Rajai a Blue Jay??
Sounds like the A's are about to offload some of there OF surplus in the form of Rajai Davis. Exact players not yet known but the A's are supposedly getting reliever trystan magnuson and possibly more. Wow Beane is a busy, busy man right now. I guess thats a good thing right?? Let's keep the wheeling and dealing going!! (As long as it makes us better)
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/5010162771304449
283 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Trystan Magnuson
Sounds like a good name for miss Germany
RIVER CATS: AAA CHAMPS!
or a strongman competition
It’s not easy filling the shoes of fan favorite Bobby Crosby, but Cliff Pennington says he’s up to the challenge.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 18, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
RaJay!
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
More on Magnuson
@oakclubhouse
Trystan Magnuson is a towering (6’7’’) right-hander who walked only 10 in 73.1 relief innings in Double-A last season. Fmr supp 1st rounder
There's no crying in baseball!
Or the RockHounds
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
Billy Beane is a complete and total genius at finding pitching.
Blue Jays fans are already not liking this deal, plus we get more!
by PL78 on Nov 17, 2010 1:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Farquhar is probably better than Magnuson
but that’s more a glance at the surface. (and the fact that Farquhar is 2 years younger—- only 23)
Isn't he the little guy that
that hired Shrek to rescue Princess Fiona?
Raj was a very exciting player
And he seemed like a genuine nice guy. But he’s a fourth OF and headed for a raise. The A’s already have two bench players making multi-millions (Jackson, E5). Plus, a RF upgrade would make Sweeney an ideal backup.
Might as well acquire a reasonable reliever with an awesome name. Add Magnuson to FDLS as rookie relievers who might make the pen next year.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I wish Rajai well, I was a fan
I definitely expected him to be moved as he would bring back more than one of the A’s many oft-injured outfielders
I really enjoyed Rajai on the bases...and
thought with Rickey Henderson around, he would only get better. I hope Rickey is still around to work with the Carter and the A’s, and the minor league clubs too.
Good luck, Rajai!
#8. Seriously, how cool a name is Dallas Braden?
or at least pinch run
It’s not easy filling the shoes of fan favorite Bobby Crosby, but Cliff Pennington says he’s up to the challenge.
by DyeLongJustice on Nov 18, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Or, we could have just dealt or non-tendered Jackson
At least Rajai plays.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 17, 2010 3:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
this.
I would take Raj over CoJack anyday
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
And Rajai stays healthy
And Rajai stays healthy
And Rajai stays healthy
by richwol1 on Nov 17, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So can we send CoJack instead
and hope they don’t notice?
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
Awkward.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 17, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY ALL LOOK ALIKE?
Bad players, that is.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 17, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Carson, Watson, Gross
totally triplets
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
by MissOakland on Nov 18, 2010 12:41 AM PST up reply actions
Being healthy isn't really that big of a deal if you're not very good.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
From the plate back to the dugout?
Don’t think that matters either.
by asfansince1989 on Nov 17, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
Being healthy is a big deal when you're fast and can post a decent batting average
You’d rather have Gabe Gross or one of the Matts playing every day?
Please don't bring up
my nightmares
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
No I'd rather have a player who doesn't suck.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
doesn't suck but is always injured?
remember we’re the a’s, we have to choose, we can’t have both.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
CoJack
Doesn’t bring back this haul though, thus Raj went.
by supersugarCrisp on Nov 17, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
Haul?
My parents found more valuable stuff in my late lamented grandmother’s attic than these guys.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Correction acknowledged
Haul was wrong word to use, and lazy on my part.
by supersugarCrisp on Nov 17, 2010 11:16 PM PST up reply actions
Now it really is "Rajay" Davis
Send that damn communist name-spelling where it belongs— Canada!
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
(insert crack about California)
(waits for flag)
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
{flags comment with Canadian flag}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Tell your Aussie friend, "Non!!!!!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Uh, speaking seriously, so far not a fan of this
and I doubt the non-headline prospect is going to cure things. Magnuson looks like garbage roster filler to me.
Davis is bad as a starter, but he’s a good bench player.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Davis >>> Jackson. Hes also under control longer and is cheaper. Do not like this offseason.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
If both are going to be nontendered, which is probably the case.
then I like the deal. But since that’s unlikely, I’m very meh about the deal.
However, I dislike the deal because Sweeney and Crisp are both injuries waiting to happen, and if both go down, DeJesus is the next guy to get the call.
But this clearly is not the end of the OF shuffling
I’ll reserve judgement on whether they could have gotten more than these 2 young relievers.
Daniel Farquhar is better than Magnuson, but not a great trade
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure he's better than Magnuson
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
look at the K rate
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
Ya I saw it. He also has a 64% GBO% compared to 49% for Trystan
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
Oops....these are MLE
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
fangraphs review from january
.Tim Collins was also an option here, but he projects to be a left-handed reliever, so his ceiling is a little lower than Farquhar who could develop into an eighth-inning guy, if not a closer. The right-hander comes at hitters from a variety of arm angles and can reach the low-90s from a sidearm slot. Perhaps because he throws so many different pitches – and with so many angles – Farquhar’s control has suffered and he posted a walk rate of 5.91 BB/9 in double-A. That obviously has to improve before he’ll have much success in the Majors. Despite that fact, he posted a 10.05 K/9 rate and allowed just one homer and 31 hits in 45.2 innings at the double-A level.
Second player is reported to be Daniel Farquhar
I know nothing about him, but he’s a tiny pitcher with control problems. Sounds very Scutaro trade 2.0-esque.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Farquar's ceiling is Brett Wagner
Loving this deal…..especially after watching the Tigers pay $17MM to a guy who was out of a job this time last year.
I seriously doubt that.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Are you serious?
Wagner has only once in his 15 year career in the majors posted a K/9 worse than Farquhar did in AA in 2010. For the most part Wagner was able to lower his walk rate below 3 BB/9. Farquhar sat at almost 6 in 2009 and 5 in 2010.
Oh and there’s the whole bit about Farquhar being a righty sitting between 88-94 and Wagner being a lefty with near 100 stuff.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Nov 17, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
He didn't say Billy Wagner, he said Brett Wagner
According to the awesome research engine “Google,” Brett Wagner is a C-list actor. So saying Farquhar might be as good as Brett Wagner at baseball is probably true!
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Ah, then my Emmanuel Lewis comp will make more sense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Farquhar also throws from two separate and distinct arm angles depending on what hand the person he is facing is.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
No wonder he has no idea where the ball is going
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
right his mechanics are all fcked up in a can.
I saw him in the AFL… Ill write something up over the next couple of days.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Looking forward to it
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
BTW this picture looks terrible
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions
So does this one
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
I do not believe that his walk rate will ever be fixed
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 18, 2010 7:26 AM PST up reply actions
C'mon man, this is why people are saying you shouldn't be taken seriously.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 17, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Then don't shout down other people's ideas, dumb or otherwise.
You do that a lot. And when you get called on it, or say something stupid yourself, you brush it off by accusing others of taking things too seriously, like you are right now.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 17, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I post on frangraphs, if you really want to see me talk 100% baseball.
If AN switches to a humorless, dry place like that then I’ll follow suit. Until then, I’ll write here with a slight sense of humor when I feel like it.
I found your Brett Wagner post hilarious
nicely done!
by asyouwish33 on Nov 17, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
is there ever a reason to believe anything that he says?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
Uncomfortable silence......
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
The Scutaro trade could be the downside of this trade
I like the relievers a bit better than Godfrey and the other dude in the Scutaro trade. I could see both Magnuson and Farquhar making the A’s bullpen in the future. Then again, I think it’s quite likely that the trade was simply to free money and Beane just chose the Jays prospects with the best names.
Raj really would have made an excellent 4th or 5th OF and pinch runner. Unfortunately, he’s looking at 2 million in salary. If the A’s can upgrade RF with Seth Smith or Luke Scott, Sweeney can take over the role for cheaper and he may be better. Then there’s Jackson, who I don’t mind taking a shot with as long as he signs cheaper. I’m really surprised the A’s turned down the Rockies offer since I don’t see how they could non-tender and re-sign him.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Yes these names allow us to acquire Smith and Scott
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not suggesting that these prospects could acquire either.....
I’m saying that if the A’s do acquire one of them, Raj would have no real place on the team if Sweeney’s the main backup.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I was agreeing with you that these names are awesome
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
Oh....well can't argue that....
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
and that Smith and Scott
can be traded for because we got rid of a “davis”
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
*exactly* what I was thinking
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
I saw him in the AFL... im going to write something up this weekend.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Looking forward to that!
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 17, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
I was hoping Rajai would be a part of a bigger trade for a star player
But if that just wasn’t in the cards, then I am fine with this deal. He is a bench player, and while 2 minor league relievers isn’t exciting, it’s not like $2M for a bench player makes a lot of sense anyways. And we seemed to be lacking bullpen depth in the minors for what its worth.
As for Jackson… I’ll just hope for the best if we actually do keep him. Maybe they can sign him for less than his arb number.
Pretty much my thoughts
There is speed elsewhere, he wasn’t going to start, and the money. He brings back more than the other spare OFs would have, and if either RP gives us a year or three of solid relief work it’s a good trade.
by supersugarCrisp on Nov 17, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
We've got EE and Rosales
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Now you've made them feel bad
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
I fully endorse this trade for three reasons
First, I never have to watch Rajai bat again, which may have no WAR value, but it definitely makes the thoughts of watching A’s baseball more exciting to me as a fan.
Second, I find it impossible not to be happy that we now have Farquhar, who will forever be known to be as Lord Farquhar. He’s even a little guy, so it works even better.
Third, not having Rajai and having additional bullpen depth may encourage Beane to seriously address RF, and open up the possibility of using Bailey as bait. I was having nightmares of Beane/Geren deciding that Rajai as a possible solution to any inadequacies in our OF caused by the inevitable injuries to the likes of DeJesus, Sweeney, Coco, Jackson, etc.
I totally forgot about Kouz and Beltre
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Makes sense
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Calling these guys "bullpen depth" is like calling a bag of Reese's Pieces "dinner"
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
True, you need ice cream to go with your Reese's Pieces
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
Two quick responses, then I'm out
Have trial tomorrow, so this will be my last post.
First, I think you are being too quick to dismiss these guys as nothing more than roster filler. Both of these guys have talent to go along with their warts, and if the A’s are good at one thing it is finding ways to obtain value out of pitchers with warts. Trust me, I’m not sold on these guys either, but I am not willing to dismiss them given that scouts and prospect watchers see potential in them.
Second, neither your opinion nor mine as to how good these guys are is really relevant to my overall point as to Beane’s future actions. Rajai is gone, so he is no longer a possibility as an outfielder, increasing the odds that a trade for an outfielder occurs. I don’t know what Beane thinks of the guys he just traded for, but I assume he must like them at least a little bit since he just traded for them. Having two additional bullpen guys in the system might make him more willing to include Bailey in a trade. I long ago quit trying to read Beane’s mind, but it would not surprise me if Bailey is considered a possible trade piece and this deal was an attempt to bolster bullpen depth in the system in the event such a trade is made.
by BlameChannel53 on Nov 17, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I can't conceive of how one could ever utter the sentence
“I wouldn’t have done this before, but now I have Trystan Magnuson and Danny Farquhar in my system, so what the hell!”
Magnuson didn’t even make John Sickels’ preliminary Jays prospect list for this year which goes more than 40 deep. Farquhar did but only one of four minorleagueball readers’ prospect lists even mentioned him. He might be a C+ prospect, probably a C. These guys are so under the radar, they’re underground.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Ive eaten a bag of Reeses Pieces for dinner. Yay freshman year of college!
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
Haha
That gets a rec sir.
As a Jays fan I can tell you the fans are pretty excited about this deal. Davis will be a 3rd/4th OF for the Jays likely in a platoon with Fred Lewis. Do you have any information on Davis’ defense?
by King Billy Royal on Nov 17, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Davis' D
As you’d imagine very fast, so closing speed on balls impressive. Just doesn’t often enough get good jumps/reads on balls to really make that into “great defensively.” Not a great arm, but not absolute noodle.
by supersugarCrisp on Nov 17, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
Pretty bad other than speed
He does have a lot of speed, but I’m not wild about his glove overall. He’s not a starting-caliber player against RHP. However, he is a credible bench player because of his pinch-running ability.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Although as you said in April, PT:
“Rajai Davis isn’t really a high-percentage basestealer”. I don’t agree with this opinion, but if he’s not a high-percentage basestealer, then his value as a pinch runner is pretty limited.
and
“[D]ropping him to 9th [in the lineup] is far less than the effect of replacing him with someone who’s actually competent at baseball…”
Given that Rajai isn’t “actually competent at baseball”, is already 30, and will be earning roughly $2 million this year (with another year or two of arbitration and escalating salary to follow), we shouldn’t be surprised at only getting two borderline C-level prospects (lottery tickets). And actually, I’ve read some good scouting reports on both pitchers. Maybe I’ll write up a separate fanpost on this.
by andyinfremont on Nov 18, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think anyone's surprised that those are the "only" guys we received
It’s the wisdom of trading Davis for said C-level prospects knowing that that is what he’d get you in a trade.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 18, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
He seems to score very well on non-SB baserunning
so there is that. He’s much more likely to score from first or second on a base hit, or keep the game alive by advancing on a forceout, in the 9th inning of a close game.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Also:
Even as someone who clearly follows the minors pretty hard, did you know who these two guys were? Are they as bad as their stats make them look like?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
You pretty much nailed it
Daniel Farquhar is the kind of guy a few media types love to hype up but in reality he is pretty bad. He has very little control and his stuff seems to be overrated.
Magnuson improved this year but really doesn’t look like he is going to be anything more then the 5th or 6th reliever on a team. He is tall and has a cool sounding name which means that perhaps he has a career as a professional wrestler. The Jays aren’t going to be losing much sleep over dealing any of these guys.
by King Billy Royal on Nov 17, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
Question
As a blog, do we encourage a new fanpost for every move made, or do we prefer to keep it in comments on one big “Today’s moves” thread?
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 17, 2010 3:25 PM PST reply actions
I prefer a new post for every move. In fact, a front page post per move.
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/
by louismg on Nov 17, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice to see you posting again, Louismg.
How have you been?
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 17, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
I agree as well.
I don't have to answer to you, You aint my bitch.
by BigDaddyChacon on Nov 17, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
I can't lie...
I’m disappointed to see Rajai go..
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
me too...
but the one thing I won’t miss is watching that horrible swing of his….best of luck in Toronto Rajai and thanks for the memories!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
I am kind of torn on this
I still don’t think any contending should have Rajai as a start – but I still rather have him off the bench then Conor Jackson.
I absolutely loved when he got on base and watching the pitchers
attempt to get him out. That was one of my favorite times of games. I was also hoping he’d at LEAST be a 4th or 5th instead of Conor….Jackson…I really really want to get rid of him, but of course he’s still here
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
yes, and i'll miss the funky way he runs.
plus, he always seemed so positive and upbeat and just happy to be playing.
haha yes
the way he ran was kinda hilarious. and his girly voice was amazing. Not to mention he was really really nice when I met him
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks
It was almost this weird crab-walk/speed-skater kind of stride. Loved watching it too
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
New sig line!
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
awwww
thanks, WC!
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
It's funny because
“because he derived his torque from the buttocks” could answer “the funky way he runs” or “positive and upbeat and just happy to be playing”.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Don't like this
Whatever his faults, Raj was a valuable player. 90 OPS+ with plus defense in CF and value on the base paths makes Raj worth more than we were paying him, even if he only is getting 350 ABs. I know you can never have too much pitching, but it seems like this was a money saving move for me.
Yes, Rajai has his uses as a backup, but we can't have $2M backups and sign guys like Beltre
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
i really don't think $2M would be the difference between signing and not signing beltre
considering how often our OFs get injured, there’s no reason we shouldn’t have a multi-million dollar backup.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
I agree in theory
but that was the logic we used when we traded Scutaro. Granted, I don’t think we could have predicted Sctuaro would perform at the level he has, but a 4th OF for us will generally get 350 or 400 ABs. Perhaps this means Beane sees Sweeney as our 4th OF, and another move is in the works.
Beane is supposed to be good at picking up Rajais for cheap. I'd like to see him do his stuff
It could even be Carter or a midseason pickup. A small budget team has to plan for cheap backups
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
Sweeney as a 4th OF...
Yes I think this is Plan A. Sweeney makes a great 4th OF with his skill set. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Coco, DeJesus, Carter OF on opening day (depending on Carter’s performance in winter and spring, sure). I also think that the A’s obvious boner to sign Beltre hints at a certain amount of confidence in Carter making the transition to the bigs in 2011. Also because I really can’t see Carter replacing Barton at 1B or starting his career as a DH.
Yep
Raj is the kind of luxury teams like us can’t afford.
by supersugarCrisp on Nov 17, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
Plus defense in CF?
I know he’s fast, but his reads are terrible and his arm is nothing to write home about. That being said, I will miss him as he was a ton of fun to watch on the basepaths. Hopefully, one of the two new arms steps in to the bullpen in 2011.
Disagree
He makes a lot of mistakes out there, but he also covers a lot of ground. It’s not always pretty to watch, but he’s at the least above average out there and the stats seem to confirm this.
his UZR was -7.9 this year.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
His career is +3 with a 0 Positional Adjustment, meaning he's basically an average CF
and I guess a +7 or +10 in a corner. That’s pretty good
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
One year UZR = always super accurate
If you knew his UZR was -7.9 last year, you probably know what it was the years before that, and you might also know that the other defensive stats didn’t show a rapid decline. You might even know that most of his UZR decline had to do with a very poor arm rating. I don’t think his arm strength randomly fell off a cliff at age 30.
by swatnick on Nov 17, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Okay
I’ve been convinced that he is at least an average centerfielder. And I agree that he is valuable, that’s why we got two relievers in exchange for him (see my comment below).
Two AA relievers is value?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 5:52 PM PST up reply actions
Not when you put it that way
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
Nope, but if you're going to claim that the stats show he is above average, you better make sure of that.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
Also TotalZone thinks he's been below average every year.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
this
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
True, about a -2 per year with a 0 Positional Adjustment
That’s still about a +5 to +8 Corner
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
what does positional adjustment have to do with his talent?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
I thought we were talking about his performance. If so, then if he played
mostly CF — as a positional adjustment of 0 would indicate — then he’d be well above average for a corner and average to below average for CF
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
yes, and? Everybody who would have played that much gets the same positional replacement.
Someone who is better than -2 per year would be even better than +5 to +8 with positional replacement.
What you’re saying makes no sense in the context of what is being talked about, which is that the stats DON’T all agree that Davis is good defensively.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
I think they agree that he's an average to below average CF and good corner OF
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 18, 2010 2:49 AM PST up reply actions
I think he's saying that positional adjustment isn't the same as actually playing there
I could be mistaken, though.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 18, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
Except that he does actually play there
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 19, 2010 5:03 AM PST up reply actions
That's not what I said
It seemed like he was saying that if Rajai Davis put up a physical TotalZone rating of -2 in CF, it isn’t the same as putting up a +5 in LF simply because he put it up in center field, not in left field. If he had actually physically put up a +5 in left field it’d be different. However…
…upon looking at it again it appears that I was wrong, and that he’s saying that +5 in LF is not well above average for a corner OF. I should just butt out because it appears I have no idea what I’m talking about.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 19, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
While I'm sad to see Rajai go
and I was hoping for a better haul for him, I think people are too down on CoJack. He only played 18 games with us, and if both players are healthy, I prefer CoJack over Raj. CoJack has better power, he’s fine against both handed pitchers, and has a more appealing slash line altogether. We still have Sweeney as a defensive replacement in case people are worried about that, and somebody had to go. I feel like with DeJesus and Sweeney, Rajai was unnecessary, and CoJack gives us a better bench option.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 17, 2010 4:08 PM PST reply actions
This.
I understand that Conor Jackson may not be the greatest investment at $3MM. But seriously? The hate he gets around here is completely hyperbolic. He’s a guy with three .350-.360 wOBA seasons. We could do a lot worse.
by danmerqury on Nov 17, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That was a debilitating disease and several injuries ago
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
Which has led to a grand total of 350 crappy ABs over the last two years
Given the three solid years of production before that, I think considering him to be thoroughly worthless is a bit much.
I'm not sure what you're saying. You're saying that he's worth only slightly less than
he was before the illness and injuries? If so, that would seem a tad optimistic
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
He's saying that we should give the guy a chance before writing him off completely
That doesn’t seem ridiculous at all…I would agree. Jackson has a low probability of being above average, but that chance does exist, and though I think we’re all in the same boat in not wanting to pay him $3 million, I wouldn’t mind seeing him on the roster if he costs less.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Oh sure, if he's an NRI then I'm all for him. Above $1M not so much.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
If he can come back, then he's worth it
Theres a good shot that he doesn’t come back from aforementioned reasons, but if he does, we got a pretty good pick up.
and the wOBAs were put up in a NL launchingpad
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, career wRC+ is 105 -- not great from a corner OF
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
Their wOBAr is .357 for his time in Oakland.
That’s encouraging I suppose
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
He really invites hyperbole
He’s so perfectly symbolic of everything that’s gone wrong with this franchise in the last four years.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Nov 17, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Horrible trade!
"Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes."
Jack Handy
Sad to see the unintentional comedy of Rajai go
Anybody ever see the ESPN interview with Breslow and Rajai from last spring? Let’s guy the brightest and dimmest guys on the same team and stick them next to each other answering questions…brilliant
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
I think all of the trade scenarios
that have been thrown around on this site in recent weeks have inflated people’s expectations for what we could get for some of our lesser players. Sorry guys, Rajai Davis was never going to be the centerpiece of a Matt Kemp deal.
The Marlins just traded Cameron Maybin for two relievers. Admittedly, those are MLB relievers, and nobody should be rejoicing about doing better in trades than the Marlins right now. But seriously, we’re talking about Rajai Davis. We got a couple of AA guys whose stats look pretty good to me (though I’ll admit I’m fuzzy on the bust rate for AA relievers). I think we did well enough for a guy who was completely expendable.
Same goes for people slamming the DeJesus trade. We gave up an A-ball pitcher who is about to turn 23, and Vin Mazzaro. Vin Mazzaro! I’m surprised we got anything for the guy, never mind an all-around quality outfielder who is a significant upgrade!
And finally, I really don’t understand the unbridled hate being showered on Conor Jackson. How about everyone wait and see how much he’s actually going to cost. He’s a quality player who has had some pretty amazingly terrible luck with his health the last couple of seasons. If I were going to pick one of Davis or Jackson to keep, I’d keep Jackson. Getting rid of Raj now is selling high. Dumping Jackson would be selling low.
I have absolutely no problem with the A’s holding onto Jackson for 2-3 million and seeing what he can do as a 4th outfielder/injury fill-in.
Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here.
I don't really want to pay a 4th OF $2-$3M
I like our trades so far though
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
the relievers they got were much much much better.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
But If Conor Jackson is a bust...
He’s probably a bust because he can’t play and therefore is worthless to us. Rajai has some level of guaranteed value as a backup OF based on his skill set. If Conor can put up 15-20 HRs and get on base on the other hand, yeah I’d take that. Mostly I’ll miss Raj as a fan… he was fun.
by dockellis on Nov 17, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Best of Luck Rajai.
Toronto worked out on getting Scutaro a great pay day and some how made Fred Lewis look ok at the beginning of 2010. So maybe you’ll be somewhere in between the two.
Favorite Rajai moment was at spring training in 09, getting autographs.
A fan said, “Ra… Ra… um. Mister Davis. Can I get an autograph?”
Rajai vs. Jackson
I see a lot of comments about how Rajai is both cheaper and more productive than Jackson. Even though I am still holding out hope that Jackson will return to ‘06-’08 form I am willing to agree that Rajai is more productive, but that’s exactly the point: Rajai is a more valuable trade chip.
We didn’t just dump him; we got two relievers who have put up some decent numbers and may figure into our 2011 bullpen. By the end of 2010 our bullpen wasn’t looking nearly as strong as I thought it would be at the beginning of the year. This isn’t to say that our 2011 bullpen was looking bad before this trade, but the depth helps. Plus, I would love to see Bailey as the centerpeice for a COF. He’s great, young, and cheap but also injury prone and his value will likely never be higher.
by ArunisArun on Nov 17, 2010 5:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm skeptical that these guys are MLB ready this year
Maybe in September, or if we have a lot of injury issues (that never happens on this team!)
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 17, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
The comparison doesn't make sense to me
Do you think Toronto would have traded those two guys to us for CoJack?
by asfansince1989 on Nov 17, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
Beane wanted to keep CoJack apparently
I think CoJack would’ve fetched these two guys though, considering we traded a much better relief prospect to get CoJack in Sam Demel.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 17, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, we should ask AZ if they would give us Demel back for CoJack
It’s just inconsistent to say CoJack has value because we traded him for Demel, but he sucks for us if Bean wants to keep him even as a 4th or even 5th OF, but he is once again valuable if we could trade him to Toronto
by asfansince1989 on Nov 17, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
Demel is so much better than these clowns, it’s not even funny.
Two trades and somehow the bullpen and outfield are both worse. I swear the worst aspect of Beane’s tenure, by far, is when he gets these obsessions about certain players that he just. won’t. let. go. of.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Knowing exactly what you mean...
I would disagree that the worst aspect of Beane’s tenure so far is letting go of a master teacher and motivator in Ron Washington and refusing to see the admittedly often intangible value of a good manager.
Managers are indolent do-nothing overpaid slobs
I have no complaints whatsoever about the team’s decision to throw less money down that bilge-hole than the rest of MLB. Ron Washington did less than zero for the Rangers this season.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
somewhere, Darren O'Day's phone is ringing
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 17, 2010 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
Ron Washington hurt the Rangers, it's true, but Geren hurt the A's even more.
When finding a manager, you want to find a guy who minimizes his own negative impact.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
I agree and disagree.
He clearly gets enamored with certain players, but sometimes he decides to give up on players that he previously loved in no time flat (Buck, Cargon, Pena come to mind). It’s not a very good mix.
Honestly though, I don’t this particular choice is that big of a deal though. True, Rajai is preferable as a 4th/5th OF because of his better defensive versatility and use as a pinch runner. However, if we had to depend on either of these guys for large parts of the season, we’re f-ed anyway, so it really doesn’t matter.
The relievers did not put up decent numbers.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 17, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
I find it interesting
that Justin Marks puts up a 9.6 K/9 ratio in A ball and he’s still perceived to have a decent chance of being a good pitcher, but Farquhar puts up a 9.27 K/9 ratio in AA and he’s perceived as useless (I know you didn’t say that; just putting all my Farquhar thoughts in one post). I don’t see why there’s such an anti-reliever bias on here. The walk rate is higher, but Marks didn’t exactly have the lowest walk rate either. I’d rather have Marks…my point is that I don’t see why a high K rate is seen as such a plus for a young starter in A ball regardless of other stats, while a high K rate for a young reliever in AA ball isn’t.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
Starting v relieving. Huge difference in terms of the necessary K rate to be successful moving up.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, also Marks is a starter with a 3.7 BB/9
Farquhar is a reliever with a near 6 BB/9 the last 4 years. Huge difference
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 17, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
Minor league relief pitchers are almost universally worthless
If a guy isn’t striking out a batter an inning, with a low walk rate, he’s not even worth thinking about.
I’d take Paul Smyth over either of these guys, without any hesitation really. Paul Smyth was a 35th round draft pick. That says what you need to know about their value.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
why is it Rajai vs Jackson
I look at it as we got DeJesus to replace Rajai, and we still have the option to non-tender Jackson anyway, regardless of DeJesus or Rajai
Not enthralled.
Trading Davis is an OK idea, but he backs up an injury prone outfield, and is versatile enough to do it at any position. DeJesus and Crisp have four 145+ game seasons between them, out of 15 (DeJesus does have one other with 144). There’s a much better than average chance that one of them will miss a significant amount of time next year.
The choice really is between keeping Sweeney or Davis, and I’d rather have Davis as a backup. I hope people aren’t assuming Sweeney can play center after having surgery on one knee, and Chavezery on the other knee (e.g., avoiding surgery when you probably should have had it anyway). We may be left without much in the way of viable centerfield options if Crisp goes down.
As for the return, I would have preferred a single position player to two relief arms. That said, it’s hard to know how much people really wanted Davis. From a pure quality of talent point of view, I’m not disappointed.
Finally, looking at it from the other side, it’s a good idea on Toronto’s part. Rajai on turf could work out in Scutaro-like fashion for them.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Rajai may back up an injury prone OF, but he's not that much better than what you can get
for very little cost. Yes he can be leveraged as a pinch-runner but we’re talking a marginal upgrade on FAT
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Do you have anyone cheaper in mind that the A's can get?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 17, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
No, but even FAT is only going to be a 1 win downgrade max
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
If all we need is a pinch-runner,
I have a Corey Wimberly for sale, cheap!
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
Hm, good idea.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 17, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
especially
after getting maybin. TGJ could be an option.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
Aw. Bye, Raj.
I will miss your fancified stirrups.
by whiteshoes40 on Nov 17, 2010 5:27 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Bummed about losing Rajai
But hopefully stockpiling players will lead to a monster trade for us.
I don't have to answer to you, You aint my bitch.
Rajai Davis & Fred Lewis together again
Who would’ve thought Rajai and Fred would be reunited on a major league roster again.
I'm glad they are
I’m even happier they’ve been reunited on a major league roster for a team that is not in Oakland.
Now there's nothing left to say, so let's go drink beer.
Look at things in different sequence
What if we had done things in following sequence
1) Non-tendered CoJack, yippee!
2) Signed Iwakuma, now we have an extra arm
3) Traded, Mazzaro for DeJesus, trade extra arm for extra and better OF, + Marks
4) traded Rajai for the two relievers, Rajai is now further down the depth chart, might as well trade for something we can stash away in AAA and use later
The way I look at it, CoJack gets non-tendered anyway, we got Iwakuma to replace Mazzaro, got DeJesus to replace Rajai, and got 3 relievers. Bean can then choose to find a 4th/5th OF (we still have Cust) if he’s still worried about OF depth.
This to me is the way that makes sense out of these trades. I don’t believe A’s would revolve their trades and signings just to accomplish the goal of keeping CoJack. That assumption doesn’t make any sense to me.
Maybe he's been impressing them in his Arizona workouts and is in the best shape of his life
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
The logical follow-up
if everything works out, after those, I have:
5) Sign Beltre
6) Flip Kouz for a quality 3rd/4th OF
7) Non-tender then sign Cust, and put him in a DH platoon with E5
We end up with
C: Suzuki
1B, Barton
2B, Ellis
SS: Pennington
3B: Beltre
CF: Crisp
LF/RF: DeJesus/(Kouz trade)/Sweeney
DH Cust+E5
Cust, E5, Carter are OF depth
by asfansince1989 on Nov 17, 2010 6:08 PM PST up reply actions
Looks that way
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
As much as i loved Davis
after the Dejesus trade,Rajai was gonna be the 5th outfielder,coco is starting in Center and Dejesus in left or Carter in left if he is not sent to AAA and Sweeney backing up or in right,there was just no more room and someone had to go.
I hope him the best of luck in Toronto,and hopefully these pitchers are worth it.
And as far for kouz he is also trade bait WHEN we sign Beltre.maybe he gets traded to the marlin,the astros some team that needs a 3rd baseman for another 5th outfielder.We still need a DH so the offseason move arent over
maybe it will look like this next year
1.Crisp CF
2.Dejesus RF
3.Barton 1B
4.Beltre 3B
5.Berkman DH/or whoever we end up signing as long as its not Kust
6.Carter LF
7.Suzuki C
8.Ellis 2B
9.Pennington
and Rosales,Encarnacion,Powell and Sweeney on the bench
Hopefully Cojack gets non-tendered
How do you spell CUST?.....with a K.
I'm not excited by Carter in LF
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
two things i don't agree with
the cust hate, and carter in LF
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
I'm curious why you guys don't like Carter in LF?
Unless its just because you don’t want to start the clock ticking? We need to give our top hitting prospect a chance at some point to hit, even if its not opening day… and the only other places to put him are at Barton or Cust’s positions, replacing one of our two current best hitters. He’s never gonna get a gold glove but everyone else on the diamond is a defensive stud and we sure do need the bat.
DeJesus is the LF. He doesn't play RF.
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
I thought he played all 3 positions?
He did play 70 games in RF last year and only 2 in LF. Although in 2009 he was pretty much full time LF. I’m under the impression part of his value is that defensive versatility.
I think it's more "tinny"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What ARE we going to do with Carter
if not put him in LF? 1B for reals?!? I don’t see how we can give up on him. I really think he’s part of the long term plan. He’s our best hitting prospect.
We'll put him in LF...
…in Sacramento.
The guy has to learn how to actually play LF competently before expecting him to play it at the major league level. People don’t hesitate to say a guy needs another year in AAA if his bat isn’t ready…I don’t see why the same doesn’t apply to his glove.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
yes yes yes
great call.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
i'd like him in LF in AAA
until june, minimum. he had a decent season with the bat in AAA but didn’t set the world on fire, and he needs to better learn jumps and routes in the field.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
ANY DH AS LONG AS IT'S NOT THE SECOND BEST HITTER ON THE TEAM
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
exactly.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
Good Luck Rajai
He was apparently on of the hardest workers on the team, and seemed a good guy all round. Will miss Run Rajai Run – it was about the only exciting thing about our offense last season.
Hope he does well in Toronto; will get a cheer from me when he comes back next season to play us.
He should have worked on his Goddamn patience at the plate.
I’ll miss him too, and I’m mad at him for not doing the one thing that would have made him a viable starting OF.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
I'm sad that Rajai is gone, I really liked him
These relievers are semi-interesting, and one of them has a bad-ass Viking name.
Magnuson’s 2010 was pretty good, 1.2 BB/9 and 1 HR allowed in 73 innings.
His 7.7 K/9 is pretty meh, but it has improved every year as a pro….5.4,6.5,7.7.
If he can ramp up his Ks (even just into the mid-8s) to match his other numbers, he might be Teh Sex.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
His 2010 only looks decent if you completely ignore the rest of his pro career
Jared Lansford had a good year once too, but he’s still useless.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Maybe this is him getting back to the level he is capable of
After the Jays assed him about as a SP
It looks like he is naturally a reliever.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
I like the deal but
I’ll miss ya Raj! Always was a fan, even if he didn’t do everything I wanted him to.
Go A's
http://lesoaklandas.blogspot.com
Even in my slightly irrational Rajai dislike,
I don’t really like this. The relievers might be decent to good, but they’re relievers. I guess I like the not paying Arb part, but I just have a feeling we could have gotten more. This also means we’re relying on Sweekneey and to play the backup outfield position, when it’s not immediately clear he’s that healthy. But it’s minor enough to the point where I don’t hate it. Just not a fan.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
As far as overall talent goes... this trade means little.
BUT where Beane lost me on this one is in major league depth.
Who plays CF when Crisp gets hurt? Sweeney? Well he’ll be hurt before Crisp!
DeJesus can play CF, can't he?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
No.
I mean, he is physically capable of it, but his UZR is nothing but bad in CF and RF. He’s our LF.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but that was years and years ago
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 19, 2010 5:04 AM PST up reply actions
That was weeks ago!

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 19, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
RaJay
I am a fan of Rajay. I still will be a fan of his in Toronto. WHEN HE STARTED PLAYING REGULARLY IN 2009 we started winning , but, more importantly we were fun to watch.
I will miss him and I wish that someday we might keep "my favorite " player for more
than a season or two.
My Favorites still Suzuki, and hopefully he ain’t going anywhere soon..Damn I probably just jinxed it…I meant Carson is my favorite..yeah that’s it
Founder of team Omté Caspeen
Great. Now we'll get Carson back
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 19, 2010 5:05 AM PST up reply actions
My take...
The more I think about this trade, the more I dislike it. Davis is a league average player who’s team/cost controlled for three more years, which has a lot of surplus value. They didn’t get equal talent back in the trade, they aren’t opening a spot for a prospect or a better player, and they didn’t save much money.
Davis is a league average offensive player. He has a career 103 wRC+, which was also his mark in 2010. That’s 3% better than a league average offensive player. His 2010 batting line was pretty much exactly as projected, and he should be able to repeat that going forward. He struggled defensively last year, but I would still project him as a league average defensive CF going forward given his great glovework prior to 2010. Overall, that makes him a league average player.
A league average position player is worth 2 WAR, and each win is worth about $3.5M—which means Rajai projects to be worth about $7M in 2011. He’ll get paid about $2.5M in arbitration, which means his contract has a surplus worth of $4.5M in 2011. Would you buy these two pitching prospects for $4.5M, the way the A’s bought Rosales and Fox last year? I wouldn’t. That’s essentially giving them both first round bonus money.
But Rajai isn’t just under contract for one year—he’s under team/cost control for three years. Given his consistent healthiness, Rajai projects to produce about 6 WAR over the 3 years he’s still under team control, which is worth about $21M. Let’s say he gets $2.5M in arbitration this year, $4.5M in 2012, and $7M in 2013. That would mean Rajai projects to be worth $21M and cost $14M over the next three years, giving him $7M of surplus value. That’s far more than I would pay for these relief prospects.
The A’s not only lose the trade on value, it also makes them worse on the field. Rajai’s playing time will go to Jackson, who is inferior with both the bat and glove. Worse, we know that Crisp/Sweeney/Jackson will miss time with injury, meaning someone from AAA will get a lot of playing time.
It’s always nice to have bullpen depth, but neither of the prospects projects to be worth pitching in high leverage situations. One has a very mediocre K rate for AA, while the other has a poor walk rate.
It’s not an awful trade, because Davis isn’t good enough to make them really regret it. But it’s a step back after the two steps forward they took with the DeJesus and (hopefully) Iwakuma acquisitions.
by Danny on Nov 18, 2010 1:36 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
all of this
I’m going to be crossing all my extremities that Coco stays healthy for 140+ games.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 18, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
Even if everyone's healthy, they'll still miss Rajai
His baserunning ability gives him a lot of value off the bench, and his arm/range allow him to play all three OF positions. That’s a very nice 4th OF.
I'm hoping they take the savings from Rajai and trading Sweeney and Jackson and get a real RF
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 19, 2010 5:06 AM PST up reply actions
That's the key, IMO
I agree with Danny that this trade in particular is a net loss for the A’s. But it’ll be an acceptable loss if the savings and roster spot are used wisely. I’m afraid of Jackson taking both when he should be non-tendered.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
What real RF are they going to get with $6M?
And are you OK with 3 of our 5 OFers being AAA scrubs once Crisp and Buck inevitably get hurt?
Yes, because if that happens we're screwed. If it's Rajai and a AAA scrub we're screwed too.
BTW one of those AAA scrubs is Carter in either case. BTW it could be as high as $8M not $6M. $3 million for Conor, $2 million for Sweeney and $2 million for Rajai. Also it doesn’t have to be budget neutral. If they save $6M-$8M on these 3 gues a and spend $10M on a real OF, I’m OK with that.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 20, 2010 6:45 AM PST up reply actions
+1
The more I think about it, the worse this is -→ Sweeney, DeJesus, Jackson, Coco are all injury prone, and Carter is still unknown.
Rajai can play any position – he’s cheap, and he basically performs as advertised. If we had got some stud pitcher or hitter, it might be good, but two ok relievers.
Overall – not happy
I think this overstates Davis's value to some degree, but I also think his salaries won't be that high
The surplus value calculation is similar.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
It's confirmed
A lot of people on this website don’t think like the rest of the A’s fans that don’t spend time on this site. Believe it or not, you are not right… you are wrong… and you are the minority… everyone outside this bubble hates this move…. this dumb, ignorant move… read the comments in this article… these are your fan base as well… If you are representing the A’s fans on SBNation, this should be a shocking and disappointing story…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/17/SPD31GDORI.DTL
Optimistic...
Are you going to even attempt to justify your silly position?
We represent no one but ourselves. And who we are, in general, is a group of people who, to varying degrees, understand and value SCIENCE and MATHEMATICS.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 20, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
You keep making the assumption that in general, people who
value observation don’t understand or value science and mathematics. It’s a very ignorant assumption.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The two are very highly correlated
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I think those who refuse to value either as "be all and end all"
end up being the best analysts overall. One of the ways I weed out for credibility, when I read and follow users, is to look for “black and white” thinking in either, or any, direction. Black and white thinking of any kind is a good way to get stuck in your thinking. (And by “your” I just mean “one’s.”)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You have turned Francis Bacon upside-down in his grave.
Observation is the very essence of science.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Mmmmm...bacon...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No I'm not. I value observation, but it has its place,
and that place is subordinate to the place of proven mathematics.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 20, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
Nico is right
Let’s be clear first, there’s very little “proven mathematics” in baseball statistics. Above all the one question, I asked a bunch of people in these threads a few months, is how many baseball stats are predictive and the answer is very few (I haven’t studied it so I’ll take their words), so in other words pontificating about WAR may be good intellectual masturbation, but it’s bugger all use in deciding what to do next.
FWIW: I have a bachelors/masters in Maths from Cambridge (albeit 20 years ago). My Newton trumps your bacon.
FWIW = zero
Your argument can stand or fall on its own merits. Your degree from Cambridge doesn’t make you right or wrong.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
They don't need to be predictive, at least not all the time.
When you’ve got four years of a guy doing X, and 12 years of a different guy doing Y, and Y is clearly better than X, and in general players at the age of the Y guy don’t start declining for a few more years, you go with the guy who does Y.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 22, 2010 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
LOL.
A lot of people on this website don’t think like the rest of the A’s fans that don’t spend time on this site.
I know. And I’m really grateful for that. Have you seen some of the comments on, oh I don’t know, SF Gate?
I actually read them
I think for better or worse there’s a bit of intellectual snobbery on these boards. Most of the comments were fine and expressing sadness that one of the players who was about the only exciting thing on our offense was no longer going to be with us… that’s a legitimate sentiment.
Of course we’ll ignore the “He relied on walks to get on base to steal” comment…if only he did
Seriously?
Wish the Giants had kept him. He could have been a catalyst.
ya the fans started to like him so Billy Beane knew it was time to deal him for prospects/middle relievers.
We needed the excitement that he brought to the team.
Davis was due for arbitration and a big payday for his great season last year
anyone who hits over .280 has had a pretty damn good season.
What is it about Beane and players who have real spirit and show how much fun they have playing the game? Why did he let Miggy, Marco, Nick, Milton, CarGon, Ron, and Rajai go? Beane feels threatened by anyone with a little personality. He much prefers personnel who are colorless, such as Ellis, Chavez, and Geren. In Beane we trust to trade away excitement. I know, I know, if you can’t count it, it doesn’t exist. “Spirit” doesn’t cut it in Beane’s quantificational mindset. Good luck with your dream-team of statistically satisfying yes-men.
Swisher brought out the best in Bradley, who had a 1.44 OPS in the 2006 LCS
The A’s need instant pen help, not future, and not at the cost of the long overdue speed they had in Davis. Quit playing Santa to the rest of the league Billy.
The trades Bean has made in the last two weeks mystify me…. The A’s need pop in their bats. Davis has improved as a hitter at the plate and more impressively in the outfield as a fielder… They trade him away… The one area in pitching they were somewhat weak in was left handed starting pitching.. Bean trades away Mazzaro… but they get David DeJesus.. That might add some pop, but how good a fielder is DeJesus?
Yes “Billy Ball” has been an overwhelming success. He did get a movie deal though. So far “Sabean Ball” has prevailed. This deal for relief pitchers is copying Sabean just like the rest of the league.
Get out the duct tape, and sign up the next outfielder. 47 outfielders in 4 years. That ‘Billy Ball’ is working wonders.
Raj often walked or singled and took another base or two.
They just traded for an upgraded version of sweeney in dejesus, not really sure why billy and co. are so enamored with sweeney, he doesn’t ‘have it’.
Without Rajai, we have another faceless team
Bonehead move. Nothing like getting rid of the most exciting player on the team for nothing.
Man, its hard to root for this brand of “BillyBall”. Every quailty athlete the Athletics get, Billy trades them away for some slow footed, chronically injured, AAA scrub who has a “good eye” and a high OBP. Dye, Howard, Miggy, Swish…god the list goes on. Next season the A’s will sellout if you consider all the seagulls who show up. Oh wait, they’ll be at ATT park, where there are folks leaving scraps of food. Meanwhile, Oakland gets scraps on the field that wear green hose and white shoes. No pop and now no speed! Just plane dull. But thats BillyBall ’11. See ya in San Jose….uh come to think of…nah!
I’m so sick of the A’s they always trade the good ones. Rajai was the only exciting thing about the A’s last year.
He relied on walks to get on base to steal.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 22, 2010 9:10 AM PST up reply actions

by 


























