SB Nation Bay Area Editor's Pick
Is Athletics Nation a Sports Blog or an English Grammar Blog?
Is seems that there is a divide between some at Athletics Nation.
Those who come to Athletics Nation to read and write about the A's, and Baseball are one half. They do not care if what they write/read is perfectly written. For a post-writer, it can feel like a form of harassment for someone to criticize their grammar and not even discuss the post at hand. And for the readers, having to read the grammar police threads get tiresome and old.
Then there is the half who polices other people's spelling and grammar. And also those who silently and anomalously thank them. It is important for them to have order with all the rules being followed. The misspelling or misuse of a word, a mispronounced phrase, lack of punctuation and generally bad writing are some of the things that can really irritate this type of person. Most grammar police do their best to help clean up the Nation. Sometimes gentle, sometimes forceful, they prod all post-writers to take more care and more time to edit and edify themselves. Athletics Nation seems to have some very high community standards in regard to this. Their are some very capable and creative people that help maintain these high standards and they should be mostly applauded. Reading other blog sites can be frustrating at times as every other post seems to be authored by a third grade dropout.
In my scenario, we assume the post-writer made an effort to spell check and edit. They made coherent sentences and paragraphs and tried for well written punctuation. They are not a professional writer. They do not have the time or knowledge to make it perfect. Nor do they want too. They want to write/read about the A's or baseball in general. They do not want to read/write about the grammar skills of the many amateur English professors who frequent this site.
However, it seems that some grammar police are not here for the sports side of it at all. They are not actually grammar police, but a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to run an English grammar blog. Even this might not be right as their true intention is at the very least to destroy good threads with banal intercourse. They will chase off new posters and harass old ones with their pompous rhetoric. Once vexed, some writers leave the site in voluntary exile. This seems to be the only reason these wolfs are here.
When the writer/reader feels like his post has been taken over, he just might be a victim of a grammar troll. I will attempt to explain what a grammar troll is and how they operate. Since I do not want to type "grammar troll" fifty times, they are to be hereby known as a Groll. As we will soon see, there are at least four main types of Grolls.
The first type of grammar troll, or Groll, are usually very good at pointing out somewhat minor mistakes in newly posted threads. They get in quick, often in the first few responses, before the tread has a chance to break out into any interesting discussion. They do just enough to irritate you, much like a mosquito buzzing around your head but never biting you. Then they hang around and patiently wait. If someone, if anyone, responds to their often superfluous instruction in any way, the Groll will ramp it up a notch with a sentence or two worth of criticism, followed up by some righteous indignation and maybe an obscure word or two.
Usually another grammar troll will sniff it out at this point and jump in. The second type of Groll is usually good at pointing out the flaws in the first Grolls account of the situation. They can do this by disagreeing with the first Grolls premises and therefore challenge them to a debate. Or they can point out some minuscule, inconsequential error in the grammar of the first Groll that 99% of the public wouldn’t know or care about.
Now the first Groll has two choices at this point.
1) They will either keep the criticism on the post-writer, badgering and tormenting them with enmity or 2) they may decide to accept the challenge of the second Groll. The second Groll, who is the first one to recognize and go after the first Groll, is the second type of Groll. These particular types of Grolls will be hereby known as aSroll. Again, Srolls are the first person to identify, respond and challenge a Groll.
When the Groll decides to choose #1, and continue to exasperate the post-writer, he makes some moves that a basketball analogy may help explain. Much like a flop in basketball, the Groll will put themselves in harms way to elicit some form of false contact that can be used against the post-writer. They then will protest their innocence and personal motives as they are taking the free throw shots. All the while they are looking for a way to get two more easy shots. This Groll is probably weak and starving and stays with the easy mark, unwilling or unable to compete with more savvy Grolls.
However when the Groll decides on choose #2, accepting a challenge from a Sroll, now it can get fun. The Groll and the Sroll usually dance around each other for a few rounds by one-upping each other in a form of verbal smack talk that speech and debate teachers never even dreamed about pre-internet. Srolls are usually experienced Grolls who have grown tired of the easy kill of a new or sensitive writer.
The Groll and Sroll usually understand and honor the battle that is about to take place. No ill feelings or animosity is expressed as they start the opening moves of the chess match with a hopefully worthy opponent. Now the magic can happen as the Groll and Sroll really get a chance to show off.
They reach far into their copious vocabulary and access dormant debate skills with some jousting and confusing foreplay of words. With false umbrage and colloquy, they go back and forth eloquently showing off their sententious style. Some have described this faze of competition as the middle stages of a verbal circle jerk. They egg each other on in intelligible and astute discourse, enthralling themselves and others. Back and forth, at times gratuitous, at times ingenious, they feel sophisticated and wise as both debaters ascend to higher forms of ecstasy. While this may as well be Sanskrit to the rest of us, it does illicit a robust response.
At this time if the Groll and Scroll have proved to be profound and not platitudinous, other Srolls get worked up enough to jump in. Each trying to steal the attention away from the first Sroll. These secondary Srolls are the third kind of Groll. Hereby all Srolls after the first Sroll will be known as a Froll. Now that the Groll three-some is complete with a Groll, Sroll and at least one Froll, the threads quickly become paragraphs long rants. Innocent bystanders making comments in the sports thread are either highly entertained, simply run over, or both. Frolls are best at the endgame of a Groll hunting party and usually leave it to others to flush the game or start the challange.
Sometimes just a Sroll is all that's needed for a first-class discussion between him and the Groll at the writers expense. Usually the Groll and Sroll welcome all the Frolls as it adds to the frenzy of their manic self importance and lets them hone there skills for future battles.
I have tried to help fanpost writers and readers on how to spot a Groll and recognize the variations of them. Grolls are not inherently good or evil. Do not fear the Groll. They do their part in making sure articles are coherent enough to withstand a simple Groll attack. Just like in nature, they weed out the weakest links and make the overall herd stronger because of it.
Some of us readers really like to watch the fray and see how it develops. For those who enjoy a good Groll attack as I do, we experienced Groll watchers usually can get a handle on which Groll will emerge victorious within the first few verbal jousts. But Groll lovers everywhere are pleasantly surprised when a mystery contestant enters the ring and knocks down all comers.
I promised you four types of Grolls. This last type of Groll is extremely rare, often misunderstood, but is what all other Grolls aspire to. It is a rare treat, when someone is canny enough to write a fanpost, just to fish for a Groll with all the consequences that may entail. Let me explain. The Postwriter-Groll actually lays the trap for the initial attack with a mundane post used to bait unwitting Grolls. Then they feign a lame foot, letting the Groll come fully out of the forest and exposing the Groll to a Sroll challenge. Then the Postwriter-Groll will do just barley enough to keep the Groll and the Sroll challenge moving in the right direction. If done right, this leads to a full blown Froll invasion. When it is determined that the Froll attack can maintain itself we have the real fireworks.
Now and only now does the Postwriter-Groll suddenly go " Keyser Soza " on all the Grolls, Scrolls and Frolls. With all the Grolls confused, mindfcked and helpless, the Postwritter-Groll mentally slays, then dismembers them, feeding off them in a verbal orgy only understood by the most twisted and deviously intelligent of minds. This creature is a de facto enigmatic visionary. Once turgid and strong with the fat of weaker Grolls, the Postwriter-Groll will then prepare to disappear and hibernate for another winter. This completes the full cycle of Groll society.This Postwriter-Groll surfaced from a remote and random blog somewhere around the internet to feed on the life force and creativity that is Athletics Nation. It is a Postwritergrammarpolicetrollcatcherextraordinar. They are known by hushed whispers and in secret circles as the immortal "Proll". Much like a Highlander, they have a need to kill each other to gain strength and power.
Ultimately the Prolls must slyly cultivate new Grolls who may someday become strong Prolls in their own right. Once the harvest has matured to the point of self-propagation, the Proll will have a rich feeding ground in the future to live off.
Hopefully I have helped to identify if anyone has been a victim of a Groll attack and why not to be fearful of one. Grolls, Srolls, Frolls and Prolls all have their place within the blog hierarchy and the rules are mostly understood between them. Don't hate the Groll, as they perform a natural, if somewhat unique, function in the nature of a blog. We at AN have a strong Groll society that should be studied with the utmost and delicate care. We seem to have reached the point that this renewable resource of entertainment has reached the full cycle of Groll life. This points to the hidden existence of a mighty Proll. With enough determination, examination and experimentation we may be able to titillate the Proll into exposing itself.
To recap: we have Grolls, Srolls, Frolls and Prolls. Grolls pick fights with post-writers, Srolls pick fights with Grolls, and Frolls keep the attack self-perpetuating by exasperating all three after the challenge has started. Finally, Prolls are post-writers fishing for Grolls.
I hope I have clarified what a Groll is, explaining each of the four types of Grolls and thus helping us understand if AN is a Sports blog or an English Grammar Blog.
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Comments
Man
You had a LOT to say.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Nov 27, 2010 1:20 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I stopped reading after the jump, I have to admit.
AN is obviously a baseball blog about the As. Personally, I ask people to take more care/time only if it’s obviously poor (i.e. all uppercase, all lower case, no periods, no paragraph breaks, no commas, etc.) and not minor stuff (misuse of their/there, typos, etc.)
I think the people who get the grammar stuff the most are people who are brand new. Every person who comes in with zero posts, zero comments, and posts a non-paragraphed “trade kooz 4 crooz and sign many” thread with terrible formatting really starts to add up.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 27, 2010 1:20 AM PST reply actions
I really don't care
There are people on here who will correct grammar. Big deal.
If it bugs you enough then don’t post here.
All I can say about stats is…
SCOTT BROSIUS!!
by stranahanahan on Nov 27, 2010 1:29 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
what he said
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
Hi.
They are not actually grammar police, buta wolfwolves in sheep’s clothing trying to run an English grammar blog.
Rooting for Jose Casilla to take his K- and GB-inducing skills to the majors and join his brother.
by dregarx on Nov 27, 2010 3:43 AM PST reply actions 6 recs
I was wondering whether -- or is it weather -- or not
I should point out that, “Their are some very capable and creative people” is…grollishly incorrect.
I do think sometimes we (and I’ll put myself in this category) get too hung up on correcting every grammatical error, but fanposts are published pieces and those should be written, and edited, with care.
Teachers nowadays are complaining about getting essays turned in entirely in text-speak, e.g., “ur gr8.” Stop the madness!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Flagged for excessive use of exclamation points!
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
I better be careful then....Exclamation points and .....dots are my signatures!
CT ..."he’s not just an asshat with a mic" - cuppingmaster
I can't honestly say I read the entire thing.
But in my opinion, there isn’t really a problem with grammar police. It’s nice to use proper grammar and spelling. When someone calls the poster out on it, it’s usually a quick fix. The real problem is when people bitch or get defensive at grammar/spelling corrections. It’s not personal, and it’s not a big deal.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
by travdog6 on Nov 27, 2010 4:06 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
You're right on
That seems to be the problem the last couple of weeks. The corrections lead to endless discussions that are really annoying for the people who come to AN to read about our A’s and baseball.
I think the corrections have a place here to help people to write better and sometimes to understand the text better, but they should not get too personal (except these obviously poor posts) and should be noticed by the writer and thats it. No need to dicuss these things endlessly.
tl; dr
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
by Daniel777 on Nov 27, 2010 5:23 AM PST reply actions 14 recs
Check yourself, before you wreck yourself
The same applies to grammar and spelling
by TheQuestforMerlin on Nov 27, 2010 5:27 AM PST reply actions
I'm laughing and thinking all at once.
Well played throughout. As an English teacher (& grammar lover) and a rabid A’s fan, I love the site for all the layers. But I realize I may be a sliver of the whole. Most fans probably don’t want or read long, grandiose discussions that extend ad infinity (cue Babe Winkleman theme song). During the off-season, we all get a bit anxious for A’s news and how many times can you speculate on trades and FA signings? Not to defend or attack any of the A’s-olls. This is a community I appreciate for all the diversity.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
"Ad infinitum."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 27, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Ah, fish on!
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
Did you mean Babe Winkelman?
Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell
by fridaynightfan on Nov 29, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
Who polices the police? Sting?
Is this blog turning into a grammar-police-monitoring Stasi? It seems like every time a grammar officer does his duty, that GPolPol (grammar police police) swing into action, boring everyone with their fussy rules, telling the grammar police why the thing they’ve said isn’t exactly correct, and explaining how they could say it better. Why can’t we concentrate on what’s important, on what most people come here for? I don’t want to ask, “Is our childrens learning?” and find all the grammar police gone to McCovey Chronicles.
There are two kinds of people on this blog: grammar police, grammar police police, and the functionally illiterate… and Nico.
Hey, that's 5!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
which then constitutes another troll
The Math Troll, or Matholl
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
No, "4" would be evidence of a Matholl
“5” is evidence of a far more disturbing force: The Jokeoll.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I used to live on Athol st in Oakland
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Christ, what an Athol!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Residence are consider "Athols"
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
And what are RESIDENTS "consider"?
Moran.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Now you are classified as a Sacroll
Someone who corrects the grammar in sarcasm
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 11:01 AM PST up reply actions
I think that's a Sarcroll
A Sacroll is how I walk to my mailbox.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Who are you, the Sarcastic Police?
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
sheeit...
I live in Sactown and they deliver it to my door, baby!
"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 27, 2010 3:37 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ahem
You used their when you should have used there in the last paragraph before the jump. I agree with and think people should stop editing others work.
WTF GEREN?!?!?!
by robbo650 on Nov 27, 2010 8:05 AM PST via mobile reply actions
With spelling and grammar on your mind...
…you’ll never look like a behind.
by HCF from Oakball on Nov 27, 2010 8:59 AM PST reply actions
You can't.
We know you too well.
Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.
I have a different but similar issue with comments
First I don’t see why we don’t be a little more respectful when we disagree with someone. The constant mocking and sarcasm doesn’t help it feel like a community, at least to me. I think we are all A’s fans here. If I met any of you in the real world and saw you had on an A’s hat or something, I would immediately consider you a friendly likeminded person. Somehow I think we all can hide behind our computers and write things in a way we wouldn’t say to eachother face to face and somehow I don’t think that is really healthy for AN.
The other thing we do or that us often done to my posts is I will craft a couple paragraphs of what I think is unique thought about something A’s or baseball related and then within those couple of paragraphs one tiny sentence or phrase is nitpicked to the extent that the whole section of comments ignores the main point and focuses on that one phrase. Lately I read and reread my posts beforehand trying to find that one phrase or word which will become the complete topic of the comments and get it out of there. Maybe that causes me to be a better writer or maybe it just causes me to feel less like AN is a community.
by barryzitoforever on Nov 27, 2010 9:16 AM PST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Ah, community
And like any community, there is going to be diversity. Hence, there are rules in order to create a sense of parity or similarity. We have a “rule” to go by, or something to measure our actions. Whether some like it or not, spelling and grammar, and it’s proper usage is not mandated in the Community Guidelines, but treating your fellow fan with respect is. It could be argued that taking the time to spell check and grammar check your posting is respectful to the community. It shows you took the time to write a well-written and well-thought out post and makes it easier for all to read. And the community should be within their rights to ask the poster to fix glaring errors that detract from the message, if done in a respectful manner. There is no reason to take it personal, IF it is done in a respectful manner.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
Such as a simple,
“FIX YOU’RE ERRORS!!!!!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or is it a meta blog with some Athletics baseball...
…sprinkled in from time-to-time?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 10:41 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Lets trade Barton and Cust for Ichiro!
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
Have the M's throw in Smoak and I'd consider swinging the deal.
Beane has given me some authority to negotiate trades, ya know.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
No, I have not
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
I vote for this.
Especially today.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
You know what would be great?
Baseball season, it cures all ills. Then we would have something to debate other than which bird will fly off the wire first.
I'm here to talk about Don
Yeah I know
Who else is super psyched about the 2011 A’s? I have faith in the management to pick just the right couple of guys to improve the team. I see no reason not to believe the A’s are playoff bound next year.
by barryzitoforever on Nov 27, 2010 10:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Hee.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
And you can't spell "fundmanilly" without FUN!
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
…For a post-writer, it can feel like a form of harassment for someone to criticize their grammar…
Gaah.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
hmm
I promised you four types of Grolls. This last type of Groll is extremely rare, often misunderstood, but is what all other Grolls aspire to. It is a rare treat, when someone is canny enough to write a fanpost, just to fish for a Groll with all the consequences that may entail. Let me explain. The Postwriter-Groll actually lays the trap for the initial attack with a mundane post used to bait unwitting Grolls. Then they feign a lame foot, letting the Groll come fully out of the forest and exposing the Groll to a Sroll challenge. Then the Postwriter-Groll will do just barley enough to keep the Groll and the Sroll challenge moving in the right direction. If done right, this leads to a full blow Froll invasion. When it is determined that the Froll attack can maintain itself we have the real fireworks.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
…and anomalously thank them…
Gaah!
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
Apparadently, you don't know what that means
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
Apparatusally, your corect.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 27, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
People also need to realize...
That not everyone in this blog comes from the US, there are some internationals (like me) that English isn’t their first language. Every know and then when I make a mistake people point them laugh at them thinking I never finished the 3rd grade.
Even some jokes, I just don’t get em because you have to live in the US to do so!
by RememberDurazo on Nov 27, 2010 11:21 AM PST reply actions
Honestly, if we can't make fun of foreigners
then what has this blog become?
Wait, did I write that out loud?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 27, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Is this a Foreign Grammar Blog?
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
I blame Canada
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
NEED MOAR DUTCH!!!
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
This
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Nov 27, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Mijn luchtkoosenboot zit vul paling
I think that means “my hovercraft is full of eels”
by barryzitoforever on Nov 27, 2010 5:49 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër?
See the løveli lakes . . . .
Nobody expects some kind of obscure Monty Python allusion.
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Nov 30, 2010 7:38 AM PST up reply actions
no, seriously, a moose once bit my sister!
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 30, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Athletics Nation-- nu sprakkunstvrij
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
That's one way to look at it
ORrrrr… you can look at it as “I’m an ESL poster, they are native language speakers, I get to do my best with a language I don’t know and if I’m wrong, I have people capable of politely correcting me so that I may learn something.”
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
And then there's Tonto...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There's an excellent chance
that your English is better than most of the natives that post here, because you actually had to bother to learn the mechanics and fundamentals. Most of your errors are probably more of idiom than of usage.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Good point, but wouldn't non native speakers be interested in learning the language even better?
If the criticism is in a positive, nice manner, I think it’d be a good thing
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
I can only speak for myself
But I was actually always thankful for the inputs and never thought they were snarky or trying to take away from the post itself — unless the posts involved English national teams in any shape or form.
I even received some corrections/suggestions per mail, which I though of being particularly thoughtful – sort of like trying to help, without exposing. If AN had a PM function, that would often be the best compromise – send a direct message to the author and make him aware of the possible improvement. This would automatically weed out people who are doing this for self-exposure and probably limit the “hurt pride” factor of those being corrected.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Hey man.
If you mess with the bear you get the claws. ;-)
Though ‘bear’ probably wasn’t the best term to use considering Oakland’s proximity to San Francisco….
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
The way Cal played this year,
messing with Bears in the East Bay was actually pretty harmless.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
As a Cal fan
I laughed at this. Unfortunately.
Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell
by fridaynightfan on Nov 29, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
i'd rather have dfa posting here with his spelling and grammatical mistakes but making sense than grammarians posting things that don't make sense.
You act like dfa (or anyone else)
can’t click “spellcheck” before pasting and posting. In other words, the two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
oh i totally agree. and i think dfa's posts could be more karma friendly too. but if i had to choose...
i guess my point is that i can live with the"their/there" errors vs posts that are not proof-read for content errors (heck i make those mistakes in at least 25% of my posts). worst of all are the, gee, i don’t like jack cust posts.
Actually, I keep a running tally, and you are up to 32%
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Worse yet, I think, are the
“I don’t like Jack Cust posts” posts.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I meant "khan.....!"
I feel like evil bearded Spock. And yes, I remember Durazo, he of the bug eyes and tyrannosaurus arms.
I didn't read it
But was there any mention of the Broll? The bored troll who picks at things just because they have nothing to do and need a way to fill the hours between now and baseball season?
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
About time.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
You used a bad font.
{Yawn}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The Dangers!
"So, the A's new organizational philosophy involves adding Viking relievers? God save us all."
"Berserkers: the new market inefficiency."
-LonestarBall
Seriously,
we’ve all overplayed this grammar police thing. It’s not that big a deal.
Yeah, sometimes someone will make a dickish comment about a grammar or spelling error. So sure, it would be better if these people weren’t such dicks, but that’s true regardless of whether they’re commenting on grammar or something else.
But as for the long subthreads about grammar or language, don’t shout that down. Language is interesting. We like to discuss interesting things. AN fanposts run off on tangents all the time, about movies, or music, or history, or literature, or sex, or uniform colors, or whatever. Sometimes it’s about language. If someone uses your post to note that the correct phrase is really “bated breath” rather than “baited breath”, or whatever the topic of the day is, don’t get all bent out of shape and act like it’s an attack on your manhood. It’s just an interesting sub-conversation.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
by iglew on Nov 27, 2010 1:26 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, but do you have any numbers to back that statement up?
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
After "baited breath" the comma should appear INSIDE the quotation mark.
JEEZ ARE YOU TRYING TO RUIN AN?????
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
A serious question
Are you serious? About the comma, I mean. I would think it’s a joke, but there was another comment today, that really did put the comma inside the quotation.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
The comma belongs inside the quotation mark.
Me write pretty one day!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's the American writing convention
to put periods and commas within quotation marks, with some exceptions. The Brits do it differently, with only quoted punctuation appearing in the quotation marks. The British approach makes more logical sense, but a comma outside of the quotation mark does look weird to me. I vaguely recall that the American convention might have something to do with notions of type space economy.
I don’t have Strunk and White’s handy, but Wikipedia has the relevant cites.
by svetlanamonsoon on Nov 27, 2010 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
That's because the Brits are stuipid.
Wait, Oldham was around earlier, wasn’t he? Damn.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks, I didn't know that
I find it somewhat amusing to have a rule, the alternative of which is called “logical punctuation”.
And to keep with the language questions – would you (any of you language savvy people) have written the above sentence like:
I find it somewhat amusing to have a rule whose alternative is called “logical punctuation”.How limited is the use of whose? Can you use it with things? I see it used in that manner quite often, actually, but am hesitant to use it myself.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Although I don't agree with it and would change it if I was the President of English,
“whose” is pretty much a catch-all term for situations like that. Its use is not very limited. I agree with your instinct that it doesn’t feel right to use it there, but it is correct. Not only is it correct, but it’s really the only way to say exactly what you were trying to say. I tried about five or six alternative sentences, and none of them worked as well.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 28, 2010 1:22 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks
So “which” doesn’t have a possessive form? Can’t you use it in genitive-like manner as I did in the first sentence?
Like
Inflation, the effect of which is…
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
The possessive form of "which" is "whose."
To use “which” in the manner you used it in is correct, but not really desirable. Separate it into its clauses.
I find it amusing to have a rule //, the alternative to which is called “logical punctuation.”
The second clause is a dependent clause, which means you should be able to remove it and still have the sentence feel right. It doesn’t, though.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 28, 2010 2:03 AM PST up reply actions
I think you could generally say that the alternative to English orthography is called "logical orthography"
Hey, it could be worse, like Japanese— where the orthography is intentionally incomprehensible for the specific purpose of making it so fewer foreigners can understand your language.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
It's like programming
I never document my code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
I'm not far off that
But instead I look at it as “If I’m using it, I’d better be able to know enough of what I’m doing to be able to read it later and figure out what the hell I was doing.”
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
there are exceptions
But I doubt you are going to write a legal brief.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Oh God, please don't submit your briefs.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or maybe people are just tired of being
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 27, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
"He back!"
It reminds me of one of my favorite Lon Simmons calls, on a windy day in Cleveland when a ball appeared to be “long gone” but the wind brought it back and it banged high off the wall for a double: “That ball’s hit way back, way back, way back: Tell it…hello. It’s off the wall…”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He and Bill King would do that a lot, it seemed
But, yeah, it would be my guess that AN is not something one can quit so easily once one has invested a lot in building a reputation and made it so much a part of their life.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
I can't quit you, AN....but I'm gonna hafta put you down for awhile...
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
Nope still gone.
I just wanted to point out that the people that want to impose their values on others like iglew, the others that are mocking this post, and those who participate in grammar trolling because of an “educated writing” standard don’t like it when other people impose “educated writing” standards on the content as well. Grammar errors won’t make a blog not worth reading. Shitty content will.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 27, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
you really shouldn't leave.
several of us appreciate your PoV, even if it is different than mine. actually, especially because it is different than mine.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I don't get you sometimes dude.
You post such great stuff and you’re such a valued member here. And one of your biggest things is (and correct me if I’m wrong here) is that there’s a fine line between subjectivity and objectivity. It’s why you’re so big on stats, and why you don’t make claims without backing them up, with stats.
But here you are, feeling that you need to leave because people care about grammar, and want to make asinine trade suggestions (which we all know are not gonna happen). Isn’t saying “grammar doesn’t matter” or making trade proposals merely for fun is wrong a subjective opinion? I’m basically equating it in my (currently drunk) mind to you saying “my opinions are right, yours are wrong” which is something you’re so intent on not supporting.
I dunno, maybe I’m just too drunk. I just find your reasons for leaving to be so small and insignificant, I just don’t get it.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
by travdog6 on Nov 27, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
"maybe I'm just too drunk"---I love AN.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
"And you're always glad you're too drunk."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And you currently live in Sweden
where days are so short this time of year and alcohol so expensive all the time, that most of the people just skip getting drunk phase and go directly kill themselves. I’m glad you’re drunk – keep it up, it’s only 4 months more!
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
However, occasionally you are too drunk to know which BART train you need to hop on to get home.
by LoneStranger on Nov 29, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
that's where Feeba is helpful.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
she really is. He'd still be wandering around Richmond if not for her.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 30, 2010 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
Instead, he's wandering around Union City.
by LoneStranger on Nov 30, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
huh. gp. maybe she really didn't do all THAT much...
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 30, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
She could have sent him on the AirBART.
Then we couldn’t be certain exactly where he ended up.
by LoneStranger on Nov 30, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
This is basically what I wanted to say
but said more humorously.
This doesn't really incorporate my motives completely
But here you are, feeling that you need to leave because people care about grammar, and want to make asinine trade suggestions (which we all know are not gonna happen).
I don’t care about the grammar. I never have, never will. Plenty of people complain about my spelling/grammar. I obviously know how to fix it, see my front page post about Farquhar for example, but I don’t care and find it unejoyable to spend time proofreading.
The asinine trade suggestions is bigger than you make it out to be. Its a slippery slope that has been happening for a long time, but asinine trade threads are the floodgate that will destroy what I still like about this place.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 6:23 AM PST up reply actions
Can you clarify?
What’s the slippery slope leading towards?
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
The slippery slope is the downward movement in the bar for discussions of trade proposals site wide.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I don't think it's site wide.
I think if anything, having a place that’s for “your crap proposals” will help keep that content off other threads.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
The proof is in the pudding. Look at the thread, which wasn't intended to be asinine, and became it.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
That proves nothing.
That only proves that the thread became asinine. The rest of the site seems to have maintained its integrity.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
has it really? seems to have devolved to meta crap to me.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Based on one or two threads?
Sounds pretty par for the course to me.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
Welcome to the off season.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Last offseason didn't make me want to quit and with the exception of banning PT neither did the season before that.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
every off season, we do metathread after metathread.
It’s been this way as long as I remember, dfa.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
Yup.
Each year is different in what we get meta about, but if you’re not into or bothered by it, just wade through it as best you can cause come spring training things turn back to AN.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
This isn't my first rodeo. I know.
Maybe it is just because I was the middle of these but they never, IMO, sucked like this before.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
I won't disagree that these latest ones have been remarkably strange even for AN meta
In your place, I think it really is wise to take your AN break knowing what you’re missing out on isn’t something you’re interested in anyway and knowing full well that it’ll eventually die down and get better by the time you’re ready to come back.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Really? I love the offseason more than the season.
More time for analysis, less games to get in the way.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
To each their own I guess.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Dude, come off it.
I obviously know how to fix it, see my front page post about Farquhar for example, but I don’t care and find it unejoyable to spend time proofreading.
Well, to be honest, that’s kind of discourteous. That’s not unlike saying, “I know I’m too abrasive sometimes, but I find it unenjoyable to take a moment to figure out a courteous way to speak my mind.” That’s different, to my mind, from saying, “I know my grammar isn’t great/I’m too abrasive sometimes, and I’m trying to fix that but I don’t always succeed.”
The asinine trade suggestions is bigger than you make it out to be. Its a slippery slope that has been happening for a long time, but asinine trade threads are the floodgate that will destroy what I still like about this place.
Grandiosity doesn’t suit you. If you want to leave, then leave, but don’t try to curry sympathy with everyone by playing the martyr and acting like we’ll all see the wisdom of your exit soon enough, when Athletics Nation collapses into a bunch of CBSSports.com GameTracker comments. Because that isn’t going to happen. It just isn’t.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
One might also suspect bad spelling and grammar
of being a slippery slope. If you post sloppy language, then it will encourage others to do likewise, and so on until AN is completely illiterate.
I think neither slope is very slippery, but the logic applies equally to either.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Like how every other SBN blog that has sloppy language has led to illiteracy?
oh wait that construction only works one way. (commas left out for dramatic effect)
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
More like how every other place on the internet that has sloppy language is starting to create illiteracy.
Seriously read up on it.
In the meantime, your assertion about “every SBN blog” rings hollow because I don’t believe that you read “every SBN blog” nearly often enough to know whether catch-all trade threads have led to collapse and ruin.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
There was supposed to be a comma after "Seriously."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
If you don't respect your content enough to present it in the best way possible, that's fine.
by LoneStranger on Nov 29, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
That's exactly the way I see it.
I’m probably a little over-obsessive about proofreading my stuff. I’ll read it over after I write it, after I copy it into the AN editor, and once more just before I go to bed. Why? Because I want my work to be presented in the best way possible.
That said, I understand that it’s not how everybody else does it. That’s fine.
I don't enjoy that part of it, but if I was a FPer I would do it, just like I did on the Farquhar post.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
And I don't enjoy wearing nice clothes to job interviews, but I do it anyway.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
AN: Not a Job Interview
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Not the point.
Although you are doing a wonderful job of acting out the exact point I’ve made elsewhere about your style of argument.
The point was that presentation counts.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
If presentation in the way you described counted you would wear nice clothes everywhere.
I whole heartedly believe in the Habermas spheres of language; alas you are trying to enforce the wrong sphere.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
So some people are worth dressing up for
and everyone else can just go ahead and stare at your bare ass all day?
I may not get dolled up for a trip to the grocery store, but I put on a pair of presentable pants.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
I put on pants, you just don't think they are presentable enough.
Who gets to decide what is presentable enough? I don’t think I should. You think you should though.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
No, I think the prevailing standards on the appropriateness of pants should get to decide that.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Who gets to decide what the prevailing standard is? Is it a vote?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
As noted elsewhere, the people who get to decide are the people who have devoted their entire lives to the study of the language.
Experts. Elites. The best. Now, I know you don’t trust “experts,” or “elites,” off in their ivory towers, far away from the salt of the earth like you. As you till the fields before going home to your thatched-roof sod house, where your good woman is churning some butter and helping you live out the rugged individualist dream of freedom and liberty, with justice for all, your thoughts occasionally drift to those darned elites with their “expertise,” keeping the common man down.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Um I churn the butter, the woman tills the fields; thank you very much.
I am perfectly happy with elites in most cases. I have nothing to add to a super string theory discussion and I am more than happy to cede to experts. In this case the experts basically report on what common people do. They didn’t sit down and decide that things would work best if done this way or that way. They just record normal patterns of usage.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
An avowed opponent of linguistic theory explains the work of linguistic theorists.
If that’s the level of discourse we’re sinking to, then let me put a coda on the entire discussion: English is, in the final evaluation, no more subjective than simple addition. The only thing you can prove to yourself is that you exist. The only thing I can prove to myself is that I exist. We can prove nothing to one another.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Should the internet be capitalized?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Should pumpkins be amortized?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Its a serious inquiry proving both that there is no correct answer since the elites that you love so much disagree
while at the same time proving you, yet again, to be wrong.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
I genuinely did not understand what you were asking until just now.
Style guides would recommend, when referring to a word in that manner, would use quotation marks.
You know, so people can understand you and all that jazz? It’s one of those dumb oppressive rules that makes communication more possible.
I never said the elites agree on all the banal minutiae of grammar. Scientists and mathematicians don’t either. That’s hardly the point. Once again, you’re trying your damnedest to stretch an opposing argument to its most extreme possible permutation and arguing against a straw-man, instead of against an actual man.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
If its really as simple math
I never said the elites agree on all the banal minutiae of grammar.
then that cant be true.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Actually, it can.
There are numerous points of disagreements between mathematicians and between scientists of all stripes.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
that should read "points of disagreement."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
you said addition, which has no disagreements.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Another classic example of your argumentative tactic!
You scintillate today, Watson! That statement was clearly in an extreme context, in which I was pointing out that all things other than one’s own existence are, in the end, subjective.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
Or maybe you should only make arguments that you can defend.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
You will find the answer to be the same as God and god.
by LoneStranger on Nov 30, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
So for the one true Internet, it's capitalized,
but for all those false internets that the heathens and hill people believe in, it’s not capitalized?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
except recently I believe OED changed it so that the internet is the correct grammar.
Because language is created by regular people and recorded by elitists who then tell the regular people that the way they are creating language is wrong.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Wait. Recently you believed that?
Or OED recently changed it? You’re not being very clear.
by LoneStranger on Nov 30, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
recently it changed
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
I've found no evidence of that, nor have I ever heard of that happening.
The generally accepted convention is that because there literally is more than one internet (the government has one all to itself), there are two different forms of the noun, one for generic internets, and one for the Internet we are currently using.
Keep trying.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
it was the UK Guardian style guide
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
The Guardian's a left-wing rag. It is very much not the OED.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
why is their style guide inferior?
if there is correct grammar it should all be the same.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
That is such an absurd argument, and you know it!
So now because I’ve claimed that some style guides are correct, that means I have to believe that all style guides are correct? Do you have any concept of how obvious your straw-manning has become?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
It would be if you didn't make the claim that there is one true grammar
but you did. Therefore even a what would be considered a strawman in many circumstances defeats your argument. Also your argument is a logical fallacy.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
At what point did I say that all style guides are correct?
And this is leaving aside that I have already, several times, allowed that there are numerous different grammatical styles appropriate to different contexts, although their substantive differences are minimal and mostly related to citations. But the only part of that you acknowledge is LOLOLO MORE THAN ONE GRAMMAR LOLOLOL, even though I never said that there is only one correct grammar, nor did I ever say there is only one correct source of grammar.
Your emotional reaction to thinking that I called you uneducated has clouded your mind on this issue. You’re only seeing the illogical extreme versions of what I’m actually saying, not my real arguments. I’m sorry you got so offended at something I didn’t say. I wish I hadn’t accidentally conveyed something to you that got you so hot and bothered. But what you’re doing is really aggressive and uncalled for. And you’re not even making a point by doing it.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
I am responding in kind to you.
Not the other way around.
You have failed to respond to the crux of my arguements many many times.
This thread was created because you are a grammar troll. Not I. You can’t deal with the blow back. Which is why you are trolling here. Deal with it. This just like how you got banned for trolling; nothing has changed.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
You still haven't shown me a single instance of me personally attacking you.
Not one.
I corrected a guy. Another guy got mad. I explained my position. You lost your mind at me. That’s what happened.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
You're awfully pro-elitist for
a supposed socialist.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Socialism and the belief that people who know everything there is to know about a subject should be trusted as experts in that subject
are hardly mutually exclusive. I’m a huge fan of surrounding myself with people who know significantly more than me about something, people who are better than me w/r/t that subject.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
No one knows everything about any one thing.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
/exaggeration for effect
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
The results might suggest otherwise
But, I do, too.
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Honestly, if you had a better defense behind you
your results would be just fine.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
you remind me of that one commerical
“everytime you get hungry you turn into a diva”. except it’s not hungry, it’s…annoyed?
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
You realize the only reason stuff like "educated writing" ever gets said is because guys like you can't handle it that some of us prefer proper English?
If you could leave well enough, we could satisfy whatever urge it is that drives us to help people master the language, and you’d never have to hear our awful elitist claptrap.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 27, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
This
Why people care enough to correct small grammar mistakes, I don’t know. But if they do, who gives a rat’s ass? Ignore them. Don’t respond to their correction if for some reason it irritates you so much. Move on. Don’t make a huge stink about it.
I’d much rather read 200 comments about A’s baseball than 200 comments of posters acting like grade schoolers over something as ridiculously insignificant as this.
Let’s move on and let things go. Pretty please? With sugar on top?
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
BIPARTISANSHIP

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 28, 2010 12:52 AM PST up reply actions
I really don't think you understand that I don't care about the grammar at all.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 6:23 AM PST up reply actions
Well, maybe you shouldn't bring it up as being related, in any way, to your grandiose exit.
Also, maybe you shouldn’t get so mad every time someone corrects grammar. Since you don’t care about it and all.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
I don't get mad. I was using it as an example of
those who participate in grammar trolling because of an "educated writing" standard don’t like it when other people impose "educated writing" standards on the content as well.
The key is the last part. People that object to others imposing their values on them are the ones that are trying to do it here. Its a hypocrisy argument against iglew. I don’t care about grammar trolls.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, you made a pretty big deal about it when I corrected "ad nausea."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
Your hypocrisy argument against iglew
relies on the assertion that I make it a habit of criticizing your grammar. I’m pretty sure I don’t. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
No it really doesn't rely on that.
Though you frequently criticize my malapropisms, I don’t mind it. My argument relies on the fact that you are legitimizing the same kind of “persecution” (your word not mine) you accused me of.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
And yet again, for an astounding seven zillionth consecutive time,
you fail to provide a single example.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
What the f are you talking about.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
You have consistently failed to provide a single example of iglew trying to force his values on you or anyone else. Not only that, but when people assume you’re talking about the grammar stuff, you shoot them down.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
I have linked to one above and cited another example. Im confused what you are talking about.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
No you haven't.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
iglew's changing the meaning of the trade thread
the telling PT and I that we should make illogical statements just because we have to to be human.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
You can't be serious.
Telling you guys to lighten up (which, by the way, PT didn’t seem to have much of a problem with) is far from DEMANDING AT GUNPOINT THAT YOU BE ILLOGICAL OR GTFO
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
Id suggest that telling someone that they should abandon their philosophy or else they are inhuman is pretty bad
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
Well, sure, if you take everything anyone says at face value and don't believe that anyone has ever exaggerated for comic effect.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
it really wasn't funny or intended for comedic effect.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Who's to say what's funny?
However, I’m pretty sure iglew didn’t tell you to abandon your philosophy or else you are inhuman.
You know why I’m so sure? Because iglew is a decent human being, and generally, decent human beings don’t do things like that. Instead of assuming the absolute worst about people, you might try engaging with others as if you want them to be more than just sounding boards for you. As it is, you come off as pretty bitter and hateful.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
I was not telling you to abandon your philosophy.
I was telling you to stop trying to impose it on others, hence the comparison to “persecution”.
Your line of reasoning that sloppy thinking in one thread is going to ruin all of AN implies that it’s not sufficient for you to extinguish sloppy thinking in the threads you participate in, but rather it must be exterminated everywhere lest its influence spread. That is what I objected to.
(And by sloppy thinking, I mean “sloppy thinking”, which I personally think isn’t sloppy at all but rather just not the type you like.)
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
No it was "my type" of thread that you tried to reclassify as "your type" of thread
which was imposing your viewpoint on “my type” of thread. According to the author it wasn’t suppose to be asinine and you made it that.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
Really? A catch-all trade ideas thread is your type of thread?
Even though you’ve disparaged the idea of catch-all trade threads repeatedly?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
Trade proposals are yes.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:48 PM PST up reply actions
But, God forbid, anyone have any fun with a trade proposal.
by LoneStranger on Nov 30, 2010 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
im perfectly fine with other people having fun with things
they should create their own threads rather than hijack those written by people that want to actually discuss real trades like Cal Jag’s that iglew hijacked.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
If it was "your type" of thread,
why did you say you think the thread is a bad idea and “it encourages brief and un thought out trades without detailed explanations.”
You’re now telling me that I misinterpreted the intent of that thread. OK, maybe I did, but if so it was because that’s how you characterized the thread.
You said it would encourage brief and un-thought-out ideas. You opined that that is a bad idea; I countered saying I think it’s a good idea.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
The stated intentions are my type of intentions.
The poster asked if the thread would achieve those intentions. I responded. You argued that the poster and my intentions are bad and that I persecute people.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
We haven't addressed this directly, but
since I’m being posed as your antagonist here I want to make it clear that I am totally on your (DFA’s) side on the topic of needing to proofread, punctuate, and spell properly.
Personally I like to proofread, and language stuff comes easily to me, so I tend to write well. Since I enjoy language, sometimes I enjoy pointing out interesting quirks, but hopefully never in a critical way.
But on the central issue — that AN is supposed to just be fun, and you shouldn’t have to work hard at things that aren’t fun for you — I am 100% on your (DFA’s) side. If taking care to write more “correctly” is a pain in the ass for you, then you absolutely should NOT be pressured to do so, and if fussy people like StJoseph nag you about it, with or without elitist arguments, then I am opposed to their schoolmarmishness.
Sure, I admit I do sometimes wish that your sentences parsed more easily so that they would be easier and more enjoyable for me to read, but not so much that I think it’s my place to tell you you have to work harder every time you open your mouth. AN should be fun, and people shouldn’t be intimidated about expressing themselves because they’re afraid they don’t match up to some standard.
Whenever I compare the grammar question to the back-up-your-arguments-with-logic question, it is because I want a relaxed, don’t-work-so-hard standard for both.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
But, if someone wrote an entire post in textspeak, this would be bad right?
I’m not saying DFA does this, but clearly there is some rational line. For me, I generally think people who post FPs ought to write to a level they can comfortably write at. Since I know DFA is a smart guy, that he makes a half-effort sometimes at utilizing common formatting cues expresses a certain level of not being thoughtful in his work.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
Obviously there is a spectrum with extremes and
no clear borderlines.
But if the question is, Do I wish AN had a no-chatspeak-allowed rule (as Lookout Landing does), then my answer is that I emphatically do not.
Some of DFA’s posts are less clearly written than other similarly substantial posts. This makes them marginally harder to read, and marginally less enjoyable for some of us. He knows that and accepts it, but he still prefers not to have to work that hard. That’s his call, and I totally respect it.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Dude, this whole crapstorm is partly about effort
One cannot, on one hand say “quality is going to hell here” and then when the opportunity arises to post the highest possible quality of work, not do it.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 3:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I have a spelling disability.
It is significantly more difficult for me to proof read everything and I usually don’t catch that much more. There is a direct trade off in my posting because of my time restraints between more content or more correct grammar and spelling. I put my writing out where I am comfortable within that trade off. If people prefer I can move that towards less content and more correctness.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
That could have been said a long time ago and most of this wouldn't have happened.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
poor spelling is forgivable
What is harder is when it goes stream of consciousness.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
Just a note about this:
You don’t have to be able to spell well easily in order to easily spell well. That is, if spelling doesn’t come naturally, it’s still incredibly fast and simple to spellcheck — many programs even now underline misspelled words (which is how I know that apparently this computer believes “spellcheck” to be misspelled) so you don’t have to wonder which words are at issue.
Part of my impatience with poor spelling and grammar is that it has become so easy to use tools to sharpen them up that a failure to do so is just a slap in the face to the reader — like, “I don’t care to get it right, and it’s now your problem.”
The classic example to me is “your/you’re” — I can understand what you’re saying if you get it wrong, but come on…it’s so EASY to get it right. You want me to take the time to read what you wrote and take you seriously as an author? Then at least get the easy stuff right.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't agree.
Something like 90% of the you’re/your errors are by someone who knows better but just slipped up. I’ve done it, you’ve done it, we all do it. It isn’t a lapse of judgment, it’s just a slip of the brain and fingers when we’re typing quickly. I don’t see that as a reflection on a person’s intelligence nor his seriousness.
The ones that bug me are missing commas or garbled sentences that actually make me stop and say, “huh? I can’t even tell what you’re trying to say.” Things like you’re/your and their/there are almost never a problem in that way.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I never said intelligence, just care:
Stop and do the “you are” test and you get it right every time. I think most instances of mistakes are from carelessness stemming from laziness — mostly stemming from the mindset that it doesn’t really matter.
Maybe it doesn’t matter, but it happens to matter to me and when you get it wrong, all because you can’t be bothered to stop for two seconds to get it right, then I’m less inclined to bother to keep reading.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 29, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree as well.
If DFA’s difficulties are anywhere near mine, the best way to imagine looking at words is like seeing a forest but unable to see the individual trees clearly. So while I KNOW you’re and your are different, regardless of font size or style or how much time I spend actually looking at it, It’s not always physically possible for me to see the individual characters at times. So while I’ll read something perfectly clearly, my mind would address missed characters and even missed words as if they’re not missing or wrong. The result is a lot of typos despite even the utmost of care. And while I prefer to put in effort to try to catch them all, I know I’m simply going to miss a lot. I can see why someone with a similar or the same issue would just decide it’s not worth the effort.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I concede I may not fully appreciate
the extent of a given disability and how it impacts everyday umpiring writing.
My premise is that with programs that note errors — or often even autocorrect them for you — and simple enough rules like “if ‘you are’ fits it’s always ’you’re’” then at least those errors can still easily be avoided when writing for an audience.
I’m not suggesting every sentence needs to be perfect, just that one’s writing should look like you at least did the easy stuff to make it as readable as possible.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Except that would require every comment be put into a word processor
I sure as hell have no intention of doing that nor would I expect anyone else to. And if you don’t see it, you can’t really correct it. It’s not truly easy to understand or appreciate unless you’ve dealt with it.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
your AN doesn't have spell check?
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
mine doesn't
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
I usually do.
though ive been using chrome a lot recently.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
No grammar check.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
grammar and the whole your/you're
and their/they’re/there and than/then things….well, as an English major, they make me wince, but they seem a lot more acceptable than spelling mistakes. But now that I know that not everyone has spell check…well, that does esplain a lot.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 30, 2010 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
I have and do spell check. It just misses a lot apparently.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
Yes - I'm thinking more of fanposts,
than of comments, here.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This. A lot this.
Plus when you aren’t dealing asses like StJoes who don’t know what the f they are talking about (with regard to the rules of grammar anyway) calling you an idiot all the time and you have to deal with the passive discrimination like oh well if you just try or its really not that hard from people like Nico (I understand how without that set of brain functions you could think that so im not trying to attack Nico but rather as use him as an example.)
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
Except I'm NOT saying, "It's not that hard."
I’m saying it’s not that hard to do a GO AROUND for the problem that is hard.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I am telling you your GO AROUND is innefective
I do spell check and re read things.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
Well then I say give up and make a sandwich
Food is good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I believe you really violated the spirit of this shitfest by not calling it a sammich
bad spellers and mikev would not approve.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
It is indeed a sammich, and I almost chastised
Nico for it. He should know better.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 30, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
Is it still sammich if it's made from real sand?
by LoneStranger on Nov 30, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
no, then I think sandwich would be right...
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 30, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
but, you're ALREADY going through significant effort to write an FP worth its salt
Is it really that much of an additional effort then to correct simple errors, or just make it readable to someone else but yourself?
FWIW, when I’ve seen DFA make an effort to make his comments more readable, they look just fine.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
How many hours would you want me to spend doing that?
How many fewer posts would you prefer me to make so they are accurate?
Ill give you an example. I was going to go to a game this year but instead decided that I wanted the hour getting there to finish and three hours so that I could proof an AN piece on the draft. This is why I didn’t get to see Dallas Braden’s perfect game.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
You're not understanding
the additional effort to attempt to correct simple errors requires an ability to actually see the simple errors. Imagine reading a sentence and truly understanding every grammar rule and know how to spell every word and actually sincerely believing that it is correct because your mind tricks your brain into think it is.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
No, I really do understand that
Using the you’re/your example, all the important work (all 2 seconds of it) happens before you type anything.
I’m not saying you should see “your” and see it correctly. I’m saying you should (as I do) mutter “you are” in your (“you are” — nope, doesn’t fit) head, and then type the correct one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You would think that would work
but it doesn’t. I write what I say. I say you and some form of an R sound. I type something that sounds like that. It could be either.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
Come on:
“You’re/Your a nice guy.”
Which one is correct? Hint: Say “You are” out loud in that sentence, see if it fits, and you will have no doubt. None.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No No No No
I get that your construction works. Im just saying I cant write that way because of the way my brain is. Im sure if I could consciously separate the sound from the written word that would be great. In my head I don’t even notice the construction.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
Even when they start the jackhammer?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
how many times have i told you NOT AT 6AM!!!!!!!!!
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
Nico, I really think you're missing the point.
I don’t have the disability DMOAS describes, but I do occasionally miss a your/you’re even when proofreading. When I do miss one, it’s because I’m reading quickly and my brain doesn’t register it. Your “say it out loud … is it ‘you are’?” scheme is completely useless. If I do see it, I already know; if I don’t see, I never notice in the first place.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
this.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
My whole point takes place
before a single word is written. It’s not about proof-reading; it’s about typing it correctly in the first place.
But I get DFA’s rebuttal about phonics — perhaps some can’t “hear” words in their mind the way I’m presuming one can.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The downside to being a quick typist is that you become so confident in your ability to put words on a screen
that you don’t realize when your mind transposes words, and then you don’t catch it until it’s too late. A lot of times, I’ve caught myself mixing up “team” and “time,” for example. Or “we” and “why.” No good reason. It just happens.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:30 AM PST up reply actions
I do accidental word substitutions like that
all the time. It’s the main reason I preview. They are much worse than plain typos or misspellings, because often they make a sentence incomprehensible or even give it a different meaning
If Nico’s “typing it correctly in the first place” were the standard I’d be in big trouble.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
This This This.
If it sounds right how the words actually are don’t really matter. Its how you see the word fustrated rather than frustrated or bohemouth rather than behemoth when I type comments quickly.
I can do it better than I do but it just makes me less interested in writing anything.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
I do spell check
I really don’t understand why people think that I just submit something that has hella red lines under it (well hella does but thats beside the point). I don’t. You all get what firefox doesn’t save you from.
Its like the idiots that use to tell me to look words up in the dictionary. If I knew that I was spelling them wrong, I wouldn’t. Additionally, you can’t look a word up in the dictionary without either a) reading the dictionary or b) knowing how to spell it. If I knew how to spell a word I could look it up in the dictionary but I wouldn’t need to. If I don’t know how to spell a word I don’t have an idea of how to do it right either. Dictionaries are quite possibly one of the most useless inventions ever.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Are you allowed to use them for more than just spelling?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
they are great kindling.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
You do know that they have other information in them than just spelling, right?
Like, oh I don’t know, definitions?
Well I know what the word means.
Vocabulary hasn’t really ever been a problem for me. Im no Iglew, but context and knowledge usually solve the define this problem for me.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
I always thought looking words up in the dictionary was odd advice
mostly because it’s so much effort for so very little reward.
I learned to spell through reading other people’s spelling.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
That can be risky!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ahem, I believe you mean
“That can be risque.”
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
I love looking up words in the dictionary.
I think the biggest misconception about dictionaries is that they’re only for looking up words you don’t know. I mostly use them for looking up words I do know.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
To the extent that I actually look words up,
it’s usually to find out the derivation or etymology.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
At this point, that's more what I use them for as well.
I learned so many words from context by reading as a kid that I have almost no ability to concretely define words whose definitions are in any way advanced. So I use the dictionary a lot in those situations.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
Dictionaries are pretty awesome.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Not really. They both cower to and misunderstand popular language.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
They're really great for undereducated people and children who are trying to learn what words mean.
Also, the OED cowers before, and misunderstands, nothing. The OED is the unvarnished word of God. Some people think the Bible is the word of God. They are misinformed. It’s the Oxford English Dictionary.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
all of which is an appeal to authority.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
-

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
I believe this is more of that
exaggerating for effect stuff.
I do love the OED though. I want to get a big old paper copy. The one with the magnifying glass. Hawt.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Isn't the current edition like 20 volumes?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
I floccinaucinihilipilificate the Oxford English Dictionary
Aw, SNAP!
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I have to say, I'm quite the opposite
I like blogs like CougCenter, where the posts and commentary are high quality. I’d far rather read 50 good, well-written and well-thought-out comments on a thread than 500 mediocre ones. When AN is like that— when people are taking care to think things through well and explain where they’re going— it’s the best site on the internet, because people think up some really interesting and innovative shit. When it’s a bunch of going on about strickouts and squirrels, I start losing interest pretty rapidly.
This is, of course, just my opinion.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think AN is at its best when there's a high quality of discussion, a high quality of grammar used to convey that discussion, and also a lot of wacky hijinx in the background.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Wacky hijinks are the blog equivalent of a changeup
Throw it enough times and it’s just a crappy fastball.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
well, Paul, that's why it's important that both you and me are here.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with this a lot.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
I know you do. And yet, you like me.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Why you should stay, then
In the same way you get intimidated and annoyed by the grammar police, I spend a LOT of time (more than I’d ideally like) parsing arguments I might wish to make about stats, and while I’m thinking those arguments through, the guys I’m worrying about are you, PT, DMOAS and others.
If I didn’t have to take that time to think my comment through, it would be easier for me, but it sure as hell wouldn’t improve the quality of the discourse.
I.E., more crappy fastballs…
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 30, 2010 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think I have ever eviscerated someone who is making an honest effort?
I really don’t think so. If you ask questions you will always be received well. If you post in the vein of: This observation makes me think x, do people think that is a valid conclusion? you will never have a problem with stats people and will learn a lot… its how I got here.
I don’t really get intimidated or annoyed by the grammar police and unless they are pompous asses about it, which I define as saying that they know the one true grammar, like St Joe is I ignore them.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
You have a funny way of ignoring something.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
you realize i put an exception for people being dicks like you consistently are about grammar
or is your reading comprehension that bad?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
No, your punctuation is that bad.
I couldn’t decipher what the hell you were saying in that paragraph.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
Curious what you think of CGB
There’s a lot of really high quality posts and comments but a lot of nonsensical comments that are concentrated in DBDs. Is that desirable to you or do you feel that the inanity that does get into the main posts is too much too?
Just curious as to your feeling about this because I think CGB has a great balance of great content and enough levity to make in a friendly environment.
You've described it pretty well
Generally the blog is great. Occasionally some of the pieces will have chunks of them where I’m just muttering “WTF?” to myself because they’re pure inside humor. The DBD is the thread equivalent of those crazed funhouse mirror arrangements. Although, if you get 900 comments a day, odds are five or ten will be of interest if I’m bored enough to wade through the cruft.
I really go there for the basketball threads though.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Ahh ok
I go for the football threads so I don’t know as much what goes on in the basketball ones.
There’s definitely a fair amount of inside humor, but I think it’s toned down enough (at least on the most visible stuff) to not interfere with the great content and commentary on that site.
You are missing my point
we’ve all overplayed this grammar police thing. It’s not that big a deal.
You like grammar time. You are fine with people doing grammar trolling, since its not that big of a deal as you like grammar. I like arguments to have warrants (not necessarily logical ones) and when I try to question arguments for warrants you say it is persecution.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
OK, I hear you.
I will try to do a better job of calling people out when they are critical of others on account of grammar/spelling. I will not apologize for enjoying interesting language discussions though.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I didn't ask you to apologize for enjoying interesting language.
I just want you to let me have my little part of this site to talk about trades that aren’t stupid and I get to ask people to explain why they say something. Dont try to take that away from me.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
"Little part of the site"?
How does “little part of the site” somehow equal “the entire site”?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
It doesn't
My part of the site is prospects, trades, free agent signings, the draft, analysis of performance, and rosterbation. I dont care what goes on in CT DLD Game Threads GOG etc. When I go those places I take of my shoes and abide by the societally set rules of those threads. I play plenty nice in CT.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
affirmed. he does.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 30, 2010 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
but you do care
you care not to care. If you truly didn’t care, you would ignore it.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
I do ignore it because I don't care.
The mechanics of my writing are discussed ad naseum on this site by other people. I don’t care.
I care about the hypocrisy of those involved, not the act themselves.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Wait. You're saying that I'M one of your persecutors?
Seriously?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
No, he is saying that you are trying to impose your values on others
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Oh, OK.
I like to assert my values here. Doesn’t mean I expect others to adopt them. In a great many cases, I very much don’t expect that.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Hell, you only correct people you feel would appreciate you doing so.
You lay off people who you either don’t know well enough to make that judgment or know well enough to know they won’t appreciate it. It’s probably the smart approach others should be taking too.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
by DMOAS on Nov 28, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree with the second part of this statement.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 6:24 AM PST up reply actions
This is cryptic and difficult to decipher.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
Iglew often tries to impose his values on others.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
Good grammar is not a value system.
The English language is defined by certain parameters. These are factual. They are not a matter of opinion. They exist.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
Both what good grammar is and valuing proper grammar are absolutely a values systems rather than factual.
I really have no idea how you can assert that they are facts. But I really don’t care that you insist on persisting to be wrong on the subject.
I was referring to other values iglew tries to impose.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
If good grammar is a value system than correct math is a value system.
The English language is quite rigidly defined. More rigidly than most, actually.
Valuing proper grammar is indeed not a factual question, so it’s a good thing I didn’t claim it was. Of course, neither is your weird crusade, so I still don’t see where your argumentative ground is on this.
What “other values” does iglew try to impose?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
Who defines it and created these rules and when did they do it?
Iglew tries to goad people into making illogical statements and tries to get people to model his participation on the blog just like he is fine for allowing grammar police but not allowing this is a stupid idea police.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Smart, educated people who devote their whole lives to understanding the ins and outs of the language.
You know, the “elites” of linguistics, you might say. Also known as “the best.”
Time was, being the best at something was a good thing, and meant you got at least some modicum of respect.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Can you name one of them? Or when they decided?
Was there a convention?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Oxford University Press, Harold Bloom, Associated Press, Her Majesty's Stationery Office...
They decide continually. Changes occur all the time, but they occur after thorough study and review, not because a few people on the internet can’t be bothered to correct their slovenly writing.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
Also "goad people into making illogical statements" is nothing if not your modus operandi.
Every time I’ve ever had an argument with you, you attach yourself to the most out-of-context fringe extremity of my argument you can find and hammer it over and over again, forcing me to defend it and refusing to listen to any other angle of the conversation. You invent illogical statements, you goad more of them out of people, and you thrive on the conflict this creates.
Pot, kettle, black.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
I do not make you make illogical statements. You do.
I may pounce on them as a weakness of your argument, but you can concede any of your argument if it is wrong. Defending something that is wrong is your problem, not mine.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
No, you isolate individual statements out of context and attack them as if they were made in isolation, and as if they were the only argumetn made.
There’s a very significant difference. I have no trouble backing off from a claim demonstrated to be false or inaccurate in some way; you can find numerous examples. (You, on the other hand, basically never do.) But when you choose one sentence, one phrase, or even one word, to strenuously object to, rather than responding to the entirety of the argument, it’s sophistry and it isn’t real argumentation or communication. As I’ve said to you before: life is not a policy debate round. You’re not getting speaker points. You’re just making yourself look like an asshole.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Again, I DO NOT SUPPORT the grammar police.
I don’t know where you get the idea that I do. I side with you and against StJoe on this point.
I also side with you on the point about grammatical “correctness” being a social construct, not a mathematical truth.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
STOP TRYING TO MAKE ME SAY SOMETHING WACKY!!!!!
Sorry, I buckled under the pressure.
Fermented wombat .
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I can't believe you passed up
an opportunity to say “wombi”.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
There was only one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's nice to see you've returned,
but, honestly? You feel that that was persecution?
by danmerqury on Nov 27, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
He hasn't returned! He's here to tell us that he's not here!
Now pipe down while I continue reading my own eulogy…
“I passed away peacefully in my sleep during an A’s rally…”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well at least you didn't feel any pain.
There are so many things I never got to say to you. If only there were a way to speak to you.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 28, 2010 12:53 AM PST up reply actions
If only I could answer.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It could be he was referring to the original post and its author
I write this because he could have linked to Iglew’s post with the 20 recommendations. But now we many never know; #^%&
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
No persecution is a real thing. AN is not. Iglew called it persecution. I didn't.
But when Iglew leads a charge against me where I get called a troll by people who haven’t put half the work into this place that I do and comments that Im a bitch get recommended by a lot of people I know. I know AN is no longer a community that I particularly want to be apart of.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 27, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Is there an easy way to check who had made the rec's?
Or did you check out a whole lot of profiles for posting activity?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
No and yes.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 27, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
If AN is not real then how did any persecution happen in the first place?
It’s a serious question for you if you choose to tackle it?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
There never was persecution.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 27, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
This!
In that thread you offered your opinion and it was rebuffed. It appeared to me that the whole premise of that thread was to write about trade ideas, free from the scrutiny of the more serious-minded who frequently give the scrutiny — people of ‘your ilk’ as you put it. The fact that there was scrutiny and pushback on you for posting in that thread — and announcing that the idea behind the thread wasn’t a good one — should show you something: if you’re going to dish it out, you damned sure better be willing to take it yourself.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
It's one thing to have a back and forth.
It’s another thing for a bunch of people to jump in and start abusing him AND for a bunch more to tacitly agree with the abuse.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
For the record, I didn't agree with the pile-on, either
I stayed out of that and didn’t even recommend anything. But I can understand why it happened: I think some members are fed up with how DFA engages them in threads. And rather than stand up to it at the time it happens, there’s a tendency to passive agressively take action after a more respected member of the comminity writes something first… and a pile-on then ensues.
If DFA ever comes back, I would encourage anyone to engage him on the spot and not wait for something like this to go down. It seems rather chickenshit no to do so.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure that would help
It would just cause the pile on to happen more often and to everything he says. I’m not saying DFA doesn’t need to grow a harder shell, he really does, but I’ve noticed over the years that there are a handful of people (particularly heavily stat-minded) who the moment one person piles on (particularly when it’s an AN regular) it quickly becomes a doggy pile on them. The one comment comes off innocent enough more often enough, but that doesn’t stop others from putting their two cents in as well and take things over the top. And when that happens, it becomes difficult for anyone to stop the avalanche of insanity that comes with it. It’s that insanity that, when it’s directed so specifically at you, you’re more likely to say “fuck this shit, I’m out of here. This place hates me and it’s not worth it.”
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I hear that
But this, I believe, happens only because of pushback; because the teachable moment that should have occured much earlier, was never acted upon [probably out of fear]. People will eventually stand-up to bullying but only when they feel like someone has their back. And let’s not sugarcoat it, whether or not it is intentional, DFA has bullied people even if he does not realize that’s what he’s doing [or if it’s even deliberate]. The post in question, I think, was implicitly putting it out there that “no one should be bullied for their ideas here in this thread” and I further believe it was written specifically so that the ‘meanies’ would stay away.
We should all have thicker skin. And we should all clash with someone once they cross the lines of decency. If it happened more often, I think the instance of complete tension blowouts would be far less. In other words, it’s best to relieve the tension as it happens so that the magnitude of blowout is much less.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with most of that.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I really hate myself for answering to this
I hate all the meta-arguing part of AN and/or society. I hate talking about personalities, about how A insulted B, and C stole D’s chocolate. I hate it in the real life and try to stay away from it as much as I can – and I certainly don’t come to AN on a regular basis to make my life even less enjoyable.
Having said that, I have recommended iglew’s comment and you are (indirectly) calling me chickenshit and this whole drama seems like it will linger on forever, so I might as well spoil my late night mood and get into it.
I didn’t recommend that comment because I was piling on while hiding or while I enjoyed a “more respected member” attacking DFA and I thought it would be fun to join in.
Just like DFA, I prefer a well thought argument. I am also thankful for posts and comments that are carefully written. I wish more people would contribute quality analytical content — like DFA often does — but I realize that some people do not have the time and some do not have the skill to do so. Many of them contribute in a different manner, and I appreciate that, too.
I appreciated the fact that the named thread was made under the premise of recognition that it’s purpose is not necessarily top notch ideas, but involvement of those who might otherwise not participate in the numerous existing trade threads.
Is that a recipe for a quality content? No. Should anyone have a problem with that? No.
It’s a little like a group of tax accountants deciding to have a pick-up basketball game. They want to have fun, they don’t aspire to excel and they know they are not necessarily good at it. They know they will make fools of themselves if they go to any of the courts where the “big boys” are playing, so they go the court in the corner where nobody is playing. They even put a big sign on the court – “IT’S ONLY US – TAX ACCOUNTANTS”.
And, under these circumstances, I think they have the right to play under their own rules, dribbling one against three and taking bad shots and whatever else they want to do. And I think that nobody should come over and tell them that they do it wrong and that this is not the way basketball is supposed to be played. I think just leaving them some space — even though convinced that it’s the worst basketball game ever played — is a sign of courtesy.
And I really, really believe in courtesy. It goes a long way. Courtesy can be doing little research before answering about stats. It can be proof-reading before posting. It can be restraining oneself from answering. It can come in many forms and it’s always appreciated.
For me, recommending iglew’s comment was neither the sign that iglew is great, nor that DFA is bad. Mark knows better than anyone that I don’t always approve of what he writes, and I thoroughly enjoy most of DFA’s baseball-related contributions to this site.
For me it was a way to say – I think “they” have the right to enjoy “their” thread in a way that “they” find most amusing, without having to write about it and get actively involved in something that I so profoundly hate. I didn’t want to ruin my mood by going meta, like I did now, on freaking 1 AM with thousand things more important than this to do.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
by elcroata on Nov 27, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Thanks.
In regards to ‘chicken shit’: perhaps I am wrong about everyone’s/anyone’s motivation to recommend that post.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
As an accountant and ANer
I appreciate this comment.
"Juuuuust a bit outside" - Harry Doyle
by ArunisArun on Nov 27, 2010 4:39 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
as does iglew.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
And you can probably kick my ass in basketball
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Maybe/Maybe Not
But one of the partners at the firm that I work at is a basketball coach.
"Juuuuust a bit outside" - Harry Doyle
by ArunisArun on Nov 27, 2010 4:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Probably the next thing
I will have to explain that I don’t really think that tax accountants are bad basketball players.
It’s the investment bankers, actually. In our companies league we steamrolled those guys. We didn’t play tax accountants.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Investment bankers bad at basketball?
You wouldn’t happen to be a consultant, would you?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Fummy
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
I had to bust out the urban dictionary for that
So, yeah, I’m guilty. So, are you a consultant?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yes.
That’ll be $300.00, please. I don’t do partial hours.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, payable in one single bill, please
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Oh shoot
I didn’t realize that there was a meaning to the word. I used to use it with an old friend and for us it was just another way to say “funny”. I liked the YouTube video that you linked.
No, I’m not. I’m an engineer. And although I studied electrical engineering/physics, I mostly do algorithms and programming. Which goes to say I am aware of the jokes about a certain profession (we, software guys, are not supposed to be able to repair anything or do anything with our hands at all). I both receive such jokes and dish them out in good faith, not getting offended by them and hoping I don’t offend anyone.
It’s not really the kind of prejudice/stereotyping that I consider to be dangerous or insulting and I hope that in this specific example nobody puts their (negative) focus on tax accountants. Except for Nico, of course, but he — as a teacher — never understands anything, anyway.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
I don't get it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
i don't have any problem with accountant ste
"Juuuuust a bit outside" - Harry Doyle
by ArunisArun on Nov 27, 2010 5:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's all in good fun
Accountants (in general) are a very self-degregating group. We read jokes that make fun of accoutants at the end of our weekly tax season meetings (and yes, they are terrible jokes).
"Juuuuust a bit outside" - Harry Doyle
by ArunisArun on Nov 27, 2010 5:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Rec'd partly for its wisdom,
and mostly for its stereotyping of tax accountants.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It amuses me that in the accountant world,
I’m considered the wild and crazy weird person. Whereas in the theater world, I’m the sheltered innocent uptight prude.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I agree with much of this but I strongly disagree with
I appreciated the fact that the named thread was made under the premise of recognition that it’s purpose is not necessarily top notch ideas, but involvement of those who might otherwise not participate in the numerous existing trade threads.
I have addressed further down that the thread wasn’t about being asinine until Iglew’s comment.
Is that a recipe for a quality content? No. Should anyone have a problem with that? No.
I think that everyone should absolutely have a problem with bad content.
And, under these circumstances, I think they have the right to play under their own rules, dribbling one against three and taking bad shots and whatever else they want to do.They are still trying. That is the difference. If someone makes a trade post that is within the realm of reality, or even one that I don’t think is but they justify why the did it, they will never have a bone to pick with me (though I will probably tell them that I disagree with their proposal).
That thread wasn’t the equivalent of the accountants basketball game. Its playing soccer with your hands, eventually, it will be called football and then no one in this country will play soccer. The culture of quality content needs to be protected or quality content will disappear. Short unthought out trade ideas aren’t trying but taking it less seriously, its not trying to come up with good proposals at all.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
Bad example.
That thread wasn’t the equivalent of the accountants basketball game. Its playing soccer with your hands, eventually, it will be called football and then no one in this country will play soccer.
Football’s better than soccer.
The culture of quality content needs to be protected or quality content will disappear.
Kind of like the culture of writing like an informed, educated adult needs to be protected? How do I become an elitist while you’re a put-upon protector of all that’s green and good in this world?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
Because the only purpose of language is to impart meaning.
Many use “improper” language to impart meaning. Furthermore, there is no correct way to impart meaning.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
This isn't poetry or Shakespeare
Casual writers write in prose.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
I am confused by this comment.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
...
Many use "improper" language to impart meaning.
Please explain how on a baseball blog, the knowing use of improper language imparts a more nuanced meaning than proper language
Furthermore, there is no correct way to impart meaning.
In prose, the correct way to impart meaning is the most straightforward way.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
but what defines the most straightforward way is particular to the individuals who are participating.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
Correct grammar is much less likely to be misunderstood than incorrect grammar.
There’s a reason for that.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
This is not accurate.
Systematic grammar is more easily understood, perhaps. But I would argue that proper grammar does not make things easier to understand than systematic commonplace and incorrect usage.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
But nobody agrees on "commonplace usage."
There are very few incorrect habits that are, in fact, truly commonplace. Since nobody agrees on them, they don’t satisfy your requirement of being systematically consistent, and therefore they make the language more difficult.
There’s a reason we invented language: people communicating with their own special individualized grunts and snorts wasn’t working well enough.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Ain't
ain’t ain’t a word but I am pretty sure that everyone understands what the hell it means.
Also you seem to believe that everyone agrees on what is correct. You might want to inform MLA, Chicago, APA and the like they’re really redundant and can just publish one style, since there is only one correct type of grammar.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
What's that?
The grammatical differences between MLA, Chicago, and APA are negligible, and are important primarily for purposes of citation, which is not something that occurs in everyday speech.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Why are there any if there is correct grammar?
Ain’t
Ain’t is a colloquialism and contraction for “am not”, “is not”, “are not”, “has not”, and “have not” in the common vernacular. In some dialects ain’t is also used as a contraction of “do not”, “does not”, and “did not”. The usage of ain’t is a perennial issue in English. Widely used by many people, its use is nevertheless commonly considered to be improper.1
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Because there are different contexts.
The Associated Press has a style guide for the specific context of journalism. APA’s style is for the specific context of social sciences. MLA is for language and literature studies. Chicago/Turabian is for historians. ACS relates specifically to chemistry.
I know you hate context and seem to believe that everything should exist as a black-and-white entity unto itself absent of context, but there’s really no way for me to explain my point without discussing it.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Who are you to deem what the grammar context for AN should be?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
You know what? Oxford even publishes a Conversational Style guide.
So, I’m gonna go ahead and say Conversational Style. If you feel that the level of discourse here should be below that which is generally accepted to be courteous in ordinary conversation, well, enjoy a bunch of BOTTOM LINEs.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
you seem to believe that just because Oxford publishes something means its right.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
That's because if Oxford publishes something, it IS right.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
This is an appeal to authority logical fallacy.
As it is the crux of your argument you should just resign now, since you are wrong and this is boring me.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions
And your pariah/martyrdom act is boring me.
If you’re gonna go, then just go. Quit whining.
That fallacy isn’t applicable here, because Oxford is essentially the pre-eminent authority on the English language. Because the language is a construction of human beings, unlike laws of mathematics or science, which are observed in nautre, the appeal to authority fallacy doesn’t make sense here.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
You have this backward
Language should not be something that you appeal to authority for since you use it every day. Mathematics or science which you have no knowledge of the inner workings of should be where you appeal to authority because the ability to study it in its entirety does not exist in a practical manner.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
No.
In the realm of math or science, it does not make sense to say, “Einstein says it is so, therefore it is so.” In the realm of language, it does make sense to say, “The rules say it is so, therefore it is so,” because without the rules, there would be no language.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
This is a statement that is both contrary to the meaning of an appeal to authority AND without warrants.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
There are multiple statements in the post you're replying to.
As a result, I don’t know which statement you are referring to. This is, again, genuine confusion on my part, generated by genuinely poor writing on your part.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
The writing is clear.
You are using circular reasoning. You have to follow the rules because smart people write the rules and they are smart because they write the rules.
However, arguments from authority are an important part of informal logic. Since we cannot have expert knowledge of many subjects, we often rely on the judgments of those who do. The fallacy occurs when it is claimed or implied that the authority is infallible in principle and can hence be exempted from criticism, which you are doing.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
No, it's not, because I didn't know which statement you were replying to.
And that’s at least the second time your careless writing has caused confusion in like two hours.
You are using circular reasoning. You have to follow the rules because smart people write the rules and they are smart because they write the rules.
Do you ever actually engage the substance of an opponent’s argument, or is it all just make-believe with you? I’ve said nothing of the sort.
You have to follow the rules because smart people write the rules and they are smart because they have devoted their lives to the study of the discipline in question.
The fallacy occurs when it is claimed or implied that the authority is infallible in principle and can hence be exempted from criticism, which you are doing.
I didn’t say they’re exempted from criticism. I said they’re correct. I think this is another one of those failure-to-read-exaggeration-for-effect things. You need to work on that.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
to say they are correct exempts them from criticism.
Its the same thing.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
Do you even know what nuance is?
It’s like you can’t process anything that isn’t black-and-white. You’re like an old printer.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
Further you know that its an appeal to authority
because you are claiming that they are correct even before a problem exists.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
Also from your link
Although widely disapproved as nonstandard and more common in the habitual speech of the less educated, ain’t in senses 1 and 2 is flourishing in American English
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
If people had stopped using it improperly early on,
we wouldn’t have fallen down this slippery slope.
by LoneStranger on Nov 29, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
There's just no way for you to ever acknowledge being wrong, is there?
You’re like PL78 that way. You said it’s not a word. I proved that it is.
YOU WERE FUCKING WRONG.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
No I was correct aint is not standard English.
It did not use to be in the dictionary and then it was added. Further proof of my position.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
It is not considered "proper" English
in certain contexts, but it is a word. And don’t try to turn around the different meanings of “proper” on me, because it means different things in different contexts. For someone who hates linguistics and language, you sure do try to pretend you know an awful lot about it.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
What part of non standard and improper don't you understand?
Additionally, do you think the saying “Ain’t ain’t a word” was created because ain’t is a word?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
I don't really give a damn why it was created.
If it was ever correct, it is incorrect now. “Ain’t” is a word.
Not sure why I’m bothering with this; I could get God himself to come down to Earth, prove his existence, and explain to you that “ain’t” is a word, and you’d still deny it. I really should stop letting you PL78 me.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
So you're deliberately aligning yourself with the less educated?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
When you see me use "aint" in a sentence you can say that I guess.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Not what I was driving at.
I use “ain’t” all the time. It’s a conscious stylistic choice, appropriate in certain contexts. As any decent writing teacher or writer will tell you, breaking the rules of grammar is one of the most important tools available; but you can’t do it effectively until you know what those rules are and have established yourself as someone willing to follow them.
You’re aligning yourself with the less educated (read: anti-intellectual, at this stage in American society, when college is easier than ever to get into) by championing “non-standard” English and pointing to a passage which EXPLICITLY says your position is that of the undereducated.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that's crap too.
You aren’t allowed to break the rules unless you know them first = more elitist bullshit.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
by iglew on Nov 29, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fine, then I'm an elitist.
Breaking the rules without taking the time to learn them = laziness.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Breaking the rules without taking the time to learn them = laziness.
You seriously want to criticize everyone’s grammar and then you use a fucking equals sign in a sentence? You really should lose the right to ever complain about grammar.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
This is the most flailingly hateful I've ever seen anyone on this site.
I’ve already addressed this concept. Like a couple hours ago. In this subthread. Like three or four posts up.
It’s a conscious stylistic choice, appropriate in certain contexts. As any decent writing teacher or writer will tell you, breaking the rules of grammar is one of the most important tools available; but you can’t do it effectively until you know what those rules are and have established yourself as someone willing to follow them.
There’s a difference between consciously choosing to break the rules for effect, and a screw-the-rules-because-I-don’t-like-making-an-effort attitude.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
How is that hateful?
Apparently you are the only one that gets to break the rules. Last time I checked pointing out that you are being a hypocritical ass, while generally not well received by said hypocritical ass, is hardly hateful.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
Of course I'm not "the only one who gets to break the rules."
Anyone with an understanding of them and an understanding of what he or she is doing when consciously breaking them as a stylistic choice can do so quite effectively.
And if you have a disorder, then fine. Whatever. But you know what? Instead of trying to start a damn war and picking at every out-of-context fringe concept you could possibly invent out of what I was saying (or what iglew was saying, for that matter), you could have just, you know, said that up front.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
Why would I say that upfront
when I can just easily destroy your poor argument with logic? It takes away from the dramatic effect of exposing your charlatanism and appeals to logical fallacies.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
"Charlatanism."
You really like the grandiose language. We’re not Cain and Abel. We can talk like regular people.
You haven’t “destroyed” anything. Your policy debate tactics don’t work in real life. Did your coach forget to tell you?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
Lol
We can talk like regular people.
The whole point is your stupid grammar trolling prevents talking like regular people.
A line of reasoning can be destroyed. Just like other non entities, like dignity, or self esteem.
And yes, I destroyed your argument.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
Tell yourself whatever you need to so you can move on.
The whole point is your stupid grammar trolling prevents talking like regular people.
No it doesn’t.
If you haven’t convinced me, then you haven’t destroyed my argument. Because let’s keep in mind, I never made it any sort of goal to convince you to care about grammar. This was always you attacking me for caring about it.
And even aside from that, you haven’t destroyed it. You’ve destroyed a series of straw-men that you set up for yourself. Good work.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
Ive shown time and time again that the basis of your arguement is a locial fallacy
You have not shown how it is not. You cannot win with a fallacious argument.
I have also proven that there is no such thing as correct grammar by pointing out disagreements in usage between the so called experts you love so much.
Finally, I have shown that you believe that the rules can be broken when the user feels appropriate. You have said that you should not be a judge of what constitutes good grammar, that experts should, yet you are fine deciding when to break the rules. As these views are incongruous, the only possible explanation is that you are a hypocrite.
Thus, your argument lies in a tattered heap at my feet.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
...
Ive shown time and time again that the basis of your arguement is a locial fallacy
No, you’ve confused me with about seventeen different straw-men.
I have also proven that there is no such thing as correct grammar by pointing out disagreements in usage between the so called experts you love so much.
Well, since disagreements over meaningless banal minutiae mean the entire discipline is useless, I gather we’ll be packing it in on the whole “physics” thing. Not to mention biology, mathematics, chemistry, economics, all of the social sciences, and really the belief in the physical universe itself.
Finally, I have shown that you believe that the rules can be broken when the user feels appropriate.
Your argument style is so phallic it’s ridiculous. You didn’t SHOW that. I’m the one who brought it up. You didn’t sneakily trick me into revealing something. I brought it up, and you decided it proved something. It doesn’t, of course. There is a difference between breaking the rules consciously, for a stylistic effect, and just not giving a shit about them.
You have said that you should not be a judge of what constitutes good grammar, that experts should, yet you are fine deciding when to break the rules. As these views are incongruous, the only possible explanation is that you are a hypocrite.
I know you’re not thick enough to actually believe that paragraph. A: I do not make the rules of grammar; experts do. B: I do know what the rules of grammar are, however. C: People who know the rules of grammar can and should break them when appropriate. D: I can and do break the rules of grammar when appropriate.
Nothing incongruous.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
Your analysis of your positions is dilusional if you think you are winning these arguments.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not "winning" these arguments, because I don't HAVE to win them.
I’m not trying to convince you; you don’t think language should have structure. That’s obviously never going to change. You’ve been attacking my positions—or rather, illogical extensions of my positions—for a few days, so I’ve been defending them.
Keep trying to “win” this “argument.” It’s not going to happen, because that’s not how actual people engage with one another. It isn’t a game or a war or a debate round. Just a conversation. You can’t “win” a conversation.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
If you aren't trying to convince anyone I would suggest that you keep your thoughts in your head because others really aren't interested anyway.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
And this is what it all boils down to:
you’re just mad that someone actually has the sack to stand up to you and defend his position against your insane screaming and ranting.
It’s not like I started this. You’ve been attacking me for days on end. And I’m tired of the way most posters just let you get away with that.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
hahaha my insane screaming and ranting?
You started this. You were the inspiration for this post because of you being an ass to people about grammar according to the author. Deal with your delusions in a more constructive mannar please.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
I corrected something.
Then finleyforever pitched a fit and accused me of wanting to show my superiority. I responded that I was only trying to educate, and that I resent people who aggressively defend bad English. And then you went insane on me. I didn’t start anything. This has all been you.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
No you stated that you have the authority to decided what good grammar is.
Which you clearly do not and your pompus dickishness pissed me off. If you weren’t a pompus dick then I would have left you, like I do with other grammar trolls, alone. Again its on you.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
No. I fucking didn't.
You’ve been making things up this entire time.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
you did when you decided that you can break the rules but others cant.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
Of course, I never said anything of the sort,
but it’s hardly surprising that you’re twisting things I say to suit your ridiculous little straw-man.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Where calling people "less educated"
is elitist claptrap, yes, I happily align myself with those so labeled.
Just this morning I had a friendly argument with someone in which I tried to tell her that pronouncing “nuclear” like “nucular” is a logical and perfectly acceptable phonetic development, and that disparagement of the pronunciation has no linguistic basis and is nothing but cultural (and sometimes political) snobbery.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
by iglew on Nov 29, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That particular pronunciation is a bad thing to hang your contextual-language hat on
since it is essentially an anti-intellectual code phrase among various elements of the US right. It’s quite clear that GW Bush, for instance, chose to pronounce it that way very deliberately. There’s no possible way that no one ever told the President of the United States that he was using a nonstandard pronunciation.
“Nuclear” and “nucular” have, as far as I’m concerned, quite different meanings. The second one is overtly anti-intellectual.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
So what you're saying
is that language and its use or abuse has a demonstrable effect on the world?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
Sure
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I always wondered,
do you think he did that to intentionally create a connection with the Biblical myth?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
Leave 'em wanting Gomorrah
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
"Nucular" predates
George W Bush by several decades.
If using it is deliberately anti-intellectual now, that’s only as a reaction to it being denigrated as stupid for so long.
The politicization of this, by both sides, is entirely stupid. It should be no more controversial than saying “nuptuals”, “comfterble”, “mannaise”, “sherbert”, etc.
Why don’t we rail against those people who pronounce “wh—” words with a “w—” sound? Because that particular phonetic practice is common in regions which are socially privileged, that’s why.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Mine is, when it comes to pronunciation, not to reason why
Why it has political overtones is somewhat beyond my present understanding. That it has political overtones is not.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
"Comfterble," "sherbert," and "nuptuals" may not be political issues
but they drive me nuts.
IF I FEEL STUPID WHEN I MAKE A MISTAKE THEN EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD TOO
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
It really used to annoy me that Jimmy Carter said 'nucular'
and then also said he had been a ‘nucular engineer’.
No, really. No, really NOT.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 30, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
It's not remotely logical.
The word is not spelled in a way that would suggest such a pronunciation.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
Well, that's never stopped English before
“Knight” is not spelled in a way that would suggest its pronunciation either, at least not unless you’re a member of the seventh-century A.D. Frisian minor nobility.
My objection is more that the pronunciation, like it or not, now carries political content.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
There are etymological reasons for the spelling and pronunciation of "knight."
“Nuclear” is a new enough word that are no such considerations. Additionally, regardless of its age, there simply are not etymological reasons to pronounce it like a three-year-old.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
For a guy who is so hip on
linguistic education, you have a simplistic view of how phonetics works. It is a common pattern when there are consecutive rounded vowels for the second one to get palatalized, eg nuptials > “nuptuals”, Stan Musial > “Stan Musual”.
Furthermore, there are about 30 fairly common words in the language ending in the -cular sound, nearly all of which derive from a -cle root. The brain works by assimilation and suggests a similar pronunciation on the lone word that ends in an unfamiliar pattern.
To say “nucular” is a more natural fit for the English language. It requires conscious attention to correctness to resist it, in the exactly same way that it requires conscious attention for an anglophone to say “or-dœvruh” instead of “or-durv”.
You may or may not consider it a “correct” pronunciation, but to say that it is “not remotely logical” or that there are no etymological reasons for it is ignorant.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Requires conscious attention?
I even had a speech impediment for a couple years growing up (still have an extremely minor lisp, according to some people), but when I heard the word “nook-lee-ur,” it seemed pretty clear to me that it was pronounced “nook-lee-ur.” Because, you know, that’s how people were saying it, and that’s so very clearly how it’s spelled.
I was, for most of childhood, a kid who read books and learned about everything that way, but I couldn’t interact with people to save my life until mid-high school. Not an uncommon story.
I’m fond of telling a story about that time in life regarding my pronunciation of the word “misled.” For some reason, the first time I saw it in print, it did not leap out at me as the past-tense form of “mislead,” possibly because I hadn’t heard the word “mislead” yet. I read the word as “my-zulled.” Even after I started hearing people say the word correctly, I didn’t connect the dots for several years. So believe me, I get it that people see/hear/read/speak words incorrectly. But I don’t think “nuclear” should be as tough as it is. I think it’s just a case of hearing enough people repeat it that it just lodges. Same with “irregardless”: it should never have been a word. We already had “regardless” and “irrespective.”
the exactly same way that it requires conscious attention for an anglophone to say "or-dœvruh" instead of "or-durv".
To me, that’s different. Nuclear is a lot more natural to the anglophone than hors hors d’oeuvre (by the way, I had to look up the spelling of that to make sure I was doing it right. Took me less than three seconds. Not a big deal.)
but to say that it is "not remotely logical" or that there are no etymological reasons for it is ignorant.
The reason you gave was not etymological. It was phonetic.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:56 PM PST up reply actions
The etymological part is that
-cle/-cular words reflect a pattern in Latin. The “nucular” sayers are unconsciously trying to make that word (which is exceptional on account of coming to us by way of new Latin) conform to the standard.
Your story about your background of lots of reading and little speaking helps explain why these “mispronunciations” disturb you. The reality is that those of us who actually say “cum-fer-tuh-bull” rather than “com-fter-bull” are the minority.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
just stop
I’m not going to engage you any further in your pseudo-political positions. This is a baseball blog, not some place for you to espouse your personal beliefs of contextual language, that sports owners shouldn’t run teams to make money, the death of quality content in writing, and other nonsense. Have fun on your island.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
You are the one that made the comment about the correct way.
I don’t know the correct way. Im not the one that corrects folks.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
+1
The whole “language evolves so I intentionally violate it” argument, as used by Cummings and Eliot, applied specifically to art. Cummings in particular was disgusted with people’s apparent interpretation of his work as license to trash the language in everyday usage.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
I disagree with your implied
black-and-white distinction between poetry and prose.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Eh.
Poetry is more about rhythm. I think there should be more of a distinction. When I hear/read “poetry” that is essentially just prose with randomly inserted line breaks (and sometimes not even that thinnest of courtesies to tradition), I don’t accept it as poetry. This is precisely the reason that we have to be vigilant about grammar, spelling, and word choice: eventually, the meanings of words will break down.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
I agree that poetry is mostly about rhythm.
But what do you think about rhythmic prose, like what emperor nobody writes sometimes. Or Nabokov’s “ecstatic” prose. Is that poetry or prose? My point is that it’s not a black and white distinction.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I never saw anything written by Nabokov that seemed like poetry to me,
although I’m not well-versed in Nabokov. There are more poetic styles of prose writing. A contemporary example would be Stephen Elliott (by the way, you are hereby required to read The Adderall Diaries; it’s amazing.)
But I’m generally pretty bored by the whole genre-bending prose/poetry stuff. To me, it’s one or the other.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Pale Fire
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
I've heard about it; it seems really interesting.
From the sounds of it, that might be one of the only legitimate cross-breeds of poetry and prose out there, although I might still come down as calling it poetry rather than prose. But I need to read it first.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
Lolita, light of my life, fire of my loins.
My sin, my soul. Lo-lee-ta: the tip of the tongue taking a trip of three steps down the palate to tap, at three, on the teeth. Lo. Lee. Ta.
Not to mention that list of kids names later on in the book.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I watched the Jeremy Irons (?) version of that movie...
IMO, it was actually better than the Stanley Kubrick one.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 29, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
It's hard for me to imagine
this as a movie. Far more than most books, it’s about the language.
It would be like making a film out of Remembrance of Things Past, or for that matter Ulysses. (Though no doubt someone has tried it….)
I suppose you could attempt to do a similar trick with the language of cinema, but then it’s a completely different work.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
That whole question reminds me a lot of the issue of translating poetry.
My brother has been digging on a couple of Polish poets lately that he keeps recommending to me, but I feel kind of squeamish, because it doesn’t feel like I’ll be getting the real thing. Poetry is nothing if not language; these poems won’t be the actual dude’s poems, they’ll be a translator. But my brother explained that the translator was hand-picked, and kind of helped me think about it in the same way you think about a film adaptation of something like Watchmen; you see the brilliance of the original creator, but you also see the brilliance of the person who brings it into a new place. (And yes, that analogy requires that you think the Watchmen movie was brilliant. I am one of about three people that feels that way.)
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
The entirety of the Mission just heard you badmouth Kubrick.
Better run. If you make it to Orange County by sunrise you might live.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, it's poetic in a certain sense of the word,
but it’s prose to me. I’m not saying I don’t like it; of the last three books I’ve loved, the one that meant the most to me was The Adderall Diaries, precisely because of that kind of use of language and rhythm.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
I gather you're generally pretty bored
by a lot of things that excite me.
Ah well, de gustibus and all that.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I don't think that's true at all.
In terms of non-baseball conversation, your comments are the most interesting ones on the site to me.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
I hope you will forgive me
for not wanting to further discuss this topic.
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
I will :)
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
dude, go read the last post in the jack cust in right field front page article.
i think we all can agree that this post is the enemy.
unfortunately, what you call 'the last post'
cannot now be deciphered a day later and a dollar shorter…
Currently, the ‘last post’ is a rather innocuous one by WaddellCanseco. Better if you blockquoted it…
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 30, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
this one
CUST is a ROTTEN OUTFIELDER. To play him out there means you have given up on your primo upcoming talent CHRIS CARTER and SWEENEY (gotten for Swisher), who hits about 30 points higher than Cust anyway. Makes no sense.
Instead of fooling with RETREADS like Berkman — even ORDONEZ would be a better gamble or someone like RICK ANKIEL — or taking a chance on Beltre, famous underachiever when under long contract, why not yield some young pitching, maybe Sweeney or Barton and go after someone who could of value to the franchise for a LONG TIME …someone like MATT KEMP, ADAM LIND, even, perhaps getting back SWISHER and at least corrected one of Beane’s many mistake. For that matter, CARLOS PENA would be another. (We’ll never get back ETHIER or CARLOS G.)
I also don’t see why Beane is so in love with BARTON — anyway can play decent defense there and he only hit TEN HOME RUNS!!!
I have an opinion AND I AM VERY ANGRY about it.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
God I'm glad I stayed out of that topic for the most part.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Entirely Meta, but...
Suppose A makes a thread about loving X for people who love X. And B comes into the thread and drops an Anti-X bomb and people react to it. Doesn’t the fact that B can clearly see what the crowd thinks and how poorly they’d respond to B’s opinion sort of mean that if B makes the comment, he/she’s bring it on him/herself? Now, it doesn’t give the right to pile on B too much, but it shouldn’t be unexpected.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I like pie.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
prove it!
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
OK first, let's take a look at this pie chart....
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ah... but occasionally circle does get a square.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Now that's just immoral!
What’s next? Triangles shacking up with rhombuses?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Some day... [hopes]
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Round is a shape...
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I can't believe you passed up
an opportunity to say “rhombi”.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yes, to some extent
Groupthink is a great way to discourage criticism. For instance, I didn’t bother criticizing the callup of Chris Carter when it happened, because the threads were full of yahoos proclaiming that it would be the greatest thing in sports since the forward pass. Frankly, I just wasn’t interested in the fight at that time.
That being said, sometimes there are a bunch of people standing around all vigorously agreeing with one another (thank you, Neal Stephenson) about something totally, utterly wrong, and at that point I feel like interjecting some reality, and taking the heat in return, is almost a kind of public service. A “you’ll thank me later” sort of thing.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Forward passing is allowed?!
Someone better tell it to the Italian soccer squad.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Wackity schmackity doo!
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 28, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Alright, porn, now we're talking!
Oh. Crap.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
An instant one of those wouldn't really be that great, would it?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 28, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
I'd agree that there are certainly times when that's definitely the case.
But if the group prefaces their groupspeak with “we know we’re being irrational” that should discount that. Without the preface, you’re 100% right in that if there’s good reason to point out everyone catching on to an erroneous excitement, that tempering that excitement is “a kind of public service” as you said. But, as one (if I’m remembering correctly) who was publicly, openly against the call up, you do have to thread lightly when making the statement to the group. You have to know that going over the top is not an appropriate approach unless you have thick enough skin to take it.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I agree that calling you a troll was over the top.
But dude — and I say this as someone who just had a really good offline conversation with you last week and feel as good about conversing with you as I have in a long, long time — your comments on that thread were just lame. You were kind of asking for it on that particular thread.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You mean the part where I suggested encouraging poorly thought out trades was a bad idea and 20 people agreed with iglew that was persecuting them?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 27, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
No, more the part where someone
posted a thread specifically designed for people to let loose on trade ideas good or bad, without putting these ideas on other threads, and you said, “I think this is thread is a bad idea. It encourages brief and un thought out trades without detailed explanations,” and then said, “Im sorry that people need a place explicitly to have what they admit are stupid baseball discussions.”
It comes across like you think you should decide what kinds of discussions other people should want to have. You could have — gosh, I don’t know — said nothing if you didn’t care for the idea of the thread.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 27, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
I will tell you why I recommended it DFA
I like you and consider you a friend off-site, and the troll thing was off-base. I have to agree with Nico, I think it was wrong of you to come in and say what you did, considering that you hold such a high standard on your own posts, then to come in and rain on the parade on a clearly marked post.
Trust me, I can relate to how you feel. In your shoes, I would feel pretty crappy reading some of those responses, but I think it would be completely illogical to trash the whole site because a few people, in compare to the whole, went over the top. I rec’d the statement because it reflected how I felt, and did not see it as a mandate that you are a jerk or did not belong in the community. And MikeV.’s comment….you KNOW Mike! Come on! You know it was his playful way.
I think if you leave it is for the wrong reason and I personally think it would be the bigger thing to do.
Your friend,
Joe
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry, bigger thing to do to stay
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
You make an important distinction:
One can recommend or refute a comment without recommending or refuting a person. That comment wasn’t “iglew vs. DFA” — it was “iglew’s comment” that was being recommended or refuted.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
um when one of the comments is X person is a bitch or is persecuting people it absolutely is a repudiation of that person.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
Did iglew call you a bitch?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
He said I was persecuting people
the DFA is a bitch comment was rec’ed 7 times.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
you went OUT OF YOUR WAY
to read and negatively participate in the commentary of a thread that might as well have said “DFA – DON’T CLICK THIS.” As a matter of course, that’s probably not a good idea.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:46 AM PST up reply actions
It did not. The author specifically asked if it was a good idea and included stats links.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
Well, no one should have to write that for you to not enter it
Else, “asinine trade thread” should have been warning enough.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
The author asked if it was a good idea. WTF is the problem with answering
Why don’t we let the author of the thread comment:
Just FYI…
the word asinine in the thread title doesn’t mean your idea HAS to be asinine…it more means that any of us coming up with a trade ourselves is asinine in and of itself because it’s not like the A’s go trolling AthleticsNation looking for trade ideas.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
So, in other words, you're defending the author's idea that commenting on baseball blogs
Might simply be spinning our wheels. I fail to see how this strengthens your position.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:59 AM PST up reply actions
that the post wasn't intended to be for stupid trades
but rather that the title referred to the idea that all trades ideas are fairly asinine since we don’t know who everything.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
It said "DFA is a bitch"? I don't remember it saying "DFA is a bitch."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
Mike is mike and I took it that way.
It was the other people rec’ed that comment. You say it is illogical to trash the whole site because of a few people, but it wasn’t a few, it was many.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
OK
So a mob threw a brick through your front window. I mean, as long as we’re comparing war stories here, I got damn nearly tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail.
I eventually came back, partly because a lot of people were very nice about the whole thing, but mostly because I decided that I didn’t really care to cut off my nose to spite my face, which you seem intent on doing over this nonsense.
I don’t know. Maybe it would be a good idea for you to leave for a while and reevaluate whether you want to participate or not. I certainly thought hard about it before I opted to come back, but I’m pretty sure that I ultimately made the right decision.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Nov 29, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this entirely, which is why im following your advice.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you for that decision. ;-)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think taking a break would be good for many of us.
I’ve done it. So has Sirbed. So has Pam.
It doesn’t have to be a big drama. Just nice to take a few months and remember that life goes on without AN.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Ze SB Nation overlords are not happy
vith your adwice that people take breaks from the AN. Delivering one horse’s head to pillow.
-Ze Corpahration
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If you're even questioning whether or not you should take a break,
you should take a break. I’ve come to that point in online gaming a number of times, and leaving is always the right choice. I’m all for people being caring about the community at AN, but if you’re actually putting emotional stock into the happenings here, then you need to take a break.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 29, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Hey -- I own 51% of the emotional stock on AN
It’s why I’m both bankrupt and mentally unstable.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No wonder I can never find the motivation to join CT threads
Nico’s hogging the juice.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 29, 2010 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
those people all suck, anyhow.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
I did, much more quietly, last summer too
I wasn’t in the Bay Area, wasn’t watching any games, and really felt like I had nothing much to add. So, while I lurked occasionally, I probably didn’t have fifty total posts from June to August.
It was no big deal.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Life does not go on without something to do while I'm bored at work.
And I refuse to be a Bejeweled person. I will not give in to that monster temptress!
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
…apart…
/sigh
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 27, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
Dude, I led a charge AWAY from you.
You like a certain type of fanpost. A lot of other people like that type of fanpost, too. That’s cool. Sometimes I even participate in them.
But some people want a different type of fanpost. And so somebody went into a new post, clearly indicated it was supposed to be different, and even went so far as to call himself “asinine” so that the point would be abundantly clear. And what do you do? You come into that very thread and say “I think this thread is a bad idea” and the reason you say it’s a bad idea is because it wasn’t the type of thread you would write. Are you fucking kidding me? Of course it’s not the type of thread you would write. That’s the whole point.
Look, I can’t speak for anyone who recommended my post, but just speaking for me, I don’t think you’re a bitch. I really like you. Truly. I’ve told you that many times, and you know it’s true. But when you come chasing after us to tell us that we can’t have non-DFA threads even where DFA isn’t around, then yeah, I’m going to call you out, because that’s bullshit. It doesn’t mean you’re a bitch, but that was a bitchy thing to do.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Shit, I should have read the rest of the conversation before posting.
Several others answered better than I could have, and I’m just re-stirring the pot now. Imagine that comment deleted.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Can't you do it?
Mod and all?
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Technically, I have the ability,
but when I’m posting as a regular user, I believe it’s inappropriate to use it. I think I should have to take my lumps and look stupid sometimes just like everyone else.
I believe the mod ability to delete comments is only for acting in mod capacity, like if someone posts porn or something.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Since the comment was more or less directed at you
I think you still had a right to speak for yourself even if it had been answered.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Well, one always has a right to speak.
But sometimes it’s no longer constructive.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
True.
I guess i meant more “right” in the “constructive” sense.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
One always has a constructive to speak?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes... always.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Does Little Caesars sell that hot and ready?
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Reading the thread: The ultimate preview function.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This is just not an accurate reflection of what happened.
From the original post:
I have no idea if this’ll work as well for baseball as it does for basketball, but it seemed worth a try. Some resources:
Fangraphs
Cot’s Baseball Contracts
Baseball Reference
StatCorner (for wOBAr, etc.)
Also, I don’t know how accurate it is since the site was taken down, but I still have the MLE Calculator bookmarked, and it still calculates MLEs for me. I don’t know if the numbers are messed up due to the site being down for a while, but it’s still at least usable for a general idea of what their MLE would be.
Why the fuck would anyone questions to whether or not the thread would work or is a good idea and not expect it to be answered?
Why the fuck would anyone list links to stats and contract sites if the trades were suppose to be clearly asinine?
Maybe the author can comment
Just FYI…
the word asinine in the thread title doesn’t mean your idea HAS to be asinine…it more means that any of us coming up with a trade ourselves is asinine in and of itself because it’s not like the A’s go trolling AthleticsNation looking for trade ideas.
When I commented the thread wasn’t about being stupid for stupids sake (which i still think is stupid) but rather transporting an element from other SBN sites to AN. YOU Iglew, turned it into an anti stats anti intellectual anti DFA pro asinine post with your comment. The only other comment before mine was a completely reasonable proposal by mikev.
I am protective of my view point and the parts of the site that I cherish. Talking about sports with any level of intelligence is hard enough anywhere, especially when most sports are marketed at the lowest common denominator. If you look at pretty much all the other SBN sites that have trade proposal catch all threads and they never have quality trade discussions. I pointed that out and you claimed I was persecuting you, when infact you were taking a thread that wasn’t meant to be asinine and taking it there. This is on you for ruining the stated intent of a thread not me. I was suggesting that the thread wouldn’t achieve the stated objective of starting quality discussion and that is bad.
Ive said it time and time again. Bad content ruins blogs. The only thing that is left when the content leaves is the people. But guess what. The AN insider joke and innuendo circle jerk isn’t fun for a lot of people when they first start and don’t understand half of it (I like it fine now but it took a long time being here and knowing people before I did). People have kids/life gets in the way and people drop off. Who will replace them? The person that thought that a post about a trade was interesting and gave them a level of depth that the Chronicle doesn’t or the person that thought they were going to an A’s website that is wondering what the hell is going on with the squirrel army (hell I basically live at AN and I didn’t get that one)?
As long as I am here I will always try to protect good content. You and 21 other people said that that was persecuting people; that is bullshit and thats why I am leaving.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 7:37 AM PST up reply actions
tiresome

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 29, 2010 7:47 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
you, grover, dan, nsj, elcroata and many others make thoughtful FPs
If you truly thought this place needed as much thoughtful commentary as possible, you’d stick around. But, apparently, the idea that the whole place is not 100% thoughtful commentary makes all of AN a bad thing.
Nico has said this, so I’m stealing his words a little, but AN is a lot things to a lot of people. Some people like it more social than analytical; others feel the opposite. We can all co-exist, but not if we fight for the “spirit” of AN. The “spirit” (whatever that is), is what it is. If you leave, you take a little of it with you. Have fun with it, then.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 29, 2010 8:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Pfft. Spirit. Everyone knows AN has no soul.
...being a role model I probably wouldn't recommend eating dirt. But at the same time, I'm not trying to be a role model. I'm just trying to eat some dirt.
I really disagree with this.
We can all co-exist, but not if we fight for the "spirit" of AN. The "spirit" (whatever that is), is what it is.
I think it is important for everyone to fight for the part of AN that makes them want to stay. Otherwise others will tread on that part until the grass underfoot perishes.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
Athletics Nation is not a war,
no matter how determined you seem to be to believe it is.
Sometimes, people are nice!
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
nor is a public budget but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't lobby to keep funding to things they value.
same thing.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
Money is a zero-sum situation.
Athletics Nation is not.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
yes it is.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
One person can enjoy intellectually stimulating baseball discussions, wacky hijinx, intellectually stimulating non-baseball conversations, and game threads.
One dollar cannot be spent four times.
Money is zero-sum, Athletics Nation is not. Keep trying. I’m sure you’ll figure out a way to justify your aggression sooner or later.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
In theory yes. In practice? not really. Name the people that participate in all of those forms of AN.
Its basically me lenscrafters and dan. There is only so much that people can care about.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
Oh you're a barrel of chuckles, that's for sure.
I enjoy intellectually stimulating baseball discussions. You may not care for my contributions to them, although we agree more often than not.
I enjoy wacky hijinx.
I enjoy intellectually stimulating non-baseball conversations.
I enjoy game threads.
And I think most people are at about the same place as me.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
you don't participate in CT
which is one of the ways that I measured it.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
I do from time to time.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
I generally speaking read all the content.
I don’t participate in the discussion sections mostly because I dislike argumentation as a means to Truth. Also there are several other “fringe-y” members who participate in most if not all. Paris comes to mind most readily, but I know there are others.
But you’re right, the majority of the people here have their own corner and stay mostly within their own corner.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 30, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
MikeV is another who
is a frequent participant in both types of discussions.
Also cuppingmaster. And R-Star when he was still active. And me. And Nick. I think maybe WaddellCanseco, too.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I cant believe that i forgot mikev
R hasn’t been around here nor do I remember him in the stats threads enough to qualify. I excluded you because you don’t like the debate portion, same for bloom. I haven’t seen Nick in CT or around here very much recently but he is kinda an everywhere guy. Waddell might go into CT type things but I haven’t seen it, though if he does hes definitely an everywhere guy.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
Bloom and I do like debate,
we just like a different style of it.
I don’t see CT as the only definition of “wacky hijinks” threads. A lot of that happens in the DLDs and game threads. I myself don’t enter CT threads very often, but I don’t think that makes me a serious-baseball-discussion-only person.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
regardless its still a very very small number of people that are everywhere.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Dec 2, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
So you’re saying that if you’re enjoying something, you are actively taking away the enjoyment from someone else? Poppycock.
Id argue that thread clutter does this.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but now you're projecting *your* utility onto others.
Do you have any idea that a sizeable portion of AN feels this way? I really doubt that (m)any people think that AN is a zero sum situation.
just because people don't think that something is zero sum doesn't mean it isn't
Also Id argue that increasing the amount of stuff that people don’t enjoy is something that no one likes.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:46 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know why you're going on this assumption that AN
or any of the internet, for that matter, is zero-sum. The amount of content, crappy or good, is increasing.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 30, 2010 7:04 AM PST up reply actions
right. increasing content is not really a good thing
Im arguing that I have to spend more time here looking for what I define as quality content than I use to. Since I have a limited amount of time my enjoyment level of the site goes down because in practice I read less quality content for example good threads get pushed down and lose participants faster.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
I rec'd this. I don't generally enjoy CT threads (because by that point I'm too drunk to get the jokes)
But I have no problem whatsoever with the fact that they exist on AN. I think this whole thing is now completely over-the-top. I’ve gone back and looked at the original ‘asinine’ thread where you, dfa said you quit, and there’s way more of a fight going on here than there was there.
It’s time to hang it up, by which I mean this fight, not your presence on the site. My viewpoint (which doesn’t mean shit to shinola, since I’m a damned newbie with no creds), and iglew’s, and Nico’s, along with many others, is that it’s a big site, there’s room for a lot of viewpoints, and what’s the harm with throwing up some ill-informed trade ideas even if that wasn’t what the author really meant.
Your behavior on that thread is no different from you or me or whoever going into a CT thread and saying that there’s too much sexual innuendo (which word in and of itself has always thrilled me as a meta-word), and then when shouted down, getting mad that and hurt you were treated poorly.
I’d probably have just gone away and sulked for a while (or for good) and not replied if mikev called me a bitch, but we don’t know each other. You, dfa, apparently do know Mike and, I guess, should therefore know he was being sarcastic. Being called a troll must have hurt. Now, here’s another whole thread about whether or not you should leave, etc…
Your point of view is yours and you have a right to stick to it but you are not going to win converts to the idea that all trade or statistical discussion on AN must present logically perfect constructions, that nowhere can the thread ever be hijacked, and that grammar is prissy and unimportant, but trade talk is important and must always be thought out.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 30, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
Here is the thing
you cant say this:
what’s the harm with throwing up some ill-informed trade ideas even if that wasn’t what the author really meant.
and this:
Your behavior on that thread is no different from you or me or whoever going into a CT thread and saying that there’s too much sexual innuendo (which word in and of itself has always thrilled me as a meta-word), and then when shouted down, getting mad that and hurt you were treated poorly.
They are incongrous modes of participation. Either the author’s intentions for a thread are paramount (which I believe they are) and it is inappropriate to try to capture other peoples threads by engaging them in ways that are unintended OR what iglew did to capture and change the thread was right and I should get to go into CT threads and bitch about the inuendo. You cant have it both ways. What happened is that Iglew did the equivelent of going to a CT thread and complaining about the inuendo and yet I got called a btich and a troll.
I strongly believe that the author’s intent is critical to maintaining respect and decorum on this site.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
well, the author clarified within the post, didn't he?
He said:
the word asinine in the thread title doesn’t mean your idea HAS to be asinine…it more means that any of us coming up with a trade ourselves is asinine in and of itself because it’s not like the A’s go trolling AthleticsNation looking for trade ideas.
And, by saying that, the author makes the following points only: That good trade ideas are allowed, or even encouraged. Further, he makes the point that however good a trade idea is, we should not take it too seriously, since any trade idea we post is not likely to be turned into reality. He is not saying what you read into the post: that asinine trade ideas are not allowed. He is certainly not requiring that all trade ideas must be carefully thought out and substantiated by the linked resources he posted.
Further, iglew did not intentionally hijack the thread. You commented first, and your comment at the time indicated you no more understood the meaning of the Post as you now construe it than did iglew. If, in fact, you believed at the time that the Post was simply another place to seriously reason well-thought-out trade ideas, you would not have said it was a “bad idea because it encourages brief and un thought out trades without detailed explanations”, now, would you? iglew replied to your post, not the other way around. So, if he misconstrued the purpose of the post, so did you.
I certainly can say that there’s no harm in people misconstruing the Post’s purpose. I don’t agree with you that we always must have sound reasoning behind any proposal. When someone does put up an idiotic trade proposal, someone on this site will always take them out, explain the error of their ways, and sometimes I find I learn more from the reasoned destruction of someone’s stupid idea than I do from reading someone else’s well-thought-out idea.
That is entirely different from saying that I can call a whole thread (or, as in my point, a whole type of thread) a bad idea, that I can go tell people who are enjoying themselves to stop.
Further, although intentionally hijacking a post is specifically discouraged in the guidelines, as you very well know, it happens all the time. If you object to that, every time it happens, as iglew objects every time a person posts a picture without a title, I could live with it. But you don’t. You only object when it doesn’t go where you want it to go.
I for one (and I’m not alone) very strenuously object to the right you claim to delete an entire thread which contains both good and bad and well-thought-out and stupid inane comments.
If you don’t like that your post was hijacked, I would prefer that you then rewrite the post with an explicit threat that you will delete it if it gets off-topic. Don’t delete other people’s work. It is your right, but it isn’t right to do what you did, so far as I’m concerned, just as it isn’t your job to police other people’s use of the site.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 30, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
My comment was in response to this
I have no idea if this’ll work as well for baseball as it does for basketball, but it seemed worth a try.
Not the post’s premise.
Furthermore, I know that it happens all the time and I object to it often.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
I believe you, but in that case you did not communicate very effectively
I certainly had not thought that until now.
Further, perhaps it wasn’t you who deleted a post when it went off-topic?
I see below that PL78 did do that recently.
I really have trouble with that (deletion) happening. But, if it was not you who did (my memory is a post which turned into a Cust thread?) my apologies.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 30, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
+1
I really do not understand why it’s come to this: for this to be all laid out with the time and effort you used to make sure that what you were writing would be spot-on and interpreted correctly.
Will the message get through? Did it get through?
by LowcountryJoe on Dec 1, 2010 4:31 AM PST up reply actions
Huh?
anti intellectual
This from the guy who appears to think that proper grammar is just a way to keep the common man down? You need to figure out whether you’re a champion of the proles or a hoity-toity New Yorker snob like me.
The AN insider joke and innuendo circle jerk isn’t fun for a lot of people when they first start and don’t understand half of it
Of course it is.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
Can you get off the grammar thing? It has nothing to do with this.
I am a champion of ideas. How they are communicated is irrelevant to me as long as I understand them.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:50 AM PST up reply actions
Which means you don't like people correcting the grammar of others.
I’m not going to “get off the grammar thing,” because it is perfectly emblematic of your hypocrisy on this issue. You’re incensed to the point of leaving the community because of people who don’t rise to the level of what you consider intellectual discourse, but when I raise my voice about people not rising to what I consider to be the level of intellectual discourse, you make a stink about it. You do. Stop denying that you don’t. It’s happened, and it’s happened multiple times.
The only reason you claim a difference between the two positions is that you think grammar doesn’t matter. Well, some people think what you value doesn’t matter! That’s the crazy thing about living in a subjective world in which the only truth you can objectively prove to yourself is your own existence.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
You don't seem to understand at all.
I don’t care if people correct other peoples grammar. I object when you do it because of this statement you made:
Somewhere along the way, the West went from a society of people that valued education and sought to always be learning and improving to a society of people who view education and erudition as suspicious, and hold to be virtues things like "salt of the earth," and "common man."
Which has nothing to do with grammar, besides you using it as a test case. You are just wrong when it comes to your historical linguistic construction. I don’t care if you want to make a fool of yourself “correcting” perfectly adequate grammar.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
Your last sentence makes my point more perfectly than any rhetoric ever could.
When it’s foolish to uphold the standards of correct knowledge, we are truly living in a ridiculous society.
I object when you do it because of this statement you made
Not true. You’ve objected to the simple fact of people correcting your grammar and the grammar of others many times before. And, let’s not forget, I never would have made that statement if I hadn’t been challenged for the Godawful sin of telling a guy that the term he was looking for was not “at nausea.”
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Please point to me objecting to people correcting grammar?
I cant find two examples other than the instance where I objected to your pompous tomfoolery about you knowing what correct grammar is.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
I rec'd mikev's post and here's why.
First off, I think you’re one of the strongest contributors to this site, and I’ve always respected your work. You know that. But when you deliberately go into a non-stats-based thread and hijack it, frankly, it’s pretty annoying. And when people pile on you for hijacking a thread, it’s not persecution for your belief system—it’s obviously because you hijacked a thread. Do I think you’re a bitch? No. But were you being one in that thread? Yes, and I stand by it.
BECAUSE NONSTATS THREADS LINK TO FANGRAPHS AND BBREF ALL THE TIME?
do you people even read what people write?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
The thread might as well have been called, "Hey, DFA, this thread isn't really for you, skip over it."
“Gee, should I go in there, get pissed off at the dumb ideas, make an incendiary comment about how threads like this will destroy the site, and almost certainly touch off a firestorm?
…yeah, I’m pretty sure I should."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Threads that ask if they are good ideas and link out to stats sites generally are for me.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
I can't help chiming in
I understand why asinine trade thread may not have been intended as a non-stat trade thread. It is actually pretty clear to me now that it was not intended to be as asinine as most ANers took it to be (very clear actually).
But the reality is that most people did (and continue to) think that the thread was intended to be an asinine trade thread and since CaliforniaJag is nowhere to be found we don’t know. But given how poorly the debate has gone thus far I think I would continue to pound home your opinion of the intended purpose of the thread, not to argue why you don’t think asinine trade threads are a bad idea.
Again, sorry to jump into a debate like this, but I just hate seeing people leave over misunderstandings.
"Juuuuust a bit outside" - Harry Doyle
by ArunisArun on Nov 29, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly, my grand point was this:
The thread’s design wasn’t for asinine trades
Evidence: Cal Jag’s comment down thread saying it wasn’t for asinine threads. The original post’s link out to stats sites and Cots contracts.
I was worried that the thread would turn into short and stupid trade ideas which would bleed over to other threads. Even the author suggested that it might not work.
Therefore it made sense to comment.
Then iglew chimed in, predictably missing the meaning of the post, and it became a hate DFA and his belief that people should warrant their augments fest. Oh and plus crappy trade ideas. Exactly what I was concerned would happen. I didn’t hijack the thread. Iglew et al did.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
Once again
If you had originally understood the post to actually not be for asinine trade ideas,
You would not have objected in the first place.
You only realized it was not intended that way when CalJag clarified. Otherwise, why object? He threw the floor open for trade ideas, rather than posting one of his own. Has this not been done many times before?
Else why object, unless you thought- as most everyone else also appears to have done- that the post was specifically for people’s asinine trade ideas?
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 30, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
I just came up with your epitaph: "And one MORE thing..."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I like this one better.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
I'm inTRIGued
AN fanposts run off on tangents all the time
Is there a warning sine when this is about to happen?
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
I can give you that info if you'll just co-sign here...
Great, now just hang on a secant…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm so obtuse.
I had to look up the word ’secant.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 27, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Agree.
I think language is fascinating, and I believe that precision in expression is closely related to clarity of thought. No, I can’t prove it. But I love it when I find something so well expressed that I can’t help but wish I had wit enough to have written it. Just yesterday, for example, I stumbled onto JFK’s 1960 speech to a gathering of the Protestant clergy. It was dead, solid, perfect. Clear, powerfully reasoned and impossible to misapprehend. The holy trinity. I intend to find out who wrote it.
So it’s surprising to me that some of the stat-head fratority (or is it a sorernity?), who will split the finest of hairs over numerical minutiae, find semantic precision to be bothersome. It seems to me the two approaches ought to have a lot in common.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 27, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with this.
That does seem to be a disconnect.
My experience however seems to indicate that having information and being able to effectively communicate that information are two different skill sets.
Apparently, we can’t all be Chuck Klosterman.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Or Ted Sorensen.
Apparently he wrote the speech to which I referred.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 27, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Stat people may be a subcategory of scientists and engineers
Perhaps they find grammatical rules too mushy and therefore feel they are not important?
Or, as in the case of dfa, they may have mild dyslexia or related issues.
I think neither. I think literacy and numerancy possibly reside in different parts of the noggin.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 30, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Yep.
Yeah, sometimes someone will make a dickish comment about a grammar or spelling error. So sure, it would be better if these people weren’t such dicks, but that’s true regardless of whether they’re commenting on grammar or something else.
Same could be said about comments made that deride non-statistical observations about baseball. As long as they don’t involve personal attacks, it’s nothing to worry about. Though some have become so good about not crossing the letter of the law in this regard, that those on the receiving end don’t feel any different about it.
I guess it works the same way with grammar as it does statistics, as it turns out.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Azz LONG azz we dnt al staRt typin lyke dizz
then I think we can all live with couple of typos
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
by MissOakland on Nov 27, 2010 1:41 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
So what the eff's going on in this post?
There is a division within AN, but it ain’t between those who use proper spelling and grammar and those who don’t.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
Is it between those who support the squirrels and those that support the sock puppets?
Or those that think Jack Cust is the greatest player of all time and those that think he stricks out too much?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
kind of...but where you bean?
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Please, that war has been over for months
The Sock Puppets surrendered long ago. The Seven disbanded from lack of shit to blow up.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I agree wholeheartedly.
The letter ‘u’ is underutilised on this blog. Along with the letter ‘z’ replacing the letter ‘s’ – it’s a crime.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Colourable?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Let's not seriously pretend that the reason anyone is against "grammar police" is that it's off-topic.
Easily 40% of the comments on this site are off-topic.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 27, 2010 3:25 PM PST reply actions
I've always understood that people who are against "grammar police" are against them
because they don’t like people focusing their criticisms on the structure of their post rather than on the content.
The majority of grammar-correcting comments I see (anywhere, not just on AN) stop to briefly correct the grammar and don’t address the content of the post at all. That can be irritating from the post-writer’s perspective. I personally support proper spelling and grammar, but I don’t support ignoring the content of a post just because it contains a misused word.
by UrgentMirth on Nov 27, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
When reading posts/blogs and comments I try to remind myself...
that comments are only one part of a post. Think about all of the great content that many ANers consume that they never take active part in on AN. In the same vein, think about the ANer who believes that for a given post the most value that they can add is their grammar policing.
"Juuuuust a bit outside" - Harry Doyle
by ArunisArun on Nov 27, 2010 4:30 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I don't disagree with that
But I would say that sometimes you haven’t yet formed an opinion, but you can see a level of potential confusion that you either a) want clarified as you do this or b) could see others mistaking and spinning the conversation in the wrong direction.
Some people on this site make great posts that some of us simply don’t have anything to add to it. Sure we could not say anything if we don’t have any involvement in the conversation (and for the most part that’s actually what I personally do), but if the problem is glaring or has you puzzling as you walk away, it’s a little difficult to not say something or hope it gets sorted out by someone else who does have a comment.
Case in point, there was a recent thread I commented on (non-grammar) that had to do with clarifying an issue. Not because I specifically thought the OP was wrong, but because in looking at what was posted and doing my own brief research, I couldn’t find anything that supported what was claimed and I was hoping the OP could point out what I was missing. Things sort of went horribly downhill from there.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I don't think anyone objects to "Hey I didn't understand this" or "Hey could you clarify this"
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions
Um...
Yes… someone did. Then went apeshit over it, deleted the fan post and then went apeshit again… and again…
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
ooh, ooh, I know who!
...being a role model I probably wouldn't recommend eating dirt. But at the same time, I'm not trying to be a role model. I'm just trying to eat some dirt.
Right well thats bullshit if they do.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
We're all cooped up in this small house
and the cabin fever is goin’ ’round…
Somebody should brew up some hooch or start a Hungry Hungry Hippos tournament to keep us occupied until Spring Training starts.
"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Nov 27, 2010 3:48 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I own Hungry Hungry Hippos.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
I AM Hungry Hungry Hippos
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
In the grand scheme of things, I think I'm probably closer to HHH.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
I was excluded by the other kids from playing Hungry Hungry Hippos in rainy day recess in first grade because of my race.
true story
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry. You need a hug.
If you were in Sarasota right now, I’d hug you, even though you’re a dirty, dirty hipster.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
I think I do too.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
[ahem]
Grammar is good.
Grammar is grate.
I want some more grammar
All over my plate.
Thank you.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 27, 2010 4:01 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Trolls (of all varieties)
I can’t think of any circumstance where calling a troll a troll is a good idea. If they aren’t a troll, then they have been falsey accussed. If they are a troll, and know it, then calling them one is unlikely to diswaid them of their troll-y ways. If they are a troll but don’t realize it because they are delusional, then they will likely feel falsey accused and are probably more likely to be irrational in their response. Not only that but said delusional troll is far less likely to learn of their true troll nature if they believe that the troll-accuser is disrespectful and likely full of bull-plop.
If anyone knows of a reason why calling a troll a troll is a good idea, please let me know as I realize that I may have over-simplified the issue.
Great post OmahaHi. As a Groll apologist I started out quite offended at the beginning of the post, but after reading the whole thing I couldn’t help feeling more relaxed about the whole issue.
"Juuuuust a bit outside" - Harry Doyle
by ArunisArun on Nov 27, 2010 4:20 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I would diswaid anyone from calling anyone else a troll
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
Trowlle.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
at your survise
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 27, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Humor gone awry.
I’ve been accused of trolling when my attempts at humor fall flat. The accusations served as a warning that I wasn’t communicating well, and was perhaps hurting feelings.
Custian.
OK then I'm DEFINITELY a troll.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
In the grand scheme of things, don't we all live under a bridge?
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Time to come clean
The first paragraph is what I really think. "having to read the grammar police threads get tiresome and old."
The rest is misdirection. To put myself in the shoes of those who do like to be grammar police, I tried to make up some extreme examples of what they do. I probably crossed the line more than a few times by being worse than that I was trying to expose, but I have acually witnessed Grolls, Srolls, and Frolls much as I described them. It was along the line of Andy Kaufman humor and how he will play gotcha with his audience that I decided to write a twisted tale of deception and see if I could get away with it without anyone noticing.
The reality is All grammar police are Grolls to me, and I lay claim to being the Proll.
"Now and only now does the Postwriter-Groll suddenly go " Keyser Soza " on all"
by telling you what I was up too.
By saying a few simple things like this: “Most grammar police do there best, not good or evil, should
be mostly applauded, do not fear, do not hate”. I was laying the foundation to say everything I really wanted to throughout.. Of course no one would ever think of “themselves” as the Groll. They would all see themselves as the one doing their best to help and being silently applauded.
I really wanted to counter the simple praise, with some critisisms like this:
“Banal Intercourse, pompous rhetoric, superfluous instruction, weak and starving-unable to compete, verbal circle jerk, enthralling themselves, manic self-importance, do not want amateur English professors, irritate you, long rants, inconsequential, 99% wouldn’t know or care about, confused- mindfked and helpless.”
I tried to say bad things about being a Groll with biting descriptions four times as often as I said good things about them not being descriptive at all.
Sprinkled throughout I tried to give blatant hidden clues what I was up too, at the same time playfully claiming superiority,
“Now it gets fun, really get a chance to show off, mystery contestant enters the ring, canny enough to write a fan post just to fish for a Groll with all the consequences that may entail, laying a trap to bait unwitting Grolls, only understood by a intelligent mind, de facto enigmatic visionary, strong off weaker Grolls, must slyly cultivate, Hidden mighty Proll, may expose himself.”
I was thinking at least a few of my intended audience of all the heavy hitters on this site that are frequent grammar police would have seen through my attempt of satiric humor. Obviously If I just came out and said these things outright, I have a feeling bloody murder would have been screamed and the post flagged three ways to Sunday in about 5 seconds. LowcountryJoe is the only one who might have picked up on what I was trying to do, which either I did too well or not very well at all.
I know there was no reason to have not taken me literally on a blog about sports. I know it would be hard to put together the illogical pieces the way I intended without some warning, but I figured the quirky long story might give some a hint I was up to something more than meets the eye. Mostly I was trying to give those who don’t like to be policed the tools and words(Groll) to counter being policed. If you have made an effort to edit and taken alot of time to reserch and write something (which I did), I feel you should be left alone. You now really know what side of the divide I fall on. I guess now that you know what I was up too you may have to look back to change your votes and really give me a piece of your mind which is more than fair. Would you beleive me if I said I enjoyed trying to be a wordsmith and it was really all in good fun?
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
Oh yeah?
Well, I’m glad I didn’t read it, or I’d feel used. Or this post either, for that matter.
Except you miss-spelled “believe.”
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 28, 2010 6:38 AM PST up reply actions
and used "there" when it clearly called for a "there."
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 28, 2010 7:24 AM PST up reply actions
So, you're saying that there is no "there." there?
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 28, 2010 8:28 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly. thank you, df.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 28, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Why thank... oh... you mean dogfather... never mind... carry on... nothing to see here...
{shuffles feet, grumbles, pees}
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Oh no! I've been taken in!
…wait, what? All I saw was a post written by a guy who clearly doesn’t like people who correct the spelling and grammar of others.
Your master plan doesn’t seem to have worked that well, unless your master plan was to create a conversation about whether grammar and spelling are important or not.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 28, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
no it worked out just exactly how I wanted
I was hoping by creatively writing this short story it would help create a discussion that would let everyone here have their say on why we should or shouldn’t police grammar and to what level. I felt this discussion needed to happen. My goal was to see if I could get some of the over the top unnecessary policing of grammar that has taken over lately reduced to a less intrusive level and give those that agree with me (not many) the tools and words (Groll) to help combat it.
I went in with an open mind and after reading the comments, I have changed my mind in that discussions on language are interesting, have value and should be called out on If wrongly used. I still feel grammar, such as their or there, or punctuation , if it is a few minor mistakes, are boring, unproductive and won‘t change a thing. St Joseph you are probably the worst "offender" in my opinion and most of my comments like "superfluous instruction" were with you in mind. You did make me laugh with this comment "There’s a reason we invented language: people communicating with their own special individualized grunts and snorts wasn’t working well enough."
I am probably in the minority and that’s ok. The poll seems to be equally divided between good, evil and neither. But perhaps those that post a lot lean towards good and those who just read and do not participate in most discussions lean towards evil. It looks like if could be a lot of fun for people to have a running DLD thread about grammar with the most egregious errors pointed out and hashed over. More people are passionate about this than sports it seems. And now “the Postwriter-Groll will then prepare to disappear and hibernate for another winter.”
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
by OmahaHi on Nov 29, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The worst offender?
St Joseph you are probably the worst “offender” in my opinion and most of my comments like “superfluous instruction” were with you in mind.
Most of what you are probably referring to only comes out when someone decides to start a war over a small correction. My correcting “at nausea” is hardly an assault on anything or anyone. It’s a minor annoyance at a minor error expressed in a minor way. All the other stuff about why I feel bad grammar is detrimental to society only comes out when people decide that said minor expression of minor annoyance is worth getting into a big thread-derailing argument over.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
chicken or an egg thing
if minor expression of minor annoyance was not expressed, no thread-derailing argument would have a chance to happen. Obviously a lot of people are annoyed enough with being corrected, that they may continue the thread-derailing argument that being needlessly corrected could start.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
Nah... a single comment like that is not the impetus of that thread's destruction.
It wasn’t over the top or really out of line which made it easily ignorable.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
It does by putting StJoe on a pedestool which begs others to knock him off.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
Based on some of the follow up comments, yes.
Based on the original comment, not so much.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Pedestool=pretty awesome, if not very functional, thing.

Way better than a pedestal. Not being a dick here; I’m honestly pretty enthused about the pedestool.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
So are you admitting yet that you DO have a problem with "grammar police"?
Because the comment currently being discussed was nothing more than a correction of “at nausea.” If you really feel that way about that specific comment, then you need to stop claiming you have no problem with grammar corrections.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
I have a problem with you going postal and claiming you know everything when clearly I can whip you on liguistical theory.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
Here's a list of things I have never claimed:
1) That I know everything.
Also, you can’t “whip me” on something you refuse to acknowledge has any validity, and which you have apparently decided has an extra syllable. You’ve barely discussed linguistic theory. You’ve ranted about how dumb dictionaries are, and about how morally reprehensible it is that anyone would ever try to create a uniform set of guidelines for communication (also known as “a language”), thus interfering with the primal, innate rights of man to grunt and screech in his own individualized way, communication be damned.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
you claim you know what correct grammar is. unfortunately you do not.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
You're just randomly making accusations now.
The only ground you’ve been able to gain has been my “admission” that the rules can and should be broken on occasion, and my “admission” that grammarians don’t always agree on every tiny detail. Neither of those is a meaningful point. Neither of them means I don’t know what correct grammar is.
And I still can’t get over the silliness of you, the dude that hates the very idea of correct grammar, telling me I don’t know what correct grammar is.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Im telling you that there is no such thing as correct grammar.
Its like you telling me that the Islamic concept of the God of Abraham is not that different than the Christian concept of the same God which is proof that God exists. Im saying there is no God. (all just used for illustrative purposes).
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
If the only way you can effectively express your viewpoint is through analogy,
then your viewpoint is weak.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
Wow this is one of the more ridiculous posts ive seen from you and thats saying something.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 30, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
I enjoyed your correction of "at nausea"
as well as Paul’s correcting your “nauseum” to “nauseam”. It was all fun.
What I don’t much care for is your pronouncements that correct grammar is universal and must be upheld and those who don’t observe it are less intelligent.
And even then, I don’t really object to you holding or expressing such opinions, I just really really disagree with them.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
by iglew on Nov 29, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't say less intelligent.
If I did, I shouldn’t have, but I don’t think I phrased it that exact way, and that’s not semantics, that’s an important distinction.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
this.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
You enjoyed my correction of "at nausea"? You don't object to my holding the opinions I've expressed?
Sure. That’s why you’re so worked up.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
No I don't object to you holding the opinions that you do. I object to you being a dick about it.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
My opinion is that there are hard-and-fast rules of grammar.
Have I said you’re a bad person for disagreeing? No. Have I personally attacked you for disagreeing? No. Have I impugned any aspect of your character because you disagree? No.
I’ve attacked the disrespectful, mean-spirited attitude with which you approach disagreements, this method which is all about winning arguments and not about actually trying to have a conversation with people.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah because calling me uneducated and anti intellectual is make nicey time with St Joe
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
You've been deliberately aligning yourself with anti-intellectualism w/r/t grammar from the word "go."
You’ve been gleefully attacking a sizable group of intellectuals. I didn’t invent that.
And I didn’t call you uneducated. I said you wrote in a style not reflective of a high level of education in English. And you chose not to reveal that you have a spelling-related disability; you preferred to make it some kind of moral issue, which, to be fair, I was more than happy to do as well. But none of this had to happen. You could have explained your situation.
You chose to make a fight out of it, and this isn’t the first time you’ve done that to me or to other people. You pick at things out of context, you extrapolate people’s positions to illogical extremes, you ascribe straw-man arguments to reasonable people, and you generally create a very adversarial climate. Don’t act so Goddamned surprised when people stand up to you and give you an adversary. It’s only what you’re asking for.
And by the way, I know I do this way more than is acceptable as well. I’m working very hard on staying a non-smoker (almost 1.5 months on the wagon), and sometimes I get a little short. On top of that, I have an overbearing persona to begin with. I’m very sincerely trying to not do it as much, and I think I’m a lot better about it than I used to be. But I couldn’t start working on it until I acknowledged that it was unacceptable and let myself become aware of it.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
I am not aligning myself with anti-intellectualism, I am aligning myself with anti-elitism.
You absolutely called me uneducated and now are retracting this position because its embarrassing to pick on someone with a disability.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 29, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions
Find me an example of me actually calling you uneducated.
I realize you think I did, because you only argue with straw-men, but actually find evidence of me calling you uneducated.
And it’s not at all embarrassing to pick on someone with a disability if the person doesn’t have the courtesy to say up front that they have a disability. I’m not just going to assume that everything you do that I disagree with is the result of a disability. Do you also have a disability that impairs you from engaging with other people in a courteous manner? Do you have a disability that prevents you from having a normal, civil disagreement, as opposed to a debate round?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 30, 2010 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
That's five lanes of highway -- in both directions -- and most people have ridden on it at least once.
I think you’re well familiar with this stretch of road so be very careful as you honk at another driver.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 29, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hell, I'm not worked up in that sense.
I’m just having a good time with a passionate discussion on a topic that interests me. I have no hard feelings toward either you or DFA, and I hope that’s mutual.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
As I've said elsewhere, you're fun.
I don’t get to have these kinds of long-winded conversations about specific subsets of knowledge anymore. I used to live with or very close to people I’d known for four, five, six, seven, eight years. We could have these kinds of conversations until four in the morning. Those people live far away now, and the friendships I currently have are still being built. In the interim, it’s nice to be able to talk at length about things like this.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
[Insert repetitive comment about not trusting SBN poll results here]
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
The fanposts that get slagged are not the ones that reflect a lot of time researching and writing them
elcroata’s fanposts sometimes contain grammar errors because English isn’t his first language. Nonetheless they invariably get 10 or 20 recs, and very rarely turn into grammar-fests, because a. they’re awesome, and b. he doesn’t post them unless he’s put a lot of time and effort into making sure that they’re well written and valuable. dfa’s fanposts, same (though in his case I think it’s because of a kind of learning disability).
A lot of times people go after grammar because they’re actually trying to be nice and not savage the content. I’m a congenital jerk, so I generally skip right by that and go straight into shredding the content, but I understand the impulse.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Nov 28, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
You had me at "banal intercourse".
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I thought that was a[nother] typo.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Nov 28, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
When I noticed the "b" I quickly lost interest.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's interesting...were you reading it backward?
Me; well I prematurely got excited because, being AN, I though it was going to be banANal intercourse. And me being ripe for that kind of discourse, I keep my eyes peeled for it.
by LowcountryJoe on Nov 28, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
I'd advocate a permanent banning of anybody who writes like a 5th grader (unless, of course, they ARE a 5th grader)
There is no damn excuse for being so inept at communication (and so lazy) that you can’t get (most of) it right. It’s not that hard.
Communication is important, and if you don’t want to look completely fucking stupid, you should probably make sure you’ve mastered communication. Should we be ripping on the occasional typo? No. We all make them. I probably have some in this comment because I’m complaining about others. Should we point out every minor comma splice? No, probably not. But if somebody makes a FanPost and it looks like something they drunk texted a friend, we should absolutely bitch slap them in the direction of doing it right.
Also, if you’re a grown up and you can’t figure out your/you’re you have a lot more to worry about than what a baseball team is doing. These people should be mocked and criticized forever.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 28, 2010 10:26 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
What happened to just having high enough standards for yourself to write with basic competence? You want your team to hustle and give 100%, but you can’t stop to ponder whether “you are” would fit where you’re (that’s correct because “you are” would fit — and it took me less than two seconds to double-check it in my mind) about to write you’re/your?
Correcting small typos, and other minutae, publicly is obnoxious. But when someone writes in a lazy manner that suggests little pride in their work, and someone else complains, the problem is with the writer. What tends to get overlooked is how little effort or innate skill it takes to write better.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 28, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What's wrong with banning 5th graders?
OK, maybe it would be bad to ban them permanently.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Then who will the 6th graders beat up?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The 4th graders of course.
Banning 5th graders allows for 4th and below.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Excellent, then. Carry on.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wait, did this entire post turn into a discussion about dfa's massive ego?
His posts are pretty good, nowhere near as good as he would like to think they are, but still worthy of a read. His ego and argumentative nature is why I personally do not care for him as a poster (I would never judge a person anyone based off the internet though, some are vastly different people than their writing style). dfa, you just need to chill out bro, AN is cool and I like it how it is, if you want it to be strictly some dry website full of charts, tl,dr essays and graphs and new metrics, then yeah go elsewhere, but realize we have that and a whole lot more here.
I also had a hearty laugh that I made a fanpost that interpreted a sentence correctly, when others could not understand it to the point of a mod changing the subject title, as we, um, actually did outbid the Rangers for Iwakuma, and its kind of messed up the powers that be wouldn’t wait until it was wrong for real to change it, and at that point, I would have done it myself. But you know what? Deep down, I don’t really care. This will be the only time I’ll mention it, I just figured it pertains to the thread in that it was some next level spelling/grammar Nazism in that I interpreted the report and used deduction that proved to be correct and that everyone cried about it being “misrepresenting facts” and even outright lying, when it was reality. Sometimes you gotta take heat from the masses even when you are sure you know whats right. No harm, no foul.
I generally care about spelling and grammar but that’s just for myself and when writing an actual piece. The 1 liners are often funnier with no capitalization and text-speak. What I will not tolerate is people spelling McGwire and Rickey wrong. Those are 2 names any A’s fan should write without thinking twice. On the flipside, I hate spelling Duchscherer and wish we could just use a symbol for him or call him Justin D or something. Its possibly the worst last name in MLB history, aesthetically.
Oh, thanks
Because I know I was really missing talking about your thread again. It’s a shame you don’t really care about it, otherwise you could have mentioned it here, where it so rightfully belongs. But, on the other hand – you hate it when when threads supposed to be about topics turn out to be about posters and their egos, so I can totally dig why you didn’t mention it at all.
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
by elcroata on Nov 28, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
AKA, if PL78 still doesn't understand why that headline needed to be changed
(and it was changed by me, not the mods), that’s…sad.
At a moment in time where a team may have won a bid but it hasn’t yet been officially confirmed that they have…the word “may” is essential to the headline.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 28, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
The difference between "true" and "not true" is so very small, after all
I mean, it’s three letters. How could anything important be only three letters long?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Nov 28, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
God would like to have a word with you.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Like the time a jury was given the options of
“lethal injection” or “life with the possibility of parole.” The missing word there was “out.” Since this person was a really fucked up individual, the idea of him getting paroled scared them into the whole “execute him” instead of simply letting him rot in jail without parole. Oh, but how a single word can make such a difference.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
So you care when it's convenient for you?
Cool.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
PL78 is just making sure that this post
is not completely about DFA.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
by iglew on Nov 28, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This comment produced some of the funniest lines I've ever read on AN.
Sometimes you gotta take heat from the masses even when you are sure you know whats right.
Even if that means deleting the thread where you were proven wrong and then later repeatedly bringing it up as if you were right all along?
But you know what? Deep down, I don’t really care.
Clearly.
by LongLiveLangerhans on Nov 28, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The phrase "he doth protest too much" keeps floating around in my mind
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Oh....my.....god....
I also had a hearty laugh that I made a fanpost that interpreted a sentence correctly, when others could not understand it to the point of a mod changing the subject title, as we, um, actually did outbid the Rangers for Iwakuma, and its kind of messed up the powers that be wouldn’t wait until it was wrong for real to change it, and at that point, I would have done it myself.
There’s a pretty good chance Cliff Lee signs with the Yankees. If I made a fanpost right now titled “Lee Signs with Yanks”, and he signed with them, say next week, it wouldn’t make it ok. So please, stop pretending that making assumptions is the same thing as being right. There is plenty of room for opinion here at AN, it’s why I love this place so much. But stating your opinion or prediction as fact is far different than just posting an opinion.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
The best thing is you act like I said "WE SIGNED HIM!!!!"
when I only said we outbid Texas, which was reported as being true and was what happened….its just an exercise at excruciating minutiae at this point.
No, that's not what I was acting like at all.
If you say something happened, no matter what it was, it should have happened. It doesn’t matter that this was just a posting bid fee, and it doesn’t matter that ultimately it happened. The problem is you saying it happened when it didn’t. It happening does not make it right.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Dude, you wrote
There’s a pretty good chance Cliff Lee signs with the Yankees. If I made a fanpost right now titled "Lee Signs with Yanks", and he signed with them, say next week, it wouldn’t make it ok
Thats exactly what youre saying. I said “we outbid Texas for Iwakuma, now we wait to see if anyone else bid on him.” Literally it got changed because I apparently “jumped the gun” in the A’s outbidding Texas, which is how I interpreted it in the first place. It DID HAPPEN, so I was perfectly fine in saying that. But, like I said, it really is excruciating minutiae and i dont think about it all the time, it did come up today so thats why i said it.
For the eleventeenth time,
at the time you wrote that the A’s had outbid Texas, that news was not officially confirmed. Had that aspect of the bidding been officially confirmed at that point, there would be no problem, no controversy, and I would not have changed the headline. WHICH WAS AN INCORRECT REPORT OF WHAT WAS OFFICIALLY KNOWN AT THE TIME.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 28, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I....but.....
….nevermind.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
He's not worth it.
He’s a CGV waiting to happen, but he’s not worth it.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
More than anything else, I'm a storyteller
Well, that’s not really true, but I normally don’t pass up on an opportunity to tell a story if I can help it. So here it goes.
My adoptive grandmother was born and raised on a little island in the Adriatic sea and, with one exception, she spent her entire life in the village of Božava, population 109. She lives on an island, but like most people of her age she can not swim and in all of her life never once entered the probably most crystal clear waters to be found in all of Europe. She spent most of her times working in the field, instead, developing such thick skin on her hands that she can squash wasps without noticing it. When not working on the field she is either cooking or in the church. In summer evenings, when the Mediterranean heat relents a bit, she will take a stroll to our makeshift harbor and count the sailing boats that docked there. Then she will walk up to the neighbors terrace and recount the stories of the last year’s village festivities all over again.
In her almost 90 years she never once went to Zagreb, Croatia’s capital. As I said, she only left the island once, to visit her sister. She went to California.
She spent two months with her sister and her family, and when she came back she seemed more content than ever. What she had long suspected, was now a confirmed fact – Božava was indeed the nicest place there is on earth.
Now, what does that adorable creature have to with this thread? A lot.
Božava is very probably not the nicest place there is on earth, although I am on the bandwagon. Just about anybody knows it’s not. I think, deep inside, perhaps even she knows that. Still, she believes it is and it makes her happy. Now, if anybody were to come over to my grandmother and start convincing her that she was wrong, I would readily punch that person on the nose and throw him over my favorite cliff on the island. On the other hand, if grandma were to start convincing everybody how she knows the best way to compare beauties of the places and how anybody who doesn’t agree with her is crusading against her – she would not be adorable.
I guess what I’m trying to say, it’s probably OK to be wrong. Or to be loud. But not both at the same time.
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
by elcroata on Nov 28, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
I think I love you.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
It's just Swedish eternal winter, it makes your emotions run wild
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
Not just any Swedish winter,
supposedly the coldest in like 100 years? Of course this is happening while I’m here.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Well Stuttgart decided
to have a snow fest on a day that I have to drive to the airport to pick up my wife.
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
.
His posts are pretty good, nowhere near as good as he would like to think they are, but still worthy of a read.
What happened to not addressing posters personally?
thats not the rule
if it was, id comply. in fact i used to until i got dragged down to this level. maybe ill go back, i miss it.
Sort of a personal attack though. That is against the rules.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I just had a revelation
Are you AD from AC?
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
I love it when we fight over the fucking stupidest things
I kinda wish I knew what everyone was talking about so I could play too. Sheesh.
I'm here to talk about Don
We hate the Dutch.
Carry on…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You do?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Your just jealous cuz you canno't understand good spoke english.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wanna go Dutch?
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 28, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
How about you pay this time,
and then we never see each other again?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But, but
I can’t quit you
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 28, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
You either, cowboy!!!!!!
We should have lunch. Not together, obviously, but we really should have lunch as it’s an important meal.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You ate the food, you drank the wine
Do the right thing. Be a mensch.
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
tl, dr
if I were you I would cut it down to about 500 words.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
This is the Twitter generation
Better make it less than 140 characters.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or do it like Jon Heyman
Less character, more words
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
It's Monday, 9:23 PM CET,
and it seems to be a perfect time to lock this thread for any further comments.
.
PxP: Self-promotion - How it works, Bunting, Pitch Counts, Managing, Run Expectancy, Streaks, Coors Effect
I guess it's no longer time for perspectives.
Signing off is me, Lionel Osborne.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 29, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yes please.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
At the risk of starting all this up again...
Usage defines content in language.
The English language is not now nor was it ever static. Language is a living, breathing, malleable object and it is defined by the people who use it, not vice versa.
The only reason the current manifestation of our communications has any rules or laws to it at all is because Samuel Johnson decided to write it all down and codify it.
There’s a reason that the English department’s in the humanities section and not the sciences or even social sciences.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 2:05 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Amen, brother.
Getting to know the English language is like getting to know the woman you love. Any rules or standards you may declare about her are inspired by the joy of knowing how her mind and her body work, not for the purpose of dictating to her how she must behave.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
This is true, but...
if you want to be understood, you should adhere to the standards of writing as codified. The penalty is a difficulty in communicating and the risk of ridicule. We see this at play here every day. I think this is general enough to be accepted as given. There is no point in asking Why? It is merely a philosophical debate that has no end. Either get on the grammar bus, or resign yourself to a lifetime of explaining why you don’t capitalize your initials, Mr. cummings.
If you choose to disregard the accepted rules, you are making a statement. Perhaps you are a rebel and, in the immortal words of C. W. McCall, you. “ain’t-a gonna pay no toll!” Perhaps you are artistic and use words for feel and emotion and texture. Perhaps you are simply unaware of the proper usage conventions and would appreciate correction. Perhaps you’re too important to worry about what other people think (in which case you should just ignore the comments, cough cough). In any case, ignoring the commonly accepted rules is a statement by itself. Even if it is unintentional. Sorry if you don’t like it, it just is. The same way that people judge you on your appearance every day. It’s a bitch, but it’s the fact, Jack.
Really, you gotta deal with it or go make your own language – with no rules, man. RubyRidge! Woooo!
Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell
by fridaynightfan on Nov 29, 2010 2:38 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
any person that cites CW McCall automatically gets my recommendation.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Very well stated. Prepare to be eviscerated for imposing your philosophy on others.
By the way, speaking of standards, be sure to use the ol’ reply function next time.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
I knew someone would get me on that one...
I blame sock puppets, or Grohls, or afternoon drinking…
Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell
by fridaynightfan on Nov 29, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
And BTW
This has to be my favorite thread for a while… It’s got everything! Fights, metafights, hissy fits, spats, someone making fun of Nico, Bloomie giving away his location, EVERYTHING! I mean it is a real clash of the titans for a cold November day.
Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell
by fridaynightfan on Nov 29, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, someone making fun of me????
Bollocks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You're ready for January, right?
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
Where everything is my fault?
Bring it AWN!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
January is It's Nico's Fault on AN.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
It's a nice tradition
Simple yet accurate.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I wish I still had the sign shop so we could make a banner.
And the last remnants memory destroys.
by Leopold Bloom on Nov 29, 2010 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
Never mind the bollocks, it's the sexy guns.

Or something like that.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 29, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
Expectations
A lot of the “official” posts I’ve read over the last few years could’ve used quite a bit of editing. I’m not talking about minor, subtle things; I’m talking about fundamental problems. (On occasion, these problems have been so severe and frequent that I’ve chosen to simply stop reading the article.) Do I think it is polite to leave comments in people’s posts about grammatical problems? No, but, I do think it’s fair for readers to have certain expectations, particularly for posts that appear under the main section, and I do wish editors would spend a little bit more time educating themselves and their writers about basic grammatical rules.

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