Daric Barton and Ryan Sweeney.

Regarding Sweeney...

It seems to me that people are unduly harsh regarding him because he has that big homerun hitting body and so often slaps a single.

by IM4Oakgal on Sep 27, 2009 1:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't like him

because he is prettier than me

by Future Ed on Sep 27, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 27, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe that is why Buck gets such a hard time from Geren and Beane

by DeJay on Sep 27, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buck is not prettier than Beane.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Sep 28, 2009 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beane's a DILF...

actually, a DSEWLTF, ‘cause I’m not really into him in that way…

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Sep 28, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I look at it thusly........

Sweeney is an electric fielder in RF, has pretty good plate discipline/OBP and he did have double digit HR power in the minors. He costs us nothing. He is pretty exciting if you look at him that way. People get on Sweeney because your eyes tell you he should have more pop then he does, but if he was 5’10 he would be regarded as a sex machine.

Barton is a James Loney-esque 1B, and that kind of 1B is VERY unfashionable. His fielding (UZR) so far hasn’t been world beating (and it wasn’t in ’08 either), and he has hit 12 HRs this year. Having Carter really makes Barton expendable, and what Billy does with Daric could be one of the more interesting things about our off-season.

Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-

by Daniel777 on Sep 27, 2009 4:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Just so we're absoultely clear...

… I am in firm in my stance that I already regard Ryan Sweeney a sex machine.

by Joey C. on Sep 28, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carter and Barton...

I don´t think Carter presence makes Barton expendable… Carter and Wallace will play no matter what and most important no matter where… Barton will have to fight with Cardenas, Weeks, Doolitle, Cunnigham and Desme for playing time…

by Olijerez77 on Sep 27, 2009 7:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Personally, I think both are terrific players

I am very impressed with the improvement of Barton as a first baseman. The knock on him was that he was only suitable to DH when he was drafted but he has improved dramatically. For all the talk on this site about all the stars the A’s have in AAA the fact is that next year Sweeney will be in right and Barton will be at first. I think more power will be seen from them over the next couple of years, both are young, both are talented.

by Laoren on Sep 27, 2009 7:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't hate Ryan Sweeney

but he’s a corner outfielder who needs to hit .280 to be an average hitter. He’s a useful player, but not indispensable.

by Josh Deletchi on Sep 27, 2009 7:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

sweeney/barton

sweeney 3.8 WAR in 09 considers him a top 20 mlb OF. Obviously we know he really isnt, but as the swisher deal “throw in” its showing progress at least. It would be nice if A’s had the same patience w/ buck/cunningham as they have with sweeney

not a huge barton fan, since it would be nice if he hits great outside of any month other than september.If doolittle was healthy i would assume barton’s chance would be much less at the moment. Plus they called up everidge before barton even got his chance the last month plus. Both sweeney/barton are in their age 24 seasons so you would hope they continue to improve.

by Asfan4ever723 on Sep 27, 2009 8:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

They didn't call up Everidge before Barton

Barton started 5 out of 7 games after being called up on July 20th, hurt himself doing a split at 1st, and when he went on the DL they called up Everidge to replace him.

Sweeney’s WAR improvement I think is all about his fielding and his playing time — his basic hitting line this season is very similar to last year, with a little less than .030 of SLG added on. It’s not clear to me that he’s taking big steps forward as a hitter.

As for Barton’s hitting, he’s clearly a very streaky hitter — IIRC, he started off 2007 in a slump and then absolutely tattooed the ball for a few months, including his Sept call-up with the A’s. He started this season off really badly, then caught fire in May and hasn’t slowed down much, except for his time on the DL.

Sweeney’s improvement is largely speculative — he’s never shown a whole lot of power, except for one partial season in the minors. Barton’s numbers right now are in line with his minor-league track record, so there’s good reason to conclude that his numbers with the A’s this year represent his true talent level and a repeatable level of production — though his .900+ OPS in September is very likely a good deal above “normal” for him.

Incidentally, both Barton and Sweeney have struggled a lot at the Coliseum this year:

Barton in 2009:
Home: .200/.326/.333 in 96 PAs
Road: .383./479/.57 in 71 PAs

Sweeney in 2009:
Home: .257/.319/.336 in 248 PAs
Road: .329/.357/.475 in 283 PAs

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Sep 27, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well said

by Future Ed on Sep 27, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

EVERYBODY

struggles at the Coliseum. It is a death pit for any hitter.

I'm the genius who said Chris Carter will slug .650 his rookie season.

by JamesCaprio on Sep 27, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those are still extreme H/R splits

Barton’s road SLG should read “.557”. So his home OPS is .659, road OPS is 1.046 — a difference of nearly .400 points.

Sweeney OPSs are .655 and .852. .200 points is still huge.

And, in fact, the team as a whole is hitting better at home (.739 to .724). A’s pitchers have done better at home (.711 to .768), but not even remotely like 200 or 400 (!) points better.

SSS applies in both cases, especially Barton, but it’s still intersting.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Sep 27, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

depends what you think is interesting.... I don't think it's interesting.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Sep 27, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So we're even then

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Sep 27, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that Sweeney's hitting lines have been similar for two years is actually encouraging.

Ryan Sweeney, average hitter, is better than I thought he’d be and makes him an above average player as either an average defensive CF or a plus-plus defensive RF.

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan Sweeney doesn't get much love

because, like, others have said, he’s a corner outfielder who really doesn’t generate much power, while not having an awesome OBP to compensate. To be fair, he’s raised his average by 10 points and his slugging by 30 this year, while maintaining the same OBP. All in all, his offense is a hair above league-average, which is definitely useful, more so if he plays center at some point. His defense has been stunning, to say the least, and UZR likes enough to be the best RF in the game this season. Including his defense, he’s worth a surprisingly tremendous amount, but as we all know, defensive statistics are fussy, and I fully expect a heavy regression next year.

Basically, he’s a good roleplayer at this point, but I doubt he becomes something great.

Please remedy my confusion
and thrust me back to the day.
The silence of your seclusion
brings night into all you say.

by danmerqury on Sep 27, 2009 9:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

But his defensive stats were much worse last year,

and he was still basically average overall. He’s more than a role-player (unless by role-player you mean average starter), and he’s above average if you just stop in the middle of his two defensive seasons.

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe role player was the wrong term.

Yeah, I meant more in the line of average-to-solid, but not a star.

Please remedy my confusion
and thrust me back to the day.
The silence of your seclusion
brings night into all you say.

by danmerqury on Sep 27, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just wondering..

If he struggles a la Buck in 2008, will he be cast aside as Buck has been? 2007 is seeming like such a long time ago now.

"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."

by VORP is too nerdy on Sep 27, 2009 9:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Buck was good for 2 months

and has SUCKED for the rest of the time.

He has to earn something. He’s not forcing the issue in AAA.

by ohmangoAs on Sep 28, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by sf drift king on Sep 29, 2009 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think one reason for wanting to see less of Sweeney this year

is that the A’s pretty much know what he can do. Another 20 ABs for him this year won’t make a difference either way in his evaluation – why not use the opportunity to gain more mlb data on Paterson and Buck? Obviously, this would have made even more sense had they worked them in more starting a month ago, but still.

I, personally, don’t see much in Paterson, but then, what do I know? Almost nothing. If the organization thinks they need more mlb ABs to look at him, now is the time to give them to him.

by bobnothing on Sep 27, 2009 9:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

By 2012 no way I want Rajai in CF, switch Weeks to CF and put Cardenas at 2B.

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 27, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I love how you can predict the future

So if Raj OPS’s 850 and steals 100 bags and is a top 5 MVP vote getting, “in no way” you want him….cool story Hansel.

by PL78 on Sep 27, 2009 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love how rude you are.

Wait, no I don’t.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Sep 27, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

i love how negative and dick-ish and pompus people are being

towards our players that are breaking out this year…..no wait no i dont.

by PL78 on Sep 28, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it really negative to think that they might regress and/or won't be nearly as valuable as they are this year?

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Sep 28, 2009 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

its one thing to think it

another to seemingly be rooting for it.

by PL78 on Sep 28, 2009 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure noone is rooting for it, or seemingly rooting for it.

I’ve said on multiple occasion, I think Ryan Sweeney is no good for the future. He’s proving me wrong as of now, and I love that.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Sep 28, 2009 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I kinda think that talking about someone regressing

should at least be a mild taboo,

because you might put the jinx on them.

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Sep 28, 2009 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think people here are trying to think the way a GM thinks

which includes anticipating how players will play next year and beyond — and that necessarily means asking, “Will this guy stay about the same, get better, or get worse?”

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Sep 28, 2009 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

You’re not a martyr. Get over it.

It’s one thing to have a stat bent/non stat bent. It’s another thing to be a jerk to folks who bring up legitimate concerns with the viability of Davis’s play.

No one is rooting for the A’s the lose or Rajai Davis to suck. They’re just afraid that it’s going to happen and are discussing how to address it. I mean, the point of a site like this one is to debate and understand things not just be a rah-rah marketing outlet for the A’s. IF you want relentless positivity then you’re probably better off going to mlb.com.

But you’re not, you’ve made some good points here and in other threads, definitely things to think about. Don’t lower yourself to trolling because you disagree with someone.

by eastbayexpat on Sep 28, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

"trolling"

you HAVE to be shitting me.

I want nothing more than the A’s to win. Anyone who doesnt believe in the team or the players that play well on it can GTFO. That’s what Im seeing in these anti-“trade Raj” posts. Big deal you looked at data on fangraphs on a player who’s never played a full season before, chill out dudes. Lets see what happens when a player gets 600 PAs in a year first, then you have a big enough sample scale to work with.

For the record, I love advanced stats, I just dont think they are entirely relevant to a player who’s not an established everyday player at the big league level yet.

by PL78 on Sep 29, 2009 2:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This made me laugh

I want nothing more than the A’s to win. Anyone who doesnt believe in the team or the players that play well on it can GTFO.

So questioning the ability of the A’s to compete in 2010 isn’t believing in the team? Raising questions about Rajai Davis’s playing ability is not believing in the team? Thinking that we should conserve our precious prospects in AAA so that they can fully ready to play on a truly competitive team in 2011, that’s not believing?

So I guess your definition of supporting the team is believing we should go for it every year. Personally, I think that’s ludicrous. We are not the Yankees, we don’t have the resources. We have to pick and choose our battles and I believe our battle is in 2011 when we have Carter, Cahill, Wallace, and Cardenas fully ready. I think that rushing them next year will result in a year hovering around .500, not a playoff berth, and will slow their development to the point where it substantially lowers our ability to compete in 2011. We saw a year much like the one you’re envisioning in 2009, where we thought we could rush our pitching prospects, pick up a bat and make a run for the playoffs. Instead, we postponed playoff competitiveness for a year because we traded away a CF prospect that’s turning into a super star in Colorado.

As for Rajai Davis, you repeatedly claim numbers like .800 OPS and 70 SBs are within the realm of possibility (indeed a probability). What I see is a player who nowhere along his major league career has managed that line (even pro-rated) nor has he has shown that sort of potential in the minors. What I see is a player with an unsustainably high BABIP, who turns into a maybe 700 OPS hitter when it goes back to his BABIP career averages. What I see is a 29 year old center fielder that never really did well until this year, knowing that if someone doesn’t permanently break the majors by the age of 26, the success rates are vanishingly small. What I see is someone who almost certainly won’t be part of an A’s success story in 2013, because the 30+ years are rough ones even for the best of baseball players.

Like most here, I hope I’m wrong. But I don’t think I am and I can back up my claims.

Forgive my accusation of trolling, it was an overstatement. But you make rude comments to folks who you disagree with (Case in point, the beginning of this long chain of comments), that it wasn’t a completely unwarranted claim.

by eastbayexpat on Sep 29, 2009 5:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well said, but I think

the claim that trading away Carlos Gonzalez has “postponed playoff competitiveness for a year” is an exaggeration.

It was a setback, but a small one. If we’re not playoff competitive in 2010 it’s not going to be just for lack of Carlos Gonzalez.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Sep 29, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

On further reflection

You’re probably right, I was thinking more that Mazzaro and Cahill would be ready to pitch at a major league level more quickly with an additional year spent in AAA. But even if they were, the holes in the lineup are still there.

Argument withdrawn.

by eastbayexpat on Sep 29, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would you like

to link to any of the list of 206 incidents of rooting for failure that you have in your hand today?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Sep 28, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/9/27/1056834/the-rajai-davis-trade-market

that stupid notion that cahill belongs in AAA in 2010 is nyet smart too. great move putting the 4th best SP we have in the minors after a strong finish to the year. you had a point a couple months ago but he actually figured it out and is now our best option. playing a brett tomko-type over him is committing to fail.

by PL78 on Sep 29, 2009 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see a whole lot of good-faith discussion about what's best for the team

Still waiting for those instances of someone desiring the team to fail.

You, of course, will not find those here, because this is an A’s fan blog. Maybe you could go troll Halos Heaven for a while and find someone who once posted here? Good luck with that.

“Disagreeing with you” is not the same thing as “wanting the A’s to lose.”

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Sep 29, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!

by LoneStranger on Sep 29, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find myself using the Rec function more and more nowadays.

I won't heal, given time.
I won't try to change your mind.
I won't feel better in the cold light of day.
But I wouldn't stop you if you wanted to stay.

by danmerqury on Sep 29, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok PL.....

The only thing I’m going to say to that is the ‘cool story, Hansel’ quote doesn’t even work well in this situation…..

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 27, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

why not again?

a) zoolander is awesome.

b) saying you dont want rajai under ANY circumstances, even if he were to continue his current level of play all throughout 2010, is so absurd it deserves to be mocked.

by PL78 on Sep 29, 2009 2:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because "cool story, Hansel" is not meant to mock an absurd statement.

It is meant to be a sarcastic response to a boring statement or one that has no point. But I agree with point A. Zoolander is awesome. However, I was not as offended by your statement as this whole argument came off to be, I don’t really care what you think. I’ll say it again, I under NO circumstances want Rajai to be our CF in 2012. I’m not rooting against him, I’m rooting FOR Weeks. It seems to me that you are rooting against Weeks BTW. So your argument goes both ways. If by 2012 Weeks cant play CF, and needs to play 2B, that means that Cardenas or him failed, I dont want that, do you? By 2012 Davis is going to be around 33 years old, which is past most players prime, and getting older is going to do nothing for his most valuable asset, his speed.

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 29, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

cool story, Hansel.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Sep 29, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ha-ha

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 29, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

somebody had to do it.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Sep 29, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I understand. I set myself up perfectly

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 29, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's just like your opinion, man

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man.

Please remedy my confusion
and thrust me back to the day.
The silence of your seclusion
brings night into all you say.

by danmerqury on Sep 27, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you guys are on my lev

….seriously. danmerqury & elston gunn….you dudes = serious dudes.

by PL78 on Sep 28, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My take on the lack of love for each:

Sweeney: So much of his perceived value going forward is tied to the belief he will start hitting for more power, but his track record just doesn’t support this “belief.” I think everyone will shower him with love if he can be a corner OFer who hits for some power. But a corner OFer who doesn’t is only great if he hits over .300, which is hard to sustain.

Barton: He is heating up in the month where you “shouldn’t fall in love,” and already has a track record of shining in September only to disappoint the following April and May. This good stretch is a bit longer than the Sept, 2007 callup (it goes back to August), but I think many are wary of putting too much hope into September success.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 27, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

That is an incredibly narrow definition of a good corner OF.

Sweeney’s been about an average hitter for two seasons in a row now, and has put up UZR numbers that more than triple the positional adjustment for corner outfielders two years in a row in RF. He already is a good corner OF, even though he doesn’t hit for power or a lot of average. If he starts hitting 20 HR a year, he’s an absolute star.

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

(not that I think he'll ever hit 20 HR, except maybe in a career year)

I just think the claim that Sweeney needs to become a better hitter to be good enough for RF is clearly false. It seems like people forget that defense counts just as much at RF or 1B or whatever as it does in CF. We understand intuitively that a SS can be a well below average hitter if he plays good defense, but why can’t that extend to understanding that a RF can be a merely average hitter if he plays good defense?

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

people forget that defense counts just as much at RF or 1B or whatever as it does in CF

I get where you’re going with this, but it’s not literally true. Different positions have different numbers of chances. In particular, first basemen see by far the fewest number of balls hit to their zone of any fielding position, and the impact of fielding there is, thus, minimized.

A run is a run, but CFs have more opportunities to accrue (or debit) runs to your team than RFs do.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Sep 27, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, of course.

All I mean is saving a run in RF is worth just as much as saving a run in CF. Sweeney doesn’t have to have to be any better hat hitting to be valuable.

And FTR I’ve actually seen Dave Cameron go so far as to say that it doesn’t matter whether an outfielder in a corner or center. (It was in the Coco Crisp Transaction Oracle thread at BTF last offseason.) I think it probably makes a little difference, but not as much as most people seem to think (i.e. maybe Sweeney loses 2 runs of value in RF instead of CF).

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Something like that

But keep in mind— the extreme outliers are going to be the ones who suffer (or gain) the most from the transition. If a guy’s in the middle, which position he plays is probably irrelevant.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Sep 28, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok, you said, "great"

Also, you seem to be explaining why people think what they think instead of putting forth your opinion. My apologies, and consider my response a response to all those people that think “Sweeney doesn’t have enough power for COF spot.”

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correctomundo -- I'm just summarizing what I think are the belief systems operating

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 28, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It baffles me that you are so negative toward Barton

and yet so convinced that Rajai Davis is for real

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Sep 27, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't tell if that's what Nico thinks, or if it's just him rationalizing other people's opinions.

But if it’s what he thinks, then, yes, it’s quite bizarre.

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe not him specifically

But it’s very strange to me that there is a significant group of posters on AN who believe Davis has broken through this year, and yet a significant group who think Barton is a fluke who is having a good couple months at the end of the season.

They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick

by mikev on Sep 27, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed.

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have an idea...

let’s play Barton and Davis in spring training, and if they don’t stink it up too bad, let’s play them in April.

If they don’t stink it up too bad, let’s play them in May, too.

If either of ’em stinks up the joint, call up Carter or Cunningham.

If anyone offers a fuckin’ A trade for either one of them before then, pull the trigger…

If I were McGreevey, I’d have to say, “nuf ced.”

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Sep 28, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait, can't we play Cunningham and Davis?

Pretty please? Cunningham has a chance to be a really really good player. He needs to get a shot.

by Elston Gunn on Sep 28, 2009 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the A's like him

My take is that they realize he is still young and that he has specific holes (as Carter does) that need work before he’s ready to come up and play regularly. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got a real shot in 2010. (Though Hairston makes him a bit redundant; fortunately Hairston never stays healthy; unfortunately Cunningham tends to get hit in the skull by pitches.)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 28, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

coughCahillcough

by Future Ed on Sep 28, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

dont see it

hairston, davis, sweeney, buck are the top 4 OF. and if a FA bargain can be had then we might indulge too.

cunningham will be at AAA or another organization in 2010. we just dont have room for him. desme and brown mean business too, cunningham just doesnt have a future here.

by PL78 on Sep 29, 2009 2:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed.

I think he will be a good player, he just ended up in the wrong organization at the wrong time. Personally I don’t think Hairston should play, he isn’t that good, he isn’t going to help us contend when it counts, and he isn’t getting better. If I had my way I would platoon the spot to Buck and Patterson, and if both flop Cunningham would get his chance. Unfortunately this isn’t going happen.

I'm the genius who said Chris Carter will slug .650 his rookie season.

by JamesCaprio on Sep 29, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 29, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was the number 4 rated prospect going into this year.

I think you are drastically underrating him, and drastically underestimating how highly the organization thinks of him.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Sep 29, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you are overrating what the organization thinks of him...

He isn’t even get a September call up, but Patterson and Buck did, and it isn’t about contending. I don’t think they value him that much.

I'm the genius who said Chris Carter will slug .650 his rookie season.

by JamesCaprio on Sep 29, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The number FOUR guy in this system last year.

Ya, I don’t buy that they don’t value him.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Sep 29, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe not calling him up is showing value --

Not wanting to add service time, knowing he’s close but still not ready anyway.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 29, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Hairston should be kept over Cunningham

And Buck. And Sweeney. Definitely. Sure.

"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond

by hero66 on Sep 29, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

FTR, I'm not stating my own opinions there, just the "popular belief"

as I understand it. I think part of the reluctance to embrace Barton’s good months is that it’s coming, again, at the end of the season. It’s certainly promising, but until he thrives in months not dominated by AAAA callups and low pressure games, he still has another level to prove.

As for Davis, I’ve never personally been on the “Rajai has broken through” bandwagon so much as I keep suggesting that he could regress next year and STILL be quite valuable, as a very good defensive CFer with 30-40 SB potential, just hitting “decently” instead of “holy cow great.” There’s a lot of middle ground between what he’s doing now and what he did in the big leagues prior to 2009.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 28, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you can prove that Barton has only dominated against "AAAA" callups

You might have a point

"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond

by hero66 on Sep 29, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a Barton fan

I see him as a left-handed hitting version of Kevin Youkilis. Barton has great strike zone judgment (he walked more than he struck out at every minor league level), plate patience of a Buddhist monk, and a sweet line-drive swing. In my opinion, he should be our starting first baseman in foreseeable future. This is hardly a sign of anti-Carter sentiment, since I really like him too and I think he’ll be ready faster than most people think, but I also think he should probably end up as a DH/LF.

Speaking of Sweeney, his bat would play great in CF, but I’m also OK with him as our 2010 Opening Day in RF. We just don’t have any corner outfielders that can outhit AND outglove Sweeney at the present moment, and he’s an important insurance in a case Rajai turns back into a pumpkin or ends up traded.

by Manstein on Sep 27, 2009 11:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The fact that Sweeney can play CF

is a crucial factor in comparing him to other corner outfield prospects, I think.

You have to have someone on the roster as backup CF for when Rajai needs time off for whatever reason. If your starting RF can play CF, it gives you that much more flexibility for who you carry on the bench as 4th and 5th OF. Whether you think Sweeney is a good CF or just OK, he can at least play the position passably, which I don’t think you can say for most of his corner outfield rivals.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Sep 27, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the fundamental difference between Barton and Youkilis

is power. Youkilis is what Barton could be if Barton had more power potential.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 27, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair,

Youkilis had around the same amount of power that Barton has now. It wasn’t until 2008, his age-29 season, where he freakishly added around 130 points of slugging and 100 points of IsoP.

Please remedy my confusion
and thrust me back to the day.
The silence of your seclusion
brings night into all you say.

by danmerqury on Sep 27, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought you wrote "130 pounds"

which is also true

by Future Ed on Sep 27, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is a crucial, crucial point

Youkilis had very little power until he hit his prime physical years.

Barton’s way ahead of where Youkilis was at the same age.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Sep 27, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But isn't Youkilis one of those outliers that don't offer much predictive help?

He’s totally changed his hitting profile since he was in the minors.

by Elston Gunn on Sep 27, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I knew Youk had no power when he let twiggy from detroit drop him to the ground like a doll. Best moment this year.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."

by kenntoe on Sep 28, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

twiggy the supermodel?

I don’t think she sould lift his hat

by Future Ed on Sep 28, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

my question to you is:

how good can Youk dive into a shallow pool without hurting himself?

by PL78 on Sep 29, 2009 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Youkilis plays 81 games per year at Fenway.

by Manstein on Sep 27, 2009 12:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If you're trying to say the A's should move to Boston

you’ve got a tough sell ahead of you

by cityplANner on Sep 27, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They'd probably draw better

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not just skip the move and call them the Boston Athletics of Oakland?

Then steal the Giants’ RF wall while they’re asleep and stick it in the Coliseum!

WordUpThome: "TRENIDAD HUBBARD WENT TO HIS CUPBOARD TO FEED HIS POOR DOGS AND PETS...WHEN HE GOT THERE, THE CUPBOARD WAS BARE, AND THEY TRADED HIS DOG TO THE METS"

by Player To Be Named Later on Sep 28, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've been pretty down on Sweeney,

mainly cause I don’t like him a whole lot and don’t see a whole lot of potential in him. But he’s been proving me wrong and I’m glad he has been/hope he keeps it up.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Sep 27, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Despite Sweeney's "emergence"

He’s still a glorified singles hitter right now.

I know people keep expecting him to develop power, but he’s just not that strong despite his big frame. Have you ever noticed when he hits a home run how it literally takes everything he has? It’s Velez-like. Sure he could develop power, but he never hit for any kind of power in the minors or majors, so why should we expect it to suddenly happen now?

"Chicks dig the long ball, although fat chicks will settle for warning track power" - Nick Diamond

by hero66 on Sep 29, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way, are Daric and Ryan still sharing that apartment

in that real-life bromance fantasy?

Please remedy my confusion
and thrust me back to the day.
The silence of your seclusion
brings night into all you say.

by danmerqury on Sep 27, 2009 10:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sweeney and Barton and certainly fixtures for 2010, but 2012 is thinking a bit far ahead.

Sweeney could certainly be the CF by 2012 though. Rajai and Hairston probably won’t be around then, and Brown and Desme need to show a lot more to get established.

It's not the results, it's how you look going about those results -- Tim McCarver

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 28, 2009 7:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sweeney isn't going to be able to stick in center.

The further down the road we get, the more you can change “CF” to “RF” with certainty. He just doesn’t have the wheels for it.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 28, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan Sweeny = Jay Payton

He’s a great 4th outfielder, but your team has a problem if he’s an everyday player at any position.

Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.

by Threepwood XX on Sep 28, 2009 9:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good one

Jay payton also had the unrealized potential outside of cours field

by Future Ed on Sep 28, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh please

You can do much, much worse than have a plus-plus defender with a league-average bat in RF, who is also 24 and bound to improve.

by Manstein on Sep 29, 2009 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

better

… a plus-plus defender with a league-average bat in RF, who is also 24 and ~~bound~~ [likely] to improve

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Sep 29, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I for one loved Jay Payton. The guys swing was money, but I dont really like the comparison. (See Ryan Sweeney Is Better Than You Think He Is)

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 29, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs