Can Landon Powell be better than Kurk Suzuki?
by OmahaHi on Aug 3, 2009 7:52 AM PDT
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PrintI know a lot of people are perfectly happy with the job Kurt Suzuki has done. His defense, has been solid. He has a .995 fielding % in the majors. He has a total of 3 errors/passed balls combined in 770 inn, which is outstanding. He has given up 137 SB in 193 attempts which isn't terribly impressive. Everyone feels his handling of the pitching staff has been great. I don't know how to quantify that except by his catchers earned run average (cERA) which is 4.54 this year and middle of the pack for catchers. I think his biggest downfall is that he is not progressing as a hitter. He has not had a OPS higher than 735(his rookie year) since AA ball. And it has gone down, if slightly, both years since his rookie year.
Landon Powell hasn't had an OPS under 762 since his first real season of AA ball. Although we won't know if Powell can progressively get better or even hold onto what he's doing OPS wise until he gets a few more years under his belt, we can guess Suzuki isn't going to go out of the 700-750 range anytime soon.
Suzuki April OPS-855, May-666, June-729 July-687.
Powell- April OPS-750, May-905, June 701 July 1144 (wow).
I know SSS and all, but with more at bats he could be more consistent, not less. (not that I expect him to put up a 900+ OPS every year). Powell is only hitting 50 OPS points higher than Kurk, but he has shown a tendency this year to improve, with the ability to have really high OPS months.
His cERA is also 4.54, so at least this year he has handled the staff the same as Suzuki. I think in this day and age of managers calling games, it may not be that important anyways. His fielding % of .976 isn't great. He has had 4 errors/passed balls combined in 161 innings. I have been unable to find any fielding stats for Powell in the minors so I'm not sure if this is a solid trend or not but he defiantly needs some work and may never be as good as Kurk behind the plate. He has given up 6 SB in 12 attempts which would make him 2nd best in all baseball behind Kenji Jojima for that amount of attempts. Again, I do not know what his caught stealing % has been in the minors, but he has been excellent so far this year in his limited time.
Powell is a year older than Suzuki and his most obvious weakness beyond his behind the plate D, is his ability to stay healthy and stay on the field. He may never be able to play more than half a season behind the plate and would need to be snuck in at DH or 1B to take advantage of his bat. At the very least, Powell might have made himself one of the top 5 back-up catchers in the ML in his rookie year and a very valuable asset to the A's.
If he could stay healthy,( I know a big, big IF) he could compete for the starting C job for half the teams in baseball (if not our own) as his OPS is around 15th in MLB with his amount of games played. I think he could be a nice trade chip to the right team if we decide to keep Suzuki long-term. He could also help make Suzuki expendable if we got the right price and were willing to go with a platoon at C with one of the other minor league studs we have on the way at Catcher in a few years or more, such as Donaldson in AA who leads the Texas league in catcher OPS or Stassi if he signs.
All and all, I think many teams wish they had a Landon Powell on their team right about now. If he can improve his behind the plate D at least 25%, as well as get the necessary at bats to show if his hitting is really legit and improving, he could really give Kurk a run for his money.
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Given his health, no.
Landon Powell has to deal with significant health issues and is lucky to be playing at all. Frankly, I doubt that he would be the everyday catcher even if Suzuki were to be injured, as I suspect the A’s want to be sure he isn’t overworked. He’s a nice guy to have as a backup though.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking
With his knee problems and his pretty obvious weight problems, he’ll likely never be more than a once or twice a week type player—which, if Suzuki keeps this pace up, is all we’ll need. I’d like to see Powell get to play more often, but only to get Suzuki more rest. If Suzuki’s legs start to fail, then we have two catchers with achy knees, which is pretty much like no catchers.
I think your question is a great hypothetical
asking what might have been had Powell stayed healthy. He was a #1 draft pick for a reason, but given reality — multiple knee surgeries and a liver condition — Powell’s future is almost certainly as a backup catcher, or a DH.
Thus, Suzuki will be the better player, whether or not he changes his name to Kurk.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But if he did change his name to Kurk, maybe he could be a Captain.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
And if Geren had rested Suzuki earlier in the season more regularly, maybe we wouldn't be seeing a dip in his OPS
Geren really should have put his foot down and started Powell in a few more games earlier in the season. That way Powell gets more ABs to prove himself and Suzuki gets the rest he needs to stay fresh all season long. This “Jason Kendall school of catching” BS is what’s going to run Suzuki into the ground by the time he hit free agency. It’s okay for him to catch 130 games in a year. Everybody wins.
by cityplANner on Aug 3, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1000
"I occasionally post and offer little to no insight here on AN except emotional ramblings. Do I remind you of someone? (Nomar maybe?)"
Kurt is of Club Leader - Period....He is the Man!!!!!!!!
The guy is a winner, plays at 110% all the time. His defense is amazing, hitting is just an added bonus. Honestly, I would be soooo pissed if we ever traded this guy even with all of the C prospects we have down in the minors.
Kurt is our MVP, club house leader and everything we want in a baseball player.
Captain Kurk?
"Paul Thomas is breaking something somewhere" ~jeepers
by OptimistPrime on Aug 3, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
nice combo
Catcher is one of the few positions A’s don’t need to worry about. Based on Powell’s nice contributions there is no reason for Suzuki to catch so many games. I say keep them both and split it 110/52.
How about 111/51???
"I occasionally post and offer little to no insight here on AN except emotional ramblings. Do I remind you of someone? (Nomar maybe?)"
Only starting Suzuki 110 or 111 games
really isn’t getting enough from him when he’s healthy and young. I agree he needs to rest a little more, but I don’t agree he needs to rest a lot more.
Remember that in the 1st half of the season, the A’s had several extra days off, due to cancellations and rainouts. If you track it day by day, Suzuki did get a fair number of days off along the way — maybe he could have had 3-4 more, but more than that would just not be putting your best team out there for no good reason.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
but do you disagree that, when healthy, powell is at least very close to as good as suzuki?
because if you don’t, then you might as well give everybody as much rest as possible while putting out a similar product.
I do disagree that Powell is close to as good as Suzuki
“When healthy” is only a hypothetical, because Powell comes as a slow, not overly mobile behind the plate athlete due to past issues. Plus, Suzuki is a really fine player. I think Powell could have been close to as good, but it didn’t roll that way for him and he is stuck being a very good backup who would be exposed more — and almost certainly injured — if he played much more. Kind of like Nomar.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
if Powell can't play 40-50 games a year,
he’s not even worth having as a backup.
111 games too many
110 is perfect — 111 is too many. That’s like making a “6-minute abs” video when everybody knows 7 minutes are needed to work your abs.
Did you know that the letters in "abs" appear in alphabetical order?
I thought you should know that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The Great Logjam
Powell should be playing a lot more regularly so we all could see what he’ll do. The problem is that the A’s are in a logjam (and will continue to be for the future) at 1B and DH. Powell should, from here on out, play more games at catcher to rest Suzuki, I think.
People have talked about this, but the answer this year is to play Powell instead of Bobby Crosby at 1B, have Barton ready as the back-up catcher when Powell is DH’ing, move Nomar and keep Giambi on the DL til September 1st. Then, after that, play Giambi sporadically as a tribute. To get Barton in the game, I’d see what Everidge can do at 3B.
There’s just too many people at too few positions. Too bad Patterson sucks everywhere and Kennedy/Ellis can’t play shortstop.
Has Kennedy actually tried to play SS?
I don’t think he really played 3B until he got to the A’s and he has done well.. so let him try SS
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
He played one game there with St. Louis in 2007
Shortstop is a lot more difficult than 3B and 2B. Third base requires less range and quicker reaction time—not that SS doesn’t need good reaction time. He’ll be 34 next year, and he’s never been a particularly athletic guy. He would be a bad shortstop, plain and simple, and I don’t think very many people would disagree with that.
It's his health.
But I think a strict platoon (Powell as a lefty against righthanders) would make a lot of sense. Keep them both healthy and rested all year because I do agree that, ignoring health, they’re roughly equal in overall value.
Platooning Suzuki
The thing is, Zook has had a reverse platoon advantage throughout his career:
vs. RHP: .287/.340/.396
vs. LHP: .237/.312/.362
Powell’s also done much better against RH so far this year, though in a very SSS. His minor league splits showed virtually identical production against RH and LH.
I’d predict that if Suzuki ever has a “break out” season, it’ll be because he maintains his hitting against RH and figures out how to hit lefties. If he maintains his line against RH and develops a platoon advantage against LH, he’ll be an All Star.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Reverse platoon
Aha, so he really is Japanese then?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
hmm, didn't know that
aren’t reverse platoon splits (for hitters) almost always flukes? anyway, the larger point is i’d like to see Suzuki play about 2/3 of the games and stay rested.
Ronny Cedeno had a pronounced reverse platoon split
and maintained it over several years, leading to much debate over whether there was something peculiar about him or he was just an extreme random outlier.
More significantly, examinations of those few MLB players who do post reverse platoon splits shows a very strong correlation with players who came over from Japan, leading to speculation about how different pitching and hitting styles in Japan might reduce or even reverse the usual pattern we see here on this continent.
This came up a while back on AN and I think I linked to the relevant articles then. An AN archive search ought to turn it up.
(As far as I know, Kurt Suzuki never played in Japan, so I would assume his own split is just a fluke.)
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Zook actually seems to be correcting this problem as he gets more experience
Platoon OPS advantage, vs. RH
2007: +149 points (SSS)
2008: +87 points
2009: -.016 points
So this year he’s a tiny bit better against lefties than against righties. If he can keep the trend going in the right direction, maybe he can improve his production significantly next season.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think the key is for him is to hit righties worse
It’s easier than hitting lefties better.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They should bring me in as his personal hitting coach
I guarantee I can make him a worse hitter vs. righties!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Or you could pitch to him and he'd be better against righties
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not if I get to use a giant nerf ball
Then he’d be baffled by my scroogie.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
If it's light green, then you're right.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Another interesting statistic is that Suzuki hits .325 on the road and .230 on the road.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 3, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow those road and road splits are large, the problem is deciding which road to sit him on.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 3, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Sit him on the road not taken.
That will make all the difference.
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
I meant to say that he hits .230 at home. I am so silly.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 3, 2009 2:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
He also hits .325 at home.
It’s a weird split that you don’t see often: .325 at home, .230 at home, .325 on the road, and .230 on the road.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That’s how amazing Kurt Suzuki is.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 3, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Half of the fans were there to see Rickey, half were there to see the game
and the other half were there to see Suzuki hit on the road.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Kurt is what you call a palindrome.
This is almost as good as a ferrarodrome but not as good as hitting for the cycle.
Bob Garen is incontinent
I like the personal catcher route
like Maddux / Eddie Perez with the Braves. It allows Powell the ability to work with the specific pitcher and plan/view film accordingly. It gives Suzuki 20% of the games off, giving him just under 130 games a year.
The most famous one
…was Tim McCarver and Steve Carlton, in both St. Louis and Philadelphia.
Agreed -- I say we start Powell every time Carlton is pitching!
Those are also the games I’m ok with Crosby playing.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Powell catches Brett Anderson -- got it!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Didn't Ron Hassey always catch for Bob Welch?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think Welch's impression was that it was two Ron Hasseys.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Welch's impression of two Ron Hasseys
That would involve him sticking his arms out, right?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
From what I remember, yes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Who is Kurk Suzuki?
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
I believe Pam has the answer to that.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
... but apparently she's not reading this thread, so
Not sure, but I think that was in San Diego. Or maybe Dodger Stadium.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
woops-the scoreboard operator must be a closet Trekkie also
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
You know why Suzuki is throwing to second? 'Cause there's a man on first...
“May the force be with you.”
Oh come on — it’s “Star something.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They make for a better pair (pear?)
than Adam Millhouse and Jason Ken Doll
Bob Garen is incontinent
DH
I am a fan of the idea that Powell, Carter, Barton and Suzuki would make an excellent 4 way tandem at 1b and DH
That's too many people at the two positions that are easiest to play.
I’d like to see Wallace and a backup playing 3B, Carter and Barton playing 1B, Suzuki catching, and whoever is left over from that group can take a DH spot.
How is that different than what I just wrote?
You have Wallace, another guy, Barton, Carter and Suzuki (and another guy?) That is 6 for 3 instead of 4 for 2? Did I misread?
I just re read this
I meant Suzuki at Catcher, Powell as his back up, Barton as the emergency Catcher and then… Carter, Barton and Powell splitting DH and 1b… so 4 for 3 really.
I've actually thought about this quite a bit
I don’t doubt for a second that Powell is the better hitter. If he wasn’t a walking corpse, then I’d have no problem with him starting over Kurt.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
Weird timing for this post
I love Kurt Suzuki but I have been second guessing him lately. It appears that he is calling his own game and I don’t feel comfortable with what pitches he is calling in many situations. One that immediately comes to mind— Andrew Bailey should be throwing a fastball and should set that pitch up with a fastball. Why is he throwing a 2nd pitch when the 1st one is nearly unhittable?
The rookies are getting “bedrocked” too but I’m not confident that they’re throwing the best pitch for each situation. Cahill had a nice change working for him in Boston but he didn’t seem to use it nearly enough. Maybe the coaches are telling him what to call more than I realize in which case I can blame them instead of Suzuki?
What does everyone else think? We should leave Gio out of this discussion because he simply can’t command any part of the strikezone on most nights. He has great stuff but he seems to tailor his game after Nuke Laloosh.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Aug 3, 2009 12:18 PM PDT reply actions
I don't see as many of the games as most
But from where I sit, Captain Kurk is doing just fine. The D – and mainly the handling of the pitching staff – is the most important part of the job. He’s at least good at that, and possibly very good.
If on top of that the catcher gives you anything productive offensively, it’s a plus. So, even if we assumed that Powell’s stats were replicable over a full season, I wouldn’t see him replacing the Captain. But Suzuki is hardly a slouch at the plate. He’s one of the team’s best hitters. Granted, not a power guy, but still a very good hitter.
Between the two of them, it seems like we have a very good situation. I do agree with giving Powell more time, mostly to rest Suzuki. But catching is not this team’s weakness.
As for those pitch selections, I can’t really comment other than to say that even Mariano Rivera uses his other pitches sometimes. You have to keep major league hitters honest, because there is almost no pitch that you can get by a good hitter if he knows it’s coming.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Aug 3, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Kurt in the aggregate (offense and defense) is the better player
Landon’s bat is a sweet, sweet luxury. Or, possibly, a great trade chip.
Given his propensity to drive in runs,
Powell could be a pretty valuable backup catcher and on other days the team’s “ace in the hole, once/game high leverage” hitter (pinch hitter). The latter is basically the role Nomar has, except Powell might actually be good at it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Agreed
I like having Powell’s bat to spell Suzuki, or to take over for extended periods if Suzuki ever proves he’s a true Athletic and has to go on the DL (knocking on every wood surface in my home).
Still, catchers with offensive capabilities are highly valued in baseball. If some team saw Landon as a viable starter and offered a sweet deal, I’d take it in a heartbeat. Especially with Donaldson not too far away.
Donaldson.
Is prob the best offensive catcher in out system. I expect good things from him.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
Suzuki next Biggio?
The concept of playing Powell some at 1st and DH is good. I also think Suzuki is athletic and fast enough to learn another position — 3rd base
I've always thought that we could move zook to 3B or 2B....
….on occasion so as not to kill his knees. Plus he seems to hit better when he’s DHed or PHed, so maybe a IF position would be better on his bat
I think this is a lot harder than we might think
Other than Craig Biggio, has any catcher ever successfully become a 2B? I can’t think of a single one who did it successfully. The skill sets are pretty different — for instance, catchers don’t exactly need a lot of range. And 2B’s can get away with having average to mediocre arms. I guess the A’s put Scott Hemond at 2B and 3B from time to time, and his fielding numbers there weren’t disastrous (SSS). Maybe if he’d been able to hit he would have made it as a super-utility guy, or a 2B. Or maybe they just would have kept him at C.
3B is a slightly more common conversion. Johnny Bench played 3B after he’d destroyed his knees catching for a decade — but that was because he was a great hitter and the Reds wanted to keep his bat in the lineup and I suppose they didn’t have an obvious candidate to replace Rose. Despite being one of the best defensive catchers ever — soft hands, incredibly quick, cannon arm — he was a terrible 3B. And playing 3B is a lot easier than catching.
I mean, Dale Murphy started his career as a catcher, then played some 1B, then finally was put in CF and became a multiple gold-glove winner and 2-time MVP. But I think it would be a big, big mistake to look at any of our catchers and say, “Hey, he’s the solution to our CF problems.”
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
You mean Daric Murphy
If Donaldson looked like he could give you a really solid bat and be a good defensive catcher, it would almost make sense to think about moving Suzuki to 3B — except for the fact that a better solution in that scenario would just be to play Donaldson at 3B, Suzuki at C.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes on moving Donaldson
who sounds like a worse defensive catcher than Zook (who sets a pretty high bar).
Donaldson has caught 77 games this year (13 errors and 16 PBs, though good CS% (41%), and played 3B in only 15. So it doesn’t seem like the A’s are planning on moving him. And those E and PB numbers are really, really bad. I mean, at that rate Donaldson can be expected to commit an error or allow a passed ball nearly every series the team plays. Blech.
The argument against moving him could be (a) he’s bad at 3B and won’t get good enough to reach the majors there; or (b) he’s a more valuable trading chip if he can reach the majors as a catcher, and anyway it’s never a bad idea to have a good, young catcher in your system (in case Zook gets hurt or someone offers players we really want in return for him).
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Also he didn't really even start catching till his final year at Auburn
So it makes a lot of sense to give him time to improve behind the plate before sending him back to third base.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 4, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
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