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Breaking Down the Angels' Financials

Recently, there has been some discussion about the Angels off season activity, including their quixotic signing of Scott Downs as well as predicting what they will do next. I wanted to break down the financial situation of the Angels and illustrate why them signing Cliff Lee is both financially prudent and a the greatest possible competitive upgrade.

Star-divide

The first important realization is that the Angels cannot compete going forward with the group of players they currently have over the next three years. Last year the Angels had a 79-83 Pythagorean record and were 8 WAR below average, with Oakland at 85-77 and about 4.5 WAR above average, and Texas pacing the division at 92-70 and leading the division at 11.5 WAR. That number is just a baseline for next year, as the Angels made lasting improvements at the trade deadline by acquiring Alberto Callaspo and Danny Haren, from the Royals and Diamondbacks respectively, improvements which the other clubs did not.

 

Looking at the Angels position viz the A's, a glance at last years Pythagorean record gives the illusion that the A's are actually a better team than the Angels. We are not. First, Kendry Morales, who was on pace for his second straight 4+ WAR season when he broke his leg in a freak celebrating a walk off HR will return. That should be a 2. 5 WAR improvement. They will have a 5 WAR Haren all year instead of a 2 WAR proven winner in Saunders. Also, the Angels have the ability to not have a complete black hole at 3b, with Macier Izturis or Callaspo not being Brandon Wood. That change creates 4 WAR swing from -1.8 to 2 WAR. Just by making those upgrades the team should be 9.5 wins better, or 1.5 wins above true talent league average. Those moves make up almost all of the difference between the A's and the Angels. Furthermore, Oakland's defense regresses a full win and theirs improves by .5 WAR. With the A's and the Angels at this point they are within the standard deviation of reasonable luck. But, it still puts the Angels behind Texas.

 

How are the Angels going to improve the about 8 WAR they need in order to catch Texas? They have three choices: free agency, trades, or the farm. I am only going to address two of them. Free agency and the farm.

 

Lets look at their farm to see what they can expect to come up the pipeline. This is Sickles review of the 2010 Top 20 where I removed the players who were traded and the players who didn't play this year because of injury:

1) Mike Trout, OF, Grade B+: .362/.454/.526 with 45 steals for Low-A Cedar Rapids, .282/.368/.427 in 25 games for High-A Rancho Cucamonga, six steals. Power is still developing, but speed , OBP, and defense are excellent.

2) Hank Conger, C, Grade B+: .278/.370/.414 in 86 games for Triple-A Salt Lake City. Actually hitting much better on the road (.868 OPS) than at home (.707). Has caught 29% of runners, but made 12 errors in 63 defensive games. Not breaking through like I'd hoped.

3) Trevor Reckling, LHP, Grade B: Horrible at Salt Lake (8.53 ERA, 46/50 K/BB in 70 innings, 99 hits). Better after moving back to Double-A Arkansas (3.54 ERA, 39/21 K/BB in 48 innings), but he already showed he could handle that level last year. Stock has dropped substantially.

4) Garrett Richards, RHP, Grade B: 3.55 ERA, 121/36 K/BB in 119 innings between Cedar Rapids and Rancho, 109 hits, 2.10 GO/AO. A solid season.

5) Peter Bourjos, OF, Grade B-: .314/.364/.498 in 102 games for Salt Lake, 27 steals, 13 homers, 13 triples. 5-for-27 (.185) in eight major league games so far. Not much left to prove in the minors.

6) Fabio Martinez Mesa, RHP, Grade B-: 3.92 ERA, 141/76 K/BB in 103 innings for Cedar Rapids, 80 hits. Excellent K/IP and H/IP marks confirm quality stuff scouting reports, but has to get the walks down.

8) Jordan Walden, RHP, Grade B-: 3.26 ERA, 38/22 K/BB in 47 innings between Arkansas and Salt Lake, 46 hits. Doing OK after conversion to relief due to durability problems. Need to see the walks come down.

11) Randal Grichuk, OF, Grade B-: .244/.286/.489 in 34 games for Cedar Rapids, .327/.365/.714 in 12 games in the AZL for rehab of sprained thumb. Excellent power potential, bad plate discipline.

12) Trevor Bell, RHP, Grade C+: 3.00 ERA, 19/6 K/BB in 30 innings for Salt Lake, 6.03 ERA in 34 major league innings, 52 hits, 27/9 K/BB. Still has a chance to be a useful pitcher eventually, but may get stuck as a Quadruple-A type.

13) Ryan Chaffee, RHP, Grade C+: 6.93 ERA, 56/36 K/BB in 74 innings for Rancho, 102 hits, 1.67 GO/AO. I thought he was a big breakthrough candidate but he's been awful. Still gets grounders, but strikeouts way down from last year.

14) Tyler Chatwood, RHP, Grade C+: 1.77 ERA, 70/36 K/BB in 81 innings for Rancho, 2.93 GO/AO. Has remained effective after promotion to Double-A, 3.27 ERA, 25/20 K/BB in 52 innings for Arkansas, 53 hits, 1.73 GO/AO. I don't like the deterioration in his strikeout rate at the higher level.

15) Jean Segura, 2B, Grade C+: .307/.353/.443 with 40 steals for Cedar Rapids. No complaints here, stock is rising.

16) Alexia Amarista, 2B, Grade C+: .310/.352/.429 with 22 steals in 110 games between Rancho (72 games), Arkansas (36 games) and Salt Lake (two games), production fairly steady between levels.

17) Michael Kohn, RHP, Grade C+: 2.15 ERA, 57/25 K/BB in 46 innings between Arkansas and Salt Lake, 11 saves, 28 hits. Three runs in 5.2 major league innings thus far, with 5/4 K/BB. Should be a useful relief arm.

18) Carlos Ramirez, C, Grade C+: .228//341/.395 for Cedar Rapids, however this breaks down to .176/.308/.289 in the first half and .329/.410/.603 in the second half. Murders lefties (1.142 OPS). Good defense.

19) Tyler Kehrer, LHP, Grade C+: 5.08 ERA, 77/55 K/BB in 89 innings for Cedar Rapids, 85 hits. Decent strikeout rate and gets some ground balls, but too many walks are hurting him.

It looks a lot like the A's system, a pretty unmitigated disaster, plus Mike Trout, who is possibly the best prospect in all of the minors. That one elite bat really changes the whole dynamic of the system, though, when compared to the A's. Out of this system I think the Angels can reasonably expect to get a Catcher (Conger), two OFers in Bourjos and Trout, a 2bman (Amarista), perhaps a viable DH in Trumbo and a fair number of Bullpen arms a few of which can fill in as a 5th starter. Further down the line you can get the 2010 draft class in with players like Kaleb Cowart and Chevez Clarke, whom I was high on predraft but aren't likely to make an impact for 4 years. Overall, really isn't much to see potentially one above average regular (Trout) in the whole farm.

Now, lets look at the budget situation. A year ago I wrote about the Scott Kazmir acquisition's effect on the Angels budget saying:

 

Considering the dismal state of the economy, it is likely that the Angels payroll will be down to $110m next year. That would provide just slightly less than $30m before the Kazmir acquisition. The Angels would be lacking two starting pitchers, a starting right fielder, a starting designated hitter, back up first and third baseman, a starting third baseman, a left handed reliever, and a setup man. Kazmir's $8m represents a little more than a fourth of that sum, leaving only about $22m remaining to fill all of those positions. That makes it nearly impossible to see a return for Chone Figgins, who will likely command $7.5-$10m a season for at least three years, when Brandon Wood is a viable replacement at the hot corner. Similarly John Lackey will receive around $15-17m a year for at least 4 years and likely more, which makes his return unlikely as well since the rest of those needs would have to be filled at $5m-$7m total. There are also back of the rotation candidates within the system, Dustin Mosely, Shane Loux, and others, who despite not being very good are cheap replacements, though the Angels are clearly lacking depth.

Right field and DH do not have suitable internal replacement. Gary Mathews Jr is a below replacement rate player and Reggie Wiltis is not a major league starter. While there a plenty of DH bats available, which should depress their prices. Further, Juan Rivera has had plenty of experience in RF, which puts left fielders in play as free agents.

This suggests that getting one big bat for the outfield and letting DH be a position that players rotate through to provide rest and better catcher defense with Napoli getting lots of DH at bats with Mathis behind the plate. If the Angels sign a bat for $16m+ plus they can probably only afford at most a good bullpen arm (such as resigning Darren Oliver) and a back up 1b/3b veteran.

2011 is an even bigger problem if they have $16-$20m committed to an OF bat. The trade of Sean Rodriguez will require them to stick with Howie Kendrick through arbitration, and they will need a back up MI when Macir Izturis leaves after 2010. Closer also becomes a problem as Brian Fuentes is in an $11m option year that if exercised leaves no budget room for the rest of the bullpen which will need serious help with setup men, starting DH, negotiate extensions with arbitration eligible players, or to replace under performing or injured players.

Essentially the Kazmir trade throughly compromises their payroll flexibility, doing so for someone that is not likely to bring surplus value beyond his contract.

P { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

After 2009 the Angels did not invest in an OF bat like I had suggested they would. Instead choosing to sign Fernando Rodney for their bullpen at $5.5m a year for 2 years, add Joel Pinero to the rotation at a cost of $8m a year for 2 years, resign Abreu at $9m a year for 2 years, and add Matsui for one year and $6m. In 09, I had said that the Angels were likely to keep their payroll down to about $110 million dollars. This was incorrect. They upped their payroll to $121m according to Cot's, though Baseball Reference seems to think they only spent $115m all season, which was more in line with my projections, though I trust Cot's numbers more. I do, however, take some solace in the fact that the Angels lost $10m and I think it is always bad practice to predict a payroll that will lead to loss of income for a franchise unless the owner states that that is acceptable.

Regardless of the fact that the Angels didn't acquire the one expensive OF bat that I expected, Angels did acquire $20m in commitments to position players for the 2011 year. Lets take a look at their payroll:

 


Angles PayrollAnglesdepth

 

(Projected Arby awards are green and prospects on the depth chart are yellow)

 

 

Essentially, the Angels are in a similar situation that the A's are in; they have a competitive window that is rapidly closing with their current core. Look at the attached spreadsheet and you will see a lot of blank cells next year and the year after where the Angels have expiring commitments to both their home grown core and free agents. In 2013 the Angels have only 5 members of their current core under control. The players not mentioned in the spreadsheet are bit role-players in the bullpen. Additions from the farm included, the Angels are going to have to make extensions to some of their core or they will have to replace 4 starting position players and 3 starting pitchers with free agents or prospects by 2013.

 

How can they address these problems going forward? From the spreadsheet, it appears that the Angels have already over extended themselves. Despite jettisoning Fuentes' $9m salary and $5.25m in dead weight from the expiration of Justin Speier's colossally bad deal, they are projected to spend $132.4m. That figure is beyond both their 2010 payroll, and what is reasonable for a team that lost $10m at a lower payroll just last year. With these levels of expenditures the Angels can expect to lose money. They can cut bait with Mike Napoli and Reggie Wiltis to save $6m this year to give them some more flexibility.

 

The need to extend current players and going over budget would seem to preclude adding a big FA acquisition, but I wouldn't be so sure. If the Angels add a large contract they should be able to structure it to avoid a significant hit this year and pay for it in future years where their commitment to deadweight players like Gary Mathews Jr. expire. Next year for example, if the Angels signed Cliff Lee to a 7 year $168m deal, they could pay for it almost completely with the expiring contracts of Kazmir and GMJ. I expect that the Angels could take a $10 million hit to their pocket book to remain competitive and acquire a FA, while using the length of the deal to make up for it being short in the first year.With that being said a longer contract is probably better for the Angels financial health and Cliff Lee fits that profile, since his contract will likely be 6 to 7 years. Adrian Beltre would also fit that profile since he will have a 5 year contract.

 

The Angels would be far better with Lee. Instead of upgrading 2 WAR to 4-4.5 WAR by moving from Macier or Callaspo to Beltre for a 2.5 total WAR improvement at 15m a year for 5 years, Cliff Lee would be an instant 7.5 WAR upgrade to the Angels as he would replace the below replacement level production (-.8 WAR) of Scott Kazmir in the starting rotation. Furthermore, the Angels really have no quality starting pitching prospects to speak of in the pipeline, so Lee wouldn't block anyone. A 7 year back loaded $168m deal would come out to an average annual value of $24m a year, and for the first year would be worth far more than the league average free agent win price of 4.5m/WAR at $3m a pop per win. Honestly, its the fiscally responsible move for them to sign Lee. They, remarkably, would be paying below market rate of free agent wins for the early years of his contract. If the Angels signed Lee it would instantly vault them ahead of the Rangers since it takes about 3 War of production from them and increases the Angels projected WAR by 8. That would mean that the A's would be unable, even if they sign Beltre, to reasonably think they could catch the Angels, since WAR to actual performance has about a 5 game margin of error.

 

Getting Cliff Lee is both fiscally smart and will win the division for the Angels. Its a move they need to make.

Comment 564 comments  |  18 recs  | 

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naw dude its a history of PL being a dick.

If youre not interested in a baseball piece go to a nonbaseball blog

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Look on the other thread to see PL78's rant against members of AN

With that sh*t just happening then I come here and read this….I can see why DFA feels the way he does.

by Po' Boy on Dec 12, 2010 3:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I saw that.

But this is a freakin’ blog. Nobody stole anything. Nobody got hurt. It’s a freakin’ blog about baseball. Lighten up.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

Do you know how much time I spent writing this?

To do the payroll and the depth charts and the arb cases and the whole thing; its nearly 3k words. It took about 6 hours to write. PL78 decided to piss all over it as have you at this point. This is the kinda shit that makes me want to stop writing here.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed...

DFA did his research and made some good points. If you aren’t going to contribute at all (if you disagree, then just say why instead of just saying WRONG, KTHXBAI) then don’t post. (kind of a general thing… idk where to put this)

Its a well written article and now I know more about the Angel’s future. I can use my knowledge of the A’s future to draw comparisons between the two teams in the future. I have a more informed opinion of whether our team is ready to compete in the AL west due to this article.

by sums95 on Dec 12, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

im not. Im not asking anyone to pay me. Im asking people to not be dicks.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

It would be an interesting exercise to try out

a Community Guideline that says, “Don’t be a dick.”

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd be banned day one.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

No, no, no... he didn't say "have" he said "be"

I think you’d last at least a week or two.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

yay!

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions  

so would I.

Im only a dick about baseball though, not about random shit.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

DFA, while I really do appreciate the time and effort you put into this piece

And this blog in general, I feel there’s a bit of a double standard here.
You just said you’re asking people to not be dicks, and then you admit that you’re “a dick about baseball.”

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Its a content vrs other dichotomy for me.

If PL said anything about the content of the piece I wouldn’t care. I never go after people personally, no matter what. Ill destroy their baseball content though and frankly Id love if someone would do the same to me (though I think Ive got my bases covered).

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough

And thanks for an explanation.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Also, this really was a fantastic piece

Rec’d.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

How about "don't be a dumbass"?

That covers stupidity AND jerkishness.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Ultimately, that's up to the mods anyway.

I’m not sure it’d be any less of a judgment call to say when someone is being a dick vs when someone is “baiting”.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

'baiting without a dick is pointless.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

That's not what she says.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, you're asking them to not be dicks...

And then you’re telling on them. You’re flagging a comment you don’t agree with.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Nah

That had nothing to do with DFA not “agreeing with” PL. It has to do with PL constantly baiting and acting like a victim every time people don’t see things his way. Calling DFA too sensitive is completely unfounded based on his comment. It was a polite way of saying “you’re crossing a line, you know you’re crossing a line, and I’m giving you a warning to clean it up.” DFA didn’t go on the offensive and attack back. He simply warned PL that he took action and that was that. Then you came in and tried to drag it out by continuing the thread when it could have just as easily ended right then and there. And then when it was explained, you’re kind of picking up a torch and attacking DFA.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Also, calling a guy "too sensitive" when someone says "this post shouldn't be here"

when he spent SIX HOURS on it really isn’t far.

Like DFA said, he doesn’t care if you pick apart the post. Call his idea about Lee stupid and I’m sure he’d engage in the discussion. Say his hard work doesn’t deserve to be here (and, by the way, an analysis of a division rival absolutely belongs here) and that’s just insulting for the sake of insulting.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 12, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

this is exactly how I feel.

and six hours is probably an underestimate.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

srsly. imagine if you'd used capitals and spellcheck and stuff

OHSNAP.GIF!

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I did asshole.... didn't I?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

You think I read all that crap?!!?

I don’t get paid enough for that..

oh wait…

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I've asked that of you before...

I appreciate this post… it is excellent. But you do a greater disservice to yourself than PL did by even responding to him.

by DrDoom on Dec 12, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

While I don't agree with the idea of blowing up the A's so soon in the game

I do appreciate the kind of time and work that goes into writing a piece like this.
DFA, you are obviously a very intelligent and skilled poster here, and many times I don’t agree with your point of view, but that doesn’t mean I don’t respect your knowledge of baseball, especially in regards to advanced stats, and I just want to say kudos to you on this one. Very well done…

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Dec 13, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I appreciate the rec!

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely man......

By the way, I historically get along with Taurans fabulously! So, there is hope for us yet…..Go A’s!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Dec 13, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

You are FFFFAAAAAARRRRRRR too sensitive.

You did awesome work. The time and effort shows by the quality of your writing.

My god if you can’t take a few bad comments from anonymous people on a FREAKIN’ BASEBALL FAN BLOG then I can’t imagine how you spend the rest of your life. It must be miserable.

His comment was wrong and I’m sure about 99% of AN agrees that it was a dumb comment. But it’s no reason to flag it.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

Saying "IT'S JUST A BASEBALL BLOG" is kind of disingenuous to me

Obviously it’s pretty important to a lot of us here, especially those who take the time to create things like this.

For them to basically be shat on by others who aren’t really interested in it says more about those people than the ones who get annoyed at the flippant responses.

Should people be less sensitive toward some of it? Maybe. But AN is quite obviously a lot more to many people than “just” a blog.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 12, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions   3 recs

Very much agreed.

To some of us, this is a hell of a lot more than a “freakin’ baseball fan blog”.

by danmerqury on Dec 12, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Just look at the sense of community there is when it comes to gatherings and even the occasional charitable thing

Many people here know each other as more than just names on a screen, and in more cases than that people have met and become friends through the place.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 12, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I haven't been a member for very long

but the “it’s just a blog” arguement is offensive and idiotic

"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10

by MissOakland on Dec 12, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

It's just a blog like it's just a video game...

or just a novel. Or just a movie.

They’re great. They’re all great industries and provide valuable things.

I didn’t mean to slam AN… I meant to suggest that DFA took those comments too seriously.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Those really aren't comps for blogs.

All of those are entirely fictional stories, whereas this is a very real, interactive community. Whether you’re in deep enough to have an attachment to it or not is entirely irrelevant to the reality that there are a lot of people around here who do. What you’re saying is this thing that we all feel a very real, vested interest in is not real. Since a lot of us have met in person and/or have shared very real parts of our lives with one another, nothing could be further from the truth. Which is why when you present it like that it’s rather insulting.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Have we actually met in person? I cant remember?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions  

In fairness,

it was dark…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Very briefly, yes.

One of the early tailgates this year. If I’m remembering correctly it was the first one Bloom bailed on.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

hmmm I don't remember but if youre a local im sure Ill see you at many next year.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Likely.

It was definitely very brief. I don’t think we spoke directly, just within a small group towards the end.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions  

What?! I've never bailed on anything.

This is all lies.

And the last remnants memory destroys.

by Leopold Bloom on Dec 13, 2010 12:42 AM PST up reply actions  

I understand your point...

And either you misunderstood my point or I didn’t explain it very well.

I didn’t mean to mention all things that are fictional. Think of chess clubs and everything that that. Very real things. They have tons of value, but wouldn’t be ranked high in terms of value to make the world go around.

Though I’ve never met any of you in person and have actually never been to the Bay Area, I feel like part of this community if for no other reason than because I’m an A’s fan and all of you are. And this is a great place to talk A’s.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm gonna go with "didn't explain it very well"

Especially since you aren’t quite as connected to the more personal side of AN from things like tailgates and grilling at Nico’s place, being a NRAF.

Gonna suggest letting this one go.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 12, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

But novels are not "entirely fictional."

I am more inclined to think that reality is fictional, and novels are real. Or at least, reality depends on fiction (and fictions) to maintain its coherence. After all, we attribute more sense/continuity to what we call experience than it deserves, and so-called fictional narratives can better represent the actual experience of being alive, while providing the conceptual basis for ordering our perceptions, beliefs, etc.

Except that, as I surely realize, right now I’m “really” very hungry and going to dinner, then Black Swan.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 12, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I love you.

And the last remnants memory destroys.

by Leopold Bloom on Dec 13, 2010 12:42 AM PST up reply actions  

So tell me:

As someone with no interest whatsoever in formal dance, but a [cough] great deal of interest in Mila Kunis, should I watch Black Swan?

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2010 12:56 AM PST up reply actions  

yes

yes
yes

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 13, 2010 12:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Is that the one where RRS told us

she makes out with some other chick?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 8:40 AM PST up reply actions  

ChickenStanley is correct. (Warning: TMI alert.)

I went to sleep rather easily last night with other things on my mind, but woke up with a certain not unfamiliar but physically uncomfortable feeling, which I attribute directly to Ms. Kunis’s dramatic performance. I remain, a few hours later, somewhat distracted and irritable.

Let me point out, in addition, that imdb refers to "The talented Milena “Mila” Markovna Kunis." This is true, of course, but, um, completely irrelevant to my state of distraction.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 13, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions  

"Irritable"?

Are you perhaps doing it wrong?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 8:48 AM PST up reply actions  

And she's not willing to play act?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions  

I meant to include:

“And my wife is still sleeping.”

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 13, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions  

OK, that's a complication, but

I’m still not seeing the “irritable” part.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Waiting for her to wake up...

… but worried that there wasn’t enough talented man-flesh in the film to compensate for a Monday morning “up and about” mentality.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 13, 2010 9:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

AN is the only place I trusted meeting a fellow member at a bar in New York, having him buy us a round of drinks, and afterward not feeling totally weird about it!

These clothes are good enough to drink in, and so be these boots, too.

by Leap Year on Dec 12, 2010 6:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel like replying,

“You realize this is only a blog, right?” But if you haven’t read the previous front page thread, you might not get it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

It would be nice if things could be left without response sometimes.

AN is a community, and in every community quarrels of a personal nature will arise. Honestly, I think it’s worst for the readers who have to scroll through pages of meta arguments when we’re really looking for baseball discussion. I really wish for a collapse thread button at times like these.

Oh, and also that the ad banner wouldn’t cover the drop down login window. .

by rebus on Dec 12, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Woah, woah, woah...

I come to AN far more times in a day than I’ll ever admit. I love it.

My point was that a stupid, anonymous comment on the internet. No one was hurt. Nothing was broken. Nothing was stolen. Nobody’s reputation was ruined.

I might have been over the top… but my point is that sometimes those types of comments are taken far too seriously.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey

this is a great article and your contribution to the site is welcomed and appreciated…

A few jokes here and there, but nobody’s hurt physically or nothing!

Focus on AN because I like reading what you have to say regarding A’s BASEBALL

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Dec 12, 2010 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

except they aren't jokes. they are personal attacks.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Very much appreciate your time but...

At first blush I too thought this article might be better suited on Halo’s Heaven. Although it is relevant to both sides. In fact, I bet if you posted it over there they would appreciate it as well. Good work, but don’t let internet people get to you.

by jasonlbe on Dec 13, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

You realize that I did the same thing last year and it was FPed, and Nico just yesterday was talking about who the Angles should sign right?

saying this doesn’t belong on AN is insulting. It has gotten 8 more recs than anything that PL78 has ever written and got front paged. He decided to piss all over everything because he hates me.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Let me just weigh in here as an administrator

This piece absolutely, unequivocally belongs on AN. The Angels’ fortunes affect the A’s, plus there is ample room on AN for discussions about other teams, especially when their success/failure has a direct impact on the A’s.

But even if that weren’t the case, in an off-season where there’s only so much A’s info to dissect, a well-thought out, comprehensive piece on the Angels is utterly appropriate. That’s why it’s running on the front page.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 13, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure he meant no offense

Looks like humor to me. And now you went and got yourself in trouble when he wasn’t trying to provoke you. Just take it easy.

by DrDoom on Dec 12, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

The front pagers thought that the piece was good enough to be FPed and yet a dude with a history of going after me thinks that he should say it doesn't belong her.

Fk that.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly

Which is why I rec’d you initial response and flagged the comment that spawned this mess.

Now there's nothing left to say, so let's go drink beer.

by doctorK on Dec 12, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Response was fine

til he got flagged himself. Oh well. What’s done is done.

by DrDoom on Dec 12, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

appreciated.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Flagged

Because you’re not helping.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 12, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

If this is your first experience with PL, then I can see why you think what you're doing is appropriate

But in this case, you really don’t know what you’re talking about and you kind of need to back off with this.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I haven't had run-ins with PL.

I didn’t mean to start a shitstorm here. I just wanted to let DFA know that I think he takes comments far too seriously.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Flagged!

Just because it sounded cool in my head to jump into a Tarantino-style flag-off

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Dec 12, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Um, no. It was very much an intentionally offensive comment.

He has a history of doing this.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

FLAGGING???

boo hoo!!!

Mommy…

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Dec 12, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2010 7:55 AM PST up reply actions  

I love how every comment has at least one rec

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 13, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

When you make conclusions like:

" If the Angels signed Lee it would instantly vault them ahead of the Rangers since it takes about 3 War of production from them and increases the Angels projected WAR by 8. That would mean that the A’s would be unable, even if they sign Beltre, to reasonably think they could catch the Angels, since WAR to actual performance has about a 5 game margin of error."

On an A’s blog be prepared for short answers like that. Is this article good? Yes. Does it belong here. ABSOLUTELY. Should you expect to get snide responses from A’s fan? OF COURSE. If you can’t take the heat, don’t write on a blog. I don’t know the history of PL78 making posts on other articles, and I simply don’t care. It’s a great article; keep them coming. On the other hand, if it hurts you so much to have people write snarky comments to your writing, you should probably find a different hobby, for your sanity’s sakes.

If people DON’T make snarky comments about your writing, you are probably doing it wrong.

And by the way, I think you misunderstood the math; I am reasonably certain that the predictive WAR has a standard deviation of much higher than 5 wins. Sure if the A’s finish with their predicted WAR then they have a +/- 5 game margin of error to reasonably finish within the Mariners, however what is the actual margin of error for finishing at their predicted WAR combined with the margin of error for their predicted WAR producing their predicted record? The AL West is wide open; you give the Angels their WAR back for all the bad things that happened to them last year; however the A’s can get those extra WAR gifts too if you remove their black hole at 3B, while penciling in Chris Carter and Hideki Matsui for 850 OPS and roughly 25 HRs. Big dudes don’t always come back from broken legs; I don’t think you can just assume Morales will be an instant WAR upgrade either.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Dec 13, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

You make an extremely good point

5 games (I’ve heard six) is the standard deviation around Pythagorean record within a single season, i.e. roughly 2/3 of teams will be within six games of their Pythagorean record at season’s end.

I’m sure the standard deviation ’round preseason projections is quite a bit larger.

[Not such a good point: Penciling in Chris Carter and Hideki Matsui for an .850 OPS and claiming the A’s had a “black hole” at 3B. Hoboy.]

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait...

…so another 13.5% of teams could be between minus 10 and minus 5 of their Pythag. and still another 13.5% of teams could be between between plus 5 and plus ten of their Pythag.? I didn’t know the variance was that high. If true, that’s a huge discrepancy.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 13, 2010 8:58 PM PST up reply actions  

In a 162-game season?

It’s not a very large discrepancy at all.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, for projections there's basically a 54 game range.

Almost no one wins fewer than 54 or more than 108, and I can’t imagine any team could have been reasonably projected to do either.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 14, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly then.

If what you wrote means that a Pythag’s margin of error might, 2.5 percent of the time, predicts an 81 win, 81 loss team while the team actually goes at least 91-71; that’s an unacceptable prediction tool.

If it means that the margin of error predicts an 81-81 season when the true win/loss outcome is at (or better than) 86-76, 2.5% of the time then that is reasonable. Which is it?

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 14, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Pythag is not a projection system

It’s a way of telling you whether a team was lucky or unlucky within a given season.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 14, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I penciled them in tongue-in-cheek

Assuming the Angels are just going to be much better because you can pencil in Morales to return to his pre-broken legs numbers is roughly the same as giving those guys .850 OPS. Dye took several years to recover from a broken leg and never really recovered as a defensive player.

I was just saying as long as we fill in the hole at 3rd base for the Angels and give them Kendry Morales back to full strength, we might as well give the A’s bullish projections at DH and LF relative to last year. Or, we can just make modest projections for both, which seems to be the most prudent.

Jeremy was safe. He jumped over the tag.

by mrrickyg on Dec 14, 2010 8:56 AM PST up reply actions  

You had BETTER not resign your AN membership

I quite like you and you’re not going anywhere, mister. And that’s final.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

thanks

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 12, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions  

here in afghanistan, we have many goats

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 12, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

That has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING

{call me}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

as I said, we have many goats

You like?

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 12, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I have no particular opinion on that matter

{TEXT me}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

hehehehe

Our goats are fun.
Or good eating.
Depending on your proclivities.
tweettweettweet (the rock’in robin rocks in his treetop all day long) Ohhhh, yeah, we old.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 12, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

um don't you have to have a cell phone to be texted?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

It does help, I suppose.

But I say “tweet me” sometimes and I don’t have a Twitter account, so go figs.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Sing me no song.

Read me no rhyme.
Don’t waste my time.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I appreciate this.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I think PL just meant it to be a light joke

not a big deal. And if he had said it to anyone other than DFA, it probably would have just flown by as only that.

That said, when you know you have a history of getting into bad spats with a certain person, regardless of what the reason is, that needs to be a warning to you that you need to just back off about responding to that particular person. I know many of us on this thread have had to do that at one time or another.

Sometimes two people just rub each other the wrong way and always get into fights. There comes a point where there’s nothing to be gained in trying to figure out why or whose fault it is, you just need to learn not to respond the person who is that way with you.

PL knows he has a history with DFA, and that’s why I think even if he just meant this as a light-hearted joke and nothing more, he still ought to know to just lay off.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

eggs actly

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 12, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

While definitely a joke

Given their history (and quite frankly given his history) I sincerely doubt there was anything “light-hearted” about PL’s joke.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

"joke"

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 12, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions  

If this was 2 other users I could dismiss it as a joke

Unfortunately, PL knew full well what he was getting in to.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

this.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

They bought their tickets.

They knew what they were getting into.

I say, let em crash!

And the last remnants memory destroys.

by Leopold Bloom on Dec 13, 2010 12:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Hee hee

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 13, 2010 5:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't see it as him joking

But I’m sure he’ll be around sooner or later to tell us all how unfair we are to him, how little we respect him, and how this place sucks now.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 12, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes your "both sides are guilty" shtick is tiresome.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Its like the coat I bought two years ago. Its getting more and more worn every day.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Not write "Flagged"

I think writing flagged should be stopped on AN. If you want to flag, hit ACTIONS then FLAG. No need to type it – just starts this bickering that really gets in the way of baseball.

by SeanR on Dec 12, 2010 7:09 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

flagged

for being sagacious

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Yup.

Flag the comment, let the user get a well-earned “strike,” and let the post get comments about the topic. This way…well you can see what happens.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I would support that as a CG addition

But it isn’t a rule now, and lots do it.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 8:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't

I don’t see it stopping anything. If anything, the comment will sit there like bait for the first person to call the baiter an ass. Calmly saying that was inappropriate and that it was flagged was a sensible thing to do. It called out the comment without escalating it. The escalating only occurred when a third party decided to react poorly to it…

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Can't say I feel strongly, but I think I come down the other way

Either way, might be worth resolving so we don’t get people yelling when it happens.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about this

I think it can be important to write flagged, especially for new members, so that others can understand what is flag worthy and what is not.
Let’s face it, few people read the CGs before they join, and when they start seeing words like “flagged” and “CGVs” floating around, I believe it encourages them to understand what it means.
It definitely worked for me.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Not sure this would be the right time and place

Better to say “flagged” when it’s not you who’s being CGVed and when it’s not on a thread you specifically don’t want to see derailed.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

I’m not trying to create meta by writing this, just figured I would chime in.
Sorry!

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm taking that as an insult!!!!!!

And you always do this!!!!!! AND IT’S ALWAYS ABOUT 1/4 OF THE WAY INTO A THREAD!!!!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

1/5th of the way

shit-for-brains

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

You're right, and I appreciate the correction.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 13, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

All right. I give.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 13, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Usually, my shtick is that neither side is guilty.

I thought that this time I said PL was guilty. Where did I say DFA has done anything wrong in this case?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Aren't you referring to DFA as the responder
That said, when you know you have a history of getting into bad spats with a certain person, regardless of what the reason is, that needs to be a warning to you that you need to just back off about responding to that particular person. I know many of us on this thread have had to do that at one time or another.

Sometimes two people just rub each other the wrong way and always get into fights. There comes a point where there’s nothing to be gained in trying to figure out why or whose fault it is, you just need to learn not to respond the person who is that way with you.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions  

No. Both times where I said "respond/ing"

I meant PL78. He knows the two of them have friction.

DFA wrote a post. PL78 jumped in early and made a smart-ass remark. I’m saying maybe you can do that with someone you’re friendly with, but you should know not to do it with someone you have a history with.

If it were the other way around, then yes it would work both ways. But it’s not the other way around. It’s all on PL78 here, in my opinion.

Sorry I didn’t make that more clear in my comment. I can see how it might have been read not how I intended.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough

Don’t mind me then.

I thought you were saying DFA’s response was bad too.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Good post...
The tension on this site has become unbearable.

…and I especially agree with this. Of late, the place has really taken a downturn.

That said, I do not expect it to be permanent. Most internet forums “ebb and flow” from time to time, and I’m thinking (hoping) this is merely a down time for AN and that we will rebound.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 12, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions  

"downturn of late"

always happens in the off season

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 7:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I think this one is particularly bad.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:34 PM PST up reply actions  

prolly

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Nah

The PT incident was way worse.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions  

it was

that was also around the time that something else major happened, But I can’t remember. Anyway those two things were pretty focused, recently meta is every serious thread

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

The serious-thread folks are way more meta-prone

than the non-serious-thread folks.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

well yeah... but that was spring training and it was pretty much the only incident that year.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 12:41 AM PST up reply actions  

oh shit that was the same year? I thought that was the year before.

oh yea ok well last year was really pleasant then and messed with my expectations

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 1:05 AM PST up reply actions  

wait, was that between '09 and '10 or '08 and '09?

Dude, I’m confused now too…I think it actually was between ’08 and ’09. My bad.

It all runs together after a while. But there is always meta in the off-season. It’s how we bond.

Caring and sharing.

And the last remnants memory destroys.

by Leopold Bloom on Dec 13, 2010 1:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Seems so.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 12, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

2 years ago I think, for the most part, we were all happy go lucky. Last offseason was ok, but I would agree that this year we’ve seen quite a bit more animosity than ever.

Although I believe it started around August or September…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

These are especially difficult times --

I’m seeing just as much animosity, tension, and angst in “real life” offline.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it should be a requirement this offseason

That everyone threatens to permanently leave AN at least once…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

And then leaves AN permanently at least three times.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I'm leaving AN!

I’m going to bed and will NOT be back!

Well, until I’m bored tomorrow

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 13, 2010 1:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I leave AN every year

around mid-February.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

But you keep returning, dammit.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I only do that every fourth mid-February

though I also do it every fourth mid-August, and every mid-March.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 9:53 PM PST up reply actions  

But never at dusk

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 13, 2010 5:38 AM PST up reply actions  

early mid evening

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 13, 2010 6:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Hey . . . are you small?

Nobody expects some kind of obscure Monty Python allusion.

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 13, 2010 7:00 AM PST up reply actions  

This incident or this off-season?

I took your comment to mean this off-season, because that’s what you responded to, but others are talking about it as if you meant this incident.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 12, 2010 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

nah. Just a lot fresher.

Baseball will come and wash away all our sins, AN.

No worries.

Oh, and I hate you all. Die. Die. Die.

And don’t forget that January is “It’s All Nico’s Fault” month here on AN. Bring the kids.

And the last remnants memory destroys.

by Leopold Bloom on Dec 13, 2010 12:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, goody!

 I always wonder why kids get coal in their stockings. It must be for lighting a fire under his…

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 13, 2010 8:46 AM PST up reply actions  

I think the Cust non-tender escalated the flame war

No greater battle exists on AN (or in baseball in general) than stats vs. eyes, and we all had to have one final throwdown as Kust was on his way out. With a return extremely unlikely for him, every emptied their chambers in the epic final battle of Custian value vs. worthlessness!

Tension has been higher since.

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on Dec 13, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I almost spit out my coffee

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 13, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

I honestly think that the real battle is...

…between pessimists and optimists.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 13, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Then it'll never get better.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 13, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes it will!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 13, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Wrong!

I’m surprised you could write something so utterly ridiculous and patently stupid.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 13, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I think of myself as an optimist, but I'm guessing others view me differently

Does anyone view themselves as a pessimist?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 13, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

That's my line

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 13, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

This!

A trillion times this.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 13, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL. A running joke on AN

is how the site has always “gotten worse lately,” according to commenters, no matter when you read. Either AN peaked on day one and has steadily declined every day since, or else perception and reality differ.

I should add that AN was a lot better before I typed this comment.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it had a specific heyday for the type of commentary i like... and it was before I stopped lurking

I think this offseason the meta has been worse (though not necessarily the site)

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

The meta's always worse when there's less going on

I actually think the quality of posts, as well as the overall traffic (i.e., folks who add a lot to the site not ditching, or even resurfacing) has been good.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 7:55 PM PST up reply actions  

On top of that there seems to be more frustration than past seasons over the roster and ballpark situation

I think people understand that the A’s have a fairly small window of opportunity to do something with the current roster.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Dec 12, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

The content is better now than it was for most of the season.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions  

That's appropriate to the situation

During the season, game threads and recaps dominate; during the off-season analysis and teachings dominate.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure

I’m agreeing that the quality of posts has been good

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Sigh.

We never fight anymore.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Asshole

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Flagged for

profanity accuracy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Dammit.

If that doesn’t work….

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I have participated in many Internet communities over the years

and even some postal communities before that.

A common theme in all of them is that there was a “good old days” when everything was better than it is now. But for each person, those good old days happen to be when he joined and it was still fresh for him.

What changes is not the community, but our relationship to it.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 8:03 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Yes, zines and letters and stuff.

Even before the Internet people who were fans of this or that found ways to communicate with strangers they had never met before in real life. Hard to believe, I know.

You know how poor primitive people with bad Internet connection have to have their Netflix movies brought to them as CDs? Well, that same system that carries Netflix CDs — for reasons lost to history, they called it the “postal service” — used to carry paper versions of emails and blogs, too.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 8:47 AM PST up reply actions  

AN's been kind of a postal community lately

Or at least a going-postal community.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

This is a much better way of saying what I said in Nico's thread about Cliff Lee.

The bottom line is that the Angels getting Lee sinks the A’s chances… even if the A’s get Beltre.

If the Angels have to get a big name, I’d rather they sign Beltre and hope he busts.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 1:43 PM PST reply actions  

No it doesn't -- my point is that

it brings Texas down, LAA and Oakland up, putting all three teams in a similar window. Whereas if Texas re-signs Lee they’re a cut above the others, and if the A’s don’t get Beltre they’re a cut below the others, no matter what.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Ehem...
This is a much better way of saying what I said in Nico’s thread about Cliff Lee.

by elcroata on Dec 12, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

If Texas gets Lee then the A's should blow up the team because they will not compete in the current core's window

Texas will be significantly better than the A’s for the forseeable future. If the Angels get lee hen the A’s should blow up the team because they will not compete in the current core’s window and the Angels will be significantly better than the A’s for the forseeable future.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Blow it up for what? 2013? 2017? 2020?

Then what happens when it doesn’t pan out in 2013? Do we blow it up for 2017? Then if that doesn’t pan out do we blow it up for 2020?

That what the Royals and Pirates do… not the A’s.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

The Royals are far more likely than the A's to be competitive in 2013.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Dude, between you and PT with the pessimistic crap

maybe the A’s should just be contracted.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Im not as pessimistic as him.

But If I were Beane Id be signing Lee. That might save the team.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Sign Lee, Beltre, and trade Kouz for Kemp. Thx.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh. I don' think you sign Beltre in that context.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Lee in the Coli... with our defense.

If those can do what they did for someone like Cahill, imagine what it would do for Lee. Now wake up.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Also keeps him away from Thousand Oaks.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

eh... I wouldn't sign Beltre if I was the Angles. its a 2 2.5 WAR upgrade and theyre broke.

go get an OFer.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

We're on the verge of being competitive right now.

The whole idea is to compete. When you compete… actually play the games… anything can happen. You might do well. The other team might suck, or have an injury-riddled year. Sometimes I think what you want is a guarantee. Guarantees are ever-elusive. They don’t exist.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 12, 2010 7:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I just cant agree with the assessment that the A's are on the verge of being competitive right now.

I think theyre on the verge of being a 86 win team.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

We needed to add a star, we had the money to add a star

We didn’t add a star.

Now we’re going to be in the 10-15% chance range, at best.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 9:04 PM PST up reply actions  

but

an 86 win team has to have a large enough standard deviation for it to be worth putting out there, doesn’t it? The projections you are using all have such variance around them that I think if you have 86 as your center point, its not ridiculous for some of us on here to be okay with that…

by SeanR on Dec 13, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

It kinda is when you consider that the Rangers are a 94 win squad.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Without Cliff Lee?

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Dec 13, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll take the under for $1000 thank you

In all seriousness, I’d be very interested in seeing you and PT and all others who like predicting wins make a list of all your predictions, then see how they compare to the Vegas lines. I would guess the Rangers over under will only be 87 or 88…but that doesn’t mean you wouldn’t win money betting the over.

by SeanR on Dec 13, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't agree, in that, to get Lee, 7 years are required.

The history of 7-year deals for 32-yr-old pitchers aren’t very good over-all. I think it gives the Angles a huge advantage year 1-2, maybe even -3, and then hamstrings them years 4-7. The trouble with that is, years i-2-3 are our best competitive years. It certainly screws us, but it also screws the Angles, long-term. The best, by far, result of the Lee auction, is that the Yanks get him. And they seem to actually be interested…

And what Yankee want, Yankee get…

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on Dec 12, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

seriously though

where do the yankees draw a line?

by NRC on Dec 12, 2010 1:43 PM PST reply actions  

There is no line

YES rakes in too much money for New York . . .

LOS ANGELES ANGELS . . . ANAHEIM DUCKS . . . CALIFORNIA GOLDEN BEARS

FUCK STANFURD.

by AndyHogan14 on Dec 12, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

ha

still figuring out the reply function apparently

by NRC on Dec 12, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

So, basically, if Lee signs within the AL West, it's time to start sacrificing animals and sticking pins into voodoo dolls?

Sigh.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 1:56 PM PST reply actions  

yup. this is why ive been saying to blow the team up for a year.

I bet we could get a haul for Cahill, Gio, BA, Suzuki, Bailey, etc

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

And lose the remaining 10k fans you have

You NEED to understand that this is not OOTP or some other baseball sim where stats act in a vacuum. There are real emotional and business concerns at play, not just roster crunching.

by SeanR on Dec 12, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions  

BINGO

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions  

And building a culture of losing?

How do your numbers account for that?

What about getting a call from the commissioners office for not spending enough money?

What about leaping to the top of the rankings for possible teams to contract?

Just because you may not enter a season a FAVORITE does not mean you shouldn’t try to COMPETE. Quite frankly, the insinuation that you would even consider that is disturbing.

by SeanR on Dec 12, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The commissioners office doesn't care about money spent

as long as there is a reason that you aren’t spending the money besides you want to pocket the revenue sharing.

If you enter the season 10 games back… which is what the A’s are doing. They absolutely should not try to compete. Its just like selling at the trade deadline.

I don’t believe in a culture of losing.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn't that change a bit after the Ranger's bankruptcy?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

not really. I mean they don't want you bankrupting your team, but the A's are hardly there.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I could have sworn they instituted (or began reinforcing) a debt rule

That they couldn’t go into debt above a certain % of their franchise value.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Its true. But its has nothing to do with running a 40m payroll out there.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, my bad

I had that conversation in reverse thinking you were talking about over spending, not under spending.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

This blowing up the team, in my estimation isn't a culture of losing mentality?

The last rebuild is peaking, now is not the time to abandon the 2 or 3 years of contention left.

by hishnik on Dec 12, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

that is an incomprehensible comment.

also what part of were 10 games back for the conceivable future if not worse screams 2 or 3 years of contention?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Start with the fact that the rotation is better than you think

and continue with the fact that the A’s have the money to sign Beltre, or trade for Beltran (or any other high salary player they might be able to get without trading away really good players), and end with the fact that these improvements coupled with Texas losing Lee would leave the A’s “in the thick of it” right now, and it’s not all gloom and doom.

I’m more troubled by the fact that the team dealt away Gonzalez, the one star position player they had in the making, and wouldn’t re-sign Cust, which would have been relative cheap and easy.

The dumb decisions bother me, but the potential is there for the A’s to make smart decisions and be very good.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

"the rotation is better than you think"

I don’t agree, but I must admit I chuckled at the burn.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions  

It had a subtle "Josh Donaldson" crust.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Its really not though but hell lets say its 1.5 WAR better than I think

guess what, that improvement will be masked by the defense regressing 15 runs. Texas Losing Lee makes them go from being 12 games ahead to 9. Not what I would call the thick of it.

This is really something the A’s cant fix without signing Lee.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I doubt that

The A’s have no flashy, star-type players. I can’t see getting more than a handful of B- prospects for those guys.

In other words, I see your hopelessness and raise you one. Rebuilding is just as hopeless as any other plan.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

And at least if we don't blow the team up...

We can have a few exciting games in September and October.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Handful of B- prospects for those guys??

Whaaa???

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Not for all of them (I don't think).

It would be difficult to get top prospects from teams though. Maybe Gio and Brett Anderson if he has a healthy 2010.

by rebus on Dec 12, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I know

But I can see several scenarios where all of BA, Cahill, and Gio command far better than B- prospects.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I cant see any where they don't

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

The pitchers will fetch a good deal... Look at what Garza got

everyone else? B-/C+ guys true but they will accompany the returns from dealing Cahill BA Gio Braden.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Delmon Young, Jason Pridie and Brendan Harris?

Oh, and the Twins traded Jason Bartlett, too? Forgive me for failing to be excited at the prospect of packages like that one. That’s like dealing Cliff Pennington and Trevor Cahill for Josh Vitters and two Cubs backups.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Nah, the A's don't target grit and tools.

They value injuries and not being able to hit well enough for your defensive position.

by rebus on Dec 12, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Thats a lot of hindsight

Delmon was a former top 25 prospect who’s stock was very high, Harris was considered slightly better than Bartlett and Pridie was a good spec.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

He's a top 25 prospect who got dumped because one of the smartest front offices in baseball

knew that he was actually junk.

And there is no way on God’s green earth that Brendan Harris was “considered slightly better than Bartlett.” He was terrible in 2007— he was sold for cash, then couldn’t hold his job on an awful team despite the fact that his only competition was Ben Zobrist (who, for all his skills, is not a major-league quality shortstop).

Pridie was old for a prospect and projected as a backup outfielder.

No. Even at the time all the smart analysts were saying that the Twins lost the deal. In hindsight, it looks ridiculous, rather than just a weak move, but it was a weak move at the time.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok then

Shaun Marcum was just traded straight up for Brett Lawrie, who is at least a B+ guy. You don’t think any of BA, Gio, or Cahill would have gotten him, at the very least?

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

That trade did nothing to help Toronto become competitive

I certainly wouldn’t bother with it were I the A’s GM.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

qua?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Lawrie is overrated, IMO

That trade is a definite win for Milwaukee

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Definite Lilly-for-Kielty feel to it for me

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

He needs a position, but Marcum wasn't helping toronto now.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait, how was Marcum not helping Toronto?

He was great last year.
Frankly, their best chance to compete might be right now if they can catch lightning in a bottle…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Id blow it up. AA has the political capital to do so and they have a promising minor league team.

Eat you crappy contracts and start over.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll agree to disagree

But I can definitely understand why you’d do this.
Thing is, when is Toronto ever going to get a real chance again?

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

It illustrates the limitations/risks of blowing up the A's now...

…just for a chance of competitiveness 2-3 years from now.

Nice piece on the Angles, but I don’t think they have the money to sign Lee. They’d have to overbid ($22-24 mil a year?), and I doubt they’d be able to backload the contract the way you suggest. That’s certainly not in Lee’s interests.

I also have serious doubts about the Ranger’s ability to replicate their 2010 performance (which in most years would not have been enough to win the division). There are several not-so-young players coming off of career years (or years well above their career averages) who I’m not sure are good bets to repeat at that level/stay healthy. Sure, if they sign Lee, they’re less likely to regress — but they had Lee for half the year, so keeping him doesn’t provide that as much of a boost as it might appear.

by andyinfremont on Dec 12, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

You had me searching the net for "Garza traded"

Until I realized it was the old trade you were talking about

by elcroata on Dec 12, 2010 11:09 PM PST up reply actions  

You too, huh?

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2010 12:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I just can see the Angels going to 7 years. If he sucks for the Yanks in years 5,6,7 it doesn’t matter. For the Angels or Rangers that is a big pill to swallow.

by Slide Giambi on Dec 12, 2010 2:02 PM PST reply actions  

Not really. The Angles cant sustain their core for 3 years. So 2013 would be our next window.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

But that's only if everything pans out for the A's betwee now and then.

So what happens when it’s 2013 and our system isn’t any better than it is right now? Then we kick the can to 2017?

I’m sick of this. As a fan who has no financial stake in the team… that just sucks.

by Brett Narloch on Dec 12, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Even if everything pans out I expect the Rangers to be better in 2013 anyway.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you feel like it's worth doing pieces like this on the other AL West teams?

I’d be highly interested in reading that.

I’m a little wary of forecasting 2+ seasons out with such certainty when there are so many variables in play. Of course it makes sense to cash in the current talent for future talent and top prospects by way of being a basement dweller for a couple of seasons, but I wonder if the chance of payoff is worth sacrificing the slim chances they’d have in a Lee to Angels scenario.

by rebus on Dec 12, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I could do the Rangers if I have time.

but honestly I was sick from work this week which is why I had time to do this.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

You say that like we have to wait in line for our turn.

As if only one team is allowed to be good at a time. Shoot, if we spend all this effort trying to wait for the perfect opportunity, the Mariners will sneak and get a division title before we do.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 12, 2010 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

i wouldn't be surprised if that happened either. They are probably better off for long term competition too.

Their GM is smarter to boot.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I doubt that

Z-man got a lot of initial love, but he’s made plenty of baffling decisions since. The Morrow trade was egregiously stupid.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed.

He did a pretty good job of unloading a few bad contracts, but hasn’t really impressed me so far.

by Hoegaarden on Dec 12, 2010 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

This

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn't realize Haren was so cheap

He picked the wrong time to sign his extension…

by DrDoom on Dec 12, 2010 2:02 PM PST reply actions  

I get the feeling we will be treading water for the significan’t future. As we know, we can’t give our money away, and unless Carter or someone comes out of nowhere our offense will continued to struggle. Unless of course in the next couple of days we sign Beltre and Thome.

by Slide Giambi on Dec 12, 2010 2:11 PM PST reply actions  

Yes, DFA did a really good job.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 12, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks both of you... It means a lot.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Wonderful piece, thanks for the effort.

It took a lot of work to make this as clear as it is, and it’s crystal clear. I too am very very close to suggesting the blowup of the current roster.

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Dec 12, 2010 3:03 PM PST reply actions  

Thank you. I appreciate the rec

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Very well done, dfa

I appreciate the amount of work that went into this post – very informative.

Now there's nothing left to say, so let's go drink beer.

by doctorK on Dec 12, 2010 3:09 PM PST reply actions  

Thanks.

I really appreciate you pointing out the amount of work that goes into one of these. It is a huge amount of work. Just trying to get the google spreadsheet to embed took two hours this morning. Its one of the reasons why I get parsnickity when people suggest that throwing up whatever half baked idea is just as valuable as what some of us like NSJ PT etc do with regard to trades and FA signings. Id like to think that this kind of work helps every one understand more rather than just saying “Sign player X”

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Ditto on the props from my good friend doctorK!

The spreadsheet is really cool, and once I got to the end, I could really see the WAR productions you were describing.

At night, before I go to sleep, I mutter to myself “margin of error is 5 WAR, margin of error is 5 WAR…” Better than crying.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 12, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

The time you put into this shows in its quality.

Thank you for doing the research and the legwork here, DFA. Very informative on the Angel’s budget situation this year and coming years.

A full time A's fan in Portland who spends part of his time on AN.
Not so much tweeting as squawking: http://www.twitter.com/yusebio

by yusebio on Dec 12, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

What's the source of the Angels losing $10m this year?

I read that somewhere else, too, but I missed where it came from. I assume that’s talking about 2010 operating income, right? But the Forbes reports don’t come out until next spring. Who else is reporting on this?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 4:04 PM PST reply actions  

Linky.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks.

It’s good to have it put into context.

I wish Mark Saxon’s unnamed source would have been more specific. Even assuming the information is 100% accurate, there are just so many different things that could be meant by “lost”.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Brandon Wood

You seem to be offering the fact that the Angels played Brandon Wood even though he had negative WAR as a reason to expect the Angels to project better next year. I’m not sure I agree with that. I get your point: that it’s an opportunity for them to increase wins simply by just not doing it … but I think you also have to face up to the fact that they had that exact same opportunity in 2010, too. I mean, they had plenty of other options, right? And yet they played Brandon Wood anyway. Damned if I understand why, but if I’m being Bayesian about it, it makes me project them weaker than their possible WAR because it suggests they could do something equally stupid again next year.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 4:13 PM PST reply actions  

In some other thread (I'm not good at the search function), someone pointed out that pretty much all teams have some below-replacement performance.

I think this was to point out that the “two Matts” problem is not exclusive to the As. Everyone has holes that they may not have been able to predict at season’s start.

Your poem here.

by paris7 on Dec 12, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

The won't because they have Alberto Callaspo who they acquired to play 3b.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

The reason they played him is that they believed that he could still be a great player

Now, they probably don’t believe that anymore (though they might— then again, they might even be right).

It’s hard to fault them when there’s been such an enormous disconnect between Wood’s minor and major league performance so far in his career. We’re talking about a former #3 overall prospect here.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

He's always had K problems IIRC

And it seems that almost all of the Angels’ minor league parks are insanely good hitting environments. Still though, I agree I didn’t foresee him being this terrible.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

It does seem that way at times

That’s why I’m chary about putting Trout in the very top echelons. Others like him (Wood, Kendrick, Mathis) have failed.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Pam misses so much by skipping these conversations....

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

What, my use of the word "chary"?

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Kind of "misuse," I hate to say

I think you mean “wary” — unless you only put Trout in the top echelons every once in a while.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Hm?

Merriam-Webster, skipping over the irrelevant bits:

discreetly cautious: as
a : hesitant and vigilant about dangers and risks

I think that’s pretty spot-on.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Well ONE of us certainly doesn't know the definition

Let’s not quibble over minor details like who it might be.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I laughed.

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Dec 12, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Wary and chary are synonyms...

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

yes

to both Nico and Stranahan: yes, chary and wary have similar meanings, but there is a difference in nuance, and I thought Paul used that nuance intentionally and well.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but Trout's already a plus defensive center fielder

with plus-plus speed. Even if his bat turns out to be average (which I don’t think will happen) he’ll be really freaking good.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

All three of the guys I just cited were either considered to be plus gloves or at more difficult defensive positions than Trout

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Mathis is a good catcher no?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually, try worst in all of baseball:

120 out of 120 for real.

A full time A's fan in Portland who spends part of his time on AN.
Not so much tweeting as squawking: http://www.twitter.com/yusebio

by yusebio on Dec 12, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I saw that

I would think that its pretty good in the overall sense, but it had some surprising results.

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

thats so strange considering hes got a good rep and they won't play napoli because of his d

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Doesn't "they" == Mike Scosia though?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 7:38 PM PST up reply actions  

good point

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I swear that managers shouldn't be allowed to make decisions for positions they used to play.

Too many have clouded judgments. We should have a DM… Designated Manager for those situations.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 12, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Special Management Committee?

[Sorry, my Corporations exam was less than two weeks ago…]

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Works for me.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 13, 2010 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

And here I was about to say "Bob Geren FTW"

But I did a quick search and apparently he played catcher in the big leagues. I guess it’s still Bob Geren FTL.

Carry on. Business as usual.

by jali on Dec 13, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions  

How has this shmuck gotten playing time?

He’s like the worst player in the history of baseball.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

How many guys have 1000+ PA and an OPS of .576 or less?

He’s got, like, Deadball Era numbers. Wow.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 12, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Neifi?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Ray Oyler is about the worst hitter I can possibly think of

He got 1445 PA despite having an OPS of .508. However, he played during a viciously pro-pitcher era. Mathis has him beaten on OPS+ 53 to 48, but Oyler was reputedly a good glove at short (how else would he have gotten that many PA with a career .175 average?) and, as noted, Mathis seems to suck at defense, too.

It’s a serious competition, anyway. Anytime you’re in a serious competition for suck with Ray Oyler, you’re really, really terrible.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Mark Belanger? Johnnie LeMaster? Rob Picciolo? Chicken Stanley?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Belanger was a truly elite glove man, one of the best in history

He wasn’t just a reasonably okay player, he was actually an outright good one.

LeMaster and Stanley were horrid, but not quite on the level of Oyler.

Picciolo was damn close, because he played in an era which was less offensively challenged and because he was apparently pretty lame with the glove as well as with the bat. He was definitely an amazingly terrible infielder.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I just meant horrific hitters, not horrific players

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

HEY!

I’m not that bad!!!

I’m hurt.

Horrid?

ow

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as frack? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Dec 13, 2010 1:04 AM PST up reply actions  

BTW, Picciolo walked 4 times one season.

Not a patient man.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Mario Mendoza is down there, too

Good lord that guy sucked. He might be the worst of all. OPS+ of 41. Holy crap. What an epitaph: “Outhit by Ray Oyler.”

Looking at his similarity comps, Jackie Hernandez, who I’ve (thankfully) never heard of before today, also managed some amazingly sucktastic seasons.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

He shares that distinction with--

Eh, better not mention her.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

You know you want to

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 13, 2010 5:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Mendoza is certainly bad

But this guy takes the cake. I mean, he’s like the Jason Neighborgall of hitters.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

WOW

How does a team manage to give a guy 250 PAs in a year when he puts together a -4 OPS?!?!
Yes, that’s right
MINUS 4.
That has got to be a record.

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Brandon Wood had an OPS+ of 5 this season

and baseball is far more competitive, not to mention analytically well-understood, than it was in the dead ball era.

I’m going to say Wood was worse.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2010 1:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn't realize his was

that bad.
And I would agree with you there. Wood really shat the bed in the 2nd half…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 13, 2010 1:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Also, the 1911 guy

had top-notch defense, which I’m pretty sure Brandon Wood doesn’t.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 9:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I love that his middle name is

Aloysius.

The Wikipedia article on the guy is an interesting read. Especially to surprise kicker at the end.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 8:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Whoa!

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 13, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Really?

Mathis sure, but I don’t remember Kendrick’s glove being considered plus, and Wood has certainly always at least had questions about his defensive home, hasn’t he?

In the end, though, I guess it just all comes back to the fact that Trout’s bat is just more polished than the other guys’ were. He doesn’t have the K problems that Wood did, his success isn’t solely average-fueled like Kendrick’s, and his offensive tools blow Mathis’ out of the water.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Isn't Bourjos supposed to be a plus defender in center?

how far out is trout?

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I dont know about plus

Like I said above, he’s definitely above average. You’d probably be better served asking an Angels fan, though.

Trout will probably start next season in AA and if he hits I wouldn’t be surprised to see him by September.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I dont know about plus

Like I said above, he’s definitely above average. You’d probably be better served asking an Angels fan, though.

Trout will probably start next season in AA and if he hits I wouldn’t be surprised to see him by September.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah thats the thing Bourjos was most know for

 Sean Smith’s TotalZone ratings loved him:

According to the TotalZone defensive metric, Bourjos has saved 31.4 runs over his peers per 150 games throughout his minor league career. Those defensive stats are relative to his minor league competition, so they’re not entirely indicative of how Bourjos will stack up against major leaguers,

Angel scouts loved him:

Angels’ Manager of Baseball Operations Tori Hernandez gave an interview last month where he called Bourjos, “one of the best defensive outfielders that we’ve ever seen, and when I say ever, I mean in the history of baseball.”
[Eddie Bane quotes] should settle for an “above average defender who can go get the ball, ala Devon White.”

Its all about what offense on top of the defense Peter Bourjos can offer.

by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 12, 2010 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Unlike hero Im comfortable calling him plus. I just think plus is +10 rather than + 17

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Finally got a chance to give this as thorough of a read as it deserves.

Great stuff, DFA. If you’re up to the task, I’d love to see something similar on Texas and Seattle.

by danmerqury on Dec 12, 2010 4:29 PM PST reply actions  

Shouldn't that be on Lone Star Ball and Lookout Landing?

{too soon?}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you that those are blogs that I don't write for?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Sentence without verb

This fun!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

cavemAN

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 13, 2010 12:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Nico, stop silly.

I love to baseball.

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on Dec 13, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

This rules.

Take your silver mod tubescreamer, your dr. z, your nocaster, put them in a pile and burn them. if god gave you a thousand years, you still couldn't touch this. you can't f***ing keep time to this.

by Elvez on Dec 12, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

god i screwed that up. Do you know that....

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

The correct response was,

“You realize that I don’t write for those blogs, right?”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

wah wah

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

UM NO

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Seattle is too bleck to do. I might do one with Texas, but I likely won't have the time and I think figuring out their financials is harder with their new ownership and TV deal.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think that there are only a select handful of people

who have any idea just how much money Texas is able and willing to spend in the next 5 years…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you realize that I only do things that make you feel worse about the A's?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Ha. It works!

You and PT are killing my hope for this team’s future (the FO’s moronic behavior recently doesn’t help).

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 12, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

yay...

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:14 PM PST up reply actions  

hahaha

I’m gonna rec this…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

If you're up to the task

I’d also like you to do my laundry and change my oil. Should take considerably less time!

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on Dec 13, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Recommended!

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 12, 2010 4:31 PM PST reply actions  

appreciated.

Are there any assumptions that you think I made unfairly?

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

That replying publicly to PL78 would end well?

Oh, you meant about the article thingy!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually I do have a question, 2 statements caught my eye and seemed somewhat contradictory to me.

In your first sentence after listing the LAAAAAAAAAAAA prospects, you said the system was

a pretty unmitigated disaster, plus Mike Trout,

and then right after that:

I think the Angels can reasonably expect to get a Catcher (Conger), two OFers in Bourjos and Trout, a 2bman (Amarista), perhaps a viable DH in Trumbo and a fair number of Bullpen arms a few of which can fill in as a 5th starter.

Here’s what I don’t get — how can a system be a disaster if you reasonably expect 5-7 major leaguers, and at the same time if the A’s system is equally disastrous does that mean we can expect Donaldson, Taylor, Brown, Cardenas, Carter, and a few bullpen guys out of THAT too?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm thinking we have 1 bullpen guy... (of the 2 from Toronto)

Carter, and maybe 2 or 3 others in there. Along with 2 or 3 pitchers with injuries that have a shot at being bullpen arms or #4/5 starters if they can rebound.

by sums95 on Dec 12, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Neither of the Davis trade returns will be more than glorified middle reliever.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Well their farm had a lot of A's like collapses last year. Also a lot of them aren't going to be good.

Also I don’t really think that Bourjos’ is +17 with the glove like Chone thinks. If he isn’t hes a 1.5 WAR Player even with a +10. Trumbo is like -14 runs with the bat right now. Armista is .5 WAR and could be a back up next year. I see two league average position players at the end of the day.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:13 PM PST up reply actions  

That makes more sense.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Reckling was the big one for sure

Chaffee also had a terrible year. Bachanov and Pettit got hurt. They also traded a ton of talent.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Chaffee, Bach, Petit were minor players though

Not really considered that highly. Obviously Bachanov could be, but still everyone thought his future lay in the bullpen anyway.

Reckling was the big one, and trades to Skaggs (mainly) have hit as well. But actually others have really stepped up (Trout, Segura, Richards, Chatwood – for half a season – Walden – in the majors).

That isn’t to say we had an amazing farm at the beginning of 2009 (it was average, maybe a tad below), but I would definitely wager it being ranked much higher overall this year (in the 10-20 top farms range).

by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 12, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions  

The didn't have a great farm and had regressions or traded their:

3
7
8
9
10
11
13
19
20
21 best prospect.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Walden is no longer a starter which means huge regression in value.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Not saying you're wrong (technically you're right)

But his grade this past year accounted for that. Previously he was a B+, but was put down to B- on account of lost value and having to move to relief. Still, he has back end of the bullpen quality and showed it for the big league club.

by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 12, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

his arm is likely to fall off too.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know about that

By all account, Bourjos’ glove is really really good, and he has plus speed. Lots of people are still high on Trout, and Amarista I could see carving out a Callaspo-like career, though he is a personal favorite. Richards is a solid B pitching prospect, and it’s hard to find anybody these days who doesn’t think Segura will break out in a huge way next season. I definitely think this system (especially including this year’s draft) is not nearly the mess ours has become.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

accounts*

Trout should be Conger, no idea how that happened.

This is why we proofread, apparently

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I clearly ordered the congee

Pay attention or it’s coming out of your tip.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

True talent +17? I don't think its thaaaaaaaaaaaat good. Maybe +10 and then hes not great.

Conger had a ton of errors. Is Amarista better than Cardenas? I don’t think so. Id take Donaldson over Conger too but I think thats personal bias. Richards looks good, I love Cowart. The system is far better than ours which is probably bottom 5.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I can agree with that

I don’t know that Bourjos’ D will be that good, but still pretty decently above average. His bat does lag behind though.

There are at least a few people over at minorleagueball who are advocates of Conger and think his defense has really taken a step forward. Plus I think his bat is still very good.

Amarista probably isn’t better than Cardenas, but that’s not anything slanderous coming from me — I’ve been a big Cardenas fan since he was traded here.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Chone projects him to be -16 with the bat so he needs the +17 with the glove to be quality.

Conger had 12 errors in 63 defensive games. Thats horrendous.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Conger

His arm strength is good and he’s good at blocking balls. He didn’t allow any passed balls. His game-calling is reportedly good, though I don’t put much stock into that anyway. He just needs to work on his mechanics, and I wouldn’t put it past him to do so considering the improvements he’s already made defensively.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I seem to recall his errors were mostly a result of terrible throws to 2nd

His CS rate was poor…
He may have arm strength, but I don’t believe the accuracy is there…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah that's what I heard

I should have specified throwing mechanics when I referenced his mechanical issues. Good arm strength, bad arm accuracy. Which I think can be fixed.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it's not that they're unfair...

…it’s just that this:

The first important realization is that the Angels cannot compete going forward with the group of players they currently have over the next three years.

…cannot be known as certainty. It might be likely but it’s not cemeted as truth.

And also this:

It looks a lot like the A’s system, a pretty unmitigated disaster…

…is too hyperbolic for my tastes.

And finally, these so called windows of competition: things change way too often and progress/regression happen much too often to place a whole lot of stock into it. I honestly believe that most teams’ GMs have higher expectation of their systems’ prospects than many fans do. And I’m sure that they also expect improvement in their younger players as well. And it’s only when things look really dire do they decide to tear-down and rebuild. They still have to worry about appeasing some fans to cover operating costs.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 12, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Ill totally agree that GMs are far more reticent to tear down than an armchair GM.

There is a reason for that. They are likely to lose their jobs. No one is taking AN away from me.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Except that DFA asshole

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

your joke

.
.
.
my head

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

(your quitting decision would have taken this site away from you)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

My question to anyone: Why didn't the A's draft Trout?

The Angels haven’t been in a better draft position than the A’s over the past 6 years, yet which team manages to draft the awesome hitting prospect? LAA. Why?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Looking it up, I see the A's took Green at #13 and Trout went #25 overall.

Time will tell, but it looks to me as if Trout’s the better prospect.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

He wasn't the same awesome hitting prospect at the time of the draft. Just a very good one.

If drafting was an exact science, he would have been taken right after Strasburg.

by danmerqury on Dec 12, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

We need to be that shrewd team that figures this stuff out better than others

Even just 7% better. Just not 93% worse.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes, it just comes down to the odds.

They won the lottery with the Trout pick. It happens.

by danmerqury on Dec 12, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions  

EXCEPT IT NEVER HAPPENS TO US

Not that I’m bitter.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Forgive him [Nico], Father...

…for he does not know of that which he speaks.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 12, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Hudson?

Tejada?

Hell, Giambi was a second-rounder.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Harden? 13th.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry, I mean hitters.

Ideally since, y’know, last century.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Swisher?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 12, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions  

He's good, definitely

B+ good, IMO, but that’s legit. Sadly, he’s pretty much “cream of the crop” since Chavez/Tejada.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

We draft pretty well though.

The problem is the Free agent compensation system. If the poor poor small market Angels weren’t compensated for the terrible loss of a FA then they wouldn’t have had the pick and would have been stuck with Girchuck.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Grichuk was also a comp pick

They were in line to draft last, gave the pick away to the Rockies (who drafted Timothy Wheeler, not to be confused with Zach Wheeler) and signed multiple other type A free agents, yet got five first round picks.

The utter stupidity of a system in which two teams are mutually better off swapping their free agents than each re-signing their own player has to be seen to be believed.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Youre right.

One of my members son played with Girchuk and Tate in summer ball and was drafted by the Yankees in the 30th round. She said they offered him a cool million to pass on his schollarship but it wasn’t much. Anyway she kept insisting to me that Girchuk was better than Trout. I think Ill win that argument.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Grichuk sucks

Zero plate discipline. Delmon Young redux.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Delmon was at least suppose to defend

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Remove draft compensation and add pick trading?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Dec 12, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see why the two are connected in any way

I don’t like either of the two.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

No. They should prevent teams who sign a type A from receiving compensation

and then allow trading.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Only if they make the types make sense

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Kinda unfair given that the Angels haven't produced an impact hitter since, like, Garret Anderson

unless you count Napoli, which the Angels certainly don’t.

They’ve also had so many more draft picks than the A’s over the last few years (thanks to the idiotic compensation scheme) that weight of numbers definitely is in their favor.

Finally, I also think Trout’s getting oversold somewhat, though he’s clearly the best prospect in either system. He’s not a top 5 overall prospect.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Good to hear

Perhaps the hype is fishier than I feared.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong

He’s good. But more like #10-20 good than #1 overall good. He just hasn’t ascended high enough in the minors to draw that kind of ranking.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions  

They have Domonic Brown as #1 overall?

That’s odd. He’s a fine prospect, for sure, but I would never have tapped him for that.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Kendry Morales was a foreign pro

No, that does not count.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes it does when the foreign player has over 1300 minor league plate appearances

Over 4 minor league seasons.

To assume he would have performed straight out of Cuba is disingenuous. Especially considering how he looked when he first arrived (I’ve followed his career since then).

And it wasn’t like he was rated highly by major publications, fansites, scouts. He flew under the radar as other more highly touted guys (MacPherson, Kotchman etc) struggled.

by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 12, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, no

He got a major league contract.

Players do not get major league contracts as their first deal unless they are considered to be quite close to ready.

He was a smart free agent sign, for sure, but that’s what he was.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

But then do you count guys who get signed from college to a major league contract at 21 (the age Morales signed)

As not being developed by their club subsequently? Poor Dustin Ackley?

To designate a prospect by their contract is trying to fit an argument to suit a purpose.

by TheQuestforMerlin on Dec 12, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I don't really believe clubs "develop" hitters anyway, so I don't give a damn about that distinction

as I think it’s one without a difference.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm just saying, I think it's about who you sign, not about what you do once they sign

Before anyone asks, I don’t think that’s true of pitchers.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 8:11 PM PST up reply actions  

You're the first person

I’ve seen who wouldn’t have Trout in their top 5.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Dec 12, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not either

And I saw him play on multiple occasions…

All I can say about stats is…

SCOTT BROSIUS!!

by stranahanahan on Dec 12, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

They were rumored to be onto Trout and Tate right before the draft.

I liked Trout a lot at the time but I thought that that was an overdraft. That was one of the things about that draft, you either wanted to trade up or back… but you cant.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

In thinking about the minor league system and what might merit a sell off of major league talent, I looked at Sickel's '08 list minus the Swisher/Haren haul.

Daric Barton, 1B, Grade B+
James Simmons, RHP, Grade B
Henry Alberto Rodriguez, RHP, Grade B
Trevor Cahill, RHP, Grade B-
Corey Brown, OF, Grade B-
Andrew Bailey, RHP, Grade B-
Sean Doolittle, 1B, Grade B-
Javier Herrera, OF, Grade C+
Dan Meyer, LHP, Grade C+
Sam Demel, RHP, Grade C+
Andrew Carignan, RHP, Grade C+
Grant Desme, OF, Grade C+
Travis Banwart, RHP, Grade C+
Josh Horton, SS, Grade C+
Jermaine Mitchell, OF, Grade C

Jeff Baisley, Graham Godfrey, Dan Hamblin, Aaron Jenkins, Brad Kilby, Vince Mazzaro, Kevin Melillo, Cliff Pennington, Landon Powell, Jason Ray, Richie Robnett, Justin Sellers, and Matt Sulentic.

So bad.

by rebus on Dec 12, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

And yet, very possibly better than the current system

I’m not sure. It’s hard to separate out hindsight, since the A’s actually did really well on those C/C+ guys (clear hits on Demel, Pennington, and Mazzaro, semi-hits on Powell and Kilby, and what might have been a hit on Desme but for his curious decision to quit).

Honestly, repeating that’s about the best hope the A’s have going forward. I don’t exactly like the thought of relying that heavily on miracle performances from C prospects, though.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I think the current one is a smidge better.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Or hoping for health resurgences

Ynoa, FDLS, and Doolittle’s stumbles really haven’t helped.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Half the damn system had Tommy John last season

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

And the other half had elbow surgery!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

He did until he turned 39.

Ever since then, he’s been Jack Benny.

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 13, 2010 12:31 AM PST up reply actions  

That looks like a whole lot of work

Rec’d!

"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10

by MissOakland on Dec 12, 2010 4:34 PM PST reply actions  

much appreciated.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m hearing that Matsui and #Athletics could be close to an agreement. Working to confirm.

Joe Stiglich

by Slide Giambi on Dec 12, 2010 6:25 PM PST reply actions  

::sigh:: Yeah, the A's just aren't interested in putting the best team on the field this year

Intentionally going after clearly inferior players is not what smart teams that want to win do.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 12, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Thome? Magglio? I dunno, I think Matsui is right about at the "Oh my god, why is this guy taking at bats away from Matt Carson?" level of falling off the cliff

And, really, since this A’s team is going to win anything anyway, why waste money on Matsui?

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 12, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions  

My real problem is that they targeted him and have ignored other players, some still in the organization, who are better options

I think Matsui is the worst of all available DH options. I’d rather have Thome, Magglio, Vlad, Manny, or Branyan.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Dec 12, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Perhaps they feel that they don't have a real shot at signing Thome or Vlad.

Branyan is a bigger injury risk than Matsui and Manny seems to have never been a real consideration by the organization (for some reason). I think Magglio should still be a realistic possibility for OF/DH platoon.

by Hoegaarden on Dec 12, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope they don't want Vlad

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I was looking at Magglio’s stats and I can’t believe how good he waS in 2007. An 8.2 WAR?

by Slide Giambi on Dec 12, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Again, the way that you find out if a player is interested is to, you know, actually act interested

not to sit around like me waiting for a date on a Saturday night.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Like, offer him the 5-year deal he says he wants,

offer to pay him $13M/year as he hits his mid-30s, and put a solid offer on the table for weeks when 29 other teams won’t even for a day? I suppose they could try that.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 8:20 PM PST up reply actions  

How do we know no other team has a solid offer on the table?

Serious question. I can’t imagine Boras letting that slip out.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Boras' MO is to inflate, not deflate, the number of teams that are bidding.

Heck, right now he’s saying “several teams” are in the mix when only one has made an offer anyone knows of. The notion that no one’s interested is not in his best interest.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I really don't understand the lack of interest in Manny

Maybe Billy was told by Boras that he didn’t have a chance. I suppose it’s possible Thome also said no. I dont want Vlad… He would be terrible here.

Matsui is fine but he is at best the 3rd best option available. And why not wait til a few other guys sign and the price drops?

by DrDoom on Dec 12, 2010 7:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Great stuff DFA

Very thorough

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 6:34 PM PST reply actions  

thank you

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

DFA

Briliiant! Dude, you put so much into this site and I appreciate it.

Heartily rec’d.

I have abandonment issues. Thanks Lew.

by OptimistPrime on Dec 12, 2010 6:42 PM PST reply actions  

glad you enjoyed OP

you will also be glad to know im regrowing the beard.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:17 PM PST up reply actions  

you can take the hipster out of the marina district...

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

what. I don't go to the marina... it and north beach are like the herpes of san francisco.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I dunno that was the first district that popped into my head.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Was it the first STD?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions  

try the Mission or Lower Haight

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I try to avoid the city at all costs.

There are like 2 places I go. Zeitgeist or Benders.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions  

both in the mission

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 12, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

oh I also apparently walked through the Tenderloin once after a dinner party to catch the last BART train.

I didn’t realize it until the next day when my buddy was amazed that I walked all the way.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

thanks. its hard sometimes but i appreciate the encouragement; it makes it easier.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I will *NOT* be ignored.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 12, 2010 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

New Insult Meme Mashup:

Halos Heaven Logo Cupholders!

"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!

by Gaijin_Suketto on Dec 13, 2010 12:33 AM PST up reply actions  

You too sound like an ideal contributor to the United White Bar Passage Fund

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Dec 12, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

thanks bed... I know we haven't gotten along for a while but I appreciate that a lot.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I enjoy the majority of your work here on AN

and this site would not be nearly as good without you.

But seriously, folks....

by Bed on Dec 12, 2010 7:44 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Given how roster management has evolved over that last few decades...

…isn’t this the situation for most teams?

..the Angels are in a similar situation that the A’s are in; they have a competitive window that is rapidly closing with their current core. Look at the attached spreadsheet and you will see a lot of blank cells next year and the year after where the Angels have expiring commitments to both their home grown core and free agents. In 2013 the Angels have only 5 members of their current core under control.
How many teams… even the consistently better teams… have more than 5 core (read: good and dependable) players under contract beyond 2013?

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 12, 2010 7:41 PM PST reply actions  

The Rays

The Rangers
The Braves
The Royals will
The Bo Sox
The Reds

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 12, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok, that's six... generously, IMO.

I’m not convinced the Reds or Braves can maintain that long. I discount the Royals until they actually achieve as too much can go wrong between now and then.

In the past I have questioned whether you better like the piecing together of the puzzle rather than the finished puzzle. That kind of coincides with this, I think. As someone eluded above, the time between now and 2013 is an eternity in baseball. Everything is always in flux and is subject to drastic change. Prospects flame out, other emerge from the woodwork. Trades happen and upset today’s balance of power.

Far too often the best put-together teams don’t win it all. If you fully buy into the “post-season is a crapshoot” theory… and you do, if I recall correctly… then all you have to do is be good enough to get to the post-season and anything can happen from there.

I think you’re restricting yourself by expecting a perfectly put-together puzzle, yet teams with imperfect puzzles and missing pieces win at an alarming rate.

I’m just all over the analogies, tonight.

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."
~ Anais Nin

by UncleLeo on Dec 12, 2010 8:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Meanwhile, the A's have

Anderson, Gio, Cahill, Bailey, Barton, Pennington, and Suzuki all locked in for 4-5 more years.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

It certainly lacks a star.

But add a star — which over the course of 2-3 seasons any team might be in a position to do — and it looks super fantastic bubble plastic.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

This!

And as much as their OF is trashed here, I like it.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 13, 2010 3:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Of which BA is hurt, Gio was good but it might not be sustainable, Cahill is average. Bailey is a reliever who is hurt, Barton is good but not as good as he was last year, Pennington i expect to get hurt, and Suzuki was terrible last year.

So basically we have Barton and Gio… woot

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 8:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Is Cahill's averageness the sort of average

where someone once told me that “average” is actually pretty good for a baseball player to be?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

excellent work. rec'd

i know that you considered leaving a while back and am very glad that you did not.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Dec 12, 2010 8:34 PM PST reply actions  

Interesting stuff

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 12, 2010 8:58 PM PST reply actions  

Good writeup.

I don’t have time for the research or writeup, but it meshes with the gut feeling I got after reading Nico’s post, which just seemed wrong to me.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Dec 12, 2010 9:48 PM PST reply actions  

Actually, I think you probably just missed the point of my post

It wasn’t that Beltre would make the Angels better than Lee would. It was that given the fact that the Rangers start out better than both LAA and OAK, the only way the A’s compete is if the Rangers lose Lee and the A’s add Beltre, which is most likely to happen only if the Angels add Lee (or nobody).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I fudged up the reply

it’s below.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Dec 12, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

If the Yankees sign Lee, the Rangers lose him

DFA’s argument is that Angels + Lee > A’s + Beltre, so the Angels getting Lee is the worst possible case, IMO.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Dec 12, 2010 9:58 PM PST reply actions  

Yes, but Angels + Beltre > A's + nobody.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

And it doesn't, in itself, guarantee Lee doesn't go back to Texas

(though clearly the Lee issue will be resolved first).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 12, 2010 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

What if the A's sign Lee and Beltre?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 13, 2010 5:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Then it might prevent us all from dying.

At least until the playoffs.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 13, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

or until lee signs with the Phillies!

Doh!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Dec 13, 2010 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

ThANks.

I was just getting ready to back away from the ledge.

"It boils down to this. You guys aren’t fans of our management and look through that prism." ~ DrDoom

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 13, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Good thing we got to you in time

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 13, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, but...

Angels + Lee > Angels + Beltre, and Lee to the Angels doesn’t guarantee that Beltre will sign with the A’s (though it certainly would increase the chances).

According to DFA:

If the Angels signed Lee it would instantly vault them ahead of the Rangers since it takes about 3 War of production from them and increases the Angels projected WAR by 8. That would mean that the A’s would be unable, even if they sign Beltre, to reasonably think they could catch the Angels, since WAR to actual performance has about a 5 game margin of error.

It seems that DFA’s projecting the A’s to be 3.5 WAR above average next year as they stand, while the Angels would be 2 WAR above average without any free agent signings. Add Lee’s 8 WAR improvement and the Angels are 10 WAR above average, putting them out of the reach of the A’s, even if they swap Kouz for Beltre. If they Angels upgrade with Beltre instead of Lee, they’re looking at a 4.5 WAR above average team, which is much closer to the A’s projected 3.5 WAR total and easier to catch.

Let’s say 10 WAR above average vs. the A’s 6.5 if Lee goes to LAA and Beltre comes to Oakland. Which seems more manageable?

One thing I think DFA could perhaps have done better in this post is include a chart that shows what his article says regarding the change in wins. Beltre equals a 2.5 win upgrade for the Angels, supposedly, whereas Lee is nearly an 8 win improvement. As it stands, Angels + Beltre would be a closer gap than

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Dec 12, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought the piece was well written

About 30 comments in I quite reading the thread because it was insipid.

This would’ve been great on Halos Haven; assuming Rev wasn’t scared of the pictures with numbers. It’s just fine on AN as well.

DFA, I hope one day soon you’ll quit falling for the same fucking bullshit traps that some posters throw your way. The only thing more ridiculous to watch than the way some folks bait you in the same old way is how you fall for it, every time, in the same old way.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Dec 13, 2010 8:48 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

That's how I feel about all the "Cust isn't a good hitter" threads.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 13, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

All of the "insipid" part was branched off that one comment

As soon as you see where it’s going, you can just skip to the next left-margin comment and be past all the meta stuff.

(Tech note: It would be nifty if there was a way to collapse an entire subthread, so it collapses not just the chosen comment but also everything branched off from it. And/or same idea for “mark read”.)

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions   5 recs

Rec'd on the tech tip

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Dec 13, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Another

Perhaps turning it green will get someone’s attention

by elcroata on Dec 13, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

See, this is why I can't post here.

It’s like you’re a version of me from the future, even when I make the comment first.

by rebus on Dec 13, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

DFA great job!

The effort you put in this is exceptional. It’s always interesting to see a team (let alone a rival) from this perspective. It’s interesting how baseball economics has to match up with, and equate to talent on the field to determine how efficient a franchise is with the resources they are given.
I guess,as an A’s fan, it gives great insight on other teams and what their limitations are. I would be curious to hear from Angels fans about their thoughts on your research.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Dec 13, 2010 8:49 AM PST reply actions  

So then what dies it mean if Texas gets one of either Beltre or Lee with an outside shot of getting both?

Texas going hard after Beltre is all over Twitter and now rumors are heating up the Lee is in fact signing with Texas…

JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook

by laxtonto on Dec 13, 2010 9:17 AM PST reply actions  

I MADE IT!!!!

DFA terrific post and now I have a terrible sinking feeling in my stomach about our beloved team.

I’m with Laxtonto – if Texas grabs Lee + Beltre (seems like THEIR billionaire backers are willing to pony up) are we doomed for the next decade?

I’m not willing to give up on our scrappy group. I secretly hope the A’s are that “mystery team” and we end up pulling off a coupe that entices Beltre to sign as well. Do we have that kind of money? No. but we have a billionaire and dreams until the contract is signed.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Dec 13, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

If Texas gets Lee it is highly unlikely that we compete for the division without some complete breakout of everyone.

If we don’t sign or trade for someone.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Let's just do all those things.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Dec 13, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Dec 13, 2010 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I would support signing Lee.

Taurus Apr 20-May 20
Honey or vinegar? That’s kind of the universal decision we have to make all the time, every day. Are we going to get what we want by being nice or being a dick? And you know what, Taurus? Every situation is different, there’s no one way to do things. Know what else? Honey and vinegar go together in a nice salad dressing.

by designatedforassignment on Dec 13, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

sounds like

the mystery team is the Philadelphia Phillies (according to MLBTR), which would make sense: place he loves, not going over 5 years.

I say, it’s a very strong play by the Phillies to stay on top as long as possible in the east.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Dec 13, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I would LOVE that

No Rangers, no Angels, no Yankees. GO PHILLY!!!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 13, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions  

not sure

where they can unload Joe Blanton to without picking up a big chunk of his salary. $17MM over last two years seems a bit much for a 2 WAR pitcher.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Dec 13, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I would LOVE to face Cole Hamels in Game 4 of the WS.

Sign me up.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 13, 2010 7:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Can you play RF?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Dec 13, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

My arm plays better at DH.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 13, 2010 9:32 PM PST up reply actions  

same with ibanez

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Dec 14, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Doesn't this post belong

on CNBC? Too many numbers. What do you think this is, a stat geek blog? Geez.

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on Dec 13, 2010 11:22 AM PST reply actions  

Nice analysis.

    I’ll have some Cliff Lee please.

by Wally's World on Dec 13, 2010 1:22 PM PST reply actions  

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