Oakland Athletics 2009 Wins Compared to Attendance
by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 15, 2009 2:43 PM PDT
41 comments
SB Nation site Beyond the Boxscore did a fairly comprehensive look at the 2009 attendance for the American League and how it related to wins. The interesting thing is that while we all know that the A's are last in the AL in overall attendance in 09, they're also the only team in the AL West averaging more in attendance per win than their actual attendance. Yet that's not exactly anything to brag about because they're also the only team averaging under 20,000 per game.
Here is what they say about the AL West:
AL West - It's a shame that this division has less competition, more money, better GMs, and worse attendance. It's the AFC South of Baseball. I suppose its unfair to say that, as Seattle up until recently had Bill Bavasi which pretty much undoes all positive goodwill in a 15-state region. Of particular note is not only how bad Oakland is this year, but how apathetic OaklandFan is as well.
It makes me wonder if A's fans have completely gone away or if this team is just that dependent on Mr. Casual Fan. I mean the A's have worse attendance than Kansas City and Baltimore, teams that have been bad for a very long time and have only continued that trend. Or is there something to what Lewis Wolff has been saying about the stadium being a big draw? I will say that both Kansas City and Baltimore have much better stadiums than Oakland. And the thing is, the A's are, IMO, a team that is right on the cusp of being good again. I would not doubt if this is the low year for this team.
Maybe someone else can enlighten me on this. Course I know this is going to bring the same old cries that Lewis Wolff has systematically tried to kill attendance. But I'm truly baffled by it. Especially since the team became infinitely more interesting, at least to me, since they dealt Matt Holliday.
Here is the conclusion Beyond the Boxscore comes to:
Overall, the study shows that for the most part, great teams in big cities have incredible attendance. The surprises are that several cities have teams they don't deserve, including Florida with its famously bored audience, and the KC Faithful with its famously horrible team management.
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The Giants have been good and the economy has sucked...
It makes sense that attendance has been way way down. Also I do buy that the team itself has decreased its own attendance through poor public relations.
There are differing opinions on me. According to Iglew "DFA is PT with a sense of humor. PT is DFA with introspective self-doubt. I like them both" but according to sirbed Im "The Stats Killer"
by designatedforassignment on Sep 15, 2009 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1 on poor public relations
Whether it’s deserved or not, I think a lot of fans perceive the A’s as not caring about their fans because they trade away all the stars and seem dead set to get as far away from Oakland as possible.
Plus, I think the Giants’ new stadium has been slowly siphoning off fans.
by DDroney on Sep 15, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The stadium is a shithole.
There’s really not much else to say. They didn’t even draw well in 2006 when they went to the ALCS.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s my shithole and I love it, but it’s a shithole.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Sep 15, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
shithole-y-o
In my opinion, watching the actual game at the coliseum isn’t awful – it’s everything else. The shitty concessions – including the ridiculous amount of time it takes to get a beer in a stadium w/ <20,000 – how packed it gets in the perimieter, etc. I also frequently feel like the staff at the Coliseum hates me – rudely kicking me out of empty seats in an empty section, closing all but one of the parking lot entrances on a weekday day game, for examples, and they’re not sorry about it (although the ticket services people are great!).
So yea, the Coliseum is a shithole mostly b/c the A’s run as a shithole. And I still attend on a regular basis and yes, it’s our shithole.
by my_cat_max on Sep 15, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So as long as we are throwing out opinions
it depends where you sit… after going to Fenway and sitting in the field level seats I can say that the field level in Oakland is not even remotely the same experience. Mainly because in Oakland you are not really all that close to the game in field level while in Fenway it’s as if the seats I sat in are closer to the action than the dugouts are in Oakland.
Also, I miss the old, real bleachers. Being higher and angled differently in the new “bleachers” (are they really new if they have been there since 1996?) means losing your view of the action in center field a lot of the time.
Neither of these two things really have much to do with the way the Coliseum is run.
The Coliseum used to be great relative to other ballparks… but the upgrade across the Bay (and just about everywhere else in the country) and the remodel that made it worse for baseball than it used to be have changed that dramatically.
by jeffro on Sep 15, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
I also agree with that cat guy up there.
Just about the only person there who I actually recognize on a regular basis is the lady outside of the Field Irish Pub who pours the Guinness draft right outside.
The rest of the people who work there have bad attitudes and really probably shouldn’t be working in a SERVICE job. Dude, you’re not doing me a favor by bringing me some shitty nachos with cheese type substance on them, so don’t act so put out. You’re getting paid and I"m going to give you a tip on top of that.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Sep 15, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you tip?
Al: We gotta form a government for the settlement.
Merrick: Who does?
Al: Us! You and me. Come to me in a vision! You stupid bastard
by Leopold Bloom on Sep 15, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What kind of asshole do you think I am?
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Sep 15, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Mr. Pink kind.
Al: We gotta form a government for the settlement.
Merrick: Who does?
Al: Us! You and me. Come to me in a vision! You stupid bastard
by Leopold Bloom on Sep 15, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You take that back.
You take that back right now.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Sep 15, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The View from Afar
I am an A’s fan living in Texas. Grew up watching the Kansas City Athletics because my mom liked them. Just stayed with them. When I saw what the field looked like a few weeks ago when the A’s played on the day after the Raiders played, it hit me that Oakland really doesn’t give a shit about the A’s. No team should be treated as poorly as the A’s are treated.
by redtopcowboy on Sep 15, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct.
It’s something you never hear the OMFG KEEP THE A’S IN OAKLAND troop admit. The city bent over fuggin backwards to do whatever Al Davis wanted so the precious Raiders could come back.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Sep 15, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the bleachers
One of the great things about the bleachers was that they weren’t that far from the field compared to the rest of the seats. There was a gap of about 10 feet from the outfield fence to the bleachers, and then the bleachers started.
I went to Fenway a couple of times, sitting in the bleachers, and it was way, WAY farther from the action than the bleachers used to be in the Coliseum. This was back before they refurbished Fenway, but there was no doubt that the bleachers in the Coliseum were better seats than anything in the outfield in Fenway, where you were further away and you couldn’t see parts of the outfield.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Sep 15, 2009 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bleachers rocked.
Those days are gone.
Al: We gotta form a government for the settlement.
Merrick: Who does?
Al: Us! You and me. Come to me in a vision! You stupid bastard
by Leopold Bloom on Sep 15, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Incorrect.
Bleachers still rock.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Sep 15, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They might, but I've only sat in them a couple of times
because I became an NRAF in 1999 (on Opening Day, in fact).
Obviously, I’m biased against Mt. Davis for replacing my bleachers, but objectively, I disliked the distance from the field, I disliked the non-bench seating (can’t lean back or put your feet up), and I hated being unable to see big areas of the outfield.
I assume the bathrooms are nicer, and the concessions are no worse and probably better. But as a place to sit and watch a ball game, Mt. Davis seems significantly worse than the old bleachers were.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Sep 15, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Mt. Davis sucks.
the lower bleachers still kick ass though.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
by mikev on Sep 15, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there must have been more seating in the old bleachers than the new, because, at least in frontish, people’re kind of packed in there. even with benches i can’t imagine being able to put my feet on the seat in front of me because there’s always someone there.
bleachers are still fun, i say without being able to compare to the old. (actually, to me, old means drummers, and yeah, that’d be fun to have them full force again.) i love the various bleacher creatures. like the kid in the hockey mask, i feel like i’ve seen him grow from a wide-eyed pup to a hulk-fisted man.
my shameful secret: front row in section 242 (yes, that’d be front 242), bleacher reserves. it’s far, but very symmetrical, you feel like the whole stadium is yours, and you don’t miss catches under the out-of-town scoreboard. that’s for days when you can’t get within the first few rows of the lower bleachers.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Sep 15, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my point, well sort of
At one point in time, the Coliseum was an AWESOME ballyard. That point in time passed with a big lurch in 1996 and got progressively worse as everywhere else improved their stadium situation. I miss those bleachers and the aluminum thunder that echoed when everybody stomped on them… sigh
by jeffro on Sep 15, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
do not disagree
grew up in Chicago going to Cubs games and it’s a much nicer place to see a game w/o a doubt, though I haven’t been to Wrigley for 20 yrs so my memory is mostly being a kid and getting baseballs on a stick and shouting to Leon Durham and Ryne Sandbury and thinking they could hear me. And the Giants ballpark is a waaaaay nicer place to watch a game than the Coli. Still, my biggest beef is w/ management of the stadium. I can handle ugly, can’t handle rude incompetence.
I am not drunk, btw.
by my_cat_max on Sep 15, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I sort of meant to agree with this sentiment but didn’t. There are a few folks at the coli that give you a smile and treat you nice… but most make me feel like it is my pleasure to have them there. Very different in New York and Boston.
by jeffro on Sep 15, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A's have gotten the fan support they deserve this year.
If you aren’t a hardcore A’s fan why follow this team? The players change all the time and up until they started running more after the all star break they were playing boring, losing baseball.
I have some hope for the future but this ownership group scares me and I’m going to be very curious to see what they do in the off season.
The A’s should have money to spend and they need to do so to get the casual fan interested in the A’s again.
I know I didn’t come out in July like I have for years and see the A’s play because frankly I didn’t think the A’s were worth the money it costs me to fly out and see 6-7 games.
Is the Coliseum a bad ballpark? It’s not great but the A’s have drawn well before at the Coliseum.
The simple truth is the A’s need to keep some players that fans can get attached to and win games. If they do that people will show up and down the line they could get a new ballpark.
by sirbed on Sep 15, 2009 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
According to most, even here,
losing always equals boring.
by Future Ed on Sep 15, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
consistent losing equals boring.
Losing by itself isn’t that bad, as long as the team is more or less in contention.
by LoneStranger on Sep 15, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of new ballparks
San Jose Mayor had a press conference today on the subject.
by jeffro on Sep 15, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This whole post will probably degenerate into another stadium debate
but there are three things that are hurting the A’s attendance.
1) The Stadium – It’s outdated. It was ruined by Mt. Davis and by football every September. The food isn’t really anything special. Aramark isn’t the best choice to run the concessions. Getting from one place to another on the promenade is terrible when people line up. It does have BART and Caltrain going for it.
2) The Location of the Stadium – It’s in the middle of a not-so-good part of the City. Even if you don’t agree, it’s doesn’t matter. It’s the impression that most people have. If you couldn’t just hop off of 880 to get there, attendance would be even lower. There isn’t anything to do around there before or after the game to bring the casual fans and their friends who are just looking for a night out or something to do during the day.
3) The Team Sucks - They are doing ok since ditching Holliday, but no one really knows it outside of us. It’s going to take a couple years of doing well for the casual fans to realize that the team isn’t sucky. Buzz doesn’t just happen overnight. And who wants to follow a team that you won’t recognize in two or three years?
Bonus 4) – Like DFA said above, public relations sucks. The marketing department could be doing a better job to change the public’s preconceived ideas.
by LoneStranger on Sep 15, 2009 3:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean
BART and Amtrak, not Caltrain.
by jeffro on Sep 15, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel that most of the fans come from surrounding bay area cities, I love the A’s but it’s dfficult to come out regularly from Marin, whenever I’m at a game fellow fans are hardly ever from Oakland, the only way the A’s will draw is if they play good baseball otherwise fans that usually come would rather watch on the couch than make the trek to the coliseum
When we played softball, I’d steal second base, feel guilty and go back.
- Woody Allen
by rhymeswithelephant on Sep 15, 2009 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
help
i’m having trouble grasping this…
they’re also the only team in the AL West averaging more in attendance per win than their actual attendance.
???
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Sep 15, 2009 4:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It means . . .
We’re the only team in the AL West with a losing record.
by williadc on Sep 16, 2009 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is one thing that really got to me recently on this subject...
On the weekend when the Bay Bridge was closed one of the local news stations did a story on alternate transportation methods to get around the Bay Area. On that weekend the Giants were playing at home and the news station had a crew out at Jack London Square showing the Giants fans boarding the ferry to get across to the stadium from the East Bay. There were so many fans that showed up that the ferry service had to bring in another ferry to bring all the people.
Keep in mind that these people are boarding a Giants Ferry in OAKLAND! I was watching this and it was just making me mad. These are east bay baseball fans who are going out of their way to attend a Giants game. There is some kind of serious disconnect between the A’s and baseball fans when you can’t even capture fans in your own backyard and you play in a stadium that is more accessible. I understand that our stadium is not the nicest, but it is not a horrible place to watch a game or such a bad experience that you would go and say that you are never coming back because it was so horrible!
The A’s seem to have an allright marketing campaign, I see many ads on TV and billboards around the bay area advertising the A’s. I think that sometimes we underestimate the KNBR factor. The casual bay area sports fan probably tunes into and listens to KNBR and since they are in bed with the Giants and give us ZERO coverage it makes sense that casual fans will follow the Giants over us.
I wish I had all the answers or that their was one magical cure to our attendance issues. I go to almost every game and it sickens and saddens me every time to sit in an empty coliseum to watch my team.
There is no A in OFFENSE!!
by wacchampions on Sep 15, 2009 5:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The A’s are on pace to hit right around 1.43 million in attendance this year (or about where they were in 1999). As for why it’s so low, it’s probably at least partly the ballpark. The team could be doing a better job at pushing their low-cost ticket options too (closing the 3rd deck doesn’t help them any IMHO).
by dtnick on Sep 15, 2009 7:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
From a lifelong Oakland A's fan.
Unfortunately I’m in NY now and have to go to Mets and Yankee games. They do have nice stadiums though.
The reasons are simple and they’ve been said many times in this post.
1) The stadium is outdated and the service isn’t great. Even though the neighborhood isn’t the best it has great access from BART, Amtrak and the freeways so a new stadium at the same site wouldn’t be that bad. It could also spark redevelopment of the surrounding area.
2) The team has been losing consistently. like lonestranger said it’s not the losing that is boring it’s that it’s always happening.
3) The ownership is consistently rebuilding instead of keeping players past their first contract. With the exception of Chavez of course. You could definitely build an all-star team with ex-A’s. Most casual fans probably couldn’t name 3 players on the current A’s. I used to think it was great how Billy was able to keep the farm system stocked but i’m tired of seeing ex-A’s become stars on their new teams!
4) The ownership has no interest staying in Oakland. Bad attendance will help with their goal of relocating.
by Bay2NY on Sep 15, 2009 7:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
All that being said I’m a Richmond native and want nothing more than them to stay in Oakland, I just don’t see it happening though. Wolff wants to go to San Jose, SJ wants them and Oakland doesn’t seem to care if they go.
If they do go to SJ it’d be better than out of the area but, it makes me sad to say this, I know I’d end up going to Frisco and supporting the Giants because SJ is just too damn far from my beloved East Bay.
by Bay2NY on Sep 15, 2009 7:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Apparently we are not the only team/sport suffering attendance issues...
This is from ESPN.com today:
Chargers executive Jim Steeg said he was “pessimistic” that the home opener will sell out by Thursday afternoon in order to lift the TV blackout. Steeg said there were 2,500 tickets remaining as of Tuesday. “That’s a lot of tickets to sell in 48 hours,” he said. He said only 50 tickets were sold on Tuesday morning. The team can request a 24-hour extension. “We aren’t going to cross that bridge until we get there,” he said. The Chargers haven’t had a regular-season blackout since 2004.
There is no A in OFFENSE!!
by wacchampions on Sep 15, 2009 11:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yet another archaic TV
rule that makes no sense to me.
“So we can’t sell out the game? Then let’s black that sum bitch out so that the fans around the area can’t watch it on TV! That will teach those bastards not to buy our product.”
It makes far more sense for the team itself to purchase the tickets if they have to. Then they can donate them to a worthy cause and get themselves some public kudo’s and maybe make a fan or two in the process.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Sep 16, 2009 4:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And just to pile it on....
For a team based in SD of all places, this is an exceedingly stupid practice. There are thousands of Navy and Marine servicemen in the area that would make fine candidates to donate tickets to. Young, testosterone loaded males…..they kind of people who are tailor made fan potential for the NFL.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Sep 16, 2009 4:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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