Why Billy Beane Has Had Not A Good -- But A Great -- Off-Season
UPDATE, 5:25pm PST. According to Jane Lee, the A's have signed OF Gabe Gross to a 1-year deal worth $750,000 plus incentives that could bring the total deal up to $1,000,000.
I try to call 'em as I see 'em, which sometimes puts me in the position of criticizing the One In Whom We Trust. Today, I offer one of those articles I hope Mr. Beane should happen to see -- because I have only good things to say, and I have a lot of them.
Process, Not Just Outcome
First of all, I think Beane has to get due credit for the players whom he gave "the ol' college try" to add, and that means acknowledging that he made truly competitive, multi-year offers to Marco Scutaro and Adrian Beltre, before saying "Well you can't make them sign" and using that money to add more pitching (Justin Duchscherer, Ben Sheets) when that's what was out there. This is the off-season where Beane finally made repeated efforts to improve the left side of the infield, not just for 2010 but for several seasons. Even though in the end only Kouzmanoff was added, when you go "all out" for Scutaro, then Beltre, then Kouzmanoff, all as 3-year solutions, you've addressed the left side of the infield for real.
Fixing Mistakes
Meanwhile, most of the moves Beane has made have solved multiple problems at once. For example, while giving the A's a chance to trot out an excellent starting rotation in 2010, he has also pulled a Kendall/Rhodes and offered the club an opportunity to get back the lost year of service time from Trevor Cahill. If keeping Cahill in the big league rotation all last season was a mistake, the some of the mistake is being undone. In other words, don't think of it so much as having lost a Carlos Gonzalez as having gained a Michael Taylor.
Duke & Sheets
Honestly, I never thought I'd see Justin Duchscherer throw another pitch for the A's. His return is a tribute not only to Beane's wisdom in recognizing a damn good pitcher when he sees one, but also to his management skills in knowing that sometimes you "pay it forward" when you treat players as people first and prioritize "baseball," "business," and "life" in the correct order.
I have, in the past, been known to criticize Beane for treating players as "commodities" or acting too "corporate" in one way or another, and I don't know whether he has changed or whether my perspective has changed, but I have seen many examples recently of exactly the opposite. It has made me proud and it has made the A's a better baseball team.
I think the Sheets signing is brilliant. Starting pitching wins games, and nowadays you seem to need at least 8 good starting pitchers just to field one good rotation for a year. The A's might actually have that. If you're going to roll the dice, you may as well do it on the health of starting pitchers who are really, really good when they can pitch, and the A's found a way to add not one but two of those.
Giving Me "All I Can Ask For"
Especially during a rebuilding process, all I feel I can really ask for is a team that could be a contender if things roll right. That's not mutually exclusive from a team that could lose 90 games -- injuries and the development of young talent can quickly turn a team from better than average to "wait'll next year." Let's not get carried away: The A's outfield could combine to hit 15 HRs and that's not a good thing. But I also don't have to squint too hard to see how the A's could surprise, if health and development roll their way.
The starting rotation, with Brett Anderson as the #3 starter, could be as good, top to bottom, as any in the league. The bullpen could be, and probably will be, one of the very best in all of baseball. Defense will be a strength. Daric Barton and Ryan Sweeney have the tools, and are young enough, that a jump in offensive production in 2010, following a "2009 to build on" is quite possible.
As for depth, currently Jack Cust is backed up by Jake Fox, Rajai Davis and Coco Crisp by each other, Gio Gonzalez by Vin Mazzaro by Trevor Cahill -- heck, even Kouzmanoff by the tattered remnants of what archeologists believe were an Eric Chavez and a Dallas McPherson.
And all this is without even mentioning 3 potentially exciting hitters who are on the way sooner rather than later. Is this a good team? Don't know yet. Is it a bad one? Not really. Is it a great time to be an A's fan? I think so.
Speaking of great, armed with Cindi's "Omigod This Is Sooooooo Much Better Than Shari's!!!!" Potato Salad, I'm off to fANfest to ransack Optimist Prime's place when he isn't looking have a fun time with my fellow fans. Catch you later!
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Comments
I've enjoyed this off season too
Taylor rocks my world to be honest, in a way that Wallace didn’t.
That’s what she said
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
Beane good
GM know his stuff.
A’s win 2010…Mariners crumble…Angels choke
Go A’s Go
(Me stop talk like caveman Geico)
Where are your Teen Angels? and, am I dating myself with that reference, and being
divorced and single. I guess I am dating myself.
by theblackpearl on Jan 31, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
I like what Beane has done too...
I think the off season has been very productive. My favorite move was the Kouzmanoff trade. I think both Kouzmanoff and Sogard will each give the A’s more than Hairston or Cunningham.
by Bay Area Sports Fan on Jan 31, 2010 8:18 AM PST reply actions
Great article
I just wish bb will finish up this off season with picking up a real option at the utility INF role, and put all rumors about Jonny “capt. Caveman” Damon to rest, by breaking his code of silence and easing our minds.
Can we get a cherry on top?
When its time to shoot, shoot... don't talk
by Charlie O the Mule on Jan 31, 2010 8:33 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Duke & Sheets
I never thought Duchscherer would resign, so that was a surprise. I got about 14 fist pumps out of that one. Then Ben Sheets, the guy rumored to go to every team but the A’s over the last couple months. I was looking to dish out a couple chest bumps for that signing, but found no takers.
Without these two, the A’s are easily the worst team in the AL West. Now Beane has added a 1 and a 2, who are essentially replacing the 4 and the 5, which improves their chances to win 40% of their games by 60%.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 31, 2010 8:40 AM PST reply actions
That's 100%!
The A’s shall go undefeated!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Easily
After updating my MLB ’09: The Show rosters with the moves and what not, I did an 8-0 crushing of the Marlins. They owe me Hanley Ramirez and that makes our roster complete. By the way, I hit a two-run home run with Kevin Kouzmanoff!
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 31, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
Ben Sheets was totally rumored to go to the A's...
That signing was not a bolt from the blue.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Maybe on AN
I don’t recall reading a Sheets to the A’s rumor on a slightly less biased website until two days before he signed.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 31, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Sheets
Buster Olney was talking about the A’s and their possibility of signing him.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 31, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
Andris Biedrins fan club meeting?
"They (The 1989 A's) are the best team I ever saw"- Mike Krukow
by 9Custs on Jan 31, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
It must take hours...
to perfect the “we just stepped on a landmine” cut.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
What the hell are those things???
"To tell the truth, I'm not excited to go to Cleveland, but we have to. If I ever saw myself saying I'm excited going to Cleveland, I'd punch myself in the face, because I'm lying" - Ichiro
by Philip Christy on Feb 1, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
gremlins.
don’t feed em after midnight, don’t get em wet, don’t give em Axe body spray.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 1, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
Oh no.
I know what you’re trying to do, Nico. You’re trying to get me excited (about the upcoming season…duh). It’s not going to work. I’ve been bitten in places where no man should be bitten. I’ve fallen in love with this team in July too many times, and it’s NOT going to happen again!
Wait, this isn’t the Raider site?
Oh.
Never mind.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Let's. Go. OAKLAND!
Oakland A's, Oakland Haze, Nothin' Beats Livin' By Your Oakland Bays
by DyeLongJustice on Jan 31, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
clap, clap, clapclapclap?
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 31, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Can we please bring back the classic
LETS GO A’S LETS GO A’S LETS GO A’S LETS GO A’S
Please!!!
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
we'll save that one for when they move to San Jose, or Fremont...
Or wherever it is that Lew wants to move them to.
does it mean we have to get rid of the let
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 1, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
's go oakland chant?
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 1, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
agree about Beane rectifying mistakes
such as not adding a veteran starter last offseason, and also not addressing the third base issue earlier.
The Kouzmanoff trade was necessary, and he did it without giving up the bank. The Sheets signing was terrific. I’d rather have Sheets – a top of the rotation starter who has had proven success – and hope he stays healthy (and get Alejo to work out a program designed to keep him healthy), than a pitcher with a healthier history who is not as good.
I too am glad that Duchscherer was signed, but I still think he must be considered an injury risk as that is his major league history, particularly as a starter.
I won't rehash this, but "without giving up the bank" is a phrase that continues to irk be with regards to that trade
But, again, I just see Cunningham as a special player and I don’t think Kouzmanoff plays 3 seasons in Oakland. Still, I like Beane’s offseason overall, I guess. The Fox trade was fairly pointless if he planned on re-signing Cust all along, but he didn’t really give up anything. I just hope Aaron Miles doesn’t receive a single at bat that matters.
www.zekeishungry.com
Soon you will be the only remaining holdout.
It’s been interesting to watch the community’s opinions of Cunningham and Sogard evolve in opposite directions over the past few weeks, as the endowment effect wanes for the one and waxes for the other. How long before people start saying they wouldn’t give up Sogard for Cunningham straight up?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I honestly never saw Cunningham
As anything more than a 4th outfielder, maybe here and there starter, maybe full time starter for a year or two at best, on a bad team kind of player.
I mean really. What is it people really liked about the guy other than “grit?” (I agree with PT’s hate – sorry for words in the mouth if i’m wrong on this – for the transparent, STILL, usage by white announcers, pundits and fans of grit onto mostly white players.)
Cunningham had some pretty good minor league seasons, but they weren’t off the charts good and that usually portends OK at best. He doesn’t have the size to be a slugger, isn’t really a CF, and well, he seems THE definition of 4th OF.
Deswho?
by supersugarCrisp on Jan 31, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
It has NOTHING to do with grit. I actually never considered him a gritty player.
It’s his near .900 OPS in AAA that makes me think the A’s made a huge mistake here.
www.zekeishungry.com
JD's Cunningham love is genuine.
For the rest of us it’s probably 90% endowment effect, which is why it’s so fun to watch it shift over to Sogard now.
(Also, he was Tintin. But then Sogard is Ikea, so I guess that’s a wash.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Beane continues to impress, given his constraints.
Kouzmanoff shores up the left side for the moment. I think he’s relying on developing the proverbial “power threat” from within the existing organization, but I also believe he has little choice in the matter. Our rotation looks down right formidable on paper. I think it’s reasonable to expect a couple of the young starters to sharpen their game this season. The pen will be lights out. A couple of decent breaks and things could very well go our way. What more can you expect out of our GM? He’s given us a legitimate reason to be optimistic about the season.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Bullpen pitching is the least consistent from year to year.
That is, the correlation of how good a guy was last year and how good he’ll be this year is weaker for relievers than for any other position. The A’s have profited from this past by selling off “good” relief pitchers and grabbing up “bad” relief pitchers on the cheap.
But another consequence of this fact is that we’re assuming too much when we credit our bullpen for being better than any other team’s. Yes, it is. Sort of. But it’s not at all unlikely that one or two or our “lights-out” relievers will turn into junk while on some other team some guy picked up off the scrapheap turns out to be a star. It happens all the time. Heck, we saw both on the A’s just last year.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Eh
Bullpen pitchers whose peripherals actually support their performance are pretty consistent. No one thinks Mariano Rivera is suddenly going to turn into a pumpkin next season.
Except for Breslow, all the A’s bullpen pitchers have peripherals that back up their performance. This is not a 2005-Neil-Cotts scenario here.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I didn't realize that. Good to know.
I still don’t feel as confident in our bullpen as many people here seem to be. I just don’t think any bullpen is ever anything close to a sure thing.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I think the depth is what's different
One guy will get hurt and one will disappoint — yet the pen will still be outstanding.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
fANfest
"When you go to a club at 4 in the morning, and you’re just waiting, waiting, a 600-pounder looks like J. Lo. And to me this is Jennifer Lopez right here. It’s 4 in the morning. Too much to drink. So, Nationals: Jennifer Lopez to me." - Julián Tavárez
by YonYonson on Jan 31, 2010 10:57 AM PST via mobile reply actions
nice banner.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 31, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
OMG the battle plans
Now I propose we use that and march south, cut off those guys across the bay and also take the AL West.

100% Athletics, 100% Baseball. 2009 Athletics, 40% Baseball.
by fruitattack on Jan 31, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
A's added hitting by trading away their hitting.
Look at the giants for example, they have offensive issues. Yet Sabean is so dead set on not trading away their pitching depth, which has limited their potential trades. The A’s kept their pitching core in tact and continued to add to it by signing Duke and Sheets. The only pitcher traded away this offseason was Jeff Gray and it remains to be seen if he’s anything more than a middle reliever. Who wouldve been headed back to AAA with the bullpen depth.
Overall, I'm pleased with what Beane has done this off-season.
I think he’s been able to strike a good balance between trading FOR this season while not losing too much… if anything… from the future.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Well put.
We started this offseason with a very impressive future, looking to come together around 2011 or 2012, but the current team sucked. Now the current team sucks not nearly as much, but very little of the future has been given up to achieve it.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
You could argue NONE of the future has been given up.
Grey was a marginal relief pitcher. Cunningham wasn’t necessary. Wallace was replaced with someone equally as talented.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
I count Cunningham as some future.
I know that others don’t.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I'm with you and jd
I miss me some Cunningham
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jan 31, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
A future as what?
A maybe 4th outfielder in the Padres system?
Thats how you should now be seeing him.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Maybe a 4th outfielder.
Maybe a high OBA #2 hitter. I think either is a real possibility at this point. He should get 200 at bats in the sencd half with us, We’ll see what he’s got then.
It’s too soon to cap his future at this point.
"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
It's been a solid offseason, but not great
The Kouz trade was nice. The Sheets signing was very exciting. You can’t argue with Duke. But the original Cust DFA? It showed that Beane was willing to give up Jack just to save a million or so. Maybe he played the market, but that’s very risky. The Crisp signing? Very meh. The A’s will enter the season with a bunch of players whose value will only go down: I’m looking at you Wuertz, Davis, and Pennington. The A’s still lack a future SS if Green busts. And I don’t see how it’s a good thing if your Plan A (Beltre), B (Scoot), and C (Chapman) all turn you down.
Still the positives outweigh the negatives (at least to a fan in January they do), and I won’t lie: I’m excited about this team.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Scoot signed before Beltre...
So how can Plan B come before Plan A?
Also, I don’t think leaving Cust to the open market was about saving a million bucks and it wasn’t a great risk. If Cust didn’t resign, the team would probably be very much the same and Fox would just get those ABs.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Now just don't sign Gross
What’s with the Gross interest?
I swear, if Beane doesn’t give Buck another shot, Buck will go somewhere else and figure it out.
This may be irrational fear on my part, sure. I just feel Beane’s past lack of “feel” for the ebbs and flows of hitters due to health, inspiration, and usage could rear its ugly head again.
I know it was when Buck hadn’t been figured out by the league yet that he had his one really good stretch of hitting. But whether it was health or suckitude lately, Buck DOES have the size to slug, and he isn’t useless in the field.
Now Buck has seen the whole circle. Great start. HIgh expectations. Injuries. Back and forth to AAA. Etc. To my thinking, this is when young players GET IT. This is when they push extra in the offseason. It’s when they get their mind right and put the blame on themselves and FOCUS.
If Beane doesn’t sense this (and in the past he’s shown this) i wouldn’t be at all surprised if Buck goes somewhere else and finally hits again.
Deswho?
by supersugarCrisp on Jan 31, 2010 1:56 PM PST reply actions
It's irrational to expect that someone getting hurt for several years...
and sucking for those years in AAA to suddenly “get it”. If Buck is in AAA, stays healthy, plays well, and forces the issue… then we can all bitch about him not getting his chance. But let’s not bitch until he’s played 50 straight games and is OPSing over .850 in AAA.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
I'm not saying start him or even have him on the 25 man
But don’t push him out the door with no opportunity to fill in for injuries, prove he’s “gotten it,” or even win a job in spring.
That’s all i’m saying. I have a (sure, my thing) sense that the psychology of what Buck’s been through and the guy he is will see him put it together soon, if healthy.
I think he had a big head and always knew success coming out of ASU. Then he gets to the bigs quickly. Then he mashes out of the gate.
It takes a few mental stages to get through the first failure in your life. I think he’s probably gone through the cycle, finally, now and is focussed to prove himself.
Things like this are the little things that teams need to have a sense of, to go with their stats oriented view. The psychology of the players has to be sensed. Like all the times Beane has gotten players who performed elsewhere but not for the A’s. Some players need the energy in the stands the A’s often don’t have. Some players cannot hit in the cold air in Oakland. Some (i think) don’t really like what the A’s are perceived to be about and sometimes all these factors add up to see guys just not be the kind of players Beane should have expected to do well in Oakland.
These guys get traded out of Oakland, play in front of bigger crowds, in warmer weather and for organizations that aren’t (wrong or right) seen as robot-like. If Buck is given the chance, why wouldn’t he figure it out? It seems he’s got the size and skill to hit, just injuries and the aforementioned mental factors stopped him. Seems to me he’s more likely to figure it out than not and i’d like to see that with the A’s, at least until you know for sure what you have. I don’t think the A’s or us know what we have in Buck yet. With that size and swing i think it’s worth it to make sure.
Deswho?
by supersugarCrisp on Jan 31, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah... he can prove himself...
in AAA while playing in enough games to prove he’s healthy.
If he’s figured it out, then he’ll push the issue in June or July. But if he should be playing everyday, then the A’s getting a 4th or 5th OF who is not in the future plans of the team has nothing to do with Buck.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Hmm
Sure, let Buck and Taylor get ABs in Sac. But doesn’t there have to be a better, just as obscure and cheap or cheaper option than Gross who’s better?
I guess i didn’t do my homework and scan the available. But wow, Gross?!
Deswho?
by supersugarCrisp on Jan 31, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
He plays above average D and hit righties at an average clip...
and will probably be signed for around 1 or 2 million bucks. What’s not to like?
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Other than signing Coco Crisp
which makes no sense to me at all, I like everything the A’s have done this offseason.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Crisp
It’s whatever. He probably won’t be back in 2010 with Taylor in left field.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 31, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
He won't be back in 2010?
Wow, Coco we hardly knew ye.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sigh
I blame television.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 31, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
Good call.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
A little, but I still don't like it.
I don’t think he’s very good at baseball, and I don’t think there’s much reason to expect him to bounce back.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
we signed Crisp?
oh yeah, yeah…..so much has transgressed since.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
TransGRESSed?
Father Desme is displeased.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
transGROSSed?
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 1, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
On the ol' college try front
Don’t forget about Aroldis Chapman— good to see the A’s staying aggressive in the international market.
The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart
by Hegenberger Road on Jan 31, 2010 2:11 PM PST reply actions
I'd say its been one of his greatest offseasons.
Here’s why:
Last year Wolff said “GET BATS”, he did, they failed. This year he went back to what he knows plays best at the Coli: pitching and defense. Even though they are flawed players, Duke+Sheets have Cy Young ceilings when healthy. Getting both might be one of the most important moves of this offseason.
Beane went against last years’ Holliday+G-Man+Cust all hitting lineup and stacked the defense as much as he could. We now are the only team in baseball with plus defenders at every position. This is going to lead to some remarkably low ERAs from all the staff, if you play fantasyball at least, this is the year to grab any and every A’s pitcher you can. But this is important: his goal was clear and he stuck to it (I dont believe we were ever interested in Damon for a second). Even if Gross comes on board: hey look its another plus defender. I dont think there’s ever been a team like this other than the 85 Cardinals, that’s been so focused on defense&speed. In many ways its like a little test just to see how important those things are in the modern game.
Best of all, its simply another year “rebuilding while contending” but this time it looks better than 08+09 because we know even crappy pitchers like DiNardo & Tomko can pitch well here, but we cant wait to see what Sheets does. Taylor & Carter & Cardenas are waiting in the wings and look to provide the offensive noise in the 2nd half and 2011. This is hands down the most exciting wave of young players we have all had come up around the same time since the Canseco/McGwire era.
The Kouzmanoff trade was excellent because he’s a guy who had been handicapped by playing in SD. Moving to AL might cancel that out, but I dont think so. He’s also young and fits right into our core crop of players. The severe lack of depth out there at 3B & SS means that if he’s just league average, thats a huge coup for Beane.
I think he housed the Jays in getting Taylor for Wallace. The odds of that being like trading Hafner for Winfield are higher than any other comparable for the two. Wallace is a slow fat DH type, Taylor looks like the best athlete in the game. Both can hit like crazy, but my money is on Taylor having a more relevant career than Wallace.
I honestly don’t think Beane could have done any better. Perhaps signing Lopez for the MI bench spot or trading for Jed Lowrie for Pennington insurance would be a fine cap on the offseason, but Beane has already gotten an A from this writers’ eyes.
I'm very excited about Beane's moves too...
But… it’ll be EXTREMELY hard to beat the Giambi, Tejada, Mulder, Zito, Hudson, Hernandez, Ellis crew that came up around 1999-2000.
That crew had a couple MVPs and Cy Youngs… not to mention a nice streak of playoff appearances.
The chances of this new crew doing that are not very high.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Ellis was a minor league piece in the trade that brought Damon to Oakland in 2001
Ellis himself didn’t make the big club until 2002.
the others – Giambi, Tejada, Zito, Hudson, and Hernandez – were originally signed by the A’s and came up in their organization. As assistant GM Beane may have had something to do with some of those signings, but they were all in the organization by the time he became GM
I was wrong about Ellis, but I still don't see your point.
PL78 said the following: This is hands down the most exciting wave of young players we have all had come up around the same time since the Canseco/McGwire era.
I pointed out that the A’s core that came up around 2000 will be pretty tough to beat.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
referring to Beane's' moves
the crew that came up were not the products of trades, and perhaps were not really signed by Beane either. That’s all I was referring to, since this thread is about Beane’s trade and signing moves.
I do agree with you, by the way, that it was really exciting when they came up to the big show. I was fortunate to watch it as it happened.
Bring back Grady Fuson!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
You misconstrued my comment pretty hard.
What I said meant that that wave of guys you mentioned were touted as being anything but low B-grade prospects. No one on earth saw Tejada as anything but a utility man until he used steroids out of nowhere blew his ceiling out of the water. Bottom line: No one knew Miggy or Giambi or Zito would do what they did, they exceeded their ceilings as prospects. The ones we have now coming up now DO have those lofty ceilings, and we as fans are much, much excited over them than we were in the late 90s.
That's not true.
I was with the A’s when Giambi was drafted. He was a 2nd round pick expected to be a great hitter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Expected by you, maybe, but not by the guys
who write Baseball America’s prospect rankings.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
BA top 100 lists for every year are available on the internet
i’m too lazy to check but i’m pretty sure most of the top a’s players from the early 2000s are on there.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
They have lists going back to 1990
You can read them all here.
Of the guys mentioned above, Tejada was ranked #6 in 1997 and #10 in 1998. Mulder was ranked #27 in 1999 and #12 in 2000. Ramon Hernandez was ranked #74 in 1998, and Zito was ranked #41 in 2000.
Tim Hudson, Mark Ellis, and Jason Giambi never cracked the top 100 in any year. (Jeremy Giambi, then with the Royals, was ranked #64 in 1999, a decision which may or may not have been partially influenced by the success Jason was having in the big leagues that year.) Two other guys from that era who were much more highly ranked were Ben Grieve and Eric Chavez.
Here’s a list of A’s prospects in the top 100 for each year.
2009 #7 Brett Anderson #11 Trevor Cahill #54 Michael Ynoa #55 Aaron Cunningham #74 Adrian Cardenas #76 Chris Carter #97 Gio Gonzalez 2008 #22 Carlos Gonzalez #26 Gio Gonzalez #36 Brett Anderson #48 Daric Barton #60 Fautino de los Santos 2007 #50 Travis Buck #67 Daric Barton #89 Kurt Suzuki 2006 #28 Daric Barton #74 Javier Herrera #83 Cliff Pennington 2005 #24 Nick Swisher #32 Daric Barton #43 Dan Meyer #68 Javier Herrera #97 Huston Street 2004 #32 Bobby Crosby #43 Joe Blanton 2003 #29 Rich Harden 2002 #5 Carlos Peña #91 Eric Byrnes 2001 #34 Jose Ortiz #59 Jason Hart #81 Ryan Ludwick #84 Justin Miller 2000 #12 Mark Mulder #41 Barry Zito #53 Jesus Colome #90 Mario Encarnacion #93 Adam Piatt 1999 #3 Eric Chavez #27 Mark Mulder #53 Eric DuBose #95 Chad Harville 1998 #1 Ben Grieve #10 Miguel Tejada #30 Eric Chavez #42 A.J. Hinch #74 Ramon Hernandez #100 Chris Enochs 1997 #6 Miguel Tejada #18 Ben Grieve #53 Eric Chavez #91 Brad Rigby 1996 #37 Ben Grieve #84 John Wasdin #85 Brad Rigby #87 Steve Cox #88 Miguel Tejada 1995 #10 Ben Grieve #53 John Wasdin #97 Jose Herrera 1994 #12 Steve Karsay #97 Jose Herrera #98 Curtis Shaw 1993 #7 Todd Van Poppel #56 Brent Gates #76 Curtis Shaw 1992 #2 Todd Van Poppel #43 Mike Neill #65 David Zancanaro #88 Scott Erwin 1991 #1 Todd Van Poppel #27 Kirk Dressendorfer #54 Don Peters 1990 #54 Felix Jose #64 Joe Slusarski #71 Darren Lewis
With 100 prospects named from 30 teams, on average each team ought to average three and one-third on the list per year. Looks like the A’s have done better than average in most years. Interesting that BA likes our system even more in 2008 and 2009 than it did in the late 1990s (though they liked it quite a bit then, too).
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
"Interesting that BA likes our system even more in 2008 and 2009 than it did in the late 1990s (though they liked it quite a bit then, too)."
Yeah, because that was what was just argued against what I said, sheesh.
You know guys, there’s being “cautious” then theres flat out being ignorant and I feel like thats what going on here. People are just straight up being scared little babies with what we have right now. It sucks that my POSITIVE opinion is looked down upon, when really, its completely relevant. Stop being scared everyone, we have unreal prospects who are going to be awesome big leaguers. Im truly bummed that people are so scared of recognizing this.
No, people have every right to be "cautious" and people have every right to be realistic.
Taylor, Carter, Cardenas are great prospects. But the A’s prospects of the late 90s (Chavez, Zito, Mulder, Grieve, Tejada, etc) are just on a whole different level. This line here:
No one on earth saw Tejada as anything but a utility man until he used steroids out of nowhere blew his ceiling out of the water. Bottom line: No one knew Miggy or Giambi or Zito would do what they did, they exceeded their ceilings as prospects.
is just flat out inaccurate. And with prospects, you can never say something like:
Stop being scared everyone, we have unreal prospects who are going to be awesome big leaguers.
and expect to be taken seriously. You can’t predict inevitable “awesome” from any prospect, no matter how high they’re rated. In fact, realistically, the odds are quite against all three of Carter, Taylor, and Cardenas turning out to be above average big leaguers. Considering that ~95% of A’s fans were big fans of Daric Barton pre 2008, you probably were one too. How do you feel about him now? That guy was the closest thing to a “sure thing” since Chavvy. Eh, such is the nature of prospecting.
Your optimistic attitude towards the team’s prospects is nice and all, but please don’t belittle other people who have decided to adopt a more realistic attitude towards the prospects.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I'm pretty optimistic about Barton now.
He’ll probably be an average 1B this year and is likely to improve over the next 3-4 years barring further diving accidents.
But baseball! Fuck yeah! -- lynnzgal
by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2010 3:45 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with this.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Does "PL" stand for "PoLlyanna"?
You must not have been around prospecting long enough. Go look at Sickels’s top 50 lists from five years ago that he just posted a few days back at minorleagueball. He makes a living analyzing this stuff… and yet like 50% of the guys on those lists (roughly the top 100 prospects of 2005) look like worthless garbage at this point.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
because taylor wasn't with the a's yet?
i’m assuming barton made the top 100 list with the cardinals.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
ACK!
Make the Van Poppel go away! Make the Van Poppel go away!
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Feb 1, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
This is a blantant lie
Tejada was never seen as utility infielder. BA twice ranked him in the top ten of their league prospects list. He was seen as a raw and unpolished prospect who had huge potential.
Zito was a legitimate top 10 overall draft talent. Giambi was no slouch either, and while he may have exceeded expectations, if you are using steriods as a disqualifier, then surely Canseco should get the same treatment?
I'd liked to have seen Hardy with the A's, but other than that, Beane's done just about everything
one could reasonably hope. It’s not his fault that the Brewers love Carlos Gomez for whatever reason.
But baseball! Fuck yeah! -- lynnzgal
I would have taken Iwamura as a backup who plays a ton too
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Iwamura as a backup?
He’d start on the A’s.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Whoever, as long as they wash the Sheets!
Oakland A's, Oakland Haze, Nothin' Beats Livin' By Your Oakland Bays
by DyeLongJustice on Jan 31, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
I dunno, I think there's a number of bad moves on the list of off-season moves
I just don’t see this as a great offseason. I think it’s pretty easy to argue against it being even “good” at this point.
For example, what’s the point in giving a million bucks to a defensive replacement when your starting OF will never need one?
www.zekeishungry.com
The value of defensive replacements is so near zero as makes almost no odds
The difference between a guy who’s -15 runs per full season and a guy who’s +15 runs per full season is 30 runs over approximately 1440 innings, or about 2 runs per 100 innings.
A defensive replacement might, optimistically, play 100 innings as an actual mid-game replacement. Even a change of that magnitude, you’re looking at a couple of runs per season. I mean, I guess it’s better to have a defensive replacement when your starter is epically bad in the field, but the difference just isn’t that large.
By contrast, the guy might play 500+ innings as an injury/day-off fill-in for the starting lineup. In that situation his value over the guy he’s replacing is irrelevant, because the guy he’s replacing isn’t available.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Besides trading away Cunningham, what else do you see as a bad move?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
possibly the coco crisp signing?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
I like what Beane did not do
Did not resign Tomko
Did not resign Kennedy
Not sure about the Cust signing at any price as I believe we have better internal options that deserve a go.
Who gets dropped from the 40 man roster with the Gross signing?
I didn’t mean to say it was a gross signing. I think Petit is gone, but Eveland could be another option, with the crowded rotation.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 31, 2010 7:46 PM PST reply actions
It would be incredibly stupid to DFA the backup shortstop.
Aaron Miles can only play there in the way Daric Barton can be a catcher.
www.zekeishungry.com
I like the creativity
Beane & Co. are showing, this years strategy has a far better chance of working then signing all those has beens last year, but results not effort count to me. I’m a paYing customer and I want an enjoyable product that wins games. I would see if they can play .500 ball or at least something close before you put your lips on Beane’s butt.
Creativity doesn't hit home runs
There is no power in the line up. Good defense. Good pitching. If they are lucky health-wise, they’ll do what the Giants did last year and get not quite enough wins to make the playoffs. If they aren’t – Sheets has arm trouble, Chavez never plays, etc. – 83 wins would be a fantastic year for them. There are a lot of people smoking happy cigarettes here.
































