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Around SBN: Drug Testing, Alistair Overeem & UFC 146's Potential Legacy

In Defense of Barry Bonds


Hahahaha.  No one could really defend Barry Bonds, could they?  I guess Bill James could: http://www.slate.com/id/2266750

If everyone who reads here doesn't already know about Bill James, I would say he is the Godfather of Sabermetrics, all new thought about stats and baseball.  He has led the way to show how value can be over or underrated and that the search for baseball talent is often inexact.  Of course most of us know about Bill James. 

I can't get over his premise in this article, that Babe Ruth would have used steriods if he could have and should be just as hated as Barry Bonds.  I hate the Yankees, but somehow I find Babe Ruth's larger than life persona likeable.  I find Barry Bonds to be about the most unlikeable guy to ever play baseball.  I look at Bonds' stats and see that even in his last season, he was putting up monster numbers.  His whole career is just packed full of monster numbers.  But in more than one way he is the most offensive player in history. 

To me Bonds is almost a Shakespearian tragedy.  If you look at the money list, who made the most money in their career, Bonds is #4.  http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/leaders_salaries.shtml

But when I read that Tiger Woods made $40 million in endorsements one year, it just hammers home how much Bonds paid for being a jerk.  In his last few years Bonds made almost no money at all on endorsements.  His attitude was costing him millions.  He didn't seem to care, or didn't seem to be able to change his image.  Then in '08 and '09 he wanted to play.  No one would take him.  The all time home run champ, clearly could still help a team win ballgames, and no one wants him.  If he had never been linked to any illegal substances, I wonder if we would feel the same about him?  I don't know.  He was just such a jerk. 

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That article's pretty old

I basically agree with it. Not really sure people’s obsession with hating Bonds. If it’s steroids, you’d think they’d hate Doug Mirabelli just as much. If it’s being kind of a surly guy, one wonders why so many people defend AJ Pierzynski, Paul Lo Duca, etc. as the ultimate team players. Pretty obvious the reason he wasn’t offered a contract in ‘08 or ’09 was an executive order from Bud. Off the top of my head, it’s easy to think of a dozen players in a variety of sports who were demonstrably worse players than Bonds, demonstrably worse people, and still were brought back year after year anyway.

by swatnick on Nov 9, 2010 6:57 PM PST reply actions  

Babe Ruth would have used steroids if he could have?

Well I’m sure Barry Bonds would have contracted syphilis if he could have.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 9, 2010 7:49 PM PST reply actions  

Sounds like a happy ending.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 9, 2010 8:04 PM PST up reply actions  

we don't know that Ruth would have taken PEDs

but we do know that many, many baseball players did (and some likely still do). Bonds was far from the only player to do so. He was far from the only great player to do so. That doesn’t excuse it, of course.

He was a great ballplayer, regardless of his attitude. (He certainly wasn’t the only great ballplayer who was a jerk – and some were worse than jerks, for example, Ty Cobb.)

I have no interest in being his buddy. But I loved watching him bat.

by OaklandSi on Nov 9, 2010 8:20 PM PST reply actions  

+1; good post!
But I loved watching him bat.

And sometimes just stand there without batting — 120 IBBs in 2004!

PEDs or not, Bonds’ four year stretch from 2001 to 2004 [when his lowest OPS was 1.278] was insanely superb.

by LowcountryJoe on Nov 10, 2010 2:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Bonds

No one wanted Bonds in 2008 because he wanted to play only one game a week

by Charley Thompson on Nov 9, 2010 9:55 PM PST reply actions  

He could have been a good DH for years.

If he really loved the game, I guess he would have played in Japan. That would have been interesting.

"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"

by OmahaHi on Nov 10, 2010 12:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Ruth was also loved by the media, whereas Bonds was not.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2010 3:52 AM PST reply actions  

I still think Bonds could be a good DH.

A's Fan in Sweden

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Nov 10, 2010 4:22 AM PST reply actions  

i think so too

certainly better than Ken Griffy Jr, Mark Kotsay, or Eric Chavez.

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Nov 10, 2010 5:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I Detest Bonds

His attitude, steroids.…… I believe once he stabbed a policeman in the face when they came to escort him to court (heard it on PTI).

by Oakland All-Star on Nov 10, 2010 8:10 AM PST reply actions  

With a syringe?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Nov 10, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions  

BS on the stabbing

Link?

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Nov 10, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

No way.

You think that wouldn’t be just a little bit of a bigger story, if Barry Bonds stabbed a freaking policeman in the FACE? Jesus.

by danmerqury on Nov 10, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Not Sure

All I know is that I was watching PTI and they said Barry Bonds stabbed a policeman in the face. Was a few years back, maybe 2-4. I can’t verify it; this is what I heard.

by Oakland All-Star on Nov 10, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

We all know PTI is known for its reverence of the truth.

A's Fan in Sweden

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Nov 11, 2010 5:26 AM PST up reply actions  

What irritates me about PEDs

is when a guy like Bonds, who basically was scheduled to be the second coming of Rickey Henderson, suddenly turns into the Hulk in the space of like a year. I’m less offended when guys like Canseco or McGwire or Bonilla or Palmeiro do it. I’m really not bothered by that. A big guy gets bigger. Fine. Or a small guy gets a little tougher. That’s fine too. A speedy guy gets more durable. Also fine. Do what you do, pay whatever price you pay, that’s on you and it isn’t my concern.

But I don’t like to see a human physique so distorted and cartoonish. Bonds wasn’t built to be the home run king. He was built to be a great leadoff hitter.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 10, 2010 10:00 AM PST reply actions  

by all accounts Bonds didn't get into PEDs until fairly late in his career

if you look at his career numbers it’s clear that he hit for power throughout every phase of his major league career. And yes, he was also fast.

by OaklandSi on Nov 10, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

He hit for some power,

but he was still much more of a leadoff hitter than a power hitter. More of a Carl Crawford than a…well, then a Barry Bonds, I guess.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 10, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Carl Crawford...

on steroids. ;)

He was consistently a 30/30 guy or damn close to it with an OPS over 1.000 even before the steroids. His lowest OPS between ’90 and ’98 was .924.

He also gave top of the line corner OF D.

Guy’s going to go down as the most underrated player in history because of something apparently everyone was doing.

by SenorGato on Nov 10, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

This is why I love Bill James

He isn’t saying that things should be one way or the other. He does try to break down arguments, or maybe more accurately, he tries to follow the arguments all the way out to look for any faulty underlying assumptions, or short-sited biases. He asks questions. I love Bill James.

by ArunisArun on Nov 10, 2010 10:06 AM PST reply actions  

yup

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Nov 10, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

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