Adrian Beltre and the A's: Why He Makes a Lot of Sense
by Tyler Bleszinski on Nov 16, 2010 12:54 PM PST
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PrintI know that free agent third baseman Adrian Beltre would cost the A's a lot of money and they already have a pretty good defensive third baseman in Kevin Kouzmanoff, but Billy Beane has talked a lot about getting players who fit this current team perfectly.
The thing is, the A's are starving for offense in any way, shape or form. And while Beltre isn't exactly a "thumper" per se, he's a HUGE upgrade over anything the A's have and he's also possibly the best third baseman defensively in baseball.
I know Beane isn't thrilled about getting guys who can be a huge liability defensively, especially having witnessed Jack Cust in the outfield over the last couple of seasons. So Beltre would be an ideal solution to this issue because he adds a very good, middle of the order stick while maintaining and probably even upgrading the infield defense. Can you imagine an infield of Barton, Ellis, Pennington and Beltre? Trevor Cahill might never allow another run. OK so I'm exaggerating, but wow, that's quite the baseball purists dream watching that infield pick it.
Granted, Beltre will be 32 right around the start of next season, but he would be a great addition that would continue Beane's trend towards building an amazing defensive team while serving as that significant upgrade. And if the A's are serious about making that run at a World Series in 2011, you can then also spend some money to bring in Adam Dunn as the true thumper in the lineup. I know, I'm dreaming pie in the sky here, but if you bring in Dunn to DH and Beltre playing third base then I think the team is poised to make a true run in 2011. Course it's easier said than, um, Dunn. I don't think this would be easy and it's certainly not my money and it all depends on what the market is for both players. I've stated before that while I would love a couple of the big name players, I just don't see it happening. Maybe players will have seen how the young pitchers performed in 2010 and be more likely to believe that the A's can take that monumental jump in 2011, but who knows whether that's reality at this juncture except maybe Beane and Wolff.
Oh and I wouldn't expect the A's offense to suddenly be frightening with Beltre and Dunn. I just think they would suddenly have just enough offense to really support the young pitching while even improving the defense.
I know I'm dreaming, but isn't that what the offseason is all about?
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I'll just say that's south of what we're expecting at Over The Monster.
But you have the West Coast advantage, so…
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks for the input!
What’s the general consensus over there?
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
That he's going to get paid, and overpaid.
A caveat: We do tend to treat Boras as some sort of demon with the ability to turn GMs into babbling, wallet-opening idiots. He’s good, but probably not as good as we make him out to be.
Generally, I’d say most of us think he’s going to get four years. There’s some who think 4/52 or so would get it done, but I really expect 4/60. Between that and the comments about family, it’s getting to the point that many are either saying they shouldn’t pay him for fear of ending up with another Mike Lowell contract, or are resigned to his departure regardless and are penciling in Jed Lowrie or some acquisition for the position.
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
What about 5/70?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
Now way
A 5 year commitment to a 32 year old 3rd baseman is pure stupidity……..3 years guaranteed with a 4th year option.
62 mill max!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
true - but he had an injury history long before he turned 32
Guys like Cal Ripken, A-Rod, Scott Rolen, etc. come to mind. Maybe I am overlooking a lot of bad ones with terrible injury history.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 16, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
Those are exceptions to the rule.....
the knees tend to go first if not the back….
Chavvy, had he not played hurt all those years, would probably still be playing 3rd base for the A’s.
i just think a 5 year deal for Beltre is essentially a bad idea.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
can you say overpaid aging DH?
Come on, if that doesn’t get you excited about years 4 and 5 of the contract, what will?
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 16, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt Beane looks at it that way, Billy.....
and neither do I. But, that’s just my opinion.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Well, if the Padres don't move Headley this year, they'll probably move him next year.
We could sign Beltre to a big bloated deal, and then as soon as we can put our hands on a better alternative like Headley, we ship his silly contract off to some team that thinks it’s a good idea.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
I very much imagine that would get it done.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
INK IT BILLY
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
Don't think so
He’ll get at least one 4 year offer.
We may even have to go to 5 to get a shot at him…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
If 4/60 would get it done, then 5/60 seems like you're just ripping an extra year off of him.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
Shhhh
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
That's exactly what I was thinking
with a team option for a 4th year at about 17-18 mill per year…..
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
How many dollars/years will Beltre require?
He’s a good fit, but Jayson Werth is an even better fit considering our RF options. If the salary commitment is even close, I’d choose Werth.
by Glorious Mundy on Nov 16, 2010 12:59 PM PST reply actions
My guess is Beltre would require 3/45 or 4/52
Possibly slightly more considering that would be the offer on the table from the Angels.
Do you guys think Beltre would want to move to LA over the Bay Area (baseball aside, to raise a family)?
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
That is my fear
This is going to turn out to be “Rafael Furcal 2”, then we’ll get to hear that no one wants to play baseball in Oakland. An Overpay is going to be necessary. Maybe Billy can promise to walk Beltre’s dogs when he’s out of town.
by Colorado Fan on Nov 16, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
I agree,
but would you rather do 5/70 for Beltre or 7/105 for Werth? Pretty sure Werth is going to be massively overpaid and his contract will probably be very long.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 16, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
7 years, no way
But if he’d agree to something shorter (4 to 5 years) it would make sense to throw a big yearly number at him. You’re probably right, though, that someone will be dumb enough to give him 7 years.
by Glorious Mundy on Nov 16, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Nah, give him 7 years and trade him when something just as good and cheaper comes along, preferably in the first two or three years of the contract.
Same thing you do with Beltre’s 5/70.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Players signed to those contracts have little trade value.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
And you have to eat a chunk of their salary too.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
The key factor is keeping Beltre away from the Angels while improving our team.
I would think Werth is not a target, when if Beltre is acquired, Kouzmanoff will be moved in a trade, most likely packaged with others for a RF.
There are a couple targets I'd like to at least flesh out...and obviously would like to see here:
JD Drew: If Boston go after Werth for RF, we could package Kouz+whoever for Drew, as Boston needs a good defensive 3B.
Jose Bautista: Is a FA after this year and doesnt really play much defense, but is a late blooming masher. Kouzmanoff+RajSweeney+1 for him might get it done.
Shin Soo-Choo: Indians arent going anywhere soon and would be looking for young potential stars. Chris Carter is a nice fit.
Justin Upton: I’d honestly give them Carter and Cahill for him in a nanosecond. Pitchers are easier to come by to Billy than RF.
Magglio Ordonez: Cheap guy we can just buy. Not a long term option, but a great hitter. We could sign a DH for this year and Maggs for 2, play Maggs in RF in 2011, and DH in 2012.
Any of those guys and I’m happy.
What would the salary situation be like re: Drew?
I gotta say, I don’t see the Sox being at all interested in Kouzmanoff—the fanbase just won’t accept his bat at the position. But if the Sox are going after Werth/Crawford, they might be interested in some sort of partial salary dump involving prospects.
Haven’t thought about it much.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
Sox interested in bullpen arms?
Everyone seems to say they need them badly.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
We are, and do.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
Guess what we have a lot of!
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
It's possible then.
We’re big Drew fans at OTM, but we know he’s only around one more year.
Of course, Theo is very reluctant to put much faith in the past results of pen arms, so who knows.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Really? All the Sox fans I know call him Nancy.
Never understood why; he doesn’t miss an inordinate amount of time with injuries, but you know how people from Boston are.
Theo may not like trading for bullpen arms—because he’s smart—but he’s also only got one year left of Drew. The way I see it, for a couple of reliable bullpen pitchers, both sides are getting rid of something they don’t need for something that might turn out to be good in a spot they sort of need help in.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, OTM is enlightened for the most part when it comes to JD.
We even have a shirt.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Can I see?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
Did the fanbase complain about Lowell's bat?
Because Kouz could put those kind of numbers (aside from 2007).
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Can he match 2008?
Because he hasn’t shown that ability yet.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
I think he has
His offensive WAR is basically the same from his San Diego years as Lowell’s for the past couple years.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
To clarify, no he can't match 08
but I’m wondering whether BoSox fans were really pissed about Lowell’s hitting in 07 or 09. Because I think Kouz could match that level of production.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
We loved his bat in '07, and '09 was perfectly acceptable.
But Kouzmanoff was below replacement level offensively in San Diego. Lowell was above and on noticeably less playing time. Right now, I think the Sox would rather go with a Lowrie-Scutaro left side than a Kouzmanoff-Lowrie/Scutaro one.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
It hurts so much that you guys have Scutaro.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
People don't give him credit for playing through the injury this year.
They say “Yeah, no surprises, back to sucking” but that’s not really how it happened.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Much as I'd like Choo, I think the Indians will overcharge for him to the point of not moving him.
You don’t trade your Ichiro Suzuki.
I don’t like the idea of a one-year rental of an overvalued Bautista coming off a fluky HR year.
If the Sox want to dump JD on us for bullpen arms and a not-awesome prospect, I’d think about it.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
RE: Drew/Bautista
The Sox don’t really need Kouz as they can just shift Youk across the diamond. Also, there is no chance take that offer for Bautista.
by King Billy Royal on Nov 16, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
Youk at third isn't ideal, really. But yeah, it's been talked about a lot.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
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by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
Kouz at third isn't ideal for Boston either...lol
I am guessing they just move Youk to third since there is a glut of 1B types on the FA market.
by King Billy Royal on Nov 16, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
Konerko+Fenway=Happy Bostonians
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
Nice avatar
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Carter and Cahill for Upton?
Horrible, horrible idea.
Cahill is a top-flight #2 and Carter has the potential to lead the league in HR. It’s possible that 2010 was a sophomore slump year for Upton, and that Cahill just had his career year … but you’re trading away the future of the A’s for a guy who could wind up as the next Jeremy Hermida. Awful, awful, awful.
And yet I'd do it in a millisecond
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
I would too
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
+1
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
And when Upton bats .230/.310/.355 in an A's uniform
You’ll all turn on Billy Beane in an instant.
Now why would he do that....
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 11:26 PM PST up reply actions
This is completely and totally unfair
To act like PT is “turning” on Beane when he’s been consistent in criticism of certain moves is a cheap shot.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:46 AM PST up reply actions
Don't be silly.
I turned on Beane a long time ago.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
LOL!!!!!
I don't have to answer to you, You aint my bitch.
by BigDaddyChacon on Nov 17, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
Or you could be trading a guy who winds up as the next Carl Pavano
for the future of the As.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
This is more likely.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
Carl's got a Ring!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
PROVEN WINNER
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
lol oh c'mon
100 of 100 teams would do that deal (from the A’s perspective)
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
Me no likey the Upton trade.
Carter and Cahill is too much imo.
Adam Dunn has said more than once that he doesn't want to DH.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
by mikev on Nov 16, 2010 1:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Can people please stop saying that he would agree to DH?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
And even if you did throw so much money at him that he couldn't say no
I really don’t want a career NL player who isn’t comfortable DHing and who has never done it for any extended period.
Oh, also, park-adjusted wOBA has Cust and Dunn as virtual equals.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
this
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
I just don't want him in Oakland.
Doesn’t smell right.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, it would not blend in well
With the smell of the moat under the BART bridge or the post-raider game port-a-johns.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 16, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Dunn wants like 5x Cust money
and might not be that big an upgrade over Cust. Let the Chisox have him.
Of course, if the A's could somehow force Kenny Williams to pay more in years or dollars, by all means, bid away
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions
Yep
Sounds very Pat Burrellesque.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
She would agree to DH.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
[Insert repetitive "please stop mentioning Dunn, he makes no sense" post here]
Not, of course, directed at mikev
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Plus he's already been traded to Florida
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Not that Dunn, the other Dunn!
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
I like this dream
Although realistically I would pass on Dunn in favor of a DH who doesn’t demand multiple years. I would put my money into one of Berkman/Thome/Cust/Matsui who may not be overwhelming but could likely provide above average production from DH for only $3-6m for one year.
If Beltre would take 5/65 I would offer it. It’s a risk sure, but he doesn’t have an extensive injury history, nor does he appear to be slowing down yet. And as others have mentioned many times keeping him away from the Angels would be great. Even in my dreams I am still a little concerned by the fact that Beltre turned us down last year, even if it is for a totally different reason. Beltre really fits very well with this team.
I would put my money into one of Cust/Cust/Cust/Cust who may not be overwhelming but actually on second thought is a very good hitter for no more than 3M per year and probably less
is I think what you meant to say.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Cust should be the President.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
Concern..
If you look at his career stats he’s pretty much a .260-.275 hitter unless its a contract year. His last year in LA and last year in Boston are spikes. I think his last year in Seattle he has some injuries, but I could be wrong. Anyways, I’d love to have him but I’d be hesitant to give him more than 3 years.
From 2004-2010, he's had two below average years
And only one of those years was worse than what Kouzmanoff did last year, and Beltre missed significant time because of injuries.
Beltre is constantly underrated, not just because he gets a ton of value from defense, but because his 2004 season was so unbelievably good that people think the rest of his above average seasons are disappointing. I would LOVE for the A’s to get the Beltre who was in Seattle from 2006-2008.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
I see what you are saying....
But I think we should keep in mind that we will get the Beltre that hits .270 with 25 homers. Hey, I’d die for a guy to hit 25 homers so I’m not complaining. I just think we shouldnt get carried away expecting some guy to come in hitting .300+.
I don't think anybody would expect that. At least I hope not.
From 2006-2008, Beltre was .272/.324/.473 with an OPS+ of 108. And, of course, the defense.
Maybe they’ll have to slightly overpay for that, but I think that’s worth almost $15 million a year.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
Tell me more about this stat you call Batting Average!
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
Beltre's hitting has been really bizarre over his career
He’s mixed two HOF-level seasons as a 3B (2004 and 2010, both contract walk-years) with some good, solid hitting years, some mediocrity, and some real crap (like 2009 – also a contract walk-year). He’s just as likely to put up Kouz-level numbers as he is to hit really well. If I were the A’s, I’d look very carefully at every detail of his hitting stats from his good and bad years, and at video of him, and see what’s been going on. Has he been injured and playing hurt? Getting into bad hitting habits in his bad years?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
He was hit on the wrist and in the nuts in 2009.
That’s as good a reason to give him a mulligan for his 2009 than any.
When I get hit in the nuts, I really don't do my best work.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
So you're not Iron Balls McGinnity?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
Career leader in games won while getting two nutshots in the same day!
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think that record will be broken anytime soon
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Nope. I can see why you'd be confused, though, as my real name, Captain Hexagon, does sound an awful lot like that.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
Why are you only a captain?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
It's just as far as I've risen in the ranks of the Interdimensional Time Invaders.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
Well you're still young
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Right, I'm not down on myself like Rebuilding Season is.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
You'd be down on yourself too if you were always Rebuilding
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
there was a sports science thing...
some guy got hit in the nuts so much that he doesn’t feel it any more because of microfractures or something.
I remember that. It was crazy!
Wasn’t it the same idea behind Thai kick boxers strengthening their shins by repeatedly kicking trees? But for nuts!
Something about developing tiny microfractures which are rebuilt way stronger and less sensitive.
A lot of it can be explained.
2009 was an injury year.
His time with the Mariners he had trouble hitting in Safeco. On the road, he was an .850 OPS guy. Obviously, many of the same concerns would be present in Oakland.
As for this year, a big part of it was his BABIP. Interestingly, he still had the .850 or so numbers in Fenway, while his road numbers boomed. I wonder if he’s just…eccentric in that manner?
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
On balance, we'll still win the contract.
Let’s say he gives us one crappy year, one insane year, and two the-usual-Beltre years, and we win the hell out of that contract.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
I'd expect four usual Beltre years offensively
With four diminishing defensive years.
He’ll probably never hit average in that category, but it’ll be headed towards that eventually.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
I'll take that too,
especially because I think somewhere in Year 2, a just-as-good but younger third baseman becomes available, and we can ship Beltre off to an idiot GM somewhere (maybe San Francisco.)
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
I love how last season when I suggested paying him 4/32 people thought it was a huge overpayment but now they want to give him 5/60
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 1:13 PM PST reply actions
He just put up a 7 WAR season
That tends to affect a player’s perceived value.
by Glorious Mundy on Nov 16, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't love 4 years then, definitely don't like 5 years now.
But now I might consider 4, which admittedly is a shift in how I felt a year ago. The way I see it, if they can sign him for 4 years and get 3 good ones out of him, that might be worth it.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
32M ain't gonna get it done though
Several tweets today said 12 teams were interested. It’s going to be north of 40, possibly north of 46. If we’re gonna pay him that much, I want 4 years, not 5.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
5/70
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
12 teams might be "interested" but it doesn't mean many of those teams are willing to go that high.
In fact, the A’s have two consolation prizes on their roster right now. I could see a number of those teams going “screw it, let’s just see what the A’s want for Kouzmanoff.”
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Not immediately, but I don't think all 12 "interested" teams are so interested they're willing to offer 4-5 years or $60 million
And the A’s might (just speculating) be able to get a more budget-conscious team to drop their pursuit by dangling a poor man’s Beltre.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Budget-conscious teams aren't the ones we have to beat here.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
That's true, but what I'm really saying is it's not "12 teams"
It’s, like, 4 teams (Red Sox, Angels, A’s…and I’m sure one more serious suitor). Everyone else is just kicking the tires and won’t be serious bidders.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
Beltre wouldn’t exactly be blocking anyone in the Minors. Parker still has a ways to go, I think.
Also he might not ever make it out of AAA
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
Just for you, WC :)
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
If he's got value, let's trade him quickly
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
I'd say Parker doesn't hit the bigs until 2012 September callups at the absolute earliest.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
You know, hate to be a skeptic
But you know the minute he signs with the A’s, he’s going to need some kind of major surgery. His head might fall off or something.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Nov 16, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
but he might not feel it
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
Stich Chavy's head on the body
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
Well....he might not need surgery then
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Nov 16, 2010 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
I wasn't here, but maybe it's because we weren't a 3B and a RF away from being contenders?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
we had nothing in the pipeline and should have contended sometime in the next 4 years
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
Really stoked to see Blez more active on the site
When I first began reading AN I always enjoyed Blez’s posts and great contribution of content. I really Hope the site continues to see you with this regularity!
by hishnik on Nov 16, 2010 1:14 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Thanks, man
I’ll try to contribute when I have a chance.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Nov 16, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yep!
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Nov 16, 2010 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
I'll sign him on one condition
He agrees to wear a cup.
At all times.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
Even I wouldn't agree to that
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'd do it for half the league minimum!
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
haha +1
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Especially when going through security at the airport
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
"You touch my junk and I'll do something which I can't legally do because you're only carrying out your job duties which are required by law."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
The jewels need a good airing
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
What makes this year different?
didn’t he turn down more money from Beane to sign with Boston last year?
We need like a form response to issue in this situation:
Dear Constituent:
Thank you so much for your interest in the Oakland Athletics, the Athletics Nation community and blog, and the Adrian Beltre Situation. As you can imagine, we get quite a few letters, phone calls, emails, Fanposts, and comments about why Adrian Beltre would sign with the A’s when he turned them down last year for less money in Boston.
As you know, Beltre only signed a one-year deal with Boston. The Red Sox play in a hitter’s park and are often seen as a good place for a free agent hitter to “rebuild value” after an off-year, such as Beltre’s injury-plagued 2009 campaign.
However, Beltre has been making it abundantly clear for quite some time now that he would like to return to the West Coast, specifically the American League West. You will, of course, remember that the city of Oakland, home of the Athletics, is on the West Coast. You will also recall that the Athletics are members of the American League West. Additionally, Beltre is unlikely to want to return to Seattle due to his troubles hitting in their ballpark and their abject inability to put a winning product on the field. That pretty much just leaves the options of the Angels or the A’s. Thank you so much for your concern on this pressing issue, and have a blessed day.
Sincerely,
Everyone
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 9 recs
I expected exactly this response from the oh-so-welcoming AN community
but seriously he will not be playing here:
TB: Well, one of the things that Billy has always said to me is that, and you mentioned it earlier, is that people run into issues when it comes to seeing the facility and not wanting to be a part of the facility, and he mentioned specific names to me over the past couple of years that you guys actually offered more money. Furcal.
LW: Yes and Beltre.
Aren't you guys moving?
Or is that not anytime soon?
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
It's pretty soon, I would think.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
Indefinite.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Wait, you know Beane personally?
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
What are you mad about? I said "have a blessed day"!
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
which is exactly why I have said that other options are more likely. Beltre is going to wind up with the Angels is my guess.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Nov 16, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
you should also include that he also turned down the same deal with Philly that the A's offered. But well done
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
Well said.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
nice
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
As others have commented before
The A’s look poised to be a contender in 2011 and he signed a one-year deal to rebuild his value. I still think it’s more likely he winds up in Anaheim given Arte’s big pockets.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Nov 16, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
If HE wasn't confident he could put up good numbers in Oakland
then why should Oakland find him tempting at all?
Because he's undervaluing himself. It's the new market inefficiency -- players with poor self-esteem
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Players with poor self-esteem?
I’ve known a few guys who fit that bill.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Sign me up!
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
For what?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Never mind, I probably wouldn't cut it anyway.
Not good enough.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
BAM
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
Because NOBODY puts up numbers as good as they're capable of in Oakland.
Nobody except triples hitters, and triples are so rare anyway as to not be worth chasing.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Hey StStevenShavingTheSheepInTheMeadowOnThursday
Sorry, just always giggle at your name.
Can you explain to me your logic there? If triples hitters are so rare that would be the reason we would not pursue them? Not sure I follow you there.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
i think he means
triples, as an event, are very rare.
by mk on Nov 16, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Yes if your park increases triples by 25%, your best tripler would get 12 instead of 9
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
Ok, I get it now
but I mostly just wanted to fcuk with his name
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
And you did a swell job
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
I have many many more variations of it
ready for the new season
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
You misspelled "St. Stephen."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
No, he'd get 11.5 instead of 9.
Mathematically speaking. And yes, that means on the 12th one, he gets thrown out between first and second.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
Good god, exactly
Not to mention his by far best years have been in contract years and he’s getting old.
I’m quite surprised so many experienced A’s fans want to shill out this kind of dough for Beltre. He has all the warning signs. You’re paying for past performance at his age and he has shown he really turns it on for contract years.
No way to Beltre.
by supersugarCrisp on Nov 16, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
To me, it's not a question of whether he thought he could put up good numbers in Oakland
I believe he could (although I certainly won’t be holding my breath for a repeat of 2010). He wasn’t confident that he could put up as good of numbers in Oakland. He wanted to get paid as much as possible for his last big contract.
Not trying to take away from this great piece by Blez....but
I do not like that the Red Sox and Yankees are talking to the D’Backs about Upton.
Obviously, it seems that they’re just checking in, but let’s jump on that and THEN sign Beltre…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
Red Sox are already said to have "no legs" per Rob Bradford.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
What about the Jays?
They have excess pitching and could move Marcum/Prospects for him.
by King Billy Royal on Nov 16, 2010 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
It's possible, but we haven't heard anything about it yet that I know of.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
I could see them doing it
That organization is looking really good, and they are one of the few that could offer quite a bit and yet it wouldn’t cripple them at all…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know, why does an AL East team not called the Red Sox or the Yankees
and not stocked with a jillion years’ worth of awful seasons’ draft hauls even bother playing the season out?
That division sucks for baseball.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
The Jays are actually scaring me, honestly.
I wouldn’t write them out from having a good 5+ years of battling at the top at all.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Top to bottom they’re pretty stocked.
That teams would win the division if they played in any other one last year…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
The Rays are miffed that you forgot to mention them
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
and not stocked with a jillion years’ worth of awful seasons’ draft hauls
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
They're still miffed
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
There's a Bill Buckner joke in there somewhere, and I just can't quite find it.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
Ouch
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
It snuck under your glove?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Then they probably don't need those sox, regardless of color.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
Brett Anderson + Green + Taylor for Upton? not enough?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
Feels like too much.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
I'd do that, but it's the absolute maximum I'd give up
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
but is that something that AZ does?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
Strikouts!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Is it sad that I consider Taylor a throw in?
Maybe Gio + Green + Weeks?
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
I'd completely forgotten about him.
When I think of A’s prospects it’s Green, Carter, Choice then Ynoa, Fautino then Krol, Stassi. Taylor never comes to mind at all.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
And the Jays still got the better of that deal!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know about that. Im not high on Goose at all.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
High on Goose is funny
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
I'd love it, but I'd insist on Anderson if I were they
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Well yes, but Justin Upton doesn't become available every day
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
D'Backs apparently said they want "everything"
So, byebye Anderson, Gio, and Barton.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2010 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Heh
Well then, PASS
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
You're assuming Kevin Towers properly values baseball players
The man has signed Geoff Blum four different times as a major league GM
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 16, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah. WTF?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
What would the Braves want for Uggla?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Somebody similar to Alex Gonzalez.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
So....Juan Uribe?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
I saw this on mlbtraderumors....
Why wouldnt beane offer wuertz and sweeney? or wuretz, rosales (if they want a utility guy) and a lower prospect?
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Omar Infante had a great year as a full time player
Rosales had a good, partially injured year as a part time player. Infante and Dunn are better than Sweeney and Rosales.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
Is infante and Dunn better then Wuertz/Blevins and Sweeney/Rosales?
Even Ellis and cramer would be a better offer for Uggla
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Yes.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
PROVEN ALL STAR
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
It really wasn't as great as it looks
Good, but nothing special…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
He might have but none of those guys were All-Stars this year
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
Bailey was.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Ignore, post flow fail.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
He's a Two Time All Star. That's too much.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Insane
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Is Mike Dunn really awesome or something?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
According to his mother.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
> 12 K/9 last season
But also > 8 BB/9.
Really nothing super special, but the ERA was pretty shiny…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, 8? Really?!
WOW.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
He asked about Mike Dunn, not Henry Rodriguez.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
H-Rod's was actually almost half that, albeit in a SSS
His FIP was also better than Dunn’s (again SSS)
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
fip you
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
Dunn is a lefty though. That is a pretty interesting lefty
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:13 AM PST up reply actions
Not when he's no better against lefties than righties
A guy like that is a huge liability no matter who he faces, long as he’s walking guys at such a terrible rate…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
STRICKOUTS
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
Always look on the bright side of life...(whistles)
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
Ew
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
"-age" seems like just not a great suffix for the rape.
Makes it seem like something that would appear in some empty corporate suit’s presentation to the board about third-quarter losses.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
Do not call baseball transactions rape. It devalues the word and comparing a fucking game to rape is not ok.
Im flagging this.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
An argument could be made that the modern-day broadening of the term is actually more faithful to its original definition,
but I agree with you, so I won’t bother.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe, but if you know anyone that it's happened too, using the term casually would still piss you off
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
to not too
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
I do, but I don't get offended by much.
However, I do agree that, for better or worse, the general-use definition of rape has come to mean pretty much one thing, and in that context, misapplication of it is a bad thing because it devalues the event.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
Are you referring to "rape" or a "fucking game"?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Fucking games are my favorite kind of games.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
Not to get really personal
But seeing this used here the last couple of days has been quite possibly the worst timing.
It’s really, really not cool.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:14 AM PST up reply actions
DFA and I are just agreeing all over the place right now
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
you are now on at least 3 govt watchlists
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
I imagine them combing through my AN posts in the manner J. Edgar Hoover would
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
Seriously?!?
We just went over this.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
Wow.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
So does Uggla.
So considering that relievers are, by and large, pretty meh as a whole, the Marlins figured that Dan Uggla = Omar Infante. Jesus.
Damn, I wish the A's got in on this now.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
This is what I keep saying!
So many of the GMs in baseball are completely brainless. We could be ripping people off right, left, and center right now.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
PROVEN HUMAN
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
don't remind me, man
&&^&^&(*
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2010 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
The DBs did get a pretty high quality prospect too though right?
Not to defend it (it was a bad trade), but it wasn’t Joe Saunders straight up or anything.
It was A level pitcher Tyler Skaggs
While he has put up pretty good numbers, he’s still just an A level pitcher…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
If only Rosales made the all star team...
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
Rosales has 4 more years of team control to try
Fuck me but who wouldn’t be willing to trade Rosales for Uggs?!
The monster at the end of this blog.
Ehh i'm not much of an Ugg fan
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
What about Man Ram?
Although I’ve read that “we are not interested”
DH: Manny Ramirez
3B: Beltre
RF: Magglio Ordonez
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 2:47 PM PST reply actions
You'll win the 2004 World Series for sure.
Over the Monster -- SB Nation's Resident Red Sox Site
USG
by Ben Buchanan on Nov 16, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Thinking as Cheap as possible.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
Manny Ramirez cost money. So does Beltre.
Not sure how this seems “cheap” to you.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
Really you want to use those 3 names to think cheaply as possible?
I think if you want cheap..
DH: Jack Cust
hard to go with anyone else but Beltre for 3B.
Read:
Agent Scott Boras was upfront in his conversation with Shaikin, explaining that Manny is seeking a one-year, incentive-laden deal as a designated hitter.
Sounds like the A’s right?
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Mags is 36.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Read:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/custja01.shtml
I’m all for grabbing a little Manny, but he’s not a priority in any way.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
Sure, but what do male babysitters have to do with anything? =)
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I JUST WANT TO INAPPROPRIATELY GROPE A MALE BABYSITTER OK?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
Why sign someone when you already have a better internal resource? I just don't see it.
And I would think a one year incentive laden deal for Manny would range around 5-8m possibly. What was Frank Thomas I don’t recall..If that is the price I don’t see how that is cheaper then Cust or better.
Thomas was something like $500K-$1M
Because he had a tremendous season I think incentives pushed it to $5M or something like that.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 16, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Sick of Cust
A healthy Ramirez will knock more than 13 dingers and strikeout about 40 times less than Cust. We only need to make up what, 10 games this year to maybe win our Division? Wasn’t Cust the guy cut like 48 hours before the season started last year?
Lets not forget we are all commenting on a fantasy that the A’s will sign Beltre here…
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Manny had 8 HR last year
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
Did he play the whole year?
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
Is there any reason to suggest he will this year?
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
Based on Fangraph
Manny played 90 games in 320 AB with 2 teams – 1.9WAR
Cust played in 112 games with about 425 AB – 2.4 WAR
Bill James seem to think he will do good next year. But I don’t know Manny’s bat speed looks like crap.
So Manny was on a 13 HR pace for 150 games. Cust did it in 112.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry he hit a HR with Chicago. He had 9 in 2010 for a 15 pace
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, who wouldn't be sick of the highest OBP among DHs in all of baseball?
Who wouldn’t be sick of the smartest-hitting DH in all of baseball.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Who wouldn't be sick of the backwards K
With runners in scoring position. Who wouldn’t be sick of the swining K for the “smartest-hitting” DH in “all of baseball”. Ok chief. We make up 10 games in 2011 and we could win our Division based on what won it this season. Put your eggs in the Cust basket and lets see where it gets us.
Man Ram in conjunction with a few others could be enough. Lets not act like Cust is Jesus. BB did cut his ass and NOBODY grabbed him last season.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
There are not enough non-CGV things for me to say to you to comprise a response to that huge pile of uninformed, ignorant, anti-statistical quasi-thinking.
So I’ll just let someone else handle it.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
Please Enlighten Me
I’m curious
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
Why are you blaming the best hitter on the team
for the poor performance of the offense?
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
Best Hitter?
He played in 112 games. What am I missing? I’d even say that Barton was our best hitter last year.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Part of that is because, as you mentioned
Beane sent him to AAA last year. He has no control over that. He also has no control over when Bob Geren put him in the lineup.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
But He's our Best Hitter.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Also:
.273 .393 .405
.272 .395 .438
Which of these two hitters had the better year?
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
Which guy played in 159 Games?
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
Does Jack cust get to pick how many games he plays?
I missed the part where Jack Cust was the player-manager of the team. Did that happen? I’d love to see that press release come to light.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
Well...
What I’ve read from folks on this board:
1) Best Hitting DH in all of Baseball
2) Best Hitter on the A’s (duh)
3) He doesn’t get playing time, he’s that good
4) The A’s are stupid for not playing the strikeout king.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
Strikeouts aren't that bad.
He’s not the best DH, but he’s good and certainly not a problem. He got on a base a ton, he’s cheap, and the A’s made a stupid move.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
What evidence do you have that he's a bad hitter
other than GUYS!!! STRICKOUTS?!!!
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
Oh JOY!
A Cust debate
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
(grabs popcorn)
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
(grabs crotch)
oops, sorry. I meant to grab mine
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
It's OK. You can put your hand back.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
Yeah...
Look what have we been reduced to…
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
Still waiting for that evidence.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
(calls crime lab)
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
CSI: Sarasota
“Is Jack Cust really a better hitter than Manny?”
“It’s like my underwear…Depends”
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 16, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
I was thinking more along the lines of:
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Lets just say
His illustrious MLB career is enough evidence.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry, what does this mean?
Could you clarify please?
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Really Yo?
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
I mean..
You really need clarification?
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
No. We really don't.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
by pam5981 on Nov 16, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with Pam on everything since
she approved of my tamale eating habits
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you...
I’d rather not spend my day arguing over the merits of a career minor leaguer until his fantastic hitting abilities came to the cheap Oakland A’s and now because Andrew Patrick wants me to, I should use “stats” to prove what my eyes see…
How about this for a blog…
God’s Design: Jack Cust
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks for reading my blog!
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
Of Course My Brother...
I expect to see one about Jack real soon. ;)
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
Well, for the record, you're wrong.
I was just trying to stop the discussion.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
by pam5981 on Nov 16, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 10 recs
this
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
+Infante
oops, infinity
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Sweet!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
To no end.
How are ya?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Hanging in there.
Lots going on.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Sometimes ;)
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Baseball is a sport that requires a huge sample size to tell how good someone is.
You cannot possibly remember enough of his at bats to judge him based on what you saw.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
signed, Carlos Gonzales
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
LOL!
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
Scare quotes!!!
SEE!?? I’m not the only one who uses them to talk about “stats”
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
The Trifecta.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
But we have to let this dude in.
I’m not yet convinced.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Me neither.
And I don’t really feel like reading this whole subthread to see what his deal is, so yeah.
by whiteshoes40 on Nov 16, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
dear joe morgan.
top three A’s in wOBP last season:
Cust .371
Crisp .361
Barton .359.
There are people who have made up a stat, based upon historical data of what each individual offensive event is worth, and then made it into wOBP. Cust led the A’s in it last year. He is a good offensive player, and was better than anyone else on the A’s year, and was a bargain. Quiet frankly, your eyes are wrong.
Jack Cust: Nothing but true results…. Sac OPS: .964
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 16, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
Just like BB wrote Moneyball.
That Joe sure knows how to find the scandals!
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
THERE IT IS, FOLKS!
“I watch the games, I don’t need to rely on stupid facts and numbers.”
Athletics Nation is a stat blog almost as much as it’s an A’s blog. There are people who are members of this community that are only A’s fans because of how smart Billy Beane is and how cool they thought Moneyball was.
And you come in here telling people about how stats are dumb?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
Athletics Nation is NOT a "stats blog"
I should know; I run it. It’s a community for all kinds of A’s fans of all kinds of mindsets.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 16, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
let me help
Athletics Nationisshould be a stat blog almost as much as it’s an A’s blog. There are people who are members of this community that are only A’s fans because of how smart Billy Beane is and how cool they thought Moneyball was.
And you come in here telling people about how stats are dumb?
fixed
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
No, it shouldn't.
There are terrific places like Fangraphs and Beyond the Box Score for that. AN is an A’s blog, and that’s exactly the way it should be.
by danmerqury on Nov 16, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
imagine an A's blog where you didn't have to explain how Jack Cust doesn't suck three times a day.
I won’t be finishing this comment as I wouldn’t want to deprive you of that dream as long as it lasts.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
Or, you could frequent one.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
suggestions?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Newballpark.org
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Isn't that blog completely filled with
the one kind of thread that DFA hates even more than Cust arguments, viz., stadium arguments?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Nov 16, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
VIZ VIZ VIZ VIZ VIZ VIZ VIZ VIZ VIZ
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 8:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that site is unreadable for DFA
iirc DFA main motivation for deleting his fanpost was the stadium chatter aggravated him and the deletion was so he didn’t have to experience his blood pressure spike by looking to the right margin of his browser.
Not really
newballpark does a good job with research and explaining the proposals. The problem isn’t knowing whats going on its the inane arguing between people that don’t agree on the common set of facts that just turns into people bashing that happens here. Also I feel limited in making my arguments within the scope of the community guidelines.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 17, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly. My comment is as centrist as it gets
Here’s a thought off the top of my head: Why doesn’t someone construct a good summary of why Cust is a good hitter, I’ll add it to the ANcillary terms, and from now on any time someone brings up the same old argument one can just reply, “here” (linking to…). There’s no reason the same thing has to be debated over and over.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Now that's a good idea.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
Of even a well done FanPost that is permanently stickied or something
I do think it’s a discussion worth having because not everybody who comes here thinking he’s bad because of STRICKOUTS is incapable or unwilling to understand the numbers. But, also, it’s a little tedious to go through this so often, so it’d be nice to have something definitive to link to.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, I really need clarification.
Preferably with some statistical data suggesting that he’s not a very good hitter.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
He had an OPS over .800.
What more do you want from a DH?
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
MOAR DINGERZ! LESS STRICKOUTS!11!!!!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
(Jeepers, where are you? I put the 1s in there that time!)
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor
Pam liked my old sig better.
Oh lord.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Hi Pam
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
Don't play that card, son.
This “debate” started with a comment heading that read, “Sick of Cust.” One guess on who wrote that comment.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
youre right but calling people son is probably not a good idea.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
Especially women
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
But now I can say I sonned him!
That was a slang term for a couple of minutes a few years ago!
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
You're not my son, guy
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
I'm not your guy, buddy.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not your buddy, pal
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
Hey I'm not your pal, son.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm glad we completed that circle before it went the South Park route.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't be a Tuesday without one.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
is how I set my clock
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
Shouldn't we be in Belgium?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
(I don't get it :( )
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
w/e
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
hey
I have recommended THREE of your comments on this thread ALONE.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Ooh. Damn.
But that’s not the same as the funny list.
off to refresh thread
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I passed Pam on a list?
Wow. And sorry Pam, I didn’t mean to. (braces self for retribution)
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions
Nah, Ed's list doesn't count.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Whew
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
It's always someone new.
Has anybody ever been converted? If so, it’s worth going through the whole thing each time.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
we should go door to door
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
"Hi, we're with Cust's Witnesses.
Have you heard the news? He’s good."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
"STRICKOUTS!!!"
SLAM
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
I was converted.
I came to AN a Cust-hater. I was reborn in the fires of having been banned, and emerged a new, better human being with a different screenname who understands that Jack Cust is one of the finer hitters in the game.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
What was your original screen name?
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
Brad Ziegler.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Ok that was funny
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
but your old sn didn't break the updated comments box
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
That's the price of conversion.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Worth it, no?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Nah, it's Justin Upton
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
I've no idea, but I'm expecting him to become the career leader at some point!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
Nah, it's Babe Ruth.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
Responses
1) SMARTEST-hitting DH in all of baseball. No, he doesn’t have the raw talent of a Jim Thome, but you will not find too many smarter hitters in baseball right now. The guy could spot the strike zone from a mile away, and he’s one of the only examples I can point to of a guy who ACTUALLY can hit somewhat “situationally.” He could have busted a few more HRs, to be sure, but he switched up his style when appropriate. If the A’s needed a baserunner or a base hit more than they needed to roll the dice on a HR—which was pretty much always—he came through when others couldn’t.
2) Statistics don’t lie. Your subjective hatred for strikeouts doesn’t change that.
3) You’re relying on BOB GEREN’s choices for quality evaluation? Say that to yourself in your head: “I just relied on Bob Geren’s decisionmaking as a reason I’m right.” You should feel dirty afterward.
4) The fact that a lot of his outs are strikeouts doesn’t change the fact that HE MAKES FEWER OUTS THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THE TEAM.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Geren Doesn't Call the Shots.
BB does.
Say that yourself in your head: “I think Bob Geren makes the decisions on the A’s.”
Btw Joe, this is done now. I tossed in the towel a bit down in the thread.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
But I thought Al Davis called all the shots?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
I must have missed this the first time around.
Billy Beane doesn’t write the lineup card. Try again.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:40 AM PST up reply actions
Oooh oooh, I know this!
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 16, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
BTW...
I love the “huge pile of uninformed, ignorant, anti-statistical quasi-thinking” in saying that Cust is the “smartest-hitting” DH in all of baseball. Yet he only played 112 games for us and spent some the season in AAA.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Go away, troll.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
Funny...
You get some resistance or a re-quote and I’m a troll?
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
please leave
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 16, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Still not understanding how this is Cust's fault
when Beane and Forst were the idiots who stuck with Fox, Patterson, and Chavez on the roster
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
I was hoping for another Cust argument
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
I had a rough day.
Then I come here and see bullshit about Cust and Beane Eric Chavezing Conor Jackson….cut me some slack
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
Bad day crafting lenses?
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
something like that
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
sorry buddy
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, what?
So when Daric Barton plays in 150+ games in a season, everyone else on the team is standing around going, “Hey, why didn’t I think of that?”
Number of games played is not a metric of a hitter’s intelligence. And in this case, since the only reason he played so few was that Bob Geren is an idiot and Billy Beane made a COLOSSAL mistake in having Chavy be the starting DH and demoting Cust to AAA, it’s not even an indicator of his innate ability. What on Earth are you talking about?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not here to talk about the past
But even you would agree, statistically, you can’t compare the two. How do you allot for the extra 47 games DB played? Do you take JC’s best 47 and calculate based on that? Do you take his worst? His average? How do you compare? You can’t. You don’t know how the extra 47 games would have panned out for JC. So when presented w/ 2 different stat lines and asked “who’s better” or w/e it was… My question was, who played more games.
You can’t just assume that an extra 47 games for JC would have been purely positive, and I can’t assume that an extra 47 would have been purely negative.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
But you can make a pretty good prediction based on history
Historically Cust has been productive, so it’s a pretty good bet he’ll be productive in the next 47 games
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
Why do I need to account for the difference in games?
That would be silly. As you yourself note, we can’t assume that the extra 47 games would have been “purely positive” or “purely negative,” which only means we know he would not have OBPd 1.000 with a SLG of 4.000, and we know he would not have OBPd a .000 with a SLG of .000.
Now if only there were a way to figure out what he probably would have done in those 47 games. I’m just blue-skying here, of course, I’m not smart enough to come up with something, but I imagine that it would somehow take into account his past performance, perhaps an “average,” or a “percentage,” something like a…like a…I don’t know, an “on-base percentage”? Or perhaps a “weighted on-base average”? Perhaps even a “slugging percentage,” and then maybe you could add the “slugging percentage” to the “on-base percentage” and come up with something else, don’t know what you’d really call it.
Oh, what’s that? You say we already have those things? You say those things are ALWAYS what we use to evaluate a player’s performance? Oh, well, never mind, then. I guess we do have a pretty good idea of what Jack would have done in those 47 games. I’m guessing it would have been something like .272/.395/.438.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
Just sending up a trial balloon.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting...
To see who they listed as Top Player for A’s 2010.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/OAK/#franchise_years::none
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
wait...
so a guy that played more games and played plus defense (barton) is better than an offense only guy that played fewer games (cust) when value is measured by WAR? i’m shocked.
i blieve the topic was best hitter on the a’s. by woba, that’s jack cust.
keep digging dude, you’ll end up in china soon.
ha
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions
Don'tcha love when people change their argument mid-stream?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:48 AM PST up reply actions
in my defense, i suggested earlier that this chap power search for cust and enjoy
there’s nothing he’s gonna say that hasn’t been said literally a million times before.
the problem is that this isn’t an opinion thing. factually, cust is the best hitter on the team. this isn’t coke vs pepsi which is an opinion thing. this is one hitter’s woba being greater than another’s. if you wanna debate woba, fine. but then danmerqury ends it with a hammerlock of logic and you tap out.
It's Pepsi, by the way, although Coke is also delicious.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 8:22 AM PST up reply actions
If you ask for a "Coke" in The South
They’ll respond, “What type?”
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
And you respond, "powder, not rock."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
hah
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
...and what's your point? Of course Daric Barton was our best player in 2010.
I’m not seeing what you’re driving at here. It has absolutely zero bearing on this discussion.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 8:22 AM PST up reply actions
Smartest hitting DH in baseball? That's funny.
"Life is tough .... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne
Because all life is meaningless and the attempt to ascribe value to anything, whether it be global warfare or the decisions of a sportsman, is ultimately futile?
Or because you don’t understand that drawing walks and getting on base are good things for a baseball player to do?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
You can be "sick of Cust," but he's still better than Ramirez.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Plus, after all this,
Why do people insist on derailing Blez’s post on Beltre with all this Cust stuff? Can we stick to topic people?
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
OK, I'm all for Beltre if we can't get Crawford
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
i think blez should delete it.
(note, not a dig at anyone, just prolonging the gag)
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
this is exactly the sh*t that should get deleted
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
For the Cust Lovers
From the Article Above:
Jack Cust. This may come as a surprise, given his lack of security with Oakland, but Cust ranks among the best hitters in the AL over the past four seasons: first in walks (377), fifth in OBP (.381) and ninth in adjusted OPS (125) — all while playing in a park that depresses offense.
I GUESS I’LL SHUT UP NOW… Still don’t like him… but for now, you win on the “Cust is a good hiter”… There are some stats for you Andrew & Dan.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
WTF!
Dude, please give it a rest! Stick to topic please
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry...
This IS on the Jack Cust topic from above.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
I know, but the insanity has to stop.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
[insert "definition" of insanity here]
cue Dan banging his head on the desk
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
"Insanity is banging your head repeatedly on the table
and expecting me to care."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Oh... Beltre...
My bad.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
See? Tuesday.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
You mean we have to wait a whole week?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure we won't.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
From a Cust Lover
I know that I wasn’t part of this conversation, but why didn’t you check the numbers after you were accussed of being misinformed?
Obviously, some people aren’t as frustrated with strickouts as you are. Also, regarding Cust’s playing time: that would be Beane’s decision to try desperately to give Chavez a shot, because going into the year it seemed pretty clear to me that Cust was a better hitter than Chavez. Also, he was cut because the A’s recognized that nobody else wanted him for what he would have gotten in arbitration and they wanted to save money. I really have a hard time buying into the argument that just because somebody is unwanted means that he is bad; it may be true more often than not, but there are expections.
GO START A CUST THREAD AND PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Thank you
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
Honestly, this has next to nothing to do with Cust
I specifically wanted to right it because of the type of discussion that was taking place. I recognize that staying on topic helps create better threads so I will try my best in the future, but I also think that threads are better whent there is thoughtful discussion. Sticking by an argument that you hadn’t (I realize that Matthew eventually did look up some supporting information) researched is very conterproductive and gets people upset. I also don’t want to ever treat someone on AN as “just a troll” since I would guess that trolls are actually few and far between.
This should be over, please don't comment back.
MY POV:
.249 w/ RISP
.205 w/ RISP & 2O
+ K’s.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, no.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
by pam5981 on Nov 16, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have his splits from cloudy Thursdays and they ain't pretty
Shall I post them…?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I only want the ones from Ruby Tuesdays
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 16, 2010 10:26 PM PST up reply actions
Those would change with every new day
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:18 AM PST up reply actions
Who could hang a name on those?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, no. I saw him strikeout once.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Nov 16, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So the key is to stop you from watching?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Not gonna happen. Like most perverts,
I like to watch.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Then I don't want Beltre
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Ew
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
Think Beltre
Could break the glass on the suite’s behind the LF bleachers like Sal Fasano did? I want to see it.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
When Sal Did it
It was awesome… Seeing Beltre do it in our colors would be almost as sweet as Marco’s Walk Off GS vs. Rivera.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
Wait for Chris Carter.
He’ll break every window!
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
the windows all broke when he stepped foot in oakland for the first time
trogdor the burninator…the legend begins
no offense dude, but there's nothing you're gonna say that hasn't been said eleventy billion times before.
just power search cust and enjoy.
friendly advice.
Please, Billy. Read this article.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
What makes you say that?
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Two surreal things in one tweet:
Conor Jackson is on someone’s list, and the A’s aren’t moving him.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
We've already said our goodbyes to him
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
You know, I'd rather have Gross than CoJack.
Good attitude and stayed healthy.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Gabe Gross only stayed healthy to spite us.
by TnSD11 on Nov 16, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That's how much I don't like Conor Jackson.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
It's the eyebrows, isn't it.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Eyebrow haters:
Dangit, people with big eyebrows are people too!
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
They're sexy on women...as long as there are two
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:20 AM PST up reply actions
I prefer one
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
I realize that Conor Jackson has done nothing for us
But a corner outfielder on this team that had .360 wOBAs from 2006-2008 isn’t worth just throwing away. Sure in 2009 and 2010 he only had about 300 PAs and not much to show for it, but I personally would love to see what he can do in Spring Training if nothing else considering that he apparently has no trade value.
That's basically Beane's attitude on CoJack, I assume.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 16, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
It’s worth taking a shot IMO.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Nov 16, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions
Why do you think that?
It would be better to pay me his arb salary, because at least the A’s will get some of that back when I buy season tickets.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
He's absolutely worth throwing away rather than paying a dead minimum $2.5M salary to
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Rec'd
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Gross? Hmm...should'n't he be doing Life Alert commercials by now?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Doesnt mean the A's arent moving him
Just that Beane asked for more then the Rockies wanted to give up, meaning we value the player more so then other teams (still a surreal finding)
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
We'll give you Conor Jackson and Greg Smith (oh wait, we already gave you him), for Carlos Gonzales and a bullpen arm....Street?
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
He's has some interesting potential
But I definitely would like to see him flipped for a prospect or something
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
A playoff team can still afford to stash a guy like that as a 5th OF though
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know about you
But I am still awaiting to see if he can get back into form pre-valley fever..
I'm OK with his doing that in Sacramento
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Dammit
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 16, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Fucking Beane.
Someone knock it into his head that just because you liked a player when he was good 4 years ago doesn’t mean he’s good anymore. He should be handing Jackson to the Rockies for anything.
If we tender a contract to fucking Jackson….
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
Not weird, Billy likes him for some reason, and you know how Billy is when he finds something he likes.
He’s like Lenny from Of Mice & Men with a soft object. “Tell me about the rabbits, Deorge!”
Ridiculous, since for some incomprehensible reason the Rockies are apparently high on the dude.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
Well, the good part is that he'll be hurt so he won't have much chance to be bad
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
Given Florida's wierd stream of moves the past few days....
I wonder if anybody else can be had on that team (Gaby Sanchez?)
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Where would you play him?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Solid DH candidate
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Is he any better than Manny, Berkman, Cust and the like?
They can all be had for just money, and not players
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
Gaby Sanchez is 25 years old, was a candidate for Rookie of the Year, and has played 3b in the minors
Sanchez would be a long term player, or we can even flip him in a bigger trade
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Dude, we're trading for the 2008 Gaby Sanchez.
Pay attention.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
Hee
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, we can do that? Can we sign the 2004 Beltre for 5 years?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather sign 1926 Ruth for 7 years
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
I'd go all the way to 10, man, just to make sure we got him.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
I predict crappiness in the last three years though. Still could be worth it.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
He might not be able to avoid 50-game suspensions at this point.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Whereas Ruth's syphilis would be no problem at this point
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:20 AM PST up reply actions
So it's settled: Babe Ruth will play RF for the A's this year.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:49 AM PST up reply actions
He had the siff?
Did not know that.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
Yup, he was born with it
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
Wow, bum luck.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
At 1920s prices? Bargain!
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
-
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
So what
Point being id rather have a 27 year old Gaby Sanchez then a ~37 year old Manny or Berkman
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
OK but you'd have to trade for him. It would cost you Adam Rosales!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
At which age?
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
How did he gett hat old?
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
I've been wondering that about myself
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
3b
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
reply fail
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
Not, let's just steal the actual base
Then when they can’t figure out why they aren’t scoring any runs we give it back in return for Hanley.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
You really want Sanchez at 3B?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
Didnt say I wanted him there,
But could fill in in case Kouz/Edwin/whoever gets injured. Same with Barton. Primary DH/backup at 1b and 3b
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
He played it in the minors. Atleast we can have a learn third base off with him and barton
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
I’m wary. He’s getting up there in years and let’s not forget what happened after his MONSTROUS contract year in LA… 5 years jumping from mediocre to decent to terrible at a superstar salary. He’d certainly be an upgrade but I don’t think the value is there.
Doesn't seem like we're talking about the same player...
you know this thread is about Adrian Beltre, right?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Beltre was worth about exactly what Seattle paid him. That was not a bad contract.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
But it was undeniable that he turned it way ON in his contract year
Especially from the plate.
Then failed to sustain that level of performance. He did that at the end of his previous contract as well.
Whether or not the contract with Seattle was “bad” or “good” it was NOT up to the level of performance in his last LAD year. I think that’s what gets him a little bit of the “dog” and “inconsistent” rap.
But whatever, the value is there. He is consistently all-star caliber at hitting and fielding. We don’t have anybody like that.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 16, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
Well...it's hard to sustain a 10 WAR level of production, if you're not named Barry Bonds...
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
I don't understand this
He had what you describe as a MONSTER year, a career year, and then if he doesn’t replicate that then he’s failing, regardless of how good his other years were. Maybe he didn’t reach the level of his last year in LA, but he still has been consistently a very good hitter. The idea that once you have a career year you have to continue that to be successful is ridiculous.
by longtimeasfan on Nov 16, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
If he doesn't replicate it, he's not that much better than Kouz.
I think there’s some validity to that argument.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
I'd call a 1-2 WAR improvement significant
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
We know how I feel on this, so I'm just gonna shut up.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Oops sorry I forgot
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Ha no I just meant I've beat it to death, so I'll let it go this time.
I’m just waiting to see how it pans out.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
I was talking more about the comparison to 2004
The idea that he went to Seattle and didn’t do as well as in his last year in 2004, despite actually playing pretty well in Seattle, is what I have a problem with. He has been consistently very good – not consistently his last year in LA, but that doesn’t mean he has not been consistently good.
by longtimeasfan on Nov 16, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Except in his contract year at the end of the Seattle deal
Although he as injured for part of the year.
I personally am not in favor of signing Beltre for the monster numbers I am seeing
Being a Boras client, and Boras is already bragging how he has more interest than anyone he has ever represented, someone is going to pay through the nose for him, and I just don’t like tying up that much money in one player. It just does not make good business sense.
I'm here to talk about Don
What other 3Bs are available and who needs them?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
From what is being reported up to 12 teams have expressed interest.
Sounds like chum in the water. Someone is going to get hosed.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
I agree.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
stupid computer
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
why can't we just keep Kouz
proven glove.
Spend on that outfield bat for power.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We probably will if Beltre has 11 other suitors
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
and that is not a bad thing IMO
While I would love his bat, IF WHEN something happens to his health, we have so much money tied up in him we are hamstrung.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather have money tied up in good players that might get hurt
than not have good players
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
IF
DeJesus, Edwin + Beltre + whoever else they sign, get us there, I’m all for it…. I just don’t think it’s in the A’s model to splash the type of cash he’s going to command.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
Why do people assume Beltre has 11 other suitors
just because his agent says so? Boras is famous for hyperbolically overstating everything in regards to his clients (what was the ridiculous comp he made between one of his clients and a clear superstar?). Beltre could have 2 suitors and Boras would say it’s 12.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It does make sense that there would be demand for his services, yes?
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Sure.
But not at the level Boras suggests. In analyzing the market for Beltre, one should ignore everything Boras says and then figure it out from listening to real sources.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But wait
Scott Boras never lies. He told me so himself.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
And you believed that was Scott Boras?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
Everything I say is a lie
Except that, and that, and that, and that, and that….
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
Yeah, but seriously, let's think for a second
AL West: A’s and Angels (Pretty much no way Texas or Seattle gets nvolved)
AL Central: MAYBE Detroit (CWS has Viciedo and others, Cleveland won’t get involved, KC can’t afford and won’t try, Minnesota has Valencia)
AL East: BoSox, maybe Toronto or Baltimore (let’s say 1 of those 2 max, TB and Yankees don’t need or want)
NL West: Maybe SF (AZ won’t try, SD can’t, Rockies have bigger fish to fry, Dodgers have Blake, need 1B more)
NL Central: Cards or Pirates might get involved (StL has Rolen, Astros got Johnson, Cubs have Aramis, Brew Crew has other options)
NL East: Outside of Florida every single team has good enough internal options.
Ok, so if we are to look at it like this, the max total number of suitors possible would be 9, but more like 5, as I doubt Cards can afford another long term deal, there is no way he’s going to Pittsburgh, Baltimore has other priorities, and between Toronto and Detroit I don’t see both of them getting involved….
So, serious suitors leaves us with SF, LAA, Boston and us.
I really don’t see how anyone is going to be able to want, afford or have room for Beltre on a 4-5 year deal…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I pretty much agree with this
The only other teams I can see are the Dodgers and Brewers. Blake is mighty old and McGehee is a bad defender. Brewers might see defense as a way to upgrade their pitching
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
rec'd
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
Bidding between LAA and Boston (and hopefully us) can easily get to the 4-5 year range.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
So 5/$75M is a possibility? That's no worse than 7/$100
for Crawford
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
I think Crawford is gonna be a bit more than that
I really hope Boston and LAA get into a huge bidding war for him, driving his price up to 7/120
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
They might. Especially if LAA gets desperate when we *ahem* take Belre off the table.
Heck, maybe Moreno will even get desperate enough that he signs Crawford to a 7/150 contract…forcing him to have to sell the team two years later.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
I want Moreno to remain in baseball
As much as I want the Angels to suck I love having Moreno in the game. As has been said many times over, I wish Moreno was our owner.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 16, 2010 6:22 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe he can be our financial backer after he sells the Angels.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
Yay Arturo!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
All for it.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
This means Beltre's a bargain!
We can’t afford NOT to sign him!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely
I’m just saying, yeah, 11 teams may have contacted Boras, but let’s try and look at who would be serious.
I was doing this for my own as much as for the community, I just wanted to run through every team and see who could even possibly want or afford him…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
Aramis is replacement level, but will the cubs swallow to contracts?
14,600,000 this year, but free agent after… They could be a team to trade e5 or kouz to…
Ramirez had an injury-filled year. He's not a replacement level player going forward.
He won’t be worth his contract (he also has a full no trade, I think), but he’ll be good.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
I'm with Pam on this one
if 11 teams have asked about Beltre, they are at least thinking of an upgrade. Kouzmanoff and Encarnacion may also be upgrades for them.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
So we sign Beltre and trade Kouz and EE to the LOSERS!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
WE'RE THE KINGS OF THIRD BASE
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
I understand this
But, the reason I am for Beltre is I think that would allow us to get an upgrade over Kouz on offense from 3B and then trade Kouz and others for an OF bat. This, if the right deals come up, would allow the A’s to upgrade at both positions.
by longtimeasfan on Nov 16, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Kouz probably won't have any trade value if the A's sign Beltre.
Other teams know they can just wait for the A’s to nontender him.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
depends on the 3b market
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
I doubt they would non-tender him unless they absolutely can't afford him
Even if they don’t trade him right away they can wait until ST or early in the season when someone goes down with injury and some team needs him…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Are they allowed to cut him in ST and pay 1/6 of his salary?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
1/6th by March 15, 1/4th after March 15
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Is that only with arb awards or does it work with a regular contract too?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Teams may sign players to non-guaranteed contracts, yes
It’s not at all uncommon for teams to sign “minor league deals” which nominally pay the guy x dollars but require him to be on the big league roster or released by a certain day, usually sometime in spring or the start of the season.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Hmm...so EE and KK probably wouldn't go for those
Arb is the way to go if they want that escape clause
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
ESCAPE? THEY'LL NEVER ESCAPE...FROM THE KINGS OF THIRD BASE
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
I'm almost 100% sure that you can also sign
“settlement contracts” (i.e. one-year deals in lieu of proceeding with a hearing) which have substantive terms that are essentially identical to the terms of a contract that would be awarded by an arbitrator. I’m pretty sure you don’t actually have to go through the unpleasantness of a hearing to set up the above-mentioned severance-pay scheme.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
This sounds good
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:21 AM PST up reply actions
And trade him for what?
No one’s going to give the A’s a COF better than Sweeney for him. Kouz was acquired last year for Hairston and Cunningham. It’s a year later, his numbers have slipped, he has less years of team control, and he’s more expensive. He has substantially lesser value and it doesn’t make sense for the A’s to gamble money like that, hoping for a good return.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
We may get someone healthier than Sweeney
I’m thinking Pie or Scott. Also he could be a 2nd piece in a deal for Kemp. Or he could get us a couple of C+ prospects
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think LAD wants to pay both Kouz and Blake, at the expense of Kemp, just so they can play Kouz.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
That's true
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
they can put blake in a COF spot which they don't really have a solution for
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
Or they could just put Kemp there
We might have to throw in Rajai to make it their while
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
but then they don't have a CFer
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
Hee
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
Trading
That’s hoping that BB trades for MLB ready players and not prospects.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
Oh I agree
But, you never know with BB. What could Kouz bring in, and who would he have to packaged with?
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
Right
I don’t think he would trade for prospects – the idea would be to trade for a current MLB outfielder who has already been successful.
by longtimeasfan on Nov 16, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
Jermaine Dye?
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
I was kidding.
He’s a FA anyways.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
Who with a surplus of OF bats needs a 3B?
Baltimore? Toronto? Seattle?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Just going from last year's 3B WAR list,
Angels, Mariners, White Sox, Orioles, Astros, Marlins, Indians, and the Pirates all got 1 WAR or less from their 3Bmen.
Pirates will probably keep Alvarez there another year
Angels — nobody likely
Mariners — Saunders?
White Sox — nobody likely
Orioles — Pie? Scott?
Astros — nobody I want
Marlins — Coghlan’s there now
Indians — LaPorta? Sizemore! They’ve got Chisenhall anyway
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
Well the A's can really only shop to teams in the NL or those with better records in the AL.
The others already had a free shot at E5. So I doubt Seattle, Anaheim, KC, Cleveland, or Baltimore want him.
Are the Rockies that impatient with Ian Stewart? Perhaps the Cubs?
Cubs have Aramis. They'll probably just hope he comes back to form
I doubt the Rockies trade Stewart, but if they do…..yay!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
Isn't Stewart really a 2B anyway?
Barmes is terrible, so Kouz could still fit with Stewart in the mix…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
Stewart's played 33 G at 2B in the majors and 2 in the minors
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm...I guess I thought that because that's where they started him when he got called up?
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
I think that was because they had Atkins
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
If Pandoval is still fat next year, maybe the Giants?
Or is Derosa gonna play third? Do we trade with the Giants?
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Yay Pando!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
I have a feeling Sabean won't trade much with Beane
That’s just me, though…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Or, alternatively, he'll trade a bunch with Beane because he thinks he's smarter now.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
A Sabean who thinks all his bad decisions have been vindicated
That could have some positive implications for the rest of the league.
by Glorious Mundy on Nov 16, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Sure could.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
Kouzmanoff's offense is rapidly going into Crosby range
Three years of decline is a bad sign.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 16, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
Prado might be available if Chipper is healthy
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Not many good ones.
There’s Joe Crede, Jorge Cantu, Mike Lowell, and Miguel Tejada. Not the greatest crop.
I'd take Kouz over probably any of those.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
+1 as well.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
So, dumb question, probably (shush)
Isn’t it good if we help to drive up the price on Beltre, keep Kouz, and ship Encarnacion off to someone who lost out on Beltre? Doesn’t that help us?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Boras will get the price driven up just fine on his own me thinketh
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Nov 16, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
Seems good.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 16, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Encarnacion will have any trade value, especially if the A's make it clear that they're keeping Kouz.
Again, they could just wait for the nontender and sign him as a free agent.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
But what if they didn't say one way or the other on Kouz?
The gap between Encarnacion and Kouz isn’t exactly all that huge, especially because of Kouz’s bad year with the bat. Couldn’t the A’s shop Encarnacion without declaring that he’s dead weight?
Also, couldn't they potentially keep him as the DH?
Do not yell at me, I am not starting another Jack Cust argument.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I like the idea of EE as a 4 Corner/DH Utility guy. I'm fine without the
Gross/Larish et al. combination
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
He's not better than our current DH or any possible FA acquisitions for DH.
So he’d be an expensive DH bench guy.
I want a DH bench guy to prevent me from seeing Matts again
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
No worries...
u’ll see Cjax and Buck instead.
Oh goody
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:22 AM PST up reply actions
They would have to tender Encarnacion a contract then.
Which would entail paying him around 5 million. Or perhaps they could sign Encarnacion to a 2/8 deal, but I don’t think E5 would agree to that when he’s not guaranteed a starting spot in the field and with free agency as an option instead (and with a bunch of other teams with interest in 3B this year).
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
Toronto let E5 go for two reasons
He told them he wanted to play every day… which wasn’t going to happen.
And they thought he’d earn a raise if he went to arbitration. So if you’re talking about the A’s not non-tendering him you’re looking at a minimum $6 million salary and probably closer to $6.5
The monster at the end of this blog.
Yeah, I guess the 2/8 and being a part time player thing ain't happening.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
I just have a feeling a "part time" guy will get 600 PA if he
stays healthy on this team
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Well...
If he truly wants to play everyday than he’ll give up money to do so.
If the A’s want to try him in RF, while making him a DH platoon partner with Berkman and let him back up 3B/1B… essentially making him “mostly” full time if not an every day player at the same position than he might be willing to sign a 2 year deal with Oakland.
My thinking is Beane will try to convince Edwin that if he gets waived he will become a FA and no one will pay him what he could make if he was tendered arbitration. Oakland could offer him $3.5 with incentives to push it to $5 million in 2011 and an option for 2012 that includes a $500K buy-out or $6.5 million. That would allow Edwin to save face and potentially earn more next year than he made in 2010 and give the A’s the opportunity to keep him around on the (relative) cheap in 2012 if he hits like a monster.
Or he gets non-tendered in December if playing time is items #1, 2 and 3 on his agenda. And I won’t fault a guy who turns down money to guarantee he gets to play.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Nov 16, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
This makes a lot of sense, but does it preclude the A's from getting an actual, bonafide right fielder?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
Like who?
If you sign Werth he’s your starter.
Maybe you could convince Edwin that he’d get his playing time if you signed Mags.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I suppose I'm still holding out for Kemp or another trade option...
I guess just don’t think this team can compete if E5 is starting in right field to begin the season.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see how Ordonez is any better or healthier
than Sweeney. At least I don’t think Kemp is hurt.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
If the other teams were smart,
they wouldn’t be looking to trade for either one until after the nontender deadline has passed and the A’s have determined which one they’re going to keep.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Ah, that makes sense.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
They could tender both Kouzmanoff and Encarnacion. I hope they do
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
Really? You want the A's to spend their money like that?
I’d rather the A’s devote available monetary resources to a COF or Beltre.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
I'm thinking he could be a 1-2 WAR improvement over Matts
and Larish and Gross and Fox and Patterson and those guys. That’s not a bad use of $5M. He could also platoon with Cust at DH on those 4 days when everyone is healthy and available
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think a ~8 million dollar DH platoon makes much sense.
You’re assuming he can play COF then?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
I guess I am assuming that, and he might not be able to
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
This is in case we can't get Crawford or Beltre
With EE, Rosales and Powell covering all the positions, we could afford a pinch hitter like Nick Johnson or somebody
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
Nick Johnson would actually be a perfect guy to sign
if you have a good DH at AAA (such as Cust last year, or maybe Carter this year). Do a Duchscherer and play him till he breaks; hope for the best and be prepared for the worst.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Crap, so basically Nick Johnson is the next and last move we're making this offseason?
I don’t think I like this scenario since it probably means we’re not making it to the postseason next year.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
(goes back to drawing board)
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far. There's still the trade deadline
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
There's so many options right now though, and all they cost is money at a position the A's got terrible production from this past season.
I think it’ll be a massive failure if they go into next season with their current outfield. Acting at the deadline will cost them 1-3 marginal wins in most likely a close division.
Yes, the deadline thing is only a last resort
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not following --
How would N. Johnson impact other moves one way or the other? His value is low so he wouldn’t figure to be very expensive.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't know either.
I was responding to Waddell’s plan. I don’t know if he planned to add another COF or if he was planning on E5 being his starter in RF.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
Ah
I don’t think E5 will be starting in RF. You don’t just casually put guys in positions they’ve never played.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well obviously Landon Powell
needs someone to throw to when he’s starting a 6-4-3 DP.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You cant play Cust and Powell at SS! thats against the rules!
4-6-3 is what you meant
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 16, 2010 6:34 PM PST up reply actions
Then I think you're going to have to convince him to sign grover's contract
1/3.5 million + incentives + a 6.5 million option year to be a super sub/starter-when-all-hell-breaks-loose. Because it really doesn’t make sense to tender a contract to E5 right now for 6-6.5 million when you intend for him to be a part time player.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
I was going with either Sweeney or a new acquisition
but not Jackson. But as you both say, you don’t just casually put some crappy 3B in RF
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
Idk...
I really like him except for the fact that he gets injured sneezing… a cheap contract sounds good though. I haven’t heard much about him this offseason… what other teams are interested in him?
So the answer is Benadryl
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:24 AM PST up reply actions
If they nontender him it doesn't cost the A's anything?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. –Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I think it was like 20,000 dollars to pick him up off waivers.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
I think Encarnacion is better than Kouz
Much better bat, and defense was much improved last year (plenty of commentators have noted that the Toronto coaches really worked on his footwork. If those improvements stick, along with his rocket arm I think he could be great).
Seems like he has more upside, and his power is not related to his home stadium. Plus we might be able to do a relatively cheap 2 +1 deal with him.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 16, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
This sounds good
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
The A's are in a position where they pretty much have no choice.
They have to “pay through the nose” for a marquee player if they want to make the playoffs. Personally, I would prefer that over rebuilding again.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Why not do both!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
As usual, my reaction to this is an amalgam of half-assed ideas and intuitions
Half-assed idea #1: Me no like overpay for outlier year. Bad medicine.
Related intuition: Eff this proposal.
Half-assed idea #2: The A’s do need upgrades, and at most positions those upgrades are likely to be marginal rather than ginormous.
Related intuition: Beltre’s bat appears to be better than Kouzmanoff’s. This dog might could hunt.
Half-assed idea #3: If overpaying in years/money so that the A’s can capitalize on the present opportunity is the preferable option, what is the absolute most the A’s should offer in years and money before that option is no longer preferable? And is that more or less than what Beltre wants?
Related intuition: Bored now make someone else do the thoughtsmake ooooooooh plastic bag plastic bag plastic bag—
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
by Joey C. on Nov 16, 2010 4:29 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
the bad
Since Boras is the agent this will not be a easy sign or any time soon. boras wait out the offers until he can deliver to his player. Boras is going 5/75 right now with Beltre. Until the Angels or Redsox make a signing there will be no movement. I don’t for see anything getting done before christmas. This means Kouz will be offered arbitration. Good sign will be Angels or redsox signing Crawford so they will lack the money.
I really don't get this.
He will hit what? 5-10 more homeruns than Kouz? His defense is better, but how much better? 10 times better? Cause Beltre will cost 10 imes more than Kouz. I would rather we get Dunn and put him in RF and take his 35+ homers and (not excellent at all) defense.
Make akward sexual advances not war.
by 9Custs on Nov 16, 2010 5:33 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
You really don't want Dunn in RF or any F
I think Beltre is between 50% and 3x better than Kouzmanoff. He’ll probably cost 3x Kouzmanoff per year and I’d pay that on a team that hopes to contend for the next 2-3 years.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know if he's 50% better...
Their numbers aren’t that close offensively. But paying the kind of $ he’s going to get ($15M/Year based on 4/60) for an extra 53 hits, 12 HR’s, 31 RBI’s & 7 more errors, hardly seems worth it. Beltre put up the 2nd best BA of career this year, in Fenway, with their lineup. A career .275 hitter only +17 points higher than Kouz’s career and only +26 points on the OBP over their careers.
He has power sure, but I don’t think he’s worth an extra $11M/Yr over Kouz.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 6:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well I want that $11M spent someplace...either 3B, RF, Pitcher?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
Withouth a doubt. Agreed.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions
Imo...
RF>3B, but upgrading either makes sense.
Me too
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:24 AM PST up reply actions
Kouz is gonna get like 4 million next year
I doubt Beltre’s gonna get 40 million a year.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Maybe he/she means the total contract amount?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
Be sure to tell him he's made his point
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 16, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
Why? It wasn't a very good one.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
That's 63, right?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
bummer
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
by Cheezombie on Nov 16, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Best response to anything ever.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
No, 4782969
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
HEIL?
The longer an internet convo goes, the chance that a Hitler reference is made approaches 100%.
And then when sums95 shows up, the chance that a Hitler reference is made slaps 100% right in the face.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
(which is only to say that you made a Hitler reference)
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
Can Beltre provide the A's with a healthy productive year?
If so, he’d be a nice hitter to have if the price is right.
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
Healthy, most likely yes
Productive, I would say so…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 16, 2010 7:14 PM PST up reply actions
Unfortunately
It feels like the A’s are better at getting hurt than playing baseball these past couple years.
No, the show's called "The Price Is Right."
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 16, 2010 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
Nice Happy Gilmore Reference.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
But the show's called "The Price is Right"
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 8:25 AM PST up reply actions
That show is the bane of my existence
I made it to contestant’s row, and I fricking blew it.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
Yep.
I had a friend who won over $50,000 worth of stuff. And i completely blew it
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
A's will have to offer a very long term contract
Any power hitter who signs a big contract to play in Oakland had better be aware it will be his last. The Coliseum is where home runs go to die, and if the A’s offer enough years that Beltre will be worthless at the end of the contract, he may bite, but I don’t necessarily think that’s a good idea from the A’s point of view.
My guess is Beane will make sure he gets him and will overpay and give him at least 4 years
I think most teams would have to overpay to get him. I kind of hope it happens. We are a couple bats away from being right there with the Rangers in the division, and he would by far be our best overall hitter. It’s not even like Fenway inflated his numbers. He hit better on the road. Better average, better power, and more run production. You figure if we got him and he had Crisp, DeJesus, and Barton hitting in front of him, he could have a ton of opportunities to drive in runs. I say make it happen, even if we have to overpay. I think he’s worth it. If we can get Beltre, swing a deal including Kouzmanoff for a rightfielder who could drive in some runs, and then eventually have Carter added to the lineup, then we can be solid enough to be a legit contender.
Kouz did drive in 71 last year, tops on the team.
"This is Rickey calling on behalf of Rickey. Rickey wants to play baseball."
by Matthew Vizcarra on Nov 16, 2010 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
Because he batted 4th most of the season.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:50 AM PST up reply actions
Because RBIs really are important
Best stat in baseball.
BOTTOM LINE
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
What did BOTTOM LINE want, again?
Was it something about Gio should have been an All-Star and it’s Geren’s fault he wasn’t? And then he wanted to trade Gio like three days later?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
YES!
That was it. I couldn’t remember either.
Nice memory…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Who was that guy? Is he still around?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
No way
He left right after that I believe.
Wish I remembered his SN…
All I can say about stats is…
SCOTT BROSIUS!!
by stranahanahan on Nov 18, 2010 12:03 AM PST up reply actions
Worst part is, a search for "BOTTOM LINE" won't even help because it turned into a minor AN meme after that.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 8:50 AM PST up reply actions
I think he could hit well at the Coliseum too
I know it’s a very small sample, but he did hit .542, with 2 homeruns (about as half as many as Kouzmanoff hit at home last year lol), 5 RBI’s, and a .577 OBP’s last year in 24 ab’s at the Coliseum.
.273/.325/.421 (from Retrosheet.org)
BBref probably has this info, too.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Eh, I'm not going to read much into that
Considering some of the pitchers he faced and what not…
All I can say about stats is…
SCOTT BROSIUS!!
by stranahanahan on Nov 18, 2010 12:03 AM PST up reply actions
Well I don't like Beltre but
I rather see an aggressive move by Bean rather than him trying to trade Michael Taylor for another prospect he likes better
.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 16, 2010 9:48 PM PST up reply actions
*
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
lol I didn't even notice that
""Expelliarmus!" said Eckstein, attempting to knock the bat out of Matt Kemp's hands, just before Kemp laced a single to center." -Ken Tremendous
What about PEDs?
Beltre’s best seasons have been in contract years. I’d like to see him at 3B but giving him big money is too much of a risk… he could have been on HGH or something last season.
Speaking of big money…. when’s the last time the A’s signed or traded for an expensive player and didn’t get screwed?
Why would he be on HGH only in non-Seattle contract years?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:28 AM PST up reply actions
Olmedo Saenz 2.0
Is that what Encarnacion is? A power guy who can’t field or run, who fills in and pinch-hits?
I would love to have Adrian Beltre as a starter for the reasons folks have mentioned: he fills a need with his power, he plays great D, it weakens the Red Sox and Angels.
His inconsistency worries me a bit, but baseball (and life) require taking some risk. Do it Billy! Take a big chunk of that $25 mill in revenue sharing and get that guy!
He'd be a pretty expensive Tomato
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:29 AM PST up reply actions
According to MLBTR
The Red Sox have said that retaining Adrian Beltre is one of their top priorities this offseason, but a source tells Nick Cafardo of The Boston Globe that they will not offer him more than four years and $52MM. Abraham adds that they appear to have a similar limit with Victor Martinez.
by Pop N' Locktapus on Nov 17, 2010 12:11 AM PST reply actions
Would 4yr/56mil Get it done for us or do we have to beat the Sox offer by more?
by Pop N' Locktapus on Nov 17, 2010 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
I am not sure that we would have to beat that offer. It seems to me that Beltre doesn’t want to play in the AL East, i just get that feeling for some reason. I think we would have to much it. Additionally, it is apparent that the A’s really do WANT Beltre, now for the 2nd consecutive year, that could also mean something to him.
On the other side, is 52 million worth it for a guy that had one good season following two seasons in which he didnt even match is 2010 WAR total combined. This could be the ultimate buy high scenario, something a small market team really cannot afford to do. That said, all things equal he is an upgrade and would fit niceley in to create the best fielding infield in the American League
"He who lives on hope will die fasting" Benjamin Franklin was a fool
"If we are thinking playoffs, why not look towards the mountaintop"
I like my quote better
by nocal81(Vincent) on Nov 17, 2010 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
He'd also be a better #5 hitter than anyone else we have
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 17, 2010 3:30 AM PST up reply actions
Earlier in the thread I said I'd expect 2006-2008 Beltre
That seems to be his “regular” production (and he did it in Seattle, also a pitcher’s park). He was basically a 4 WAR player during that time.
A 4 WAR player is worth $13 mil per year.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:55 AM PST up reply actions
I think about everyone complaining...
… about the drag Chavez’s contract had on management’s ability to sign free agents. Then I think about management paying Beltre about a third again Chavez’s salary. Then I think about how bad Beltre’s offensive production might be in 2 or 3 years. Then my brain hurts from thinking too much.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
I actually think Chavez was a good gamble
That obviously didn’t work out. As far as FA gambles go, I think Beltre is a good one too. With the lack of 3B stars out there, someone might even want to take him off our hands in the final year of his contract, overpay and all. Of course yeah, if he gets an injury like Chavy we are SCREWED.
Braden threw a perfect game
And Beltre would be a 10% improvement over him in “Functional Toes and Testicles”. Think about it.
"Cry in Practice, Laugh in the Games"
- from a Japanese baseball clubhouse -
We don't mind suckin' on toes.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
Good luck finding a boyfriend who sucks toes
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
IF
we sign Beltre, do we just non tender Kouzmanoff and EE ?? Other teams would know Beane would have three 3Bman on the team and possibly not get anything for Kouz or E5…
Why would Beane sign him?
Every man for himself...
Are you saying Beane shouldn't sign Beltre because we might not get anything of value for Kouzmanoff and E5?
Leaving aside the fact that we can just not tender E5 a contract and we’re only out a few grand for picking him up on waivers…that’s gotta be the worst kind of decisionmaking process imaginable.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not against signing Beltre, but wish we could package Kouz and someone else before
we signed him, to ensure we got max value for those players. I don’t want to give those players away ALA Toronto.
Is there any mention of Conor Jackson playing 3B in a platoon situation?
I guess the real question is this; "What does Beane have in for E5? 3B? A 4th OF/DH platoon with Cust?
Every man for himself...
If we packaged Kouz with someone before we sign Beltre
and then we don’t sign Beltre, have fun watching Tolleson take over at 3rd…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
That's why I think Beane went out and got E5 and also has Rosales and Conor Jackson and Tolleson
and that’s in a worst case scenario!
Every man for himself...
I wouldn't mind seeing if Tolleson can hit, but that dude boots every difficult ball that's hit to him.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Having a surplus ain't ever been a bad thing
Beane will most likely trade one or both.
Beane could hold on to them all he wants, someone who will be in need or a cheaper 3Bman would eventually freak and offer more than their real value…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Nov 17, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Unless it's a surplus of the Incredible Hulk punching you in the face.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
Looks like we've started bidding at 5/45
Link: http://eldia.com.do/deportes/2010/11/16/38919/Atleticos-ofertan-45-millones-por-Beltre
And using google translate
The Oakland Athletics have the interest of keeping the free agent Adrian Beltre to replace the absence of the retired Eric Chavez.
According to a source, the A’s made a first offer of $ 45 million over five years, which is being evaluated by the agent Scott Boras, who represents Beltre.
That offer would generate nine million dollars annually, but Boras is seeking a deal in excess of ten million.
“I would say that in my years of doing this had never seen so much interest in a player,” Boras said, adding: "I’m not sure that the media did understand quite what Adrian Beltre to Boston, but I think in your address the only thing that helped him emerge in his career, "he said.
Boras compared the talent of Beltre at third base with members of the Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt, George Brett and Paul Molitor.
Other teams interested in Beltre are the Angels, San Francisco Giants and Boston.
The A’s failed to keep Beltre last year, when Boston paid a better price.
But this time the Oakland general manager Billy Beane, is more aggressive, since it has the freedom to increase the team’s payroll from 60 to 70 million next year.
Levy raised
Beltre took advantage of his stay last season with Boston, where he hit .321 with 28 homers, 102 RBIs and 49 doubles, the highest total of his career.
Also had 79 extra-base hits, with the best production for a third baseman in the majors.
Beltre was ranked among the top five best hitters in the AL in batting, hits, total bases, slugging and multiple-hit games.
This great production earned him to be elected as a Silver Slugger winner at third base, also Gold Glove
Love the aggressiveness of this offer. Of course it’s not going to get it done, but nice to see we’re getting out there!
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
5 years though?
I mean, it’s not ARod money and age, but Beltre’s effectiveness as a 3Bman will likely be severely diminished by then.
I have NO rooting interest. It simply become[s] a process of elimination of who I dislike less. - 67MARQUEZ
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Nov 17, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
Google Translations are like watching
That’s good news that we’re definitely making a serious offer, but that’s not even as good as what the BoSox offered, is it? I hope Billy is willing to go to 5/70 if need be.
By the way, I love the honesty of the Spanish-language journalists: “This great [offensive] production earned him…Gold Glove.”
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Now ESPN Deportes says its 5/64
According to mlb trade rumors. Just under $13 mil a year averaged out. I’d love it. I’ll take that 5th year of diminished production for 3 good ones and an okay one. Especially if 4 years from now we are entering into the next rebuilding phase. Even if we don’t get him, I’d like to at least drive up the bidding as high as possible because I hate him going to the Angels.
Where is the value?
I know there is a lot of push to sign Beltre, but is he really worth the payroll it would take to get him here? IF our need is a power hitter, then compare his 162 game stats with Kouz. Beltre’s average is 25HRs/89RBIs, while Kouz averages 21HRs/89RBIs. Is a 4 HR increase worth the $10M increase in salary? Or should we stick with Kouz at $4-6M, and spend the $10M on a SECOND power bat? I don’t see how Beltre is a serious improvement for the cost. Keep Kouz and get a DH
Beltre is definitely better than Kouz on offense and defense
And 3B is a difficult position to upgrade at later on just because there aren’t enough star 3B to go around. If we got that other “$10 mil… power bat” it would have to be a COF and other than Werth or some sort of Fuckin’ A trade, I don’t see who that would be for us this offseason. Plus we don’t have a real solid 3B prospect in the system close to ready. AND I personally am more optimistic than I think many about Carter’s chance to have success in LF next year. I’d be disappointed if he didn’t earn himself a spot by the end of 2011, and it probly won’t be at DH (Cust). How about a lineup with Beltre, Cust, and DeJesus in the middle of it (not necessarily in that order). Not the best by a longshot but better than anything we’ve put on the field in years, ESPECIALLY if Carter pans out.
Our need is not power. Our need is a good hitter who plays exceptional defense.
Adrian Beltre is a good hitter who plays exceptional defense. Also, RBIs are a meaningless stat, and nobody’s going to hit that many HRs in the Coliseum anyway. And we have a DH. His name is The Best Hitter On Our Team Not Named Daric Barton.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
Are you familiar with WAR?
Even if you throw out Beltre’s anomalous super-contract seasons he’s averaged a 3.4 WAR per season for his entire career. Read: he’s a 12 million dollar per year player even without his upside. Add his upside back in, which we should all be doing from the get go anyway, and he’s averaged 4.2 WAR seasonally.
He’s absolutely worth a 5 × 13 million dollar deal, even in decline, which he clearly isn’t yet. He’s the kind of addition that can push this team into legitimate contention, end of story.
Do you best? I put insect voices! (Laughs) (laughs)
by sleepingcobra on Nov 17, 2010 2:06 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Oops!
My bad. I thought games where won and lost by runs scored. Now I see that its the various stats that mean absolutely nothing( other than in fantasy leagues), is what win games, Come to think about it, Texas ACTUALLY won the WS, because THEIR WAR was better. This sounds just like when we traded CarGo for Holliday.
Sorry
I’m not trying to pick a fight, its just that all I care about is that the A’s win games. For the last few years, all anyone has talked about is how strapped the A’s payroll is. Even if Lew and BB increase payroll this year, Is this the BEST way to spend it? Not in my book. There is NO WAY Beltre is worth 3x Kouz. I would rather see us go after MORE power hitters, than swap power hitters. I believe that Kouz will improve if surrounded by other power hitters, which would be way better than leaving Beltre out there by himself.
AND...
I am NOT saying that Beltre isn’t WORTH the money he is going to get. I am saying that it won’t be the most efficient way for the A’s to improve the team.
This is actually possible
But why do you say that? What’s a more efficient way? What do you suggest?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
If you care about the A's winning ames and want to discuss how they can best do that
The stats you’re choosing to ignore, you know, need to be part of the conversation since they’ve been proven to tell you who’s good at baseball (and how much they should be paid).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
While it's true that Beltre is not as good as 3 Kouzmanoffs
You can only have 9 guys on the field at a time. Beltre’s WAR has been inconsistent over his career, but Kouz’s has been pretty consistent, and if you average out both players last 3 years, Beltre appears to be ROUGHLY twice as good. And you’re simply going to have to pay more than twice as much for that. Which actually makes economic sense when working with the limitation that only 9 guys can play at a time. I like Kouz but replacing two current players in our lineup with two more Kouz’s would not significantly improve our team.
No, no, what wins games is stats that mean absolutely everything.
Like wOBA.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
WAR is based on RAR
RAR = RUNS above replacement. So it’s based on how many more runs Beltre is worth more than Kouzmanoff (answer: quite a few)
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
Um, isn't runs scored a common fantasy stat?
I don’t play fantasy baseball almost entirely because the stats they use to determine how good a player is rarely correlate with how good a player actually is.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Nov 17, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
how does one score a run? i mean that seriously. what goes into a scoring runs as a team?
i think you’ll find that wOBA captures those items with predictive value vs RBIs or something silly like that.
Dude, come off it.
You don’t understand statistics, that’s fine. But your argumentative ground is in anti-evolution/anti-global warming territory here.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 17, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
You just insinuated that agreeing with anti-evolution/anti-global warming theories makes your argument baseless
I happen to agree with the first one. I don’t really appreciate being told my belief is a baseless argument and consider that a religious topic.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
It's not
It’s a truth topic.
It’s not his responsibility, or anyone else’s, to pretend that your choice to believe something false is anything other than what it is.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Evolution isn't a religion, nor is it a religious subject, nor is it incompatible with any religion that currently exists or has ever existed.
Religion is philosophy. Evolution is biology. There’s no overlap.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
The point isn't whether or not it's true,
it’s whether or not the comment could be seen as offensive. I’d love to explain why the belief in the theory of evolution has religious aspects, but I cannot because that’s a CGV. I cannot defend my viewpoint on this topic because it goes in a clearly religious direction, and thus the comment offends me because I’m forced to either just sit here and deal with it or just say “that offends me”. I’m not looking to start any fights or anything; all I’m trying to do is convey that I didn’t think that comment was appropriate and wanted it to stop there before it went any further.
Evolution may be biology, but the other main theory is a religious one, and your comment clearly insinuates that people who believe in an alternate theory believe in a baseless theory.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 18, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
Well...there isn't an alternate theory.
There is only one theory in all of biology. There is no other competing theory. Religious fables for the genesis of life are not theories. They are religious matters. I do not understand why, in a year that starts with a two, some people still insist on trying to drag religion into the scientific discussion. Have we not learned that they are two separate things that don’t need to be mixed? Have we not learned that nothing good ever comes of it? Why would you drag religion into a setting which didn’t call for it? My bringing up the scientific reality of evolution does not in any way call into question the truth or wisdom of your religious beliefs. I don’t appreciate you suggesting that it does.
This is a baseball blog, but conversations on occasion veer briefly into art, into literature, into pop culture, into math, into science. At what point can I stop censoring science on the off-chance that someone with a fringe belief will get offended? Can I say that the Earth is billions of years old, or should I not say that because there might be someone who thinks it’s only a few thousand years old (as per a literalistic interpretation of the Old Testament)?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
This
the scientific reality of evolution
…is a theory. It is NOT a fact. This next part I am posting in block quotes might be a CGV, but it’s not fair for me not to be able to post it as a defense to my position here, so I’m posting it anyway:
There is plenty of literature from scientists that suggests that divine creation is a plausible SCIENTIFIC explanation for the genesis of the universe. Science does NOT exclude the possibility of a creator.
If you’re trying to call his argument baseless, why not use an analogy that there’s zero chance of offending people with? That’s all I ever wanted. I didn’t intend to start a debate about the issue itself; I simply wanted to point out that I thought the analogy was a poor choice of words and wanted to point it out without turning this into a huge problem.
I don’t wish to have a religious discussion on this board, but I don’t see why I should be expected to ignore something that offends me, however little it does offend me. This board had a long discussion in another thread about how Coco Crisp’s “no homo” comment was meant to be taken a certain way; however, some people interpreted it a different way and were offended. How is this different?
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 18, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
.
…is a theory. It is NOT a fact. This next part I am posting in block quotes might be a CGV, but it’s not fair for me not to be able to post it as a defense to my position here, so I’m posting it anyway:
I’ll never forgive the English language gods for making the word “theory” have two different definitions that mean entirely different things.
Hey Gravity theories aren't facts and aren't real, now stop pulling on my legs!
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Nov 18, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
For the record
I don’t have a problem with you and I didn’t want to start anything, I just wanted to inform you that I was offended by the analogy. I thought that would be the best way to approach it.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 18, 2010 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry that it offends you,
but the legitimate scientific community is in virtual 100% agreement on the question of evolution, and I only say “virtual” because nothing is ever absolutely true. I’m not trying to impugn your character, but not believing in evolution is on the same level as not believing in gravity. I mean that literally; gravity is also a “theory.”
If you want to believe in the Judeo-Christian Creation story as a religious/philosophical point, I have no problem with it. And you’re right when you say that science doesn’t preclude a creator, but that’s because metaphysical questions are not what science deals with. Science doesn’t preclude God in any way, because God cannot be proven or disproven. This is why I’m so frustrated that so many religious people keep trying to pick a fight with science. There are different kinds of truth, the objective and the subjective, the physical and the metaphysical. The objective, physical truth of life on Earth is evolution. The subjective, metaphysical truth of life on Earth is an open question, and everyone is entitled to their opinion/belief on that subject. But the two are as unrelated and non-competing as “What’s your favorite color?” and “What kind of tree do apples grow on?”
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
It's why I've soured on fantasy baseball.
In theory, it should be a lot of fun for hardcore baseball nerds like us, but I’ve spent so much time learning and playing with “actual value” that it’s jarring and annoying when “actual value” doesn’t equal “fantasy value”.
That's part of the learning process.
Which is great. Unfortunately, fantasy isn’t quite up to speed.
My bad, too.
Adrian Beltre has scored an average of 75 runs every season and knocked in an average of 83.3 RBI. Since we don’t have any other data and I have no idea how much those things are worth in dollars when evaluating what to pay a free agent, I, uh… so… hey how ‘bout that iPad? Wild stuff, that technology. What’s your take?
Do you best? I put insect voices! (Laughs) (laughs)
by sleepingcobra on Nov 17, 2010 5:52 PM PST up reply actions
see...
what you don’t understand is that progress has been made in nearly every human endeavor. science, medicine, arts, music, food, etc… but we must evaluate baseball the same way we did 50 and 100 years ago.
that is all
Really?
Beltre has driven in less than 80 run in 40% or his seasons, while Kouz only twice. Kouz has never driven in less than 71. while Beltre has done it 4 times. Guys, I’m not saying that Beltre is worse than Kouz. I just feel that we can improve the team in other areas and at a cheaper price.
rbi is a team stat. it requires a success rate and a number of opportunities. your number doesn't tell me anything.
what’s better a guy that gets an opportunity to drive in 50 runs and drives them all in or a guy that drives in 100 of 1000 possible runs?
100 IS BIGGER THAN 50
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
BROSIUSLINE
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Nov 18, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
you've said that we can improve the team in other areas, but haven't cited a single player, position or deal that gets it done.
we may not agree with how you argue your points but complete your point.
No problem
How about going after a more power hitting corner OF, like Justin Upton instead of DeJesus?
Nobody is disagreeing that we should go after Upton
Going after Upton doesn’t prevent us from signing Beltre, though.
Fantasy Sports Columnist for Big Cat Country
by CaliforniaJag on Nov 17, 2010 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
dejesus was acquisible w/o having to gut the minor league and major league roster. to get justin upton, we'd have to give up players that would be essential for a playoff run in 2010-2013
show me how we do it and i’ll go along. but i don’t think you can do it without giving up some combination of anderson, cahill, carter, cardenas, green, etc…
here's a fangraphs article on trading for justin upton...
not gonna come cheap. perhaps we should focus on a plan b.
Smell ya later Rajai
Actually I will miss him. He was an exciting player to watch play, bad instincts and all. I liked the idea of him as a 4th or 5th OF because of the versatility it would give us off the bench.
We used to make fun of the Mariners
For overpaying Beltre. And now the A’s will give him the same deal, seven years later??
He’s had a +3 WAR three times in his career. Twice, it was in contract years. He’s the NBA version of Tim Thomas.
I hate, hate, hate this deal.
Nobody expects some kind of obscure Monty Python allusion.
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Nov 17, 2010 8:15 PM PST reply actions
Check that
+4 WAR three times. But still.
Nobody expects some kind of obscure Monty Python allusion.
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Nov 17, 2010 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
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