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Around SBN: Drug Testing, Alistair Overeem & UFC 146's Potential Legacy

Glass Half Full And Rising?

"Guess where my left hand is?"

It has been, by most A's fans accounts, a frustrating off-season. The search for an upgrade to a truly woeful COF started, and then continued, with the addition of "pretty good player" David DeJesus -- and that has remained the highlight. Then the A's made an offer to Adrian Beltre that he appeared not to notice. Then the A's non-tendered Jack Cust and started talking earnestly to more expensive DHs who were likely not as good. Meanwhile, the Angels set their sights on Carl Crawford and the Rangers decided to go "all in" to keep Cliff Lee. Then Hisashi Iwakuma's agent went, or stayed, insane and that was that with Iwakuma. Then everyone who might seemed interested in Beltre got a different 3Bman, but Beltre still didn't appear to notice the A's offer -- still the only one that has actually been made to him -- until the A's finally threw up my lunch their arms and took it off the table.

But now...

Star-divide

Crawford is signed, and he's not an Angel, and rumor has it that the blockbuster signing of Scott Downs, Pretty Good Middle Reliever, might have maxed out their payroll. Lee surprised everyone and spurned both the Rangers and the Yankees, to join the Phillies and co-ace with the man for whom he was traded away, Roy Halladay.

Beltre has still been made an offer by all of one team -- the Oakland A's -- and while agent Scott Boras claims there are "about 5 teams interested," Boras is hardly the most reliable source here and the fact remains: Exactly one team has actually made Beltre a konwn offer and it's the A's, who also are among the few teams with a lot of money still available to spend in the free agent market.

Today's signing of Hideki Matsui to a contract of just $4,5M constitutes one of the few scenarios where the A's did not necessarily come out behind on the "jettison Cust" fiasco -- Matsui will arguably produce as well as Cust in 2011, at a price right around what Cust would have commanded had the A's tendered him. So a lateral move, yes, but at least not one where the A's get worse by spending more money -- which is how things were looking for a while.

In the same way things couldn't have been looking a whole lot bleaker two weeks ago, right now things couldn't be looking a whole lot better for the A's relative to their division rivals. I believe things have turned around just enough that the A's will, in the coming weeks, either sign Beltre or trade for a COFer, in order to elevate themselves into "you have to worry about us" territory in the AL West. And that's really all we can ask.

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Sign Beltre for 3/54

I’m also fine with both Harden and Duke in the ’pen.

by TBRMKane on Dec 14, 2010 8:20 PM PST reply actions  

I dunno if you saw my previous comment

But if you’re gonna give him 3/54, then adding 2/16 for the final 2 years shouldn’t be a big deal, he wouldn’t have to do much to be worth $8M/year for the final 2 years…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

No!!!

$21M/year? 3/54 and 4/65 don’t work. Beltre wants a 5 year deal — that the enticement Oakland has to convince him to sign here and not elsewhere — and he is flat out not worth the annual salary Lee and Crawford commanded. 5/70 – 5/75 is where I think a deal actually gets done.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions  

The thing is

Are the A’s even still pursuing Beltre?

by TBRMKane on Dec 14, 2010 8:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Nope.

It’s on Beltre to pursue them now.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Pretty much

I mean if the Angels offered him 4/60 he might take it over an A’s 5-year offer, but I don’t know that they’re planning to. No other team has actually stepped up and said, “We want you; here’s an offer.” Oakland’s offer is starting to look good, and a little bump in it is starting to look like, “What are you waiting for?”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

negotiating *in* private

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 14, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it's in Boras' best interest to blab every offer

(at the moment I suspect he’s blabbing a bunch of fictional interest). He’s undoubtedly the source of the publicizing of Oakland’s 5/64 offer, since the A’s do not comment on FA dealings in any way.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 8:59 PM PST up reply actions  

?

The A’s may not comment officially but they have no problem leaking information about negotiations.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 14, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions  

True -- I admit I have no idea how that offer got out publicly

Can only guess there.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions  

The MLB TV show this morning

indicated that he is looking for a 5 year 85-90 million dollar deal. That seems way too much to me.

"Life is tough .... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne

by 94065 on Dec 15, 2010 7:13 AM PST up reply actions  

and this is why he's not signed yet

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 7:15 AM PST up reply actions  

But he is the last big bat left in FA

and the recent market signings have done nothing to drive the down. He will get overpaid! The question is by who??? Can we afford for him to be bought by the Angels or Rangers?

"Life is tough .... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne

by 94065 on Dec 15, 2010 7:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Isn’t Beltre more of a “Big Glove” than a “Big Bat”?. This guy isn’t going to anchor our offense for years to come. Personally, I think I’d rather overspend on a 2-year deal for Magglio to play RF/DH Platoon w/ Sweeney/Matsui.

1. Crisp
2. Dejesus
3. Barton
4. Magglio
5. Matsui
6. Suzuki
7. Kouz
8. Ellis
9. Pennington

Extensions to current players. Extend Brett Anderson in a couple years, similar to a Felix deal, etc.

by Colorado Fan on Dec 15, 2010 8:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Is Magglio a big bat anymore?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 8:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Much Bigger than Beltre

And you don’t need to watch Beltre struggle years 3-5… Maybe Stephen Parker (or someone else) will be ready to take over 3B by 2013.

Maggs OPS+:
2007: 166
2008: 126
2009: 111
2010: 130

Beltre OPS+:
2007: 112
2008: 108
2009: 83
2010: 141

Beltre really turned it up last year… Wonder ($$$) why?
2010

by Colorado Fan on Dec 15, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Health

will be the key with Mags. But it might be a gamble the A’s need to make if they want to have a chance to win.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 15, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

And I'd like to be reincarnated as Hugh Hefner

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 15, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Is he really happy?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 8:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, I betcha he is

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 15, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

That's a recipe for not getting anything done.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 14, 2010 9:04 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

strongly rec'ed

This isn’t a career fair this is MLB free agency.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 14, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I think I'll wait until the whole thing plays out to reply to these comments.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

But again, Beane has no idea how to deal with marquee FAs

We shouldn’t expect him to actually know how these negotiations go…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

He came close to a Giambi FA signing

I would imagine he is savvy enough. I personally read between the lines of Lew and Billy’s coments about the oakland facility is a turd that they can’t polish enough to attract a marquee FA (commenting on the old stadium, or crappy outfield w/football season etc etc)

by hishnik on Dec 14, 2010 9:39 PM PST up reply actions  

A) Giambi wasn't a Free Agent and B) He lost which gets you nothing

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 14, 2010 9:49 PM PST up reply actions  

yes, and yes

he was a free agent, making a real shot and failing is better than just letting them walk

by Sir Realist on Dec 14, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

no he was an extension candidate and there is no tangible difference between the two

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 12:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I think

what Sir was talking about is Beane’s “attempt” to sign Giambi when he eventually got 9 figures from the Yankees. I could be wrong though

"He who lives on hope will die fasting" Benjamin Franklin was a fool

"If we are thinking playoffs, why not look towards the mountaintop"

I like my quote better

by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 15, 2010 12:12 AM PST up reply actions  

right they were trying to sign one of their own guys to an extension.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 12:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

They weren’t dealing with a Free Agent whose only experience of the A’s was from the visitor’s clubhouse.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:42 AM PST up reply actions  

If he was not then currently under contract he was a FA, by definition.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 5:24 AM PST up reply actions  

well they started negotiations when he was under our control

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh?
4/65 million dollar deal to beltre sounds good…

No!!!
$21M/year?

Faulty calculator?

by elcroata on Dec 14, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

nico was distracted by a goat

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 7:07 AM PST up reply actions  

No, but perhaps heavy antihistamines and a clogged head were to blame

Or I’m just an idiot.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 7:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Well,

If nobody else offers beltre, then the 5/64 deal would get it done right?

Lets go Oakland, boom boom boom boom boom

by section119a'sfan on Dec 14, 2010 8:39 PM PST reply actions  

One would think

Though I would imagine there would be a “face-saving” / “we know our offer was one where we could go higher” bump to at least 5/67.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 8:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would we bid against ourselves?

If Beltre really can’t get any offers approaching the dollars/years the A’s offered (and withdrew), then the value should come down, not go up. Too many people are buying into the Boras psych job IMO.

by andyinfremont on Dec 14, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Well it might be appropriate to bump your offer a little if you think it'll seal a deal.

There’s no reason to make negotiations any more difficult than they already are. You don’t want the other side to feel like they left money on the table.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 14, 2010 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

but if he has no other suitors

i don’t see why we bump up our offer. fact is, he and boras gambled, and they may have lost. unless we face real other competition, we should offer him LESS money, not more.

by guy incognito on Dec 14, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the market is pretty well defined for a player of Beltre's stature, and he and Boras know that.

If he doesn’t get the cash from the A’s he’ll get it somewhere else, and sooner rather than later. If there’s a chance to lock him up there is no point in pissing about.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 14, 2010 11:17 PM PST up reply actions  

if this is actually true (or has a reasonably high probability of being true), i totally agree

however, i’m not so sure about it. the angels seem to have serious financial issues. the rangers could afford him, but might have trouble moving young (and i think vlad is a better DH option for them). the sox will be moving youk to 3rd. the yankees have that a-rod character over there. i just don’t see anybody else able to offer anything reasonable. if that’s the case, we should be wary of bidding against ourselves. if 5/50 is the best he can get, he’ll take it. we’re not the big market teams, so saving a few million/year can be very useful…again, so long as it seems unlikely anyone else will nab him.

by guy incognito on Dec 14, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with this. No need to bid against ourselves. But we also want

Beltre to feel good about taking the deal, unlike Cust 2010. We want him to feel wanted.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Ha

We are the only team showing Beltre love for two seasons in a row. He’s using us. I’m not good with that.

by Colorado Fan on Dec 15, 2010 8:28 AM PST up reply actions  

except for Philly and Boston but go ahead and just make shit up.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm all for a little optimism

If the A’s could somehow get Beltre signed up and swing a trade for decent hitting right fielder I’d be pretty satisfied with this off season. Heck, even managing one of those things wouldn’t be too bad.

by OkayJay81 on Dec 14, 2010 8:42 PM PST reply actions  

Nice to see a more cheerful post on here

Reading lonestarball’s blog todayalso helped.

by hishnik on Dec 14, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought the Lee and halladay trades were separate of each other

I thought they could of had both but wanted to replenish their farm system and decided to trade lee.

WTF GEREN?!?!?!

by robbo650 on Dec 14, 2010 8:43 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

They happened so close together I figure one begat the other.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Basically.

It was x flips y flips z flips michael taylor. Sigh.

by danmerqury on Dec 14, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I hear he's the A's 3rd best prospect

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I like the signing, especially for the price tag.

Matsui is a good hitter, and I agree it’s a lateral move for them. That’s well worth the opportunity cost associated with trying to upgrade to Berkman.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Dec 14, 2010 8:48 PM PST reply actions  

Statistcally it's a lateral move

but when it’s all said and done I’ll wager Matsui players a bigger role winning games with the A’s than Cust did. Beyond that, I think he’s got a ton of personality and will be a fan favorite (provided he hits!).

"Life is tough .... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne

by 94065 on Dec 15, 2010 7:20 AM PST up reply actions  

plus

if we make it to the playoffs the extra Japanese press corps could go a long way for the A’s marketing in Japan .

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Dec 15, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions  

unknown

we DID piss off Don Nomura, but he brought a pocket calculator to his Calc II final, so not the A’s fault.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Dec 15, 2010 8:06 AM PST up reply actions  

How is this a lateral move... statistically or other wise?

If you take their OPS for the last 3 years you get Matsui with an average of 830 and Cust at 820… you could say that’s close enough to call it a statistical dead heat but when you factor in Cust has struck out twice as much per plate appearance over that time (31% to 15%) it seems pretty clear Matsui is an upgrade.

by sactownbull on Dec 15, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

um...

Matsui OPS+ 108, 123, 124
cust OPS+ 129, 104, 128

but OK, strickouts

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

OBP is worth twice as much as SLG.

OPS+ isn’t as accurate as something like wRC+, where Cust beats Matsui easily.

Matsui: 114, 131, 125
Cust: 132, 112, 138

by danmerqury on Dec 15, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

really?

i always thought they were close enough to be considered the same. I just use for reference what happens to be open at the time.

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Really

OPS+ just scales OPS to average. OPS has a lot of flaws, primarily that OBP >> OPS.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 15, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

It should

I’m not sure every site actually does.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 15, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions  

.

baseball-reference.com ops+ calculation explanation

am i incorrect?

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, I see.

Yeah, BRef’s OPS+ does adjust for league and park, but those are minor problems compared to the OBP SLG thing. If not wOBA, a better version would be 2*OBP + SLG.

by danmerqury on Dec 15, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

never really thought about it

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Solution:

5/68, The Beltre Athletics of Oakland playing in Google Ballpark at Jack London Square by 2014. Done.

The artist formerly known as HigherPie.

by vegAN ryAN on Dec 14, 2010 8:49 PM PST reply actions  

The way things are going is it really plausible a new stadium for ANY player on the roster is in the cards

I mean Swisher was given his contract extension to be the team leader for the Fremont ballpark…..

by hishnik on Dec 14, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, no

But Beane can sunshine pump it all he wants!

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

True

Part of his job is selling a free agent on the team.

by hishnik on Dec 14, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Google?

Really? Why not Facebook Field?

by jeffro on Dec 14, 2010 9:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

That is SO yesterday

Twitter Pavillion. "Only seats 140 but we’re always sold out!"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Double Tweet!

The artist formerly known as HigherPie.

by vegAN ryAN on Dec 14, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Well now I look like an idiot.

Thanks Nico.

The artist formerly known as HigherPie.

by vegAN ryAN on Dec 14, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

way to selectively delete your first post!!

i won’t tell if you don’t

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 14, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

It was in the best interests of humor.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I only do it about once/year

I figure in 18 days everything will be my fault, so what the heck?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

okey dokey

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 14, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I had a different response, but I deleted it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

[Insert explosion of poutrage here]

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 14, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd for "poutrage"

because that is awesome

All flash no substance hair twirler.

by pam5981 on Dec 15, 2010 12:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Agree with your assessment, Nico.

Interesting that Stiglich in his latest Tweet insinuates that “Seems Athletics are more open to trades than earlier this winter.”

It’s obvious what the move is from here:

1) Either a power bat imported to 3b via free agency (Adrian Beltre)

or

2) Power bat added to RF via trade

In scenario 2, I think Mike Cameron might be a decent target. Good defender with some pop and some speed. Maybe do an H-rod/Ziegler + C-level prospect for Cameron and his salary deal?

Also with scenario 2, I think the A’s would maintain a ton of financial flexibility going into the 2011 trade deadline.

I think this might be the best of course of action going forward in the very immediate future: with Matsui at DH, marginal upgrades in LF and RF from fairly reasonable trades (DeJesus/Cameron), added bullpen/rotation depth (McCarthy + possibly Duchscherer/Harden) and a nice bench (Powell, Rosales, CoJax, Sweeney).

This isn’t the world beating scenario, but it’s a fairly safe play at this point in the game in my opinion, and might benefit the team if it can project on two things happening around the middle of the 2011 season:

1) at least one bat from the farm being capable of making an impact mid-season (among candidates Taylor, Carter, Cardenas, Brown, Donaldson, Weeks) and/or

2) a few high-priced vet bats being available for little more than salary relief at the trade deadline in July: Sizemore, Berkman (if Cards are out), Kelly Johnson, Aramis Ramirez, etcetera.

By spending a bit on depth on defense right now, but not overcommiting to any one player, and saving a good chunk for acquisitions during the season, the A’s could be in a good position if their pitching holds up until July, especially if LAA and the Rangers don’t make any earth-shaking improvements in the meantime.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Dec 14, 2010 8:54 PM PST reply actions  

Question: Is Cameron, at this stage of his career,

better than Sweeney? If the A’s do go the trade route, I think they should “think bigger” (more in prime), e.g., Matt Kemp, or PT’s favorite human being, Luke Scott.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

No Scott

Leave him close to DC so he can take the Marc train down and ask Obama to go to his filing cabinet and produce a real birth certificate – just like every real American can. I know I care mine at all times.

by rockabye roy on Dec 14, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

i have a feeling his career is over

The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler

by Jessse on Dec 14, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Probably. What about Luke Scott's?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly, I'd probably vote for that ticket ... to play RF.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriosly doubt it.

If that Brett Myers character can continue after domestic violence there’s no reason Scott shouldn’t also continue for simply being politically gullible.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 5:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Not to mention Bobby Cox who'll probably make the Hall of Fame

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:10 AM PST up reply actions  

on which count?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't really understand this comment...

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 16, 2010 3:30 AM PST up reply actions  

"Domestic abuse charges"
In May 1995, police were called to the home of Bobby and Pamela Cox in northwest Atlanta, Georgia. Pamela Cox told the police that her husband struck her. Bobby Cox was charged under Georgia’s Domestic Violence Act12 with simple battery. He was accused of punching his wife and pulling her hair.13 In a court settlement, Pamela Cox was instructed by the judge to attend a battered women’s program and Bobby Cox was told to complete violence counseling and an alcohol evaluation.14 The criminal charges against Bobby Cox were dismissed, and he was not punished by Major League Baseball or the Atlanta Braves for the incident.

Link

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 16, 2010 7:28 AM PST up reply actions  

did not know this.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 16, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

with the injury history

cameron is a perfect candidate for the A’s

Is it spring yet?

by eastcoasta'sfan on Dec 15, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Shouldn't require that much to get Cameron

I bet the Red Sox would dump his salary for a song if they could.

It’s not the worst idea ever, although it does make the actual worst idea ever— the tendering of a contract to Conor Jackson— look even dumber than it already did.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'd rather go after Drew, personally.

What do you think that would require the A’s to give up?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would they want to unload Drew? He is absolutely one of their three best OFers next year.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 14, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

luxury tax?

one can always dream…

by Blicks on Dec 15, 2010 5:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Beane won't want to pay/play Cameron over his boy Conor Jackson.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 14, 2010 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Jackson may get injured and not leave Beane a Choice

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

We can always hope...

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

F that.

I hope Jackson recovers and puts up some nice numbers.

Valley Fever is a messed up disease. The fungus that causes it grows in my backyard, so when I dig in my backyard, I have to wear a facemask so that I don’t inhale its’ spores.

I seriously don’t need a year on the DL and a year of sucking just because I inhaled some damn fungal spores!

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2010 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

When I moved to Bakersfield in 1998, the first thing I saw on my porch was a black widow spider.

After I calmed down about that, the landlord then told me about how many people had died of Valley Fever over the previous two years in Kern County. And I was like, “What hell have I landed in!” Don’t get me wrong, I liked Bakersfield and defend it against all its detractors (who say, “my car broke down in Bakersfield once”), and I’m all for Jackson’s full recovery for a rotten fungus and a 3+ WAR year!

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 15, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

You ever go to East Bakersfield

I was there once… let’s just say that area is interesting…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I did.

There are some great places to eat, though I can’t say I ever would’ve been able (or willing) to find them on my own.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 15, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll be back in Bako

come the end of Jan!

Gonna go see Social Distortion play there =)

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 15, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Johnny Carson's best line ever...

Bakersfield… Gateway to Barstow

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

IMO

that’s a FAR to hefty price to pay for Cameron. Not only is he a serious health risk, his production is on a steep downslide. Maybe a couple of C level prospects at the MOST but, I don’t know that we’d even want him. As Nico said, I think we have in-house candidates that could perform at Cameron’s level of production.

by oakballnack on Dec 14, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Cameron is old and coming off a poor season

Think he’s got one last hurrah in him before he turns to dust?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 14, 2010 10:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm thinking a part-time role sharing time with Ryan Sweeney

He might do a little better in that kind of role. Andruw Jones might be the same.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Jones has had like 1 good month over the past decade...

Not interested.

I’m at least willing to hear someone out on why Cameron isn’t toast.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 14, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

He was 1.8 WAR this season in like half a season's worth of PA

In 2009 he was a hair worse than league average, but only because the Rangers kept DHing him.

2008 was the only truly awful season in his career.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually have a piece in the hopper about signing him that I was working on in early November and never got done.

its weird because he keeps underperforming his xBABIP

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 12:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Hope you get a chance to finish it before he signs!

I’ve entertained the thought in my head, but have been weary to give a real opinion on here until I know more…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:43 AM PST up reply actions  

i was looking at xBABIP - BABIP players for some luck rebounds, which is where i got the Idea

but he always underperforms his xBABIP it seems.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 12:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Punishment for spelling ANDREW with a U

Where do you find xBABIP, btw?

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 1:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I used to complain about the U,

but someone explained to me that’s the normal spelling in Dutch, and he’s from Curaçao.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

BTW, how the hell does he put up the stats he does with those BABIPs?!?

A .239 BABIP and yet he managed a .364 wOBA last year.
I would say he’s definitely a rebound candidate, even though those were pretty good numbers, which included an easily career low LD rate…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 1:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Jones hit .256/.373/.558 against LHP last year.

I’ll take it.

Pre-post edit: holy shit, he’ll only be 34 next year. Where has he been the past three years?

by NateHST on Dec 15, 2010 2:46 AM PST up reply actions  

being fat.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 15, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

The last time you said the A's were the only team that had made an offer to Beltre,

I asked for a link saying as much and didn’t get it. What is the citation for this?

There’s as much difference between “only one team has made an offer” and “only one team that we know of has made an offer” as there is between “A’s outbid Rangers for Iwakuma” and “A’s may have outbid Rangers for Iwakuma.” If you’re speculating, you need to say that.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 9:01 PM PST reply actions  

I'm saying "known offer"

No other offer has been made known. And since it’s in Boras’ interest to publicize any interest beyond one team that has now said, “Never mind,” I doubt very much an offer has been made but kept quiet.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:10 PM PST up reply actions  

People thought the same thing about the mystery team with Lee

Just because no other known offers are out there, it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

by King Billy Royal on Dec 14, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, then, don't say "only one team has made an offer", full stop

It’s still sitting right there in the last line of the first paragraph.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I have to side with PT on this one. I think you really have to be more careful with the wording of your post.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 12:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I think instead of going all PL78 about it, I'll just say, "OK."

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 7:58 AM PST up reply actions  

bummer, cuz there is a serious lack of meta around here right now.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

heh

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 16, 2010 3:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm chuckling to myself over this response.

Not the subject matter, but your phrasing. You “…have to side with PT on this one…”. Yeah, like you and PT agreeing is such a rare event. LOL!

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

agreed – much of this is speculation. I wouldn’t begin to presume that we’re privy to anything more than a fraction of the actual goings on in major league front offices right now. MLBtraderumors.com has the word “rumors” in it for a reason.

by oakballnack on Dec 14, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice post, Nico.

I agree with Taj on plan 2.
And how great is it to steal all of the Asian American fans away from the Giants with Matsui! Great story on his press conference on the A’s website.

Go A’s!

"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." -Jessica Rabbit

by A'sfansince1970 on Dec 14, 2010 9:06 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

OK, Scott.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Don't you dare call me Luke Scott.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 14, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

whatever scott borass

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 14, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

While I'm thinking you're kidding and really just meant to insult Boras,

this is really not cool. I’d suggest clarifying your intent.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:13 PM PST up reply actions  

yes...it's a joke

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

in retrospect, it's a complicated joke. perhaps only makes sense in my mind...

nico starts with scott. lenscrafters brings up luke scott. i turned it into scott borass.

too many levels. i certainly meant no insult by it but i understand why it didn’t play well.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 7:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Wear it, people

Wow, dfa and pt are running over people these days. Obvious jokes (stm72) needing clarification… calling out “bad wording” that needs correction in posts (Nico). Come on, people. Wear it.

by Colorado Fan on Dec 15, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

No worries. I knew it was a joke.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

kewl

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

5/80 is still really pushing it though

Unless it’s frontloaded and ownership is comfortable with the budget being ~$80M the next couple years…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Nope.

It will increase the payroll by less than 5 million over what it was last year. This is counting Matsui, who’s obviously coming off the books after next year.

Even with extensions to Cahill and Gio over the next few years, the A’s have an easily manageable budget. Money is not the issue at all.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 14, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Especially since, after '11,

they could let Ellis, DeJesus, Matsui, Crisp, and CoJax all walk in FA, saving almost $25M, and fill all five of those spots with some combo of the “Sacto Starting Eight,” all of whom currently have 40-man slots.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

True, but wouldn't that team likely be terrible?

You’ve basically got no outfield unless Corey Brown and Michael Taylor both come through.

The A’s need to extend both Crisp and DeJesus, IMO. I’d practically nail one to the clubhouse door for the first guy who signs it, and strongly consider extending the other guy once the season is over, depending on the performance of prospects.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:17 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Nail an extension, that is

I don’t mean nail the player to the clubhouse door…

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

For as much as we complain about the previous medical staff...

Fans using nail guns on the players ain’t helping much.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 14, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

but it would be entertaining

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 15, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

hahaha

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

thanks for the clarification! I was trying to figure out how that would work...

What? Scare the other guy into signing?

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 12:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, you're supposed to nail DeJesus to a cross,

not a door.

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

hahaha

love

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 15, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd prefer DeJesus over Crisp (injury concerns, mostly)

although I’d love to see an extension for both. Crisp seemed to love it here last yeah, so hopefully he doesn’t go bolting for greener pastures like every other damn free agent.

by danmerqury on Dec 14, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Yup

Both seem like the kind of guys whose stats will continue through their mid 30s…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions  

former Royals FTW!!

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 14, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Can Jeff Francoeur be far behind?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:15 AM PST up reply actions  

shush you

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 7:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I would seriously find another team.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

or the GUBA

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 15, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Not kidding

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 16, 2010 3:31 AM PST up reply actions  

what about over easy?

or just plain fried?

Is it spring yet?

by eastcoasta'sfan on Dec 15, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

CF free agent options will continue to be weak and we don’t have great internal options. I expect every effort to be made to retain those guys.

by DrDoom on Dec 14, 2010 11:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't want to give either one an extension.

Offer them both arbitration after this year. Neither one will accept arby, because both will be worthy of multi-year deals as the only potential CFs on the market next offseason. Collect the four draft picks they’ll garner, which is going to be about ~$6M in bonuses to prospects. Gotta budget for that, of course.

The market for DH has (correctly) evolved to the point where you can sign a good hitter on a one-year deal annually for about $3-5M. So, next offseason, you bring back Matsui on a one-year deal, or his equivalent in terms of price/performance.

Carter takes over full-time in left. Taylor and Corey Brown both make the big club and compete for the CF job. Neither of those guys will have anything to prove in AAA by ‘11 – it’ll be time to sink or swim. Sweeney is the full-time RF or sharing with Taylor.

By my plan, the rest of the team is so cheap going forward, you can give Beltre the $17M a year he wants ($85M) and seal the deal. And remember, there is not one elite free agent that you want the A’s to pursue over the next two offseasons. Not one.

This is more of a topic for a fanpost, but basically I hate the entire idea of signing a player – any player – to an extension once he’s at free agency, or on the brink of it. It completely flies in the face of my strongest principle for running a small-market club, which would be, “Extract maximum value from every player in your system.” Here’s what I mean by that, through examples:

1. A great pitcher just finished two outstanding seasons, and is about to become expensive. He will never be more valuable than he is now, because he’s healthy, cheap, and under control for 3-4 more seasons. Trade him now if a great offer exists. Haren, Mulder, and one day Brett Anderson.

2. A near-free agent is about to finish a healthy, productive season and will be an asset on the FA market. You could either a.) Let him walk, and collect two high picks, or b.) sign him to a market-value extension, at which point he will have no surplus value. So you should let him walk and collect the picks.

3. An elite free agent is on the market. Your team finished in the bottom 15, and you can sign this free agent at basically zero talent cost to your team (the No. ~70 overall pick). You sign him, and invest as much as ~25-33% of your payroll in him.

These are my guiding principles for how I would run a small-market franchise. I am consistent with them. They are admittedly somewhat risky. I think low-budget teams have to take risks, and I like my risks better than the ones other teams take.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Following up on point #3:

If you continually traded your elite arb-eligible players, and collect draft picks on your above-average free agents rather than extending them, you could afford to have two stars that were signed in free agency on your small-market team.

Two $17-20M players, surrounded by a team of pre-arb guys. That’s basically my ideal small-market team. And I only like about 1-2 free agents every year. I didn’t like any of them last year. I don’t like any for the next two years. So this year, if rest of the A’s team were all $400K pre-arb guys, it would be like surrounding them with Crawford and Beltre.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice plan....now if we could just get the FA to take our money

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

We never offer above market value

We offer “tied for the best deal”…and then act disappointed that no one takes.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Hmmm...so we need to perpetually overpay the FA in your plan?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Until there's a new stadium, yeah

Until there’s a new stadium, I’d perpetually overpay 1-2 extremely well-chosen** elite players in FA.

**This don’t hit the market every year. I didn’t like any of them last year, and I don’t like any for the next two years.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

You know what happens when you make it known that you won't keep guys through their arbitration years, right?

Hint: it starts with “the” and ends with “Dan Uggla trade.”

Also, I don’t give a shit about some nominal amount of surplus value that could be reaped by seeking draft picks when doing so will cause the team to miss a competitive window by forcing Corey Brown as a center fielder instead of David DeJesus. Draft picks are almost literally useless to the A’s right now as a means of producing a World Series title.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm talking about a systematic plan

over the course of a decade or more, barring changes to the CBA. I’m talking about a systematic way of running an organization, not the very narrow, specific version of “how the A’s can win a WS in this three-year window.”

I’m also not forcing the team to use Corey Brown. He’d be one of three potential options, none of whom is as good as Crisp/DeJesus: Brown, Taylor, or Sweeney.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure how it holds up

But I feel like there are a couple of good times to cash in on a player’s value. One would be, as you suggest, with a couple of years of pre-free agency arbitration value left. The other, I would think, is the last year a player qualifies as a type A or, to a lesser extent, B free agent. Predicting that on a regular basis can be difficult, but I think it might mean holding on to Crisp and DeJesus for a bit longer.

Things look bad if they go Kotsay, but there’s still room for surplus value in extensions like those. The benefits won’t be as great, but I believe teams operating on smaller budgets have to make use of all tools available to them in purchasing more wins on the dollar.

by rebus on Dec 15, 2010 11:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Uggla's a horrible example.

I specifically wrote that you don’t wait until a player’s final year of arb.

A good time to have traded Uggla, or Prince Fielder for that matter, would have been 2-3 years ago, before their arb raises became so large that their contracts don’t even have much surplus value.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

monetary, yes

But even if they are like 2 WAR and they get an arby raise to $5M, you’re still getting like 3-3.5M in surplus value.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

the team continues to reap dividends from the return on the trade.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Thing is though

Uggla is actually worth what he’s being paid, just not to the Marlins (who then go ahead and spend the money on Vazquez and other crap that is useless)…
That trade is baffling in so many ways…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Your logic is sound

But I question Brown or Taylor being able to play quality CF on a daily basis. I think we at least need to have a backup plan there. With Crisp likely being a 2nd tier Free Agent that might get slapped with the type A designation, demand for him could be low… The A’s might be able to sign him at a reasonable price since no one else will want to lose two draft picks. This is the whole point of the system… keeping free agents with their teams. It just rarely works unless the player isn’t all that exciting.

Of course then there is the issue of a team signing multiple type As to lessen the penalty… that could throw a wrench into my plan.

by DrDoom on Dec 15, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions  

have you ever actually ran any numbers on that, or are you just thinking out loud?

I can not say how serious you are about this, but I’d say not much.

If you go with your numbers (17m each for two FA, accounting for 60% of payroll), you have on average 900k for your remaining 23 players. Let’s say you have 23m.

That’s 20 players on a league minimum, one for 3m (1st arbitration year), one for 5m (2nd arbitration year) and one for 7m (3rd arbitration year). Remember, you need those, to let them walk when they reach free agency to collect your picks. That’s it. Every year you can offer arbitration to one guy out of 7-8 that accumulate 3 years of service. That’s it. You have to trade other 6. Every year. No DH for 3.5 mil, nothing else.

So every year you graduate that one FA and collect your pick or two for him and you trade away 6-7 other guys. Your two elite FA signings are giving you, what, 10 WAR? How much are you counting on your rookies and near rookies for? Generation after generation? What are the graduation rates of your picks? What do you think your second year players get in trade and what are the graduation rates of the prospects you so obtain? You need to have darn good ones.

And while you have no surplus value signing your players to extension, you certainly have even less when you sign elite FA. If anything, players tend to sign under their value before they reach the open market (Longoria, Braun, etc.)

Again, sorry if you were joking and I took you seriously.

by elcroata on Dec 15, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes and yes

Yes, I’ve run numbers on it, and yes I’m serious. Your scenario assumes a $51M payroll, which would be extraordinarily tight – bottom 2 in baseball in most years. If we extended it out to even $60-$65M (which is the figure I’ve used when running this exercise before), you could enact such a plan a bit more comfortably.
Also, it’s not like you need to trade 6-7 arb guys every year. Some of them will be unworthy and be non-tendered. Some of them will get meager pay increases – tons of arb-eligible players end up settling for less than $1.5M every year. Those guys could easily be kept and still be under budget, assuming they lacked trade value.

Your Braun and Longoria examples don’t work in this hypothetical. There’s a huge difference between extensions that are signed within 1-2 years of a player’s big league debut, and those signed immediately prior to reaching free agency. The former I’m enthusiastically in favor of, because the team gets a vast below-market discount. The latter I’m vehemently against, because inevitably the team ends up paying market value anyway, since the player is mere months (or less) away from tasting freedom.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Numbers

First, it’s not my scenario – it’s yours.

You sign him, and invest as much as ~25-33% of your payroll in him. […] Two $17-20M players, surrounded by a team of pre-arb guys.

Second, 2*17+23 is not 51, but 57. And, that is using the low end of your 17-20 pay range for FA. If we use 20, you are at 63m and all the constraints I mentioned remain.

Thirdly, and most importantly, you have not answered how many wins you aim for with such a team and how will you get so many wins with 88% of your roster being rookies or second year players. If you aim for some 90 wins and a play-off spot, you are basically saying that your 400k bunch gets you 30 WAR, and the two superstars the remaining 10 WAR. Or in other words that you can field a winning team (replace the two stars with more of the same 400k group) with 24m payroll. This begs for a question – how would you do that? Why are your cheap scrubs so much better than anyone else’s cheap scrubs? Why aren’t Pirates winning 85 games a year, then? How can you constantly produce 20+ near rookies that give you such great production?

And finally, if you have many guys to be non-tendered and/or get meager pay increases, how do you keep winning with that bunch?

by elcroata on Dec 15, 2010 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

It's your version of my scenario.

If $17M annual was 25% of the payroll – that’s the most flexible end of the parameters I gave myself – it would equate to a $68M payroll, with two elite players taking up half it. And $34M to play with for the rest of the roster.

Using the hard end of the extreme parameters (33%, $51M helps you support your argument, using the soft end of the extreme (25%, $68M) helps support mine.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 11:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Your roster is deeper than every other teams'...

because every time you are trading one of your very good players, you are diversifying. The Mulder trade netted three useful major leaguers. The Haren traded yielded six useful major leaguers: Anderson, Eveland, Smith, Carter, Cunningham, and Gonzalez.

Ultimately with this strategy you’ll have a very high internal replacement value and no black holes on your roster. Pretty consistent 2 WAR from every position, a few 3 WAR, and of course your two superstars.

Taking this too much deeper isn’t a good use of our time though, given how abstract the discussion has to be by nature.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

And Hudson trade netted? And Holliday trade netted?

If you work under premise that a team would, for no specific reason, start producing above average young players and then always flip them for even more above average players that all pan out, then yes it is great tactics. In a realistic world, though, I don’t see it to be.

by elcroata on Dec 16, 2010 12:06 AM PST up reply actions  

It's certainly no sure thing, but it seems like our best shot in the short term

Obviously the better way forward is to increase revenues and to be able to afford more 3-4 WAR players at least through the arb years.

Do you have a better alternative for the short term?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 16, 2010 7:31 AM PST up reply actions  

you are basically depending on making a ton of Fking A trades which is unrealistic

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 16, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but if it's frontloaded

We would still have money to spend. If it’s at ~$16M each year, we may not have money in 2013 unless payroll is raised…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

So you deal Anderson after he wins his first Cy Young

For a Dan Haren haul.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I could get behind this...

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

OR

before he breaks down completely, for a Mark Mulder haul.

by oakballnack on Dec 14, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm very unclear as to how the A's budget would look in '13 and I'm of the opinion that very few of us have much of an idea.

Do you have a good idea of what it looks like? I’m not asking rhetorically or with snark.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 14, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

No, I don't

But I’m assuming if we have any desire to keep the core, paying a 36 year old $16M vs. something like $10M could give us a little more flexibility…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Search grover's post history

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 14, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

You make it sound like he needs to run a background check on me...

Here

It’s actually a little dated now. Beane has sense said that the 2011 payroll is going up from last year, so the $60 million ceiling I set does not apply for next season. Nothing has been said about the payroll for 2012 or beyond but the A’s have ~ $26 million coming off the books after the 2011 season.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 14, 2010 11:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Eyeballing the numbers,

the A’s have eleven what I’d call “core” guys under contract at that point. Estimating the arb awards:

Suzuki: $6.4M
Anderson: $5.7M
Bailey: $5M
Breslow: $3M
Braden: $7M
Barton: $5M
Cahill: $5M
Rosales: $4M (I’m assuming he’s replaced Ellis in this scenario)
Ziegler: $2.5M
Gio: $4.5M
Pennington: $2.5M

Then you’ve got Landon Powell, Jerry Blevins, Ryan Sweeney, Josh Outman, and Joey Devine, who will all cost some money if you want to keep them around. That probably adds in another $10M or so assuming a couple have been axed.

Add $16M for Beltre and a bunch of league-minimum salaries to fill out the roster and you’re at about an $80M payroll. Realistically, the team is not likely making any additional moves at that point. What you see is what you get.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions  

not disagreeing with you

but I bet Baily is moved before he costs as much as anderson

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 14, 2010 11:38 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, but if so, you either need to replace him or make the team worse

DLS might be that guy, or they might take a college reliever with a top pick for immediate bullpen help on the theory that the team’s about ready to run out of gas anyway. It’s all pretty speculative.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:53 PM PST up reply actions  

a lot of those guys will be moved,

For the pre-arb future version of themselves.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions  

They'd better not be

The future version isn’t as good as the current version.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

You're misunderstanding me.

The players they are being traded for will one day produce what they are currently producing. And they will do it for $400K.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

So, what you're saying is, the A's should create value from nothing

That doesn’t wash with me. I prefer to not predicate my suggestions on the theory that other teams are run by dumbasses.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it's probably a safe assumption

that other GMs will be dumbasses. Just not that they will be dumbasses in a way that benefits us.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

That's how I feel about most people on AN!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions  

flagged

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

flag you!

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 15, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Did you just cry, fowl?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 9:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Tru dat

For instance, they might be dumbasses and trade a bonafide ace to a division rival for a mediocre starter, a crap reliever and two prospects who are so far away from MLB that they need a bloody telescope to see it.

Not that I’m bitter or anything.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 16, 2010 12:08 AM PST up reply actions  

He got shit canned pretty fast after that.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 16, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Pour encourager les autres.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 17, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess I am not explaining myself well.

Dan Haren was traded away from the A’s at what I would term “peak value.” Picture that his contract and his performance are on an X and Y axis. Every year that he gets closer to FA, the line goes down…but every year that he has a healthy, outstanding season, it moves up dramatically. Dan Haren, after posting two healthy seasons and with three cheap years remaining prior to FA, was traded to the Diamondbacks at the highest possible point of “peak value” on his career line graph.

Same with Swisher. Pretty much the same with Mulder.

That is what I am advocating that the A’s should systematically do with most or all of their players. Identify the “peak value” point on their career line graphs and trade them before that value evaporates through injury, performance decline, and increased salary. Sometimes they will end up trading too early by doing this.

But I don’t understand your pithy remark above. I think you understand exactly what I’m saying. I also think you feel that some other teams are indeed run by dumbasses. This doesn’t even require some teams to be dumbasses, though – it merely expects that at least some other GMs who don’t have ownership of the team like Beane will always have a “win now” mentality, in part because their job security depends upon it. It’s a very reasonable assumption.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

What would be the point of this?
…I am advocating that the A’s should systematically do with most or all of their players. Identify the "peak value" point on their career line graphs and trade them before that value evaporates through injury, performance decline, and increased salary.

Consistent mediocrity?

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

No, silly, it's to make sure Oakland gets the reputation

for being a place no one wants to come. (Oh wait, it already is!)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

you cant do it perpetually tho. You bust enough times that its impossible.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Making those trades requires that YOU NOT have a "win now" mentality

You can’t have one without the other. Even if you’re trading present value for discounted future value (which teams really shouldn’t do anyway, since I see no reason why a win a year or two from now means significantly less than a win now), it means your team is less good in the present. At some point the process has to be halted.

The team is, literally, constantly rebuilding. Your team would be actually doing what Beane is (unfairly) accused of doing every time he deals a player for prospects. It would be doing what the Marlins do, except with a rent-a-superstar or two glued on top.

Small-market teams need to build a very large number of WAR through the farm system to become a playoff team. And they need six years of control over players in order to do that. Trading everyone after three or four just guarantees that you’ll constantly be at least one or two stars away from actually contending.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 16, 2010 12:19 AM PST up reply actions  

What's your alternative for us in the short term then?

Suck for a while, compile high draft choices, contend for a while and then rebuild?

It’s valid too.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 16, 2010 7:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Doing what the A's are doing right now (from the broad strategic angle, I mean; I haven't liked a lot of the detailed moves)

is basically the correct strategy. Try to assemble a “core” of players that will be together and effective for 3-4 years by having a bunch of prospects hit the majors within a few seasons of one another.

You need to pay them the arb money so that they actually stay together more than a season or two.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 16, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Weren't Suzuki's arb years bought out?

Anderson’s too? Both of these guys got contract extensions that took them through I think 2014. Unless I’m mistaken.

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 12:03 AM PST up reply actions  

You are correct

Also, those numbers are grossly mis-represented, because predicting future arb rewards isn’t an exact science

"He who lives on hope will die fasting" Benjamin Franklin was a fool

"If we are thinking playoffs, why not look towards the mountaintop"

I like my quote better

by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 15, 2010 12:14 AM PST up reply actions  

First off, I've done a lot of this

Not to toot my own horn, but I’m pretty damn decent at it.

Second, it doesn’t have to be an exact science for people to have a ballpark estimate of what’s going to happen, which is exactly what lenscrafters asked for.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 12:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes

The numbers I put up are the guaranteed salaries for those years…

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 12:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Gotcha, thanks

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't disagree with the numbers, but I think it's very possible that the A's bullpen looks completely different in 2013.

And I’d be surprised if one let alone 3 or 4 of the players you listed on the bottom would still be on the team at that point, let alone total 10 million dollars.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 1:23 AM PST up reply actions  

This.

Several of those names… for whatever reason… will not be around in three years. Exactly which names we don’t know, but the relievers are a good bet.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 5:43 AM PST up reply actions  

You're probably right

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 15, 2010 7:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

Highly doubt the Ziegler/Breslow combo is still in Oakland at a combined salary of $5.5 million in 2013

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Once again

Replace them or make the team worse. Those are your options. Either of those options is arguably just as costly as their conjectured 2013 salaries.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Once again...

Replace them via trade, for players who will be of equal value. The A’s have done this for a decade.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

"Just as costly"?

One of the last things I have complete confidence in the front office in is their ability to find good relievers on the cheap, whether it be through the farm or from the scrap heap. I completely disagree with the notion that replacing them will definitely be costly.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

except for last years disaster.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, here I think you're too pessimistic about the ability to replace adequately

The A’s have recently been able to grab Wuertz and Breslow, as two examples, very cheaply, and those guys are not slouches.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

So, you are advocating that the A's nontender what practically amounts to their entire bullpen

and sign a bunch of Vinnie Chulk and Winston Abreu clones who’ll play for the league minimum?

That’s what we’re talking about here, folks. Again, this is fine for a team that is wandering lost in the wilderness, but it will not wash for a notional contender who needs some kind of certainty (or at least likelihood) of adequate performance.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 16, 2010 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Eh, I think relief talent is always semi-available

You can almost always find a Russ Springer, Alan Embree (not to mention a guy like Ziggy from the minors) type player on the waiver wire. You’re not getting elite production, but you’re getting average production.

Average production works for a nominal contender.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 16, 2010 1:32 AM PST up reply actions  

You also have Henry Rodriguez and Fautino De Los Santos

types who play for the minimum until their arb years.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 16, 2010 7:35 AM PST up reply actions  

right, but

bailey, breslow and ziegler are replaceable and all have trade value;

rosales will be behind green, cardenas and/or weeks;

and, unless outman returns to form, none of those guys in the $10M group are likely to be worth their salaries.

so youve got:

c suzuki
1b barton
2b green
ss pennington
3b beltre
lf taylor
cf weeks
rf choice
dh carter

anderson
cahill
gonzalez
braden
ross
outman
dls

plus anything else that shakes out of the a’s farm system, plus the return they get for the arb eligible players they deal, for $55M. thats looking pretty damn good to me.

by NRC on Dec 15, 2010 11:57 AM PST up reply actions  

So, in other words, you're relying on hitting on eight regular starting players out of this shitty farm system

No kidding it looks good on paper. In the real world, you’d be lucky if a third of those guys were worth anything.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

no, because barton, suzuki and pennington have already "hit" so there will only be 5 spots that need to be filled.

and i was mostly using the milb guys as placeholders.

i agree, its not reasonable to expect more than 2 or 3 out of green, carter, choice, taylor, weeks, cardenas, parker, brown and whoever they can acquire for bailey, et al., to pan out. but chances are theres an above average player and one or two average ones in there.

the a’s are then left with $15-20M to plug the gaps.

so maybe something more like this:

suzuki
barton
green/weeks/cardenas
pennington
beltre
taylor/cardenas/parker
choice/weeks/brown
swisher (4/$48M)
carter

by NRC on Dec 15, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Pennington hasn't hit yet. Nor really has barton. One season of success doesn't make a player. See Crosby, Bobby.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Really?!? Barton?

I’d say he hit better than was expected

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 16, 2010 3:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Really? He was BA's #1 Oakland prospect one year.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 16, 2010 7:35 AM PST up reply actions  

I meant 1 season of success does not a make a hit.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 16, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 16, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Dude you're selling Barton short.

115 wRC+ in 371 total games, that’s well over 2 full seasons of data including his terribad rookie year (where his OBP was still 100 points over his AVG)

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by mikev on Dec 16, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Dude I like Barton a lot, Im just saying that collapse is possible.

also a 115 RC+ isn’t that great for a 1bman

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 16, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I count eight

Green, Taylor, Weeks, Choice, Carter, Ross, Outman, DLS.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 16, 2010 12:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I forcefully rec'd this. Shattered my left click button.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:15 PM PST up reply actions  

You could also put failing to land Iwakuma as another blessing

$19M back to Oakland.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd rather look silly than look at Iwakuma in a Rangers jersey

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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

It could still happen!

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Not this year, though

If we’re working on a small window, putting that possibility off for a year is worth quite a bit

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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Good point lc

i think the time for inaction/scared of the expensive implications from this ownership group should be inconsequential at this point. As I said in my post awhile ago, the window for contention is now, with or without a new stadium, and this group can see the other al west stagnating to do the same things they are trying to do: filling current problems without seriously detracting from organizationals strengths (I.e. Choosing free agency over trades.)

Seriously a’s, make the best offer to beltre bar none, then live with it and adjust if he still doesn’t want to come here

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Dec 14, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler

by Jessse on Dec 14, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

i still don't get this

if nobody else is going after him at all, and he and boras gambled to get more money (but might have lost) and treated us less than favorably by even getting back to us, why do we offer him more money? i get upping the offer if we really want him and we think he’s actually got another suitor, but if not, i see no reason to offer him more money. offer him less. they gambled, probably lost, and now they get to suffer the consequences. happens all the time in sports…agents think their guy is going to get more offers than is realistic, waits for a crazy (worth-level) deal, and when it doesn’t happen, have to settle for less. if nobody’s knocking, i say we offer 5/50. let them see if anyone offers more. if not, we sign him for less. if somebody else offers something better, then see how high they’re really willing to go.

by guy incognito on Dec 14, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't mean to condescend, but do you regularly do negotiations?

Moving backward on your initial offer is a great way to a. make people think you’re not seriously interested in dealing with them, and b. make them really angry at you.

My own experience is in labor law. Doing that in a collective bargaining negotiation is an almost certain way to get slapped with an unfair labor practice for failure to bargain in good faith.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

it happens in sports plenty of times

guys think they’re going to get more than is reasonable, turn down offers, and after teams make other moves, they have to settle for what is left on the table. i’m not saying we should ridiculously low-ball him, but if we’re the only game in town, and we’re trying to make other moves, and he and his agent blew us off already, why should we then give them everything they want? if we think somebody else legitimately might make him a bigger offer, by all means, we should offer him more. but the fact is, the money we had available for him was available at a particular time. not our fault they never got back to us. we’ve moved on. and quite honestly, re: them being angry at us…they’re the ones who shafted us in the first place. they’re in no position to complain about this. if we’re the only team offering a big contract, they’d be fools to not sign. we were totally serious with them. they didn’t reciprocate. tough.
(btw, i know this isn’t how collective bargaining negotiations are supposed to happen. though…they do sometimes. but this is what happens with sports contracts from time to time.)

by guy incognito on Dec 14, 2010 11:45 PM PST up reply actions  

seems irrational

not sure that’s a way to run a railroad

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 14, 2010 11:51 PM PST up reply actions  

again, it happens with sports contracts all the time

its all about a game of probabilities. if person 1 offers you X at time Y, you think you’ll get X+5 from somebody else, with some probability Z. if you don’t (1-Z), the person that offered X before has moved on to other priorities, and may not be able or willing to offer you X, since you did kind of spurn them. you might have to settle for X-2. you thought Z was too high…not person 1’s problem. 5/50 is probably too low, but i certainly don’t think we should offer anything above 5/64 (which i thought was too high, anyway) if nobody else is really at the dance. we’re not the red sox/yankees. we can’t just throw away a few extra million/year for no good reason.

by guy incognito on Dec 14, 2010 11:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Assuming people negotiate like a "game of probabilities"

and not like a member of a small hunter-gatherer tribe on the African savannah is not a very good way to predict behavior in negotiations.

That kind of raw abuse of bargaining power makes people very, very angry. Maybe it “shouldn’t,” in some rational sense, but it does. It shows a lack of respect for the other party. That is going to trigger a defensive reaction.

If he accepts it, he loses face and credibility. Other tribesmen would think that they, too, can push him around. Better to reject it so that next time people know he’s willing to screw both sides over rather than accept a raw deal.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 12:44 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm thinking 5/60

isn’t bad. But why risk pissing him off over 4 mil? Really… 4 mil that we probably wouldnt have spent anyways isn’t worth it imo. We could get a decent COF to platoon, but I don’t think we have a roster spot for it. Though 4 mil on a relief pitcher doesn’t sound bad either, I’d rather have Beltre than nothing.

by sums95 on Dec 15, 2010 1:02 AM PST up reply actions  

So, in the absence of any other known suitors, would you up the offer by a (small/reasonable) amount?

To, say, 5/75 or 5/80 as suggested above?

I think back to when the A’s botched the Tejada extension, and when Tejada ran out of suitors and signed with the O’s, now in a recent BB interview it turns out that if the A’s had known in advance what Tejada would have taken when their were no other suitors, it turns out the could have afforded both Tejada and Chavez. And traded what was then a very hot prospect in Crosby. I get sick every time I imagine how the last decade could have turned out had that happened.

I’m sure Billy does, too.

Billy is no fool. He does some stupid things from time to time. (CoJax), but he also learns from his mistakes. I think that is also why Beltre might still be in play, and Crawford, Lee, etc never were: potential length of contract. After losing 3+ years of Chavy’s production, you can bet the a’s are leery of going long on contracts…

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:09 AM PST up reply actions  

and then not have a contract?

isn’t this what athletes learned from the latrell spreewell contract negotiation? how did that work out for him? oh right…it didn’t. again, this does happen in sports. all things being equal, sure, players and agents are interested in saving face…but if it costs them a lot of money, they’re not.

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 7:09 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't take the offer off the table, so hopefully they won't be angry at me

5/$50M is a ridiculous lowball, so either you’re not saying to offer that, or you’re deeply confused. I’d be surprised if he couldn’t get a larger guarantee for only four years!

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

see above

5/50 is probably too low. i’ll concede that. i still see no reason to go above (or maybe even fully up to) the original offer if nobody else is offering anything comparable.

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 12:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I think a similar thing happened to Adam Dunn in his previous deal with the Nats

I believe he turned down better offers, the market did not materialize, then he had to sign a 2/$20 deal.

by Billy Frijoles on Dec 15, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

You pretty much answered your own inquiry.
i get upping the offer if we really want him and we think he’s actually got another suitor

The A’s should really want Beltre if they truly intend to compete next year. And it’s complete naïveté to think that he has no suitors, especially now, with all the other premier free agents off the table.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 1:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I am worried about the Padres.

Not sure why as they just dumped Gonzalez instead of paying him, but do you think they are making a play for Beltre?

by Billy Frijoles on Dec 15, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

No

If they were going to invest big dollars in a player, it would’ve been Gonzalez. They’re looking to NOT spend big on one player.

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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

They didn't dump Gonzalez

Say what you want about the prospect haul, but they got 3 of Boston’s top 10. They have one of the better systems right now as well…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

right, not a dump

Just refused to pay him.

Anyways I am racking my brain thinking of other teams that need a 3B. The Dbacks don’t have $.

Toronto?

by Billy Frijoles on Dec 15, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Toronto and the Indians. Those are my best two Kouzmatron candidates.

Both teams want to emphasize defense at that spot.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd take back Zach Stewart or Nick Weglarz

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess Toronto might blow us out with a great offer for Beltre

I don’t see Cleveland wanting to do that, as they are many players away from contention.

by Billy Frijoles on Dec 15, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Toronto seems like the likeliest "dark horse" to emerge

But will they offer 5 years? They’re not West Coast, so if they won’t offer 5 years they fall short on two key fronts for Beltre.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus the idea of playing at home on artificial turf

Probably wouldn’t help their cause…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the reality is that even if a team is willing to make

a strong play for Beltre, that doesn’t mean they’ll be willing to go to 5 years. Which means Beltre’s best alternative might be something like 4/56, something the A’s can easily match and exceed with just a 5/70 offer. “5 years” is the A’s trump card, I think.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

is beltre REALLY worth anywhere near that?

i mean, i know his defense is quite good, but minus last year and his career year in LA, his OPS+ is consistently slightly above average. i know we can all look at different stats (VORP, WAR, etc), but on the aggregate, do any of them show that he’s anything other than above average, but not by a ton (again, acknowledging that he had 2 monster years in his career)? and if so, is that worth more than $10m/year for 4-5 years?

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 8:19 PM PST up reply actions  

"Minus last year and his career year in LA"

could make you a whole cherry pie!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 9:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

You can reasonably project Beltre for 15 WAR over the next 5 years. At 5 million per WAR, a 5/75 contract is roughly market value for him.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

In theory, this makes sense...

…the market establishes itself, so why pay more than you have to? In the real world it just doesn’t work that way.

Maybe I’m being irrationally hopeful, but I believe that Beane is still hoping and/or trying to acquire Beltre. I believe that he pulled his offer precisely so he wouldn’t be bidding against himself, AND so that other teams could not use his bid and drive up the price for him down the road.

If Beane is still interested, it does not serve him well to leave a 5/64 offer floundering on the table that Boras can point to so that another team will bid 5/70 (or more)… thus forcing Beane to bid 5/75 or more when 5/67 or 5/70 just might have worked. I’m with Nico on this, we just might see the A’s slide in with a “Beltre face saving” bid of 5/67 to 5/70, and save a few mil that can go for more depth. That would be a good thing, IMO.

That said, with the recent Lee developments and how that shook things up, I now would not be opposed to preemptively offering 5/70 or 5/75 (max) to try and get it done.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 5:59 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't know if even that offer gets it done right away

Boras has said he’s looking for a Torii Hunter contract for Beltre. I think unless he gets 5/90 or better he and Beltre are content to wait for a while. If the A’s wanna get him signed right away they might have pull a Nationals, I don’t know if that’s a good idea.

by OkayJay81 on Dec 15, 2010 12:01 AM PST up reply actions  

I think this is absolutely the wrong thing to do

What the A’s need to do, assuming they do want to sign Beltre, is to make clear their interest to Boras. They need to at least get the chance to reraise over any other offer. Boras will obviously try to create a bidding war if he can. The A’s need to be prepared to win that war.

The A’s tried making an aggressive, first-move approach. Beltre didn’t respond (at least this is how the media has portrayed it). Beltre is fine playing the waiting game. A bid now when Boras expects his market to pick up simply creates a higher starting price than need be.

All the A’s need now is for Boras to let the A’s increase their bid if someone goes higher. That gives them the opportunity to eventually get to the point where their high bid will get Beltre to sign. It could be as low as a little over 5/64 or it could be your offer. But it prevents the A’s from overpaying and it still allows them the best chance at signing Beltre.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 15, 2010 2:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Wait, what?

You think trying to sign Beltre in a full blown bidding war is better than trying to sign him immediately? That’s ridiculous.

If it’s between the A’s and Angels, the Rangers will get involved for sure as well, if just to drive up Beltre’s price. Without even considering the fact that other teams might get involved, the A’s are looking at going up against at least two teams, both of them division rivals, for Beltre. This is a stupid risk that the A’s can’t afford to take, especially because it’s one they probably won’t prevail in. The whole point of offering him a deal that he can’t refuse is to precisely avoid a bidding war. Does that raise the probability of the A’s paying more than they have to? Sure. But does it do better to ensure Beltre plays for the A’s next year? Obviously.

We are operating on the assumption that Beltre is critical to the A’s playoff chances. It’s also a case where not letting a rival team have him is just as valuable as having him on your team, if not moreso. Therefore, goal number one is to get Beltre period. Everything else, including getting him for a price that vignette17 deems appropriate, is secondary.

Furthermore, I’m not convinced that Beltre on a 5/80 contract would hamstrung the team significantly over the next several years. I’m even less convinced that the degree of hamstrung-ness is significantly different from 5/64-5/80. Basically, if paying someone 16 million per year is going to hurt you, paying him 3 million less per year doesn’t really alleviate the pain either.

Your idea essentially decreases the possibility of getting Beltre to save, at most, 3 million dollars a year. The A’s have been employing this penny-wise pound foolish approach for years. It’s kinda why, you know, they never end up with top tier free agents.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 3:46 AM PST up reply actions  

YOur last paragraph makes me cringe.

I sure hope they really are ‘all in’ this offseason.

Because, if they’re not, it’s all for naught.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 7:32 AM PST up reply actions  

well, the budget almost never has big-time FA room in it

But I agree with your general principle; once you agree to pay 13M a year to one guy, going to 16M a year isn’t much of a difference. It just means you find a scrapheap reliever instead of an FA one.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 7:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I think you're right about 5/80 not hamstringing the A's

Payroll’s sitting right around $50 million as it is (including Kouz) so $16 million for Beltre shouldn’t push Oakland into the red for 2011. And unless I was completely wrong about what I wrote prior to the start of FA the A’s should be able to carry that AAV contract through 2013 and beyond.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 15, 2010 8:11 AM PST up reply actions  

i don't disagree with these points

but why pay extra if we’re bidding against ourselves? for a small market team, a few extra million/year can be useful. and…again, if the market isn’t there for beltre, why do we bid against ourselves? as it is, i think the original contract offer was too high for a 32 year old version of beltre. that we can do it financially still doesn’t make it a sound investment. that some of you are saying we should offer more when nobody seems to be interested in even offering the 5/64 we did already seems highly problematic to me.

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

If the A's know their earlier offer was/is still high bid and the only offer...

then sure, it makes no sense to up the bid.

But Beltre is a big enough upgrade that if the A’s know someone else (say, Anaheim) is making a push for Beltre and have offered close to what the A’s did then Oakland should drop the 5/80 bombshell. Skip the incremental attack and jump straight to cutting off the other team’s head and crapping down their throat.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 15, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

fair point

but…that’s the real question. is anaheim really interested in him, at that price? i guess part of the problem is incomplete info…the a’s probably have a better idea if anyone has really offered anything comparable (or is likely to). if the answer to that is no, then there is no reason to up the offer, or even stay at that offer. if they think the angels are likely to offer something similar, then sure, offer more, though i think it will come back to bite us in the behind in 2 years when he won’t be worth anything near his contract.

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

It doesn't have to be Anaheim, pick another example if you like

The point is if there is another team pursuing Beltre it behooves the A’s to go for the quick kill than try and duke it out in a war of attrition.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 15, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

sure, agreed

anaheim is the only one i can really think of, though…unless texas is able to trade young (assuming they resign vlad…vlad is a much better DH option than young). again, the real question is, does a’s management think anyone is going to even offer 5/64? if they do, your argument makes sense (well, in my opinion, no, but that’s because i don’t think beltre is worth 5/64). if they don’t, they certainly shouldn’t budge off their initial offer, and should consider signing others and going back to boras with a lower offer that still surpasses everyone else’s. as it is, i just don’t think beltre wants to play for us.

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

It does matter if it's the California Angels of Anaheim

because they’re in our division. Who cares if the White Sox or Phillies (thank you for taking Lee) get Beltre – we still have an average third baseman and so do the other teams in our division. I just don’t want to have to play AGAINST Beltre.

"Today, I am the greatest of all time" - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Dec 15, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

(in the division)

yes, absolutely

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I used to be on your side of this,

but I’ve been swayed. The reason you have to raise the offer is because he won’t take the offer we’ve already made. Boras would likely have Beltre take another one-year offer rather than take one below what he thinks he’s worth. Think of it like the reserve in an eBay auction. You bid $5 on an item. It says “you are the high bidder, but the reserve has not been met.” You then have to decide…do you want to wait until the auction ends and see if your bid is somehow still the high bid and HOPE the seller decides to take it anyway even though it’s below their reserve? Do you sit and wait and watch someone else bid up to the reserve and get the item? Or do you raise your bid hoping to hit the reserve? If you get to the max you’re willing to pay and the reserve has still not been met it’s time to move on, but the A’s have made one offer, and the first offer should never be the highest one. If Beane wants Adrian Beltre, it’s going to cost him more than 5/$64 million.

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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Wouldn't Boras come back and say

“Billy, your $5 has been beaten. Slegna just offered $10. Make us a new offer or Slegna is the winner.” instead of letting the bids end?

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 15, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

The analogy was based on offering Beltre a contract below market value and why the A's would have to increase their offer

Your post, while it makes sense, doesn’t have anything to do with that really. I definitely agree, though; that’s how it would ideally go.

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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Boras is too smart for that

There’s no way Beltre will be worth more in next year’s FA market – he’ll be a year older, which means 1 year less of usable production. Beltre needs the biggest, longest offer, and he needs it now.

"Today, I am the greatest of all time" - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Dec 15, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions  

My point is that Boras would have him go the one-year route again rather than take a 5/50 contract

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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

i'm not so sure about that

do you think a 33 year old beltre could get a multi-year deal for over $10m/year? i’m not so sure about that. in fact, i think that’s pretty unlikely.

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

You think he'd take 5/50 instead of finding a one-year deal somewhere?

If that’s the case, the A’s were stupid to even offer 5/64. If you assume he WILL take a five-year deal for whatever the highest amount was, bidding should’ve started much, much lower. If Beltre doesn’t have an offer to his liking, he’s not just going to take whatever the highest one is; he’ll either keep waiting or take another one-year deal and try out next year’s market.

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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Where would he get this 1 year contract?

Seems most, if not all, the teams that need/want a 3B have already filled that need/want.

Also, if his own sense of value is over-inflated, at some point it is in his best interest to suck it up and realize it won’t happen and take what he can get.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

You don't think teams would "make room" for a one-year Beltre?

The market for Beltre is based on teams willing to give him 4+ years. If he was willing to take a one-year deal there would be tons of new options, including SF, COL, etc.

My argument in this is only based on the idea that we should reduce the offer to Beltre if Boras approaches the A’s again. I used to be on the other side of this issue but was convinced that my position was wrong. Reducing the offer to Beltre would indicate that the A’s are trying to game him for a couple bucks, and Beltre would likely just walk away from their offer at that point.

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by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe a team would, but...

…would that serve Beltre’s purpose? I would presume that a team “making room” would really not have an everyday dedicated 3B position for him, which would hinder his ability to maximize his desire to showcase himself for the next contract.

It’s possible, but I sense that this is his year to get his best possible deal. Maybe not his ideal deal, but the best possible deal.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree that this is his year to get his best possible deal

My point is that he won’t take 5/50 just to get the 5. I guess instead of a one-year deal I should’ve pointed out that he would likely be able to get 4/50 from someone else as opposed to 5/50 from us. I don’t see any reason for the A’s to offer less than they already offered, which is what this section of the conversation was about.

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Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

There’s no way he takes a 1 year deal. He’d be crazy to count on another year like he just had to set his value for the “long-term deal” when he will be another year older. This is his final big payday.

by speckops on Dec 15, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

bidding against yourself for Zito giving him Zito money

is bad. Beltre can be expected to be better than Zito.

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Bidding War?

The fact is that it is very doubtful the A’s can sign him anyway. Last year he bypassed the A’s to play in Boston for less. This year there are going to be other offers in his ballpark the A’s are not going to be the only team in town. If he wanted to play for Oakland he would have at least talked to the A’s regarding their last offer. He did not. What makes anyone think he wants to play in Oakland or won’t play in Southern Cal for less money. You argue what is 3 million, but that arguement is the same from Beltre’s point of view and why Lee took less to go to Philly.

I think it is stupid to say it will save money by throwing out an offer he can’t refuse and avoid a bidding war. Boras knows his worth, A’s have an idea what he is worth and the market. There is no way that Boras does not take that offer and at least see if the Angels … and others with 3b holes will not match it. So in essence your advising to throw out an absurd amount that no one will match. Good luck running a team with that philosophy. Your never going to outspend the Yankees and it is doubtful your going to outspend Texas, Angels or Seatle (even with a new stadium in the location you want). If your going to compete you need to spend your money more wisely then all those teams. Over paying FA’s to come to your team is not going to work. You will eventually let all agents know you will throw away a couple million for players and end up with a bunch of bad contracts and not have the money to keep your young talent. Look at the Mets, Royals.

Also, people forget that when the 64 million was offered we were not on the hook for Kous and his contract. So not only Oakland would have to increase the offer to Beltre by 3 we also are stuck with a 3.1 million contract for a guy who we will have to get rid of, so for 2011 it would be 6 million.

Oakland needs a new park if they want to be active in the Free agent market. 1) Beane and managenmet would have a better idea of revenue to decide if this will hamsrtring them or not, 2) Players want to know where they are going to be for the next 5-7 years 3) the facility goes a long way in convincing players Oakland is for real and can compete in this division and 4) it will increase revenue. Also, not sure why a lot of people on the board expect the A’s to be players in this market or that Beane is not trying. Look at the teams that are active and the ones that are not. To me financially the A’s are closer (actually behind a lot of the other teams) the later group then the big boys who are throwing money around. It would be nice to have the resources to be in the bid for Lee, Crawford etc. but 80% of the league was out. The only way we afford the Beltre or even in the mix was his tight approach and Chavez coming off the books.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 15, 2010 10:20 AM PST up reply actions  

You have a basic fact incorrect and it undermines everything else

Beltre turned down the A’s to go play for Boston for less overall guaranteed money but he actually earned more in 2010 playing for Boston than he would have had he signed with Oakland. He gambled that he’d have a bounce back year and could land a big payday this offseason… a bigger payday than he would have gotten had he signed a multi-year deal after 2009… and it appears as if he’s going to be right.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 15, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Realistic expectations.

Even assuming he will play in Oakland. I still think a lot on this Board have some unrealistic expectations on the organization. We have a budget we are not NY or Boston. Our current stadium situation is a mess. Our future is a mess as to where we will be playing and what revenue we will have. Beane early in the year made an offer of what he thought we could afford. Since that time he did not talk to us and we have also spent money we would have not spent had we signed him (Kousmanoff) and it is at least questionable wether we would or could afford Matsui and Beltre. I just do not see us getting in a bidding war under these set of facts. We do not seem to be in a position to over pay someone to come to Oakland.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 16, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

[insert repetitive "just because Beltre rejected two clearly unfavorable offers from the A's doesn't mean he doesn't wants to play here" comment here]

I’m also having a lot of trouble following the rest of your argument.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

My position is the bidding war is going to happen no matter what

The A’s need to prepare for it and hope it doesn’t happen because that’s the only way they get him cheaply…

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 15, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Just 'cause I feel like it needs to be said...

If the A’s did offer Beltre 5/80 and he either turned it down or just ignored the offer again (just running with the reported story) then that should be it. Oakland shouldn’t waste any more time pursuing Beltre.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 15, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

but...if nobody even offers 5/64

why do we even go to 5/80? the market isn’t shaping up the way boras thought it would for him. we should pay him what the market says he should get…which, at best right now, seems to be 5/64. its plausible our waiting leads to a bidding war, but is that really very likely? the only teams capable of throwing around that kind of money don’t seem to need a 3B (minus the angels, and it seems they’re having financial issues). so…yeah, if its not really likely, why not drop the price? or at least not offer more?

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Answered above...

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 15, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

agrd

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

The A's have four outfielders that Beane is in love with

I don’t see them making the OF upgrade that so many users on here want them to. I think Beane wants to see Sweeney, CoJax, DeJesus, and Crisp, healthy and in action.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:12 PM PST reply actions  

Even Beane knows that you need more than 3-4 OFers to make an OF,

especially when they all have recent injury histories. If a significant upgrade becomes available, he’ll pull the trigger IMO.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, they have 12 committed offensive roster spots at the ML level right now.

Four of them are OFs, plus Matsui at DH and Rosales as an emergency OF. At most, there’s one offensive roster spot remaining – and that could go to one of Sacto’s “starting eight”.

The only FA outfielder who could upgrade the ML roster is Ordonez, and he won’t come cheap.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Solution:

Sign Vlad, Manny and Maggs and we have the best OF in baseball.

Yeah right

by RememberDurazo on Dec 14, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

if it were 2005

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 14, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

You forgot the time machine.

Those 4 and we’re good to go!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Nah, you do need a center fielder

If we had a time machine, signing Andruw Jones would be the way to go!

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd go for Ty Cobb

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Mays

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 15, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

He was pretty good wasn't he?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

In this site's parlance

He was a touch above average, perhaps even decent

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 15, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions  

ha!

love

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 15, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Mays all the way...

Cobb could hit for power if he wanted to, but he was too stubborn to sacrifice his batting average. Maybe if he were introduced to advanced metrics and led to see the error of his ways, he would be more valuable.

However, the advanced brainwashing techniques necessary to turn him into a non-racist might take away his competitive edge too.

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Cobb did have a career .516 SLG

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I am sure he slugged over 600

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Once, in 1911.

He had a heck of a year that year. He hit the ball hard, and got extra bases with his speed and baserunning prowess.

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Women?

Minorities?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

everyone knows

he hated EVERY one

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 15, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

1990s Griffey

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Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

We do have another outfielder

named Chris Carter, but he’s a total crapshoot for next year.

"Today, I am the greatest of all time" - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Dec 15, 2010 7:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Just to point out...
and while agent Scott Boras claims there are “about 5 teams interested,” Boras is hardly the most reliable source here and the fact remains: Exactly one team has actually made Beltre a konwn offer and it’s the A’s, who also are among the few teams with a lot of money still available to spend in the free agent market.

You mean like how the Phillies were known to be bidding for Lee?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 14, 2010 9:13 PM PST reply actions  

can we just say we're a mystery team?

it worked for the phillies, and maybe beltre is a mystery sort of guy

www.kapayne.tumblr.com

by thewhizkid on Dec 14, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

plus bosox/crawford and werth/nats

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 14, 2010 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Thing is, teams were already bidding against each other there.

Also, Lee wasn’t even looking for the best financial deal (as evidenced by the fact that he passed up two better offers). No one is bidding against Oakland as far as we know — and in fact not even Oakland is bidding.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Side note

The presser today was awesome. I loved the whole translator bit.

by jeffro on Dec 14, 2010 9:22 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

So what about Greinke?

Any chance he goes to the Rangers or the Yankees?

I hope not

by RememberDurazo on Dec 14, 2010 9:24 PM PST reply actions  

I hope

Greinke goes to the Yankees and blows up there (Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano etc….). I don;t like wishing that on a player, but i HATE the Yankees

"He who lives on hope will die fasting" Benjamin Franklin was a fool

"If we are thinking playoffs, why not look towards the mountaintop"

I like my quote better

by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 15, 2010 12:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Well you must also hate Greinke then, and I don't

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:21 AM PST up reply actions  

MLBTR did a poll tonight on the best remaining free agent

Over 15,000 people have voted, and the results look like this:

Beltre: 61%
Soriano 16%
Magglio 6%
Pettitte/Vlad 5% each.

This sounds about right to me. Beltre is far and away the best FA remaining. Gotta have him.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:26 PM PST reply actions  

Just curious -- how do you explain the lack of buzz around him

in terms of known offers/negotiations?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Boston and NY don't need 3B.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 14, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

Zing!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

also he wasn't Crawford, Werth, or Lee.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 14, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Applause.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Dec 14, 2010 9:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Heh.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 14, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Everyone with money had higher priorities...

but now that those higher priorities fell through, I think he’ll get a lot more action.

The Yankees have ~$20M to play with, even after signing Ricky Martin. So do the Rangers. These teams that have money – I don’t think they should worry about whether they have an opening. I think that FAs are so scarce, you sign the best players you can sign, and then trade from a position of depth.

So the Rangers start looking into DHing Michael Young and playing Beltre at third, or trading Young.

As for the Yanks, this is a wild thought but…

They could offer Beltre $15M per to be the most expensive utility guy in history. Their IF/OF depth is awful right now. As creaky as Jeter/A-Rod are, if you could convince Beltre to be the “5th infielder” – the backup at 1b, 2b, 3b, and SS – he’d get 550 at-bats in that role, because those infielders will spend some DL time and A-Rod will get time at DH. Beltre is such a good athlete and defender, he could play a more than passable SS in part-time duty.

The Yanks need to use their greatest asset (money) by signing very good players. And only one remains.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I highly doubt Beltre takes that kind of contract.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 14, 2010 9:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah. They would have to overpay.

Beltre wouldn’t want to be a multi-position guy, and he doesn’t want the East Coast.

But enough money would talk. And the Yankees still have a lot of it under their couch.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Fearless Prediction:

Albert Pujols will sign with the Yankees next year for 10 years 250 million dollars to play left field.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 14, 2010 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Pujols will get 30 million per

The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler

by Jessse on Dec 14, 2010 9:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I like the way you think

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Try the "up" button

and you will see that NSJ’s response was to Lenscrafters.

by el generico on Dec 15, 2010 4:08 AM PST up reply actions  

in my defense, it WAS 2:24 AM, and I was just eyeballing the scroll

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 7:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Nah, it was to me.

I’m not exactly sure why nsj thinks Pujols on the Yankees is a good thing though, heh.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 4:21 AM PST up reply actions  

He hates the Cardinals?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Not a "good" thing, necessarily

But a really inspired, radical, thought-provoking comment on your part that represents a level of thought process that I would never get from the mainstream media, which is why I come here (for little nuggets like that).

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

How are you so sure he could play a passable shortstop?

He’s started one game in his major league career there, and didn’t play an inning there in the minors.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Dec 14, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

he's one of the best defensive 3b in history.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

He is?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Four Type A free agents remain:

Beltre
Soriano
Pavano
Grant Balfour

I could squint and see the A’s signing Balfour if Beltre falls through. His market value will be depressed by his Type A status, and the A’s would only be giving up the No. ~70 overall pick for him. And they could use some better bullpen depth.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 9:29 PM PST reply actions  

Do you sign someone named Grant or do you just apply for him?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 14, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

And we would get the Australian fan market!

LOL

But yeah, I do like the idea of Balfour. Breslow didnt finish well, Wuertz ain the same and Bailey is always injured

by RememberDurazo on Dec 14, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

There are non type-a arms available that are equal to Balfour, aren't they

(jesse crain)

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 14, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Or Guerrier

As long as they don’t sign Pavano, I’m good.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Dec 14, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't figure out for the life of me why Balfour didn't take arbitration

I’d be fine with signing some relief pitchers to one-year deals to game the free agent compensation system though. Move some of the cost-controlled guys to make room.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 11:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he or his agent assumed he'd get a multi-year deal

I have a feeling that’s why most of these Type A relievers decided to decline arbitration, they like the idea of 2 or 3 years with a lower AAV than having to go year to year again…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he will regret not taking it, yeah

But he’s this years O-Hudson, or Cabrera, in the sense that he’s the Type A free agent who’s not good enough to command massive atttention and will see the market for him suffer because of it.

If Beltre falls through, I think it’d be a good move to sweep in for a ~3M per year commitment for 2-3 years, or a one-year, $4M deal with the cliched, “We promise we won’t offer you arb if you’re a Type A next year” language.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, I wouldn't do that

The only reason I’m interested in him at all is that he might be worth more leaving the A’s than he cost to come to the A’s in the first place.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Would he be in goal for us?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 15, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Gross

jd44 is already a Blackhawks fan. I don’t need any more of their disgusting jerseys littering my A’s site!

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

No #3 hitter on roster

The line-up is lacking a strong RH bat. When you start making up line-ups all the best hitters are LH. Beltre would look pretty good playing third and batting 3rd against lefties.

by BlueMoon on Dec 14, 2010 10:16 PM PST reply actions  

Yep. This (lineup issues) is why he still should be the A's most pressing need

However, they also have lost the window to trade Kouz for anything good, which is a drag, because the really was a 3WAR player last year. I want this to work, but it’s looking less likely all the time…

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Question...

With the porn collection and all that… why don’t we go all in and make him wear #69? I mean wouldn’t that lead to even MORE innuendos?

by sums95 on Dec 14, 2010 10:20 PM PST reply actions  

I've always loved that word

It “reeks” of innuendo…

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:17 AM PST up reply actions  

well, something reeks in here

it might be Blooms socks though

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 15, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

killer caption Nico

Oh no! There goes Tokyo!

Godzilla!

Silence s'il vous plait!! Vous ne voyez pas que je suis en train de se masturber?!?

by emperor nobody on Dec 14, 2010 10:21 PM PST reply actions  

Jesus Montero...

“In turn, the addition of Martin could be a sign that Jesus Montero will be available in a trade or open the 2011 season at Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.”

Rotoworld posted that, but really? trade him?

Just throwing it out there but why if we gave up some pitching for him?

by RememberDurazo on Dec 14, 2010 10:24 PM PST reply actions  

It's complete speculation on their part

Last I heard this signing doesn’t prevent Montero from making a strong push to be the starting C if he has a strong spring…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 14, 2010 11:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that's just PR on their part

It’d be disenchanting for Montero to hear that he has no chance of making the big club.

I think Montero starts the year as the AAA catcher, Cervelli’s the backup, La Vida Loca’s the starter, and they keep Montero as a long-term chip if their rotation is in shambles by June.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

i think consensus is that montero cant stick at c

and the yanks need to keep dh open for arod (and/or pujols). ill be very suprised if he isnt dealt sometime this year.

by NRC on Dec 15, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

So Billy reluctant to trade young starter for big bat

and would rather not trade a young starter to get it.

Beane said that the team is still looking to add players, and the priority remains offense. With the free-agent market thinning, the A’s might consider trades, Beane said, but he added that they’d prefer not to move their best young starters. Some high-profile teams, especially the Yankees, need pitching and might be willing to deal a big bat to get it

Courtesy Susan Slusser:

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/12/14/SPOP1GQL3E.DTL#ixzz189xDwUpB

Someone please remind me how to get the link right please

by Trainman on Dec 14, 2010 10:36 PM PST reply actions  

if they can't get beltre, the best use of their money is facilitating a salary dump to acquire a useful player

Taking on Blanton or Beltran’s contract, swallowing most or all of it, and re-routing elsewhere for another useful piece.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 14, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I think we qaought to do Beltran FIRST, then go get Beltre. But we won't

Reason?: If we lose out on Beltre, when we go talk to Sandy, he’s going to say: “You guys are desperate for any kind of bat/chance of a bat” and not be as willing to absorb salary. If we pick up Beltran first, the Mets will be willing to eat more of his salary, so it becomes a much less problematic roll of the dice, and has no effect on the Beltre negotiations.

However, I don’t think Billy pays $4 gazillion more than he’s worth to sit Conor Jackson…

Now, Blanton? Yesssss.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:21 AM PST up reply actions  

qaought?

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:21 AM PST up reply actions  

It's a Tasmanian marsupial

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:26 AM PST up reply actions  

highlight the text you want to link

like, for example, instead of posting the url, you type in the word “link”

you then highlight that word, then click the link button (between the " and the tree in the text editor between the subject line and body text) and THEN cut/paste the URL.

by noava22 on Dec 14, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions  

So regarding the Beltre paragraph in the Slusser article?

“There’s a small chance the A’s could revisit the idea of signing Beltre, even though they withdrew their offer to him earlier in the month, convinced he does not want to play in Oakland.”

Was Beane actually asked by someone at the news conference whether they still had interest in him? Is their a transcript or something? anyone know? Thanks

Kiper+Fosse=Mute

by CorpseOfChavez on Dec 15, 2010 12:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I believe this is speculation again

Slusser didn’t say anything about “sources” and she is very specific about this (that’s why she’s one of the best out there!). I believe this is just a general attitude from the organization, that they don’t think he wants to play here.
I think that’s such a dumb thing to publicize anyway, especially considering Beltre himself admitted he almost signed with us last year (I will find the link if anyone wants to see it)…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:51 AM PST up reply actions  

id like to see the link since i didn't see it, if you have it handy... otherwise I can google it.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 15, 2010 12:58 AM PST up reply actions  

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/rob-bradford/2010/09/28/adrian-beltre-has-earned-right-choose-wisely-
that’s the closest I could find for now. There was another where he was actually quoted as saying he almost took the A’s offer, but I can’t find that one now…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 1:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I forget the exact quote, but Boras has said that Oakland is still a possibility...

…whereas places like Baltimore were told flat out “don’t bother”, so I’m not convinced that Beane & Co are convinced he doesn’t want to play here. I think it’s simple posturing on both sides. Boras cannot come out and exclaim “Oakland is our first choice.”, or even a preferred choice, because that ruins his leverage. On the flip side, Beane cannot leave an unanswered offer floundering on the table, either, as that makes him look over-eager and desperate.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 6:23 AM PST up reply actions  

MatsuWHY.

Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld

by ElQuesoCapitan on Dec 14, 2010 11:39 PM PST reply actions  

Because. Please read elcraota's breakdown of Cust vs. Matsui...

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Where he showed they're basically similar

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:27 AM PST up reply actions  

If you thought they were similar after that article

then you obviously didn’t get it. Cust and Matsui are in the same league, Matsui’s just better.

"Today, I am the greatest of all time" - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Dec 15, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, I like it

I feel like a mystery novel author who left the ending open, and everybody has a different murderer…

by elcroata on Dec 15, 2010 8:00 AM PST up reply actions  

well I have kurt Vonnegut here

and he says you are full of shit

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 8:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Or

with all due apologies to Vonnegut, Kafka and all the authors of “boy meets girl” novels,
was I trying to say this:

or this:

by elcroata on Dec 15, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

rec'd

the only that would be worse is that the old DH has a blow out year while the new DH stinks

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 8:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Nico

The way you write makes me feel good inside. Like a cozy blanket. Or like when a dad you never had plays catch with you. But then it turns out this new dad is funny and is a good writer and also likes the A’s.

Do you best? I put insect voices! (Laughs) (laughs)

by sleepingcobra on Dec 14, 2010 11:48 PM PST reply actions  

Thanks, son! (Now go do your homework)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 8:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Hrmmm....

You’re not a goat are you?

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 14, 2010 11:58 PM PST reply actions  

gosh darn reply fail

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Dec 14, 2010 11:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I think

that the additions of Matsui and DeJesus are steps in the right direction, however, we shouldn’t be appeased with just this. The A’s need to add another bat or two this off-season. I really do believe that when it is all said and done Adrian Beltre will be in green and gold this month. We have the top offer, maybe the only offer. Right now his options are dwindling and he must be getting antsy. The A’s could offer 1-1.5 million more per season and go from there. Additionally, we should look to add a RF (Ordonez?), however, i think Beane thinks we are set with a combination of DeJesus, Crisp, Carter and Sweeney in the OF.

I have changed course, and do like the idea of signing Rich Harden. We wouldn’t rely on him, it would be a cheap contract, and low risk/high reward. Harden could become a dominating reliever in the league. The addition of McCartyh was nice, he will fit right into the #5 starter competition, and may actually win it (depending on how Ross etc… perform in spring training). If the A’s do still have money left after addressing their offensive needs, we should go after a strong bullpen arm. It has been noted, but i must say that i am in favor of Crain, Balfour or Jenks. In fact, Bobby Jenks could look for a 1Y deal in order to build his value next off-season. Is there a better place than in Oakland? And setting up Bailey? I really don’t think so

"He who lives on hope will die fasting" Benjamin Franklin was a fool

"If we are thinking playoffs, why not look towards the mountaintop"

I like my quote better

by nocal81(Vincent) on Dec 15, 2010 12:05 AM PST reply actions  

I agree about Harden as a reliever

i believe that’s what he needs for his career to continue, otherwise he’ll continue to give you 10-15 starts and get shut down.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:55 AM PST up reply actions  

You could say that about Duke-sher, too

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:29 AM PST up reply actions  

All the more reason to pick him up again

If the surgery was successful, whoopeee!

No sarchasm here…

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

After all, the fanpost is titled “Glass Half Full…”

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 1:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I love me some Duke. It would be a great story if it works out. I think the glass has rosewater in it.

Really we shouldn’t worry at all about a mill or two here or there…

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 2:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Duke, Harden, and Ross could equal one full time 5th starter

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Duke> Harden

I would say that Duke would be a better option than Harden in the bullpen. Duke has shown to be very successful in a bullpen role, and I definitely don’t remember him getting hurt so much when he was just a reliever. Although, Harden may be good in the bullpen too. I remember Harden always pitching really well in the first three innings and scuffling a bit in the later innings. I am not sure that Harden will be as comfortable as a reliever as Duke could be. I agree that we should sign Jenks. He would really solidify our bullpen because I think Ziegler, and maybe Wuertz, have lost it.

by Rygoslinglover on Dec 15, 2010 1:43 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree, Duke>Harden. It's true Duke would prefer being a starter (so would Papelbon)

But why not both? If as stranahanahan has said, Duke’s surgery was successful, then he can be a serious candidate for a starter, and with our injury history, we still need starters. I agree, both are lights out for a few innings, and neither will cost a whole lot (this year).

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly

And I, for one, would much rather take Duke in the rotation for 15-20 starts then having him in the pen for 40-50 IP….
Neither is guaranteed, but his value is much better starting…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 2:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Justin Duchscherer has said

that he has is uncomfortable in the reliever. Not just the usual athlete reasons but personal reasons why he’s unhappy with it. He finds it very stressful not knowing which days he will pitch. I think he would retire before he’s sign on with any team as a reliever

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't mind him as Opening Day Starter and 60-day DL Fixture

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

My ONLY acceptable Duchscherer signing option...

…He signs with us in mid-to-late August and is called up on the 31st, pitches 5-6 starts down the stretch, and into the playoffs… providing he has NOT pitched previously anywhere during the season (excepting minor league rehab, or whatever, to get ready).

Other than that… do not want.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions  

It's an interesting concept

I mean, he could feasibly make more money if he were to take the Pedro route of last year.
Some pitching depleted team that’s on the playoff cusp would pay at least the $1-2M he’s gonna get the sign with Pittsburgh or someone this offseason…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

This was not my original intent in this concept, but...

…I could see maybe in the not-too-distant future some older and/or injury prone pitchers becoming “late season starting specialists”. Doing this every season to stretch their careers a few years.

Money would be the same (or even more). Workload would be less. They’d be fresh for the stretch run. They’d definitely have impact. Holding off signing with anybody until August… “starting mercenaries”, if you will.

I think it could work well for pitchers who have the stuff, but cannot seem to stay healthy for an entire season.

I should get royalties for that idea.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Why not he pitches Opening Night

and every 5 days thereafter until he’s injured and replaced by Josh Outman?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, my thought

It takes a while for things to sort out anyway.

So Duke starts as the fifth starter (or first, or second)….he pitches til he’s injured. By that time, the team will get a better idea about Outman and McCarthy, see how Harden is working out in the bullpen, check on the advancement of Ross, or see if Cramer continues to overperform.

by richwol1 on Dec 16, 2010 1:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Perhaps Duke/Harden could help solve the 5th starter quandary as well...

…I remember a few years back someone on AN came up with the idea of using these two as a “two-headed starter”. Something like Harden pitching innings1-4, Duke coming in from the 5th through the 8th, then handing it over to the closer. They would both stay fresh enough in this scenario for an additional high-leverage 1-2 inning appearance/week each, and would have the best chance to last the whole season…does anyone think BB would pursue a “thinking outside of the box” approach like that?

by kitoko on Dec 15, 2010 6:54 AM PST up reply actions  

He might, but then he's give the responsibility to implement it to ...

Bob-o, who would undoubtedly botch it.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 7:38 AM PST up reply actions  

You'd be carrying essentially an extra pitcher

If you did that, you’d be expecting both of those pitchers to pitch every fifth day, meaning they likely wouldn’t be available the other four. That hurts flexibility.

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Like the A's use the last guy in their pen anyways....

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 15, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

The "Oh. Yeah. That guy." guy.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

We are the only offer so far, But the Rangers have money, and must be pretty frustrated right now

This is why I support upping our offer. At some point, the Rangers can’t afford to spend money just to block us wrt Beltre. but, at our current expired offer, I don’t see why they can’t.

As to the relievers: sign Harden, and try to sign duke, too. As the ‘bullpen catastrophe’ post made clear, we really do need to strengthen our ’pen.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:33 AM PST up reply actions  

They should save their money for Pujols

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:28 AM PST up reply actions  

If you go on the Rangers website

the front page is the organization giving excuses as to why they couldn’t get Lee. Their fan base is pissed.

"Today, I am the greatest of all time" - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Dec 15, 2010 7:45 AM PST up reply actions  

A baseball player named "Fielder"...

… reminds me of a friend whose gynecologist was named Dr. Hand. I’m not kidding, he had pens, even.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 15, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Dr. Wiener

The Doctor that did my nephew’s circumcision. I shit you not.

by JPShark on Dec 15, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

That was probably his stage name

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Until she gets married to Joseph Cutter and becomes...

Dr. Wiener-Cutter

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not ignoring Crain, Balfour or Jenks

Just sticking to what we know: Harden and Duke…. Plus, of course, showing loyalty actually has merit with ballplayers sometimes. See: Lee/Phillies.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 1:55 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Lee/Phillies is a counterexample to showing loyalty

The Phillies basically let go of Lee because they thought he was going to chase every last penny. They decided they’d rather invest in Halladay. So they traded Lee for peanuts instead of even letting him finish his contract with the Phillies. What does Lee do? He sacrifices money to come back to Philly.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 15, 2010 2:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, and then they turned around and offered him a shorter contract than the big boys, and what did he do?

Signed with them. They showed interest. They made it clear that it was just a business decision t let him go last year, not a lack of interest. And he rewarded them in return.

I’m saying, if we show Duke and Harden that we know they are good, and offer even a 1-year deal, we can have them, because we are still interested. As were the Phillies.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 15, 2010 2:17 AM PST up reply actions  

He did NOT sacrifice money. We don't know that yet.

The mainstream media keeps telling us this, but he did NOT sacrifice money.

He’s getting $24M per year over five years. The Yankees and Rangers did not offer him that much over five years.

By the time the deal has ended, Lee will be 37, and the market will have probably experienced five more years of inflation. And Lee will have probably had five more stellar seasons.

Some team might offer him a two year, $50M deal at that point, if he still has pinpoint control and awesome success. We won’t know that he SACRIFICED money until that scenario doesn’t play out. If that scenario does play out, it would mean that Lee actually earned more money by playing in Philly, where his numbers will be better than they would in the AL (and he knows this).

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Because, if the Yankees or Rangers had offered 7 years,

at $24M per, he would’ve accepted it. It would have been the highest pitcher contract in history, and they weren’t willing to give it.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess so

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Contract offer idea to Beltre

Has anyone proposed maintaining the 5/64 contract offer, but then adding a $10 million signing bonus? This is a way to front load the contract significantly, while also doing it in a way that hopefully the MLBPA doesn’t flip out about. The A’s take a payroll hit in 2011, which is fine because of the payroll flexibility for this upcoming season, and in the remaining years his salary would be much less of a drag on the team payroll.

Thoughts? Any reason why this isn’t a good idea?

I bleed green and gold!!! (my doctor is worried)

by Vaillant on Dec 15, 2010 5:39 AM PST reply actions  

That's then a 5/74 contract

Front-loading isn’t a terrible plan for us, but I don’t know how much the players like it. It makes them easily tradeable in the sunset years of their deal when the whole point of signing is to have some kind of certainty of where you are going to play for 5 years.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 7:12 AM PST up reply actions  

NTC?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 7:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Those are basically worthless anyway, IMO

If the team wants to trade you when you have an NTC, they ask you to waive it. Generally, teams do this when the team is going to suck, so it’s sort of mutually agreeable to both parties to waive.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 7:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm surprised that certainty over "where" they will play outweighs "how much" they will play for.

As you say,

the whole point of signing is to have some kind of certainty of where you are going to play for 5 years

What are the benefits to a player of being on a particular team? It seems like having a multi-million dollar contract passed from team to team doesn’t really affect much, does it? (I should probably ask Cliff Lee this question directly, though, and anyone else who has traded off more money for an organization of their choosing.)

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 15, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Townsend (the post-game host) always says

“Baseball players are creatures of habit” which is something I generally agree with. Part of the FA privilege is to NOT have to move around all the time at the whim of your team. Of course, making gobs of money is also an FA privilege, but they are going to have that no matter what.

To some extent, that’s why players have to be overpaid to sign with crappy teams: if the team sucks, you’re a prime trade candidate. The extra money makes up for the uncertainty.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks, cuppingmaster!

Makes sense, especially the “gobs of money” part. Can you imagine choosing between $120M and $132M and $138M? I try to grasp that this is an $18,000,000 difference – though the years and various clauses and vestings and all are different. Course, this was between two/three good teams, for Lee.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 15, 2010 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah. Poor kids. :)

P.S. NSJ points out above, relevant to my post, that Lee was not “choosing” between these amounts at all. A very well made point, so please, nobody bust my balls for this dumb post.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 15, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Is Lee moving to Philadelphia or staying in Arkansas?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Heckifiknow!

Given the choice, which is your call?

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 15, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Winter in Arkansas isn't exactly a picnic either

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Then Philly it is!

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Certainly in Arkansas

A large house in Arkansas costs about the same as a small condo in San Francisco.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Something tells me he could afford Arkansas now.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but...

…why would he want to?

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Isn't there a regular on here who lives there?

Oh yeah, Bed lived there…(still does?)

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not a fan of front loading.

It seems like all it does is make the contract more expensive without looking as nice as to the player as larger dollar values.

I mean, if we assume a 7% return on investment, paying an extra $10 million over the life of a five year contract would cost something like $8.2 million today. A ten million dollar signing bonus would cost, well, $10 million.

Granted, $1.8 million over five years isn’t a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but I’m not sure what it does for us. It’s not like the A’s have money this year that goes away if they don’t spend it.

by Pero on Dec 15, 2010 8:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Performance-based incentives

Valiant’s comment above gave me an idea. What if we offered him 5/75, but then made up a bunch of a performance-based incentives that could push the total to 5/85. Stuff that’s fairly easily attainable, but not automatic. For example:

If he plays 145 defensive games in 2011 and 2012, he gets an extra $2M; if the same in 2013 and 2014, he gets $3M
Every 25 HR year gets him $1M.

Or whatever other incentive would fit the above definition. That way, Beltre can be reasonably certain he’ll get the money if he just does his job, and the A’s don’t have to pay him what he wants right now AND can have some savings if he tanks or gets injured.

Thoughts?

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 7:36 AM PST reply actions  

An incentive-laden deal

that starts at 64M? Sounds pretty player friendly to me.

"Today, I am the greatest of all time" - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Dec 15, 2010 7:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not opposed...

Though putting HR incentives encourages swinging for the fences.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 15, 2010 8:31 AM PST up reply actions  

It is even allowed by the CBA?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Swinging for the fences?

Yes, it’s only against Oakland Athletics policy.

by elcroata on Dec 15, 2010 8:49 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Hee

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I think that those aren't really incentives, they're bonuses

I know it’s like splitting hairs but I think basically a player will never feel like it’s a good deal to take a lower salary for an incentive to win an award that is voted on, but it is imaginable that they would on performance-based incentives.

Basically, I think the $ for an award is more like a bonus rather than an incentive, it doesn’t really induce a particular performance by the player.

by Billy Frijoles on Dec 15, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

interesting. thanks.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

No

I’m not 100% certain having incentives for “defensive games”, as opposed to simple Games Played, is allowed either, though I’d need to look at the exact provision to be sure.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

IP in the field would be okay, too

I would think since so much of Beltre’s value is tied to his defense, it would be appropriate (if possible) to tie some of his incentive into defense.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

If there's any rule against performance-based incentives

it’s not in the CBA. I’ve looked through the CBA pretty thoroughly and I’ve seen nothing of the sort. On the contrary, there’s a rather detailed section specifying how such bonuses are accounted with regard to the salary cap (for luxury tax), and another section about determining which team is responsible for them when a player is traded.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

It may be in the MLB Rulebook

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know the rulebook as well, but

I just looked skimmed through it and don’t see anything there either. 12(e)(1) makes references to treatment of performance bonuses when a contract is traded, and 9(e) makes similar references for assigned contracts.

This is curious, because I’m sure that I too have heard there are restrictions on what is allowed for a performance bonus, but I’m not finding the rules spelled out anywhere.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe in the oft-ignored definitions sections?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 15, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Nope

Just checked, and not there either.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

YES

SuSlu

I’m hearing that the #Athletics do now have a major-league deal in place with Rich Harden. He will be a bullpen option.

I’m so happy. I love Rich long time. Rich pitching to Donaldson…imagine that!

by TBRMKane on Dec 15, 2010 9:00 AM PST reply actions  

More

Rich Harden and the A’s have agreed to a one-year contract worth $1.5 million in guaranteed money and another $1.5 million in potential incentives based on games started, according to a major league source.

by TBRMKane on Dec 15, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Don't think a rolex will buy the #

Maybe a car? Did we ever find out what Sheets bought sweeney for his # last year?

by hishnik on Dec 15, 2010 11:07 PM PST up reply actions  

True

But Sheets was very vocal about not disclosing the gift, stating that if Ryan wouldn’t say, he wouldn’t say.

by hishnik on Dec 16, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

hes making 1.5 m not 10 you don't give people cars for numbers if youre only making 1.5m

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 16, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

What did Harden make last year? about 10 right?

Also, I would argue Bailey has more prestige in keeping his #, even if technically he should give it up for seniority/tradition

by hishnik on Dec 16, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

So he's a bullpen option

with incentives in his contract for GS. Okie doke!

The artist formerly known as HigherPie.

by vegAN ryAN on Dec 15, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I want the AL to have a pitcher SSA

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

they should

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Even more incentives for turning off the alarm clock without injuring himself!

$1 per correct alarm shutoff

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

And, what, 17 cents per "snooze button"?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

The GS incentives are strange, but I negotiated very hard for them!

For every game he appears in, I get five hundred bucks.

For every start, I get a thousand bucks.

For every Win or save, I get another thousand bucks,

but for every L, I have to wash his dog and his car.

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

seems like the source got something wrong

maybe incentives for appearances? i have a hard time believing the a’s would even try to start harden again.

by nateinberkeley on Dec 15, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

should we just put him on the 60 man DL now? why wait?

there should be an over/under when he’s DFA’d or put on the 60 man DL

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

May 15th for 60-day DL

Earlier (under) or later (over)?

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Later

He’ll be on the 15-day DL for about a month and a half first.

by ozzman99 on Dec 15, 2010 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

this is a fair point

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions  

And that's after he's day-to-day for a couple of weeks.

But hey, this signing could work out well. After all, the A’s have had such great success with players who have a history of injuries.

by ozzman99 on Dec 15, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

fixed
day-to-day for a couple of weeks a month or two.

That said, it’s only $1.5M. Look on the bright side: at least we didn’t get Jeff Francoeur.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 9:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm just being an ass, really.

This is a low-risk signing that could have a decent payoff, and very little loss.

by ozzman99 on Dec 15, 2010 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice

Very encouraging, especially because Harden didn’t seem so pleased with the A’s on the way out.

I love green because money be green.

by Joey C. on Dec 15, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Boooo

Hiss.

If this ends up costing the A’s a useful player, or worse yet encouraging the team to do nothing for the rest of the offseason, I’m going to be seriously pissed. What a waste of a roster spot.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Kouz's roster spot is 1 for 1

They probably already have a trade lined up for 1-2 non-roster prospects, for if they sign Beltre.

The Oakland A's: If you have a no-trade clause in your contract, we're in it.

by notsellingjeans on Dec 15, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

do they still have wood?

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

He is

I believe the contract had a vesting option he didn’t match, so he’s now a FA.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I know I do!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Eh, I'm gonna irrationally enjoy this one

And if he can go out there and give us some flashes of old, I’ll say I told you so!

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

the guy had moments of dominance last year

his change is so good that he can still overpower hitters, even when hes sitting 90 on the gun, and even without his once devastating slider (which he hasnt used at all since he left the a’s).

hopefully the bullpen role is easier on his arm. it should definitely help his numbers. compared to what else is out there for $1M+ (jeremy accardo), it seems like a nice gamble.

by NRC on Dec 15, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

With all these crazy deals being handed out to relief pitchers (Randy Choate, 2 years? Srsly?)

I have to admit it’s not looking nearly as bad as it did even a couple of days ago.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 16, 2010 12:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

Especially if they leave him in the bullpen.
I have a sincere hunch he’s worth his weight in the pen…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 16, 2010 3:35 AM PST up reply actions  

HARDEN!

This signing really does excite me.
I will never forget one of his last starts with Oakland. Beautiful day at the Coli and he shut down the Phils. 7 IP 2 H, a bunch of Ks. I remember thinking that would be the last time I would see him in Green and Gold. But he’s back!

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 9:05 AM PST reply actions  

Me too. I always liked him. Upside baby!

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I was at that game...

…and recall thinking that he was “special” tat day and that we could see a no hitter. He actually came pretty close.

by Dr Pez on Dec 15, 2010 9:15 AM PST reply actions  

"tat" means "spank" in Vietnamese

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Gives tit for tat a whole new meaning....

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Dec 15, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I love this Harden signing

He may not have had a great season last year, but pitching back in Oakland I believe will get his juices flowing again.

I do believe this will excite the fans and help put some butts back into some seats. I would love to go watch Harden pitch in an A’s uniform at the colliseum again.

Good job Beane. Cheap, too.

C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!

by proevn on Dec 15, 2010 10:13 AM PST reply actions  

Why? If the 40's at 40, can't he stand pat?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh. Crap

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions  

heh

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Hey, man, watch it!

There’s a rec, here!

I love green because money be green.

by Joey C. on Dec 15, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Not if he signs Beltre.

Then again, a Beltre signing would/should indicate a Kouz trade, one would think.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Can always DFA Cust.

Oh, wait…

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Gotta be some sort of trade, regardless

What we see now is not the final product, so either a FA signing and someone’s bumped or a trade…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Who the heck is Jose Rivero?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 10:35 AM PST reply actions  

.

wikipedia knows all

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 15, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

In other words....

the pennant is definitely ours now.

C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!

by proevn on Dec 15, 2010 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Another guy with no plate discipline

I don’t know why Billy keeps going after these types all of a sudden

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't see anything wrong with his plate discipline

I do see that he appears to play for Seattle, however. Was he released? Traded for? Just curiosity? What’s the deal here?

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Arizona took him in the AAA Rule 5 and then traded him to us

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

For whom?

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

PTBNL or cash

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

OK, so you're cherrypicking the lowest mark of his career?

He’s clearly got a lot of issues as a prospect, but a low walk rate is not one of them.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Please, I'm hardly cherrypicking

Going from 8.7% to 9.7% down to 6.4% in repeating a level he’d played at 2 years prior?
I believe that’s a cause for concern, especially when the K rate is still pretty high and he’s benefited from high BABIPs…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the cause for concern is that he repeated the same level for a third year and still struck out a billion times...

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 16, 2010 12:32 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd agree that's more concerning...

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 16, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

deeply concerning.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 16, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

What the heck is our 40-man roster going to look like?

We just added Harden, McCarthy, Matsui, Rivero and we’re even thinking about Duke? Do we have a spot left for Beltre? Can someone just take CoJax away?

"Today, I am the greatest of all time" - Rickey Henderson

by A'sFanDFW on Dec 15, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Heh
@susanslusser
Susan Slusser
The physical is no small matter when it comes to Harden, so really it’s incorrect to say that Harden is officially signed. #athletics

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 11:01 AM PST reply actions  

I think some ladies just got really excited.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I mean the part about "The physical is no small matter with Harden"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

haha

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

Wash keeping Feliz in the pen

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 11:04 AM PST reply actions  

YES!!!!

This is a huge win for us.
Seriously, he could have provided around a 2 WAR bump for them over whoever will probably fill that 5th spot…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

...
and instead he stays as a killer solid closer.

Feliz last year was worth less WAR than John Axford in Milwaukee. Though WAR doesn’t work as well for relievers, suffice to say that Feliz as a very good reliever is worth less than Feliz as a decent starter.

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

This

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 15, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Not hiring him is the gift that keeps on giving.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, what it keeps on giving is Geren.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, we're gonna have to do something about ole Peanut Brain.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Dec 15, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Geren has just as much stupidity as Wash,

but he lacks exuberance and passion,
and always seems to be scratching and sniffing when the camera’s on him.

Wash, on the other hand, is always chewing his cud like a good manager when the camera’s on him.

I think Bob needs three more stomachs.

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 15, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Harden...upside... yeah, like that'll happen.

Sorry, I’m just not seeing it.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 11:10 AM PST reply actions  

I should clarify...

…I foresee health being the issue, not necessarily performance “when healthy”.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

His performance "when healthy" was godawful this season

It’s unclear to what extent it’s even theoretically possible for Rich Harden to be “healthy” at this point.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

All true, but if it were....

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 15, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

It was.

I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibilities that he could bounce back, performance-wise, though. Not guaranteed, but it’s possible. It is his health that I have absolutely zero faith in.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 15, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

The last time Ben Sheets pitched before 2010, he was great

FIP in the low 3s. That’s a reclamation project that actually made sense (though probably not at $10M).

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

harden in the 'pen might work out better

pitch 1-2 innings every other or third day or so. he can just throw fastballs if he wants. i dunno…i mean, it is harden, so he might already be on the DL, but i’m hoping a role change helps him stay healthier.

by guy incognito on Dec 15, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

"Fastball" is a relative term with Harden these days

Although I don’t know why I’m bringing the Haterade. I’m happy he’s been brought on as a reliever.

I love green because money be green.

by Joey C. on Dec 15, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

third week?

every third day to day?

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 15, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Iwakuma's first name

Although the misspelling has appeared on several sloppy blogs and even in a few respectable newspapers, I’m pretty sure the correct spelling is “Hisashi”, not “Hasashi”. (Perhaps someone more familiar with Japanese can confirm this?) It would be nice if AN is not among the crowd of blogs who just copy each other’s mistakes.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 11:39 AM PST reply actions  

but I'm pretty sure they aren't

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 15, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Then they both will not fail to be incorrect

Duh

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Correct, it's Hisashi

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 15, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Hialeah?

thought that was a racetrack.

by richwol1 on Dec 16, 2010 1:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Ah! Leah!?

thought that was a song

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 16, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Just fixed it.

Perhaps even sadlier than not knowing the spelling, I knew the correct spelling yet still managed to type it wrong. Mea (Ron) Culpa.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 15, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Moar Wall Spaghetti
@joestiglich
Joe Stiglich
Baseball America reports #Athletics ink RH reliever Vinnie Chulk. No shortage of vets hoping to rebound and stick on A’s staff this spring

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Dec 15, 2010 12:51 PM PST reply actions  

I have no idea why this hasn't been reported until now

Posted yesterday: All the non-roster invitees

Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Dec 15, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions  

nice pull

yadel marti is another guy who should be considered in the mix for the 5th starter spot and/or bullpen

by NRC on Dec 15, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Man, We Could Have Had...

Cust and Matsui batting 3 and 4 in our lineup!

Beane sucks

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Dec 15, 2010 4:17 PM PST reply actions  

Yep.

If Cust wOBAs .350 as he’s projected to, it wouldn’t be worth it. If hits like he did last year, at .380, it would be. The defense essentially takes off an equivalent of 35 points of wOBA. Wow.

by danmerqury on Dec 15, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly, I was being sarcastic

Many on AN love Cust, and Nico wrote about it earlier. I disagreed with his assertion that batting 3rd would be beneficial to our offense and that he could be the legit. #3 that contending teams have. I wish Cust well, but the team has an entirely different makeup now that Willingham and Matsui are on board.

…Jack’s a big boy , “hiding” him would take a lot of wallpaper.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Dec 16, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

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