters here and there. IF you’re going to have a long man, being the long man simply can’t be the only function of that pitcher (Yabu anyone) otherwise it really is a wasted and pointless roster space that all your major points make it out to be.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
The benefit of having a long man is the instant gratification
You need someone to go 4 IP and there he is. Looking at the long term, you can get a fresh arm from the minors the very next day if necessary.
Keeping a roster spot open for someone who’s skills you’d only fully utilize a half dozen times is silly.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Of course you can get a fresh arm from the minors
That’s not the point.
You also have to find someone you’re willing to send down who isn’t critical for you over the next 10 days.
*You also have to assume that in the game where you *don’t have a guy to give you 3 or 4 innings isn’t in a game where the previous 4 or 5 games you’ve overworked your bullpen and sending 5 or 6 guys out there for an inning each is something you can do (or worse you have to get 8 innings out of those 5 or 6 overworked guys).
- And do you really want to waste your best 3 or 4 pitchers on a game that likely will mean nothing? Yes, they could potentially go the next day, but, correct me if I’m wrong, pitchers on the 2nd day aren’t as effective as they are on the 1st day.
If you have a 6 man bullpen, having one guy who can give you 3 or 4 innings and can come in when there’s a 5+ run lead late in the game seems more than just instant gratification, it’s a strategic need. Not just strategic for that particular game, but for the next several games. You can’t be shortsighted and only look at the blow out game, you have to look at the overall effect on the following weeks worth of games and the cascade effect of blowing up your bullpen for a worthless game.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Preview is your friend.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Your strategic need, quite simply, is a rare event
And if you have a 7 man bullpen (as the A’s tend to do) with several pitchers who can give you 2 innings a go then it is just as easy to manage the long term stress.
The monster at the end of this blog.
And you're acting like putting yourself at a competitive
disadvantage for a week is acceptable when it does happen and that the only time this pitcher would pitch is in the 2 or 3 times the starter gets knocked out. If you’re arguing the way the A’s have historically used this pitcher is absolutely worthless you are absolutely correct. I won’t argue that. They’ve done a craptastic job of it. But the way that pitcher should be used (i.e. mop up duty, bullpen filler, innings eater, long man, sacrificial lamb (see Quist, Mike)) there is a need. At least one pitcher should be able to give you 3 or 4 innings out of the bullpen even if that’s not your primary use of that arm.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
That's bullshit
A competitive disadvantage for a week? Because the A’s send down 1 guy for a fresh arm? Let me put it this way… if everyone else on the roster fails to do their job and the game is going to be decided by the new 25th guy then sure… call it a competitive disadvantage if you wish. I’d already be chalking up the loss due to the failures of the rest of the roster.
There is a difference between NEEDING a long relief pitcher and WANTING TO USE a long relief pitcher. I too could come up with a lot of scenarios where I’d WANT to use a long man, certainly more scenarios than if you simply focused on when you NEEDED a long man.
I’m not sure how the final bullpen will break down, but we know that Ziggy, Bailey, Wuertz, Kilby and Meloan have the stamina to go 2 innings a pop. And we know that at least 4 of those guys will be in Oakland on Opening Day barring something really unusual. The A’s shouldn’t be sacrificing a higher quality bullpen option for an inferior pitcher who’s principle talent is throwing 3-4 innings. That would be a true disadvantage.
And in case you’re wondering, I’ve got Gio pencilled in the rotation with Mazzaro and Cahill in Sac.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Wanting to use one isn't a bad plan
There are situations in which, even if Wuertz et al can go, maybe you give them a day off. There is no sense in making our high-quality relievers pitch when they don’t need to. Having some guys approach 90 IP only increases the likelihood of injury and/or ineffectiveness.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 21, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I remember a time when
I was disappointed any time I looked at an A’s line-up that didn’t include Lance Blankenship in it.
I’ve got nothing against wanting, but it shouldn’t come before needs.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Sending one guy down wasn't what I meant as a competitive disadvantage
Overworking your entire bullpen over a completely meaningless game where you’d be better served using your bench to finish the last 5 innings instead of all 6 guys in your bullpen DOES put you at a disadvantage. It happened last year in that Seattle game. It didn’t last a week thankfully, but we just didn’t have the arms in the pen to finish out the game. And even sending Eveland down after didn’t keep the overall effect from compromising the next game too. Without the long man we did use, we’d have been royally screwed. And you’re also assuming they’ll each last the full inning or two as well, which doesn’t necessarily happen. Hell, the guy I’d want as the long man would be the guy you send down first (especially for the cases where you don’t want to DL a guy who’s day-to-day) and could be rotated up and down with others to keep them fresh.
That being said, I wouldn’t be opposed to using the bench as a collective long man instead.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Don't misunderstand
Historical precedent proves that there will be games in 2010 that would be apt for a long man. But history also shows that those times are few and far between.
I’m arguing that it is much more important in terms of winning and in keeping the bullpen healthy to have quality arms in the bullpen; especially when so many of the options available to the A’s have the ability to pitch more than 1 inning at a time and/or go in back-to-back games. Arms that can be used in higher leveraged situations than you’d ever feel comfortable using your garbage man in.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't know --
- 5 games where the starter doesn’t get out of the 3rd inning.
- 5 games where by the end of the 6th inning the game is effectively decided and you can either use oft-worked short relievers for 3 IP or your long man can eat those innings.
- 2 games that go deep into extra innings.
- 2 games where the listed starter can’t go or there’s a double-header.
- 2 games where your bullpen is exceptionally taxed, and letting one guy pitch 3+ innings allows you to reset instead of continuing to stagger to the next off-day.
That’s 10% of a season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Double headers don't just spring up, there's advance warning
As for the rest… with a 7 man bullpen there will be 3-5 arms who see the bulk of the high leverage innings. The back end of the bullpen simply won’t see as much work as the top guys. Those last two bullpen arms (based on the current estimated make-up, Kilby and Meloan) can easily give you 4 IP in a day. And if either of those two had been ridden hard a day earlier than rest assured, some of the better bullpen options most likely had a day off. That pretty much covers your “Game over after 6” and “SP sucks” scenarios.
In the case of a SP suddenly not being able to go another SP could go in his stead. The extra innings scenario assumes that Geren used one pitcher an inning from the 9th on. So a counter to your concern here would be for Geren to think ahead a bit.
Of your 16 games listed, only 7 make a long arm critical to the team and even those can be mitigated somewhat.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Double headers popping up would be cool
I expect Tim Gunn would stop by the club house and announce it. After telling everyone that low socks looked like a school project and telling Sweeney that he has a lot of work to do.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
by Future Ed on Feb 21, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I just rec'd this
And then looked at myself in disbelief for not only getting the comment, but enjoying it.
Well...
As for the rest… with a 7 man bullpen there will be 3-5 arms who see the bulk of the high leverage innings.
This being the case, then why not have that 7th man who’s not likely to be used for much of anything else, be someone who can A) give you 3 or 4 innings at a time B) start a game if necessary so you don’t have to potentially ask 3 of 5 starters who are injury risks to pitch on short rest C) be someone you have no problem Bucking, err, sending up and down as needed when you have guys day-to-day D) someone who can be rotated in from AAA at will based on need?
If you’re arguing a 6 man bullpen, each pitcher better be immediately useful. That much I agree with. And in doing so, having one guy as designated long man is a bad idea. If you’re having a 7 man pen (which I’m sure you’re against, as am I), then having the superflurious reliever be a long guy seems prudent. More so than having him only be able to give you an inning the one time a month he’s actually used. Point being, if I pitcher is going to basically rot in the bullpen, what’s more useful?
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Some fights you just can't win
The A’s are going to go with a 7 man bullpen.
If the 6th and 7th guys have the talent (if not the experience/opportunity) to be first choice in pitching high leverage innings it doesn’t mean they can’t do it if/when given the opportunity. Bailey didn’t start out as the team’s closer last year but he earned the opportunity by pitching well as the 5th/6th arm out of the pen. Consider the names being bounced around for the long relief job this year… there’s almost no chance any of those pitchers would end up pitching in the 8th or 9th inning.
If the A’s are going to use a 7 man bullpen (and all indications are they will) then they simply won’t have the need for a long arm.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The sentence that begins with "Consider..."
is where I disagree. In a game the A’s trail 6-2 after 7 innings, I’d like to see Mortensen or DiNardo for 2 IP more than I’d like to see Ziegler, Blevins, or Breslow. Same for the last 3 innings in a game the A’s trail 6-0 after 6.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So down 4, you're conceding the game after 7 innings
First off… Kilby or Meloan can/will give you 2 IP.
As for giving up after the 6th… no thanks. You could still get 2 IP out of Kilby or Meloan and then use one more arm for the 9th. And if Geren can’t figure out hos to get 1 inning out of Breslow, Bailey, Wuertz, Devine or Ziggy without burning up his bullpen then he should be fired.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'm not conceding the game
I’m wagering that either the long man will be unusually on his game (and we’ll still probably lose) or we’ll lose worse instead of just losing. If we rally in the 7th/8th you can get a Wuertz or Devine up. No matter what you do, though, you’re very likely to lose.
Not putting in your poorer pitchers in those situations is one of the stupidest moves managers tend to make.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
grover, the issue isn't just starts where the SP can't get out of the 3rd inning
There’s also games where you’re up 6 runs and can use a mediocre pitcher for 2-3 innings instead of using two of your better short relievers just to get the end of the game. And extra inning games. And — especially in the A’s case — games where Duke’s back tightens up in the bullpen, or where Braden wakes up and can only feel 2 toes instead of all but 2, etc.
Even under the best of circumstances, teams always have stretches where the bullpen as a whole is taxed. And they have long relievers.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I love those games (when we're up by six runs), and I expect a great abundance of them this year!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
If you the argument ever becomes about 2 IP then you don't need a long reliever
The current mix of options have several guys who can give the A’s 2 IP as needed.
Yes, having a long man gives Geren the option of using him in blow-outs instead of using 2 or 3 RP. But just like having a 3rd catcher on the roster is an option, the A’s recent history shows that having a long reliever isn’t a need. Go back and look at the game logs… I’ve taken care of the last 3 years but go further back if you wish. How many times have the A’s gone up 6 runs and have their SP leave after the 5th or 6th inning? How many games can you add to the total of when Geren says he needs a long relief arm?
If Duke’s back tightens or Braden wakes up not feeling his toes than what is actually needed is a new SP. Maybe that means you bump up another SP a day early or you call up one of the guys down in Sac.
The monster at the end of this blog.
(see my comment above)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There are times every season a team's staff is taxed.
It might be b/c of rainouts leading to double headers, short appearances by starters, long stretches without days off. Sometimes a pitcher has to suck it up and eat some innings, which might result in a blowout. But if given the choice of another pitcher or a backup catcher…I’ll take the catcher every time.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
does any team really carry only one catcher?
(leaving aside when Pittsburgh had only Kendall on its 25 man roster as catcher, and that was only for a short time).
Numb toes is bad
It’s often due to nerve problems in the back. Bad – like a bulging disk impinging on a nerve.
No clue
But if the numbness was caused by nerve problems in the spine, it’s one of those things I would worry about.
It’s not always just numbness, but also loss of control of foot muscles.
no, not again. Following the rash that turned into nerve damage
he now has feeling restored to three of his five toes on his left (push-off) foot. But he still doesn’t have feeling in his third and little toes yet.
I'm getting a rash of nerves just reading about it.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
I think Braden knows which part of his body are numb and which aren't
The monster at the end of this blog.
Wife's experience
pinched nerve in spine can cause ‘referred pain’ & numbness, depending on specifics.
The "referred pain" is usually to the husband, correct?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And, unfortunately, sometimes the numbness, too.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
certainly
but the story is that Braden’s rash was caused by a guard that he wore to help keep him from dragging his left foot during his follow through. The rash was mis-diagnosed (it was evidently an allergic reaction to the material in the guard), and not really addressed until Braden ended up with nerve damage in the foot.
Foot dragging: symptom of nerve damage
I would not be surprised if that was a symptom rather than a cause.
Ditto, personal experience.
perhaps -- or maybe just a bad habit
we don’t know which. But we do know that the guard caused an allergic reaction on his foot…and then misdiagnosis ended up with nerve damage in his foot.
In any event, Braden has no history of known injury to any other part of his leg or back. He did get surgery on his shoulder some years back, and just got his nose operated on to correct a deviated septum.
Only the A's training staff
can find a guard that causes a bigger problem than the original problem the guard was for. Well, that describes the Warriors too I guess.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Problems that are exacerbated when the guards in question can't (or won't) actually guard.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Both teams also have "Ellis" ... Hmm ...
{strokes imaginary Dave Beard}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
all true
I was just operating in max-paranoia mode.
Clearance ultra-violet only.
Jane Lee says he's having the joint burned off
Duke will have the joint burned off using radiation tomorrow; if all goes well, he should be good to go following the procedure.
Always interesting to know what body parts one can do without.
Drug tests?
Don’t they check for Mary Jane?
If we’re talking about burning joints, I understand wanting one before a procedure.
what I heard
was that they are burning off the nerves in the joint.
He said there is a simple fix – involving burning the nerves (ablation) in the area – that would keep him off the field only a handful of days.
reported in the Chronicle here
maybe they could transplant those nerves into Braden's foot?
seems a shame to waste them.
by stormtown on Feb 21, 2010 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You want Braden to feel Duke's pain in the ass?
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
That made me laugh
see also – CJ Watson’s mother having the same haircut as he does
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
Mohawk Night
At Oracle Arena, C.J. Watson was shapin’ heads before tonight’s upset win over the Atlanta Hawks.
As for the game, rookie Stephen Curry had 32 points on 13-for-18 shooting with nine rebounds.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 21, 2010 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
Is this physically possible?
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Yes, but not legal in California
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I thought it was all ESPN
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
ExtraSensory Perception Network?
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
burning things with radio waves didn't make sense to me
so I looked it up on wikipedia. Turns out it is radio frequency alternating current. Radio waves have too low of energy and it would be impossible to focus them onto a small region to deposit any significant amount of energy.
Especially if it's KTRB
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I thought this was funny.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Feb 22, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Ah, that does make more sense.
Thanks.
Always the summers are slipping away.
Find me a way for making it stay.
then Fallout 3 has lied to me?!
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Don't worry, Super Mutants still exist
"To tell the truth, I'm not excited to go to Cleveland, but we have to. If I ever saw myself saying I'm excited going to Cleveland, I'd punch myself in the face, because I'm lying" - Ichiro
by Philip Christy on Feb 21, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
whew.
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Good to know
the Raiders need to sign a couple of those Super Mutants for the defensive line as they haven’t had any on the team since Lyle Alzado.
Mutant League Football?
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
strangely enough, there are Raiders in the game, too...
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
I think it may have more to do with mis-hearing something
than Twitter per se. For example, last season I heard an interview with Rajai Davis where he was asked how it was that his offensive performance improved so dramatically, once he was in the lineup every day. He answered, ’It’s just repetition." However, one writer later wrote it up (not on Twittier) as “it’s just reputation.” That’s quite a difference.
Oakland does seem to love its depth this year
Given the option year issue it makes sense to keep Breslow for the extra depth. That said, I do think Blevins and/or Kilby could be better in 2010. But given the volatility in relievers, having a bunch of them makes a lot of sense.
However, Breslow, Devine, and Wuertz are all out of options. Ziegler and Bailey aren’t going down except in cases of injury or extreme suckitude. That leaves two spots that can go to guys with options. I figure throughout the year those two spots will be rotated between Blevins, Kilby, and Meloan with a guy like Demel or Lansford getting a few innings here or there. Hernandez, Carignan, Storey, the Scottish Play, and FDLS are dark horses in order of likelihood.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
The A's currently have 11 RP on the 40 man
Bailey, Ziggy, Wuertz, Breslow and Devine are the obvious top 5 to make the bullpen. Kilby, Blevins and Meloan are the front runners for the final two spots. Cassevah is in the mix, with Rodriguez and Souza in AAA.
The monster at the end of this blog.
and by Scottish play I assume you mean Macbeth
Aahhhhh! Hot potato, orchestra stalls, Puck will make amends. pinches each others noses Owwwwww, oh, oww…
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Aahhhhh! Hot potato, orchestra stalls...
Puck will make amends. Owwwwww, oh, oww…
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Nico, I think these comics are really your drawings
Only then could they be so cool lame
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
They're not. They're the work of 8th graders
(well, 8th graders at the time).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
so, when the season starts,
were you planning on continuing this Sunday “tradition”?
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
No. It's one of the off-season features.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yay!
I mean, oh….interesting.
… and therein lies the tension between discouraging free rodent upgrades and relying on random walkup business. LB, you should tarp your kitchen. And move to San Jose. -mb
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 21, 2010 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
Mahna manah
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
well, they can draw better than me
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Feb 21, 2010 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
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