Kouzmanoff + For Hairston & Cunningham -- 4 Reasons To Like This Trade
by Nico on Jan 15, 2010 8:02 PM PST
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PrintI've generally been lukewarm on Kevin Kouzmanoff throughout his career and I like Aaron Cunningham. Yet I solidly approve of the trade (Kouzmanoff and AA middle infielder Eric Sogard for Scott Hairston and Aaron Cunningham). Here are a few reasons why:
1. If you're concerned that Kouzmanoff doesn't hit enough, at an "offensive position" on a team lacking enough offense as it is, remember that if the A's landed Adrian Beltre long-term it was going to be with the plan in mind that sooner rather than later, heavy hitters like Michael Taylor and Chris Carter will be arriving to supplement the "good defense, additional pop" a Kouzmanoff or Beltre can give you as an anchor at 3B. The A's have Kouzmanoff under contract for 3 years, finally solving a crisis that has been unsolved for exactly that long.
2. Kouzmanoff's defense isn't as awesome as the fielding percentage he put up in 2009, nor is fielding percentage even the best gauge for a 3Bman's defense. His range is just decent, and his errors will inevitably increase from 2009 to 2010. But what's real is that his defense has improved over recent seasons, and he's only 28. It's perfectly reasonable to expect that his 2009 season was closer to "the 2010 truth" than his worst defensive season was. The A's have themselves a solid defensive 3Bman who can hit 20+ HRs. That's good.
3. Depth chart and need matter. Aaron Cunningham may turn out to be a solid player, but in the near future Coco Crisp, Rajai Davis, and Ryan Sweeney are set in the OF, and soon Michael Taylor will be in the big leagues, with Sean Doolittle, Chris Carter, and Corey Brown pushing shortly thereafter. In other words, the A's aren't likely to miss Cunningham, even if he turns out to be good.
4. Scott Hairston is a decent player, but for whatever reason he seemed to present himself in a way that the A's didn't like. They wanted to move him, and he wasn't in their plans. This doesn't speak to Hairston's OPS+, WAR, or "oozer," past or future, but once a player falls out of favor with an organization his value to that team is less. It can still be someone else's gain and not be as big a loss to the current team.
The A's just traded from depth to fill need -- the thing we've been asking begging pleading with them to do for years. Whether Billy Beane has assembled the right players to compete or contend, now or soon, remains to be seen. But with the re-signings of Justin Duchscherer and Jack Cust, the pursuits of Marco Scutaro and Adrian Beltre, and finally the acquisition of Kouzmanoff, you can't say he hasn't given it his all. Well done, Billy.
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We didn't need Cunningham... we needed a 3B.
It’s as simple as that.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Pretty much.
It doesn’t really matter all that much if San Diego got a win or two more than we did in this trade—we traded from a position of strength to fill weaknesses.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
As always, in Billy we trust...
"The only way I'm going to get a Gold Glove is with a can of spray paint." - Reggie Jackson
by the_rozeboom on Jan 16, 2010 7:43 AM PST up reply actions
I want to know who it was
a week or so ago who suggested Hairston might be traded back to SD, and a “few” folks chuckled at that poster. And I’m way too lazy to go look.
And while you're up...
…can you make me a sandwich?
"Tarry not on the subject, danmerqury, for the heathen will surely be cleansed by the hellefire cast downe upon him by Bill James Moste High, praise his name."
by LongLiveLangerhans on Jan 16, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
excuse me.
the correct spelling and pronunciation has been, is, and always shall be “sammich.”
Recognize.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
That's if you're a 12 year old girl or trying to sound silly.
“Sammich” actually bugs the hell out of me.
TEXAS FIGHT
Iglew said someone suggested it
I replied sarcastically.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
It was padmadfan, a San Diego Padres fan.
He’s posted a few times on this thread and the previous one.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Ah, I see. Good call, PL.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I also said something
later about a random padre fan.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
out of interest,
how is Gallagher perceived by Padres fans / front office currently?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
if yor name is randy, and are a friend of mine then yes
otherwise no.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
We haven't seen enough of him
To render an opinion yet. We just view them (Gallegher, Webb, Italiano) as having plus stuff and needing playing time and development.
Personally, I’m concerned about Gallegher getting hammered in winterball and there seems to be a lot of antipathy on this board about him. So “cautiously optimistic” is probably how I view him. I’m real high on Webb and so-so on Italiano.
Interesting, thanks
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
strangely enough,
your friend Randy, the Padres fan, is a random Padres fan to me.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
Your randy friend is padre Randy Ready.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Padre Reddy was randomly randy with you.
I have pictures. Let’s call the pope and talk deal.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 17, 2010 6:32 AM PST up reply actions
Hairston seems to have loved Oakland....not....good listen.....
by Colorado Booze Hounds on Jan 15, 2010 8:13 PM PST reply actions
I just listened and don't think he was negative about Oakland at all
Just really happy to be back in San Diego (which he always missed, it seems). He even says he expects Kouzmanoff will like it in Oakland. You can’t blame a guy for wanting to be “home,” and it sounds like SD is home for Hairston.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah...
Holliday never said anything either. You could tell by the look on his face that he absolutely hated it here! ;)
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Actually
I was being sarcastic. i was never one to believe that theory.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
What's true is that you could tell by the look on my face
that I hated him here.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
My farts smelled worse when Holliday was on the club.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 3:35 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:52 AM PST up reply actions
After watching Holliday here for years......
it was night and day when he arrived in Oakland……
by Colorado Booze Hounds on Jan 15, 2010 9:35 PM PST up reply actions
No kidding --
Hey, it happens. But it was real.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agree he had no interest being in Oakland
And he wasn’t his normal Holliday self. But he also wasn’t at all bad.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed -- he's supremely talented,
so even if in theory he was only “giving 85%,” he was going to do a lot of things right.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And Oakland is SO FAR from San Diego....
“Its so awesome to be home!!! The 1 hour plane flights were a killer!”
by Colorado Booze Hounds on Jan 15, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
He was all about San Diego
I’m from Oakland, live in San Diego and can totally agree that it is a short, quick and easy trip. That being said, just before he came to us he was all over the local channels as a “San Diego feel good story.” He actually got way more insider face time than other more notable SD players. My point is the trade to Oaktown came as a surprise to everybody in San Diego less the Padres divorce filled front office. I love this trade back!
Save the thesaurus for when you are in front of the judge. When speaking of the A's, speak with your heart on...................your sleeve!
I can back you up on that
I too live in SD and he was very popular here and loved it. My friends thought the world might end when he got traded. I’m glad he’s back with SD though. Kouz is needed a lot more.
by Twan54321 on Jan 15, 2010 11:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If you have a job there
I’m thinking it would be hard for anyone not to like San Diego.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
I strongly prefer Oakland.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
We all know you really prefer Florida.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
people regularly compare Sarasota to San Diego.
Quite frankly, aside from the humidity, I find the comparison accurate.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
hilarious
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 16, 2010 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure Oaktown is a fine city
I’ve really only been to the Colosseum and Jack London. Growing up in the Sacramento area it seems we always would go straight into S.F. anytime I have visited the Bay Area. I’ll have to check more of it out.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
a good deal
would I have liked to see Andy LaRoche more than Kouzmanoff? Sure. Would I have given up Gio and whoever else the Pirates wanted for Laroche? No. Will Kouzmanoff probably end up having a comparable even possibly better next 2-3 years than LaRoche offensively while providing better defense at 3B? Most likely.
I like this trade. I liked Cunningham, but in a perfect world, both he and Hairston are 4th outfielders. So you trade a couple of 4th OFers for a starting 3rd basemen, who, btw, you really need – yeah, that’s a solid deal.
Believe it or not, it was Gio plus Sweeney.
We need to install a laugh track into AN. Or at least one of those big ol’ studio audience LAUGH signs.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
More than likely, so is jeff gray too
Spencer had a surprising season, but we’ll see if A’s kept the right OF’s or traded the wrong ones.
by MagicMike23 on Jan 15, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
yep
I forgot about Spencer in that deal. Even so, he was a couple of years away from the show. We’ll see.
You can remove a couple of those A's for Miles
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:54 AM PST up reply actions
Well, he needs at least two of them to spell his name
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
Ron Miles
Just doesn’t have the same ring to it, does it
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Two Clubs
Dealing from a postion of strength. I guarantee you..the more time passes, the more you will appreciate Kooz.
Hey, aren't you the guy who proposed this on AN last week?
Good call.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
A byrnes and tejada reunion would complete this dream offseason
Of course depending if Tejada bring his asking price into the $4 mill range and Byrnes signs for the league minimum, incentive type deal
tejada to play
which position, now? surely not SS? I just heard about Byrnes being cut – is that a done deal now? I’m not going to say poor guy, because that “rich” guy got a ridiculous contract that he never really deserved. I wonder if the Giants will pick him up…
Byrnes....Bring him home! Tejada is No More
We need to wait 10 days then he will be released because no one is going to pick up his arz contract…
With Kouz here, Tejada is not coming to Oakland. I liked the idea, but billy really needs to give Cliff a go at it.
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
Cliff's a fillin
Tejada could make a great addition to the team. Playing some up SS and 3B. Assuming he can learn the position. Most of AN and I think Miles should be DFA (although I like having a bay area kid of the team, he’s just not that good.) Cliff will be lucky to have a 250/350/400 line. But we have to wait for Tejada’s asking price to come down to a realistic level.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2010 4:01 AM PST up reply actions
A .750 OPS out of Cliff Pennington
makes him more valuable in Oakland then Tejada would be. Tejada is no longer a SS, and his offensive numbers would likely absolutely DIE with a move back to the AL, and to Oakland. I don’t see him realistically putting up close to a .750 OPS, but maybe i’m being a bit harsh. I personally feel Pennington will provide above average defense over a full 2010, although the defensive metrics from last season say otherwise. He was above average throughout his MiLB career, and I expect him to adjust and continue being so during his MLB career. I wouldn’t mind him getting the starting job to see what he can do. If he can provide solid defense at SS, and put up a .260/.360/.390 line that’s pretty solid out of the 9 hole.
Pennington was better than the average SS in his leagues most of the time by
TotalZone, but that doesn’t mean he projects as an above average major league SS. CHONE, based on TotalZone projects him as -2, which is basically average.
It’s not quite as bad as saying that a player was better offensively than average for his minor leagues and therefore he should be above average in the majors, but it still doesn’t mean that much to be above average compared to other SS in the Texas League and PCL.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
I think we have lots of reasons to be optimistic about Pennington's defense.
There’s not nearly enough data to draw meaningful conclusions about his D statistically. Much more reason to trust what you can see in this case, which is that he has an excellent arm and good range.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I actually wasn't impressed with either his arm nor his range.
But I saw almost all the A’s games on a computer. Maybe it’s because I see Brendan Ryan a lot, but Pennington didn’t impress me at all.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
I think the computer had something to do with it.
I could conceive of not being impressed with his range, but there’s absolutely no doubt he can throw.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
This is how I would charactorize it, too
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
You might be a bit optimistic
Which we all hope for that out of Pennington, but Chone, James, etc don’t agree with you. He is a placeholder for Green. Why not have a veteran platoon with him. Yeah at Miggy’s age we can’t expect much but he’s still got something to offer. But as noted earlier, the price has to come down.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2010 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
I don't want Tejada anywhere near SS for the A's.
He’s a terrible defender now. He has nothing to offer. At any price. Also I hate veterans.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
There's nothing wrong with veterans
There’s something very wrong with giving money to old, washed up veterans.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
If an old guy is any good they call him a good player. You never hear
Chipper Jones called a “veteran”, you hear him called an All-Star, or future HOF, or best player on the team. The only people hear called “veterans” are those with nothing but old age to offer.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but they get their own holiday.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
So that's why people keep on calling me a veteran
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Come to think of it.....
For the first time in recent memory, we might actually need a LH backup/utility IF.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
That role likely falls to Patterson
UNfortunately
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Not cool man, not cool.
That rug really tied the room together...
by Streams Of Whiskey on Jan 16, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No reason to DFA Miles.
You need a bench guy who can back-up at SS anyway. If you DFA Miles then you just have to put someone like Petit on the 25-man roster, so it’s not like it frees up space.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
You do if want a better infield
If the choice is between letting go of Miles or Pennington which would you go with. Maybe Miles is switch hitter but he can barely play any position well. Pennington would be a little bit better in the role.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
I must have missed something.
Why are we talking about dumping Pennington or Miles? Are you talking about adding a shortstop? Who? I wasn’t aware of any decent ones available. If you’re going to trade for A-Rod, sure, go ahead and DFA Miles, but I don’t see any reason for it in the real world.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Unusual lapse of reading comprehension on your part
Press the “up” button 3 or 4 times.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Ah, I see.
I’m being less careful than usual. I have to leave in about 20 minutes and I’m trying to finish this damn thread so that I can close the window without losing which messages are unread.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I just leave the window open
The only way this fails is on those rare occasions when my computer, for reasons it hasn’t disclosed to me, refuses to “wake up” no matter what I do and I have to pull the damn plug to restart it.
sweet, sweet Faustus.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
I think you owe your comment count championship
to these “sweet sweet Faustus” comments.
I suspect you’ve programmed a macro to generate these things. In fact, I demand an investigation.
sweet, sweet Faustus.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I'm glad I wasn't taking a sip of my morning coffee when I came across this
It’s hilarious that you decided to look it up. But it does seem odd that your own comment doesn’t head the list.
I see LB forgot himself and capitalized one of the “Sweets”. I wonder if that’s enough to rescue him from the hobgoblin of small minds.
Joe Morgan?
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 17, 2010 6:33 AM PST up reply actions
Presumably AN's search database
doesn’t update that quickly. Although eight minutes separate the posts, you have to figure at least three of them for preparing and uploading the image and another three for typical Iglew dawdling.
The second page, by the way, points to the Mephistophelean back story.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Not only a nice contract, but
Byrnesie is a shoo-in for a TV job after retirement.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
He'll be the second coming of Rex Hudler.
Oh no… oh no!!!!
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 3:37 AM PST up reply actions
with an extra testicle!
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 16, 2010 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
Is the second one really "extra"?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Uh, no
You might want to see your doctor.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I got one huge one and one little one...
but I saw the doctor about that a long time ago.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 17, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Anisometrorchidism?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I googled that, doctor, and came up empty...
I got kicked in the cubes once as a teenager when I thought the guy I was fighting was more honorable than he really was.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 17, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
he apparently lived by the
Butch Cassidy Rules.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 17, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Break it down.
an-iso-metr-orchid-ism
It’s good that some things are still ungooglable.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
No offense
but why the hell would we want anything to do with Eric Byrnes?
I think he'd make a great peanut vendor.
Sign him up, Aramark.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 3:38 AM PST up reply actions
j ust as long as he doesn't go near the hotlinks
with the onions and the peppers.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
mmmmm....hot links, onions and peppers.
Is it baseball season yet?
by LoneStranger on Jan 16, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
apparently in my house,
it’s baseball season twice a week…
Although sometimes it’s linguisa or andouille.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 17, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
I don't want them back in Oakland.
Were are they going to play? I loved having them in Oakland before I have moved on. I like to watch them play still, there is just not room for them on the A’s.
Grammar or not, I agree. I liked them before. Don't want them back.
I thought the same about Giambi last year. Rickey, on the other hand, can come back anytime till he’s 300 years old.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:56 AM PST up reply actions
He had only THREE errors last year!!!!
What did i tell you...didn't I say they would win? Yeah that's right I did didn't ? Wait.. what? They LOST?!?!?
Hairston has to be esctastic
right now knowing he is going back to S.D. All the A’s can say is don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Cunningham is now the third member of the original Haren six to be traded away. I hope Cunningham gets an extended chance to play on a regular basis.
All in all this appears to be a good Beane trade dealing from the surplus OF’s we had to get what we needed. The new Padres G.M. / Hoyer appears to be sharp & a good fit for the Padres.
IMHO, this will work out fine for the A’s. Kouzmanoff projects in terms of current salary, health & having reasonable hitting & defensive stats and was in the A’s price range. Kooz went to the Unversity of Nevada, so as a UN grad, I wish him the best.
Paddle Faster! I hear banjo music.
The way I see it,
like Beltre, Kouzmanoff will give the A’s around a .250/.320 with 20 HR bat and good defense (tradeoffs: Beltre offers better D, Kouz offers better health).
The difference is that for 3 years, Kouzmanoff cost us Hairston/Cunningham while Beltre would have cost around $28M. And given his age and health, Kouz is far less likely to become an albatross, so I’ll give up Hairston/Cunningham and keep the millions to spend elsewhere.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Kouzmanoff has gotten worse every year since his rookie season
I’m not saying he’s absolutely on a decline or anything, but it’s possible.
Somebody post updated projections for him (the ones that do factor in league/park) once they’re available, please. I’m very interested in what those say.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
"What flavor is it?"
“It’s bleedin’ third base flavor, innit?”
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I heart you.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
It's not like we are saving $28 million though
I believe we only offered Beltre $24 million, and Kouzmanoff is going to make $10 million the next three years, so we are only saving $14 million. I still prefer Beltre, but he wasn’t going to sign with Oakland anyway.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 16, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, when I said "save the millions"
I meant the difference between Beltre and Kouz, which is still millions (14) but isn’t 28M.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good points Nico
I absolutely love this trade! Bravo Billy….you dun good kid!
;q
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Kouzmanoff finished the year strong.
His OPS month by month from June through September:
.737
.795
.815
.747
I like that trend. He was also a .778 OPS hitter away from Petco last season.
I think Kouz will hit fine for the A’s, so long as you’re not expecting a ton of BA or OBP.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Career Home/Road Splits
Home: 236/287/388 for a 674OPS and 82 OPS+
Road: 284/328/477 for a 807OPS and 116OPS+
So outside of Petco hes been pretty darn good.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
My personal "best guess," park factored in and all:
.248/.318/.450, with about 20 HRs and “very solid” defense. I’ll take it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't think average = very solid, but otherwise, that seems like what he'll give.
I’m still trying to figure out why everybody is excited about giving up a top prospect (ok, last year, since he’s not actually eligible anymore) for that.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe the A's know something the Padres don't?
The A’s system has always been about plate discipline. Simply put, swing at pitches in the strike zone, don’t swing at pitches outside of the zone. With a new approach, there is no reason Kouzmanoff’s line can’t look like this next season, .279/.349/.538. Plus, age 28 is apparently the peak year of performance.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 16, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
A new approach
It worked for Holliday and Cust, didn’t it?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I do think Kouz' defense has improved over the years
I expect him to regress into “very solid” — average range and excellent sure-handedness on that which touches his glove.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
"He'll hit fine for the A's, so long as you're not expecting him to hit fine"
is how I read that.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
There are aspects of hitting other than batting average and OBP
Kouzmanoff is good at those aspects. Particularly the ones that involve hitting the ball very hard and sending it over, or at least very close to, the fence in the outfield.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
by PaulThomas on Jan 16, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I expect A's to still add some veteran utility type or plan B to Pennington
They dont trust Petit enough as the only backup SS , likely dont trust Pennington as a starting everyday SS either. So they could try jerry hairston, tejada, felipe lopez. The only trade market that has been mentioned before so far has been Hu who doesnt seem to be in the dodgers plans
So they just release Miles?
Might be best, but whoever we sign would just be a backup unless Pennington tanks so its not going to be a big name.
I like Aaron Miles.
His sparkling face will shine on that side of the diamond. I hope he hits .- – - with lots of HBP’s on changeups.
by baseline_replacement_commenter on Jan 16, 2010 4:34 AM PST up reply actions
Jeez, step away from the Internet for a few hours
and see what happens.
I’ll miss Tintin — I liked him, even if he doesn’t really fit into the team’s depth chart plans — but I’m just thankful it’s not Gio like they were rumoring this afternoon.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I hear yeah
I had to go see my in-laws, end up missing all the fun.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Should we start up those "Billy Beane hates black players" rumors again?
There isn’t any better explanation for this trade, is there? ;-)
I miss Eric Plunk
Nah...
Don’t wan any Harry Reid or Trent Lott on our hands…
False equivalency of the month...
But that may already be saying too much.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I am liking the way things are looking.
Thinks are falling into place but Billy Beane probably ins’t finished yet. Having an outfield of center fielders seams kind of odd but I guess it could happen.
It's not odd if you're building a team around defense.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
I also like what this does for Eric Chavez.
Seems like best-case scenario for Eric is to be a 2 or 3 day a week player. That could work out pretty well, if you kind of platoon Chavvy and Kouz.
Kouz plays against all lefties and a righty or two every week and Chavvy can step in against a couples of tough righties in a row.
I know I might be the only Chavez believer left on the planet, but I really do have hope that the guy (who is only 32) can be a part-time useful player for one more year, and it mind as well be in 2010 when the team doesn’t need him to be a force anymore and when the team has a perfectly capable, mostly durable 3rd baseman that can take over whenever he doesn’t feel up to doing anything remotely strenuous.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
im also a chavez believer
he’s my favorite player. will be for quite a while, but even he’s saying he’s content with retirement. i believe he’s going to try and comeback so he doesnt get the albert belle reputation
What do you do with Kouzmanoff for the other 81 games though?
He’s not an asset at any other position. And most of his value is in durability.
I’m struggling to see how the injuries will not have so sapped Chavez’s talent as to make him a below-replacement-level option in 2010. The A’s don’t “owe” him at-bats.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Spring Training will tell a lot with Chavez.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 3:45 AM PST up reply actions
I love him, but Chavy needs to be done.
"The only way I'm going to get a Gold Glove is with a can of spray paint." - Reggie Jackson
by the_rozeboom on Jan 16, 2010 7:50 AM PST up reply actions
Well it would be kind of awesome if Chavez could actually be better than Kouzmanoff
against righties. Not that I’m expecting it or anything.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:00 AM PST up reply actions
while I would love to see Chavez able to play this season
I’m not expecting it…and I think this trade indicates that the A’s no longer expect it either.
It's about time. That's the one thing I like about this trade
They have Chavez-proofed the team. And not only that, but they have backup plans (Fox, McPherson) in case Kouzmanoff gets hurt.
Basically, it’s going to take a lot to rely on Chavez to be on the field this year. That’s a good thing. I actually see Chavez retiring after spring training, perhaps in some kind of deal with the A’s where he can still get paid. Maybe they’ll give him a front office job or something.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
He could retire
But he could actually be in playing shape to DH at least. So, do we platoon DH with him and Cust? This is what I will be most curious to find out during ST.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
They both hit left-handed, and Cust is better at hitting.
Again I fail to see how Chavez adds anything.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Right but are we just going to eat the $12M or whatever Chavez is owed this year?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Given the choice between paying Chavez $12M to sit around,
and paying Chavez $12M to make the team worse, I’m going with “sit around.”
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
If Chavez can only DH...
…and Cust is a better hitter, I think Chavez will retire. A .250 average, 20 HR and an OBP under .340 won’t cut it.
Put him at SS!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Actually wouldnt be a bad idea, gold glover could figure it out
but the thing would be if his body could handle it
Apparently it's his natural position
Why can’t he be the official backup SS? Occasionally pinch hit for Pennington and stay in at SS? For 12M!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If he retires he forfits his contract.
So I don’t think Chavez will retire until the end of the year. It’s much more likely that his back goes out again and Chavez spends the rest of his career on the 60 day DL.
BTW, to head off all the people who will call this a sleazy move on Chavez’ part, this is part of the risk you take when signing a player to a long term contract at a discount, and Chavez has every right to rusk his long term health for 12 million dollars and not retire; I’d do the same thing.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Jan 16, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
This brings up an interesting question.
Do teams regularly take out insurance policies on long term contracts with players? If so, the good old 60 day DL hokey doke suddenly takes on a new meaning.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Assuming there's a policy (and I'd guess there probably is)
the insurer will pay careful attention to make sure they’re not being defrauded by phony trips to the DL. On the other hand, if Eric really is broken, well, that’s exactly what the policy is for.
I assume this is why they keep trotting him out there. If the policy is against injury that renders him unable to play (as opposed to just being bad) then presumably it pays so long as he really is injured or rehabbing, but then once he’s ready to play it doesn’t, so they have to put him back in the lineup until he breaks again.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I absolutely don't think it's a sleazy move on Chavez' part
what’s his first priority? The future security of his family. No-one can fault him for not walking away from $12MM
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
I agree that it's non-sleazy.
He contracted for the money so he’s go every right to collect on it.
But I hardly think an additional $12 million counts as “future security of his family”. He’s well past the point of diminishing returns, money-wise. A dad who can still walk is more important to his family than millions more dollars.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
ok, that's true
I overstated that. But I think there’s a gap between where Chavez is now, ‘not being able to play 3b’, and what you suggest, ‘not being able to walk’.
He’s not crippled, he’s just not able to perform at a high level any more
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
I think it is a very good trade for the A's
Good Jobe Billy Beane!
Thank you Al Davis for Michael Crabtree!!!!!
Ah, I see you must have gotten your tea...
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 3:47 AM PST up reply actions
Did Beane perform elbow ligament replacement surgery?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:01 AM PST up reply actions
A's definitely made out in this trade
Kous is a great pickup for the A’s. As an A’s fan displaced to San Diego I had an eye on him this season and his fielding is top notch, and his hitting improved a great deal. Poor Padres got fleeced.
I think the Padres got the more talent in Cunningham and Hairston.
But the A’s got what they needed in Kouzmanoff.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:02 AM PST up reply actions
i.e. it's a good trade for both teams
Ponies for everyone!
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 16, 2010 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
I really, REALLY hate this type of thinking when it comes to trades
This is how bad teams quickly kill their chances of being good. Intentionally overpaying (especially in a season when winning isn’t expected) is just not a good idea.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
Who said the A's aren't expected to win this season?
Typically young players get better, although it hasn’t been the case in Oakland recently. The A’s have fielded competitive teams the last two years, but have been killed by injuries and players producing under their expected levels. They are already a better team on paper than most give them credit, and there is no reason to assume injuries and low performance will again prevail.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 16, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
Hey, I didn't say I liked it.
I’d have preferred to make a 4 for 1 trade to get Roy Halladay or something, but that wasn’t available. And they did need someone to play 3B. It’s not as though Kouzmanoff was their first choice. They went after Scutaro and Beltre and LaRoche.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe Beane is being pro-active and this is a move for 2011 rather than 2010.
You don’t really expect Beane to be able to cherry-pick the ultimate players he needs all in one post season, do you? That’s simply not realistic. It’s quite possible he looked ahead and see’s no other better alternatives available next season at a reasonable price.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Good point. Plus once 3B is addressed,
at least decently, one can turn more aggressively to other areas of need as opportunities arise.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Remember Andrew Brown, the six-six pitcher who
I guess, is retired!
Andrew Brown was traded from Cleveland to the Padres along with Kouzmanoff.
Andrew Brown was also traded twice for Milton Bradley !! (To Cleveland, to the Athletics, for Bradley).
That is….unusual! No wonder he retired!!
Awaiting the start of the 2010 season!
by One won lost won on Jan 15, 2010 11:06 PM PST reply actions
I believe they re-signed brown shortly after the season
I wouldnt expect much, but he’s come back from major surgeries before.
Like the wallace trade was probably a second chance for barton. I would view trading both hairston and cunningham basically opens the door for Buck. Fox and Patterson both have their defensive limitations and Buck could be that backup plan if Rajai, Crisp , or any other OF struggles or gets injured.
by MagicMike23 on Jan 15, 2010 11:10 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Buck will end up playing much but who knows.
He has more of a chance now.
On reflection, I do think this is an overpay.
I’m not as high on Cunningham as thejd44 is over on the other thread, but I do think he’s good. It seems pretty clear to me that in terms of simple value of their contracts, the guys we gave up were quite a bit better than the guys we got.
But in the immediate term, those guys weren’t going to do much for us and meanwhile we had a huge weakness at 3B. So I see this as a trade that’s purely for the present. I’m OK with that, because I like the fact that the team is now significantly less likely to totally suck in 2010. But if you’re one of those people who think losses don’t matter in what’s going to be a non-contending season anyway, it’s hard to see how you can like this. I mean, we just overpaid in order to fill a position of need, in a year when we shouldn’t care about current needs, right? Even if you take consolation in the fact that the guys we gave up were blocked and stuck in a roster logjam, we still should have shopped them for a good deal rather than deal from a position of weakness because our standards for 3B had dropped so low.
Like I say, I’m just glad we won’t suck as much this year, so I’m OK with it. But surely it really is an overpay, and in a couple years people are going to be pointing to it as a bad trade by Billy sort of like they do now for Bradley-Ethier.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Jan 15, 2010 11:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I wouldve been content with a straight up swap of Hairston- Kouzmanoff
Kouzmanoff has been the slightly more productive player at a need position. Value wise Cunningham has the edge on Sogard, but it might be closer than we think. I wouldnt classify it as an overpay, considering the A’s bleak 3b situation for 3 years. Failing on beltre and turning down what wouldve been an overpay in a Laroche deal.
by MagicMike23 on Jan 15, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
Would you have been content with Cunningham for Kouzmanoff?
What about Hairston for Sogard?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:03 AM PST up reply actions
The way to do it
As someone who generally cares little about 63 vs. 75 wins is that Kouz will be around for 3 years. I’m not convinced we have anyone better than him in those years, and if we aren’t competing in any of those years a whole lot of shit went wrong.
Also, I think Cunningham is more likely to be AAAA than a good MLB starter, so there’s that.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
It does enable Cardenas to play 2B and makes Weeks earn a big league spot.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
I've always said a reasonable expectation is that Cardenas/Weeks produces one MLB starter.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Mom always said "don't play ball in the house"
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
and then she bought me NERF for Christmas.
What’s up with that? I still broke stuff with NERF balls.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
When I was 7, I place kicked a potato through a window
not a word of a lie
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
When I was 8 or so I was in the backyard pretending to pitch...
…and watching it thanks to my reflection in a backyard window.
Of course, the ball slipped out and went right through said window.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Your career choice makes much sense.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
I tortured several small animals as a child.
That never stopped my interest in painting and being a clown here in West Chicago.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
John sure was an interesting character.
Creepy and terrifying, but interesting.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 17, 2010 6:38 AM PST up reply actions
I'm more of an Ed Gein fan myself...
wearing masks made out of the faces of his victims… what can be more sick and wrong than that?
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 17, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions
And even if they produce two, Weeks is IMO as good a prospect in CF as at 2B
Maybe he ends up replacing Davis instead of Ellis.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
What do they do with the AAA infield now?
If Chavez makes the MLB roster, Fox will likely start the year in AAA. They cleared up the logjam of OFers, but now they have to sort out:
1B: Carter/Doolittle
2B: Cardenas/Sogard
3B: McPherson/Fox
True, 2010 RiverCats are unbelievably loaded
I thought the 2009 Midland Rockhounds were the most dominant minor league team I had seen, but 2010 RiverCats may be more so. Could be a bunch of 20HR guys this year.
by redtopcowboy on Jan 16, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
I am excited and look forward to meeting the bullpen crew.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
I'd go with:
1B – Doolittle
2B – Cardenas
SS – Petit
3B – Fox
LF – Carter
CF – Brown
RF – Taylor
DH – Buck
Sogard gets in after Chavez gets hurt and Buck or Fox is promoted. At that point Cardenas moves to 3B. They could put Sogard at 2B and Cardenas at SS, but that would be the worst defensive infield in the history of the great state of California.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Wither McPherson?
I think Doolittle is much more likely than Carter to play in the OF. He played 24 of his 28 games in RF last year.
Agree about McPherson
I can’t see any scenario (barring crazy injuries… I know, I know) where he doesn’t get released.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
Why wouldnt he accept a AAA assignment?
He did with Marlins and then giants last yr.If he’s healthy in the spring they’ll give him some AB’s.
by MagicMike23 on Jan 16, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
Because Fox will be the AAA 3B
and McPherson’s gonna be 30 years old — it’s approaching now or never for him. I’m sure he will get ST AB’s, what I meant was sometime towards the end of ST he’ll get released
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2010 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'd guess both Carter and Doolittle will split time in the outfield
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Likely Sac infield
1b: Carter
2b: Sogard
3b: Cardenas
Petit at SS, Doolittle in RF, McPherson at DH.
The monster at the end of this blog.
This is more likely
Buck will rotate in at OF and DH but won’t play every day. Some days Cardenas might play SS to get someone else in the lineup. I think Fox has a good chance of staying on the big league roster assuming Chavez isn’t healthy.
Sogard will be the every day 2B in Sac. He will probably also bat leadoff moving Cardenas to the 2nd spot where he belongs.
Now that we have Kous and Week's will probably be the future 2B do you think that Cardenas will be the utility infielder?
With time at 3B he will have time at 2B, SS and 3B so it would work.
Personally right now, with Kous at 3B I like Cardenas better at 2B.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Well
I think playing Cardenas at 3B (in Sac) is still the best play for the A’s. He was going to see some time at 2B (and maybe SS) anyways because the A’s are all about versatile infielders these days. Cardenas is still the only high-end 3B prospect available in the Oakland farm system. It could be that Kouzmanoff gets flipped a year from now, depending on how Cardenas and Weeks develop in 2010.
Basically, I think it too soon to try and figure out how Kouzmanoff/Weeks/Cardenas factor into the A’s long term plans at 3B and SS.
The monster at the end of this blog.
grover, what about this year's draft? Any high end 3B prospects that the A's could get?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
I'm average at best when discussing amateur talent
I do a 2-3 week crash course every year prior to the draft just to get that good. I’d go here to find out about the upcoming draft class, Andy seems to be a rather solid evaluator… just don’t hold your breath waiting for an e-mail reply!
The monster at the end of this blog.
You make a good point Iglew.
Although, I would argue that Ethier ‘07 and Cunningham ’09 aren’t exactly equitable.
The main I see with this trade regarding Cunningham is that yes, he has the potential to out-WAR Kouzmanoff over the long-term, but was there going to be an distinct time when Cunningham would be able to prove that as a full-time player as an Oakland outfielder? I don’t really think so…with Crisp, Rajai, Sweeney, Fox and Buck in the mix, Talyor, Doolitlle, Brown and Desme coming up?
Of course it would be nice for Beane to stash away a bajillion useful MLB-ready outfielders and wait for the perfect time to cash-in the depth for a truly impact player, but how long do you wait for that deal to come along?
From my perspective, the deal makes good sense…cash-in a guy that didn’t ever really fit into the long-term or short-term plans (Hairston) and a guy that is getting squeezed out of the picture (Cunningham) for someone that fills an immediate need and can be useful at a position of need for the next 3 years at an affordable price (Kouz) plus another intriguing player at an up-the-middle-position…
Point is…none of these guys involved are probably difference makers…all four could have higher values later on the year if they performed better or got the chance to enhance their profiles, but right now, I think everyone wins here…
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Injur-
Let’s not forget the dreaded “I” word either. Coming off a hernia surgery, wonder if the A’s don’t think he’ll be in the mix for a while or will take longer to develop. Plus he had a shoulder injury previously. Not a reason, but just saying, injuries hardly ever help a player.
Padres may be ahead on total WAR for the players involved, but
I don’t think anyone will particularly regret losing Hairston or Cunningham. Ethier was a better prospect than Cunningham (by a tad) and he’s hit a lot better than expected. If we wind up regretting it, it’s probably more likely to be due to Kouz sucking. Cunningham or some other OFer (or 2) needed to be traded at some point anyway, and getting a decent player at a position of need is a good way of doing that.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
I regret losing Hairston, but not for any good reason
I rooted for his dad, back when I was a kid and I didn’t yet know that the White Sox are evil.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 3:51 AM PST up reply actions
White Sox hater, huh?
My least favorit team is the Montreal Expos.
by baseline_replacement_commenter on Jan 16, 2010 4:38 AM PST up reply actions
They're undefeated in the last few years, I hear
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
I'm surprised you've even heard of the Montreal Expos, doctor! :)
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
This post would make sense if Kouzmanoff was a free agent after 2010 (and couldn't or wouldn't return compensation picks)
Since he isn’t, um, I really don’t get where you’re going with this.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I think it's purely for the present because within two years, Weeks and Cardenas will both be knocking on the door for playing time
I just don’t see Kouzmanoff as a 3B here for long, unless the A’s are now going to trade one of those two guys.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
I'd imagine he'll play until someone else makes a convincing case for being better than him
If no-one does, well, yarbles, frankly
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
It's hard for guys to make a convincing case they should play in Oakland these days
Cunningham OPSd .899 in his triple A time and got barely over 100 PA spread over 2 seasons to prove his worth. At this point, I think Cardenas would have to homer in 75 straight at bats to crack the Major League lineup.
I’m actually really unhappy with this new thing where clearly ready young guys are shunned in favor of clearly not as good older guys. Is this Beane or Geren at work? It would be a big change for Beane, so I can only assume that Geren has read the Dusty Baker Book of Managing.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
Except the A's, more than any other team recently
Have rushed their prospects.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 16, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
The Mets too, but of course they suck.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
At least Beane didn't give a billion dollars to Oliver Perez
You’ve made me feel a little bit better.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Oliver Perez.... archnemesis of my MLB 2005 Athletics dynasty...
Perennial Cy Young candidate signed as a free agent by the Angels in December 2005 after leading the Miracle Pirates to an unexpected 7-game WS victory over the mighty Oakland Athletics, whom have not lost a playoff or World Series game in the 6 years since. (I’ll start Opening Day 2012 when I get horny for baseball when pitchers and catchers report)
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
The Mets are better at disguising it.
They start yammering about their prospects when they’re 17, so that when they do bring a guy up at 20 you’ve already been hearing about him for years so it doesn’t seem like he’s being rushed.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
On the pitching side, yes.
But Barton got squeezed for a clearly finished Giambi. Cabrera/Crosby got time over Pennington (who probably sucks, but the other guys were below-replacement veterans), Buck has been injured/bad recently, but he also gets like 10 at bats and then they send him away. Even Patterson, who I think is terrible, was anointed the CF and a week later was exiled to Sacramento.
Really, Sweeney and Suzuki are the only young guys who got a real shot to stick, and Suzuki was more because there wasn’t another warm body in the entire organization that could play the position once Kendall was traded.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
My understanding was that they traded Kendall because of the confidence they had in Suzuki
though, that may be writing history based on how things subsequently turned out
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
My understanding was that they had confidence in Suzuki
because Kendall was so bad that an untested rookie could hardly be worse.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I'm sure that made the decision a little easier...
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
I remember that long second deck dinger in the next to last ST game against SF in 07.
wow…
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
On the hitting side as well
Barton had his chance, and his second chance, and now we are giving him his third chance. Had he hit in AAA last year, he would have played more over Giambi. Pennington was not ready last year, nor is he this year, but he is getting his chance. Buck was given his chance and hit .100 over the first month of the season. He forced his way out of the lineup, then injuries and attitude took over. Rajai Davis, Carlos Gonzalez, Jack Hannahan, Kurt Suzuki, Tommy Everidge, Landon Powell, Ryan Sweeney, Scott Hairston, and not to mention the guys in the bullpen and rotation, all got their chance, and some of them too soon. The only player I can think of who wasn’t given a fair shot is Cunningham, and he was even given a chance, albeit a short one. Had he immediately carried that .900 OPPS to the bigs, he would have stuck around.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 16, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, you're right about that, to an extent
At least, in the outfield. Is it a change of direction, or just that they really don’t have the confidence in certain players being what the stats say they will be?
Not including pitchers, in recent years they’ve given large portions of playing time to Sweeney, Buck, Barton (which they then took away, obviously), Gonzalez… Not to mention handing a starting role to Suzuki based on limited big league playing time.
I hope that you’re wrong, is for sure
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
iglew, don't overlook that Kouz
could be the 3Bman on A’s contending teams (2011, 2012). He’s not a one-year stopgap, he’s a 3-year solution.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hey we're tied for 1st Place for the 2010 season right now!
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:24 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I know he's three years.
I just think Hairston and Cunningham are each nearly as good as Kouzmanoff, so the pair of them is much better. (I know nothing of Sogard, but if he were anything special I’m sure I would have heard about it by now.)
I don’t really hate the trade, but I still see it as an overpay to meet present need. I think most of the issue is that I like both Hairston and Cunningham more than most people here do, and I also didn’t hate the McPhoxez plan as much as most people here did.
And by the way, I don’t see the 2011 A’s as being significantly more likely to “contend” than the 2010 A’s.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
3 yrs of kouz vs 2 yrs of hairston
Lets be honest, i dont think neither player wouldve been around or are considered long term pieces when the A’s are back to legit, consistent contenders. Cunningham is a corner OF, I dont think padres had as much interest in buck, patterson, fox who are stuck in a similar situation.
by MagicMike23 on Jan 16, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Hairston and Cunningham play the same position
and it’s a position where the A’s have a lot of depth. I can’t imagine a realistic way for both Hairston and Cunningham to fulfill anything close to a “WAR potential” at the same time.
On the A’s, their redundant with each other, as well as with Sweeney and Crisp and (hopefully) Taylor and Carter and Doolittle.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Is "their redundant" related to McGwire's hot?
{drinks broth on sweater}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Absolute, Will!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Might as well give up then
If the A’s aren’t good by 2011, they’ll never be good.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
What bothers me about all this is the line "Cunningham wasn't going to do much for us anyway right now" (you didn't say this exactly, but pretty much
I see that as true only because the A’s currently have worse players higher on the depth chart! That’s not a good reason to trade somebody.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
Where do you rank Cunningham in the OF hierarchy?
I’ve got the pre-trade depth chart as something like:
LF — Crisp, Taylor, Buck/Cunningham, Hairston
CF — Davis, Crisp, Sweeney, Hairston
RF — Sweeney, Taylor, Buck/Cunningham, Hairston
Are you saying Cunningham is better than Taylor? Sweeney? I wouldn’t agree. Are you saying he’s an option in CF? I don’t see that.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
I think, right now, the only OF the A's have who is better is Sweeney (and that's if his defense numbers are legit, which I tend to think they are. Or close to it).
I think Cunningham is better than Taylor right now just because he’s more developed/ready. I do think Taylor will be better, and probably fairly soon.
I think the A’s should have aspired to an outfield of Cunningham, Sweeney, and Taylor. Sure, it’s not as good as the All CF Outfield, but I think this one would be a lot better overall.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
For that to happen
Would require Rajai and Crisp to either be injured or regress in 2010. If you wanted to give cunningham shot in 2011 that’s entirely possible. Whether disagree or not, they seem intent on trying out carter and doolittle in the OF along with Desme and Brown. So where would they fit in this plan eventually?
by MagicMike23 on Jan 16, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
I guess that's possible.
I’m not sure they see Sweeney as an everyday CF because of his knee though.
They probably thought they had to choose between Cunningham, Sweeney and Taylor, and they thought Cunningham the most expendable. I basically agree with them. I guess if they thought as highly of Cunningham as you do, they could have traded Taylor for a better 3B.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
I think I'd probably trade Sweeney before Cunningham or Taylor
I love his defense, and I think his bat is going to get better, but the other guys have higher ceilings (and they’re both not far from reaching those ceilings).
Plus, Sweeney is going to start to cost money soon.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Huh?
I can see keeping Taylor…
But Sweeney had a solid first year in the majors; he got better in his second year. He now has two years as a solid major league outfielder who hits with consistency and is still young enough to develop power.
Cunningham is unproven. His short stints at the major league level haven’t shown anything. The A’s themselves weren’t high enough on him last September to give him one final crack at the line-up.
There’s something very tempting about potential…but it’s only potential, and it’s potential to be a decent player, not a star. A potential decent player is not equivalent to someone who has had two solid years in the majors and could well get better.
I saw Cunningham as the first guy up from AAA.
Sweeney, Davis, and Crisp are the main starters with Hairston getting frequent work as 4th outfielder. Fifth outfielder is Patterson who doubles as generic bench guy. Cunningham starts the season in AAA.
As soon as any of them goes down — or if Hairston alone is traded, which I saw as likely — then Cunningham moves up and takes his place.
Taylor is good but I don’t see him in the Oakland equation yet. He could come up right now, but if he does he’ll be yet another struggling rookie. Regardless of when he comes up, I don’t see him being really good in Oakland till about midseason 2011.
Buck was way down on my list, since I don’t think he’s very good, but with two guys suddenly gone, I think he does have a decent chance of making the Oakland bench now.
All of that’s just guesswork of course. Inevitably one guesses wrong on at least some of it. But that was my basic view of the OF hierarchy.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Nico.....
While I totally agree with the premiss of this post, I must point out………
1. Andre Ethier is a star.
2. Cargon is a budding star
3. Cunningham appears as though he could be a star eventually
Since no one wants to point this out, I will. If Billy’s so smart, then why are what could be the “A’s trio of outfield stars” RIGHT NOW, all on separate NL West teams. I understand hating the G Men, but giving all our future stars away to their divisional competition seems a bit extreme to me. No?
Of course thats not why Billy traded them, but hell, it might as well be right? If the past/present serves as a good measure of the future, In 2-3 years well most likely be discussing the departures of Taylor, Desme, and Brown for more “future talent”.
But hell, at least the Giants will be getting there ass kicked right?
ANGRY KITTENS!!!
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
Cunningham never projected as a star
Yes, both Cargon and Either did, which is why we got “current stars for them.” There were high ceiling for both of them. Cunningham projects as “Solid.” I totally agree with the premise. I was so pissed when we traded both of them, but this one was trading a current solid outfielder and a projected solid outfielder for a “solid” infielder. This filling a need until Cardenas is ready. In a WAR total we probably lost but as for filling a major hole with a decent player we won.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2010 1:56 AM PST up reply actions
HRs, power important
As limited as Cust is as a player he turned several games around with HRs. It should be clear that ideally corner OF and corner IF should provide power. At no time/level has Cunningham projected himself to be power hitter. He is not a CF. So it makes him another 4th OF like Sweeney and Buck. Expendable. On top of that A’s get power hitter at 3b. In the AL Kouz hits 25 HRs easy.
Maybe in his second year......
but you must adjust for adjustment to a new league. I think heel het below 20 this year as a result.
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 16, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Andre Ethier isn't a star.
He’s a good player who is consistently overrated because the media still fetishizes batting average and has no idea how to evaluate defense.
He’s actually averaged fewer “fangraphs WAR” than Kouzmanoff over the last 3 seasons. Even if you dislike their specific metric, the general point— that there’s a wide gulf between a good 3B and a bad corner OF in defensive value— is surely correct.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
This is true. Ethier is a good hitter, but certainly not a great one, and his defensive
shortcomings mean he’ll never be a star.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:07 AM PST up reply actions
And THAT's a puppy.
Carry on.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 16, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
He's angry because Sneaky Booty called him a kitten.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
OMG NO WAY!!!
THAT IS NOT A DOG!! CANT BE!!! Can It?? Hilarious!
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 16, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
OMG!! If that is a dog.......
Its still ANGRY!!! Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 16, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
could you change your log in name?
to something readable?
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 16, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
and maybe cut the caffeine/crank intake by about 50-65%
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't realise that he was so bald
that just tipped this trade from ‘ehh, I wouldn’t be excited if the A’s had had anything from 3b in the last three years’ to ‘OMFG BEST TRADE EVER’.
I operate a binary system, you see. And those are the only choices.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
do you get a lot of money operating a binary system?
Is it anything like Fred operating a Brontosaurus System?
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:22 AM PST up reply actions
I wish
It’s all, switch this zero to a one, switch this one to a zero, and what thanks do I get? zero! See? I even have to do that myself.
Ingrates
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
that sounds a lot like Fred on his brontosaurus.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
Well, he and I have never been seen in the same room before
it’s my policy not to comment on rumors like this
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Fred had hair.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
sigh
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
He's the next Jay Buhner!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
You root for bald guys?
Larry David, is that you?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I'd love to see South Park
have Jesus peeing in Jerry Seinfeld’s house, and a drop of pee gets on the Larry David picture hanging over the toilet.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
There's an ancient pact amoungst balding men
that says the success of one is the success of all.
We have meetings, and everything.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Not British enough for you to add the "st".
Now you’re sticking a “u” in it as well? Why stop there? Why not “hars’moulxngste”?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
ach, the extra u is just idiocy
I stand by the st, though
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Trading some outfielders for a third baseman was inevitable
And with the team hitting the wall in their pursuit of Callaspo and LaRoche, Kouzmanoff was left as the last realistic trade target (since it was always unlikely that Hoyer would keep him and trade Headley). So this might as well be one of the least surprising trades ever.
Question was, which outfielders do we trade, and I’m happy that half of the answer turned out to be “Hairston”. I never liked that guy and hated the original trade and I’m glad that he’s gone. The other half of the answer being “Cunningham” gives me mixed feelings since I like this guy and I think he has a decent MLB future ahead of him. However, he was quickly becaming a spare part around here and trading him now was a right call.
Oh, and let’s not forget Eric Sogard. Obviously not a blue-chip prospect but very decent numbers for a middle infielder last year in AA. I figure A’s scouting has seen a lot of him over the last two years as he played against our Stockton and Midland teams and they must have liked something about him.
I'm excited to see Sogard next year in Sacramento.
I like Hairston and his brother, and I hope they both have a great year next year in San Diego.
They’re a third generation pro baseball family, you know? I tend to follow the careers of these legacy players. I hope another Bell or Boone or Hairston makes the majors someday. That would be four generations of major leaguers (Sam Hairston played in the Negro Leagues, and probably was the best of the clan, too.)
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 4:01 AM PST up reply actions
He was in the Negro Leagues and the clan?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions
He used to burn a cross in the batters box every time he came to bat.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 16, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
I guess my spelling of "clan" was incorrect.
Now, I’m really really afraid of the C.C.C. building by my work. I thought it was kids putting out forest fires and cleaning up trash, but now my eyes are open that it’s merely a front for the Cu Clux Clan!
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
What's this?
The French version?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I'd have to agree with you Manstein
I think is a trade that needs to be looked at as the A’s getting and needing a 3rd baseman that doesn’t completely suck and freeing up some room in the outfield jam. Sogard is intriguing so I want some time to look up his career but I don’t view this trade as an overpay in any shape or form. I’m perfectly happy with Kouzmanoff and any production we get out of Chavvy is just a bonus at this point. I am optimistic if Chavez does not have to play 3rd a majority of the time, then he’ll be able to hold up and DH and/or possibly play 1st as a backup.
Hairston didn’t really do much for me and I’m sure Cunningham will get a better shot at playing time in SD anyway. best of luck to both of them….Go A’s!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
I'd rather have it be Cunningham than Buck, honestly
We’ve actually seen Buck have success at the major league level. Cunningham hasn’t done much more than hit a couple doubles and look like a chipmunk.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Well, in all fairness,
Brett Anderson also looks like a chipmunk, and he’s the most valuable player on the team.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I think he looks more like a guppy
but chipmunk, I see that too
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
gupmunk?
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions
chippy.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
That would be a great screen name
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 17, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
Pretty sure that’s a picture of Cunningham, Ellis, and Cust.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 17, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
Is Sogard the squeakquel?
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
I love that this is a thing
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
why does the one on the left have tits but no arms?
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 17, 2010 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
So she can't slap you?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Venus de Simone?
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 19, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
By the way, you should either
resize your images so they aren’t so big or provide a subject line so the comment can be collapsed. Or preferably both.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Potential 2010 Lineup
Here’s the lineup I think is best so far for us:
CF — Davis
RF — Sweeney
C — Suzuki
DH — Cust
3B — Kouzmanoff
2B — Ellis
1B — Barton
SS — Pennington
LF — Crisp
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 6:09 AM PST reply actions
Against RHP,
you have Ellis too high IMO. Barton should have the 2nd best OBP, and likely the 2nd or 3rd best OPS, against RHP — I wouldn’t bat him 7th. #2, #3, or #5, I’d say.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm a big proponent of batting Barton second
It’s the best way to use his finest skills – working deep counts and taking walks. It seems that Geren started warming to that idea too. I think OD lineup will look like this:
Davis/Crisp
Barton
Sweeney
Suzuki
Cust
Kouzmanoff
Davis/Crisp
Ellis
Pennington
Against LHP, Ellis goes up and Sweeney goes down.
Agreed, Barton second would be ideal
But I’m thinking that if Geren hit Cabrera near the top of the order last year, there might be a similar correlation as to why we should expect Crisp near the top of the order.
Speaking of Cabrera, I believe he is still a free agent, and the A’s could get him for cheap. Ok, I just said that to make a couple of you cringe.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 16, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
As if I'm not worked up enough about the A's this weekend
That’s just not nice.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
Swap Barton and Sweeney
and against LHP move Sweeney to 8th. Also swap Kouz and Suzuki. Then its about right.
Sweeney
I think he’s a better number three hitter than Barton. In his last 78 games in which 69 of those games were starts, Sweeney posted a .854 OPS. In 54 games last year, Barton had a .784 OPS.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
I agree, but for different reasons.
Barton’s simply a better hitter than Sweeney, especially in regards to OBP. The #2 hitter needs to be better than the #3 hitter—so there we go.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
New Lineups
My lineup against right-handed pitching:
CF — Davis
1B — Barton
RF — Sweeney
DH — Cust
C — Suzuki
3B — Kouzmanoff
2B — Ellis
SS — Pennington
LF — Crisp
Here’s my lineup against left-handed pitching:
CF — Davis
1B — Barton
3B — Kouzmanoff
DH — Cust
C — Suzuki
RF — Sweeney
2B — Ellis
SS — Pennington
LF — Crisp
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
Ah, but in May it could be
CF – Davis
1B – Barton
RF – Carter
DH – Cust
C – Suzuki
3B – Kouzmanoff
LF – Sweeney
2B – Ellis
SS – Pennington
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 16, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Those are good, but I'd switch Ellis/Sweeney against LHP, personally
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't know why I've been thinking about this for an hour
My favorite lineup:
1. Davis
2. Barton
3. Suzuki
4. Cust
5. Kouzmanoff
6. Sweeney
7. Crisp
8. Ellis
9. Pennigton
My second favorite lineup.
1. Davis
2. Crisp
3. Barton
4. Suzuki
5. Cust
6. Sweeney
7. Kouzmanoff
8. Ellis
9. Pennington
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 16, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
I'm seeing this
1. Crisp
2. Davis
3. Sweeney
4. Suzuki
5. Cust
6. Kouzmanoff
7. Barton
8. Ellis
9. Pennington
Ugh
Crisp is the worst hitter in that lineup.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
I wish.
Sadly, Pennington is yet worse.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Eh
I based it off of 2009 numbers, which I know wasn’t totally the best thing to do since he was injured and only played in 49 games. I hope Crisp can meet us halfway between his 2008 season and his 2007 or even 2009 season. If he can do that, yeah, he’s better than Pennington offensively. Still, I think they should both hit eighth and ninth respectively in any order.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
Crisp
What do you think of .271 average with a .339 on-base and a .730 OPS for him?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, he seems like about a
.270/.333/.400 bet to me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm basing this...
…pretty much on the way Geren thinks. It seemed obvious last year that Davis should be leading off, but Geren had Kennedy leading off all last year. .289-.348-.410, which is what Kennedy batted last year, is pretty close to Nico’s prediction of Crisp in 2010.
"I'm the worse manager in baseball"
Which is the why Geren SHOULD think of himself. Step down and let someone from AN take over.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
What about July 31?
CF: Davis
1B: Barton
DH: Cust
RF: Carter
LF:Taylor
C: Suzuki
3B: Kouzmanoff
SS: Pennington
2B: Cardenas
sorry, i meant this
RF: Sweeney
CF: Crisp
1B: Carter
DH: Cust
LF:Taylor
C: Suzuki
3B: Kouzmanoff
SS: Pennington
2B: Cardenas
I wonder what we will get for Ellis, Barton and Davis? Cant see any of them around after the deadline.
See, I wonder
If Barton is playing so poorly that Carter has supplanted him, presumably he’ll have little trade value.
Or he’ll be injured.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Ellis
What is the last year in which he is under contract?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 17, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
This coming one.
Although we have a club option for $6MM for 2011.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
After the 2013 season.
The dude is still a season away from arbitration.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Maybe
It may have something to do with him only playing in 54 games last year.
I’m thinking that Davis first, Barton second, Sweeney third, Suzuki fourth, Cust fifth, Kouzmanoff sixth, Ellis seventh, Pennington eighth and Crisp ninth against right-handed pitchers would work.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
I worry that Geren sees Crisp and thinks
“He was awesome at Boston – leadoff!”
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Pretty good deal.
It would be nice if Beane could have convinced them to take Buck instead of Cunningham, but that’s a minor quibble. A’s got something they needed for the short term, and didn’t give up anything they’ll miss much. Plus, Sogard isn’t an insignificant get—he could turn out to be surprisingly useful.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
No
Cunningham had been more impressive in Triple-A and he’s younger. Even though he’s struggled a lot at the MLB level, I’d still rather have Aaron.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
Unfortunately
No because SD has a sense of reality! I like Buck but the dude can’t put it together. Cunningham has a better future IMO
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2010 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
Out-doing the Giants always enjoyable
The A’s give up a couple spare parts for a young veteran 3b with good glove and good power and upside. Giants spend big bucks on declining 35-year-olds DeRosa and Huff.
Also, Giants fans are delighted their nemesis is back in the NL West
At least, that’s how I understand things
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
DeRosa
In 71 games with the Indians, he was .270/.342/.457 compared to just .228/.291/.405 in his 68 games with the Cardinals.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Beane probably done for the winter
Kouz gives us a league average thirdbaseman, which is way better then what we have had for the last years. I get nightmares of Hannahan at bats.
Also, teams tend to overrate their own prospects. So don’t cry over Gallagher and Cunningham or Cargon for that matter. Also, if the right deal comes along for Gio, then pull the trigger.
It's my party and I'll cry over Carlos if I want to.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
line-up weakness
Looking at all the projected line-ups, the only 2 spots in the order that are subpar are the #3 and #4 holes. Plenty of excellent 1s, 2s, 5s, etc. Obviously #3 and #4 very critical. Probable solutions: Taylor and Carter. Other possibilities: Sweeney or Barton develop some power THIS year. Fox or Kouz flourish in AL.
Who are the excellent 1s, 2s and 5s, and why aren't they excellent as 3s and 4s?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
not holding my breath on the power development
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
Should be obvious WC
Davis high average, steals bases is classic #1. Plenty of contact hitters with decent speed who could be good #2s (suzuki, sweeney, ellis to name a few). A classic #3 hitter has power and average — your best hitter. Classic #4 has enormous power, is clutch, and hits for decent avearge. In my opinion Cust, Chavez, Kouzmanoff, Sweeney, Barton etc. do not fit that description at this point. You have to hope Carter and Taylor can bring that to the major league level.
"Classic #1" is actually not what you want at #1 if you're interested in scoring more runs
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Bingo.
“Classic” lineup construction doesn’t always, er, line up with what’s mathematically best.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
And Geren, i think, makes out the lineup by asking a monkey what would be best
His lineup will probably be something like: Davis, Crisp, Sweeney, Kouzmanoff, Suzuki, Cust, Ellis, Barton, Pennington.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
It sounds ridiculous but it's probably true
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
The part about the monkey or the predicted lineup?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Certainly the lineup. Maybe the monkey.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Well, chimps have the ability to learn
I bet you could’ve taught a chimp that Cabrera in the 2 hole was a bad idea, and he would’ve gotten it a lot sooner than Geren did.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
chimp =/= monkey
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Chimps have the ability
Geren does not!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jan 16, 2010 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
Geren lineup!
Crisp
Davis
Cust
Kouzmanoff
Suzuki
Ellis
Sweeney
Pennington
Barton
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
No.
That was how it was with Howe and Macha, but since Geren is his buddy Billy lets him make up his own lineup. (That’s why he has to ask his monkey.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Move Cust down 2 spots
He should never see 3 or 4 no matter what other choices we have. (IMO)
Like it or not, he's our best hitter.
He deserves #2 or #4.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
We are in trouble
then.
#2 I would agree with but #4. No way.
agree
good mini-analysis of that lineup. not too worried about the overall weakness because we are in rebuild. as long as we don’t lose davis (and the spark he provides), i’d be more than okay with this until taylor & carter come up. plus the youth factor means some of these hitters prolly get even better (barton, sweeney, zuk).
For the record, the actual lineup that you'd want to use goes something like this:
Best hitters: 1, 2, 4
Second tier: 3, 5
Then just slot the rest in descending order.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Any chance Sogard can convert to SS?
I have no knowledge of the young man whatsoever so this may be a dumb question. But I thought Weeks was our post-MaEl favorite and right now we have to pray that Pennington can stay serviceable at SS. Yugh.
Sounds like he can barely play 2B
Lockard compared him to Kevin Melillo pre-injury.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
I honestly don't know the purpose in even taking Sogard
Do they really need mediocre middle infield roster filler?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Did they need a 4th OF in hairston?
Cunningham was just as blocked here like Buck, Patterson, and Fox. I dont see any of them overtaking taylor and likely sweeney who the A’s value enough. Even though some disagree, they are committed to rajai and crisp for 2010 at least
by MagicMike23 on Jan 16, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Why is that any worse than mediocre outfield roster filler?
I mean, as long as we’re just throwing around characterizations without any evidence.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Padres fans say
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/draft_report/y2007/index.jsp?mc=sogard
Arm Strength: His arm is just OK, but he makes all the plays and his throws are on the money. He has shown the ability to throw well on the run.
Fielding: Sogard is solid defensively with excellent defensive instincts.
Range: Sogard has limited range, but if he gets to a ball, he makes the play
Well, he has little range, so he doesn't make errors because he never gets to a ball. Excellent.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Hey, Derek Jeter has a million gold gloves
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
That report sounds a bit like Adam Kennedy as a 2Bman
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
except younger and with less of an Angel taint
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
It's been a while since I've read the bible, but
I don’t think Angels have taints. That just seems wrong.
Sure they do...
but they wipe with Angel Soft, so it’s all purelike and such.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
They used to,
but Lackey signed with the Red Sox
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 17, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
How hard is it to convert a good CF'er into a 2bman?
The Cards converted Skippy Schu to 2b with decent results. I can’t remember if he had already played that position previously, though.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Jan 16, 2010 10:26 AM PST reply actions
Well we wasn't good at 2B, but he did improve as the year went on.
Seattle’s trying it with Ackley. We’ll see.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
Ya, he was -7 on the year at 2b, according to UZR. But I’m willing to bet he’s more of an average 2b this year, not a below average one. I mean, he’s never been a worldbeater, but he’s much more valuable to the Cards at 2b than OF, obviously. Just wondering what kind of success could be had with that, bc we have/had a lot of OF’s, and Ellis is gone after this year.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Jan 16, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Another thing about Kouzmanoff's D
I’ve read most of the two trade threads, but I have not seen a mention that Kouzmanoff broke the NL 3B fielding percentage record last season. His glove is in the Hall of Fame (although if he is ever to be found guilty of using PEDs, the glove will be removed, based on a vote by baseball writers).
I don’t follow the new metrics of quantifying a defensive player’s worth, even though I think it is pretty cool, but I must say, if Kouzmanoff is only rated as above average, he must have zero range. Or maybe he is a much better defender than his ratings suggest?
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 16, 2010 10:26 AM PST reply actions
I like
his lack of hair
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
I concur
HIPPIES
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
jealous!
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
LIAR
sniff
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
That smell is patchouli.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
from the hippies?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Yup. They put it in their hair.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
88 rbi in 141 games
I believe he was on pace for about 100 rbi before missing 17 games due to injury in september
LOL. Okay, well, then that settles it!
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Since you are overreacting on how terrible this trade is.
What wouldve you done instead for 3b?
Wouldve you given up Sweeney and Gio for Laroche?
Signed Lopez, Hairston, or Tejada?
Traded for another player?
Open competition this spring and hope chavez, fox, mcpherson is decent enough?
by MagicMike23 on Jan 16, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
Nothing, now.
Hell no.
Hairston Jr., possibly (but not to start at third. They need a backup SS). Lopez as a last resort. Tejada not if he was willing to pay the A’s to play.
I don’t know. Give me a proposed deal and I’ll let you know. Yes, I’d trade for Wright or Zimmerman. I don’t think those were options. Can’t really answer this question.
To me “decent enough” in a lost season is pretty much “He won’t trip and fall on his face and embarrass professional baseball.” So yes. I think 3B would’ve given you, at worst, 1 fewer win compared to Kouzmanoff. I think it’s a lot closer to 0-.5 wins though.
The REASON I’m “overreacting” is because they just traded a guy with a .900 (.899, but I rounded up) AAA OPS because he’s “blocked” by Coco fucking Crisp.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 16, 2010 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
This is the first thing I've said
with regards to this trade and instead of making my own comment I figured I’d just jump on with you. I have pretty much the same respect for Cunningham as you do, meaning that I feel that his AAA success will translate to the MLB to a certain degree. I’m disappointed that Cunningham never got a chance in Oakland because I feel like he could have become a big part of our future teams (When I think of an OF consisting of Taylor, Desme/Brown, and Cunningham I salivate).
That being said, I like this trade. While Cunningham could have been an important player for us there’s always the possibility that he fell flat in the majors. Kouz represents a known commodity. He’s not the greatest player in the world but he’s much better than the worst and definitely represents a real upgrade at a position that we’ve all been complaining about since Joanie loved Chachi. We actually got an actual 3Bman who is actually in his prime and can actually do stuff good.
So maybe Cunningham turns out to be Aaron Rowand or maybe he turns into Adam Piatt, but the fact that we have a good 3Bman who is under control for the foreseeable future makes me very excite! Yes!
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jan 16, 2010 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
What the heck does Al Hrabosky have to do with anything?
oh wait… that’s Borat…
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
I should’ve known that the picture would garner more interest than my words.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jan 16, 2010 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
Pictures are worth a thousand words
Your words are worth two cents.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Which way to the bank?
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jan 17, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Adam Piatt!!!!
Great Comp – that guy also had an AMAZING AAA OPS!!!! I heard he’s a mean insurance salesman these day – that AAA OPS took him far!
Trading hitting for more hitting
This Beane’s offseason chess match. They hardly touched their pitching depth, unless one considers Jeff Gray much of a loss. They are more than likely aware of taylor and sogard since scouting them in the pac 10 years ago.
Taylor
Kouzmanoff
Fox
Sogard
for
Wallace
Hairston
Cunningham
Spencer
"Sogard" sounds like something I would buy at Ikea.
Not furniture, though. More likely something for the kitchen — like, I don’t know, maybe a weird-looking plastic can opener.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
We need Ken Arneson to chime in here with his Scandinavian language expertise
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
My dad was born and raised in Stockholm
And I can confidently say that any Swede could survive off of Swedish meatballs covered in caviar from a tube with a nice glass of lingonberry concentrate mixed with sparkling water to wash it all down.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jan 16, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
aqua vitae!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
more like aqua regia...
meatballs don’t just dissolve on their own, you know!
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
I might have missed it amidst the comments above.
But doesn’t anyone find it odd that the Padres traded away Hairston to the A’s only to grab him back a few months later?
I don’t get it.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
More than likely Beane realizing his mistake
Though I doubt he’ll lose any sleep over regret trading away web, italiano, gallagher. Swapping out Hairston for Kouz seems like a fair deal than including another prospect or two. Once they signed Crisp and Cust, and shifted Rajai to LF. The AB’s for for Hairston wouldve declined.
by MagicMike23 on Jan 16, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
PURE SPECULATION
I think the hariston trade had to do with driving up the price in the Holliday Market.
END SPECULATION
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Unfortunately the Holliday trade didn't drive up the price for Hariston.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
How does one drive up the hairston market
When Beane jumped in the last minute, initiated the talks with the padres, and outbid another team. There were rumors of giants interested in hairston back then. Also rumors of philles inquiring about both holliday and hairston (even after A’s traded for him). Which ended once they go ben francisco from indians.
by MagicMike23 on Jan 16, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
One drives up the hariston market
by not having him play through injury , waiting until mid 2009 to trade him.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Just because they traded him, doesn't mean they don't like him
They just saw value at the time, and now they see value to bring him back. The two trades are essentially separate
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
No, no, there's definitely some kind of Milo Minderbinder angle to this
My guess — they’ll start serving chocolate-covered cotton at the Coliseum this year.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
What's good for B&B Enterprises is good for the fans
Everybody's got a little light under the sun.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jan 16, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
Yosarian?
Do you want to fly with me?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I Yearn for You, Tragically
Washington Irvine
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
My take
I think the Padres got the better end of the value swap in this trade, but that it also improves the A’s. Oakland had a bunch of OFers of similar quality, so they dealt a couple to fill a position of need. Of course, it’s the A’s own fault that they had such a surplus of OFers following the first Hairston trade and the Crisp signing.
I think Kouz is a tiny bit better than average at 3B, while Hairston is pretty much an average CF. Kouz is under team control for 3 years as opposed to 2 for Hairston, so the A’s come out on the good side of that swap.
Cunningham is a better prospect than Sogard, probably a bit more so than the gap between Kouz and Hairston due to all the service time each has remaining. They’re the same age, and they each project to have the same offensive value relative to their position (both project to be ~5 runs below average in their age-24 season). Cunningham looks to be an an average defensive corner OFer, while Sogard is likely -5 or so defensively at 2B.
Hairston’s departure creates a roster spot for Patterson, who is out of options. If Chavez is healthy enough to be on the roster, he’ll probably push Fox to AAA. The other two spots on the bench will be Powell and the backup SS (Miles, at the moment). The current starting lineup projects to be above average defensively everywhere except SS, but Suzuki is the only guy who hits better than average for his position.
The A’s have to have the smallest offensive difference between their MLB lineup and AAA lineup of any franchise.
What happens to Cardenas now?
This trade likely puts the stop to a 3b conversion fulltime. Though I’m sure he’ll play both 2b and 3b in AAA. With Sogard likely headed to AAA Sacramento too. McPherson, Baisley, and Valdez will be competing for AB’s as roster filler
Given that he's played a lot at 2b, I'd imagine they'll give him time at third
Kouzmanov is just a lid covering a gaping manhole – should he go down, and realistically, we’ve seen how possible that is, we’re back to square one
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
We have a club option for 2011.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Why on earth would we vest that option?
Unless Ellis qualifies as a type A or B FA, let him go already and get Cardenas in there.
Do you mean "doesn't qualify" as a Type A/B?
If he qualifies, the A’s would (potentially) want to offer him arbitration instead of picking up the option.
If he doesn’t qualify, then the option is the only way to retain him for 2011 if the team wants/needs him for that season.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
"Finally! I no longer have to hit in that cavern at Petco!"
“I’ve been traded to where!?”
Well, to be honest
Coliseum is a pitcher’s park but it’s still closer to being neutral park than to being Petco North. I think Coliseum rates around 20th place in most offensive categories while Petco is dead last in just about everything.
Like it overall, a few thoughts
1. This will lead to a huge increase in Cosby references, and quotes. What’s this new guy’s nickname gonna be? I’m torn between Jello Puddin Pop and Chocolate Cake for Breakfast.
2. Like many, I’m stoked that we finally have an actual decent MLB 3bman. Even assuming he never gets better this is a huge step forward over Hannahan, Kennedy,etc. And cost controlled for 3 years. Bonus.
3. That said, I don’t think the A’s are all that high on him. I mean they tried to throw $24M at Adrian Beltre before going after him. The Kouz has likely been available for some time now, and the fact that the A’s pursued other more expensive options first probably means they don’t really like him as a long term solution. I mean, maybe it’s possible that the A’s would rather have Cunningham than $24M, but I doubt it.
The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart
by Hegenberger Road on Jan 16, 2010 1:48 PM PST reply actions
Kouz market actually just picked up prior to trade
With San Diego suddenly announcing they wanted to clear his salary to hopefully sign someone like Dye. Prior to this, there wasn’t much chatter. So its possible they recently lowered their asking price.
Am I the only one who doesn't understand the Bill Cosby reference?
Who are you talking about?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
At first I thought it said Crosby and I was afraid to read further.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
I thought they were talking about a Cosby Sweater,
and I was a little bit disgusted because I don’t much like Froot Loops.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
Fruit Loops rock, my brother!
That toucan’s the mad note, yo!
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
Is that a Scrubs reference?
Or am I just retarded?
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 17, 2010 5:40 PM PST up reply actions
It has to be one or the other?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Thanks
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 17, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
No, that was from my skull.
I’m alarmed you would think it’s a reference to that show.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 17, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
Funny Coincidence
I’ve been watching Scrubs here since they have every episode. Except for the “72-minute watching, 54-minute wait” rule, it’s thoroughly enjoying. I am on the seventh episode of the fifth season.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 17, 2010 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
The quality goes up and down throughout the seasons,
but every once in a while they hit you with a truly great episode. It’s too bad that this new season is so…meh.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
It reads like a palindrome.
“That toucan’s the mad note, yo” is the sort of thing that almost makes sense but not quite — like “sit on a potato pan” or “go hang a salami” — so you’d only say it because it spells something else backward. Except it doesn’t.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
A palindrome is a kind of elephant, right?
Just checking.
-Cindi
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes, it's a one-hump elephant.
A two-hump elephant is a palinbact.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I'm pretty sure a one-hump elephant is
“Ms. Sheridan’s last 10 years of eating and sex.” Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! It’s funny cuz it’s TRUE!
-Cindi
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
maybe you are.
I for one won’t know what will fly out of my mouth more next season: Dammit or Jesus Christ.
Of course, I’m 35 and still have to stay in my crib when my parents leave for the afternoon.
I just wish that Beane thought to himself, “The Giant. Has. Money.” each time that the Wolf came home at night.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
the Kouz = the Cos?
Apparently that made a lot more sense INSIDE my head than written out.
Carry on.
The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart
by Hegenberger Road on Jan 18, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
The Cos > The Cros
And that’s coming from someone who doesn’t much care for jello pudding.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Looking back at the team's farm system rebuild
Now gone are…
Carlos Gonzalez
Sean Gallagher
Aaron Cunningham
Brett Wallace
Matt Spencer
Matt Murton
Patterson, Eveland on the bubble. Outman and DSL TJ surgeries.
Sweeney has somewhat exceeded expectations
Buck and Barton have yet to establish themselves, might get their 2nd chances in 2010
Gio still showing some potential, but inconsistency.
Donaldson and Cardenas still remains to be seen where they end up. Cardenas could be the 2010 2b, Donaldson could be Suzuki’s backup in 2011 or trade bait.
Everything points to this future lineup being built around Carter and Taylor.
To be fair
Spencer and Murton were long shots to begin with (albeit for slightly different reasons) while Sean Gallagher pitched his way out of the A’s plans.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Thats fair
They still acquired 4 others OF’s with varying upside. If you told me a couple yrs ago, Sweeney would be the one left remaining, I wouldve been surprised.
Isn't this the point, though?
That by there very nature, not all prospects will become valuable major league players, so it’s better to have a greater number of more highly rated ones. When the rebuilding process started, the A’s did not. Then they did. Some of them have not made it with Oakland, but some have, and others maybe will.
Oh, and Brett Anderson.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
by bobnothing on Jan 16, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think there's something more to this that nobody's touched on yet
Even though he’s bald, Hairston reminded the A’s too much of “Shaggy” Gallagher, so they got rid of him. Buck’s still here because he cut his hair.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
To be fair, Sean Gallagher's hair is very silly
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
jealous.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
I prefer the word aerodynamic. Also, this
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
okay, that is silly.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 17, 2010 6:50 AM PST up reply actions
According to Wikipedia
Kouzmanoff hit a grand slam on the first pitch he saw in the majors!
The A's castrated Hairston before sending him back to SD?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
hahah
the madness dynasty stops here
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Chavez at first base?
according to Rick Hurd, Beane is considering moving Chavvy to first base…and is now looking for a utility SS as Miles has little experience there (?)
O RLY???
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Doesn't make sense
They want to stunt Barton’s growth even further, just to accomodate chavez. I realize he’s been a non factor going on 3 seasons now and they want to get some useful value out of him. But I would just accept the reality he won’t be here past 2010 and move on. I’m not even a big barton fan, but whatever chavez does or doesn’t do is irelevant to this team. If anything, I would say out of self fish reasons Chavez may want to prove to other teams he’s not completely done and setup possible interest in his 2011 free agent market.
Agreed
I’d rather have Barton there than Chavez.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 16, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
Idea of Chavez playing first while Barton is on the bench or in Sacramento
That would actually pissed me off if I didn’t already know that Chavez will be broken by Tax Day anyway. Even If by some miracle he’s healthy enough to play first, I can’t see his bat justifying that. Let’s face it, chances of Chavez being a good first baseman in 2010 are just a little bit better than chance of Beane being a good fourth outfielder. Guy hasn’t been an elite hitter since 2004. Even 2005-2007 Chavez would have been an average first baseman at best. And Chavez we saw (or you didn’t if you blinked) in 2008 and 2009 was simply uncapable of even resembling a competent hitter.
I basically agree with this
Chavez was a great player, in his prime, because he combined a pretty good bat with outstanding defense at a tough position.
There’s little if any reason to believe that either of those characteristics still holds true.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
They have to give him any chance to be useful, but I don't see him unseating Barton.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. I wrote that post midseason during Barton's poor 2008,
and things have changed since then.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Chavez as backup shortstop?
Chavez as an even more expensive infield (and maybe outfield) backup than Bobby Crosby?
No I’m not making this up, Slusser is reporting her latest conversation with Chavez.
Well, we're already paying him.
Might as well use him.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
This idea makes me smile.
I don’t know if it’s smart. But it’s funny, and I love Chavvy. It would amuse me greatly to see him play SS.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
This was pretty much my reaction to that piece
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
That it would amuse iglew greatly?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
bob's a very empathetic person.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 17, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
nice of you to put the 'em' there
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Kouzmanoff = younger pedro feliz?
I was looking at the stats and feliz had a run with the giants in his late 20’s to early 30’s of around 20 hr/80 rbi a season. Like Kouzmanoff, Feliz doesnt walk much. He cut his K’s way down in Philly. But going from the ballpark in SF to Philly didnt boost his bat as expected. Feliz has been a well above average defensive 3b going on 5 + seasons now. The upside to Kouzmanoff, he’s been so terrible at petco and still managed to put up a league average bat. the last 3 seasons. So his offensive stats should improve some. ALso having rajai and crisp at the top of the order should create more rbi opportunities.
Because he can HR with 2 out and the bases empty?
Zing! Oh, I di’int!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Big difference between Kouz & Feliz
It might not mean anything now, but Kouz threw up a slash line of .332/.395/.556 in the minors, which ended only 3 years ago. His current mlb slash line is the dramatically different .261/.308/.435.
Now, he’s only 3 years into his career, all of which were spent at Petco, where he owns a completely pathetic slash of .239/.290./.394. Am I the only one who thinks he could be a dramatically different hitter at some point? I’m not saying he reverts back to anything close to his minor league numbers but if he figures out his approach again not having to deal with Petco anymore, we could have a pretty damn okay hitter on board.
For the record, Feliz minor vs major looks like:
.268/.302/.430 vs .254/.293/.422
which is strangely almost exactly the same. Feliz has always been the type of hitter he is, Kouz has not. Was it all moving to SD that killed Kouz’s offense? Or will the switch to the AL hurt him equally as much? We don’t know but it will be interesting to find out.
So that I don't feel so bad about giving up Tintin,
someone show me what European cartoon character Kouzmanoff looks like.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Billy the Whizz?
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
"the pursuit of Marco Scutaro?"
I have not heard of the A’s trying to reaquire Marco. Does any one have a link to an article or something? Can someone fill me in? It sounds like it is not going to happen but bringing Scutaro back would make me very happy.
24 is my age 22 is my gauge
by catfishunterSthompson on Jan 17, 2010 8:15 PM PST reply actions
He was offered more money by Oakland but signed with Boston anyway.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Awesome!
Been really busy of late and this is great news.
Round Xmas I hoping the A’s would find a 3rd baseman.
My picks were first Kouz or if not Inge ( sorry Nico. ), Happy day!
May I just say:
Brandon Inge!!! Kevin Kouzmanoff!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
the Kouz
thanx Billy for finally getting us a healthy 3B. What’s going to happen with Chavy if he’s finally healthy? Will he be a utility player?
HAY GUYS BEEN GONE SINCE FRIDAY DID I MISS ANYTHING THIS WEEKEND?
No?
Oh, ok.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
Did you hear the A's signed Jack Cust?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
That's the guy with all the strickouts?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
recent trade
This was a good trade because Chavez is finished and the A’s had too many outfielders.Trading for Fox was also a good trade. A versatile player who can play many positions and dh. Resigning Cust was a mistake. He is a one dimensional player who strikes out too often and never hits above 235. He will kill many rallies because he can’t put the ball in play consistently and he has no speed
"never hits above 235"
Jack Cust hit .256 in 2007.
Also he’s not slow.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
what about one dimensional posters
who bring up arbitrary falsehoods about the game in relation to Cust?
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