A's Acquire Kevin Kouzmanoff
by baseballgirl on Jan 15, 2010 4:18 PM PST
Email
PrintFrom Susan Slusser:
The A's acquire Kouzmanoff and give up Scott Hairston....who came from the Padres last year. Two other players involved, trying to confirm.
Kouzmanoff and a prospect for Hairston and Aaron Cunningham, confirmed.
UPDATE, 7:17 PDT: The prospect going to the A's is Double-A infielder Eric Sogard.
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Gio and Cunningham
Initially according to MBLTR. They just updated stating it could be Hairston instead of Gio. It can’t be all three though, right?
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 15, 2010 4:21 PM PST reply actions
This is the equivalent of taking it back to the store
and saying “look, I got the wrong one, can I exchange it?”
“Sure, but the Kouzmanoff 3000 model is a bit more expensive, so you’ll have to pay the difference”
“Great, will you take one Cunningham as well, then?”
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Well, presumably they didn't
which is why they had to take him back to the store they got him from
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
As noted in the DLD
I really hope Kouzmanoff improves, because I’m honestly not all that impressed by averages of about 20 HR, 90 RBI and an OPS+ hovering around 100 with a bad K:BB rate, even considering that all basically coming with half his career in Petco Park.
On the other hand, I don’t mind Hairston being gone if that’s the case, nor do I see Cunningham having much of a spot in the A’s outfield.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
UZR has had him at 2.7 and 7.5 runs above average the last two years
I don’t think anybody really expects Kouzmanoff to be a great A’s player, but since the A’s don’t have a third baseman to speak of, it plugs a hole with a slightly above average player. If Weeks and Cardenas continue to develop, I doubt Kouzmanoff would block Cardenas; or perhaps Weeks makes the switch to CF that has been talked about since he was drafted.
by Opus Youngblood on Jan 15, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
If it at least gives them some stability at 3B then it's probably a net win in the end
I’m just not expecting a whole bunch offensively.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Granted, he's not the second-coming of Mike Schmidt at 3B...
…but let’s be realistic… the second-coming of Mike Schmidt isn’t available. I like this move.
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
Slusser now says Kouz and a Pads' prospect for Hairston and Cunningham, and says it's confirmed
Thank god Gio’s not involved.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Cunningham hasn't really gotten a chance in the majors
but his numbers in the minors have always been really good. SD might really benefit from the A’s’ OF logjam.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think this is good for both teams
If Harrison rebounds and Cunningham pans out, this would be a clear win for the Padres.
For the A’s, they had to trade some outfielders and they ended up with someone that can fill the hole at 3B. No complaints there.
I wonder who the prospect is.
Harrison, eh?
Is that what y’all call him down south?
’round these here parts we call ’im Hariston.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 3:09 AM PST up reply actions
Wow!
If Gio’s not involved, what is there not to like?
Cunningham and Hairston were not in the A’s OF plans.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
/Travis'stock has dropped so much he doesn't have any trade value any more..
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
He's moved from 9th to 7th on the outfield depth chart.
It’s a start.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
looks like iglew
and the random padres fan, were right.
wait, hairston, gio, and cunningham? i really hope that’s not the case…
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
New Outfield
I think it’s good for both Michael Taylor and Travis Buck.
We’re basically getting a league average third baseman. But that’s better than we’ve had for several years.
It's even better for Patterson IMO...
…as he has no options left IIRC. Now he might stick as the 4th or 5th OF/backup middle infielder.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
hey, let's not be souring the milk here with all this 'Patterson' talk
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
LOL, sorry....
Still, I think Patterson could be a good fit as the 24th or 25th player who can plug in here and there and pinch run for Cust/Chavez in the late innings. I also have hope that his bat will finally wake up in the majors. But I know the Buck lovers are rooting for a comeback, and Buck has had more success overall (and certainly more power).
Just for kicks, ML numbers for:
Cunningham: .211/.271/.338/609
Patterson: .233/.320/.310/630
Buck: .257/.336/.435/771
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
I think Patterson's problem is his glove
He seems to be really terrible in the field, and without much power he’ll have a hard time playing regularly. If he were just average at 2B or CF, he could be really useful.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
and his noodle arm
I could throw better with my tongue
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 15, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
exactly right
his glove is fine, in as much as he seems to be able to catch the ball reasonably competantly (or at least, so far as I can tell), but it’s what happens next that horrifies me
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Writing on the wall for Chavez, Fox and McPherson?
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
More than enough...
….if you’re talkin’ Texas cities!
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 15, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
Did anyone ever truly think McPherson was going to make the team?
I thought it would be a miracle if he did.
seems right
But then Farhan Zaidi (sp?) apparently said that Fox could get 300 ABs in a utility role (before the Kouzmanoff trade).
My random guess is that Chavez plays often for the first month before going down for the count with another injury.
Way to go out on a limb with that guess there. ;)
by LoneStranger on Jan 15, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
It's more optimistic than my guess
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
haha, right
I guess I mean as opposed to playing a Nomar role. Chavez told Urban that he’s willing to give it all he can this season, as it may be his last.
I have no doubt Chavy gives all he can.
I’m just worried he doesn’t have much left in the can.
by LoneStranger on Jan 15, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
You put Dallas in AAA
And if he rakes you have something to work with and find some room for him or wait for injuries. If he doesn’t, nothing is really lost.
Chavez… moving on…
Fox will see some time at DH against lefties and can spell Barton or Kouz. I was hoping he would get more of a chance but he is versatile enough that he should get at bats somewhere given our typical injuries.
McChavfoxnoff?
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 15, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
McKouzmaphoxez
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 15, 2010 6:41 PM PST up reply actions
This might be the stat that makes me most excited about Kouzmanoff
2007 144
2008 154
2009 141
Games played.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jan 15, 2010 4:29 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
THIS
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 15, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
I think this is the first time I've ever been excited about this statistic.
Thanks, Larry Davis!
Maybe once he's an Athletic...
….he’ll have a breakout injury year.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 15, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
Sir, you have just doomed us all
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
LOL
First time I’ve ever laughed at a post on AN
welcome to the club.
you’re cracked like the rest of us now.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
KOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZZZZZZ
Even better, I won’t have to spell hairston’s name wrong again.
I told ya a few day ago. I said Hairston + miles and 800,000 --close
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
unless we sign the other hairston
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
it seems like a buy high - sell low on hairston
but since it still improves the team based on positional needs i guess that’s acceptable.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Great move...
we should have traded for Kouz in the 1st place instead of getting scotty
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
I still think Gallagher has a bright future....
+ the Pads can now move Chase to 3B and BIG Kyle Banks to LF
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
Blanks
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 15, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
dye? if true this makes me more confident that the padres front office doesn't know what they're doing and this trade will work out for us
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Why do you think an injury prone young pitcher with declining stuff and command has a bright future?
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Jan 15, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
Good GM-ing
Got to like this trade. Trade away excess for a need. In the American league away from Petco Kouz could put up Sal Bando-like numbers 25-30 100RBIs.
In 2008 he had the worst strikeout-to-walk ratio in the majors, 6.04
per wikipedia
his stats are NOT impressive
Oh, but if I catch a line drive by a girl, that’s girl-on-girl action, the twiceness is eliminated, and it just counts once - gigglingone
he is breathing, and plays MLB-level 3B without a history of injuries
Gotta take what we can get at this point
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 15, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
He played at Petco Park.
And yes, that does make a difference in strikeouts and walks. Pitchers at Petco can pound the zone unafraid of the consequences, because they know that even in the unlikely event that they give up a hit, the runner will probably just end up stranded anyway.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Anyone know if Kouz can play SS at all?
Is he our defacto backup SS? Cliff struggles against lefties so if you could swap Kouz and Fox on the left side against a tough lefty it would be nice.
I can't get excited about Kouzmanoff
Isn’t this a guy who gets on base 30% of the time in the NL?
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 15, 2010 4:35 PM PST reply actions
they're playing him for his back
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
by bobnothing on Jan 15, 2010 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I want my baby back (baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back ribs).
by LoneStranger on Jan 15, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
(barbecue sauuuuuuuuce)
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 15, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions
We're getting him for
his [non-broken] body. Woo!
No Gio + getting a prospect means we win this trade
lol if the prospect is Gallagher.
SO STOKED WE HAVE A GEM OF A DEFENSIVE 3B NOW!!!!
Name another team with plus defenders at all 8 positions, you cant, its us and no one else!
Apropos of nothing,
When attending A’s/Padres games last year, I wish I could yell Koooooooooooooouuuuuuzzzzzzzzz…
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
Cardenas stays at 2nd now?
Possible 2nd half lineup?
C Suzuki
1B Barton
2B Cardenas
SS Pennington
3B Kouz
RF Taylor
CF Sweeney
LF Carter
DH Cust
If Cardenas puts up numbers at 3B in Sac
enough to get called up, he will play 3B and Kouzmanoff will fade into the sunset.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 15, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
Ellis is a goner.
Contract year, he’s done with us come July 31 to whatever (other) playoff contending team needs a 2B. Cardenas is our 2B for the next 6 years at least.
Why would they keep Cardenas at 3rd?
Ellis is the one who is 32. Kouz is 28 and under contract for 3 years.
I think, if they are right
and Cardenas can play 3b, that is where he will stay.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 15, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
uh, the Oakland organization
And the intention they publically have to move Cardenas to 3B this season, IIRC.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 15, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
That was when they had a huge hole at 3B.
Cardenas belongs at second. We need corner players with some pop.
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jan 15, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
No
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 15, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
Jemille Weeks comes to mind
at second base…Cardenas now has time to develop at 3B …… barring trades, of course.
I think there's one big hole
SHORT of dream status, ahem.
Really?
Kouzmanoff, Pennington and (pending further notice) Barton aren’t terribly thrilling to me at the moment.
um
Kouzmanoff is kind of awesome. Id rather have him than Adrian Beltre all day every day
Barton & Pennington are 24 and its pretty lame to judge such young players.
I just don't see how he's "kind of awesome"
A bit above average defensively, and a mediocre bat. The math just does NOT add up for his Fangraphs WAR over the past 3 years. I keep looking at it going “How does a guy with below-average hitting (even when you factor in PetCo) and kinda ok defense amount to almost 3 WAR?”
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
If you're going to add up all three years
You need to do it on both the offensive and defensive aspects. Over three years, per fangraphs, Kouzmanoff is 8.2 runs above average offensively and 8.3 runs above average defensively. His offensive and defensive performance has ranged from league-average (less than 2 runs below average is close enough that it’s barely significant) to slightly above-average.
You also need to recognize the difference between “replacement” and average. A league-average player has been about 2 wins above replacement. Kouzmanoff, averaging a little more than half of a win above average, is nearly a 3 WAR player.
I have NO idea where you're getting the numbers
But your premise is wrong. You need more years of defense than offense.
Secondly, for his career, UZR has Kouzmanoff at 2.8 runs/150. That’s 3 runs above replacement a year. Not 8.3 runs above average.
Third, I KNOW what the numbers suggest. They’re trying to compensate for PetCo being hell on hitters. I get that. But his road numbers aren’t impressive to me, either. And it’s not like Oakland is some kind of hitter’s haven.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
UZR is measured with a baseline at average, not replacement.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
by danmerqury on Jan 15, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I am like 90% sure that "Average" IS "replacement"
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
Replacement is miles below average.
Player talent isn’t distributed normally (think bell curve). Instead, there’s a huge amount of bad players and very few good ones. Replacement is what’s free and always available. Actual league-average talent is definitely a useful commodity.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
I know all this. But I'm almost positive MGL or Tango has said before that with defense average (0) = replacement
Because it’s a lot easier to find a minor league scrub who can field just as well as most major leaguers.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
...
I’m with CoCo.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Did anyone see Kimmel's appearance on Leno last night?
Oh my god, Kimmel eviscerated Leno on his own show. Just brutal.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
doing an entire show as leno was also amusing, but only because leno is so not funny that kimmel could easily manage it.
the best part was his music guy doing kevin eubanks:
“kevin, did you see this? did you hear about this?”
“ha ha ha. i don’t know yet, man. ha ha ha.”
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
also, norm mcdonald called this in his final appearance on late night with conan
the first 2 mins
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
I dont wanna see Coco Gogo either!
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
That was the "If They Mated"
with Coco Crisp and Lady GaGa, right?
by baseline_replacement_commenter on Jan 16, 2010 5:32 AM PST up reply actions
This is 100% wrong.
UZR converts to Feilding Runs Above Average. wOBA converts to batting runs above average. neither has to do with replacement which is 20 runs below league average.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Jan 15, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
I KNOW I've seen somewhere from one of those two guys that 0 UZR runs was considered replacement defensively
I have found some others confirming this, but I can’t find MGL or Tango’s comments on it. I did find this comment at Fangraphs:
replacement-level players tend to be average fielders. So, in your model, average IS replacement-level. Other stats that use a significant replacement-level adjustment for both offense and defense (like BPro’s WARP) are putting the overall replacement level too low, about what a decent AAA player would provide.
Wish I could find more on this.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
I think the right way to think about it is
replacement level players are ~2 wins below average. It could be with the bat or the glove. But I don’t think anyone would be surprised to hear that a lot of the players toiling away in the minors are more like wRAA = -20 and UZR/150 = 0, instead of the other way around.
But that doesn’t change the fact that Kouz’s UZR numbers put him slightly above average for ML 3rd basemen (which is what 0 UZR would be).
Colin basically does an outstanding job of explaining that comment.
However before you make such bold statements like Fangraphs WAR doesn’t add up you might want to make sure you know what the components of WAR are and how it is calculated.
The fact that more of a population size could play UZR=0 defense at whatever position than hitters could hit at league average levels is really irrelevant for starting players, since they have to have an acceptable level of offensive contribution to stay on the field. Could I play a better RF than Jack Cust? Possibly, but there is no way in hell I would be able to hit even at pitcher standards which would mean i would never ever see the field.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Jan 18, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
A consistently 2.7 WAR player over the last 3 years.
We wouldnt have gotten 1.5 out of the scraps we have there.
And he’s awesome defensively, not a bit above average.
He's NOT awesome defensively
Stop saying that because it isn’t true. You’re not supported by the facts here unless you want to only look at the smallest of samples.
And I KNOW what his WAR is. And I look at his actual production and see he’s being given lots of PetCo credit. Mostly, I think he just isn’t good at hitting. Move him to the AL and a park that’s almost as tough on hitters and see that he’s still going to be a .315 wOBA guy with meh defense. I really don’t see how he’s much better overall than a guy like Jack Hannahan.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
"Move him to the AL and a park that’s almost as tough on hitters and see that he’s still going to be a .315 wOBA guy with meh defense."
So you’re suggesting that you know better how to park- and league-adjust than the fangraphs team?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Not in the slightest.
I’m saying that I don’t think it’s PetCo’s fault that Kouzmanoff’s offense sucks. The park adjusting formulas don’t account for a guy just being not good at hitting.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
No
They account for a guy just not looking good at hitting because he plays at PetCo.
Which is what you’re saying. Which is saying you don’t think they account for that correctly. Which is, like, your opinion man…
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Except he's not especially good on the road either.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
Analyzing road stats = analysis fail
C’mon dude… you know this stuff.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
My point is that he's meh on the road and terrible at home
At some point, he just has to be not that good at hitting, right? I mean, I don’t get WHERE the “he can hit ok” comes from.
I’d like him to be awesome here, but I just can’t figure out how anybody can expect that.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
My point is that
taking that information into account, he’s worth 2+ WAR.
Everyone (almost) hits better at home than on the road. Everyone (almost) hits better at not-Petco than Petco. This is factored into the calculation.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
So when Kouzmanoff has a .310 wOBA in Oakland this year
That’ll be good enough for you?
No park is going to convince him to take a walk once in a while. Even if he gets to 25 homers in Oakland (and I’m not sure that happens), the .320 OBP he’ll sport just won’t make me happy.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
I'm assuming his wOBA will be a bit higher than that
Since Oakland is better for hitters than Petco. And given wOBA balances things correctly I won’t care that he does it with a low OBP.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I'm falling into hyperbole to make a point
And I shouldn’t do that.
I’d be slightly surprised by a .310 wOBA from him this year. I think it’ll be about .320.
I think it comes down to two things: Do you like his defense/do you trust his 2009 UZR numbers and what do you think Cunningham will become.
My answers: Not at all and Very good. Yours are the opposite. I don’t really know if a numbers argument is going to help anything here. We both know the numbers. We’re just disagreeing on what they say about the future.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
Perhaps you're right
My answers are that I see Kouz as a 2+ WAR player at a position of greatest need and see Cunningham as a significant AAAA risk.
Kouz is not a star, but I don’t think Cunningham is a starter since I don’t know what he does that is better than a lot of other guys.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Hmm
You know, I think we have another disagreement then.
Because I don’t care that 3B is a need right now (you do have warm bodies to fill the position). The A’s aren’t winning in 2010. In my mind, Cunningham is the better player for the next X number of years (even if at this precise moment in time, Kouzmanoff might be a bit better). I want the better player, even if I have other guys at his position (this is especially true since money is not an issue with Cunningham).
I think, at best, this is an overpay for a guy who might not be here a year from now if Cardenas continues his ascent to the majors.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
Don't Give Up
The odds are very much against the A’s being a contender in 2010, we all agree. But there are scenarios where they do contend, most of which involve Gio or Cahill moving to the next level, and quality seasons from Duke, Anderson and Braden. Should the A’s get lucky with Taylor and Carter doing damage from the moment they arrive in, let’s say, May, the A’s can clear a path to the post-season.
This isn’t a likely scenario by any means, but I would hate to give up on a season just because someone who was #7 on the depth chart in the outfield shouldn’t be traded.
Why are the odds so tough?
The Angels degraded in only a serious way. Texas is still well, Texas. The Mariners made a splash, but had a lot of splashing to do. At the end of the day, the Division is going to be a dogfight, and 85 wins may well take it. And these A’s are capable of that.
85 wins will not take the AL west, that's what people say every year now
one or two teams will perform much better than expected, or get lucky, or some combination of the two.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Don't you dare bring logic into this.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
If he plays average defense with a .320 wOBA in Oak he is likely to be a league average player.
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Jan 15, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Possibly
So he’s 2 WAR instead of the 2.7 he’s been the past 3 years? And will he continue the offensive decline he’s been on?
Seems like a big overpay for league average.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Petco's really, really tough on hitters.
The difference between the Coliseum and Petco is greater than the differences between the two leagues, especially on batters. The DH is a nonfactor to him.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
I see a league average hitter and a plus defender at 3B. It’s not flashy, but that’s miles better than McPhoxez.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
I guess I just don't see 2.8 runs per 150 as "plus defender"
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Could it be that
you are reading just a BIT too much into the numbers?
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I dunno, I'm the one looking at ALL the numbers and not a small sample
Is that reading too much into it?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
How many times have you actually seen him play baseball?
If you are relying purely on the metrics and not on the Empirical data of the all seeing eye then yes, you are reading way too much into the numbers.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Tango's fan scouting report for 2009
here are all the 3rd basemen.
Kouzmanoff gets an overall score of 3.85 (out of 5), which ties with Andy LaRoche and puts him just behind Hannahan (3.90) and ahead of ARod (3.74). Broken down into components, he fairs worst in the speed and first few steps categories (2.8 and 3.3, respectively), but is right around 4 for instincts, hands/catching, and all three throwing categories.
Three errors over the course of a season
indicates pretty good defense or zero range.
Kind of awesome? Based on what?
Just looking for what I’m apparently not seeing. He’s about as average a hitter as it gets, strikes out far more than he walks and has marginal power. Unless his defense is out of this world good, and it doesn’t seem to be, he’s nothing special but a more solid bet to get out there on the field and be serviceable than what they’ve had there for a while since Chavez went down.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Agreed
You people are forgetting what’s been going on with this team the last couple of years. Kennedy. Hannahan. Bad Chavvy. Average is way above average for our 3B recent history.
And I’d put Kous in the above avg. category anyway.
I miss Eric Plunk
I'm not saying Kouzmanoff sucks ass or denying he's any more than basically average...
…nor that “basically average” right now is an upgrade over what’s been at 3B.
I’m just wondering what makes him “kind of awesome.”
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Here's why this is kind of awesome:
YR WAR
09: 1.1
08: 0.7
07: 2.6
06; 2.3
05: 4.3
04: 4.4
03: 4.1
We are now in possession of a 2.5-3.0 guy, that’s kind of awesome.
Oh, and here I figured you'd be talking about it in terms of Kouzmanoff himself...
…instead of what the A’s have lacked at the position, given that you said “Kouzmanoff is kind of awesome.”
Silly me.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
OT: Sad news
The Gnats have DFA’d Merkin Valdez. Damn – no more Merkin jokes over at McC.
Hey Al, just go away, baby.
I almost forgot to mention, too, and this doesn't seem premature
PLAYOFFS!!
(I got a multipack of these for Christmas)
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
defense
Kouz made 3 errors in 141 games last season. Kennedy made 3 errors in 1 game at 3rd last year.
by BlueMoon on Jan 15, 2010 4:41 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, Kennedy
was not, and is not, a 3B. He was merely better than anyone else the A’s could put out there. He did an excellent job at 2B when Ellis was out. We’ll miss his attitude and BA.
3 years till free agency
Kouzmanoff hits free agency after 2012. Arbitration eligible for the first time this offseason.
I still think Seattle's is better
Kouzmanoff is not a great defensive player. He’s a little above average, tops.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
He was a lot above average last year.
Not saying you are wrong, but he had a heck of a year with the glove in 2009.
The guy who created UZR says using 1 year of data is stupid
I’m looking at his entire major league defensive career.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
Again, not saying your method is wrong
but I’ve seen more than one place that said he was really good last year. I’m not just getting that from UZR. Your method is correct, I’m just making the point that the guy had a really good year, and it COULD be a real improvement.
Well, ANY metric = not reliable for one season
28-year-olds typically don’t make drastic defensive improvements (at a position they’ve played forever) either.
He may have had a good season. I’d still prefer to look at the overall body of work.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
The overall body of work says he's somewhat better than average.
Where’s the beef?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
My beef, mostly, is that I think Aaron Cunningham is going to be fucking awesome
And I was excited to see him in the A’s outfield.
I think Kouzmanoff is, at best, average. And his declining offensive numbers make me think he might not even be that. I just think this is a horrible overpay for a guy who isn’t going to be on the A’s the next time they’re contending for something important (because I think he’s traded or non-tendered after this season most likely, but after 2011 at the very latest).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
OK
but you have to be aware that most people do not think that Cunningham is going to be “fucking awesome.”
I mean, I can see how his 90th percentile outcome might be a Carlos Quentin type player, but it’s not clear to me that that’s better than Sogard’s 90th percentile outcome (which is probably something like Placido Polanco). I think he’s rather more likely to be useful than Sogard, but “useful” just doesn’t bring a ton of utility to the A’s outfield right now, which is full of useful players.
As for Kouzmanoff, I mean, the notion that he’ll get nontendered by a team which lacks acceptable alternatives at his position is risible. And you’ve done nothing to actually demonstrate any way in which Petco’s park adjustment overrates him.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I don't get it
The A’s, until today, did not have a viable third base starter. Period. Kouzmanoff is a decent fielder, has some pop in his bat, and could be the victim of Petco Park.
The A’s gave up a guy they didn’t like, and someone who was not going to make any impression in 2010 and most likely thereafter (given that Desme is on the horizon after Taylor), whatever his potential.
To me, this is a great trade. The team gives up trade bait and gets a starting third baseman.
People like to complain, even when Beane wins a deal
I honestly believed the media when they said Gio was in the deal. We are seriously THAT bad at 3B something needed to be done, overpaying for one of the 2 young available 3Bs was what I figured we’d do.
In the end we gave up a lefty mashing/LIDR platoon player and a potentially decent OFer (to which we already have arguably 3 already decent OFs and about 5 more potentially decent OFers). Cunningham “fucking awesome”??? Even if he did hit his ceiling of being Aaron Rowand at his peak for a year or two, thats still not worth 3 years of league average 3B. Theres about an equal chance Desme blows every name in this post out of the water. Jeez, even Buck has equally enough of a breakout chance as Cunningham. We arent losing anything, oh big deal am OFer, theres tons of those around and there’s next to no 3B options. This is a spectacular deal to cap off our offseason.
I'm enjoying the vast spread of opinions
on this trade. When we did Wallace for Taylor everyone was so homogenously pleased that it was boring.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
If anything Petco's park adjustment may underrate him.
His career tOPS+ is 82 at home and 116 on the road. That’s unusual.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
I love it how you insist that Kouzmanoff is in "offensive decline"
When his OPS+ went from 110 in 2007 to 100 in 2008 and 2009. That’s not decline, that’s consistent level of production. And on the other hand, you completely disregard his defensive improvement from -2.3 UZR/150 player in 2007 to +3.1 in 2008 and +10.7 in 2009 and insist that he’s an average defender.
Not a big fan of Kouz myself, but you are doing some histerical cherrypicking.
Cunningham had the chance
to be even “kinda awesome” and failed so badly Coco Crisp was deemed necessary. If he’s “kinda awesome” he can start for SD and Beane can always trade for him back.
Nah
I give the A’s infield about a +10, the outfield about a +25, and catcher about a +5.
+40 is pretty solid, but Seattle last year was +85 and they’ve actually improved their defense since last year. Even factoring in regression, I’d give the M’s a sizable edge.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Who's playing third in Seattle now, I can't see him, even close to Beltre
by theblackpearl on Jan 15, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
Figgins?
He’s probably slightly worse than Beltre, but not that much worse.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Ugh. Unless the prospect from the Padres is Simon Castro, I don't like this deal.
Even if the deal is Hairston/Cunningham for Kouz/mid level prospect, this trade sucks for the A’s. They’re giving up the two best players in the trade.
I just don’t get the Kouzmanoff love. He’s a decent defensive player, but he really can’t hit very well. Even if PetCo is depressing his numbers a little (his career .328 road OBP makes me want to cry), moving to the big boy league and Oakland isn’t going to help them. He strikes out a lot, doesn’t walk, and has just modest power. Blech.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:42 PM PST reply actions
that's how I feel, man.
I honestly think I would’ve rather rolled the dice with Cerberus McPhoxez. Isn’t there 162 games worth of third baseman somewhere amongst that trio?
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 15, 2010 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Mostly I just think Aaron Cunningham has All-Star potential
And given a full season, I think he’s the best OF the A’s have (had, and I’m not counting Carter or Taylor because I don’t think they’re quite ready). I certainly think he’s better than Kouzmanoff right now. Hairston is just as good as Kouzmanoff, probably, but I’m not terribly sad to see him go or anything.
I can’t decide what bugs me more: Giving up Cunningham or acquiring Kouzmanoff. That’s why I hope the prospect is really awesome.
Beane needs to stop trading with the Padres.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
ya I'm worried about Cunny becoming the next Ethier...
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
by DyeLongJustice on Jan 15, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Doesn't have the tools
Went to a lot of Rivercat games last year. The guy did not stand out. Carter stood out. Cardenas stood out. Wallace looked good.
Too ginger
see also – Dan. Jonson.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
What an appropriate avatar for that comment.
"Tarry not on the subject, danmerqury, for the heathen will surely be cleansed by the hellefire cast downe upon him by Bill James Moste High, praise his name."
by LongLiveLangerhans on Jan 15, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Cunningham does not have anything remotely close to touching all start potential
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Jan 15, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I believe you are eleventy billion percent wrong on this
I look at Cunningham’s numbers and see a guy who can hit for average, walk enough, hit for power (he’s a 20 HR guy, but a 35-40 doubles guy), and run well. I don’t really see what he’s bad at.
Conversely, I don’t really see what Kouzmanoff is especially good at doing.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
being a 3B
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Funny
I look at his numbers and don’t really see what he’s good at. He doesn’t have any top-level skill (and certainly not an AS-level skill)
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Only contact, gap power, plate patience, and speed
He’s not GREAT at any of those. But he’s pretty good at all of them.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
he doesn't have contact or plate patience, "gap power" is not that great, his speed is good, sure
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Yep
I’ll grant speed. An .850 AAA ops does not scream MLB all star to me.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
He's pretty consistently been an .850+ OPS guy at every level of the minors
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
Right.
That would be my point, yes.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
So... being a consistently really good hitter is a sign he's going to not be good in the majors?
I’m confused.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
Your "really good" bar is really low.
Citing grover:
Cunningham "hit the crap out of AAA" to an MLE of a 690 OPS.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I'll admit this method is hardly scientific
But IF he can do in the majors what he’s done every step of the way through the minors, his wOBA is ~.385 to .390 (I’m roughly guessing based on the individual stat lines).
I think he’ll do just as well in the majors as he has throughout his minor league career, and a wOBA that high is really good. I actually think he’ll be closer to .370, but that’s still really good.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
So you're saying you're better at projecting ML performance than
MLEs?
And CHONE / Marcel?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
You do know MLEs aren't projections of future performace, right?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
You do know they are attempts to translate past performance to the ML level, right?
Unless you think he’s going to get a lot better really fast, an .850 AAA OPS is an indication he won’t be much of a MLB hitter.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
How likely or not is it for a player to outperform his MLE?
Alternatively, are there equivalents for other levels that could be used to predict a player’s propensity to perform (alliteration FTW) better than his equivalents?
Aaron Rowand had an .833 AAA OPS
And Cunningham has a much better eye than Rowand. I actually think Cunningham will be a better eye/worse defense version of Rowand (who probably would’ve been better earlier if not for nearly killing himself in a dirtbike accident).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
Oh goody
Now we’re moving on to cherry-picked examples.
I’m sure I can find players with .900 AAA OPS who sucked in MLB, and players with .700 AAA OPS who were awesome.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Actually, I wasn't cherry picking it
I heard that player comp made a bunch of times by different people when the Haren trade was made.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
sounds like Matt Murton with a little speed
Not a ringing endorsement.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 15, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
"Contact" was a bad word choice
because I meant he hits for average, which he does. His BB rate is average, maybe a bit above.
Nothing he does is great. It’s just all pretty good. He doesn’t have any real holes in his game. He’s one of those under-the-radar guys who, you’re probably right in that he would not be an All-Star. But he’ll be one of those guys who is consistently 3 WARish, especially if his defense lives up to the scouting reports and not his somewhat nightmarish time in Oakland.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
I agree, I like Cunningham
but I have to admit, I saw him as more of a necessity when I still feared that Ryan Sweeney sucked. He’s done enough that I’m no longer terribly worried about that. At this point I think Sweeney is the better player of the two (albeit not by a huge margin) and thus am OK with moving Cunningham.
Their skills are not precisely identical, but their niche (good-not-great corner OF) is the same.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
This is true.
The real problem, I think, is that now the A’s are absolutely banking on Carter and Taylor being great. Or they’re hoping Buck rediscovers his talent (a possibility I’m hoping for, too, but mostly because I hope Coco Crisp is nothing more than a 4th OF).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
think, not hope, right?
or are you actively rooting against coco?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
If Carter and Taylor are not at least good,
it’s pretty likely that the A’s are fucked anyway. As the Japanese would say, sometimes it’s just necessary to jump off the balcony at Kiyomizu Temple.
That being said, they are by no means the only hope, as the team can also hope to get somewhere between decent and great production out of (in increasing order of likelihood) Sulentic, Peterson, Desme, Brown and Doolittle.
The team was literally in a position where it could not fit outfielders into the uppermost levels of the system. I think that’s partly the result of some poor earlier moves, but that amounts to crying over spilt milk at this point. It’s not productive.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
kiyomizu-dera
hey i’ve been there
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
No
McPherson: Bad back, no play.
Chavez: Bad back, no play.
Fox: Bad glove, you don’t want to see him play
Figure it this way: Unless there’s injury, Hairston wouldn’t get enough at bats to get into any kind of groove because Cust/FoxorChavez would be the full-time DH. So he was going to leave. Cunningham was at the very bottom of the outfield depth chart. So he was going to leave. The A’s need to consolidate anyway for next seasons Rule 5 draft.
And they needed a third baseman who can play every day, is competent, and has some power. And has three years to go.
I really don’t care, talent-wise, if the A’s traded down slightly on this. They gave away spare parts and got what they needed.
Nice work, Billy.
I don't consider the best outfielder they currently have a spare part
I guess that’s why I hate this trade and hope Bud Selig says it can’t happen.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, but obviously the A's do
He wasn’t going to get the playing time, period.
I don't think he's in the conversation because I don't think he's major league ready
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
you are the only one that does
are you going to argue with every post that says Beane won this and Cunningham was expendible? Its annoying to read.
Wait a sec ...
don’t you guys always tell me strikeouts aren’t bad? I’m confused.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
They aren't worse than other outs in themselves
And, more importantly, with good hitters they’re often the byproduct of power/plate patience. But when a guy walks 27 times in a year and strikes out more than 100, that means he has shit plate patience and can’t make contact.
It’s not the strikeouts that are bad. It’s his horrible plate patience.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
I know - I'm just bein' an ass
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
But I'm sure others don't realize it, so I'm glad you brought it up
On the surface, it does look strange.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think players all of a sudden learn patience overnight
And I don’t think the A’s actively teach it, either. (In fact, players have said they don’t)
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions
Right we have to have patience with them
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It hasn't been for the fans.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
If Kouzamoff
had ALL the tools it would have taken a hell of a lot more than a couple extra OF’ers to get him; it WOULD have necessitated Gio to finish the deal. And THAT would have been untenable.
I can’t understand not being ecstatic about this deal. Value for value, filled a HUGE gaping hole at 3B, the SD prospect is apparently pretty excellent in his own right…
When one considers those who manned 3B last year …. a MANNIKAN would be an acceptable replacement; at least the ball might take a friendly bounce! Kouz is gonna be pretty cool, for 3 years. In three years,you will not be worried about Cunningham or Hairston demostrating “bad trade”.
Great trade. Maybe for both teams, but definitely for the A’s.
Kouz is definitely better than Hairston and Cunningham, and the A's need a 3bman...
(his career .328 road OBP makes me want to cry)
haha. what does Hairston’s .291 career road obp make you want to do?
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
You haven't been paying attention
I think Hairston is just a platoon guy, really.
But I think Cunningham is a 3+ WAR player waiting to happen. And by “waiting to happen” I mean “if a team actually gives him at bats.” He’s certainly going to be a significantly better hitter than Kouzmanoff.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
I was paying attention when you said Hairston was better than Kouz
Cunningham is not a 3 WAR player. he’ll do that maybe once if he’s lucky.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
isn't it a bit too early in cunningham's MLB career to say that?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
No
It’s hard to see him doing better than an .800 ops (too many Ks, not enough BBs for a obp much above average, good but far from great power), and an .800 ops wouldn’t get him to 3 war.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Of course, he only walks twice as much as Kouzmanoff (I know, comparing minor league to major league numbers)
But, no, he doesn’t have enough walks. He does K a lot, but he also has a perfectly acceptable walk rate. The guy has an .875 career OPS in the minors, and he’s never been old for his leagues or anything.
I think you’re letting 100 odd major league PA spread over two seasons sway you far too much here.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not being swayed by that much at all
.875 career ops in the minors for a corner of=not that good. Pretty good hitters at a corner of spot grow on trees.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
And Cunningham is/will be a better hitter, but Kouz has way more value on defense.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Except Kouz isn't really a special defensive player or anything
But we can all believe that myth, I guess.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
Average 3B > Average COF
Is that your myth?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Average is average. 2 WAR is 2 WAR, no matter what position you get it from.
Or are you talking defense only?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
From mikeA
Kouz has way more value on defense.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Only if you think his 2009 UZR number was representative of his actual defensive value
I don’t. I think he’s average. And I think Cunningham is an above average OF. And I think Cunningham is a better hitter (now and in the future).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions
Or, you know, his 2008 UZR. Or his career UZR
All of those are way more valuable than an average COF
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Yes. An average 3B's defense is more valuable than an average COF's defense
I never once argued against that.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
You think Kouz is below average (despite his career line)?
Or do you think Cunningham is enough above average (despite his SSS career line)?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I think Kouz is right about average defensively, maybe a tick above. I think his 2.8/150 is right
I think Cunningham is better than he’s shown in the majors, and that’s just because some scouting reports around the time of the Haren trade thought he might be able to stick in center. Now, I don’t think he’s a CF. But if he was considered good enough to possibly stick there just 2 years ago, I think he’s gotta be a plus corner guy. Not Ryan Sweeney good. Maybe Matt Holliday-esque? I haven’t seen enough Cunningham defense to make a real educated comparison, but the scouting reports were always positive.
In all, Kouzmanoff will probably have a bit more defensive value than Cunningham. It all comes down to the bat, and I like Cunningham’s much more.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
That might be going overboard
Most of his positive UZR this season, and indeed in his career, is due to his very positive error runs statistic. He’s only infinitesimally above average in range and double play runs (not that DPR are very important for 3Bmen)
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
You're right
Not making errors is good. Of course, fielding percentage can also mean “not enough range to get to difficult plays” or “friendly scorekeepers”
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Repeat after me: 3 errors in 141 games.
Nice myth to hope gets repeated.
Fielding percentage really doesn't mean much.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
I do value defense.
Just not with a measurement as irrelevant as fielding percentage. Try UZR. Or TotalZone. or Dewan. There’s more to fielding than just error rate.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
None of those stats make the error rate irrelevant
The average MLB 3B is, well, average. I’ve said it elsewhere; If K had ALL the tools, he would have cost more than a couple extra OF’ers. Not to knock the stat-heads, but if you’re picking sides real quick, you’re gonna take the guy who 1) doesn’t get hurt, and 2) doesn’t make any errors.
The numbers of plays he doesn’t make because of a purported lack of range is minimal; besides which, if my info is correct, K is above average there anyway.
And still only made 3 errors in 141 games.
That's not really true, though
The fewer balls you get to, the fewer you can boot or throw away. And the differences in range amongst players at a given position is not minimal.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
People much more intimately acquainted with the situation
think he was expendable. Billy Beane for one, for example.
"Tonto think Billy Beane need to make team full of squirrels and bears."
by OptimistPrime on Jan 15, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
I think Kouz is a 1.5 WAR player getting bonus points for sucking in San Diego when he really just mostly sucks
Hairston is probably about the same. I don’t have any love for him, which is what I meant with the paying attention comment. I’m glad he’s gone. If the deal was Hairston for Kouzmanoff straight up, I’d be fine with it.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
man this is hard to have to read
I think Cunningham is a 3+ WAR player waiting to happen. And by "waiting to happen" I mean "if a team actually gives him at bats." He’s certainly going to be a significantly better hitter than Kouzmanoff.
What I dont get here is that how Cunningham’s mythical 3.0 WAR replacing Sweeney’s 5.0 or Davis 4.0 or Crisp’s 2.5, is better than Kouzmanoffs 2.7 WAR replacing scrapheap2010’s 1.1.
by PL78 on Jan 16, 2010 2:41 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I like this deal...
I don’t love it but it’s a decent deal. Clears up the cluster in the outfield and we get someone to play 3B everyday. Kouzmanoff isn’t great but he’s not that bad either.
The prospect coming back:
I would rather it was not a 40-man roster guy. Someone recently drafted with upside, preferably – someone we won’t have to give Rule 5 protection to for a while.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 15, 2010 4:46 PM PST reply actions
Well, this is why it was a good move to get rid of Hairston
and probably Cunningham as well. A’s may have been running out of time to get any value from those two.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 15, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
They could've, you know, PLAYED CUNNINGHAM
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
They tried...
…and he sucked. Bad bat, and weak in the field when he was given the chance. I’m sure he’ll improve (some) down the road, but the A’s had OF’s to spare, and Cunningham clearly wasn’t going to be in the top-4 with the A’s this year regardless.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
Wow, I really missed all that playing time he got
Wait… wait…. no, I didn’t. He had 57 sporadic plate appearances. That is not playing a guy.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
133 AB's over two years...
…and numbers in AAA last year that were much worse than his 2008 AAA numbers. Factor in his sports hernia, and the number of A’s OF’s ahead of him or equal in current ability, and he was very unlikely to be a factor in 2010. He would have been hard-pressed to stay on the 40-man roster at all in 2011 unless he pushed past several other players.
Maybe he would have been better with more playing time, but in the time he had in Oakland he sucked. Other OF’s totally outplayed him, and he was getting passed up by guys in AAA too.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
Don't the injuries that won't have lasting effects (the concussion, too) actually help my argument?
It’s not like he has a nagging problem that will bother him forever.
I guess I just don’t see too many current A’s outfielders with equal or current ability. In fact, I see one (Sweeney).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
We'll have to see if the hernia has a lasting effect....
…but Cunningham can’t play centerfield, and he clearly wasn’t going to beat out Crisp, Davis or Sweeney (your starting outfielders regardless of who plays where, barring injury). The best he could do was be the 4th outfielder, and the numbers to date say Cunningham is behind Buck in terms of ML-readiness, and Patterson in terms of versatility (and the fact that Patterson’s out of options). And if Cunningham is still just a AAAA player, then you’d have to say he’s behind Taylor at least, and Carter too if they move him to the outfield. That left Cunningham too far down the depth chart to be much more than an insurance policy.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
this
I don’t know why some are fretting over a guy that currently has no place and could easily be lapped by younger prospects who have no injury history
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 15, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
Rickie Weeks is going to be a CFer too
With a MUCH higher ceiling than Cunningham.
Because of your insane postings about Cunningham I almost want to say he sucks, but i wont because its hyperbole out of anger.
Why are the Brewers going to move Weeks to CF when they
just traded for Carlos Gomez and they have no one else to play 2B?
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:25 AM PST up reply actions
Man, you really need to step back and take a deep breath
because you keep saying these things which, while not excessively important, are just clearly not correct.
I can’t put an exact figure on it with a short google search, but a player who’s had one concussion is at seriously increased risk of suffering another one. He’s also at greater risk of some kind of cumulative effect.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
i bet the risk of additional concussions in the near future that have some sort of lasting/cumulative effect is much lower
than his chances of not making the 40 man roster in 2011.
He would have been hard-pressed to stay on the 40-man roster at all in 2011 unless he pushed past several other players.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
There were far too many negatives in this sentence for me to make head or tail
of which side of this argument you’re on.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
i'm just not sure why you're calling out thejd on the concussion thing but not andy on the 40 man roster thing.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
If I had to attack the factual underpinnings every time someone posted some kind of speculation about the A's roster,
I’d never leave this site.
It’s not obviously wrong in the way that “concussions aren’t a recurring injury” is.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Reading the sentence as a whole
My point was that Cunningham would have had to perform better than (“push past”) several players from the group of Crisp, Davis, Sweeney, Buck, Patterson, Taylor, and Doolittle/Carter, while fending off a few fast-rising guys like Brown if he was to remain in the A’s plans past 2010. Cunningham regressed in 2009, and the odds of him making the roster in 2010 (except as an injury/short-term fill-in) seemed fairly remote. If he continued to be the 6th or 7th-best OF in the A’s organization in 2011, when presumably Taylor and Carter will be on the 25-man roster, leaving Cunningham to start his 4th year in AAA, then I think Cunningham would probably be gone (if only to free up space for someone with more upside).
As an aside, 2010 would be Cunningham’s 6th year in the minors. Doesn’t minor league free agency normally kick in after six years? Or is that just for guys not on the 40-man roster?
by andyinfremont on Jan 16, 2010 12:39 AM PST up reply actions
The latter (also, it's 7 years, not 6)
It’s possible to control a player for longer than 7 years if you do it right. In fact, while this would never actually happen, it is mathematically possible for a team to sign a Latin American player at age 16, finally put him on the 40-man roster at age 23, get four option years, bring him up to the majors finally at age 27, and then control him for six years in the majors, finally releasing him to free agency for the first time at age 33— 17 seasons after he first inked his contract.
That’s very rare (probably unheard of), but players spending 12 or 13 years in a system is not rare at all.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Wouldn't you have to break the kid's leg somewhere in their?
To get the 4th option, I mean..
Or are you keeping the kid out of the States until he’s 19?
The monster at the end of this blog.
22, actually
but yes.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I'm counting on a baseball player not taking all that many hits to the head
In fact, most players don’t take any hits to the head. If this were football, I’d agree. But a concussion just isn’t an injury that should happen again. I’m certainly not making light of the damage one can do, but I don’t know if one concussion can permanently affect a guy’s ability to hit a ball.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
What are you saying?
You don’t need to be a stat-head to recognize Sweeney is a far better player, Davis hit right at 300, and AC is a far cry from Coco. We don’t need to get into AAA or AA to see AC as anything but “won’t play in Oakland.”
I wouldn't say the A's really gave him much of a chance to do anything
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Doesn't really matter WHY he
didn’t make it in Oakland. Nobody (?) suggested he wasn’t a quality player. He & Hairston combined were/are good enough to get a pretty darned good 3B guy and a quality prospect. Not a matter of being “fair.” It’s a matter of the A’s having about 10 high-quality options in the OF, and ZERO quality options at 3B. That has changed now; thank Aaron for that. And Beane.
I saw him play 4 or 5 times
he is a poor mans Ryan Sweeney.
We already have one of those, so bye bye Cunnigham
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I'd want a guy like
Keyvius Sampson, Adys Portillo, or Drew Cumberland. A C+ guy who is miles away but has upside.
(The prospect won’t be as good as Cunningham, because 3 years of Kouz is more valuable than 2 years of Hairston).
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 15, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Actually I think 2 years of Hairston and tons of years of Cunningham mean more to the Padres
and Kous means more to the A’s. It is all in what each team needs.
Giving up Cunningham could mean that the minor leaguer is a good one but far away.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Had to clear the OF jam
Clearly A’s are plan to have a small fast guy in CF (Davis, Crisp for 2010). The A’s traded Wallace for Taylor because they finally get that HRs and power win games. So that leaves one OF spot for Sweeney, Carter, Dolittle, Cust and Buck to fight over the next couple years.
Hairston is not a better hitter than Kouz. Cunningham was out-performed by Matt Carson in Sacramento. Don’t see the big loss. Those guys are ok, but replaceable.
He's a bullpen arm. Not a big fan.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
A's tried to draft him
Also, James Darnell, Logan Forsythe and Cory Luebke seem A’s type players
I'm still not a big fan.
It might BE him, but that would just make this trade worse. He’d be no better than the 4th best lefty reliever they have.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
not a chance he's involved....;
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!!!!!
WTF BILLY!?!??!?! Did you not learn your lesson with the Andre Ethier trade!!! Im sooooo very angry right now. I would have much rather given up Buck than Cunningham.
Fantastic BILLY!! You just let another possible cornerstone outfielder of the future go to the NL West for a guy that most likely will be average for a season or two with the A’s!
ANGER ANGER ANGER ANGER!!!!! FLASHES OF RED!!!!
F*** S*** A**
STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!!
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
STUPID!!!
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
this was an incredible sequence of self-replies.
Just…I’m speechless.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 15, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
Whew.......
Im much less angry now……
I just took a couple mins and sprinted around the block to blow off some steam. Im still angry, but its at a much more manageable level now.
I think I need to go to the gym though, to finish the job.
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
I'm impressed
I just shifted in my seat slightly for a better typing angle.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
"Impressed? I can tell"
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
OK........
Now that I’ve truly calmed down, thank you prop 215 and SB 420, I can look at this deal a bit more openly. My anger surrounds the fact that I really liked/had huge hopes for Cunnningham.
HOWEVER…….
The addition of Taylor and Crisp, along with all the talent coming in a couple years in Brown and Desme (and possibly Weeks if he now plays CF), along with the GAPING hole at third, I totally understand the move. Kouzmablah fills a huge hole and possibly pushes a +2B back to his true position in Cardenas.
I get it…….
But you know I will say “I told ya so”, and cite these comments if Cunningham pulls an Ethier and becomes dope.
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
I would have much rather given up Buck than Cunningham.
and how do you know that beane doesn’t feel the same way?
“i would have much rather given up danny putnam than carlos gonzalez”
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
The valuation in your example.....
doesnt make sense. Buck is way closer in value to cunningham than Putnam to CarGon
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
i like the guy but buck hasn't done anything in two years besides repeatedly getting injured
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Dont take this the wrong way bro....
Im not angry with you, Im just angry in general at the sound of this news.
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
OR HELL.....
Give up Buc, Hairston + a relief pitcher, or SP prospect in A or AA.
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
Buck's value is basically zero...
…so swapping Cunningham for Buck almost certainly was not an option.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
'
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 15, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Congratulations!!! Your the winner!!!
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
This one is so my new favorite.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
uhhh… ok….
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
These are all awesome.....
I I thank the both of you for the comic relief…….
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 16, 2010 1:24 AM PST up reply actions
Yea sure ptbl.....
didn’t go out of his way to try and put someone down or anything. I just imagined that I guess.
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 16, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Dude, I just wanted to use my picture
I’m sorry if you were offended. I didn’t mean it to be anything more than a joke.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
ty
accepted and reciprocated
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 16, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
That's amazing
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
LOL I just wanted to use the picture...been saving it
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
....!
KOUUUUUUUZ
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
someone here on AN called it a while back
actually said Hairston would return to SD in exchange for Kouzmanoff…now who was it?
Very intrigued by the prospect coming back.
My new guess is that it’s Everett Williams or Keyvius Sampson. Athleticism reigns, and the pattern of recent A’s acquisitions continues.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jan 15, 2010 5:08 PM PST reply actions
I actually think this is a fairly even trade
Sure, we’re losing the high upside here, but we’ve just acquired a major league ready/proven 3b who will be average/semi-cheap for the next few years. He’s not outstanding, but still young enough to possibly improve/have some fluke years. Cunningham may turn out to be awesome, but we don’t know that yet, and his upside is what it takes to get this deal done.
"I am happy because I do not have unrealistic expectations"- Karma Ura...or an A's fan.
Cunningham's profile has always been,
“pretty good at a lot of things, but not a high upside player because he isn’t great at anything.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Was it Cunningham that was the minor league hitter of the year?
Thank you Al Davis for Michael Crabtree!!!!!
ANGER!!!!! ANGER!!!!! ANGER!!!!
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
BBBBBWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
"I mean, come on, man. I'm a vet. Don't talk to me like that. If they do, I'll just smile." Nnamdi Asomugha
by s0sNe@kYbUtY? on Jan 15, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
Blake Crosby says hello.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
This opens up multiple possibilties
If Kouzmanoff is healthy as he has been in previous seasons, this influences Chavezand Fox. A’s do not have a Plan B if Rajai regresses. Unless they are willing to give Buck another chance. Taylor isn’t ready yet. The A’s are in the never ending search for right handed hitters. They traded away 2 and one was just DFA’d today, Eric Byrnes.
I think the backup plan for Rajai regression is Crisp in center
And perhaps Buck in left.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
Great news about Byrnes!
if you are a giants fan
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 15, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
This trade does give us above average defense at (possibly) every position on the field.
I think every player but Pennington, who has yet compile enough innings to make a valid assessment, figures to be above average. Crisp, Davis and Sweeney are almost certainly, as well as Suzuki, Ellis and Kouzmanoff. Barton should be above average as well.
Couple that with one of the best bullpens in baseball and an above average starting rotation and you have a sleeper. Or maybe just some biased optimism on my part.
by Opus Youngblood on Jan 15, 2010 5:18 PM PST reply actions
For sure I like it a lot!
I would say Cust is a gold glove DH ROFL just kiddin
Thank you Al Davis for Michael Crabtree!!!!!
I am pretty happy with this trade
Solid bat and glove at third. I am stoked.
"Tonto think Billy Beane need to make team full of squirrels and bears."
For sure he is a decent bat who should hit around 20 hr or so
Thank you Al Davis for Michael Crabtree!!!!!
had a feeling about this
Once the padres talked about losing payroll and Kouz name came up I thought Beane radar went off. Cunningham is a 4th outfielder type. His defense was below par but will give a decent average and a little pop. Hairston days were numbered in Oakland with the upcoming outfielders. Buck moves into the 4th outfielder spot.
We got three years of him before free agency.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Kouzmanoff
I hear he’s big in Germany. I like the move.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
For some reason this made me laugh
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
Me, too,
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks, I'm a big fan of shotgun humor
If you shoot enough pellets something is bound to find the mark. Unfortunately for my girlfriend that’s also my philosophy on urination.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
If your urine comes out as pellets you've got worse problems.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Cunningham
He would have to hit like hell to be super valuable because he’s a left fielder. I think my best comparable is Corey Hart. Given the glut the A’s have, it’s a fine if not spectacular trade.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jan 15, 2010 5:38 PM PST via mobile reply actions
25 man roster as of today - 13 position players
might look like this on opening day:
starters: Suzuki ©; Barton (1B); Ellis (2B); Pennington (ss); Kouzmanoff (3B); Davis (lf); Crisp (cf); Sweeneu (rf)
DH: Cust
bench: Powell ©; Miles (ss); Fox (DH/1B/3B); Patterson (of)
That’s 13…no room for Chavez…
there's no limit on numbers for the 60 day DL, apparently
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
exactly!
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Chavez would be taking the spot
of the fourth outfielder.
I think either Patterson or another outfielder will be on the roster.
So who else does Chavvy displace?
I’m guessing nobody…
so patterson sticks
is Fox eligible to be optioned? To me he is the odd man out since as of right now Chavez can play 3B a few times a aweek.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
this is an interesting question
I’m assuming that Kouzmanoff will be the starting 3Bman. If so he is likely to be starting nearly every game, he won’t be splitting the week with Chavez.
Recent history has shown
Chavez’ inability to remain on the roster come May.
Maybe he should beging the transformation to the other side of the diamond at this juncture.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
By "the other side of the diamond"
do you mean “the earth beneath it”?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
But there's one thing you can't lose...
and it’s that feel…
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
Okay.
I personally believe that hormone therapy and SRS surgery after the end of puberty, in a society that is slow to accept transgender and third-sex individuals, is a much harder and much more potentially painful choice than to express alternative gender preferences through dress, behavior, and lifestyle choices, rather than through body modification and/or surgery.
However, in fully gender dysphoric pre- and early teens, I believe that hormone therapy and SRS surgery may be an easier and much more potentially rewarding choice in the long run.
I could post a lot of reasons why, but then I would be turning my little joke here into a potential argument, and I really really dislike arguing with people.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see if as "alternative gender preferences"
so much as just wanting to break free of narrow roles and stereotypes.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Huh?
Is this post in the wrong part of the thread?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Keep up, Paul.
He was asked to “talk about transitions”.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Maybe I'm being stupid (maybe?)
but I really like this trade. The A’s get a legit third baseman who stays healthy and can give you 20 homers and 80 RBI while playing solid defense. It seems to me this is something the A’s have needed for several years.
Sirbed, you are not stupid
We had one glaring hole in our lineup going into the season, one huge question mark, and that was third base. We are stocked at the OF position, Hairston was expendable, and Billy translated junk and a prospect for a guy with a solid glove and a decent stick who will consistently show up at third base, as long as we keep Larry Davis away from him.
"Tonto think Billy Beane need to make team full of squirrels and bears."
by OptimistPrime on Jan 15, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
Yep.
It’s nice to be able to sit around and pore over stats and wait and pray that even as many as half these guys ever pan out, it’s quite another to actually assemble a decent baseball team from the parts that are available to work with. And given the team’s very real budget constraints, that’s going to mean trades… and with trades you have to give up something good to get something good (and/or fill holes).
What are we at the park for except to win? I'd trip my mother. I'd help her up, brusher her off, tell her I'm sorry. But mother don't make it to third. ~Leo Durocher
and im(nsh)o
we really didn’t give up anything of real worth here.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
He sounds like a Viking
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
showoff
or rather – shøwøff.
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
Here's Sickels' take on Sogard.
20) Eric Sogard, 2B, Grade C+: Gets on base, not punchless, defense is so-so but I like the bat enough to keep give him this grade
20th rated prospect in SD’s system. Hmm.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/12/7/1190680/san-diego-padres-top-20-prospects
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Wow what a horrendous trade this is
I like Sogard’s eye, but he’s no better than the third-best 2B prospect in the system (assuming Cardenas doesn’t stay at third now).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
He's certainly not exciting
Probably in our top 30, but we certainly could have hoped for better.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Right
The Sickels C+ puts him in the same cluster as our #12-#22 guys, and maybe some after that. I don’t know where in that group to put him, so I went conservative with the top-30.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
How terrible that we filled a need and traded away two meh guys....
Assuming Weeks or Cardenas pan out at 2nd, Sogard probably just projects as a utility infielder at the ML level (or moves to the outfield if his bat and defense allow for it), but that has value too. Or maybe he’s a trade piece for another deal down the road.
Hairston would have been a valuable 4th OF/occasional DH, but he’s pretty easily replaced by Patterson or Buck. And Cunningham wasn’t likely to be a factor this year. It seems to me we did pretty well.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
"Utility infielders" generally aren't mediocre 2Bs in the minors
This is exactly why Eric Patterson can’t be a true utility guy.
Cunningham only “wasn’t going to be a factor” if the A’s chose to play worse players. That’s not a good reason for trading him.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions
Nonsense
Crisp, Davis, Sweeney and Buck are all better than Cunningham right now, offensively and defensively. Patterson and Cunningham are more or less a wash offensively right now, but Patterson is more versatile (no, Patterson’s not a good defender anywhere, but then Cunningham hasn’t been a very good defender either).
As for the minors, Taylor is much better than Cunningham, and probably only stays in AAA to preserve his service time. And if Doolittle or Carter get converted to the outfield, they pass Cunningham too. And there are some AA outfielders pushing their way to AAA. I just don’t see that there was much room for Cunningham.
I agree that this deal leaves us a bit thin if we have more than one OF injury. On the other hand, Cunningham leaving opens up a spot on the 40 man roster, so that may not be an issue for long.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
I think anybody who takes any of these guys (except Sweeney) over Cunningham right now is nuts
I fully expect Carter and Taylor to be better, but I was referring to guys at the major league level.
You’re severely underrated Cunningham’s ability. Calling him and Patterson a wash offensively makes me want to puke. Cunningham absolutely will have a significantly better career than Patterson, who is NOT a major leaguer.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
That's a lot of rhetoric
For an opinion with no statistical backup.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
At the risk of sounding exessively nerdy
Sogard’s Eye sounds like something from Dungeons and Dragons
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
by bobnothing on Jan 16, 2010 2:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Even more if you say "The Eye of Sogard"
You cast The Eye of Sogard. +10 damage, +5 shield, +2 2B, +1 HR, +3 RBI
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I was wondering if it'd be someone I've seen play or not
And I have, a couple times. Don’t remember anything particular about him one way or the other, though he did make the Texas League All-Star team last year (only an eight team league, so each team had multiple players represented since they only played division against division).
A few pics:
Standing between Donaldson, Horton and Brown:
Last of the Ninth - Photography
WTF is he holding onto in that picture
second from bottom?
If it's "something"
it is short. Still…Chippendales Baseball Lineup there?
All I can say is
It’s about freaking time!!!
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
This is the kind of deal that makes Beane look
like a flipping genius. Reminds me of the Rhodes/Redman for Kendall deal.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
plus one
"Tonto think Billy Beane need to make team full of squirrels and bears."
by OptimistPrime on Jan 15, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions
Sogard...according to scouting report
Sogard gets the ultimate compliment from scouts by being called “a real baseball player.” He can flat-out hit and has suprising pop. He’s got average speed, but can steal a base. He makes the plays at second base with limited range. While each individual tool may not receive a high grade, Sogard is the type who always plays above his tools
"Tonto think Billy Beane need to make team full of squirrels and bears."
I hate those fake baseball players
I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.
I like fake baseball players.
Steve Dalkowski, Jr. is my favorite.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
That actually sounds a lot like Cunningham's scouting report.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sogard is a perfect A's player
Looks like they got their 2b if cardenas moves to 3b and weeks durability issues remain
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/draft_report/y2007/index.jsp?mc=sogard
3 yrs
Hairston was 2 yrs. Cunningham was blocked the day they made they Taylor trade.
Eric Chavez is right at this moment having a nightmare
straight out of Spalding Gray’s Swimming to Cambodia, except in this case he is being chased around by a giant Kouz.
I like this trade and I like Sogard too; maybe that’s a function of how little I liked Hairston. Cunningham kinda blew it with me when he kicked the ball around the RF corner one game multiple times, when me and my buddies were sitting right at the right field foul pole and taunting him rather mercilessly one evening last season.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
"being chased around by a giant Kouz"
Sigmund will see you now, Mr. Nobody.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Sigmund and me and Wilhelm Reich say "Hi!"
And they wanted me to let you know that there was nothing unintentional about my Spalding Gray reference ;)
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jan 15, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
But of course.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Kouz had much better patience in the minors, though his walk count never was too terribly high.
That was only three years ago and I seem to remember a certain A’s third baseman who seemed to come into his own after 3 or 4 years in the Bigs, too.
2000 – 62BB, 94SO
2001 – 41BB, 99SO
2002 – 65BB, 119SO
2003 – 62BB, 89SO
2004 – [b]95BB, 99SO[/b]
2006 – [b]84BB, 100SO[/b]
Give Kouz a little bit of time. Who knows, maybe he’ll figure things out and find the same reasonably patient stroke that helped him to his minor league line of .332/.395/.556/.951
By the way: Chavey had a line of .301/.357/.527/.884 in the minors.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
Ignore the shitty formatting please.
Blame Crosby if you have to.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
I blame Ed Crosby.
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Wait, Kouz had a minor leage OPS of .951???
/thejd tweaking
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Yep.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=kouzma001kev
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
Chavez was also 20 years old the last time he played in the minors (rehab stints excluded)
Kouzmanoff was 24. Huge difference there.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Chavez was way younger than Kouz when he became a big-leaguer
Like, 3 or 4 years younger. That makes a huge difference.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Oh I agree
Hence the “/thejd tweaking”
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Err... reading comprehension fail.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
There's still no reason to believe that a dude with a .951 OPS in the minors can't do it in the majors, too.
There’s still time to develop. I know he’s 28 but there’s still time.
Not much at all. But there is.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
But I definitely see where you two are coming from.
I agree with you, too. We’ll just have to see where it goes, right?
Chavey :(
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
I can already hear the boos
KOOOOOOOOOOOOZ KOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ KOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
when Kouz and Duke are in the same game
it will sound like a Warriors game where they allow 150 points to the other team LOLOLOLOL
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jan 15, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
Nice
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
I am the random Padres fan...
That proposed this trade. Really, there is no reason for anger on either side. It’s a good deal for both teams. You are getting a sure-fielding out convertor in Kouz. He’s durable, clutch and a dependable player. The guy just set the fielding percentage record for criminys sake! Doesn’t that take the sting of his OBA for you?! The guy just never throws the ball away. You had a glaring black hole in 3rd and were taking a huge risk on Hairston in CF. You, by far, have the surer bet in this deal. I’m pissed about not getting Gio. You guys are not adequetely mitigating our risk in the deal.
the kouzer is a sure out maker. considering your options, and given the fact he’s expendable to us, its a great deal for both sides. BTW, love the idea we’d give up Simon Castro..that was rich, or Darnell…it is to laugh. Or Sampson..puleeze..you got a good 3 bagger, just be happy.
Thanks...
I’d rather hear that from someone who has seen him play as opposed to someone carrying an armload of defensive sabermetrics.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
So he'll be the WS MVP when we beat you guys in 2012?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 15, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
touche
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 15, 2010 7:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Thanks bro
all the negativity from stat heads can be a bummer. Big Time.
"the kouzer is a sure out maker."
yes, we have seen his OBP
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
I didn't EXPECT Castro
I just don’t think this is an even trade unless the A’s got a prospect that good in return.
You’re going to love Aaron Cunningham.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
Is that sincere or sarcasm?
My sarcasm detector is in the shop so i can’t tell.
He seems like a good upside OF we need just in case Hairston gets injured again or flames. His AAA numbers look decent. I don’t put a lot of stock in his limited ML PA’s. If your brining a guy up you have to plug him in there for 4 months minimum and let him relax and figure it out. I was surprised to get a player of his calibre in the deal. Losing Sogard hurts a little. I think his bat will make it to Bigs but there may be a position change in his future. You can deal with limited range on a 3B but it hurts too much on a 2B.
You haven't been reading this thread very closely, have you?
Thejd44 is madly in love with Aaron Cunningham. He’s almost painfully sincere.
Cunningham is the kind of prospect that elicits a wide range of responses. If your outfield is a bit less crowded than Oakland’s looked to be, we may actually find out whether Cunningham can be something pretty impressive or just another AAAA guy.
It really depends on Kouz's glove
If he can keep putting up UZR/150s around 10 (which he only has one of so far), I love this trade.
His bat has declined 3 years in a row, which sucks, but he still has pop.
P.s….his BB/K revolts me.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
really like the deal a lot for you guys
sogard is a nice asset. Hairston didn’t have a role, and same with Cunningham. Makes sense for the Pads as well, as they needed to try Headley at 3rd.
Welcome, Prince Vladimir!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Who gets the last roster spot?
If we lost two off the 40 man roster, and added one, are we on the verge of signing a free agent? Can anyone shed any light on this? Does Sogard get that last spot?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~Rogers Hornsby
I wouldn't give Sogard the last spot. He wasn't on the Padres 40-man roster.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 15, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
Sogard rule 5 eligible next yr
Which is a large group of A’s prospects
... yay... ?
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
We are they delaying the inevitable.
Just put Chavez on the 60 day DL on a constant cycle till October. It opens up a free 40 man spot for the Tejada signing
I know this is partially in jest
But there is no DL in the off-season.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
I was hoping the Kouzmanoff arrival would at least put a stop to the calls for Tejada.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:29 AM PST up reply actions
Kouzmanoff = Brosius?
Rookie Kouz made 22 errors then second year down to11, finally only 3 last year. 2010 he will make -2 errors.
Seems that Brosius
is his ceiling then if that is true.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
E. Chavez....How you felling Chavy?
We actually might have found a replacement for you…..better start steam rolling a bit faster pal
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
Look at his numbers in 95 and 96
wheres the awful, 97 yes, but not his first two full years.
For Kenny Rogers who became Terrence Long who became terrible.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
SO......
The A’s get an above average 3B (not great) but good, for 3 more years………and trade 2 OFs that werent going to be major contributors in 2010 anyway……….I like this!!!
by Colorado Booze Hounds on Jan 15, 2010 6:35 PM PST reply actions
What sting?
Fans nay not never know the truth, but Gallagher fell out of favor. I’m assuming his no worry attitude last spring maybe didnt please the A’s. He also hasnt shown the mid 90’s velocity that he had previously. Webb, Italiano were blocked here
yeah
I didn’t feel the sting either.
In fact I didn’t even see the bees.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I didn't either, last year.
I saw the Aces and the Grizzlies a couple times each, and more than enough of the Isotopes.
Never saw the Bees, though.
"Sniff some krazy glue, and start a religion!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jan 16, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
Not quite
we got 3 +95 arms for Hairston, Now we got Hairston back.
A’s get Kouz, Sogard
Pads get Gallegher, Webb, Italiano, Hairston, Cunningham. 2.5 million. and get to play Headley everyday. Its still slighty in our favor.
MPH =/= good pitcher
Merkin Valdez throws 95…you should go snag him from the gnats’ DFA wire.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 15, 2010 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
With a <40 million dollar payroll..you have to take risks
I’ll take it with guys who have some stuff and upside.
Honestly, Gallegher got hammered in winter ball, Not sure about Italiano but Webb…Criminy..He throws a live 98 tailing fastball. I like his slider too. He just needs to learn how to pitch with his stuff and he could be lethal.
If Hairston flames out its no big deal. Kouz was expendalbe for a team with a payroll like ours. We only kept him to trade him. Headley will do >80% what Kouzer puts up so the trade was a no brainer.
Webb was terrible and never deserved a 40 man spot from A's
They have no shortage of relievers. Like i said, they have a clearer path with SD, but not necessarily with A’s
If by terrible...
you mean has not performed up to his stuff then yes. But he has the potential to be a dominant setup/closer. The stuff is there…this is what happens when stat monkeys meet hopefull physical scouts.
Been there, done that
Meet Henry Rodriguez. Add in Bailey, Wuertz,Devine, Ziegler, Devine, Meloan. With Demel, Storey right behind them. Where wouldve Webb been? Agree to disagree. Both teams filled needs and lessen areas of depth.
Fair enough
i’m here saying it’s win-win. I still think so. Trades are about mitigating risk versus upside. i think this one’s even now..but who knows later?
Webb only threw low 90s when we had him
Either your gun is juiced or he magically fixed something when he moved to SD.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions
Even if its 95
there’s signifigant tailing action on it. I don’t understand how guys could hit it last season.
Interesting
The A’s drafted him out of high school (at a time when they hardly took any high schoolers) based on his physical projection. He wasn’t much at the time, but they figured his gangly frame had a lot of room to fill out and gain mph, and if they were right they could get a good pitcher for the low low price of a 4th round pick.
If he’s at 98 (and if he can learn the ancillary things you need to succeed whether you have velocity or not), they may have been right, but may be in the position of not having waited quiiiiite long enough on what they knew from the get-go would be a long-range project.
I agree....
this is one of those deals where both teams win really, Pads acquire 5 guys (from the 2 trades) and maybe 2 do well down the road or at least contribute at the MLB level??
A’s fill a hole with a solid guy………
by Colorado Booze Hounds on Jan 15, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
as to whether or not those arms are attached to bodies...
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 16, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Of course I liked Scott Hairston trade and
thought Rajai Davis should be release and I thought Chavey was going to be healthy last year and I thought Gio was a bust and I thought Braden should be a reliever. I dont have a great track record, LMAO
Dont ignore the Sogard factor
He might be blocked just as much as Cardenas, Weeks. Yet he was considered likely the choice as padres 2b of the future.
We didn't really have a 2B of the future.
But you got the best we had at the position, which aint necessarily saying much.
Most teams will have a C+ as their "x of the future" at at least one position...
keeping in mind that the average team only has about 7-8 B prospects at all, and half of those are pitchers.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
If we're defining "x of the future"
as “best prospect of a given position in a particular farm system”, maybe, but I was thinking of the admittedly more subjective definition wherein an “x of the future” is considered to be the presumptive ML x at some point in the foreseeable future.
Sogard is C+
I don’t see him coming back and biting us on the ass. Although, he’s a decent player to include in the deal. 2nd basemen flameouts are too common for me to care about.
Barton no sure bet
If Barton doesn’t cut it Chavez could end up at 1b since his shoulder is questionable. Too many good players would be a problem. Let’s see if Chavez makes it back.
Trading Cunningham does open a spot for Carter in LF at Sacramento
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
That's what I was thinking
Either Doolittle or Carter need to play in the outfield, right? Taylor in LF. Matt Carson off the bench (if he sticks). Who’s the likely AAA CF? There was a post on likely ML/MiL starters for the A’s and I can’t find it now.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
At this point AAA looks like Brown in CF, Taylor in one corner spot, and Doolittle and Carter at 1st and the other spot
Carson is the fourth OF.
Even with this trade, Peterson and Sulentic still look like they’re heading for a repeat of AA. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it goes to show just how badly clogged the A’s high-minors outfield was.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Plus Desme
Given his age and his performance in the AFL, the A’s may want to rush him a bit. He’ll at least start in AA.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I keep having these odd thoughts about Desme possibly being jumped all the way to the majors
If ever there was a candidate for a three-level promotion, he would be it… either he’s for real or he isn’t, he’s old for a prospect, and the team could really use his skills.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Interesting
But that would pretty much mean giving him a starting job, right? I mean, you don’t have a guy jump to the majors that quickly if he’s just going to sit on the bench.
Yep
Of course, you have to remember that I’m a noted skeptic on the offensive capabilities of both Rajai Davis and Coco Crisp. I think the team offense with both of those guys in the lineup will soon be seen to be so intolerably bad that changes will have to be made. At that point, the worse hitter will be relegated to the bench and the A’s will be able to call up any outfielder to replace him.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Wouldn't they then call up Taylor and move Sweeney to CF?
Not that Desme starting in CF on opening day wouldn’t be awesome.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:32 AM PST up reply actions
That would be more likely, yes
but given that the two are the same age, if Desme seems to be playing better at the time, there’s no particular reason why they’d have to call up Taylor.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I don't agree with this.
He might be old, but rushing him is still a bad idea. After 2008, Chris Carter put up monster numbers but had a K% of over 30%. Desme did the same last year. I’d put him on the same track Carter was.
by Opus Youngblood on Jan 16, 2010 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
It's not "the same track" if a guy is 2 years older at the same level.
I mean, suppose Desme knocks around Midland. What does that tell you? He’s old enough that his performance would be almost meaningless. And I don’t think he’s suddenly about to fix his contact rates (which are and always have been horrible). Might as well see if he can succeed in the majors in spite of them.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
His performance at Midland would be meaningful if he sucked.
Then we know for sure he’s not the answer, without losing any major league games because of him. But I amused and intrigued by your idea.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:34 AM PST up reply actions
I am surprised by this...
given your previous thoughts on Desme. Are you then coming around to the idea that he just might be a special player?
I fully understand he may flame out due to the contact rates, but as so many people say, you win with stars, and I’ll take a guy with a small chance at being a star over a guy with a good chance at being average.
I’m for leaving him down even if he does well. I am for leaving most everyone down as long as possible. I’d like all the best prospects up at the same time and I want to maximize their production for the 6 years we have them rather than waste the early years like we did on Cahill. Heck imagine if we didn’t bring up Anderson til mid-season. He wasn’t good at the start of the year anyways, and we would have him under control for another year… Hated that decision. But I digress… Desme will be an interesting guy to watch this year.
To answer your first paragraph:
No.
I think he’s probably a mirage who will rapidly disappear from popular consciousness.
That being said, might as well find out sooner rather than later.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I think one of them stays up
They’ll need both a DH AND a backup OF. Rotating DH, rotating days off, Carter and Doolittle can rotate to 1B, and Peterson can as well. I’d say Sulentic stays in AA, and Peterson starts in AAA.
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
I think that was Carter's spot with or without Cunningham still being around
Last of the Ninth - Photography
lol, exactly
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Ideally, yes, but there would be the temptation to play Carter at 1B and DH as long as a
better LF and good prospect like Cunningham were available.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:35 AM PST up reply actions
Who is 4th OF? Back-up SS?
Buck, Taylor, Crisp? A’s pretty flexible roster with Cust as fill-in OF. Fox at 1b, 3b, of. Chavez 3b, 1b, dh. Only postion not triple-covered is SS. At this point a lot of faith put in Pennington’s 1/3 season.
Aaron Miles is a veteran.
I don’t care if they get someone older than Aaron Miles. I want someone better.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:36 AM PST up reply actions
Crisp is starting
Buck, Patterson, Fox and Miles probably fight for the 4th OF and/or utility slots. I have no problem sticking with Pennington at SS, with Petit in AAA if needed. I’m not sure the A’s need another utility guy to be honest, although the lack of a true backup SS probably helps Patterson the most.
by andyinfremont on Jan 15, 2010 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
I assume those four are the bench once Chavez is out of the picture.
I assume either Fox or Buck goes to AAA if Chavez actually remains standing until the regular season.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:38 AM PST up reply actions
miles unless the a's sign hairston jr
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Thats another reason...
I wanted scott, It gives us an edge on signing Jerry Hairston Jr.. Maybe he wants to play with his brother. You never know. I get the feeling it would matter to Scott.
It might matter to Scott, but Jerry's the FA, and he'll likely take the most money.
Also Scott might get traded again…the next time someone offers three live arms.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:39 AM PST up reply actions
Moving Towards D
One of the things that I felt when we still had Wallace was that we were stretching a lot of players defensively.
Wallace had to stretch at 3rd; Carter at 1st; Dooliittle – the best defensive first baseman moved to the outfield, Cardenas at second, Weeks to the outfield.
There was a domino effect moving people off their best defensive position.
Moving Wallace allows us to play Kouz at 3rd, Cardenas can compete for 3rd without rushing him. Or compete at 2nd with Weeks. Carter can find his best fit. There are a lot of defensive pluses on the recent series of moves.
I like this trade, BUT
Now I am really confused about the makeup of the DH/backup IF situation. So we have:
McPherson – Might not have made the team anyways, but most certainly won’t now
Fox – Projected to be a good bat, but injuries. Will wear a glove and stand at 3B, but after that we’re rolling the dice
Chavez – Obvious,. Question marks abound, but could DH.
Cust – 4th OF/DH. Just signed a contract – isn’t going anywhere.
Patterson – crappy arm, but versatile enough to keep around to play 2B or 5th OF
The way I see it, we can only have 3 of those 5. If McPherson goes, that’s one, but how can we have Fox AND Chavez AND Cust? Screw Cunningham — I’m worried about cutting a guy in ST who everyone knows can hit in Fox for nothing.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Fox apparently has an option remaining
so, worst case scenario, he ends up in Sacramento.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Okay then
Best case scenario. Fox goes down to AAA to learn 3b, when chavy invariably goes down Fox gets the call and becomes your backup 3b.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Maybe McFoxson will platoon at AAA instead of in Oakland,
until Chavez breaks once and for all.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
but didn't we just trade for a guy who will
completely replace him?
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I assume Cardenas plays 3B in Sacramento.
They don’t need Fox to learn 3B now that Kouzmanoff’s on the scene.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:40 AM PST up reply actions
You don't want Crisp leading off
try:
Davis
Barton
Kouzmanoff
Cust
Sweeney
Suzuki
Ellis
Crisp
Pennington
That’s how I’d do it, given those 9.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OBP doesn't warrant, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jan 15, 2010 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
well I certainly dont want Barton batting 2nd
or in the lineup at all for that matter.
Its gotta be Cust or Zooks imo.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Barton's OBP last year, in a less than inspiring season overall,
was .372.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Really?
CHONE likes him to the tune of a .366 OBP. Second on the team only to Cust.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Take your communist "walks" elsewhere, Khrushchev
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
I still like Cust at #2.
Davis
Cust
Sweeney
Cust
Kouzmanoff
Suzuki
Ellis
Crisp
Pennington
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
2 and 4?
Good idea.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
where is 9custs...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
you rang?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jan 16, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
Heh. Oops.
Go ahead and slide Barton into one of those, I guess.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
TWSS
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jan 16, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Believe it or not
Cust is good with men on base… So I don’t mind batting him down in the order. Although if batting with a man on 1st reduces the infield shift he sees it might mean more hits. I like Sweeney 2nd because he hits a lot of ground balls where the 1B won’t be if he is holding on Davis.
My favorite part about this lineup, outside of cloning Cust, is Crisp nowhere near the top of the order.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
I don't like the middle of that lineup
Davis
Barton
Cust
Suzuki
Sweeney
Kouzmanoff
Ellis
Crisp
Pennington
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
I don't like the middle of your lineup either
Maybe we should try some different players.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not enough Custs.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Much better. Thank you.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
My lineups...
Against RHP:
Davis
Sweeney
Barton
Kouz
Cust
Suzuki
Ellis
Crisp
Pennington
Against LHP:
Davis
Crisp
Barton
Kouz
Fox
Suzuki
Ellis
Sweeney
Pennington
So Fox has to make the team. That's bad news for Travis Buck. And Eric Chavez.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:43 AM PST up reply actions
hilarious
if Barton is hitting 3rd I will die
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jan 16, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
for the sake of offense
Davis LF
Crisp CF
Fox 1B
Chavez DH
Kouzmanoff 3B
Cust RF
Suzuki C
Ellis 2B
Pennington SS
And just bench Sweeney and Barton?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Cust 6th?
He deserves to be 2nd or 4th, as he’s the best hitter we have.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Also he's the worst RF we have
Except maybe Powell or Eveland.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
lol @ chavez batting 4th in the "offense" lineup
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
this lineup ought to really
put those 300 people in the seats every night LOLOLOLOL
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jan 16, 2010 1:30 AM PST up reply actions
come on -- Chavez not coming back
Chavez is not coming back — that was a dream idea. And Barton is probably not going to be good enough to justify 1b.
Just put Sweeney in for Chavez. Move Cust to DH. Very realistic.
WTF you had chavez batting fourth just SIX MINUTES AGO
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Chavez broke during those six minutes.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Face it. Barton hits like a back-up catcher.
I say give Barton back the tools of ignorance. He hits like a back-up catcher so let him play back-up catcher. Beane can’t be right on all trades. He’s a regular Larry Haney — without the glove.
CHONE has him at a .349 wOBA.
Bill James and Marcel have him at .338. Still well above average.
Backup catcher he ain’t.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
He is the emergency catcher.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:45 AM PST up reply actions
lol
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Flagged for just being a really blatant lie
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
He's still young though
and his defense is decent for someone who has only recently learned the position. I’m gonna give him another half season at least to prove his muster…and if he cant cut the mustard then its Carter time.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
God, I love that picture.
Fantastic flick, too.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Agreed, great movie and great picture.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
No Country for Old Men.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Yup
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
I thought so but
didn’t want to demonstrate my lack of stills recognition.
The movie ranks in my Top Three of Worst Movies of All Time.
Right behind (ahead?) of “Sean of the Dead” and just ahead (behind?) of “Happening.” I’m saving the #1 spot for an as-yet un-named fiasco. (Having never seen “Gigli” with J’Lo, I cannot rank that bomb.)
I'll let the Academy take issue with No Country's place on your list.
But Shaun of the Dead? That was hilarious.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
You and my daughter
both loved Shaun of the Dead. “Oh, Dad, it’s soooooo funny.” So OK I said, I’ll watch it with you. After an hour, I’m waiting for the first funny line.
After the second hour, I was still waiting.
She lost untold browny points for that one. The Academy lost untold — uncountable really — point for NCFOM. That show was beyond redemption. I’ve seen several Cohn Bros. works; you’ll either love them or hate them. I loved “Fargo” but most folks didn’t.
Battlefield Earth
"HARK! BUT LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S A COST CONTROLLED COCO CRISP! DOES MY USE OF ALLITERATION HYPNOTIZE YOU?" (PL78)
by CaliforniaJag on Jan 16, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
I'll need to rent and view
in order to give that movie a shot….never seen it.
It was pretty much by the book as far as what Cormac McCarthy wrote
What bugged you about it?
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I DID read the book first "The Road"
Run, do not walk, away.
Waiting waiting waiting for something that makes sense….you will wait until …. some other movie.
please go away
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
This actually wouldn't surprise me.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
Now that Cunningham's out of the way
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:46 AM PST up reply actions
This is also true
But not all that likely unless Chavez or Fox show an ability to play 1B regularly.
I think the Blue Moon is getting to your head..
Barton was a bit short of an .800 ops last season. He improved his OPS by over 100 pts in one season.
"The A's get some action but they do not score..." -Glen Kuiper
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Anyone else find the fact that this trade happened immediately after this morning's front-page post amusing?
Anyway, bottom line, this is trading strength for weakness. Depth is good, especially when you’re deploying Coco Crisp and Travis Buck as potential outfield starters, but actually having competent starters at every position is better.
On the face of it, it seems like a loss, because Hairston and Cunningham’s combined projected WAR was quite a bit in excess of Kouzmanoff’s (I’m getting about 15 versus 7.5). But the problem is that actually obtaining that WAR is very difficult and requires large quantities of at-bats to realize— at-bats that the A’s likely won’t have available unless the team is a train wreck (in which case, who cares?). Meanwhile there were a bunch of ABs sitting basically about to go to waste over at third base. It’s counterfactual so we’ll never know, but I doubt that those guys would have amassed 7.5 WAR in an Oakland uniform.
Sometimes it makes sense to trade an underperforming gold mine for some actual ingots. That’s a pretty bad analogy, actually. But I’m lazy and I’m rolling with it.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Oh, and this isn't even mentioning Sogard
who’s at least intriguing, in a “white Alberto Callaspo” sort of way. And also plays the infield, which is nice.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
He should be good for about 9 WAR over 6 years according to CHONE
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:47 AM PST up reply actions
I guess that's really the way this has to be looked at
Clearly the A’s were overstocked on outfielders and even if Kouzmanoff only gives them average offense and above average defense he’s about the best they could do with people who were potentially available. If Cunningham gets the chance to play every day and makes the most of it, well, it probably wasn’t going to happen here anyway.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
wasn't that the whole idea/hope with
Jack “the Hack” Hannahan? average offense with above average defense? How’d that work out again?
I don't think Hannahan ever really had 20+ home run potential
Hannahan’s never really even been close to average offense except for a SSS in 2007. In 2008 and 2009 he was abysmal.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
The problem with Hannahan is that he had well below average offense.
Like, 10-15 runs below average. Kouzmanoff should be right around average.
Falling from grace, cause I've been away too long
Leaving you behind with my lonesome song
Now I'm lost in oblivion.
Hannahan was throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping it stuck
which, to some extent, it did.
The only player the A’s gave up to land him was a guy who was going to be a minor league FA at the end of the season anyway. Getting any value at all out of that trade was a major win.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Turned Hannahan into Souza
Who they liked enough to give a 40 man spot and probably just as valued just as Webb, Gray, Italiano
by MagicMike23 on Jan 15, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
there's nothing lazy
about using the word counterfactual in a post of any kind
[[wild applause]]
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jan 16, 2010 1:33 AM PST up reply actions
NEW THREAD OPEN
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You just want us to look at YOUR thread!
I’m onto your game, Nico.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jan 15, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
so much over analysis
Kouz at 3B, Ellis at 2B, Sweeney, Rajai, CoCo in OF, Suzuki at C, Pennington (weak link?) at SS, Barton at 1B, Cust at DH is a good, not great lineup. Especially compared to what we had last year. So many good bats and gloves in the wings – you know all the names. I am feeling very good about this trade and the lineup we’ll field. Put Duke into the rotation with our youngsters and we should be the proverbial “competitive”. Billy did well; better than I thought he would to fill out a competitive lineup.
Baja been here
It's not a "good" lineup, offensively, though
It’s below average. Maybe you mean offense/defense combined, in which case I’d say it’s “average.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But there is upside
I tend to look at what could happen. In this case CoCo and Rajai could be a huge menace on the basepaths, Kouz could hit a bit more than in Petco, Pennington could grow into a true offensive SS, Barton could rebound, Taylor could come in as the #4 with impact…there is hope and I have not felt this way for awhile (years). With the pitching as our base strength – both pen and starters – we should all feel pretty good; again – nice gloves and bats in the wings. Yes, I am a die hard fan who sees more of what could be than what should be.
Baja been here
What we had last year
prior to the AS Break really sucked.
Kouzmanoff is clearly the savior for the 2010 A's.
Or perhaps the albatross that drags us all to hell.
Or maybe he’s a serviceable third baseman for a team that had none.
We get a serviceable third baseman, which we did not have, for a backup outfielder, of which we had eight.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
Correction. Two backup outfielders.
It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 16, 2010 7:51 AM PST up reply actions
Hell, give em three.
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 16, 2010 8:06 AM PST up reply actions
donkey rides!?
Sock puppets have never been able to successfully attack castles. -NM
by Leopold Bloom on Jan 17, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
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