Zito, Hudson, Blanton and Harden get ready for Postseason
Well, I didn't want to make the title too long, but I wanted to write, "Zito, Hudson, Blanton, Harang, Harden, Jose Guillen, Santiago Casilla, Nick Swisher, Carlos Pena, Ramon Hernandez and Arthur Rhodes get ready for Postseason."
Of that whole list, the only one of them not still an A's guy in my heart is Rhodes.
I'm sure I missed a few, but my point is that is a lot of talent in the league the A's had and don't have anymore. And my premise is although I love this year's team, I can't help but feel like we lose too many good players. When I see Esteban German playing on the Royals or Bobby Crosby on the Pirates it doesn't bother me so much, but when all this talent is going to the playoffs, I can't help but play what if? What if there was some sort of salary cap? What if we had a slightly different arrangement with the free agent rules? I really can't be critical of Billy Beane, can I? I truly believe he gathers all the data he can to put the best possible team he can on the field every year. I moved to the Bay Area in 2000, and didn't really understand how superior the A's are to the Giants until about July. It took me a while to understand their greatness. And I understand that the A's are going to move players, that's what they do. The team is not about sentimentality, it is about maximizing wins and minimizing cost and there really aren't any other metrics, and I appreciate that. I just thought the A's would be above average in wins and below average in payroll forever, but it only lasted from 1999 to 2006. Well this year they were average, and clearly only a bat or 2 from being a lot better.
Today was the most entertaining Giants game I have ever watched. I thought, "I better start watching, maybe I'll get a chance to go to the World Series and I better know who these guys are." In this game the Padres had Stairs, Tejada, and Denorfia. 3 more A's guys who were playing for something on the last day of the season. And when I saw Casilla's record, and his fastball I thought, "how did we lose THIS guy?" I was still flipping over to see Braden pitch and Ichiro bat, and my wife yelled at me when I missed the Giants pitcher hit a triple. I AM getting a tiny bit excited about the Giants, but my heart is not really in it. I'll watch and I'll root for them, but it won't be the same as A's playoff baseball.
The only playoff team without a former A's player I could find is the Twins. That's not so surprising, the Twins are more of a home grown team like the A's are. Ironically they might be my favorite postseason team. But mostly I will just root for the Yankees to lose.
But the A's are done, and it is a sad day. Wait til next year, the A's appear to be about 2 players from being completely rebuilt, and it will be BAD NEWS FOR THE AMERICAN LEAGUE.
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Wow! Where to begin?
Perhaps you’re trying to be provocative, but you have hit all the wrong buttons on this.
Zito, and his $127 zillion contract, are going to the playoffs only because Zito plays on the same team as Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, and Buster Posey. I mean, really, look at the Padres and the Giants. How many of their players couldn’t cut it in the American League anymore?
Tim Hudson forced his exodus from the A’s with his “Sign me before the start of the season, or I’ll walk” demands. Even so, the Braves barely made the playoffs out of the moribund NL East for the first time since 2005. (The A’s went to the playoffs in 2006.)
Joe Blanton happens to be on the same team as…well, just look at the Phillies lineup and tell me why he shouldn’t be in the playoffs.
Rich Harden is going to the playoffs because he plays on the same team as Josh Hamilton, Vladimir Guererro, Michael Young, Cliff Lee and those other guys. Have you seen Harden pitch lately?
Guillen? The Giants fans want to banish him from the team. Swisher? Ever heard of the NY Yankees? They may have had something to do with his playoff participation. Pena got cut by everybody before landing in Tampa where he has the good fortune to play with Evan Longoria, Carl Crawford, David Price, et al. Casilla? Hernandez? Rhodes? Are you serious?
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. - Mark Twain
by ptbarnum on Oct 3, 2010 9:19 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree with your points... for the most part.
However, many of these players mentioned did contribute to their team’s success in some positive manner. It’s not like they were all riding the bench and hanging on the fringes of their rosters.
What your point really says, as I interpret it, is that baseball is more of a team game than many other sports where one or two players can make a significant difference (in the regular season). Baseball post-season is where a couple hot players are more likely to have a significant positive impact.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen.
~Bob Lemon, 1981
it's odd...
I thought Barry Zito just gave up 4 runs in 3 innings with a playoff spot on the line. Must have been an alternate universe.. Oh, wait…
Nope, that's classic zito
tons of walks, or brilliance.
He’ll do better in the playoffs, unless his shrink is a bum.
if he's even on the playoff roster. it's not like he actually deserves to be but I don't foresee him getting left off.
"The two of them deserve each other. One's a born liar, the other's convicted."
I had a friend claim that the A's pitchers were not even close to the Giants
When I claimed that the A’s had to pitch to DH’s, he went into the anti-DH rant.
Thought Zito was better than, dunno, Brett Anderson or some such.
Can’t with that logic, or lack there of.
Funny in that those two teams finished, I believe, with the two best starter ERAs in the bigs
Not that ERA is the end-all, be-all of course, but they were still the top.
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I tried to argue him out of ERA
say why it’s so sucky ( arbitrary based on what’s an Error, value of defense, depends on what relief staff can do..)
Didn’t get far – but I don’t value him for his statistical acumen.
The A's pitchers ARE not nearly as good as the Giants
although both are benefitting from very good defense. By FIP the best pitching staffs are Chicago and Colorado.
Zito’s not better than Anderson, but that’s a ridiculous comparison. He’s the worst starter on their team, Anderson’s the best on the A’s.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
A true Athletic?
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
You lost me at getting excited about the Giants
I was trying to explain this to one of my employees today who could not understand it. I asked him what his favorite football team was, to which he excitedly answered the 49ers. I asked him what the odds were of him gonig to go watch a Raider game. Then he understood.
I'm here to talk about Don
Could not agree more
I won’t be happy until the Giants exit the playoffs
Drink what you know, drink regularly rather than in binges, avoid needlessly exotic booze, and leave the table while you can still stand.
by oakAK on Oct 4, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My step-dad
has been an A’s fan for longer than I’ve been alive. He came home after the Raiders game and said they lost but at least the Giants went to the play-offs…I could have cried.
"You ain't got nothin to say, it was perfect" -Dallas Braden, 05/09/10
zito may not even be on the roster
and if he is it’ll be as a long reliever. he doesn’t have a whole lot of getting ready to do.
Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.
Want to know why I'm not excited for the Giants?
[…] but my heart is not really in it.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
I promise you there was more to that post...I don't know what the hell hapened to it though.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
Don't make lighthearted jokes about the Giants empty trophy case to their fans.
They lose their shit, insult Oakland’s history, and say that the Giants have more of a history and star-power than the A’s ever did.
They also make fun of the A’s for steroid use and their only accomplishment being three consecutive World Series. I wonder happened to ’89…
I saved the shit out of that conversation…too good to be true.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
this post has so many grounds for reporting for trolling
i dont even know where to start wasting my time replying to it.
What does the phrase "reporting for trolling" mean?
by barryzitoforever on Oct 5, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Insta-ban instead of a strike
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Weird, players get traded or sign with different teams.
I bet there are no former players from other teams on any postseason teams.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
22 former A's on 8 teams?
Ok show me how wrong I am and show me the OTHER teams with 22 former players going to the playoffs from it. Even if the A’s don’t lead the league in “former players going to the playoffs” and I contend that they do, it might be worth noting that they would be high in that category, or if not please forgive me for wasting your time pointing it out, you must be very busy with the important work of commenting on much more insightful posts.
by barryzitoforever on Oct 5, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
It really doesn't matter
Only a small portion of those players are really key pieces of their team. The rest are mainly filler, help that can be easily replaced. This year they just happened to be on playoff teams.
I don’t have handy the full playoff rosters from the teams that made it last year but I believe there were only 13 former A’s that actually played in any of the games and a couple (Gaudin, Hinske) only appeared once or twice.
They were Damon, Swisher, Gaudin, Hinske (NYY), Cabrera, Mahay (MIN), Stairs, Blanton (PHI), Holliday (STL), Ethier (LAD), Gonzalez, Street, Giambi (COL). I didn’t notice anyone on BOS or LAA. So there, it’s basically 6.5% of the postseason rosters in 2009 made up of former A’s (or people in the system) compared to 11% this year.
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Good lord.
Excuse me for not caring that Santiago “I couldn’t throw a strike before this year” Casilla or Orlando “Our current SS is way better” Cabrera or Jared “he was a September callup so he shouldn’t be on this list anyways” Burton.
Ok, I’ll stop being an asshole. The real reason I don’t care that a lot of former A’s are in the playoffs is that these aren’t important guys. There are many, many reasons for them not being on the team. Both Swisher and Blanton netted us great trades. Casilla might be good now, but there’s no guarantee he’d have been half of what he’s been this year if he was still on the A’s. Throw on top of that the fact that he’s a relief pitcher, inherently having little value, and I care less. You put those 22 guys on a team (filling in holes) and they win 70 games. Few of those guys would be answers for this team, and I think it’s foolish to think, because of the sheer number of former A’s in the playoffs, that these were personnel mistakes.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
I find the degree to which commenters in this thread
are bent of out shape regarding your post to be highly amusing. The truth hurts, I guess. We root for a team that gets rid of its best players routinely, by design. That can get depressing at this time of year.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Oct 4, 2010 6:55 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
So the A's miss Santiago Casilla?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Oct 4, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
So does Santiago
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
Santiago doesn't miss anything...
…he was killed when Downey and Dawson carried out the code red that Jessup and Kendrick ordered.
by LowcountryJoe on Oct 5, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
The good one would be useful.
There are certainly details in his post that are off base, but the general notion of it isn’t.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Except that's only partially the case here
The A’s had reasons for getting rid of every single person on this guy’s list, and only a portion of them could be legitimately said to have been a key part of their teams making the postseason. The truth of it is you can look all over the league and find people from other teams that didn’t make it, and in some cases those players helped a lot and in others they were fortunate to be on the right teams at the right times.
This whole post comes off as a “Gee, where would we be if we still had all those guys?” kind of thing and assumes incorrectly that we’d be in the playoffs right now with them. What it doesn’t do is acknowledge the moves made around them that have helped us get some of the people we do have now that will be key in helping us get back to the playoffs very soon.
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If "If's and But's" were candy and nuts we would all be happy squirrels...or would we?
If we still had those pitchers, our pitching staff would not have been dominant.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Oct 4, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
THe reason for getting rid of many, if not all
of the guys on his list is that they would cost too much money to keep during their FA-eligible years. The A’s have certainly done a good job of getting useful returns on those players before they left town, but it remains that they left town because the A’s couldn’t afford to keep them.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Doesn't acknowledge the moves made?
I guess you didn’t make it to the last line of this terrible post where I looked forward to winning the West next year. Read again, I never said I wanted all the guys back, just that when I see them I remember them on the A’s. I don’t turn my allegiance against a player instantly once he changes teams, I’m surprised people do that. Do people go: “I love Swisher, he’s an A!” Then he is traded, and one second later go, “I hate Swisher, he is a Yankee?” What exactly did Swisher himself do to change your feelings about him? I don’t think I could ever hate that guy.
by barryzitoforever on Oct 5, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I miss Huddy
just because I liked his attitude. I’m glad he came back so well from his surgery, but can you imagine the outcry if we had re-signed him after his injury history and then lost his services for almost an entire season?
Might have been nice to keep Carlos Gonzalez, though. Or Andre Ethier. Or both.
"If you make up your mind not to be happy, there's no reason why you shouldn't have a fairly good time." -Edith Wharton (The Last Asset)
by Oakville Athletic on Oct 4, 2010 9:04 AM PDT reply actions
...but nobody's listening.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen.
~Bob Lemon, 1981
Dan. Johnson.
I think I will go ghostride my volvo now.
I'm here to talk about Don
by OptimistPrime on Oct 4, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Can you really fault the organization
For DFAing a guy who self admittedly rubbed sun block in his eyes and played through a few months of self induced double vision. He even played horrible for the Yokohama Bay stars. I did enjoy the guy when he came up with Cust. I foolishly thought he would way outshine Cust with a MLB career. Anyone who waxes poetic about bonding with his teammate Buck over Yoga sessions together has a fondness in my heart…..Even if they can’t apply sunscreen correctly…..
I'm not throwing fault around anywhere
Just someone else who played here that’s on a playoff team right now, since the poster saw fit to bring it up.
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In this case, no
The poster just has a history of writing things but not commenting on the site. There were a few good posts in the past.
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Are you talking to me in this post?
If you are, I don’t understand. I have commented before, but usually the short one line comments I find to be tricky to figure out what is meant. The comments are sort of like facebook status, maybe too short to have a lot of meaning.
by barryzitoforever on Oct 5, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
And I meant exactly what I said. You have more posts here than you do comments, and when some people see that they assume trollish behavior.
Most of us have a much, much higher ratio of comments to posts.
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A minimum comment to fp ratio wouldn't be the worst thing ever.
Although certainly a little problematic.
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
So here's the list. Who am I missing?
Dan Johnson
Carlos Pena
Chad Gaudin
Nick Swisher
Ron Mahay
Rich Harden
Colby Lewis
Esteban German
Nelson Cruz
Joe Blanton
Mike Sweeney
Tim Hudson
Brooks Conrad
Eric Hinske
Aaron Harang
Jared Burton
Arthur Rhodes
Ramon Hernandez
Orlando Cabrera
Barry Zito
Santiago Casilla
Jose Guillen
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There are three, maybe four players on that list that I would actually like to have on the A's.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Oct 4, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Pretty much. I don't know if I'd rather have Harang or Lewis.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Oct 4, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Pena?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Yeah, after you get past a few of them there isn't much left over
Let’s not pretend that these guys put together are playoff material.
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Mike Sweeney
I’m glad he’s going to the postseason for the first time in his career.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Oct 4, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
He's a good guy. He deserves it.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen.
~Bob Lemon, 1981
Mike Sweeney's on a playoff team?
Huh. I guess I thought he retired or something.
I don’t know who Jared Burton is.
Part of me still misses Rrrramon.
And I hope Arthur Rhodes gives up a walk-off homer to lose one of the games.
Was Jared Burton one of the arms the A's gave up to get Denorfia, or was that a separate trade?
I know Marcus McBeth was one of the two, but I can’t remember the other one.
No, I think Burton was a Rule 5 pick. Must have been someone else.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Rule 5, yes
Highest Burton made it here was Midland, but I recognized his name on the Reds roster. Was wondering who’d ask about him here.
McBeth and Ben Jukich (yes, I did have to look) were involved in the Denorfia deal.
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Jeez
The A’s clearly got the better of that trade… just didn’t wait around long enough for it to show, I guess.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I miss Ramon, too.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen.
~Bob Lemon, 1981
22 fomer A's are going to the playoffs?
Some might be hurt, some might be left off the roster, my point of this post wasn’t so much that I wanted them all back, just that the A’s have signed a lot of talent over the years, and later lost a lot of talent.
Billy Beane seems to agree with me in this quote from Oaklandathletics.com:
“I think it will allow us to start to plan around some of these guys here from a long-term standpoint. Hopefully, it’s not a revolving door, like it’s been the last decade. Hopefully, we could do some long-term planning, which we really haven’t been able to do. I think it would be pretty invigorating for everybody involved, and I think everybody would sort of be relieved having a direction for the franchise.”
by barryzitoforever on Oct 5, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to post this:
Maybe Zito won’t be pitching in the postseason.
Needs moar dingerz and moar Josh Donaldson.
That would surprise me, but if they're going with a 3-man rotation, they don't need two starters in the bullpen
Especially not two lefthanded starters.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Meanwhile, in other former A's-related news...
Murton breaks Ichiro’s Japan hits record
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen.
~Bob Lemon, 1981
too bad our current rotation isn't as talented or as inexpensive as those four pitchers...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
One thing about trading players all the time
I’m almost certain there’s a direct correlation to how often the A’s trade good players (or the perception thereof) and the low attendance at the Coliseum. I proudly and frequently wear an A’s cap and I can’t tell you how often someone – often a young guy, often from the neighborhood – will ask me, “you like the A’s?”
I say, “hell yea. You?”
he says, “nah, I don’t like how they always trade their best players. I’m for the Giants”
I go into the obligatory attempt to explain how the A’s have a limited payroll, impacted by the clunky Coliseum, and therefore can’t afford to sign their top players as free agents, but it doesn’t matter. It’s the perception that prevails – the A’s trade away all the good players and replace them with nobodies. And when those nobodies become good, they get traded for nobodies. Rinse, repeat. This is the perception among casual fans.
re: trading players all the time
“the A’s trade away all the good players and replace them with nobodies”…
This is not just perception of casual fans, this is the perception of Billy Beane, who I quoted in another comment. It is reality. We A’s fans have just learned to love the team in spite of this reality. There is inherent pain in being an A’s fan, but there is pain in being a fan of any team, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
by barryzitoforever on Oct 6, 2010 9:02 AM PDT reply actions
Apparently Harden is not ready for the postseason
He’s off their roster and has been DFA’d.
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