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Around SBN: Eden Hazard In London For Medical, According To Reports

A quick org. chart to see where (most) everyone goes

 

I learned a lot about how the A’s operate when I read Moneyball, but the thing that really stuck in my mind was the bit about the board Beane had that showed the depth chart of the entire organization. I wanted a board like that but my wife refused to let me put one up in our bedroom… or in the living room.

 

Our son’s room was also declared off limits.

 

And we didn’t have a garage.

 

So my dream was put on hold by the "sensibilities" of my beloved bride. But my desire for all-encompassing knowledge and power never truly abated (nay it only grew stronger) and as such it was only a matter of time before it came to fruition! Via Excel spreadsheets.

 

 

I mean really, a giant board with magnetic names tags is so archaic.

Star-divide

 

The problem with Excel is it tends to be a pain in the ass to copy over to a fanpost and I’ve seen more than one occasion where people were trying to figure out how the A’s roster is going to shape up, both in Oakland and in minors. Thanks to Google Documents I’m going to be able to post a spreadsheet that will show the starting line-ups for all the A’s affiliates and I’m hereby asking for the link to be posted on AN’s front page in the Minor League side bar. That way anyone interested will be able to look at the whole A’s organization with just one click.

 

That spreadsheet won’t be finished until just before the 2010 season starts but I thought it might be nice if I could help people get a visual idea of how things are shaping up so far this winter. The following is how I think that giant board looks in early January, what with Duke and Cust back in the fold for 2010. Some of this is dead reckoning on my part; other parts come from various scouting outlets. All of it is subject to change come Spring Training.

 

 

Catchers

First Base

DH

MLB

Suzuki/Powell

Barton

Cust

AAA

Donaldson

C. Carter

McPherson

AA

Galarraga

Kleen

Y. Carter

A+

G. Ortiz

 

 

A-

Stassi

Parker

My. Richard

 

 

Second Base

Shortstop

Third Base

MLB

Ellis

Pennington

Chavez

AAA

Chen

Petit

Cardenas

AA

Weeks

Wimberly

 

A+

Coleman

Green

Christian

A-

Leyja

Ladendorf

Spina

 

 

Left Field

Center Field

Right Field

MLB

Crisp

Davis

Sweeney

AAA

Taylor

Brown

Doolittle

AA

Sulentic

Peterson

Desme

A+

 

Thomas

Barfield

A-

Crumbliss

House

Dixon

 

 

Some explanations are in order. Names in bold print are prospects that ranked in the Top 10 for both Scout.com and Baseball Prospectus. Italicized names are players who, regardless of prospect status, I expect to be starting at that position for their particular minor league team. Blank spaces mean I haven’t got a clue; either there are multiple options that don’t stand out enough to declare a front runner (Stockton’s LF) or there simply isn’t anyone obvious to fill the hole (Stockton’s 1B).

 

And don’t get overly caught up with where I position players on a particular roster. For example, Grant Desme has spent most of his career in CF but I have him listed as Midland’s RF. There’s two reasons for that: One is his scouting profile fits better in the corner and the other is Peterson’s bat is weak and if he can’t play solid defense in CF he’s going to struggle to make it in the Show. In spite of that, I foresee Desme and Peterson swapping back and forth between the two positions.

 

Obviously, a lot of familiar names have been left off this org. chart. The benches are going to be in flux from now through ST with a trade or two likely in the works. The A’s outfield situation is nearing critical mass; with a tendency towards a 12 man big league pitching staff and an April schedule with two off days Oakland’s bench isn’t going to be able to hide anyone. Aaron Miles has enough big league experience that he could fight any move to send him down to the minors, even worse; aside from Gregorio Petit, Miles is the only back-up SS on the 40 man roster. Powell is the back-up catcher, leaving no more than two roster spots available for outfielders. Jake Fox can handle spot duty at both the outfield and infield corners, plus he can be a back-up catcher in case Powell is feeling sickly. Buck and Cunningham both have options remaining (although there is nowhere in Sacramento for them to get playing time) so the last spot will go to Scott Hairston. Patterson has better wheels but Hairston’s RH power serves as a better compliment to Crisp/Davis/Sweeney and he plays competent enough defense to handle any outfield spot. (CF on a limited basis, preferably.)

 

Patterson looks to be trade bait, and honestly, so does Aaron Cunningham. I realize Travis Buck is the more expected nearly departed but the fact is Cunningham is a bit more versatile defensively, he has solid enough minor league numbers, he has two options remaining and he’s only going to be 24 next season. Cunningham is the more attractive trade chip and if you want to get any kind of quality return while filling holes elsewhere Cunningham is going to net the A’s more than Buck will.

 

There are probably more than a few names on the org. chart that will spur a question or two and I’ll be happy to answer any that I can. I’m still working on a chart for the pitchers… maybe I’ll take the easy way out and skip doing the bullpens just so se can discuss the starting rotations. It’ll be a few days either way.

 

And thank you for your support.

Comment 115 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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Thanks, Grover

My own assumption is that Hairston will be traded in the next couple of months as part of an effort to find a third baseman.

by richwol1 on Jan 7, 2010 10:22 PM PST reply actions  

Hopefully

Package him with a player or three.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 7, 2010 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

It would have to be a 3B who has at least 1 option year remaining

There’s no way Chavez stays healthy in 2010… but he could be healthy to start the season which means your new 3B would probably need to go to Sac.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 7, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

A great link

I think this may be run by an ANer and I’ve had it bookmarked since forever:

Oakland A’s system depth chart

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jan 7, 2010 10:42 PM PST reply actions  

Interesting...

They need to do some editing though.

Thanks.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 7, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I think it's pretty damn accurate

It just has everyone on the 40 man roster under ML. In season, they update it so it accurately reflects where everyone is playing.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jan 7, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

No need to get defensive

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 7, 2010 11:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Looking at that link

It gives me some ideas on how to make what I want to do even better.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 7, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey look, a backup 2b in rookie ball with my last name.

Sorry, not many Eusebios out there…we have to stick together.

by kidlondon on Jan 8, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Makes sense to me

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Joel Eusebio is the son of an A’s scout. They also had a pitcher named Keith Eusebio in the system a couple of years ago. Not sure if he’s related to the other two.

black dirt live again

by andeux on Jan 8, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey it's andeux!

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

That's mine

and, yeah, during the off-season there is no 25-man roster so I promote everyone on the 40-man roster. Other minor leaguers are left where they finished last year. No predictions.

During the season I keep it updated pretty obsessively.

black dirt live again

by andeux on Jan 8, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I've got it linked now

Wonder is Everidge gets grabbed by another team.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

galarraga won't be at AAA?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 7, 2010 10:54 PM PST reply actions  

I think Donaldson's passed him as a prospect

And I believe the A’s will want Galarraga playing full time. If it turns out his shoulder can’t handle a starter’s innings than he could stay in Sac as the #2 catcher.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 7, 2010 11:02 PM PST up reply actions  

i really doubt they are trading cunningham

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 7, 2010 10:59 PM PST reply actions  

The A's could try to do a roster dump with Hairston or Buck

But I don’t believe either one of them would be the deciding piece in a trade for a 3B, for example. I’m not eager for the A’s to trade Cunningham, I just think he’s the more valuable trade chip.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 7, 2010 11:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Cunningham

Not calling him up last Sept and the trade for Taylor severely diminishes his chances. He has no standout qualities as baseball player, but decent overall. That said, with a good minor league track record and being only 24 his value to other teams might be enhanced compared to his status with the A’s.

by MagicMike23 on Jan 7, 2010 11:38 PM PST up reply actions  

agreed

Cunningham is easily the most desirable trade chip among that list of secondary OF fodder i.e. Buck, Hairston, Cunningham etc.

I also agree that Patterson could be a decent complimentary trading chip, especially after his season at SAC last year and his performance down the line with Oakland. His speed is the type of asset a lot of teams might covet despite the lack of production at the major league level.

If it were up to me, I’d probably rather have Patterson than Miles as our utility man, but as you said, Miles has the upper hand when it comes to experience and ability to handle SS.

by oakballnack on Jan 12, 2010 8:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Doolittle?

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Jan 7, 2010 11:18 PM PST reply actions  

AAA Right Field

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 7, 2010 11:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm assuming they'll give Chris Carter a chance to show he can or can't handle an outfield spot, too

as well as giving Doolittle some time at 1B.

nice work on this, btw. thanks, really makes things nice and clear

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

Goals on Film, coming to San Francisco in 2010

by bobnothing on Jan 7, 2010 11:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Jesus, I dunno how I missed that.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Isn't Taylor more likely to play RF

and Doolittle will be 1B/LF/DH along with Carter.

by DrDoom on Jan 8, 2010 8:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Not especially

Besides, the way Oakland’s outfield is set up LF is the most fluid. If Rajai Davis is for real than Crisp is a short timer. If Davis is a pumpkin than Crisp slides over to CF. Taylor is probably a bit ahead of both Doolittle and Carter on the development curve, meaning he’d get 1st dibs at a full time job in Oakland should an opening occur.

All subject to change once the 2010 season begins, of course.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 8:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Ya I think they like Sweeney in RF

The bad thing would be if Rajai is a pumpkin and Crisp is peanut brittle. Then Sweeney would have to play CF.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Wouldn't Crisp get first crack at CF?

Davis is fast, but I think Crisp has a better track record.

by DrDoom on Jan 8, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

That's not the way I see it

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I remember reading

That Crisp would be the CFer and Davis would slide to LF.

From mlb.com

Crisp will help create one of the best defensive outfields in baseball with Rajai Davis expected to shift from center to left field and Ryan Sweeney to remain in right field.

Of course this could just turn out to be false but it’s still out there for now.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 8, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

The writer was speculating

At no point in that article does Crisp talk about being offered CF by the A’s during the negotiations. He said he preferred CF but he also acknowledged that Davis was the incumbent. I’m sure there’ll be competition for who plays where during ST but I haven’t seen anything that suggests a decision has been made to move Davis to LF now that Crisp is around.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Also Crisp was pretty good in LF for Cleveland and he's coming off

an injury

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions  

according to the cust thread, apparently beane said carter will be in RF.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 7, 2010 11:38 PM PST reply actions  

LF

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 7, 2010 11:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Makes sense

Carter LF, Taylor RF, Doolittle 1B in Sac

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I imagine Doolittle might DH initially sometimes to rest his knee

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 7:41 AM PST up reply actions  

oh. I should read to the end before posting, huh

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

Goals on Film, coming to San Francisco in 2010

by bobnothing on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 PM PST up reply actions  

The A's like having versatile minor leaguers

Doolittle will see time at 1B in addition to RF. When he’s at 1B, Taylor will move over to RF and Carter will go to LF. I also expect to see Cardenas play some 2B so McPherson can get time at 3B.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 7:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Wow, a lot of good work here

What do you think of Alex Valdez? He kind of caught my eye last season and could either return to Midland and take the 3B spot or get the promotion and take either 2B or 3B in Sacramento, wherever Cardenas isn’t playing.

Also kind of interesting that after all the talk about the amount of 1B/DH guys in the system it is really looking barren down in the lower levels.

by OkayJay81 on Jan 8, 2010 12:01 AM PST reply actions  

Valdez isn't going to get much a chance

He’s going to have to take full advantage of any opportunity presented to him. His role and team will be determined in ST. He could go back to Midland and play 3B but he’s got an outside chance to upset Chen and take over 2B in Sac.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 7:58 AM PST up reply actions  

One more random question

Where’s Ryan Ortiz? Is he the good catching Ortiz or is that G. Ortiz? I never remember.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jan 8, 2010 1:15 AM PST reply actions  

Ryan is the guy the A's drafted out of Oregon St.

He put up solid numbers for SS Vancouver and I was all but set to slot him in as Kane County’s back stop when I read from two different sources that the A’s plan to have Stassi be the Cougars’ #1 catcher. So I don’t know where Ryan ends up. I was tempted to bump him all the way to Stockton but that’s going to be dependent on how he performs in ST and since I’m not factoring that which hasn’t happened into this version…

Gabriel Ortiz is a 24 year old catcher out of the Dominican that I know nothing about. He was the last guy squatting in Stockton last year so I kept him in the line-up to start the season.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 8:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Paramore is a candidate for Stockton as well. And Matt Smith.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 8:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, he wasn't very good.

Ryan Ortiz in Stockton eh?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 8:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice one, grover.

You know, having an up-to-date organizational depth chart linked from AN alongside the Community Guidelines and the ANcillary Terms isn’t such a bad idea.

Also, I know I’m tired because I found “My. Richard” to be funny.

Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.

by danmerqury on Jan 8, 2010 2:26 AM PST reply actions  

Shoving guys down a level

I think there’s going to be some unhappy campers, but one solution to this is to “Danny Putnam” some of our OFs.

Travis Buck might be in the four-man AA outfield rotation at the start of next year.

Maybe Sulentic stays down in A+, which opens another slot.

You’re also leaving off Matt Carson, who we signed to a $500,000 minor league contract to be our CF at Sacramento. He’s not just gonna rot there I doubt. I think Corey Brown might remain in CF for Midland next spring at least.

Where’s Anthony Recker? Maybe splitting time with Donaldson, and Donaldson sees some 3b?

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jan 8, 2010 6:27 AM PST reply actions  

I don't see Sulentic getting demoted to Stockton

But I can see Travis Buck… who’s still very much in the plans with the A’s organization… get bumped down to Midland.

I wasn’t leaving off Carson, I just don’t see him as a starter in Sacramento on Opening Day.

And yeah, Recker is the probably back-up in AAA. On those days the River Cats will have a line-up that includes Carter at 1B, Taylor in LF, Doolittle in RF, Donaldson at 3B, Cardenas at 2B, Brown in CF, McPherson at DH. SS Petit will be the only non-lethal hitter in the order! Some Sac pitchers are going to have plenty of run support.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 8:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Why do you think Buck is in their plans?

He’s gotta be behind Taylor, Davis, Sweeney and Carter, right?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm sorry

Since I can’t edit, I promise to ramp up the sarcasm to 11 the next time I speak of Buck.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 8:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Ugh. I'm dense as pea soup.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 8:59 AM PST up reply actions  

mmm, soup

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

Goals on Film, coming to San Francisco in 2010

by bobnothing on Jan 8, 2010 10:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Funny story.

So, every year after Christmas, my mom takes the ham bone that’s left and makes Split Pea Soup with it.

I hate it. Not important. What is important is the weekend after, we were gonna head over there and have leftovers, and there was Split Pea Soup.

Little MikeV #1 (yes, I’ve spawned. Twice. Be Afraid.) was wondering why we were going over to Grandmas house, so I told him that there was still some ham and deviled eggs, and she had made Pea Soup.

The look on his face was fucking fantastic. He asked me in the most innocent six year old voice I’ve ever heard before:

“Is it really made with pee?”

It took me about 5 minutes to compose myself and explain to him what it was.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Jan 10, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

That's awesome.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jan 11, 2010 12:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Luckily, I'm not.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Jan 11, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Is anyone?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jan 11, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I am.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 11, 2010 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Is it really made with pee?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jan 11, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Well done sir.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Jan 12, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Although, to be fair

It’s a lot funnier when it’s verbal, and not written.

by el generico on Jan 12, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

me too.

I love split pea soup….yummy!

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Jan 14, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

That is pretty good

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 11, 2010 8:06 AM PST up reply actions  

OMG!

That child is the split!

by lynnzgal on Jan 11, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd put Valdez at 3B in Midland, although I guess it could be Horton.

Sept 2010 A’s lineup:

RF Sweeney
CF Davis
1B Barton
C Suzuki
DH Carter
LF Taylor
3B Cardenas
2B Ellis
SS ??

Bench – Powell, Fox, Pennington, OF

Basically everyone else can be traded — Hairston, Buck, Cunningham, Crisp, Patterson, Brown, Desme, Sulentic, Donaldson and Doolittle

Some combination of that group should be able to net a decent SS. They can keep Weeks and Green as future lineup components.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 8:04 AM PST reply actions  

You think Crumbliss will begin the season in Kane County?

I was assuming that since he performed well there at the end of last year, and since he’s a little on the oldish side for low A ball, that they would bump him to Stockton to start the season. That would allow Myrio Richard to slot in at OF, Parker moves over to DH, and Aliotti (whose 1B defense the A’s love) gets the most reps at first.

by Spass30 on Jan 8, 2010 9:19 AM PST reply actions  

Crumbliss is another guy who's ST performance will determine his placement

I can easily see him in Stockton with a strong ST.

But like I said at the start… I’m not factoring in information that we don’t have yet.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 9:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Stockton infield should be interesting this year

Given that Coleman’s rep as a defensive SS is slightly better than Green’s, I’m looking forward to seeing how they will share infield duties. Obviously Green is the golden boy, so they will give him as many chances as he needs to prove he can stick there…

Also, you can probably use an egg timer to measure how long Jason Christian is going to be in the A’s long-term plans. He’s not quite good enough with the bat to play third, and Mike Spina, who I think is one of the top 5 candidates for a breakout season, is coming up behind him.

by Spass30 on Jan 8, 2010 10:21 AM PST reply actions  

They could be hyper-aggressive with Christian

They could move him back to SS and put him in Midland (I’d like to see Mr Backflip promoted). Or they could slot him at 3b in AA.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jan 8, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe, but highly unlikely

He’d have to hit the stuffing out of the ball at Stockton to get promoted that fast. Anything’s possible, I suppose, but the odds are pretty high against it.

by Spass30 on Jan 8, 2010 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

I happen to think Christian is a break out candidate in 2010

And if he doesn’t he falls too far behind.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

We'll see

I would like Christian a lot more if he wasn’t at third.

by Spass30 on Jan 8, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure how one can rank Spina over him

He was drafted higher and has better performance numbers, and he was injured for part of last year (thus explaining some of the mediocre performance).

O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?

by PaulThomas on Jan 8, 2010 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I've seen Spine mentioned in the same breath as Youkilis.

Always that desire to be the first one to see it and all that.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 8, 2010 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow. Um. What?

They’re low-drafted collegiate third basemen.

Apart from that I see no resemblance. Youkilis’s K/BB ratio was insane— it was like 0.5/1 in the low minors.

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 8, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Spina and Youkilis were both 3B at U. Cincinnati.

Spina broke a bunch of Youkilis’ batting records there. That’s where the comparison comes from. It’s anecdotal.

by Spass30 on Jan 9, 2010 12:10 AM PST up reply actions  

We have a winner!

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 9, 2010 7:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I see

That’s a pretty poor basis for comparing two guys.

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 9, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

But pretty convenient, you have to admit

we in the losin baseball binness. and cousin, binness is a boomin.

by walk off bunt on Jan 9, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

ALSO THEY BOTH PLAY BASEBALL

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Jan 10, 2010 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure I follow with the performance question

They were both at Kane County last year; Christian hit .261/.341/.385, Spina hit .255/.352/.424. Also, Christian’s worst month was May, which was prior to his shoulder injury in July (did he even come back after the separated shoulder?). Or was there another injury you’re referring to?

Spina also had consistently better numbers in college.

Anyway, Spina was hit in the face with a pitch at Kane County in July, which made him a little gunshy at the plate for a few weeks, according to reports. So if we’re handing out hall passes for injuries, he gets one too.

by Spass30 on Jan 9, 2010 12:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I'll defer to your account of the injuries given my lack of knowledge of the situation

Re: performance, I’m including 2008 as well as baserunning and defense. Christian probably picks up 15 runs a season or so on Spina through those measures (+5 defender versus -5 defender, and 5 more runs for baserunning).

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Jan 9, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a fairly close call between the two

They’re both a long way from the majors. Obviously if Spina continues to slug under .450 during his pro career, he won’t be much of an asset. The expectation would be that his power potential can eventually come into play. This would differentiate him from Christian, who I think is close to fully realized as a hitter; other than maybe boosting his average some, and getting the standard numbers-goosing that results from fleeing the pitchers’ parks of the Midwest League, I don’t think that there’s much more we can expect from him.

The 2008 numbers for Christian I don’t value very highly, especially in comparison to Spina, because Christian was the beneficiary that season of a completely unsustainable .403 BABIP.

I’m looking forward to watching both this upcoming season.

by Spass30 on Jan 11, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Have to agree with you here.

An interesting stat:
Fangraphs rates Jason Christian’s wRC+ in Kane County last year as 117.
This is sort of astounding to me, considering that a .726 OPS doesn’t look like much. It shows how pitching friendly the Midwest League is.
Also a quick minorleaguesplits.com neutralization of park and luck puts his triple slash at .275/.353/.413, which is much more friendly to the eye.

FWIW, Totalzone liked Christian’s first year at 3B, as well.

I think this year just wasn’t nearly as bad as it looked for Christian.

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Jan 8, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Looking over Christian's numbers and his wRC+ and wOBA on Fangraphs again,

I’m a little suspicious there might actually be a mistake in calculation.

Christian’s triple slash was: .261/.341/.385 for a .726 OPS and supposedly a .354 wOBA.
Jeremy Barfield’s triple slash was an almost identical .262/.343/.389 for a .732 OPS, but a more reasonable sounding .335 wOBA.

Anybody have any ideas what’s going on here?

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on Jan 8, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Christian stole 28 bases and was caught 3 times

Barfield stole one base and was caught 5 times

I didn’t recalculate their numbers but that sounds like it should account for part of the difference.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions  

For good measure, Christian grounded into 4 DP, and Barfield 11

but I don’t think that’s included in wOBA

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Statcorner has Christian at .337 wOBA and Barfield at .331

They don’t consider SB/CS in their wOBA, while Fangraphs does.

They also consider “reached on error”, while Fangraphs does not, but I couldn’t find what those were for Christian and Barfield. Park factors are also different, but I don’t know where to find what factors either of them use for KC.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Someone posted this a few days ago

But at least someone thinks that Buck could be good as a Yankee.

http://riveraveblues.com/tag/travis-buck/

I just don’t know who we’d get from them in return that would be worth anything

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

by cuppingmaster on Jan 8, 2010 12:15 PM PST reply actions  

Montero? Joba? Hughes?

OK, maybe Banuelos, Romine or DeLeon?

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Romine isn't a very good match for Oakland

I could see Zach McAllister being a target though, he being sort of a rich man’s Clay Mortensen.

O'Hara: Detective Lassiter is literally on fire.
Spencer: What kind of fire are we talking about-- "Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial" fire, or "misusing the word literally" fire?

by PaulThomas on Jan 8, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure, McAllister would be fine as well.

I’d just want the best players without worrying too much about position though. Prospects are like currency.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

well, I used to have both ot them

no more, no more

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

Goals on Film, coming to San Francisco in 2010

by bobnothing on Jan 8, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Someone posted this a few days ago

But at least someone thinks that Buck could be good as a Yankee.

http://riveraveblues.com/tag/travis-buck/

I just don’t know who we’d get from them in return that would be worth anything

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

by cuppingmaster on Jan 8, 2010 12:16 PM PST reply actions  

Interesting to see him viewed from the other side.

Pretty good analysis, I think. And it amuses me that the same defensive skills that look “meh” to us look fabulous to the Yankees, accustomed as they are to having an outfield filled with guys like Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui.

I wasn’t aware that the Yankees are short on outfield prospects in the high minors. Even if it’s not Buck, seems like a good place for a win-win trade

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jan 8, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Granderson - Gardner - Swisher doesn't sound like a bad outfield.

I think they should have gone for Holliday, but failing that this should work just fine. If anything they need right handed hitter to sub for Granderson. Hairston comes to mind.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Jan 8, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice work, grover.

Thanks for posting this.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jan 8, 2010 5:23 PM PST reply actions  

+1!

A very nice post indeed, grover. Very informative and well executed my friend.

Cheers! MRod

Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox

by mrod on Jan 9, 2010 12:45 AM PST up reply actions  

nice post

Thanks for the interesting post.

I remember reading Mark Shapiro had a super deluxe big magnetic board as well, with all kinds of colors even. Cant remember where I read about that.

by apilgrim on Jan 9, 2010 12:08 AM PST reply actions  

good stuff grover

The only thing I disagree on is regarding to DH. I’d put Fox ahead of McPherson at this point. I think the A’s acquired him thinking DH all the way. McPherson is broken.

Now that Cust is back, he seems like the perfect platoon candidate. I don’t see Cust in the everyday lineup against lefties.

Oh yeah, and 3B looks pretty bare. Cardenas or bust I suppose.

"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane

by pickinmachine on Jan 9, 2010 1:52 PM PST reply actions  

McPherson is tagged as the AAA DH

Mis-read or are you saying Fox belongs in AAA to start 2010?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jan 9, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

...misread

Still think Fox will spend more time at DH then the field. At least I hope so, since he’s a liability out there.

"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane

by pickinmachine on Jan 9, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

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