Rosenthal reporting the A's dropped out of Beltre talks this week
by JPShark on Dec 29, 2010 11:32 AM PST
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A couple interesting tid-bits from Rosenthal, including him saying the A's improved their initial offer "at least once" but this week they finally said "enough" and pulled out of talks to pursue other players. He mentions Chad Qualls, and Hideki Okajima and also says they could pursue another hitter to share time with Kouz. Huh? A platoon?? And if so, who? What other 3B options are realistically available at this point? I just don't see the options being there. Thoughts?
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I think if we were to upgrade at 3b via trade
Our targets would be:
1. David Wright
2. Ian Stewart
3. Pablo Sandoval
4. Alex Gordon
5. Gordan Beckham
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Yes
Kouz, Ziegler, Weeks for Stewart?
Enough?
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Why keep Kouzmanoff over Parker?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
Doesn't make sense to keep Kouz if we were to add stewart.
We would want to sign a utlity infielder who can play 3B in case Stewart goes down, but I could see the rockies wanting Kouz as part of the package. Tulo and Kouz would be a good left side infield, while improving their bullpen and adding a prospect.
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
and instead of having way too many leftfielders, we can package kouz and get somebody more competent in right field?
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
We have people competent for RF
Sweeney, Dejesus
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
At first glance
I thought that read Sweet Jesus
Gas to Chicago- $23.87 A's/White Sox Tix- $28 Watching the A's whipping the Sox in July 05'- Priceless
dejesus in right? i guess that's okay. hoping for something a bit better defensively.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
maybe i'm reading the fangraphs stuff wrong, he's got a negative career UZR/150 in center and right. his best position is left field.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Reading RF stats separate from LF stats is, in and of itself, reading them wrong
You’re splitting an already lamentably small sample size into even tinier chunks and then trying to draw conclusions from them.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
are you saying that playing lf and rf are fundamentally the same?
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
They're not identical, but the skills
are similar enough that it’s implausible to say a guy is a good defender at one position and bad at another.
The main skill difference between the OF positions is that CF is harder and LF is easier. Pretty much everyone has better defense in the easier positions. That’s why there’s the positional adjustment.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Exactly.
Willingham LF, Crisp CF, Dejesus RF, Sweeney backing the entire crew up is more then competent defensively.
I think, depending on the player, Kouz should be packaged with a reliever and a prospect for a starting full time 3b.
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
As a long time Royals fan and short time A's fan
I can assure you, you won’t be disappointed with DDJ’s defensive skills. He has great fielding instincts and tracks the ball well. He doesn’t have a gun for an arm, but he’s very accurate.
The Royals fan in me was sad to see him go, but the A’s fan in me is glad that he’ll be wearing green and gold. Oakland’s gonna’ love him. Trust me on that.
by CaseyRoyal on Dec 31, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for weighing in!
What would you place as odds DDJ would sign an extension to stay in Oakland beyond 2011? Any sense on that?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's hard to say, because he's spent his entire career in the KC organization, but...
he’s a very loyal player and has done a lot of community work in Kansas City.
If Oakland gives him the same love that his old city did, I could easily see him trying to stay with a personal and charismatic team like the A’s. I’d be looking to sign him to a two year extension by the end of the year, possibly even three, if his offense progresses the way that it has over the last few years.
Crap, we're screwed.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2011 5:34 AM PST up reply actions
Cool, thanks.
The notion that loyalty is important to him elevates him a lot in my eyes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
3/21
I’d really, really like to see the A’s bypass Beltre, and use the money to sign DeJesus to the above, and extend Coco for another 2/11… I think both of these players would have to take these deals, and the A’s have 0 outfielders after 2011.
by Colorado Fan on Jan 2, 2011 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
Michael Taylor and Chris Carter
Would get screwed
"The world is your oyster, but you're allergic to shellfish" -Apathy and Other Small Victories
by IChaseFrisbees on Jan 3, 2011 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
cherry pick Pedro Alzarez from Pirates
Alvarez would be a nice young stud at 3b. Maybe A’s could help Pirates rebuild with a package.
Pirates history
Pirates have a history — much like the A’s — of trading good young players for multiple prospects. Just saying a package of Taylor, Ross, Cardenas, Kouz, Donaldson — something like that — might catch their interest.
Alvarez most likely
isnt a 3rd baseman
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
How can you suggest that Sandoval would be an upgrade?
"Life is tough .... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne
If he had a down year offensively....
In trading for Sandoval, we would want to keep kouz.
Pablo would alternate between 3b, DH, and 1b (giving rest and insurance to barton and matsui)
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Even backing up Suzuki at Catcher from time to time as well...
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
me too who would want that fat ass fuck
by sports with steve on Dec 31, 2010 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that Ruth guy will never amount to anything
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2011 5:33 AM PST up reply actions
None of those represent assured upgrades over Kouzmanoff except Wright, who would cost an absurd amount of talent to acquire..
The rest of them are risks who’d probably cost too much, too (besides maybe Gordon).
I don't think the Mets would trade Wright unless we gave them our whole farm.
Wright is not going anywhere, even on a team thats is rebuilding.
That isn't that terrible an idea
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
Agree
I would take Kouz over any of those guys
"The world is your oyster, but you're allergic to shellfish" -Apathy and Other Small Victories
by IChaseFrisbees on Dec 29, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
I'm guessing
a left-handed hitting 3B to platoon with Kouz?
If the A’s sign Qualls or Okajima, they can trade Blevins/Breslow or Wuertz/Ziegler for a 3B.
Thoughts?
OK but who? I don't see any LHB 3B I'd want.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
LHB 3B
There’s some guy named Chavez who is trying to connect with a team…
Let's play two.
by Stew's Crew on Dec 29, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Chavez...Chavez....where have I heard that name before.....?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
He was the best known Latino civil rights activist, and was strongly promoted by the American labor movement eager to enroll Hispanic members
[/Wikipedia’d]
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later
by CaliforniaJag on Dec 29, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
and for some reason there is a Ceasar Chavez day observed by the UC and CSU system
Even though it’s just thrown into Spring Break and the campuses are closed
They named a park after him in Sacramento
It’s where hoboes hang out to spange off of stateworkers.
"I'm glad I could contribute suicide bombings"- MissOakland
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 30, 2010 7:58 AM PST up reply actions
you give up too much in your trades
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
The platoon rumor seems kind of weak.
I don’t really think we really have space on the roster for that even.
This conclusively proves that we're all going to die.
Custian.
by Eruch on Dec 29, 2010 11:39 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Cardinals don't feel confident in David Freese
Maybe we trade for him?
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
I'm always curious as to who this "A's source"
Is supposed to be. I remember Beane commenting that if it’s not him or Forst it’s not reliable.
Rosenthal has been pushing for the Angels to spend big for months…
by OaklandSi on Dec 29, 2010 11:49 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm starting to think this may be true
Floating stuff in the media to screw with Boras and co…
Weren’t the Yankees “out” on Teixeira at one point?
And, Robothal is a speculating machine, and its bad for ESPN/FOX if the slegnA suck next year.
I definitely agree
Maybe I’m just stubbornly sticking to my view on the Beltre situation, but until Beltre actually signs somewhere or the A’s officially spend significant money elsewhere, I will not believe any “reports” that the A’s are out of it.
by UrgentMirth on Dec 31, 2010 8:35 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm glad we're surrendering Adrian Beltre to the Angels to pursue Chad Qualls.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I am actually glad not to sign Beltre, but I don't care about Qualls
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
You're glad the A's are likely to be the worst of the three contenders on paper?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
No. I'm against that.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Then you don't have many options.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
I've accepted it though
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
I think he's glad....
The A’s aren’t going to risk 15 million dollars plus a season for the next 5/6 years for a guy in his 30’s who doesn’t want to play for the team. I think he’s glad the Angels will likely overpay a player and have to deal with more budget constraints going forward…
…I’m happy about that too!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Dec 29, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
You also risk not making the playoffs for the next few years!
Woohoo!
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Beltre will be the difference maker in the league.
I think health as well as how people perform is by far the most important thing to consider. How will the A’s health be? Will the Rangers rotation be good again? etc.
Thats true
but just because someone gets him doesn’t mean they have that much of an advantage.
The Angels had unbelievably, historically poor third base production last season.
They still managed to finish one win behind us. Giving them Beltre gives them a huge advantage.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
And they get Haren for a full season
They never had all three of their best three players on the field at the same time last year (actually, Napoli might be in that discussion, except that they hate him for some reason— anyway, they tendered Mathis, so that particular machine gun still seems pointed footwards for them) and for a large part of the year, they only had one of them.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Napoli can DH I guess.
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Dec 30, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
AFAIK they're planning to move Abreu to DH
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Then they still need a LF
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2011 5:35 AM PST up reply actions
Yep. Besides currently 3B,
LF and C are currently looking like sinkholes of suck.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
well if they let him play Napoli can solve the C or DH problem.
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Jan 1, 2011 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
But they don't.
Buuuuaaaaahahahaha.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I know, right?
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Jan 1, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
No. In the AL West, where all three teams are very close, he's pretty much the difference maker.
Because all three teams are very close, you are right that it comes down to getting lucky with health. Right now, that’s what the A’s look like, a 85 win team that’s banking on health and luck.
Beane has gambled on good health and luck for the past 5 years. The gamble has failed pretty much every single time. If that’s his plan for this year as well, then he’s either stupid, stubborn, or both.
To avoid making the same foolish mistake (or at the least, lessen the risk), the A’s need every marginal win they can get.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
What do you do if the guy simply doesn't want to sign with your team?
Are you stupid, stubborn, or both in that instance?
I love green because money be green.
offer him more money than other teams do.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 29, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
Well, since we've all been indulging in conjecture on this particular subject...
… supposing the A’s’ “improved” offer was higher than any other and Beltré still refused, what then?
I love green because money be green.
how much higher?
If the A’s ever intend to sign a desirable player, their offer absolutely should be the highest. That’s a given, because the intangibles of signing in Oakland are undesirable.
So if Beltre refuses an offer that’s only $1M more than the 2nd-best offer, then the A’s should offer more.
I don’t think you can really know that “Beltre hates Oakland” until he takes a deal that is substantially less than an Oakland offer – like, $5-10M less, or more even.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 29, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
No, I agree
I’m just saying that it cuts both ways. One end of the spectrum is “Beltré hates Oakland!” and the other end of the spectrum is “Beane is dumb/stubborn and the A’s are lowballing Beltré!”
I love green because money be green.
All of which is to say:
I don’t mind tossing around ideas about why the negotiations are going a certain way. It just seems like a lot of folks are trying to synthesize some all-encompassing scenario from very small fragments of information concerning the process. Then those synthesized scenarios get repeated so often that people start to accept them as fact.
We’re all flying more or less blind; we ultimately have no idea why the A’s apparently (at this juncture) will be unable to sign Beltré despite their indicated interest in doing so. And we will likely continue to be in the dark unless one side or the other decides to explain it to us sometime down the road.
I love green because money be green.
My point is not that Beane is stupid and/or stubborn for not signing Beltre.
If you read my original comment, you can see that I said Beane is stupid and/or stubborn if he’s continuing to gamble on good health and luck to transform a 85 win team into a 90+ win division title winning team.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
Deciding not to handcuff the team for 5 or 6 years of a ridiculous contract isn't stupid/stubborn
Boras won’t accept anything unless it’s exactly what he asked for or if the offseason is coming to a close. Stupid/stubborn is what Moreno is in that he is letting his dislike of Boras get in the way. Beane has made Beltre at least 2 offers and is playing the game just fine. And if we don’t get Beltre? Yes, we’ll have to hope on health and luck BECAUSE THAT’S ALL WE HAVE. If we get a $100 million payroll, then we can throw whatever kind of stupid contract we want at players.
Usually I make it a point to not capitalize or bold stuff I write that's clearly wrong...
But I see that not everyone follows this rule….
You should first decide what you mean by “handcuff”.
If you mean that Beltre’s contract would prevent the A’s from signing another marquee free agent, then you should know that there are very few marquee free agents available in the next 2 to 3 years that are 1) worth the money and/or 2) fit the A’s needs.
If you mean that Beltre’s contract would prevent the A’s from trading for a marquee player with a hefty salary, then you should know that the A’s don’t really have the prospects to acquire said player or can’t afford to give up the prospects that would acquire said player. Trading for a marquee talent really isn’t an option unless some very positive, drastic changes come to the farm system over the next year or two (hey! another thing to hope for good luck in!)
If you mean that Beltre’s contract would prevent the A’s from retaining Gio or Cahill, then you should know that others have already done the numbers and found that Gio and Cahill can be retained even with a Beltre contract. A Beltre contract for 15 million would push the A’s payroll into the 70-75 million range for this season.
You can make the case that wishing for health and luck was all the A’s had the previous years, with Chavez still on the books, no adequate replacement, and a collection of expensive mediocre talent (Kotsay, Kendall, Loaiza, etc). But the situation is different now…
The A’s have the budget room. They’ve built a nice, hearty, 85 win team. They need to make the playoffs. They need the marginal wins. They have an opportunity to deny a fellow contender those important marginal wins.
They should sign Beltre.
I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. The greatest risk to the A’s of the next few years isn’t the consequences of a large contract. The greatest risk to the A’s is building teams that are kinda-contenders-but-not-really. It’s wasting the years that Anderson, Gio, and Cahill are under club control for…. by not making the playoffs.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
What I mean is that you can't accuse Beane of being stupid/stubborn for not giving Beltre what he wants
What he wants if $85-90 million. We can’t assume that if the payroll goes up this year, it will stay there afterward. If we look at the $60 million payroll last year, Beltre’s $17-18 Million a year, which is almost a third of the payroll, and is a horrible practice for a team. Yes the FA pool is dry next year, but signing Beltre shouldn’t be rationalized by that.
I’m aware of other people’s financial posts, and while they are very good, there is no way to precisely predict extension costs, team needs and the resulting total payroll.
My point is that you shouldn’t be b*tching about Beane when absolutely nothing has happened for or against us with Beltre.
oh....my....god....
My point is not that Beane is stupid and/or stubborn for not signing Beltre.
If you read my original comment, you can see that I said Beane is stupid and/or stubborn if he’s continuing to gamble on good health and luck to transform a 85 win team into a 90+ win division title winning team.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
Oh shit you're right
I was going off of Joey’s comment and misread yours without the “not.” My mistake.
I read that, but your 2 points are connected, yes?
Inasmuch Beane is stupid/stubborn if he continues to gamble on good health & luck, and a good remedy is to sign Beltré.
I love green because money be green.
Huh?
Adding marginal wins does not mean the only option signing Beltre. For example, the A’s could add two wins over the fifth starter position by trading for Blanton.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
I think he's asking if you mean that if the A's don't sign Beltre
then they’ll be relying on health and luck.
No, like the example I just used (Blanton), there are other ways (though scarce) to add marginal wins.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
I like the Blanton idea more than Beltre
He’s a 2 WAR pitcher and a 2 WAR upgrade. With Beltre we’re counting on a fountain of youth for a non-superstar. That’s not a good idea usually.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:40 PM PST up reply actions
Blanton is a good backup plan.
But he will cost prospects and he doesn’t deprive the Angels of Beltre wins.
For instance, assuming that the A’s are at 85 wins, the Angels are at 83, and the Rangers are at 90…the Beltre/Blanton scenarios would look like:
A’s sign Beltre:
A’s 87, Rangers 90, Angels 83
Angels sign Beltre/A’s add Blanton:
A’s 87, Angels 86, Rangers 90
I like scenario 1 better.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
They could do both and be at 89
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think the A's could afford both...
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
In that case I'd take Blanton
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
Not if the A's eat all of Blanton's salary, me thinks.
Blanton to the A’s, eat his salry
C+ prospect plus one of (you insert the name here) to the Phils -8.5 million…?
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
The problem is that you can't assume the A's are the only team willing to do that.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
True...
but who else is willing to take on another 8.5 million in salary besides the Yanks, Texas, and the Angels?
Call me crazy, I just feel like this a deal that Billy could get done, all things going well, and get done quick if he puts his mind to it. I just don’t see Beltre coming to the A’s at this point, ad naseum…
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Mets could be a good spot for Blanton
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
Uh, I don't know about you, but those are some serious suitors you just listed.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, I know.
But I think the Yanks still are aeroing in on Pettit. The Angels rotation is pretty much set, I think. The Rangers could be the main competition were they to jump in any possible deal, and then I guess the Mets, like WC mentioned.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
spelling fail!
“Zeroing in on Pettit.”
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
He loves Gregorio
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
The funny thing is
that the Yanks, should they decide to try and convince AP to sign another 1 year deal, would more than likely have to shell out somewhere in the neighborhood of 13-15 million for his services…
Where as Blanton would cost his 8.5 plus “said prospect(s)” instead.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
I'm totally OK with trading someone like
like Krol and Hoehn for Blanton if you’re saying he’s a C+ prospect
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Well, sure, if that's all it would take.
Why not?
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Not a fan of giving up our last real starting pitching prospect.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
tinstaaspp
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Are you saying he's more than a C+
prospect? If so insert whichever name you want and I’d be OK with it.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
What is Krol rated as right now, as a prospect?
Asking out of genuine curiosity.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Sickels says B-
C+ is Taylor, Cardenas, Weeks, Sogard, Donaldson, Hoehn and Farquhar
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
Well then...
Hot damn, we’re in business!
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Maybe it wouldn't even cost Krol.
Maybe the Phils would want someone else besides a pitcher?
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Done.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:06 PM PST up reply actions
I'd say it's more like one win
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
You think Blanton's a 1 WAR pitcher or that McCarthy is?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
With all Due respect
Do not want Blanton.
He may be an innings eater but he also is a run producer for AL Hitters on opposing teams. If you need more pitching then it better be someone who allows less baserunners than he has. I wouldn’t call his last season with Philly a very good one and sure as hell not worth the money IMO.
We have enough pitching. Waste of salary. 8.5 million should be a portion of what we need to spend on a hitter via a trade because it’s obvious free agent hitters are not clamoring to come here.
Now as far as hitters go on other teams, maybe there are not many available who would fit with what Beane has in mind or maybe other teams want too much. I don’t know.
Hopefully Beane can find away to further improve our team in this department
You're OK with McCarthy, Cramer and Ross?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
We have 4 very good starters
One of those is fine cause we need hitting to giver our pitchers more of a cushion,
Sure, if a hitter were available to upgrade
by 2 WAR I’d be all for him, but who is there like that?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
I think the combined cruft at the fifth starter spot
will eventually throw up a league-average arm of some kind, and the playing time given to bad players involved in finding it will (on average) cost the A’s about one win.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I'm on board with the possibility that the combined
WAR of Cramer, McCarthy and Ross will be 1, but I also fear the potential injuries to Anderson and Braden which will require that these guys become the 4th starter
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
Fair point
Okay, 1.5 WAR then.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Then I'm satisfied
Given the context of the conversation, I thought you were pushing for Beltré as the only feasible option.
I love green because money be green.
What does Rafael Furcal have to do with anything?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
What's beside the point?
I wasn’t aware that we were dealing with a free agent that didn’t want to come to Oakland no matter what.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I was countering your proposal that Beane is stupid or stubborn...
… with the equally fanciful supposition that Beltré doesn’t want to play in Oakland.
I love green because money be green.
Forget stupidity.
You find Beane being stubborn to be a fanciful supposition? Okay.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Lenscrafters: I'm trying to quantify
your certainty on this notion that Beltre is the key to the AL West. I can’t tell how much you truly believe this with conviction or how much is just your assertive style of writing.
So imagine this were a bet, as of right now: Assume Beltre signs with an AL West team; you are betting the team that signs him wins the division, and I am betting the team that signs him does not win the division. (No payoff either way if he doesn’t sign with an AL West team.) What sort of odds would you give me on that. Are you 99% sure Beltre wins the division? 90% sure? 75% sure? 50% sure?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Better than 33%
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
It's not so much my certainty that whoever signs Beltre wins the division.
I’m more certain in the fact that a Beltre signing by either Texas or Anaheim means the A’s don’t win the division.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
If we're really 5 games worse than Texas, I don't see Beltre mattering
much. I see him as a maybe 1 win upgrade for a year and then a massive collapse risk
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
I see him as two...
People also have told me that I’m optimistic on Texas so….
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
OK let's say he channels Ponce de Leon for a year, it's still a longshot
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
Yes but he sounds like a marsupial, so that's good
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Do male marsupials have pouches?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
I think he sounds more like a gentlemen's pharmaceutical
It's the fans that make the game fun. -- Rickey Henderson, July 26, 2009.
by Englishmajor on Dec 29, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
Here's one
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
There once was a pitcher named Qualis
Who sought medical help for his phallus.
Told his wife, "There, there,
“I’m not having an affair —
“But the doctor told me, ‘See Alice’.”
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
by iglew on Dec 29, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Alice? Alice? Who the fuck is Alice?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
No idea, but I do know all the young girls love her
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
That's because they see the tender young version, not the aging slag that iglew referenced
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
Aging slag?
I was just making a pharmaceutical pun.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yup.
Every time I take that stuff, three things happen:
1 — I get the irresistible urge to bathe alone, for four hours or more, and
2 — my vision changes — I see Alice in every headlight. Dallas Alice, she is. and
3 — also my hearing — I have Lowell George ringing in my ears.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Dec 30, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
She's that chick with the hippie restaurant up in New York
Apparently you can get anything you want there.
"I'm glad I could contribute suicide bombings"- MissOakland
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 30, 2010 8:03 AM PST up reply actions
Chad Qualls
what a joke.
He(Beane) better pull some kind of miracle for an upgrade in the offense because we do not have enough to win the division IMO, unless our pitching staff has an ERA of like 3.00 combined for the year.
but at least he won't be hurt or an injury risk like all our other relievers.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
That's his main problem.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
i meant that as a negative for our existing (pre-qualls) bullpen
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
What I mean is that Chad Qualls' second worst quality
is his inability to get hitters out anymore. His worst quality is that he is always healthy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Dec 30, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i got your point. i was mocking the health concerns of our bullpen. perhaps it's lose-lose.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Our bullpen's not really that unhealthy overall
Ziggy and Breslow have been very healthy, Blevins not far behind, Bailey about average.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
if we're going to keep signing guys that require the qualifier (if healthy), then there are health concerns.
bailey has been hurt 2 years in a row. breslow is a risk in my opinion given the way he was used, especially late in the season after bailey went down. harden, devine and outman are likely to be counted on heavily at least on paper. i’m hopeful on wuertz coming back at full strength.
if this doesn’t bother you, then cool. it bothers me and i stand firmly behind any effort to improve the durability of the bullpen (hopefully not at the cost of quality).
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Basically: pitchers get hurt.
That’s pretty much what it comes down to.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
yes pitchers get hurt especially ones that have been hurt before. furthermore, do they return pitching as effectively as they did before they got hurt?
is the search for newer, healthier and better relief pitchers a bad thing. it seems to me that its one of the few places the a’s can cost effectively add quality.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Chad Qualls!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ah -- you want healthy, good pitchers.
Yeah, they’re expensive. Rafael Soriano, anyone?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
this team has a very long history of finding low cost and excellent risk-reward relievers. just cuz you want the laugh or can't think of any right now is not a reason to belittle my point.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Do you have anyone in mind?
If not, you’re just arguing for mom and apple pie.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
i don't specifically and i've admitted that before.
while others are focused on upgrading 3B or a COF spot, i’ve advocated finding young, effective and cheap relievers. there are others on this site with better knowledge of what’s available than i do.
my position doesn’t exactly have a lot of support, so no i don’t think i’m rooting for mom and apple pie. i’m rooting for what i think makes the most effective place to upgrade given our thin minor leagues system and lack of dollars.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
In that case I support you
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not trying to belittle anything
I’m just not sure what you’re saying. The A’s have acquired two cheap relievers (Farquar, Magnuson), are talking to two recently waived, formerly effective veterans (Qualls, Okajima), and already have in-house multiple relievers who are likely to be effective (Bailey, Wuertz, Breslow, Ziggy, Blevins, plus Devine/Harden).
I’m not sure what you think the problem is, or what you think the A’s have neglected or overlooked.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
thought i was very clear before but, okay, i'll say what i think the problem is again. too many of our relievers have the tag "if healthy" on them.
i’d like to rely less on guys like harden, outman, devine (injury histories) and pursue guys that can actually be healthy, good and cheap. we’ve found wuertz and breslow in the recent past externally for little and we’ve found guys internally (bailey and ziegler) that have made significant contributions.
i can already forsee the complaining as our relievers get hurt given their injury histories or are available only sporadically to minmize their wear and tear. maybe we should do something about that now versus pursuing an expensive starter, a 3B or a COF.
if you disagree, then it’s cool. but saying “soriano, anyone” is a mocking comment when our GM has an excellent track record of finding loads of cheap, high quality relievers.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Shouldn't they be doing this independent of
Beltre or anyone else? Finding cheap good relievers isn’t going to stop them from any other moves.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
that was my point in a thread 10 days ago and i got jumped on because we didn't have roster spots or dollars or whatever.
my rebuttal was fine. but then stop spending money on high risk opportunities like harden if spots are that precious.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Harden isn't really high risk in the sense
that his contract is cheap. Soriano would be high risk given his likely price and injury history.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
it's the roster spot that valuable, not the contract. though i fully expect him on the 60 day DL, so maybe the roster spot isn't a big deal.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
I guess, although I've no idea why
Conor has one.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Well...But...
Farquar and Magnuson are both cheap and healthy, Qualls and Okajima are both healthy and probably not expensive. That’s 4 relievers right there who have pristine track records and won’t cost a lot (plus two guys in Devine and Harden who have a ton of upside at low cost).
To go beyond that and get someone who appears to be both healthy and in his prime, you’d have to pay for someone like Soriano, which is what the A’s haven’t done. But they have done everything else.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or at least they will have if they get Qualls and Okajima
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
i didn't figure farquhar and magnuson as being options for this year
and i made my original point on this topic before we began pursuing okajima or qualls (or at least before our interest became public).
i didn’t think wuertz or breslow were targets before we got them. one was a trade and one was a free agent signing. there are loads of options for a creative and gutsy GM.
i guess artie rhodes has dissuaded us from expensive reliever signings.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
but neither Farquhar or Magnuson are good
Okajima signed and youve already
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Dear Baltimore Orioles/Peter Angelos/Andy MacPhail
Mark Reynolds is a bad defensive 3B. We all know you have that massively lucrative TV deal with MASN. Use it, move Reynolds to 1B, and sign Beltre to a massive deal.
Signed,
blicks
The Orioles have already been told that Beltre has no interest in them.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
This does not explain why beltre is picky
Is it spring yet?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Dec 29, 2010 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
Josh Fields
He is the only FA 3B option that is good. Only 28 yrs and has a good amount of power (hit 23 hrs in 100g/373ab in 2007. Last year he didn’t play much, but in only 13g (49abs) he hit 3 hr and batted .306/.320/.490 with a .810 OPS.
I know that doesn’t show much, but by the numbers it looks like he has a lot of potential. If played a full season he can easily hit 25+ hrs.
What do you think?
He's the perfect combination of awful and injured.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
injured yes, awful no
And do the A’s really care? He just turned 28, so he has a lot of room to grow/ heal. It’s not like it would cost us much. I’m sure there won’t be too many high bids on him. Do you have another FA 3B suggestion? Cause the rest of them actually do fall in the awful category.
I would much rather trade for a great 3B. But I’m just saying, if we want someone out of the FA pool to help at 3B, Fields is our man.
by Mike Siegel on Dec 29, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
He's the definition of replacement level.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
This is at the point where we're FAR better off keeping Kouz.
by danmerqury on Dec 29, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Josh Fields
The Pirates signed Fields to a minor league deal.
Eh...id rather we try david freese.
been good more recently (last year) before going down with injury.
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
I'm not so sure on Freese
He’s average on defense, and while he can hit for average, he doesn’t show much power. I’d be willing to take a shot on him in a rebuilding season, but he’s really not an upgrade over Kouz at the moment, and he’s half of each of the last 2 seasons.
It looks like Fields will sign with the Pirates
"We’re not talking to each other. We’re writing at each other. We’re writing for an audience. We know that other people are reading that wall post. We’re trying to elicit a response. I get the appeal, but you are forfeiting humanity." - - Aaron Sorkin
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 29, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sick of teams like the Pirates scooping up all the desirable free agents
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Well, they've got playoff contention to worry about!
"Honestly, the more I teach, the more I find myself in favor of medication. I don't think kids should take any, though." - Nico
Reading that article
It says we made a couple of offers to him and that we improved that offer.
Who knows.
Do not want him going to slegnA.
If the A's increased their initial offer
Is it possible we beat the Angels 5/70 offer, and it was just simply ignored again? If that’s the case, I hardly think we’re completely out of this. Well, I really don’t think anyone’s out of it until the man signs, but I don’t think us signing a Chad Qualls or Hideki Okajima is going to cripple our payroll flexibility to the point of forcing us out of the Beltre bidding. I would really love to find out what our second offer was because if it was higher then LAA’s, Boras and Beltre may find it much more attractive in a couple-few weeks.
Signing Chad Qualls or Hideki Okajima won't cripple our payroll
but they will give up wins on the field.
Do not want on both of them, period.
If signing one of those relievers cripplies our payroll
Then Billy overpaid for them…
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
They are two very different beasts:
Okajima could still pitch well; Qualls really can’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If in fact the A's did go past 5/70 and were still ignored, I'd say it's time to move on and wish him good luck getting that elsewhere
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Do we have to be that nice?
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
by MissOakland on Dec 29, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd be more than willing to tell him to kiss my ass
Lemme at ’im!
I love green because money be green.
And then I'll give him a nice big slap on...
the top of his head!
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
Why am I the only one who likes the idea of Chad Qualls?
Average to above-average K rate, average to well-above-average BB rate, and gets a ton of groundballs. And only a type B FA. Sure, he’s no Beltre, but we could do a hell of a lot worse for a bullpen acquisition.
I'm only for it if we trade a reliever in a package for a 3b
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
.... because he would be like the eighth or ninth best reliever on the team as it is?
Putting Chad Qualls on the A’s major league roster would make that roster objectively worse.
It’s possible that this is some kind of masterful negotiation ploy, but it’s more likely that it’s just the A’s cheaping out.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
how bout taking the money we offer to beltre
and giving it to soriano? devine in the seventh, him in the 8th and bailey in the 9th would be dominant
by jv52yankees on Dec 29, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
That's an even worse idea.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I do not like giving big money to relievers
It almost always fails.
If the A’s want to go after a pitcher, trade filler for Joe Blanton and bump McCarthy, etc. to the pen.
Tony Reagins: we know you have SOME money to work with, somewhere
since your team is still being linked to free agents. May I interest you in one Rafael Soriano to fill that veteran proven closer fix and Scott Podsednik for that LF hole.
how about taking the money we offer to beltre
and having FREE tickets for the upper deck?
You have to buy the beer, but why not?
by redtopcowboy on Dec 29, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
i like this idea. keg stands b/w innings. i have a photo of doing a keg stand at a USA vs China soccer match at San Jose State.
awesome.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Well...
Why the upper deck? If you’re going to let 15k in for free, since that’s everyone, might as well let them sit wherever they want.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
With the lower decks almost empty, it'll be like the stadium has a tonsure
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco
Why would anyone give Soriano that much money to pitch as a setup man, let alone a closer?
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Hmm
I think that reads better this way: “Why would anyone give Soriano that much money to pitch as a close, let alone a setup man?”
Meaning I wouldn’t give a closer that much, and I SURE wouldn’t give a setup guy that much.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Or lazy Ken Rosenthal speculation
that is his job, of course.
by Blicks on Dec 29, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Throwing bleep against the wall
To see what sticks
by OaklandSi on Dec 29, 2010 12:34 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'd like a sumo wrestler to throw Ken Rosenthal against a wall
to test the same hypothesis
"I'm glad I could contribute suicide bombings"- MissOakland
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 29, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
That's ridiculous.
Bailey, Breslow, and Wuertz (if healthy). That’s it. Qualls is better than anyone else.
There's a lot of sallymouthing going on because everybody had their hopes up for Beltré
That’s my explanation.
I love green because money be green.
I would give a job to Ziegler, Devine, Blevins, or de los Santos (yes, straight out of AA)
before I would consider giving it to Qualls. If Brad Kilby is healthy I’d add him to the list. None of those require any thought whatsoever on my part. They’re clear, obvious upgrades. Ross and Outman are likely upgrades too, though that requires a certain degree of conjecture since they’ve mostly pitched as starters. Then you’ve got guys who might well turn out to be better like Cramer-as-reliever, the various new guys, and Paul Smyth.
Chad Qualls is incredibly mediocre. A 3.82 career ERA is barely above replacement level for a relief pitcher as it is, and his recent track record is much worse than that. No team with any semblance of bullpen depth— and the A’s certainly are not short of bullpen depth— should even be considering the guy.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I disagree.
Sign him, DFA Figueroa, who won’t contribute this year and might pass through waivers.
I think you’re overstating the number of guys who are better than him on the A’s.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 29, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
The time to DFA Figueroa was several months ago
That ship has sailed. He cannot be expected to pass through waivers at this point. Plenty of bad teams have the roster space to make room for a free prospect.
The correct player to release if the A’s signed Qualls would in fact be Conor Jackson, which is more than a little ironic, since he’s another of DM’s inexplicable man-crushes on horrible, late 20s/early 30s journeymen.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Please.
The only reason why I appear to have “man-crushes on horrible journeymen” is because I feel the need to defend them from your laughable hyperbole.
by danmerqury on Dec 29, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Is there a defense for Conor Jackson?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
Depends.
I’m not going to defend his roster spot at this point. That’s a bad move. And yet somehow, I’ve been thrust into the role of Jackson defender of all that is holy, all because I don’t hate him as much as some.
I'd be OK with him on an NRI
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
If I were more evil, I would hope the Jackson haters get valley fever
But since I’m not that evil, I only hope Jackson has a nice comeback season and shuts a few mouths.
"I'm glad I could contribute suicide bombings"- MissOakland
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 30, 2010 8:06 AM PST up reply actions
I love Conor Jackson.
I will happily assume the mantle of AN’s token Conor Jackson defender.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
+1
Conor’s an OK little play if he was cheap and the team could experiment. He’s overpaid and probably of no use on this competing roster but I don’t think it’s impossible for him to be a 2 WAR player.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
He's not cheap and the team does not have room or time to experiment,
so the counterfactual is kind of irrelevant.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I do agree that as an expensive 5th OF, Raj was better
But I also think Conor’s better than replacement level. I would have given Jackson to the Rockies when they asked a while ago. If you’re optimistic about Conor’s health I could even almost justify his salary.
All in all, Jackson has a place on a major league roster, but he’s not really a fit for the A’s.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Paul, look how bad the currently available FA right-handed hitting corner OFs are.
Jackson has more upside than any of them. And he’s a passable defender out there, unlike Marcus Thames.
I think you are a bit irrationally negative about him.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 30, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
It's surprising that after the good free agent corner outfielders have signed,
the remainder are not good?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Scott Hairston, Andruw Jones, Lastings Milledge, and Reed Johnson are available right now.
All of them are either:
1) Better fielders than Jackson
2) Better hitters than Jackson
3) Less injured than Jackson
4) Cheaper than Jackson
In some cases, all four. And this is this late into the offseason.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 30, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
Scott Hairston, who was a total a****** in his time here, has a .275 OBP in the last year and a half, and is two years older than Jackson?
Milledge would never be on the A’s under Beane’s watch. For better or worse, this franchise has no ability whatsoever to deal with players that have makeup issues. That’s part of why they were willing to deal CarGo. I guess that part doesn’t address your concerns above, but…Milledge also sucks, so there’s that too.
Andruw Jones sometimes decides he doesn’t like baseball (2008), and he prefers to be 30 pounds overweight. I can’t hate on this – I prefer to be overweight too. But I can’t imagine a low-motivation player thriving in Oakland. He needs to be in ideal conditions to succeed.
Reed Johnson’s a 5-foot-10, 34-year-old who hit 2 homers last year and had a .291 OBP.
Again, none of these four guys – in an Oakland A’s uniform, which is really what we’re talking about – have the upside that 28-year-old Connor Jackson, who is excited to be back here, does. Jackson’s peak might still be in front of him.
I like that Beane has assembled a group of highly-motivated 28-32 year-olds. Kouz/DJJ/Willy/Crisp fit into that group, too. All these guys are good character guys that are near free agency and at max motivation.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 30, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
What troubles me is that Gonzalez only had "makeup issues"
to the A’s. He seems to have quite the opposite reputation for the Rockies. Not sure this says anything about Gonzalez…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Makeup issues magically disappear when you have a breakout season.
Its (junk) science!!!!!
The media is awesome like that.
Your argument basically comes down to
everyone on that list having poor makeup, which is baseless and defamatory
(Scott Hairston was an asshole here? Really?), and everyone on our team having perfect makeup…even the new guys who we know little to nothing about.
And, if I’m not mistaken, it’s not the first time you’ve made wild accusations like this to support your arguments.
And for god’s sake, of course Conor Jackson is happy to be here. Beane is giving him 3 million dollars and a major league roster spot when he’d be lucky to get a major league contract elsewhere.
And can we please never refer to Willingham as “Willy” ever again…
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 30, 2010 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
Do some research.
The three guys I said have makeup issues have them. Also, be less abrasive.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 30, 2010 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
I have and I could not find anything to support the notion that Scott Hairston was an asshole here in Oakland.
Andruw Jones has weight issues but he’s also produced more than Jackson has in a long time.
I won’t deny that Milledge probably has makeup issues as he’s had incidents in the past. But if you don’t like him, you don’t have to sign him. He’s not the only option.
I would’ve respond much more nicely if you had not hit on one my pet peeves: trying to discern a players “makeup” through secondhand reports, hearsay, and having no real personal knowledge of the player. It’s about as annoying as the “Matt Holliday hates Oakland cause he didn’t smile” meme. Personally, I think you’re beyond that.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 30, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
I honestly couldn't figure out who he meant
by “Willy”.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yes. I'd strongly advise you to settle right now for $500,000.00
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would love some contract year drama.
Hey, Hammer. you know you want to hit some dingers and stay healthy in Oakland so you can get that multi-year FA deal. Jesus and Crisp, y’all too.
With no Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth, y’all are some of the best and youngest options on the market.
Andru is Eleventy billion times more worthy of Jacksons roster spot
also he would be cheaper than paying Jackson Arb. Furthermore as a HOF type talent his upside far excedes the hitters ballpark 861 ops that Jackson put up.
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
You really think
That Jones is still a HOF-type talent?
He’s a nice option against left-handed pitchers, and I’m not sure about his defense, but I doubt he’s anything extraordinary anymore. I could be wrong, though.
And the last couple years he’s put up OPS’s of .782 and .827 in hitters ballparks.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
He had 9 5 WAR Seasons and I would have far rather signed him than acquired Willingham
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Jan 1, 2011 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
AKA "Josh Willingham is better than you think!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
he really isn't.
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Jan 1, 2011 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
Andruw was better last year with wRC+ than all but Willinghams last two years.
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Jan 1, 2011 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
His last one
was almost 7 years and about 30 pounds ago.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
Which says nothing about his HOF qualifications.
The marginal upgrade from Jones to Willingham is worth $5m (a salary of + Henry Rodriguez + Corey Brown. I think the difference between the two players is about 1 WAR, from Andruw at 2 to Willingham at 3, so if you get one win out of Rodriquez (I know thats more than a little suspect) then you are already paying market rate for your wins. Also I really like Corey Brown.
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Jan 1, 2011 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
How are they "clear, obvious upgrades"?
Devine has the potential, but he’s unlikely to be healthy. The others are very comparable to Qualls in career FIP and 2010 FIP, to the point where you could say, at worst, he’ll be their equals. And using career ERA as a benchmark? Really? First of all, 3.82 is well above replacement level. Secondly, he’s spent his whole career in hitters parks, and thirdly, his recent track record is fine. His peripherals are all in line with his career norms. The only things that changed were his absurd .399 BABIP and his 53% baserunner strand rate, both of which were far and away the worst in the majors among all qualified relievers.
Well, for one thing, ERA is more predictive of future ERA than WHIP is
WHIP is a 100% useless statistic for all purposes and use of it should really be outlawed by act of Congress.
However, more relevant here is the fact that Qualls has pitched in the majors for six and a half seasons. When working with that kind of sample size (and Qualls has been quite consistent, so I see no reason to truncate the sample any) ERA is superior to FIP for projections, IMO.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
ERA superior to FIP for projecting a relief pitcher?
I find this surprising, and I’d like to hear your rationale for it. ERA seems like an especially dodgy stat to use for a reliever given the short appearances, and the lack of park adjustment only adds to the problem.
by Glorious Mundy on Dec 30, 2010 6:03 AM PST up reply actions
FIP isn't park adjusted either, as I noted earlier on the thread
so that’s a red herring— and, again, this is a player with six and a half seasons of data, not someone straight out of the minor leagues.
Relievers show stronger control over BABIP and strand rate than starters do. Once the sample size becomes large enough, ERA starts to become preferable to FIP, because it starts capturing real skills.
The truth is, technically, that at this point he’s probably somewhere in the middle of the two values— perhaps more like 3.75— but we’re talking about hundredths of a run of ERA here.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Cripes, a sabermetric argument for the value of ERA
We’re through the looking glass here, people.
I love green because money be green.
It's only through the looking glass if
your attitude toward sabermetrics is a simplistic “old stats bad, new stats good”. If you actually have some awareness of why the sabermetric stats are better, then Paul’s defense of ERA in this context is perfectly logical.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
but doesn't the fact that relievers often don't pitch in context neutral events cause problems with this?
Qualis could enter an inning with two outs runners at second and third and give up a triple and walk two and get an out. ERA will not charge him for the bad pitching. FIP will (for the walks at least.
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
I seriously doubt that Chad Qualls has, over a six and a half year sample size,
done enough better or worse with inherited runners than he has with his own baserunners to make more than the slightest difference in evaluating him.
If he only ever pitched to one batter at a time that might be a different story, but as far as I know he’s about as close to “generic middle reliever” as they come.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Besides the fact that most of his ERA comes in the NL,
making it even worse than it appears, Qualls has spent the past two seasons basically getting no one out. He. Sucks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Simply put he's garbage
Just watch him pitch a few times without knowing his stats or history.
He will lose games for us.
No thanks.
His sinker seems to have lost that all-important
“go downness.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Perhaps it's that crucial 0.37 from 2.17 to 2.54 that gets hitters out.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
THAT'S the problem!
Too much drop!!!!! I WILL make Chad Qualls fit my narrative, dammit. With Bowers gone, I need a good scapegoat. Give or take the “scape.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
More importantly
He’s seems to have lost all his “non-suckness”.
"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
Admittedly, I may be attending "small sample theatre,"
but each time I saw him pitch he was horrific. I’ll grant it’s not a great reason to think he can’t pitch anymore, but he scares me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Any chance that we could turn his Type B status into type A status and net draft picks at the end of the year?
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 29, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
His horrible year last year will be included but his 2nd best year 2 years ago won't be
Short answer: No. He would have to put up a monster season. Big enough that we would want to keep him and not let him go to FA. High unlikely, but he could still be a Type B for one draft pick.
He is NOT the player to play that kind of game with
Neither is Okajima, since the team would be stuck having to hold him for two seasons to get picks.
Grant Balfour or Kevin Gregg would be much better targets if you want to game the system.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I'm strongly pro-marsupial
(flags self for political statement)
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
/irresposibly self-flags self
I’ve heard you’ll go blind doing that
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
I'm not totally against it, but the thing is that he's ok. Just ok.
He had a horrible year last year, but that’s due to pitching in Arizona. His ERA was almost 3 points higher than his FIP, so it’s not entirely his fault. I would only do a one year, $2 Million deal as a backup/see-if-will-he-do-well-with-our-defense-and-pitching-in-Oakland idea in mind.
I'm with you
He’s actually fairly good.
I take last year as an outlier. The last 3 seasons before that he was one of the best relievers in the NL…
All I can say about stats is…
SCOTT BROSIUS!!
by stranahanahan on Dec 30, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Yep.
Like I said above, he had a .399 BABIP and a 53% baserunner strand rate, both of which were “first place” in the majors by miles.
But a tRAr of 3.31 is actually pretty good
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
By Fangraphs WAR he was 0.3 wins above replacement last year
i.e. not even worth $2M by FIP.
By BB-Ref, which is off a runs-allowed baseline, he was, astoundingly, three full wins below replacement level.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
OK but we both know that FIP penalizes those who pitch in HR friendly places and
rWAR further penalizes those who pitch in front of crappy defenses
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:04 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, sure (though I was under the impression that both WAR figures were park-adjusted)
I know he wasn’t really bad enough to be 3 wins below replacement on a true-talent basis last season. I just thought it was (misleading or otherwise) an amazing statistic.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Is FIP park-adjusted? I didn't know that it was.
I thought that’s what xFIP was for
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
Not FIP, but I think FIP-based WAR is
xFIP is not park-adjusted either. Parks influence K and BB rates (obviously you’re less likely to throw a challenge fastball in Coors than in Petco knowing how much more likely it is to get blasted).
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Sorry, Fangraphs WAR is indeed park-adjusted. I misunderstood
your post
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
Please wake me up when there is actually real news about this subject...Thanks!
There is no A in OFFENSE!!
I'm for letting you sleep till Opening Day
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
unless any more prospects quit to join the Priesthood, of course!
"I'm glad I could contribute suicide bombings"- MissOakland
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 30, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions
Hibernation is fun!
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Beltre
get it through all your heads he doesn’t want to play for Oakland. Let it go and time to move on. beltre would have signed if he wants to go to Oakland but has no desire to play here.
Beltre wants money
He didn’t sign here because he wants more than what we offered. And guess what, someone offered him more. I’m not saying he does want to play here, but right now it’s hard to actually make a case for what you just said.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Who offered more?
If the A’s re-upped like the report says they most likely matched the Angels offer and more. Get real Boras hates Oakland and will not let any of his guys sign here. See Damon…
How about Grant Green?
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
Boras wouldn't be a good agent if this were true.
Get real Boras hates Oakland and will not let any of his guys sign here. See Damon…
You negotiate with everybody. If your client doesn’t want to play for someone, that’s your client’s decision, but you, as an agent, aren’t doing your job if you’re not negotiating with everybody.
Now, to be fair, Scott Boras did despise Jim Bowden, but Jim Bowden is an outright moron, and GMs also despised him.
Hold your nose
Here’s what’s left:
Third basemen
Willy Aybar (28)
Adrian Beltre (32) – Type A, offered arb
Jorge Cantu (29)
Eric Chavez (33)
Joe Crede (33)
Greg Dobbs (32)
Pedro Feliz (36)
Kevin Frandsen (29)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (35)
Andy LaRoche (27)
Felipe Lopez (31) – Type B, offered arb
source: mlbtraderumours.com
"We’re not talking to each other. We’re writing at each other. We’re writing for an audience. We know that other people are reading that wall post. We’re trying to elicit a response. I get the appeal, but you are forfeiting humanity." - - Aaron Sorkin
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 29, 2010 1:57 PM PST reply actions
It's purely because of his 3.9 WAR year in Philly 2 years ago
That and this year’s crop of NL infielders is pretty slim.
I say no to all of them
especially Cantu…That is one scary lookin dudde
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
Weren't we all hot for Andy LaRoche not too long ago?
Funny to see him all sorts of available now.
I love green because money be green.
I don't see the reason to get a 3B at all
Kouz. Problem solved.
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
I'm inclined to agree
Although I wouldn’t mind signing Chavez to a minor league contract. Not that I ever expect him to log time at 3rd, just out of sentiment.
I love green because money be green.
Sign him to a minor league contract
bring him up and let him DH for a game EARLY in April, and let him retire.
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
He's broken
Infield version of Travis Buck.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Would he wear an A's cap to his HOF induction ceremony?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
remember when we kept trying to pry away Andy LaRoche from the Dodgers in all those rumored Blanton deals?
…yeah….
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
Dude, I was so gonna include Chin-lung Hu in my original post above
I love green because money be green.
I liked him. I wanted to trade Dana Eveland for him
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Wasn't he finally traded yesterday?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Laroche?
still young and impressionable. a lot of learning to do. could pay off nicely. his bro has turned pretty good
Steph + Monta for Prez
by j-spliff415 on Dec 30, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
Reports like these are so dumb...
If the A’s upped their offer and it was bigger than any other and he still said no, that doesn’t mean they’re out. Because at the end of the day, if it’s the best offer available, he’ll take it and the A’s will sign him unless they do something major between now and then.
If the A’s offered 5/$75 and it’s the best offer, they still stand a great chance to get him.
When they report that there are no more talks, it probably means that neither is willing to budget right now. That’s changes very quickly.
Budget or budge?
I guess either could be used.
"We’re not talking to each other. We’re writing at each other. We’re writing for an audience. We know that other people are reading that wall post. We’re trying to elicit a response. I get the appeal, but you are forfeiting humanity." - - Aaron Sorkin
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 29, 2010 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Well... it's not a given that he'll sign with whoever offers him the most money
The gist I got from the report is that the A’s felt they had no legitimate shot at him for some particular reason, and so they moved on. I’d like to see him come back with his hat in his hand, but I doubt it will happen; it appears he wants something the A’s can’t give him.
I love green because money be green.
It's even more dumb considering that this is like the 3rd report saying that we're out
And yet during that time we upped our offer at least once? I think the market’s just getting slow and uneventful enough for reporters.
What's the strategy in making this news public?
Now it appears that LAAA has all of the leverage. Wouldn’t the A’s want to drive the price up on them? Unless, this inspires LAAA to lowball so Beltre comes back to Oakland and accepts.
If Anaheim thinks the A's are out of it the longer they will dig their heals in with Boras.
This could in turn get Boras to come back to the A’s to ask for a more (Oakland) friendly number.
5/80? I’d do it.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Dec 29, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
God I hope we don't sign him for 5/80
Only Boras and lenscrafters seem to think teams should be that desperate to sign him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 30, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha ha, not sure what I was on when I wrote that.
I have felt all along the A’s should max out at 5/75, which is what I usually say when analyzing Beltre. For the record, no I would NOT offer 5/80. I think 5/75 is too high but is a reasonable overpay to make if it gets a deal done.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Oh, if you care, I recall what I meant by that comment...
I thought it was crazy to make Beltre a big offer at the time you wanted the A’s to. Once the Angels made their offer, I was responding “NOW you make that offer” — though for me it wouldn’t be 5/80, not then and not now and not ever. But my point was supposed to be (and I admit it was poorly written) that you shouldn’t make a “new really good offer” until “now” (that day). For me, though, it maxes out a 5/75, which I still feel is an overpay but one I can understand making sense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
lol.
This is what you wrote “then”:
NOW you offer 5/80, final offer, take it or leave it. They didn’t need to offer it until now, and now they need to.
Seems clear as daylight to me. But whatevs, while your backtracking is amusing, I don’t really have the time to play “he said, he said” games. I’ll leave it to everyone else to make their own judgments about what you meant.
And if our proposals really only differ by 5 million dollars over 5 years, then I don’t see the point of your first comment in this thread. Unless of course, your intention was to call me out, bait me, and irritate me, but the chief administrator of a well-regarded and highly trafficked blog should be beyond such things…no?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 30, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Right. Like I just acknowledged, I shouldn't have said "5/80,"
I should have said “a new higher offer.” Which for me would max out at 5/75. If you look at comment after comment from me over time on this, you’ll see that I have consistently advocated maxing out at 5/75 and have consistently been against going as high as 5/80.
So to repeat back your “5/80” as I did was careless of me, when what I meant was “a new higher offer.” What I was trying to talk about in that comment was TIMING, not so much the exact amount.
i really hope the A’s don’t offer Beltre 5/80, because I think a team that signs him for 5/80 is very likely to regret it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Meh, I have to take one thing back --
Looking through my comments I’ve wavered about holding firm at 5/75. That’s the fan in me, I guess. Objectively, I think 5/75 should be the upper limit. The fan in me wants to see the team improve, now, at any cost!!!111 But that’s not how I really feel as an analyst.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The fan in me hates Beltre, his stupid head-touching phobia, thinks he's only "worth it" in contract years,
doesn’t believe defense is even close to being important as offense and wants to stick it to Scott Boras and everything he stands for.
The analyst in me knows the team has to improve, at almost any cost.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 30, 2010 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
Well at least we agree on something --
I actually hate Beltre too, the head-phobic, Oakland-rejecting, jerk. But I believe the worst way to approach negotiations is “We need him at any cost!” and the best way is, “Shrug, we’d like you but we have Kouz.”
The team DOESN’T have to improve at any cost. I believe that as is, the three teams in the AL West equation are right about even, with TEX, OAK, LAA the best guess but all within the margin of error.
The Rangers’ rotation of Lewis, Wilson (huge regression candidate), Hunter, Holland, and Webb isn’t imposing. The Angels, even with Beltre, have two excellent SPs and an excellent corner INF, and not much more.
I don’t believe it’s so imperative to go into a season with “the most wins on paper.” I think it’s essential to get into the “contention range” and then maximize your chances of having things roll right (by having depth, making smart roster/player management decisions, etc.).
The A’s 2012 outlook is not grim, with all the SPs under contract, with two of three OFers quite possibly re-signed. It’s not awesome, but it’s not bleak.
I know you don’t like to “roll the dice” on health, breaks, developments, and so on, but you know what? Baseball is like that. Instead of hamstringing the organization with a bad contract, you can also accept that being in the range of contention is good, hope for the best, and maintain the flexibility to keep the organization strong long-term.
I’d like the A’s to sign Beltre. And at the prices Boras is holding out for, I’m fine if they don’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I like the head-touching-phobia.
I think that’s pretty cool.
I don’t generally get into the game of rooting for trades or FA signings because I just figure they’ll do what they do and I’d rather save my rooting energy for hoping that whoever we do get does well, but I quite like Adrian Beltre and if we end up with him on the team I’ll be pleased.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I like his "appealing his own check swings to the 1B umpire."
I just need to be fully prepared to despise him in case he signs elsewhere.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think I've been fairly consistent in saying I wouldn't go above 5/80 for him...
…and I’d rather not even go that high.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Please explain to me why 15 million a year for 5 years is fine for you
whereas 16 million a year for 5 years is the mother of all catastrophes you’re making it out to be.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 30, 2010 6:34 PM PST up reply actions
There has to be a limit somewhere.
You can always play the game of “If 13’s ok, 14’s not much different…So if 14’s ok, 15’s not much different…So if 15’s ok, 16’s not much different…So if 16’s ok, 17’s not much different…”
in fact, Scott Boras hopes you’ll play that game, rather than figuring out a reasonable top value and holding to it. I think 5/75 is an overpay, personally. 5/70 is about the limit of what I think any team should offer him. But up to 5/75, I can see it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You're not understanding me.
I’m not talking about repeatedly bidding upwards according to Boras’s whims. I am setting a limit.
Let’s say 5/75 gets it done, and Boras tells you for 5/80, you get Beltre, for sure. According to your stance here, you would say no. Why is 15 million per year for 5 years the pill you can swallow, whereas 16 million is ridiculous? Remember, we’re not talking about going hypothetically even higher. We’re talking about why this 1 million dollar difference holds so much meaning for you.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 30, 2010 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not going to speak for Nico here but I don't even really like 5/75 for Beltre...
…because I believe he’s due for a serious decline in Oakland and I don’t think the chance of contending with him for the next couple years or so is worth the albatross I’d expect that contract to be in years four and five in particular.
I’d rather not even go above 5/70, to be honest. 5/75 would be doable if that’s what it took but I’d really not want to go up to 5/80.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I don't love 5/75 either.
I think it’s worth it if the alternative is him going to the Angels and pretty dubious if it isn’t. I think 5/70 is about the limit of actually reasonable offers.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
if nobody is offering anything above 5/70
should we leap at 5/80? we’re getting close to the “bidding against ourselves” world here. i’m not saying we should say 5/70.00001, but jumping from the highest market bid to something $10m higher, with no indication that anyone will exceed 5/70, is a bit much. and…again, we’re all speculating here about basically everything…maybe we already offered 5/80. it seems highly likely we went above 5/70 before “dropping out”.
by guy incognito on Dec 30, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
And the comment I made before
was precisely in reference to when the Angels hadn’t even bid 5/70 yet, and Oakland’s 5/64 was the only known offer anyone had ever made.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well done, sir
Very well done.
Often wrong but never in doubt
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
We don't know nearly enough to speculate about such things.
We don’t know if Rosenthal is right, what Beane’s thinking, or what the Angels are thinking or have offered.
by Brett Narloch on Dec 29, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Uh, we know that Rosenthal
reported that an A’s official said they were out of it after upping their offer. It is highly unlikely that Rosenthal made this up. It’s true we don’t know what Beane and LAAA are thinking, but we know they’re both interested in Beltre. All of this information, I think, allows for speculation. Otherwise, we should probably shut this site down right now.
Is it likely that Beane or Forst would say that to Rosenthal?
by OaklandSi on Dec 29, 2010 3:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think it's likely that either one would brake if they saw him crossing the street
"I'm glad I could contribute suicide bombings"- MissOakland
by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 30, 2010 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
That would assume that the Angels have no idea how to conduct negotiations,
and/or are more interested in buffering their ego and sticking it to Boras instead of signing players to improve their team.
Since that’s unlikely, there’s really no reason why the A’s should’ve leaked that they’re no longer interested in Beltre. Yet another foolish move.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
Another motiviation for LAAA
would be to pay less for Beltre, which seems to me the most likely.
You seem willing to assume that the Angels know how to conduct negotiations but the A's are run by bumbling idiots
I disagree. Whatever your opinion about some of the moves the A’s front office has made, I don’t think you can just assume complete incompetence while in the same breath assuming the opposite about the Angels.
It also assumes that the A's leaked the information intentionally
And that the “leak” is legitimate.
I love green because money be green.
What the fuck are you talking about?
The only thing I’m assuming is that the Angels wouldn’t try to screw over Boras by turning around and offering him something like 4/56 after already reportedly offering him 5/70. This is the very definition of negotiating in bad faith and you’ll be lucky if other agents even decide to give you the time of day when you try to sign players in the future. This is the only assumption I’m making about the Angels’ ability to conduct negotiations. And this is an assumption I would make for every. single. team. including the A’s.
You should take up your beef with the people who think that Beltre will come crawling back to the A’s or Angels and they can get away with lowballing 4/56 to him. These are the people who are assuming that Boras is clueless, that they know what’s going on behind the scenes in the market better than Boras. And not only that but they also think that the A’s and Angels, like I outlined, are clueless themselves because they think they can get away with offering Beltre 4/56. Basically, these people are assuming everyone is clueless, except for, well, them.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
I think you could totally rationalize and explain a reduced offer.
“We offered you 5/70 at the beginning of the offseason. That was our entire budget for the offseason. Then we made some additions that cut into our 2011 payroll (Scott Downs, that other guy; DJJ, Willy, Matsui). We are now offering you the remaining money that we have.”
(Something to that effect).
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 29, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
I think the ridiculous popularitity of excessive backloading would render such an argument moot
“You’ll get your 5/75 or whatever, but you will get about 60% of AAV in 2011, ala Jayson Werth”
That explanation can perhaps assuage the agent's anger towards you.
But you still wouldn’t be able to sign his client for that offer.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
No, it wouldn't sign him...
But I think it dismisses the concerns about “negotiating in bad faith,” creating a bad rep with agents, etc.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 29, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but what's the point?
You don’t sign the player and you risk pissing off agents. Teams don’t bother doing this for a reason.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
did i miss something?
i thought scott downs signed elsewhere
the context...
Both the A’s and Angels could possibly rationalize making reduced offers to Beltre because both teams have made significant expenditures to other players since the initial offer to Beltre.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 29, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
What is the "very definition of negotiating in bad faith?"
Here, it appears to be negotiating to get the best deal you can given the market conditions.
I should add
that I absolutely disagree that anything discussed here would be considered a bad faith negotiation tactic.
Retrograde bargaining is generally interpreted to be a sign that you are uninterested in actually achieving a deal
In collective bargaining, it’s a black-letter unfair labor practice. This is not collective bargaining, so it’s not legally actionable, but it’s certainly idiotic.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
How is it retrograde bargaining?
At this point it’s an entirely new deal. Given enough time, you do actually have to start over and take into account the new market situation. You start to make a deal on one stock today, don’t expect the same deal to be available tomorrow.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Exactly.
Like the guy above said, this is a much different negotiation environment than labor deals. If you offer a contract, and a few days later, the environment has changed and your deal hasn’t been accepted, the player risked that things may have changed while he was sitting on the deal.
Plus 4/56 would be a higher annual offer than the A's previous one.
Sometimes deals aren’t so much “better” or “worse” as they are “different” or “in the context of now, instead of then.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Even 56 would be too much for my taste. I could go for 2/35 though
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
I'd do 2/35 in a heartbeat
Especially because that’s where I believe Beltre’s value will be worth that much and you’re not tied to him longer.
But that’s not advantageous to what Beltre wants, which is both the money and security in years.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Yes but he may have to choose one or the other
He might also be able to get 2/38 which would probably be my maximum for 2
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
And the West Coast -- but when the Angels offer all three
the answer is “NO!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ya, not sure what he was thinking there
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 31, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think either team should go higher than that
My hope is that the A’s “recent offers” (if they were even made) were more like, “Well, how about 3/48? Or 2/35? Maybe 6/76?” and that the Angels are holding firm on not going higher than 5/70.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You don't think conditions change over the course of a labor negotiation?
Conditions are always changing. If there is one constant in life it is that nothing is constant.
Revoking an offer and then showing up with what essentially is the same offer, except worse, is going to piss a player off, regardless of whether you attempt to cover your ass with ridiculous rationalizations about how “things have changed.”
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
DFAing a hitter right before Opening Day because you gamble it'll work,
then signing him cheap and stashing him in the minors for two months, will also piss a player off. But it doesn’t stop teams from doing it and “succeeding” (signing the player).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It sure cost us this year.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I don't see how
Seems it was the A’s who decided they didn’t want Cust back, not Cust who turned down any offers from them this offseason.
We can talk about what it means to the team by not having him in the lineup, but it’s not like the A’s offered him something good and he told them to stick it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
We lost a good player and ended up paying more for a worse player
Whether we rejected Cust or he just took the first deal out of town is speculation. Either way, there was never any chance (in my mind) that he would choose to sign here again. And that hurts us.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I think if you think really hard about it (or perhaps, not so hard at all),
you’ll find that Jack Cust’s situation last year has little to do at all with Beltre’s current situation.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Here
you’re dealing with more of a competitive market. That’s not the case in labor. Player’s agents use opposing team’s bids to drive up a player’s price. It’s seems perfectly sensible for it to go the other way as well. And when has pissing off a player really mattered? Please.
It's really simple.
When people go into negotiations, they try to, well, negotiate a deal that’s best for both sides. They do not go in with the intention of screwing over the other the other side (well, not unless they think they can get away with it).
When you offer someone a deal, you’ve set your own price for that person. If that someone says they’ll take your offer, and then you say, “No” and offer them a lesser deal, then you are deliberately and lucidly trying to screw them over. That’s bad faith, and likely to piss them off immensely. They’ll be more likely to take a lesser offer with someone else than bend over backwards for you and lose face.
Can you think of any players taking a lesser deal with the same team in spite of originally being offered a better deal? Or better yet, can you think of any Scott Boras client who’s done that?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree.
“When people go into negotiations, they try to, well, negotiate a deal that’s best for both sides.” Nope, they try to negotiate the best deal for themselves. You can also go in with the intention of screwing someone by getting the best deal possible.
You’re right in that you can’t rescind a contract after it’s been entered into for your state purposes. But no one recommended that. You can certainly retract an offer before it’s been accepted and submit a new low ball offer. This is perfectly acceptable.
Whether a player has taken a lesser deal than originally offered by the same team, I don’t know. But I bet it’s happened.
Yeah I phrased that wrong.
People obviously go in trying to negotiate a deal that’s best for themselves. Obviously, this might entail screwing each other over but only if you can get away with it.
“You can certainly retract an offer before it’s been accepted and submit a new low ball offer” falls into the category of trying to screw over the other guy, but not something you can expect to get away with. So no, not perfectly acceptable.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
we've argued over this before
its one thing to try and lowball somebody…its another thing to devote your resources elsewhere, and then offer them less later on if their demands ended up being unreasonable. and, again, the market isn’t just about price, but about timing. if there is literally no interest for beltre at 5/85, there is no reason why either the a’s nor the angels have to offer him something more than the offer he already rejected UNLESS they are competing against each other for him. time duration is real in terms of value. beltre might LOSE value the longer he waits on offers.
by guy incognito on Dec 29, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
I apologize for being blunt,
but this is simply incorrect. Once an offer is retracted (before being accepted) there is no obligation on the part of either side. You’re then free to do whatever you want, including offering Beltre a $5 gift card to Starbucks for an 8 year contract (assuming that MLB doesn’t have a regulation against compensation being in the form of coffee beverages).
I don't know why you're not understanding this.
Sure the A’s are free to do that. They can do whatever they want. They can offer Beltre two cockroaches and a ding dong if they’re inclined.
The whole point is that it wouldn’t be smart to, because you’re making it known that you’re trying to screw him over.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
I think the disconnect is
that we’re talking about different things then. I’m talking about “bad faith negotiations,” which is a legal wrong. You’re just talking about what’s generally accepted in the world of baseball negotiations.
Your whole point is wrong.
Assuming the A’s give a competitive market offer, even if it’s a very low one, it hardly tarnishes their reputation with other free agents and/or their agents. The reality is Beltre gambled that he can get a better offer. Part of that gamble is that an offer he turns down will still be available to him later on. There’s no guarantee that it will be available again and if he tries to get it later and gets told “no, you have to accept this lower offer if you want to sign with us” this will in no way hurt us in the future. It’s the simple reality of these sorts of hard ball negotiations. For the A’s, their only risk in offering a lower contract is having someone else say “oh, huh, now the offer on the table is lower, maybe we can offer a little more and get him.” At which point Beltre can return the favor and say, “Oh well, that offer is too low and now I have someone willing to pay ‘X’ amount, can you do better?” in an effort to get his market value back up to what the A’s original offer was (or higher).
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
We can back and forth arguing about the effects of these types of negotiations on the emotional psyches of agents and players all we want.
But there’s a quick way to settle this discussion once and for all…
My original proposal stands: Find me some Boras clients who took a lesser deal with the same team in spite of originally being offered a better deal. Show me a team that actually had the guts to utilize that tactic. Or, to make this challenging for yourself, find me a top tier Boras client, like one on Beltre’s level, that was bagged using that tactic.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't this happen with Manny and the Dodgers?
Or am I misremembering?
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Nah, the Dodgers started with 2/45 with an option for a 3rd year
and ended up with 2/45 and giving Ramirez an opt out clause.
The contentiousness of those discussions was over deferred money and interest, I think.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm
I thought he ended up getting around $42.5 million? Unless BBref is wrong, which it may be.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Huh?
I’m not sure which BBref you’re looking at but mine says 2/45
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, right
I was going to the bottom and adding up the two years, which came to $42,549,500.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Signing bonus, maybe?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Their disclaimer does say it may not included some earned bonuses
So maybe that’s it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Whether it has happened or not is entirely irrelevant.
It’s probable that it’s happened before. I doubt we’d know about it if it did. But so what? Your argument for the most part hasn’t been whether it has happened but about the results of trying to do it. Now it seems like you’re changing what you’re arguing about.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
No, it's entirely relevant.
My entire argument is that going back on your offer will pretty much never get the player signed and also stands a good chance of pissing off the agent and player who knows you’re negotiating in a vindictive, unfair way. Finding examples of players who did sign even after being bent over like that would refute it, because it would mean that it doesn’t matter, like what you’re saying.
And what parts of my argument am I changing?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
there's a problem with this
that is, boras usually has a good feel for the market. maybe he does for beltre as well. however, if he demanded a contract that nobody will offer, there is no doubt he’ll have to crawl back to the previous offers, if they are even there anymore. i mean, this is part of why boras is so successful…he generally knows what he can get. in this case, he might be right…but as of right now, i’d say there is no chance in hell that anybody offers beltre more than the offers from anaheim and oakland, both of which were rejected.
by guy incognito on Dec 30, 2010 7:00 AM PST up reply actions
Or, if you're Scott Boras, you say that you want a 5 year deal
And then when you get offers, you reject them and demand a 6 year deal. It works both ways.
?
Boras has been consistent with his demands. He wants a 5 (or 6) year deal worth 85-90 million (you’re forgetting this part). Has any team offered him a 5 or 6 year deal worth 85-90 million? If so, and he rejects it and asks for more from the same team, then he is negotiating in bad faith.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
he's not negotiating in bad faith...but
he may not be doing a good job if he drives away the bidders with his demands. he wants 5/85 or higher (or 6 years). the best offers he’s gotten are well below that. unless he thinks he’s going to get others to bid up, he could really hurt beltre in that the teams might move on to other priorities, leaving them with less money to go after beltre with later down the line. fact is, if nobody but us and anaheim are really offering big money, and neither team is interested in hitting his contract goal, waiting can be VERY RISKY.
by guy incognito on Dec 29, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
At the beginning of the offseason, Boras was looking for a 4 or 5 year deal.
$85-90 is pure speculation, as nobody can agree on what it is and Boras hasn’t said anything.
After the Angels and A’s both made an offer, suddenly it goes up to
6 years. I know it isn’t much of an increase, but Boras can negotiate in bad faith just as well as any team.
So if the A's offer Beltre a 5 year 20 million deal, is it bad faith of Boras to reject it?
You should read your own link. There’s nothing in it about 4 years. The most conservative has his demands being north of 5/70. No one has reportedly offered that yet. So there’s no reason that Boras is negotiating in bad faith right now.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Dude, you think that nobody understands what you are getting at
When I think we all understand what you are saying, but I don’t think you understand that we just disagree with you.
My point is that Boras didn’t start asking for a 6 year offer until after he got 5 year offers. If he wanted a 6 year all along, why didn’t we hear about it until then?
If you can’t believe that Boras will negotiate in bad faith, what proof do you have that the FOs are trying to screw Beltre?
Okay, now you're pissing me off.
This is the second time in this fanpost you’ve started a shitstorm because you misread what I wrote. I’ve maintained from the beginning that the teams are smart enough that they aren’t trying to screw over Beltre/Boras, like so many have been wont to do.
I suggest you go back to the beginning of this thread, read this:
The only thing I’m assuming is that the Angels wouldn’t try to screw over Boras by turning around and offering him something like 4/56 after already reportedly offering him 5/70. This is the very definition of negotiating in bad faith and you’ll be lucky if other agents even decide to give you the time of day when you try to sign players in the future. This is the only assumption I’m making about the Angels’ ability to conduct negotiations. And this is an assumption I would make for every. single. team. including the A’s.
and apologize.
````
Boras has been asking for a 5 or 6 year deal for the same total value, around 85-90. For the same total amount, you do realize that 6 years is actually less beneficial for his client than 5 years? It’s also probably more beneficial for the team as well. You are getting hung up over the extra year when it doesn’t even support your argument. How can you argue that he’s negotiating in bad faith when he’s proposing something that’s not good for his own client?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 29, 2010 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
Well put lenscrafters..
not taking sides here, just saying that LC mad a good point in this post.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
My bad (on part of it)
Oops, I mislocated the parent you were responding to. (It seems like you’re getting a lot of misinterpretation of your comments in this fanpost through no fault of your own. Not intentional on my part, sorry.)
So yea, I agree completely that the idea that the Angels will suddenly come back with a much lower offer and the A’s can pick Beltre off then, is crazy talk. I retract the part about the Angels.
However, I still don’t really agree with this:
Since that’s unlikely, there’s really no reason why the A’s should’ve leaked that they’re no longer interested in Beltre. Yet another foolish move.
in the sense that we only have a view of a sliver of what’s going on. There were also rumors that the Angels were out of the negotiations too, but I don’t think they’re necessarily making a mistake. I think this is just a big, strange PR/negotiation game they’re all playing, and I disagree with judging any of the vague reports we see as “foolish moves” because we don’t even know what moves they’re making.
(P.S. Sorry for the relative delay in response. I really would like to engage in a discussion about this, but I’m a little sporadic with my checking of AN)
I don't understand the "driving the price up"
idea. What if we drive it so high he accepts and then were screwed paying his big contract? No thanks
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
The idea would be to
offer as high as you’re willing to pay, and in order for your competition to land the prize, they have to beat that price. The more your competition pays for one player, the less flexibility they have for others. Since we pulled our offer, and this information is public, now the competition knows they have leverage with the prize in negotiations and don’t have to beat our price. Of course, there are hundreds of assumptions in this equation.
So the A's are like pursuing Beltre?
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
I think all of this is translates to yes, the A's are still pursuing 3B
Of which, Beltre’s face remaines on one of the cards on the table until a move is made.
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
It must feel good to be Kouzmanoff right now
“We don’t really want you, but we might ask you to play 150 games for us!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Oh well
and if there was a platoon at 3 shouldn’t we have just kept Encarnacion…? Interesting
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
I believe he and Kouz are both right-handed batters
Traditionally, you’d like to have a lefty/righty combination for a platoon.
I love green because money be green.
Oh okay
that’s what I get for posting before researching
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
Well, there was talk of a lefty/righty platoon at DH
with Encarnacion and Cust…and now they are both gone.
I'm not so heartbroken about
not having EE
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
....considering
we have Matsui and I lof Kouz
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
Kouz seems like a good guy
He signed autographs for my boys after a game in Anaheim and got to chat with him a little. Pretty down-to-earth.
He's our Macedonian Masher
With… only a little bit of mashing, really.
I love green because money be green.
We need to sign Alexander the Great
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
Instead, we're left with lousy Seleucus...
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
The first openly gay baseball player, and he's older than Jamie Moyer!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Definitely
When my cousin and I met him we were the only people there so he sat and asked us how we liked the game, how many we’d been too, where were from and that’s where my Kouz love began..lol
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
The only way to save this miserable offseason is to sign Beltre.
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Dec 29, 2010 3:51 PM PST reply actions
If this offseason was miserable, what was last year's offseason?
I love green because money be green.
by Joey C. on Dec 29, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see how this is a miserable...
Sure there are a lot of question marks on health, but just because we didn’t handcuff ourselves with big FAs doesn’t mean we’re screwed. I’m actually very optimistic for 2011.
somewhat agree--- I like the trades for DDJ and teh Hammer
but trading for one year rentals are misguided to the max if the team won’t be favorites to win the AL West with them in tow.
Gotta get Beltre or get an impact pitcher for that to happen , but those are in even shorter supply.
Is it strange that I take such delight in your misery...?
;)’
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
by mrod on Dec 29, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure how it's quite miserable.
From what I’ve gathered, there was probably one bad move and a whole lot of meh moves. Combined with meh moves at best for the division rivals, it doesn’t seem miserable.
Bad:
Jackson over Cust
Meh:
Everything else except….
Everything Went Better than Expected:
Cliff Lee to the NL
And no Crawford or Werth in the division
Remember the “slegnA were going to get Crawford” talk.
Aren’t we glad that didn’t happen?
we know nothing of the actual offer
it is entirely possible we offered more than anyone, and he still rejected it. at which point, we have literally nothing to be angry about…the team did everything it could to get beltre. if the top offer was 5/70 and we offered 5/75, and they still rejected it, whatever. boras is trying to get every penny he can for beltre, but at some point, he has to sign. the longer he waits, the more he risks either (or both) just dropping interest and moving on. you can refuse to sign for anything less than 5/85, but you need 2 to dance, and if you’ve got no partner willing to accept that number, you’re not going to get a deal done.
Say what?
it is entirely possible we offered more than anyone, and he still rejected it. at which point, we have literally nothing to be angry about
If we offer a guy more money than any other team does, and he still turns us down, how i that “nothing to be angry about”??
That sounds to me like a good reason to be angry.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I think he's talking about being angry at management
As in “there’s nothing more Beane could do so there’s no point in being angry about the way he handled things”
yes
i mean, i’d be pissed as a fan, but i can’t be angry at my team for doing everything possible. which, i suspect, they actually have. if we upped our offer, i see no way we didn’t go above the angels’ offer, because that would make no sense otherwise.
by guy incognito on Dec 30, 2010 7:02 AM PST up reply actions
how the hell is this a miserable offseason??
Lets go Oakland, boom boom boom boom boom
by section119a'sfan on Dec 29, 2010 5:03 PM PST reply actions
No games have been played.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
by DMOAS on Dec 29, 2010 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
It gets more and more miserable every time you don't reply.
by danmerqury on Dec 29, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
This just rediculous. You should worry about something else besides some complete stranger using the reply button, get a life pal
Lets go Oakland, boom boom boom boom boom
by section119a'sfan on Dec 29, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
You should worry about overly-defensive reactions.
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
he's said it multiple times, he needs to worry about himself
Lets go Oakland, boom boom boom boom boom
by section119a'sfan on Dec 29, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
you will probably end up being banned from this website
People ask you to do reasonable things. You respond with insults.
The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 29, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions
I don't understand why he hasn't been bounced already
It’s not like he’s making actual contributions of any kind.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Well, no one said you had to contribute anything with your comments
Otherwise I would’ve been tossed out on my ass years ago.
I love green because money be green.
by Joey C. on Dec 29, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No, but if you're not really contributing, it's perhaps best not to rock the proverbial boat
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
He was, but for some reason it didn't stick.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I'm actually quite lenient about giving second chances
when someone actually bothers to ask and promises to do better. I’m also happy to ban when they don’t do better. He gone. Again. For good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
PL78 banned for good?
Just think of all the ridiculous meta-thread action we’re going to miss around here!!!!!!
…Not
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
No, he's not banned at all.
Section119 is who I was referring to which.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I promise to do better!
wait i haven’t gotten banned yet…. ill just file this away for later
first off: it was a joke dumbs*** and second, who gives a s*** how long you’ve been there? although I will say that being one of the most rec’d posters on a sports blog for the Oakland A’s is pretty impressive to me. it shows me that you’ve attained a level of loserdom that I thought was only imaginable at a Star Trek convention.
keep taking count of your recs on your spreadsheet and one day I promise it will get you laid (fingers crossed).
until then, F*** OFF. by 2pintsofbooze
by designatedforassignment on Dec 31, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
Wait -- the stuff we write here can be cited later????
Oh crap.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Haha
Found that out the hard way, didn’t we Nico?
Often wrong but never in doubt
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
Not really.
I don’t comment on AN like I’m writing a thesis or on trial. I give myself permission to say things like, “God I wish we had NEVER signed Matsui” only to clarify, two weeks later, that I was just a bit tired of his approach the previous five days.
Sometimes I write in a hurry, “from the hip,” or carelessly. If people want to know my “official position” on something, they can always ask and I’ll slow down, think it through carefully, and give my “I’ll stand by this forever” analysis.
No biggie to be inconsistent sometimes because you fired off a half-baked thought or feeling on a fan site, only to reconsider later when you really got down to “official analysis.”
For me, with Beltre, my true stance is what I’ve said most of the time: 5/75 is an overpay I can get behind, and 5/70 is more what I think he’s worth paying.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm just giving you a hard time, Nico
I enjoy most of your comments here, I just thought it was an excellent catch by lenscrafters. And you have to appreciate the humor in it.
Often wrong but never in doubt
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
Yeah, I do.
I just don’t take it all so seriously. “ZOMG, I contradicted myself!!!111” But I most certainly did.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
why would the A's announce that they are out?
They could pretend to be in and drive up price for slegna.
by gambler on Dec 29, 2010 5:42 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Maybe they're pretending to be out and hoping the slegna drive down the price to their level!
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 29, 2010 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
Jim Hendry has been known to make some less than smart deals in the past.
I wonder how much it would cost to get Aramis Ramirez.
That rug really tied the room together...
by Streams Of Whiskey on Dec 29, 2010 7:44 PM PST reply actions
The only acceptable answer is "nothing but salary relief"
he was really, really bad in 2010, and is making a lot of money (15MM).
The Cubs would have to eat salary to move him.
Ouch
It hurts because it’s true
Often wrong but never in doubt
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
He can't be traded without his consent.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I'm gonna say it.....
I don’t want him, and definitely not at $15mil per year as I don’t feel he’ll earn his monies.
His bat is not good enough to pay $15mil+ for.
I’d rather save the money to extend people (perhaps Willingham if we can keep him healthy), and trade for an Ian Stewart-esque player.
Beltre is exactly the sort of player I don’t want to cheer for. He fits the slegna too perfectly IMO.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
if not beltre then who???
that is my question??? what is billy beane thinking of now? open to any ideas
by sports with steve on Dec 29, 2010 10:28 PM PST reply actions
Other than upgrading the 5th starter I'm stumped on this one. The team is composed of a bunch of
1.5-3.5 WAR players who aren’t quite good enough to be projected to win 90-95 games but also aren’t bad enough to easily upgrade on. I’m just hoping for them getting lucky one of the next 3-4 years.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 30, 2010 4:51 AM PST up reply actions
I just hate i posted this before JP and mine has not a single comment..I am gonna go have a beer!@ (Mine was a fanshot not a fanpost)
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Ya, fanshots don't seem to get a fair shake
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 30, 2010 4:52 AM PST up reply actions
Gotta scroll down too far.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
It's not that.
It’s that once you’re on a FanPost page, the FanShots no longer appear in the sidebar.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I'm seeing a lot of something I don't like in this thread
People seem to think that because they are sure in their opinions, they need to present them as fact (e.g. “get it through your heads…” “or you need to realize this…”).
I understand we all have strong convictions, but when you present opinions like this, it destroys any valid discussion…
All I can say about stats is…
SCOTT BROSIUS!!
by stranahanahan on Dec 30, 2010 10:27 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Is this your opinion or a fact?
when you present opinions like this, it destroys any valid discussion…
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 30, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
yeah yeah yeah
I meant, IMO
All I can say about stats is…
SCOTT BROSIUS!!
by stranahanahan on Dec 30, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
You need to realize this and get it through your head: this is nothing new
Last of the Ninth - Photography
ha
I know, I just see it a lot in here. It’s just gotten to me lately…
All I can say about stats is…
SCOTT BROSIUS!!
by stranahanahan on Dec 30, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Solution:
Let’s get another Keith Ginter/Jake Fox
HA!
by RememberDurazo on Dec 30, 2010 11:58 AM PST reply actions
Keith Ginter....ugh
now that deal was a bright spot for Beane…ouch. Nelson Cruz would look pretty good on the A’s right now. Then again, so would Andre Ethier and a bunch of other dudes. This is what scares me the most when discussion about trading Carter/Greene/Taylor pops up…
Nelson Cruz was waived by the team that traded for him
At least the A’s got something out of the bargain.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
not much
and the brewers, wow, the brewers hardly have a stellar track record when it comes to palyer management…Yes, they look like even bigger idiots than us, for that, but WE are the ones that got stuck with Keith Ginter…..Keith frick’n Ginter, man!
Brewers traded him with Carlos Lee to the Rangers for Francisco Cordero and 3 other guys
The Rangers took him off the 40-man but then he cleared waivers and came back to be an All-Star.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 1, 2011 5:41 AM PST up reply actions
Rosenthal mentions a backup or platoon partner for Kouz...
The problem with this is that our roster is full on offense. If we get another 3B but keep Kouz we would have to drop a player (likely Jackson) and I just don’t see that as a possibility.
What is more likely is that we will continue to look for a Kouz replacement. Or, if his back is the concern, we will look for a more seasoned AAA 3B for a potential callup if Kouz goes down. I guess they aren’t sold with Rosales, Tolleson or other guys filling in at 3B for any length of time.
Also, it is possible that the whole report is bogus, but I prefer to give Rosenthal a little credit.
I'm not even a Beltre fan, but this sucks.
I see no options to put us over the edge now, other than emptying the already barren minor league system, and I really don’t see us getting anything good that way. We better get real freaking lucky this year. We’re due.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
boston doesnt want beltre and thats why youks is playing 3rd base
by sports with steve on Jan 1, 2011 1:10 AM PST up reply actions
FWIW (quite possibly nothing) there's a rumor
going around the net that the Rangers have agreed to sign Beltre for 6 years and $96 million.
http://www.piodeportes.com/Content.asp?cid=2821
“Enero 2, 2011 9:06 AM
BeltréSegún reporta José Luís Montilla del portal Piodeportes.com, el antesalista Dominicano Adrian Beltré alcanzo un acuerdo por 96 millones y seis años con los Rangers de Texas, Según fuente la cual se mantendrá en el anonimato, la firma se llevó a cabo cerca de la madrugada de hoy.
La posible firma se estará haciendo oficial hasta tanto no se complete el examen de rigor(Fisico)."
If true, this makes the Rangers the clear favorite in the AL west
But wow am I glad Beane didn’t commit that type of money to try and keep him away from the rivals.
If that is true, then good luck to Texas after the next year or two
It’d benefit him offensively there much more than in Anaheim or Oakland, so if he has a couple strong years there in 2011 and 2012 I’m sure we’d see no end to the number of people who think he’d do the same thing here – kind of like we got from some with Vladimir Guerrero, even though his second half last year was awful.
But if the 6 years thing IS true, damn am I glad to have avoided that.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Apparently, the Rangers just can't get enough of
paying aging 3Bmen $16M/year. Why do it once when you can do it twice? At the same time! Not that I believe this deal; it sounds like a lame rumor with barely a casual relationship to the truth.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
After the next year or two, Texas will eat the losses and subsidize it with free production from their (much better) farm system
Or, perhaps they won’t and the Angels will go back to dominating the division.
Doesn’t help us A’s fans none.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
The games still have to be played
I’m not going to write anything off over the next few years based on what may or may not happen right now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Well I look forward to you not commenting on next season until May then
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Jan 3, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
MLBtr hasn't reported it or even mentioned it.
That’s a big red flag that this is BS.
But if it is true, I think that’s awesome, because its a massive overpay.
This is now on ESPN Deportes
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/news/story?id=1200125&s=bei&type=story
A rough translation of the second and third paragraphs:
Two media of Dominican Republic reported Sunday on the negotiations. The newspaper The Caribbean reported that Beltré and Texas would complete in the next days a pact for six years and $90 million dollars, while the place Piodeportes.com said that the contract was a fact and would report $96 million to Beltré.
“Still they continue speaking, they have not completed the details, but an agreement seems imminent”, the source said of ESPNdeportes.com. Another source indicated that the contract probably will be for five years and an option for the 2016.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
If 96MM is the money on Beltre
I’m very glad the Rangers are signing it.
Its not a HUGE upgrade, and the Rangers could’ve made it MUCH cheaper than what they’ll be paying Beltre.
The question is, if it turns out to be 6/90
then do the folks who wanted 5/75 think the A’s should have offered 6/90? How about the folks who advocated 5/80? Personally, as an “I’m ok with 5/75” guy, I say no. 5/75 was already a stretch for the A’s, so I’m not in favor of repeating that annual for 6 years.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, club option I would
“Thanks for the 5 years, and…No option for you!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
no beltre. no no no no
If this story is true, then I’m overjoyed at the A’s decision to pull whatever offer they had and be done with this guy. It’s part “hey doesn’t want to play here and we’d have to overpay to get him” and another part “i do not want to overpay for a guy who I just don’t believe will continue to be valuable for the length of time we’d have him under contract” – read the stuff about 3b skills sticking around longer, but, I’m just not sold on this guy and his (or his agents) thought about playing for the A’s just seals the deal. Good riddance, Beltre – we’ll take our changes on Kouz / Parker / whoever, spend the money we’d have wasted on you and do something different with it. I don’t even care what they decide to do with the cash- just glad it’s not being used for signing Beltre…
"I saw a curveball, that’s about it," Rangers’ manager Ron Washington said. "You can’t take anything away from the kid; he went seven innings, but it wasn’t any shutout stuff." - Ron Washington on Gio's performance and the 7 k's.
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