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Brad Kilby And The Importance Of "Hiding The Ball"

When I pitched in Little League, I had a "low octane" fastball, so much so that when I took the mound scouts put away their radar gun and got out a calendar. Yet I was hard to hit because I was really good at hiding the ball. Sometimes the umpires couldn't find it for 20-30 minutes; my favorite spot was behind the water cooler in the visiting dugout but also if you place the ball right on the foul line it totally blends in and umpires will walk right by it.

But this post is not about my Little League career, it's about Brad Kilby and how much phantom velocity a pitcher gets if his delivery makes it difficult for hitters to pick the ball up out of the pitcher's hand. I've done the Math to the best of my ability and here's what I've come up with...Stay with me on the logic and correct me on any faulty Math...

Star-divide

First off, for what distance does a batter normally see the ball out of the pitcher's hand before it gets to the plate? At the moment a pitcher releases the pitch, he's not exactly 60' 6" from the plate and in fact the distance will vary slightly for different pitchers' deliveries. What's important is that at the point of release, the baseball is a little closer, not farther, to the plate than 60' 6", but not much. In other words, the pitcher starts 60' 6" from the plate and is significantly closer to the plate (55"?) when he lands into fielding position, but at the point of release the baseball is very near the pitching rubber, maybe a little in front of it. So I've chosen the distance 60' because it's as good an estimate as any and is a convenient round number.

Let's say a pitcher throws 90MPH. When you convert MPH to feet and seconds, you get that a pitcher throwing 90MPH is also throwing 132 feet per second. That means that if a 90MPH fastball travels for 60 feet, the batter has 0.4545 seconds (60 feet / 132 feet/second) to see the ball before it arrives at home plate.

Now let's say that Brad Kilby throws 90MPH but his delivery hides the ball such that the batter can't pick the ball up for a split second and by the time the batter starts seeing the pitch it has already traveled 3 feet. The batter has only 57 feet to see a pitch traveling at 132 feet/second and that translates to 0.4318 seconds. And if you go back to 60 feet and ask "How hard does a pitcher need to throw to give the batter 0.4318 seconds to react?" the answer is 95MPH.

By my calculations, if you can hide the ball for 3 feet you turn a 90MPH into a pitch the hitter reacts to as a 95MPH. If you can hide it for 5 feet, the batter has only 0.42 seconds to react and it acts like a 97MPH fastball. What's hard to estimate is for many feet can you steal by effectively hiding the ball in your delivery?

All I know is that a ball traveling 132 feet/second has already traveled 1.32 feet in just 1/100 of a second (turning a 90MPH fastball into reaction to a 92MPH fastball). That's 2.64 feet in a 1/50 of a second, and 5.28 feet in 1/25 of a second. Is it not possible that hitters are taking just 1/25 of a second longer to pick up the ball out of Kilby's hand, thus turning his 90MPH into the reaction to a 97MPH fastball? It has kind of looked that way, huh?

And if you ponder nothing else, consider how 1/100 of a second of reaction time is worth about 2 MPH on an average fastball. Hitting is harrrrrrd.

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A few years ago...

…there was an interesting article about how based on the understanding of the brain and how optic nerves work, that there were literally too few milliseconds for the average brain to process the typical major league pitch.

It had a reference to the fact that major league baseball players had that advantage over non-players but still were deciding to swing when the ball was something like 20 feet from the plate.

I googled around for it but couldn’t find it. Anybody else remember that article?

by Slappyfrog on Sep 26, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hi Nico

I like your logic. I do believe that the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand from about the same point as their leading foot or least close to it. That would shorten the distance from 60’ to about 55 to 57 feet. This is a guess as I haven’t thrown a baseball since long before you were born.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"

by Eastbayjim on Sep 26, 2009 10:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it's hard for me to assess where the hitter first sees the ball

in or out of the pitcher’s hand. If it’s at 57’ that cuts 5% of the distance. But since every ratio gets calculated from that 5% cut, the final numbers won’t be too terribly different if you use 57’ — but let me do the Math and I’ll reply to this in a sec with the adjusted numbers for 57’…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm getting the same numbers (if I'm doing it right)

What I don’t know is whether it’s as likely to be able to hide the ball for as high a % of the time from 57’. That might be the difference.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is just going from Brad to Wuertz

Ouch.

I blog about the A's and Giants! It's cleverly titled "The Elephant Seal!" You can visit it! http://theelephantseal.wordpress.com !

by ORthey on Sep 26, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

watching Kilby pitch

I had pretty decent seats at US Cellular field to see Kilby pitch against the White Sox in his second major league appearance. Of the three batters he faced, he struck out two and got one fly ball out.

From my seat over by first base, I had a great view of how Kilby tucks the ball behind his fairly substantial back before each pitch. The White Sox fans near me were also fairly amazed at how unconventional and effective his delivery looked that night.

by colin on Sep 26, 2009 10:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for your musings Nico

I needed something to read while proctoring this exam.

by noava22 on Sep 26, 2009 10:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So I take it you read Baseball Prospectus?

Eric Seidman had an article on this 4 days ago…

by chri5 on Sep 26, 2009 11:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No, I don't read Baseball Prospectus

I guess great minds think alike.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at the article, same concept different content

He refers to “86 —> 91” but walk through any of the Math involved (maybe will later on). Too bad I didn’t post mine when I crunched the numbers a few days ago, because then I’d have been first!!!!!111

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn’t trying to imply you stole the idea. Just thought maybe you saw it and thought the math should be a little different.

by chri5 on Sep 26, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does look like their Math and mine match,

which makes me feel better about my computations.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

huh. looks like he’s a stinkerballer.

by noava22 on Sep 26, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He does it all the time so that we're used to it.

Then he can pull his underwear out of his crack anytime he wants and we won’t know.

by LoneStranger on Sep 28, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Idea Nico

I remember that batters used to say that Bradford seemed to pitch much faster than the radar gun indicated. I wonder just how much of that was batters pattern matching that got short circuited in a way not unlike hiding the ball. Also it seems easier to pitch an underhanded curve ball than an over handed one because of the top spin required. If you could combine Ziggy’s underhanded curve balls with hiding the ball what a nasty mess that would make of hitters.

by Ran on Sep 26, 2009 11:44 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks -- what I wonder is whether

the benefits are significant enough that it’s worthwhile trying to incorporate some “hide the ball” deception at the end of a delivery. You’d have to start that in A-ball (the A’s shouldn’t be reinventing Gio’s delivery just for that), but for guys with so-so fastballs and otherwise good tools it could be a Ziggy-like career saver.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradford's ball actually travels a shorter path to the catcher's glove than an overhand delivery

He gains a foot or so through that route, in addition to whatever benefits deception gives him.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Sep 26, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In his rookie season, it looked like Street's exaggerated windup

was designed to “cheat” a bit — that he was a little in front of the rubber by the time he kicked and followed through.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 27, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm the cook tonight down here on Stannage Ave

But I wonder if you’re still hosting a soiree for tonight’s game, and if you accept or repel partycrashers?

Not sayin’ that I am free to get there, (see above) and I’m not bringing food, but, just askin’.

"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw

by One won lost won on Sep 26, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not tonight, but Tuesday night -- Chez Nico II at 6pm (BBQ dead things, then watch game)

If you can make it, let me know (nico@lmi.net). Same goes for anyone who hasn’t yet said they’re coming…

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok...mucho better

I will n
know better Monday night about Tuesday night.
thanks, Nico!

"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw

by One won lost won on Sep 26, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cool - hope to see you.

Email me if you’re coming and I’ll get you directions.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How on earth do you accommodate parking for Chez Nico?

My recollection of your neighborhood is tiny little winding roads and nowhere to park. Am I missing something, or do you run a shuttle bus?

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Sep 26, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just rope off the entire neighborhood.

All of North Berkeley, actually. Then I put Cindi at one end and oaktoon at another to let cars through if they know the secret password.

All seriousness aside, parking’s not that bad. Just about all of the winding road I live on has public parking (exception: bus zone). Plus nobody ever wants to come, which helps.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 26, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somewhat, possibly related Q about the speedgun.

Where/over what interval does it read the MPH?

Clearly the ball is slowing down on its way to the batter (even pitches that “explode”) — anybody know by how much? Does that vary by pitch/spin?

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Sep 26, 2009 3:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Pitchf/x cameras track "start speed" and "end speed".

As an example, Henry Rodriguez’s fastest fastball slowed down from 99.9 to 90.1 mph before it crossed the plate. A quick skimming of Henry Rodriguez’s appearance and one of Trevor Cahill’s seems to show that fastballs slow down by around 10 mph, whereas slower pitches slow down by 8-ish.

Please remedy my confusion
and thrust me back to the day.
The silence of your seclusion
brings night into all you say.

by danmerqury on Sep 26, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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