Current State of the Roster
by notsellingjeans on Jan 9, 2010 7:48 PM PST
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PrintWith Adrian Beltre off the board, Aroldis Chapman soon to follow, and the payroll sitting at ~$50Mish, I think there's a chance that the 2010 A's are close to being a finished product.
Let's take a look at what they have:
The 40-man roster currently has 22 pitchers and 18 position players. I spent some time researching the options status of several guys and decided to make some predictions.
22 pitchers
60-Day DL: Outman
9 pitchers optioned down: Mazzaro, Souza, H-Rod, Mortensen, Kilby, Figuroa, DLS, Blevins, Meloan (I was pleased to learn that Blevins and Meloan still have one option year remaining).
11-man pitching staff: Braden, Duke, Anderson, Gio Gonzalez, Eveland; Bailey, Devine, Wuertz, Ziegler, Cassevah, Breslow (Cassevah makes it as a Rule 5 pick, while Breslow and Eveland are out of options).
The Wild Card: Cahill. I'd prefer to add him to the "optioned" list, preserving an additional year of cost control for the A's (2015). In this scenario, Eveland becomes the team's fifth starter to open the year, and gets one last shot - 5-10 starts - to establish himself. Perhaps more realistic is that Cahill is the No. 4 starter, the team goes with a 12-man staff, and Eveland becomes the mop-up man out out the bullpen. I don't prefer this option, in part because of Cahill's service time, and because I'm excited by the additional bench flexibility on offense that an 11-man pitching staff would afford.
18 hitters
Optioned down: Petit, Cunningham, Buck, Carter
Starting 9: Cust, Suzuki, Barton, Ellis, Pennington, McPhavez*, Crisp, Davis, Sweeney
Bench (5 players, instead of the typical 4): Powell, Hairston, Patterson, Miles, Fox
*Hopefully either McPherson or Chavez is healthy enough to man third base half the time.
Why I would like the five-man bench for Opening-Day 2010:
The simple answer is that I think it gives the A's a better chance at having a league-average offense.
I could see the 2010 A's actually using a bench in games, in a way that AL teams often don't. On days when Hairston, Cust, McPhavez, or Fox don't start, they represent great pinch-hitting options against opposite-handed pitching. Patterson provides great speed off the bench.
I view Patterson as the "25th man," who might actually find his way into nearly every game as a pinch-runner in place of Powell, Fox, Cust, Chavez, or McPherson. Like Breslow and Eveland, Patterson is also out of options, and I'd rather not lose him.
Miles is the necessary evil - the backup shortstop that every team needs. I hope he will play very minimally, and that Pennington gets to play every day for the first few months. I would even rather that Mark Ellis' off days went to Patterson rather than Miles.
Fox has an option remaining, but he's at an age where an additional year of AAA wouldn't help him and there's a DH logjam there, anyway. What appeals to me is that Fox and Hairston ensure that there will be two guys who really punish lefties in the middle of the order when the A's face a southpaw. I love Fox's flexibility, although I don't expect him to see any time in the outfield. He could spell Barton against tough lefties, and start the majority of the games at third base when McPherson/Chavez are predictably too sore to be everyday players.
Hairston is an outstanding fourth outfielder, which is basically an everyday job on the A's.
On the other hand...
The fly in the ointment is that the team plays 10 consecutive games to open the season, meaning that the 5th starter won't be skipped. Can the team survive 10 games in 10 days with an 11-man staff and Dana Eveland as the 5th starter? I think they can, especially since the first four relievers are so damn good, and everyone will be fresh to open the year.
With Adrian Beltre off the board, Aroldis Chapman apparently on his way to either Toronto or Anaheim for ~$23M, and no other free-agent pieces I'm attracted to, the 25-man roster I've shown above is how I hope the team opens the year. It preserves the service time of Cahill and Mazzaro, gives the offense a nice boost with versatility, and gives Breslow, Eveland, Cassevah, and Patterson a chance to establish value and become worthwhile assets for the A's instead of being lost for nothing.
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I would like to see them add Khalil Greene for 3rd
Cheap option when Chavez goes down in ST. Could be a comeback guy cheaply
No trades?
A’s seems on a mission to fill that utility role or 3b/SS combo with someone that doesnt currently exist on their roster. As a result, some interest in jerry hairston, tejada’s agent contacting the A’s, or Olney’s mention of Khalil Greene. A trade seems more likely, but the laroche and headley asking price seems high. Settling for Kouzmanoff, Padres would be forced to putting Headley and Blanks in their OF (maybe worst defensive OF in mlb) and have 3b prospects Forsythe and Darnell not far behind. Their 3b depth situation is like the A’s multiple OF options. Royals also are apparently choosing Getz for their 2b job, which pushes Callaspo out of a starting spot.
I'd still love Callaspo. Maybe the talks rekindle.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Does he still beat his wife?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 9, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
Depends on if she's done the dishes
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Jan 9, 2010 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
what kind of person would rec this?
by stormtown on Jan 10, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
one that doesn't have to be told twice.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Jan 10, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
people light hearted enough to make fun of everything
even if it’s “taboo”
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
oh I can certainly see why someone who fancied himself edgy would try to make a joke about wife beating
I’m just trying to figure out what kind of douche recommends it. Nico’s post was funny (and also about wife beating), nobody rec’d that.
Nico's was cute
mikev’s was funny. Someone who likes the funny would presumably recommend it. Douche or not.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
What did I say?
All I see is “I’d still love Callaspo.” Maybe that has multiple meanings.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
not that I care to explain myself
but I don’t “fancy myself edgy” one bit.
I’ll poke fun at anything. Myself, other people, situations, baseball stuff, Nico, anything.
Life is too damn short to get uptight about everything.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Unless she doesn't do the dishes.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
by danmerqury on Jan 11, 2010 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
That's a spectacular point, actually.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Making a joke about something does not mean you find the ACTUAL THING funny/not a serious problem/whatever
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, while Cust just stands there and Crosby tries and misses.
That’s why I want him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wow, having Cust, Barton, Sweeney, and Crisp in the lineup makes for one boring lineup. Folks, many low scoring games ahead, hopefully the pitching staff can pitch shutouts.
Not so much different than other previous lineups
Last season people bought into the hype of a perfectly healthy and optimistic offense.Instead we got the old and declining corpses of giambi, cabrera, chavez, etc. Lots of name power, terrible results. Its obvious even with resigning of cust, it’ll be focused on a speed, defense, and contact team for the most part. I see lots of versatility and being able to mix and match various lineup combinations. Of course, mr genius geren will be controlling this, so thats the downside.
Hm, I don't find low scoring games boring, tbh.
I mean, so long as both sides are low scoring
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
by bobnothing on Jan 10, 2010 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
't funny but
I recommented instead of doing plus one as to not clutter
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Oh, Ed, I forgot to ask earlier
What booth are you going to be at at PI/PS Day?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Up in Criminal.
I don’t want to say the name, cuz of searches. email me a at
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
What's funny is that you then took two posts to explain it. If that was intentional, well done!
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Why the fuck is Dana Eveland on your roster?
Mazzaro pitched quite well for Sacramento last year, service time isn’t an issue yet you’re optioning him down to AAA to keep Dana “Got his ass kicked in AAA lat year” Eveland on the Oakland roster. Are we really going to be heart broken if some other team claims him because he’s out of options?
HELL NO.
Now, I understand wanting to go with 11 pitchers so you can keep Patterson. I don’t think that’s going to happen but the reasoning is sound enough. What I don’t get is why you’d commit 1 of those 11 spots to Cassevah. Sure, he’s a Rule 5 pick and he has to be offered back to the Angels if he doesn’t make the 25 man roster but is that really justification enough to send one of Meloan, Kilby or Blevins down… guys who are probably better pitchers? Keeping Cassevah is (at pre-ST) essentially giving the A’s a 5 man bullpen to back a young and less than durable starting rotation.
The monster at the end of this blog.
What're the odds against Cassevah even surviving the spring?
60-40? 66-34?
I think I’d still take the over on those. 75-25?
[FWIW, I’d much rather keep Eveland than Cassevah.]
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
CASILLA DON'T LIKE IT
DRAFTIN CASSEVAH
DRAFTIN CASSEVAH
Seriously, where the hell is Monkeyball with a poetic interlude?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Jan 9, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Goldstein put the odds at 10-1 on Cassevah sticking
Seems a bit low (I don’t think he gave anybody even a 50-50 chance to stick, which is probably fair), given that the A’s actually have carried Rule 5 picks through the season with some frequency.
Still, the next player the A’s carry through the year who actually turns out to have been worth the roster problems inflicted by that action may be the first – if there’s been a worthwhile one, I can’t think of him offhand.
The A's Carried Marshall
for a full year a couple years ago and recently lost him on waivers to the Red Sox – talk about a waste of a roster spot that year.
and then got him back.
and then just lost him again.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Eveland not worthy
Eveland has proven himself to be not worthy. How many chances should a guy get? Between the Brewers, Diamondbacks and A’s he’s had plenty of opportunity to show his stuff.
You must have missed his 2008 season where he was perfectly acceptable as a back-of-the-rotation guy
And that’s worth something in Major League Baseball.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 10, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
you make a good point jd44
still, Eveland was pretty foul to watch last season and was not very good in Sacramento either, IIRC. Obviously, if he can’t outperform other pitchers in ST I think he’s as good as gone, unless there is some team out there completely desperate for SSP. Shitty Staring Pitching
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
I don't have any real attachment to Eveland
But he’s been good enough to keep around while you can keep him around for cheap. And I would rather shitty Dana Eveland pitching than shitty Trevor Cahill pitching. If they’re going to be equally bad, give me the guy who doesn’t matter and let the other guy figure it out in the minors.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 10, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, he sucked in 2009
So did many pitchers, such as Ervin Santana.
Sometimes players reorient themselves over an offseason. Why not give them a chance to do so? Especially compared to a nonentity like Cassevah, who’s never been good at any level of baseball at all.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Which is exactly why I stated
that he better come out guns a blazing come ST or his ass is grass. Or he gets traded first…
I just don’t have any confidence in the guy, that’s all.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on Jan 10, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Eveland's a good case where the eyes come in handy.
There’s nothing to suggest he’s good when you watch him, even in his “good” season. He has decent stuff, but he has terrible command and doesn’t deal with adversity well, to say the least. He might be able to hang on with awful teams like the Royals and Orioles, but he’ll never do any better than hang on because he’s left-handed.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Currently, but hopefully not permanently.
And at least they stick out in comparison by being recently good. I was looking for Raider-like awfulness (he says as a Raider fan).
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Eh
I think people are unfairly prejudiced against him because he’s always fidgety when he’s pitching. He looks uncomfortable, which people interpret as him actually being uncomfortable (whether or not that’s actually true).
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
by PaulThomas on Jan 10, 2010 6:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm more bothered by the fact
that he doesn’t get very many hitters out. He really doesn’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm more bothered by his hipster glasses
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with actual talent...
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Well, I guess it depends on how you define talent.
I guess we should have more data on the mental makeup of pitchers, but every time I look at Dana Eveland, the word “fail” leaps to mind. I couldn’t care less how you throw if you don’t know how to throw it, especially if it looks like you’ll never gain that understanding.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
The problem isn't that he looks like he expects to fail
The problem is that he’s right.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm sure plenty of people said this:
every time I look at Dana Eveland, the word "fail" leaps to mind
about Jack Cust, too.
Well, not literally. They probably didn’t mention Dana Eveland. But you know what I mean.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
My eyes didn't see any of those things. His command was no worse
than Cahill’s or Gio’s but his stuff was a lot worse, causing him to get hit hard. To make matters worse he was a ground ball pitcher with Cabrera, Kennedy and Giambi playing behind him.
I don’t think he was as terrible as his ERA, but he wasn’t good. I still expect a 92-95 ERA+ groundballing innings eater who can be reasonably successful with a good infield defense.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good luck
In his “good year” Eveland allowed 2 hits and a walk every 2 innings. In every other stint, his WHIP has been between 1.83 and 2.60. The only thing he has consistently done in his major league career is not get hitters out.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He also induces a ton of groundballs
There are 56 pitchers who have thrown 200+ innings in the AL over the past 2 years. Eveland had the 5th highest groundball rate (50.6%) among them. Not coincidentally, he had the second lowest HR rate (one per 15 IP) among those 56 pitchers. His groundballing ways also result in a lot of GIDP.
I think he can be a solid 4th starter, and I’d rather not see the A’s lose him for nothing.
This.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Jan 11, 2010 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
Gotta ask
I’m not sure were you’re getting combined data so I can’t do the leg work myself. Where did he rank in strike outs and in walks. I know Eveland’s raw numbers over the past two seasons but if you’re going to compare rates then we should know how he matches up in those two critical areas.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The data is from Fangraphs
Among those 56 pitchers, Eveland was 36th in K/9 and 55th in BB/9.
He walks a lot of people (more than his minor league stats would suggest), and he’ll always allow a lot of hits (groundballs are more likely to be hits than flyballs). But he still gets enough Ks and groundballs that he can be an effective pitcher by limiting the damage his baserunners do. His FIP, for example, was 27th among those 56 pitchers. If you’re more into xFIP, he was 35th.
Last year is obviously a concern, as he cannot be a successful pitcher with those rates. But his 2008 season and prior minor league work suggested he was a league average SP. That prior history and his solid numbers in the second half of the minor league season in 2009 suggest to me that he can still be a 4th or 5th starter, despite his struggles overall last year.
Did you create a spread sheet to look at both years?
I didn’t think there was a function on Fangraphs that allowed you to look at multiple years at once.
As for Dana Eveland, he has had the minor league numbers and the raw stuff that lead teams to believe he could be a productive big league starter. He’s been teasing for 4 years now, first with the Brewers and now with the A’s. (He was hurt while with the D’backs, he gets a mulligan there.)
Eveland has not pitched well in the big other than during the first two months of 2008. Point of fact, he’s pitched so poorly the A’s have demoted him twice since acquiring him. His walk rate is the second worst among the group you looked at and his strike out rate was solidly in the lower half of the group. He doesn’t exactly control the running game as SB thieves have an 80% success rate against him.
He does limit the long ball but he puts a lot of guys on base (being particularly generous with the free pass) and he doesn’t strike out enough to consistently get himself out of trouble. He’s 26 years old and has no physical projection left.
In my opinion the AL figured Eveland out after May ‘08 and he hasn’t been able to adjust since. If the A’s don’t add any pitching talent between now and ST then by all means, let him throw in Arizona. But as the 40 man roster currently stands Eveland and Aaron Miles are at the very bottom of the list and the only way Miles gets cut is if the A’s land another SS alternative.
Eveland needs to pitch lights out in Arizona to earn a job in Oakland. Every other pitcher on the 40 man roster is either better than him or has options remaining, so if there’s a roster crunch somewhere Eveland is the most logical selection to let go.
The monster at the end of this blog.
You're simply focusing on the negatives
Look at the big picture.
His walk rate is the second worst among the group you looked at and his strike out rate was solidly in the lower half of the group.
Yet, despite all this, his FIP and xFIP were very respectable. This should tell you that a pitcher who gets as many groundballs as Eveland does can still be an OK starter (4th or 5th SP) despite having a mediocre K rate and poor walk rate. Do you disagree with this? Do you think FIP (or xFIP) are somehow not accurately representing Eveland?
In my opinion the AL figured Eveland out after May ‘08 and he hasn’t been able to adjust since.
Did they unfigure him out after he came back to Oakland in August? After being recalled from AAA in August 2008, Eveland posted a 3.98 ERA in 43 IP (7 starts). He had 33 Ks, 13 BB, and 2 HR in those 43 IP. Those are very good numbers.
The fact is that Eveland had a very solid 2008 season. He was a league average starting pitcher in his 29 starts with the A’s. He finished the year strong, and he was excellent in his 3 starts in AAA.
As for the Fangraphs data: click on “leaders.” Then click on the drag down menu labeled “month.” At the bottom of that menu, you can select the past 1, 2, or 3 calendar years.
His FIP and xFIP rate are solid 'cause of the low HR rate
Which would be well and truly groovy if the only way other teams could score was via HR.
I’m all for giving Eveland a shot as long as there’s room on the 40 man roster. As for the 25 man roster, is it your contention that if Eveland pitches like shit in ST that he deserves a spot in Oakland simply because he’s out of options? I’m willing to give the guy a chance (albeit a slight chance) to succeed. Are you willing to give him the chance to fail?
I’m going to give you the same opportunity I gave Bobby Crosby’s supporters years ago. How bad does Dana Eveland have to perform for YOU to be willing to cut ties with him?
Even more better questions! What if the A’s do want to add another pitcher during the offseason, one who needs to be on the 40 man roster? Who do you cut to make room? Do you cut one of the 18 position players? The other 21 pitchers either pitched well in 2009 or still have options remaining, all but guaranteeing that someone will claim them if the A’s designate any of them for assignment. How many players currently on the 40 man roster are you willing to lose just to give Dana Eveland another shot this Spring? At some point basic logistics comes into play.
As for Eveland’s September ‘08, any goodwill he earned was spent last April. He’s got 1 last shot to perform in my book and if he doesn’t come out blazing than I’m all for giving someone else the opportunity.
Thanks for the tip on Fangraphs, I’d never used that particular scroll down before.
The monster at the end of this blog.
That doesn't make any sense
His FIP and xFIP rate are solid ’cause of the low HR rate. Which would be well and truly groovy if the only way other teams could score was via HR.
FIP and xFIP are well aware that there are other ways to score, of course.
I’m unclear on whether you don’t understand how FIP works, or whether you simply don’t think it has any value in this case. If it’s the latter, I’d love to see you explain why.
Let me clear things up then
I understand how FIP, xFIP, tRA, ERA+ and most other non-standard metrics work. It’s just some days I wonder if maybe we’re in the midst of over-thinking the question. But that doesn’t matter right now.
I’m conceding the point to you. Let’s give Dana Eveland another shot. But I want you to set the standard… how bad does Eveland have to pitch before you’re willing to cut bait? Who do you bench or option to the minors or even possibly release to guarantee that Eveland gets his chance?
You told me to look at the big picture and I already had; I had my answers and I knew what I’d do if by some strange twist of Fate I got to make the decisions. I’m passing that onus to you.
You want to give Eveland the chance to succeed and you even set the bar (#4 SP). Fine. How long does he have to prove himself and when are you going to pull the plug if perchance he fails?
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for
If the scouts still think Eveland has the stuff he had in 2008, I’m fine with him as either the 5th SP or the 7th man in the bullpen. Whether he’s demoted depends as much on the success of the young pitchers he’s competing against as it does on his own.
I don’t see much reason to keep Cassevah.
I don't understand the confusion
You think Eveland can be a #4 SP. You want to save his spot on the 25 man roster seemingly regardless of future moves. OK, let’s pencil him in the rotation. Let’s give him another shot. I am not fine with the idea of hiding him in the back of the bullpen. If Eveland is going to be an inflexible addition to the 25 man roster than I want production.
How long are you going to give him to perform up to your expectations?
The monster at the end of this blog.
As I said, it doesn't just depend on Eveland's performance
Not only is it silly to definitively say he must have at least X ERA in Y IP or else he’s gone, but his place on the team also depends on a variety of other factors: the performance of other pitchers he’s competing against, the health of the team’s pitching staff overall, and his value on the trade market.
Eveland could be pitching like a 4th starter, and it may make sense to move him for whatever due to other factors. Conversely, he could be pitching like a 7th starter, and it may make sense to keep him in the rotation.
Well, I gave you a chance
I go back to my original position: If the A’s can sign a better SS option then Aaron Miles can be let go to make room on the 40 man roster. Any other FA addition (or trade acquisition that doesn’t involve the A’s shipping off someone currently on the 40 man) means Eveland gets designated or released.
If that addition doesn’t happen then Eveland stays and can compete for a SP job in ST. If he outpitches at least 3 of Mazzaro/Cahill/Gio/Mortensen then he earns a spot in the rotation. If he doesn’t, he gets let go.
If all you’re going to do is keep Eveland around “just in case” then I’d rather not waste the 40 man roster slot and sign another DiNardo type.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Or they can just release Cassevah like Danny said and you chose to completely ignore.
Eveland is in my view significantly more likely to be a valuable asset than Cassevah.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Jan 14, 2010 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
Alright...
Sticking Eveland in the very back of the bullpen is a waste of a roster spot. If you aren’t going to give him the chance to perform to level you think he can (#4 SP) then why waste the time? How much time are we willing to waste before making a decision on Eveland’s “true” capability? How many players are you going to deny an opportunity to in the effort of this pitching experiment?
Hey, I’ll pencil in Eveland as the A’s #4 SP for you if you’re adament on giving him his shot. I can’t be any more yielding to the more-Eveland crowd than that! The job is his to lose.
However, since it seems my opinion on when he loses his job has been deemed premature it only makes sense that you make the call. And since I have already been more than fair, you can do me the courtesy of telling me how you’re going to define success or the lack thereof.
Because as I see it, if you can’t do that than your opinion on this matter is worthless. I will not agree to giving Eveland an indefinite chance at holding on to a spot in Oakland.
On the off chance that you don’t really want to pencil Eveland in to the rotation and would like to keep him in the bullpen as “insurance”… well, I suggest shopping for a more flexible and cost efficient insurance policy. Put a real bullpen arm in Oakland’s bullpen and sign another DiNardo type to a minor league contract.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Cost effective?
He’s making the f&*^ing league minimum salary. It would actually cost MORE to sign another DiNardo type to a minor league deal, while promoting Meloan or whoever to the long relief role. On top of which, your team would be less talented.
I think everyone here except you is basically agreed that what the A’s should do is have a competition for the last 2-3 slots next spring and, if Eveland doesn’t win it, to keep him in the bullpen until injury or ineffectiveness opens up a rotation slot. (As an added bonus, he can act as a free situational lefty in the meantime.) Which it will. At which point he will get another chance to demonstrate that he’s good enough to pitch in the majors.
I don’t understand why you keep doing all this hand-waving and personalizing of the issues. It’s completely irrelevant and just filling up the page unnecessarily.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Like it's my fault so many are wrong on this
Problem 1: The assumption that you can turn Eveland, a guy who has spent the bulk of his career as a SP into a long man/situational lefty while maintaining his ability to start at a moment’s notice is asking a lot. Assuming he’ll be effective as a situational lefty while maintaining his SP stamina is asking more than a lot. Is it doable? Sure. But that’s an awful lot of experimentation to do at the big league level.
Problem 2: You are freezing a roster spot in Oakland while doing the mad scientist routine. What happens if the A’s have a guy who’s banged up and needs a few days off, but he’s not messed up enough that the team wants to put him on the DL? (Sound familiar?) Oakland wants to call up reinforcements but to do that (since they won’t DL whomever and Eveland is a sacred cow) they’d have to send down a healthy and potentially effective body to get the AAA guy up. Bad enough you’re essentially demanding that the A’s play with a 24 man roster (plus your experiment/insurance policy) but it’s not unlikely that they’ll have to play more than a few games with a 23 (or even fewer!) man roster.
Problem 3: I. DON"T. WANT. TO. DO. THIS. NEXT. YEAR. I don’t want to hear a bunch of crap about how the A’s buried Eveland in the back of the bullpen and he never got a chance to prove himself and he could be a #4 SP and sure he’s arby eligible but Duke is gone and on and on. At least you gave me a 1 year time line and for that I thank you. I don’t think Eveland has a year to prove himself but you know, that’s why they play the games. Danny and dfa have wimped out on my request. I am as willing to give Eveland a chance to succeed as they are to willing to give him a chance to fail.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Actually, you do have a point
I was trying to articulate the value of roster flexibility and using a viable relief pitcher in the 7th spot and “cost efficient” was a very brutal mangling of what I was attempting to say. My inner editor sounded the warning but I was anxious to post the comment. My bad.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Despite all that
I’d rather have him pitching than Cahill if Cahill is still not ready.
I don’t think Eveland will ever be great, and probably not even good. But I think he can be serviceable, and that’s exactly the type of cheap commodity the A’s need to pitch some innings for them this year.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
yep
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 12, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
Cahill again
Try this rotation on for size:
Duke
Braden
Anderson
Gonzalez
Mazzaro
You’ll notice two names unmentioned, yet there are 5 SP in my list.
Gonzalez is undoubtedly a work in progress but it is questionable how much more he’ll benefit by being down in AAA. There’s avery good chance that what Gio needs now is to face big league batters. Mazzaro pitched better than Gio (and Eveland) did in Sacramento last year.
I’m not saying it’s a lock that both Gio and Mazzaro are in the A’s rotation to start next year but don’t they deserve the very same chance to compete for a job as Eveland? And if they both outpitch Eveland during ST which one are you going to send down just to keep Dana around?
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't think you have to
Just use Eveland as the spot starter/long relief man. It would mean having three lefties in the bullpen, but that’s not going to kill anyone.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Why are the A's going to need a spot starter?
The bullpen is going to be:
Bailey
Devine
Ziggy
Wuertz
Breslow
Blevins (I’d say Kilby but Blevins for your sake.)
Plus one.
The competition for the last spot will be between Meloan, Kilby, H. Rodriguez, Cassevah, Eveland and anyone who pulls a Bailey. Does Eveland have to beat all these guys out to take the last spot? Or do the A’s just give him the spot regardless since he’s out of options?
Then the question is, how does Eveland get playing time to prove himself worthy of a larger role? The argument is Eveland could be a #4 SP so let’s keep him around. But if he’s in the bullpen how is he supposed to be earning his #4 SP value?
The A’s don’t necessarily need an in-Oakland insurance policy for the rotation. They can go 7 deep without Eveland since Cahill and Mortensen are both on the 40 man and in Sacramento.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Hey, I like Kilby too
I was the guy advocating for giving him a B- at minorleagueball… really, if anything, Breslow is the guy I could take or leave. He’s going to start costing real money after this year, he’s not that great, and he’s on the wrong side of 30. However, for the same reason that I’d keep Eveland in the majors, I’d keep him there for the time being and option down one of the other guys.
At least at the moment, I think Eveland is better than Cahill and Mortensen are. (I think he’s likely to stay better than Mortensen, who I really dislike.)
The reason to keep him in the bullpen if he isn’t needed right away is: the 7th bullpen spot isn’t really that important. It’s almost like an extra option slot, except you can use it on anyone, even a guy who’s out of options like Eveland or a Rule 5 pick. The other options for that slot are probably worse than Eveland is. So you stick him there if you don’t need him after the spring, and wait for the inevitable injuries to “activate” him.
I really don’t see any need to cut him loose. If he’s sucking and the roster spot has to be freed up, that’s one thing, but I’m not sure that’ll really be necessary. 60-day DLs may end up “solving” that problem anyway. If he’s still bad by the end of next year, then you nontender him and that’s that.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Even I (an Eveland hater) agree with this
It doesn’t matter who your E. Gonzalez / Saarloos / Halsey / Yabu is. Good place to put Eveland if you don’t want to waive him.
I also agree that of Blevins, Kilby, and Breslow, Breslow is the one I like least.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's a waste of a roster spot
You can put Eveland in all his insurnace policy glory in the 7th bullpen spot or you can put an actual, functioning relief pitcher in the spot; allowing Geren the chance to alternate bullpen pitchers to avoid over-use.
If you need another SP and you don’t want to call up Cahill/Mortensen then you can find room on the 40 man to purchase DiNardo’s contract or some other DiNardo like arm you’ve stashed as a minor league FA in Sacramento.
The monster at the end of this blog.
No one really uses 7 bullpen pitchers though
It’s almost impossible to mix consistent work for all of them, with correctly leveraging the best of them.
DiNardo is worse than Eveland. Why would you put yourself in a position where you would be forced to go with a worse option?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Because if we activate the Eveland policy
It means we’ve got multiple (at least 3 SP) injured/ineffectives in the rotation mix. At which point the season is screwed anyways, so why worry about the difference between Eveland and DiNardo?
And since you want to make Eveland the 7th bullpen guy (and as you say, rarely use him) how does he ever get a chance to prove himself?
The monster at the end of this blog.
I answered my own question
The A’s don’t need a spot starter on the 25 man roster. The way I see it Duke, Braden and Anderson are set in the rotation. That leaves Cahill, Gio, Mazzaro, Mortensen and Eveland to battle it out for the last two spots.
The pro-Eveland argument is that he can be a #4 SP. My opinion is he can fight for the job in ST and may the best two SP win. But you and Danny and a few others seem to want to give Eveland a pass on competing for the job. Fine.
Let’s not mess around with this spot starter bullshit. Put Eveland in the rotation from the get go BUT… I want to know when you pull the plug. If he succeeds there’s no issue but I don’t want to be having this same conversation about Eveland a year from now.
So you or Danny or someone needs to step up and say “We expect to see positive results out of Eveland by (fill in the blank)”. I want to know that if he doesn’t perform up to your expectations by a given time that you’ll lead the call for Dana Eveland to sleep with the fishes.
Or at least get DFA’d.
The monster at the end of this blog.
For me, it's not about Eveland's results
Unless he’s throwing up a 9 ERA or something truly below replacement.
It’s about sticking with him until a young guy is ready to come in and not get destroyed. I don’t have any particular affinity for Eveland. I just think he can fill a useful role. Of course, Lenny DiNardo might be able to fill that role, too.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
Gonzalez and Mazzaro say "Hi"...
and they want to know what exactly they did to make you think they suck.
I personally don’t believe in throwing away every 5th game. If you don’t believe that Eveland can give the A’s a chance to win when he pitches then I’m just going to have to disagree with you about his placement on the team.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't see Mazzaro as Gio's equal
He doesn’t have an “out” pitch, his numbers last year were as bad as Cahill’s, and he’s a lot closer to being as good as he’s going to be than Cahill is. Gio was a lot better than Mazzaro last year, and before that. I personally don’t see Mazzaro’s ceiling as much higher than Eveland’s, if any.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 13, 2010 2:06 AM PST up reply actions
I think Mazzaro will be much better
than Eveland could ever hope to be. Just give the guy some time…I’m confident he’ll be a an above average starter in the bigs.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
I just want the A's to win the World Series
I don’t see Eveland in there as being significantly worse than Mazzaro at this point. Mazzaro DID suck last year. I think he’ll be decent, but he wasn’t in 2009.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 14, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
He also got a little fatigued
and then shut down after it was discovered that he was hurting.
It’s possible he may have been pitching thru pain for awhile before he was shut down. While it would not explain all of the sucking, his first 4 starts aside, it would help to explain some of it.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Sure, those last two can compete.
But if Eveland and Gio or Eveland and Mazzaro have similar ST numbers – especially if “similar” means “kinda bad” – I’d rather have Eveland in there. I tend to think Gio is ready, and needs to take his lumps at the Major League level. I’m not sure Mazzaro is truly ready yet.
In a season that probably won’t matter, I’m more interested in protecting the true assets than winning a couple extra games (because the goal is NOT to win every game, but to win the World Series; I think letting the young guys get more seasoning is the better way to do that).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
Then you give them the starting roles and bury Eveland at the back of the bullpen
and then wait for the inevitable injury.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Well yes, he is lots older than both of those people and has worse stuff
What were we talking about again?
Anyway, both of those other guys have been hit hard, too, but at least there’s some reason to hold out hope for them.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I don't think you make any decision on him
until after Spring Training. Not that his actual numbers should mean anything, but he certainly needs to show signs that he has actually reoriented himself otherwise I think you DFA him and hope he’s so bad no one else claims him.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
i think eveland gets a chance for the same reason patterson does
i’ll take any of those other three relievers over cassevah, though.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Yeah, I'd think that the A's will give Eveland one last chance to show some value
so they they can either keep him or be able to trade him. If he’s stuck in AAA, he’s basically useless beyond and injury backup this season (and they’d have to let him go next year if he doesn’t do well enough to make the team) – best give him a chance to showcase himself to an NL team that needs a 5th hipster starter
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
He's out of options
He can’t be sent to AAA at all anymore, at least not without waiving him.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Yes, you're right.
My essential point is, surely the A’s will want to get some value out of him, and can afford to carry a pitcher even he’s not the best available, for a couple of months, thus to showcase him?
Though, there’s always the risk he is so bad that no-one would touch him with a barge pole.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
In which case, you release him at that point
and life proceeds apace.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
exactly!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Barge pole
I think that’s what’s going to happen. Even if he does show some steam, the other teams would look at a decidedly mediocre 2008 as being his only bright spot.
I hope he gets released towards of the ST
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 10, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
I hope he gets traded for an infielder better than Miles that may also be
supernumerary to another team.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
why would you hope an A's player fails?
Have to say, I don’t understand that.
Unless it’s those stupid glasses he wears. That, I can understand.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Because with him
It would be addition by subtraction
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 10, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
I have rooted against players I felt were bad
I don’t want a bad player having a fluke couple of weeks or a month to save his job when we all know he’s actually bad. Look at Eric Patterson’s September 2009. I think he’s pretty clearly not qualified to be a major league hitter, but a near-.500 BABIP in September might earn him a shot that should go to someone better. I’d much rather a guy like him just strike out everytime to hasten their departure because I know (as well as I can, anyway) he hasn’t actually become better at baseball.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
I don't like when BABIP is criticized in this way
A guy might have a high BABIP for a month because he’s hitting the ball extremely well during that month. High short-term BABIP is not always explained by “luck”.
In Patterson’s case, his major-league performance in ’09 was actually right in line with his outstanding Sacramento performance in ’09 – a full season of success, not a mere month.
I think that Patterson’s growth as a hitter in ‘09 – the full season, mind you, not the one major league month – might have been real. As a 26-year-old, he might’ve still been putting it all together. If he was 35, or even 30, I wouldn’t feel that way.
Patterson’s BABIP in ‘09 was .382 – very good, but not quite “near-.500”. Part of the reason he’s maligned in these parts is because of his very poor ‘08 at the major-league level. But his ’08 major-league BABIP was .258. So the truth about his suckiness/greatness is definitely somewhere in between those two data points. I don’t think he sucks, personally. I think he could be a very valuable 25th man on our roster.
I like to look at BABIP over a full season, or more. If Eric Patterson had one single season with a BABIP of .400, and the previous three seasons his BABIP was .300, then yeah, I’d call that one season “lucky”, and predict that he would regress down from there. But considering that his ML performance correlated with his minor-league performance, I wouldn’t write off an otherwise impressive month unless I had actually seen each one of those plate appearance. Maybe he legitimately hit the ball better during that month. If that’s the case, his BABIP for that month wasn’t “lucky”, even if it’s not sustainable.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 12, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What I said:
Look at Eric Patterson’s September 2009. I think he’s pretty clearly not qualified to be a major league hitter, but a near-.500 BABIP in September might earn him a shot that should go to someone better.
Actually, I should have said “Last 28 days,” because in that span his BABIP was .484. It was only .421 in September (which is the difference of one game, actually). I don’t think his other peripheral numbers support such a high BABIP either (45% fly ball rate? I don’t even know how he managed such a high BABIP doing that).
The reason Patterson is maligned by ME is because I watch him try to hit major league pitching and he just can’t. A month of fluke flares and seeing-eye singles won’t change my mind there. Oh, and he’s close to useless on defense.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
The last part is the key to me
He may or may not be able to hit a bit, but even if he does…Hitting “ok,” do you want him at 2B? 3B? LF? CF? No.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not in a starting role, but I don't have a problem with him as
a bench player.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 13, 2010 2:08 AM PST up reply actions
me too
I’d like to have him as a pinch-runner especially. Our position players next year will include Cust, Fox, Powell, Chavez, McPherson…several guys who could use a pinch-runner in that group.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 13, 2010 6:03 AM PST up reply actions
If DH Cust /Fox/McPherson/Chavez is ever pinch run for
I will [empty threat]!
Tie game in extra innings after one of them is on third with no outs maybe.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Did you watch him during that timeframe?
I admit he did look lost before then, but when he got hot he was hitting line drives all over the place. There was a period of time there when I had as much confidence in him as anyone in the lineup and he kept backing it up in September.
I don’t know if he will make it as a big leaguer but he showed me enough that I think he deserves a chance.
He also was taking walks
And seeing more pitches than before. It really looked like he was coming around.
This only makes sense if
(1) you know which sample to throw out as “a fluke” and which to keep because that’s what you know he’s really like; or
(2) the front office is unable to judge a player’s total performance as well as you can.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
1) is not a valid point. I’m comparing a long stretch vs. a small sample. We’re not talking about equal sample sizes.
2) It’s not about being better at player evaluation. Teams just don’t dump guys who have shown that glimmer of hope for whatever reason. I’d just as soon not have that glimmer for a guy who probably isn’t good.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
Sure it's a small sample, but
you’re picking WHICH small sample to throw out.
Why not take his worst month and throw that out instead?
For what it’s worth, I also think Patterson is probably no good, but it doesn’t make me root against him.
Last May I thought Rajai was awful, and I was among the many calling for him to be cut, but I was pleased when he surprised us all and got good. During those first few weeks when Rajai started playing over his head, did you root against him because you knew he was really bad and didn’t want the A’s to be given an excuse not to cut him?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Elope: grab barge pole.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Jan 10, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Upside = mediocre
Eveland, at his very best was an average #5 starter. I thought A’s were building a champion for 2015? This guy just gets in the way.
An "average #5 starter" would mean you think he's about the 135th best starter in baseball
I’d have to think he’s at least a little better than that.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Here's an interesting secondary topic for this thread:
All 12 of these guys are going to be Rule 5 eligible for the first time after the 2010 season:
Michael Taylor
Adrian Cardenas
Josh Donaldson
Grant Desme
Sean Doolittle
Corey Brown
Donald James Simmons
Matt Sulentic
Andrew Carignan
Justin Friend
Josh Horton
Travis Banwart
Plus, there’s a guys who weren’t added this offseason that might play their way into 40-man roster protection by next offseason:
Corey Wimberly
Anthony Recker
Jared Lansford
Graham Godfrey
That’s a bumper crop of 16 players! Now granted, at least a few of them will have uninspiring ’10 campaigns and play themselves out of the conversation.
But it seems like the team will need to make another “consolidation” trade or two in the next 10 months, like they did with Holliday and Hairston.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 9, 2010 8:41 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I would guess that everyone from Carignan on down gets exposed
It doesn’t mean they’ll get taken.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They may go to jail though
depending on who is around when the exposure takes place
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Not Sulentic on down?
Or even Simmons on down, if he repeats the disaster of last season.
Sorry -- I meant Sulentic on down
They might protect Simmons b/c he’s still a young SP (likely to be taken).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Let me take a stab at this
I’m going to say that of the group of Friend, Horton, Banwart, Carignan, Sulentic, and the guys not added last year, only one is going to break out to the level that he needs to be protected. However, 2 or 3 of them may be available as tail-end Charlies for trade packages.
Taylor, Doolittle, and Cardenas are almost certainly going to be called up this season. They will take the places of Outman, Chavez, and Cassevah. Outman will return in mid-August replacing one of the A’s bullpen pitchers, who will blow out his shoulder and ultimately be released at the end of the season.
Crisp will be mediocre and his option will not be exercised; Chavez will be hurt and his option will not be exercised; Ellis will be good enough that his option probably will be exercised, since Cardenas will be shifting to third and Weeks will not be MLB-ready. Duke and Miles (if he isn’t released first) will depart as free agents. That opens up four spots for Rule 5 protectees.
At the end of the year Eveland, Patterson, Meloan and Petit, all out of options and running out of potential for growth, will be designated for assignment. Eight spots are now open for Rule 5 protection.
I think it’s definitely doable even without any additional trades. It’d be nice, of course, to spin off some of these players for low-minors prospects, but the return is likely to be pretty minimal anyway. If the no-trades scenario were to come to pass, the A’s would still enter 2010 with a 40-man roster which is almost entirely legitimate MLB talent, and the overwhelming majority of them would have options remaining (the possible exceptions being Buck, Ellis, Cust, Hairston, Davis, Fox, Wuertz, Rodriguez, Devine, Breslow and Blevins).
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
by PaulThomas on Jan 9, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Makes sense to me
The one way trades might not result in a minimal return is if they’re traded for a veteran major leaguer in a consolidation trade. I’m not inspired by the quality of midseason trade targets, but Brandon Webb might be one that makes sense. Another unconventional idea would be to trade multiple 40-man roster guys for one low minors prospect.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 9, 2010 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
This is one scenario where trading of draft picks would make this so much simpler
The A’s could then move those guys for a plethora of 3rd and 4th round picks from contenders who need minor upgrades or injury fill-ins.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Excellent analysis, rec'd
But I think you’ve actually freed up 10 spots rather than 8. By my count, among guys who are currently on the roster:
Cassevah
Crisp
Chavez
Duke
Miles
Eveland
Patterson
Meloan
Petit
hypothetical bullpen pitcher “who will blow out his shoulder and ultimately be released at the end of the season”
I don’t think you included the first or the last of those in your count, although they both figure in your overall analysis. (I wouldn’t really count that last one either until it actually happens, but your point is that something like that has a good chance of freeing up a spot not currently seen as open.)
You're right
There was some kind of math error there, apparently.
On the other hand, the team probably needs at least two slots for upgrades next offseason, so what the hey.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Re: Petit
I also think grover is right about Petit in his comment below, in that you can delete Petit himself, but you really can’t free up his roster spot since somebody is going to have to be a utility infielder who can play shortstop and that isn’t going to come from nsj’s list (unless it’s Horton, and if he develops well enough to earn Petit’s slot that’ll be an obvious plus). On the other hand, if you cut Petit you don’t really have to get another utility guy until around spring training 2011, giving you extra time to work things out. So the A’s should be able to sort of time-shift the utility infielder problem down the road a bit.
I keep hoping that Petit will actually learn how to hit
but I’ve sort of written it off as something close to a lost cause at this point.
What I’m really hoping will solve that problem is moving Pennington to that role, and replacing him with a better starting shortstop. Maybe Grant Green, maybe Coleman, maybe someone from outside the system.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I think this is what the A's should be trying to do
I like Pennington quite a bit, but he’s best-suited for a reserve role. Here’s hoping Green can develop quickly.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Not quite the daunting task you imply
Chavez, Duke and Miles are gone by the end of 2010 at the latest. 3 spots on the 40 man open.
Patterson and Eveland are out of options and need to spend all next year in Oakland AND they have to play well enough to earn employment in 2011. Ellis and Crisp have team controlled options for 2011. We’ve already seen the A’s non-tender Cust once, he and Hairston will be 3rd year arbitration eligible after 2010. Cassevah is a Rule 5 pick-up on a team with a lot of minor league bullpen depth. Buck, Petit, Blevins, Meloan and Fox all have 1 option year left and according to the NSJ plan all but Fox will burn that last option in 2010.
Looking at the outfield, unless something happens to Taylor he will the Oakland’s starting LF on Opening Day 2011. That means at least two of Buck/Patterson/Hairston won’t be in Oakland in 2011. If Davis turns back into a pumpkin than Crisp has his option picked up to start in CF. Davis is then in a fight for the 4th OFer job with the survivor of BPH and Sweeney the starter in RF. If Davis is able to hit enough to keep the CF job than Crisp doesn’t have his option picked up and the survivor of BPH (I’m guessing Hairston) is the 4th OFer. Boil it all down: 3 more spots on the 40 man open.
I don’t believe in Eveland so his spot opens up by Nov. 2010 at the latest.
Ellis will have his option picked up unless Weeks is banging down the door, in which case Weeks takes Ellis’ spot on the 40 man. Petit stays on the 40 man because if he’s not the utility infielder someone else will be.
That’s 7 open spots on the 40 man roster. How many do the A’s really need?
Horton, Banwart and Friend simply aren’t good enough to force their way into the picture. Godfrey and Lansford have outside shots at performing well enough to merit a spot but Recker’s fate is tied to the performance of others. Donaldson will be protected no matter what but if Powell can hold him off and maintain the back-up job in Oakland I do not expect the A’s to protect a 4th catcher on the 40 man. There’s a small chance the A’s move Powell to make room for Donaldson and decide to make Recker their 3rd catcher on the 40 man.
Wimberly also has a small chance of replacing Petit as the AAA utility guy.
Realistically though, Horton, Wimberly, Friend, Banwart and Recker need a lot outside help to land a spot on the 40 man next season.
That essentially leaves 7 certain open spots for 9 players. Taylor, Cardenas and Donaldson are all but guaranteed slots, leaving 6 others to perform for the 4 remaining opportunities.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jan 9, 2010 10:59 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Fox will only burn the option in 2010 if he's sent to Sacramento
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think he’ll spend the whole season on the 25-man roster.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 10, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
woah, biggest suprise from this
James Simmons is actually DJ Simmons???
IN THA HOUSE!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
It seems to me like we have a few too many players capable of only doing one thing.
*With Cust on the team, Fox becomes kind of redundant. He isn’t a third baseman, but maybe he stays as a fill-in and good RH bench bat.
*Patterson is a terrible LF and doesn’t have the bat for LF. With Hairston, Patterson doesn’t seem like a good fit, except for a pinch runner.
*Miles can’t really do anything.
It’s possible that I just have a soft spot for him because of the socks, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Corey Wimberly given a spot on the roster, though it seems unlikely. He’s a stolen base threat and pretty versatile defensively. I’d rather watch him play than Miles.
I wouldn't say Patterson is a terrible LF. He's a below average 2B and CF, but not bad in LF.
Miles can also pinch run FWIW. Wimberly probably isn’t much different from Miles, which is more a comment on how bad Miles is than anything.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 9, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
Regarding Patterson, I meant that offensively, Patterson is less than ideal in LF
by Opus Youngblood on Jan 9, 2010 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
and defensively
and well..
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Right, Patterson shouldn't be your Plan A in LF, or really anywhere.
But he’s not bad as a Plan B in LF, CF and 2B and pinch runner.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 9, 2010 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
has he ever played CF?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
A little last year. Geren at one point anointed him the everyday CF and then he
was sent to the minors a couple of days later. He’s probably about as good/bad there as he is at 2B.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 9, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
I thought they anointed him the everyday LF
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Here's Urban's article describing the situation
Given that the A’s said Eric Patterson would be their everyday center fielder in the wake of the July 24 trade that sent Matt Holliday to St. Louis, perhaps manager Bob Geren’s declaration that Rajai Davis is the new everyday center fielder should be taken with a grain of salt.
After all, Patterson got all of seven starts in Oakland’s 12 games after the Holliday trade before being optioned to Triple-A Sacramento on Wednesday afternoon, and thanks in part of an injury by left fielder Scott Hairston, only four of the seven starts came in center.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 9, 2010 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
Ha, maybe this just means that Geren is quickly able to identify his own mistakes and is not too proud to adapt?
Or maybe he’s just an idiot.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
That he batted Cabrera 1 or 2 for so long last year proves he can't identify mistakes
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 10, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
professional hitter!
wait, this isn’t the Giants, is it?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
There wasn't really any excuse for EVER batting Cabrera 1st or 2nd
On the other hand, most of the rest of MLB has no idea how to use the #2 slot either, so whatever.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
TWSS
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
No
TWYWSS
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
But the A's SHOULD.
At the very least, they shouldn’t be using the guy who was the worst hitter in the lineup in that spot. If I was a fan of the Dusty Baker-led Reds, I would understand. With the A’s, I just don’t.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
Patterson's arm is weaker than Starbucks coffee
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
word brotha!
not to mention the coffee you buy at a Starbucks is already old and stale, and you’re paying through the nose for it. Total rip job, and their scripted employee lingo is lame and pointless.
Take it from someone who was once employed there…
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
But he sure does have a lot of arms.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
?
Have I missed some interesting news? Does Patterson have a Gilbert Arenas problem? Last time I saw him he had two arms, although neither of them was any use for throwing.
I still don't get it
But that’s an awesome Escherian sort of image.
… ……… OK, I’m slow. So, “he sure does have a lot of arms” = “a Starbucks on every corner.” Nice touch, iglew, made me work the fucker out for myself. I especially like the bit where you insert a single quotation mark in the subject line, just in case some random user might like to collapse it. I hear that’s an issue in some quarters, not that I’ve ever cared about it myself.
I always make you work it out for yourself.
The only you noticed it is because mrod commented. Otherwise, it would have just flown right by, like all the others.
The ` subject line is in deference to Matthew at Lookout Landing, where subject lines are required:
3. INCLUDE A SUBJECT LINE. If you do not include something on the subject line of your comment, then users are prevented from collapsing the comment should they not want to view the image and, more importantly to us, it greatly hinders our moderation since everything in our mod queues is tied to the subject line. If you fail to include a subject on your comment, it will be hidden and you will be given a warning. No exceptions. You don’t need to think of something to say on the subject line, I frequently just enter a ` symbol. There’s no excuse to not including one.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
You're the first to remark on the XKCDish tool tips, though.
I think they have gone mostly unnoticed…..
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Damn
Someone’s god mad html skills…I think I tried doing that in a fanpost and it didn’t work. Care to share with the class?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Teach a man to fish....
Go to any XKCD page, view source, and search for the IMG tag.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I could do that here though
Plus I’m lazy….
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Here we go
< img title=“Title” src=“url” >
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
A's Offense
It seems like most years the A’s starting roster has 6 infielders, 2 catchers, and 5 outfielders.
Just a side note. With both Texas and Seattle bulking up their offense, what are the A’s doing to compete with them. I am all for a good defense, but a majority of the time thats not gonna win games.
I think the A’s will do one more big move, FA or trade, for an infielder, then they will be finished.
FA wise, there aren't any big moves left to be made
Here’s the sum total of remaining players that CHONE thinks are above-average talents:
Ramon Castro
Johnny Damon
Joe Crede
Orlando Hudson
Russell Branyan
or basically, one guy riddled with injuries and four who play positions where the A’s already have way too many players. Unless you’re moving Russell Branyan back to third base…
You can disagree with CHONE to some extent, but most of the players remaining to be signed look like patches for black holes, not like legitimate frontline talent.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
You know Branyan -> 3b ain't that terrible an idea
He won’t be much defensively but he will hit. Then again, he probably won’t be healthy….
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
He'd probably be better than Fox, but I don't know if he'd be enough better to justify paying for him
I suppose you could platoon the two of them.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
How about Hudson at 3b?
He played in 242 games there in the minors.
Sure!
Even if you mean Kate.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nah...
Now that she’s been with A-Rod I wouldn’t touch her with a ten foot pole wearing a radiation suit.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
i have lower standards than youo
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Anybody but that douche of a faker A-Hole!
I used to have a huge thing for KAte Hudson but I have my limits my friend.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
i'm not sure that I do.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Precisely....
On a side note, I saw The Black Crows at Kinochti Harbor right after Kate Hudson had split up with her hubby, Chris Robinson {lead singer for The Crows} and he had one of his best performances that I have ever witnessed. The man had “the blues” and let everyone in attendance know it. A truly epic show!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
It set her limit.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
From what I can remember
he couldn’t keep up with Li’l kate and proceeded to land himself in rehab!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Psh.
Emotion doesn’t exist in music. That good concert was blind luck. It’s a simple statistical phenomenon.*
*Side note: This is, in fact, a joke.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
if the a's sign him, hairston jr can back up 2B, SS and 3B, right?
i don’t really care for him, but at least he’s not aaron miles…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
So you agree he's not Aaron Miles?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 9, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
Have you ever seen both of them in the same place
at the same time?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
April 22 in Chicago.
Hairston grounded into a double play in the fifth inning. Miles was the 2B who turned it. Here you go.
(I can’t believe I bothered to dig that up. Do I really have nothing better to do?)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Wow... Impressive commitment
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
I don't like this roster very much.
Aside from not needing Eveland or Cassevah in the majors, they still have a bunch of supernumerary guys — Buck, Cunningham, Eveland, Simmons, Mortensen, Brown, Desme, Peterson, Sulentic, Breslow, Meloan, Leon, Demel, Doolittle, Fox, Donaldson, Hairston — who can be moved for better solutions at SS and 3B.
I don’t really care that much about Cahill’s service time, but I do care that he has lost his breaking pitch, and might be able to find it better in AAA. I also care that he’s probably not as good as Mazzaro, Duchscherer, Anderson, Braden or Gonzalez right now. He might not even be as good as DiNardo.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
Roster
My feeling is that Eveland and Casseveh won’t leave spring training as Oakland A’s, and those positions on the roster would be taken by Cahill and Kilby. I also think there will be twelve pitchers, so I’d figure that Blevins will also make the team. Who leaves? My guess is that if Chavez is playing, the McPherson starts the season in AAA.
But NSJ still had Powell, Hairston, Fox, Miles and Patterson on the bench.
One of those would have to leave too with 12 pitchers.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 9, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
Right
He’s counting McPherson and Chavez as one person.
Then you’re either looking at Patterson working to be the backup 3B during spring training, or you’re talking about a consolidation trade of some sort. I like Hairston’s power as a fourth outfielder, and Fox’s power as back-up 1B/3B (to either Chavez or McPherson), which leaves Patterson as odd man out, particularly since Cust is your fifth outfielder.
this conundrum you're speaking of...
Is the reason I’d think about opening the year with 11 pitchers, even though I would typically prefer 12.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 10, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
I almost never prefer 12. One bullpen guy always ends up pitching like 3 times a month.
Total waste of a spot.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
McPhavez
You’re making a two-headed monster out of Chavez and McPherson, but as of right now, McPherson is not on the 40-man roster. That’s fine so long as Chavez is available to play, and it’s fine if Chavez leaves the 40-man to go onto the 60-day DL. But what it Chavez is hurt enough that he can’t play but not so bad that he goes on the 60-day DL?
If Chavez goes on the 15-day DL, he stays on the 40-man roster, right? If that happens — and I think it’s reasonably likely — then who do you bump in order to get McPherson up?
Unless I’m missing something, I think you don’t. I think McPhavez isn’t a true pair. I think Chavez is the starting 3B until he breaks so bad he has to go on the 60-day DL or retire. If he lingers on “day-to-day”, then I think you’re looking at Fox and/or Miles playing at 3B
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
In this fantasy world
where Chavez is actually day to day or 15-day DL able after spring training, do we also somehow acquire ARod to play SS while having the Yankees supply his entire salary for nothing but a bag balls in return. (Well, maybe we give them a couple of Adam Piatt signed bats as well, Minor League Player of the Year baby!!!).
But to answer the serious factor of your proposition (semi-joking aside), I suspect if Chavez somehow manages not to be a complete train wreck, they’d use some sort of filler (Fox, Patterson, Petit, Miles, alternate Ew, etc.) to fill in. Or, someone else entirely unnecessary (Eveland, Patterson, Miles, alternate Ew, etc.) would be DFAed. So basically not so much a true McPhavez, but a semi-automatic McPhavez.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
semi-automatic McPhavez
I think you need a license to carry one of those.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 10, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Nah, it breaks every time you try to fire it
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
by PaulThomas on Jan 10, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL nice
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 10, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
semi-automatically
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
McPherson takes Outman's roster spot
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 10, 2010 7:28 AM PST up reply actions
Why is Chapman off the board?
I know people have said Toronto and the Angels were the top two suitors. But wasn’t there the comment from the guy in the Angels organization saying they weren’t that serious yet? Is there a rumor I missed?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
This report says he's going to the Blue Jays.
El Nuevo Herald. No confirmation yet.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 3:26 AM PST up reply actions
The Blue Jays did exactly what I hoped the A's would do
They took a look at their situation – undesirable location/situation for a Cuban defector – and recognized that they would need to come in with overwhelmingly the best offer.
Their reported offer in the $23M range is probably $3-6M more than any other team’s offer, including the places that Chapman probably actually preferred to play – Anaheim, Florida – and because of that, the Blue Jays will get him.
That contract could still yield a ton of surplus value if Chapman reaches his ceiling. You have to take some gambles.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 10, 2010 7:33 AM PST up reply actions
However, whether Chapman is a good gamble
is a separate question. Immature with poor command…not the best risk. Ynoa: Much better risk.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ynoa might be a better risk because he's cheaper, but Chapman's pitched at higher
levels and succeeded. He’s certainly worth more than Ynoa. I’d rather have Chapman than the Cust, Duchscherer, Crisp trifecta.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Agree NSJ
He’s got a lot of potential and a Very High Ceiling. Yeah there’s a lot of risk he never gets the command or the disciple we hope for. If he does however we have so much value at such little to cost for years to come. ~50 million in payroll, barring no other major signings, we should go for it.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 10, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
I take it back......
After finding out the bidding went all the way up to 30 mil.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 10, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Well since no one's confirmed that report, I wouldn't count it as done just yet.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
Besides...
Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports tweets that he’s signing with an NL team for $30 mil. So who knows? Either way though, it looks pretty doubtful the A’s will get in there.
"To tell the truth, I'm not excited to go to Cleveland, but we have to. If I ever saw myself saying I'm excited going to Cleveland, I'd punch myself in the face, because I'm lying" - Ichiro
by Philip Christy on Jan 10, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Ya $30M is a large chunk for them, even over 6 years.
If it were over 9 years, that might not be too bad though.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
That's assuming it's a MLB deal over 6 years
and not just a signing bonus. If it’s the latter it’s a really bad move considering the arbitration costs.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
D-Backs?
Main NL team I heard about.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I love it!
Dusty Baker is going to destroy him in two years. Wonderful.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 10, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
If he's getting that expensive
I’m glad the A’s aren’t getting him.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I would think
playing in Canada would be an advantage to a cuban. Give the difference in gov’t policies towards Cuba.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
cust is still a one dimensional strikeout king who should have been cut
Giambi-FThomas-Piazza-MSweeney and Cust have been busts as dhs. Platoon Fox,Powell or Hairston
Cust looks three dimensional to me
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
three true dimensions
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Jan 10, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Frank Thomas was a bust? Where in the blue hell were you in 2006?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 10, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Newbie
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
First post
Kind of like throwing your first pitch and watching it sail 500 ft. over the wall. With any luck the poster will be able to shrug it off, settle down and get into a groove.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
I feel like his "groove" is going to be complaining about STRICKOUTS a lot
I don’t like that groove.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 10, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yay!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
Well then you call in Nico
for a bad joke or two to finish the game. He’s a team player and has shown willingness to take one for the team.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Its an NL central team and not the Nats
MIL has huge pitching issues, but not much payroll room.
I cant see cubs or stl paying that much. Actually hou and reds have payroll issues too.
PITT rebuild mode for almost 15+ years, could be them
My god he is an awful baseball player
My best comp is “Pedro Feliz without any of the defensive talent.”
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I would like the A's to try and acquire Neil Walker
He has struggled at AAA but si young cabaple at 3rd and expendable by the Bucs with Alvarez. A relief pitcher should be able top get him.
If he's got some pop this makes sense
He could be soda vendor at home and a club house attendant on the road. You can never have too many of those.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Something like that
Walker for his flaws will/is still a top 20 prospect by the different people.
So Yes I would assume a Blevins plus something. Another arm or middle infielder should work.
Top 20? In all of baseball?! Are you insane?
Who are these “different people” who rate him that highly?
Sickels didn’t even have him in the top 20 for the Pirates, and their system is very average.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 10, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
So Blevins + somebody are worth a guy who is a borderline top 20 prospect in a mediocre system?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
Holy christ that would be a terrible idea
Blevins was one of the better lefthanded relievers in baseball over the last few seasons.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
He's standard replacement level chaff
Might as well just sign Brooks Conrad again. At least he has a semblance of plate discipline.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I like this idea
When we had Brooks Conrad it made me think of Brooks Robinson, and that made me smile. It was like we had a future Hall of Famer just waiting to play! If Aaron Miles had a name more reminiscent of a Hall of Famer, maybe we would like him better. What if he changes his name to Mabbit Aaronville?
by el generico on Jan 11, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Hank Aaron Miles
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 12, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
11-man staff is never going to happen.
The A’s only have two off days in April and start the season with a long stretch of consecutive days. Count on 12 pitchers.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
This is probably true.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 10, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
If both McPherson and Chavez are broken in ST,
which has a pretty high percentage chance of happening, I’d definitely go with 12 pitchers and let Fox start at third with a four-man bench of Powell-Hairston-Miles-Patterson.
Since Cardenas has to be added to the 40-man by next offseason anyway, the team can purchase his contract in September and let him start at third for the rest of the season without burning an option. (They did this with Cunningham when they initially brought him up).
If only Patterson had a little more utility. Even if he sucks there, I think I want him to take some grounders at third in ST.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 10, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Your Freudian slip tells all.
I’d definitely go with 12 pitchers and let Fox start at third with a four-man bench of Powell-Hairston-Miles-Patterson.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I don't get it.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 10, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
OT Replacing a shower knob
The plastic inside area where the screw goes broke. Luckily its only the knob itself. Will any knob work as a replacement? I cant even find a model # or what company it was made from
what do you mean by knob?
the shower head, where the water comes out, or the taps that control the water flow? If the latter, do you have one each for hot and cold, or do is there just one overall?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Take the broken knob down to your nearest hardware store, and ask them to find on that matches
Hey Al, just go away, baby.
How Eveland is still in the majors at this point is beyond me..
He’s TURRBL
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
Because for a couple months 2 years ago,
a lot of line drives were hit right at fielders! Then he proceeded to suck for 1.5 years without especially good fortune.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, then he must at least have good credit, right?
One must have some redeeming qualities…..
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Well he wasn't in the majors for most of 2009.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 11, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
All I want for 2010
Is either Jed Lowrie or Reid Brignac and either Kevin Kouzmanoff or Andy LaRoche on our 40 man roster.
To attain 2 of those 4 players, I would give up some combination (no more than 2-5 depending of course on how good they are. For example, I’d trade Sweeney for Kouzmanoff straight up, or Hairston&Eveland&Patterson for Kouzmanoff) of:
Barton, Mazzaro, Fox, Hairston, Davis, Sweeney, Demel, Cunningham, Buck, H-Rod, Mortensen, Eveland, Ziegler, Patterson, Miles, Cahill.
I think the above list are our most tradeable pieces. Ellis is too, but he’s going to a playoff contender needing a 2B the most come July 31. Before going off on me, you really need to realize how terrible things are going to be if we dont get at least a league average 3B before opening day. I would go to great lengths, even overpaying greatly to get a guy like Kouzmanoff here. I have more faith in Pennington than most, but still realize we need another big league-quality guy in there. Lowrie would be perfect, and Brignac looks like he’s on the outs in TB as well. Its desperate times people, and frankly it worries me that more people arent on top of this issue.
it should only worry you
if Oakland management isn’t on top of the issue. We’re just people who leave comments on a blog.
That's what you think
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Wholehearedly agree
If Beane could get 2 of the 4 names you mention, my offseason grade could go from C+ all the way up to A depending on the packages.
Have I finally convinced you we should replace Pennington as well as get a 3b?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
If you'd trade Sweeney and Cahill for LaRoche, the Pirates would probably listen
I wouldn’t do that. I also wouldn’t trade anyone important for Kouzmanoff since he’s a placeholder for Cardenas. I’m still for and Eveland – Hu trade. Dodgers acquired Nick Green to back up Furcal, so Hu’s really unnecessary there now.
Lowrie has some health problems, so I don’t see him as an answer for an everyday job. I don’t see what the A’s have that the Rays need to get them to trade Brignac.
Rest assured, AN is on top of this issue.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 11, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
Are the rays still looking for catching and relief pitchers?
by eastbayexpat on Jan 11, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
No, at least not relief pitchers
They, in effect, traded Aki Iwamura for Rafael Soriano. (The actual trades involved what amounted to a replacement level relief pitcher, Jesse Chavez, being filtered through three systems.) Soriano a. probably fills out their budget for RP, and b. is very good, so they’re not in the active hunt anymore, especially since one of their SP is going to get converted to the bullpen in the near future (probably either Niemann or Davis).
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
If the Abbott and Costello team got Hu
they could platoon him, and then “I Don’t Know / Hu” would play third base.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Jan 11, 2010 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sweeney and Cahill for LaRoche?
The Pirates would be faxing the paperwork before the phone was done ringing.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Why so many Cahill haters?
Cahill went 4-1 with 1.80 ERA over his last 8 starts of the 2009 season. He was a rookie, rushed to the majors, so inconsistancy is to be expected. I like Cahill. To me it looks like he started to turn the corner. We should talking about this guy as a fixture in the rotation.
Because 4-1 with a 1.80 ERA don't mean shit
Pardon the French.
Those numbers do very little to tell us how well he actually pitched.
The monster at the end of this blog.
True dat...
So the Cahill argument continues…I’m not opposed to him making some additional starts in AAA to start the season if it will help him develop his breaking pitch a little more. His service time aside, I think it is more a question of him continuing to develop “another out pitch” and build confidence. He’s already had a full year in the bigs facing the big boys, in the AL no less, so that’s not the issue for me. He knows what to expect at this level so now he needs to take the next step and continue positive development, whatever that "route’ is. I guess we’ll find out in the next few months. eh?
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
For the first time in a long time...
I’m not looking forward to watch this team. I don’t recognize it anymore. Then again it’s Billy Beane aka Mini Davis…. I HATE it. I hate the Crisp signing, I HATE the Cust re-signing, it’s just stupid. I’m not sure I’m even going to get the MLB EI, that would be a huge waste.
Travis Buck's hair: "Wash me!"
by LiZaRdReVoLuTiOn on Jan 12, 2010 8:47 AM PST reply actions
Comparing Billy Beane to Old Plastic Pants is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read ever.
Sorry, I try to not be overly mean here, but…holy crap that just doesn’t make any damn sense.
Also, what does “I don’t recognize it” even mean? Then, one line later, you say you hate the Cust re-signing. Well, don’t you recognize him? Do you hate the new players or the old players? I’m confused.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Reading jd44's post made me realize what you were saying with the Mini Davis thing.
Er, I’ve always found a little humor in the fact that Billy Beane is the anti-Al Davis. Part of the new guard, one step ahead of the rest, successful despite being forced to be especially stingy with cash. Beane makes small, wise investments in undervalued players. Davis throws mammoth amounts of cash around to anyone with a sub-4.4 40 time and a pulse.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
To be fair, if Al Davis murdered somebody, there's a good chance he would be found incompetent to stand trial
It’s hard to really criticize him since he’s definitely not all there anymore.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
That's a rather morbid way of putting it
and a stretch by many means, sir.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
I don't think it's that much of a stretch
I think Al Davis is absolutely batshit crazy. And probably incontinent. Yes, I like to make fun of Davis, but I really do think he’s a nutjob.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 12, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
I still can't believe he brought out an overhead projector.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Heh. Depends if you're a Raiders fan or not.
For fans of the 31 other teams, it was a riot.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
"Depends"....I thought that was going to be the joke!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Perhaps he has lost his touch with football
but I think he still knows the difference between right and wrong.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
It's bad that we don't have a better #1 offensive force
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 13, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
That comment also works if you read it as "farce"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
While we're rosterbating...
I found an interesting and USEFUL tidbit from Urban (OMGWTFBBQ!):
Ryan Sweeney. Don’t get me wrong; Sweeney already is a really solid big-league outfielder. In fact, I say he was the best defensive outfielder to not win a Gold Glove in 2009. But he’s not yet fulfilled the offensive potential that prompted no less an authority than Frank Thomas to tell me, “Ryan Sweeney is going to be a 25-30 homer guy at some point.”
The A’s really need Sweeney, in 2010, to be at least closer to “at some point” than he’s ever been, and I think he will be. He’s not going to jump from six to 25 homers, but the guy is built like an NFL strong safety, and he did show a little more pop and a little more pull-ability in the second half of last season.
The A’s also have a very good hitting coach in Jim Skaalen, who helped tutor Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun in Milwaukee, and I know Skaalen has a plan for tapping into Sweeney’s power potential by adding a little more loft to his swing.
Right now, Sweeney is slightly above-average offensively — a inside-out swinger who hits for decent average, takes his share of walks and fits better near the top of a lineup. This should be the year he starts to emerge as more of a middle threat.
Every time the A’s tweak the batting of a good player, it scares me (see 09’ Cust)! Expect a lot of fly outs from Sweeney early in the season…
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
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