2009 Fan Scouting Report
Measuring defense is really, really hard. One can criticize any of the popular defensive metrics. UZR, PMR, RZR, and TotalZone all have their warts (and don't even get me started on FRAA). Additionally, because both the sample sizes and the ranges in defensive skills tend to be small, the numbers for even the best defensive systems have to be taken with a grain of salt (that is, sabermetricians have to regress pretty heavily to the mean).
At the risk of bringing this entry down to Urban-esque levels of belligerent stupidity, we do need to get our noses out of the proverbial spreadsheets and watch some damn games. That's why we have scouts. But did you know that you're a scout, too? You watch every A's game, which means you observe the players more often than a scout does. And while your opinion by itself might be flawed or biased, we can put our opinions together and begin to come to a consensus. Our collective opinion is almost certainly better than our individual opinions. And there are lots and lots of A's fans hanging around here whose opinions are untapped.
And that's what the Fan Scouting Report is all about. Every year, Tom Tango asks thousands of fans to give their scouting reports by rating fielders in a variety of categories. Says Tom:
What I would like to do now is tap that pool of talent. I want you to tell me what your eyes see. I want you to tell me how good or bad a fielder is. Go down, and start selecting the team(s) that you watch all the time. For any player that you've seen play in at least 10 games in 2009, I want you to judge his performance in 7 specific fielding categories.
And best of all:
And, most importantly, do not, absolutely do not, look at any numbers. Don't look at his fielding percentage, range factor, zone rating, UZR, or anything else that someone else is telling you. I just want you to rely on your eyes. You are the scout. I need you to rely completely on your own observations.
Tom's been doing this every year for over five years now, so we're starting to get good historical data. In some cases the fans agree with the numbers. In other cases, they disagree. It's all very useful information, because it gathers the collective experience of you and I - the most experienced scouts of A's players in existence - to tell us what the numbers might not. The more opinions the better. As usual, the A's have one of the smallest response pools in the Fan Scouting report. For every evaluation of an A's player, there are *10* for the Rays. The Rays!
Read the instructions first...
...and fill out the Fan Scouting Report for the A's!
But this is important: be honest in your evaluations. This isn't a ballot-stuffing contest. This is an attempt to use the collective knowledge of the best-informed baseball fans our there to help us identify fielding skill. Thanks for helping Tango out in his project, which I think is the most creative and informative collective-wisdom projects in the blogosphere.
9 recs |
26 comments
Comments
Good stuff.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Aug 26, 2009 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fan Scouting Report? Well, actually the guy how sits two rows down from me and to the left
is pretty hot.
"We get two outs, and I was sure, and I had a plan, and I shook Tek off," Schilling said. "And I get a big 'What if?' for the rest of my life."
by Imaseasonticketholder on Aug 26, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

2009 Fan Scouting Report
by salb918 on Aug 26, 2009 2:21 PM PDT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Aug 26, 2009 4:02 PM PDT reply actions 11 recs
Not to start a flamewar/fuss,
but I have no clue why this comment was flagged. No clue at all. Admittedly I don’t know what TV show/movie it’s from, but I just find the three-second clip hilarious even without context. Not knowing the backstory to the show/movie, I can’t see why this three-second clip is offensive on its own and I can’t see why anyone would flag it. It’s easy to skip past these if they aren’t your cup of tea, and they don’t directly target a community member.
Personally, every time xbh posts one of these, in any thread, they make me laugh. And I often rec them.
Again, not trying to start a flamewar or controversy here, but I do enjoy when xbh shares these, and if they are offending someone, I’d be interested in learning why.
You can email me if you prefer.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 31, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to me like the joke was just complete shock at sal posting something on AN
Don’t see how anyone could take offense to that.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
by JediLeroy on Sep 1, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it must have been flagged by someone who has a problem with me, or with Italian Spiderman.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Sep 2, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
in any case i’ll take a 10:1 rec/flag ratio.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Sep 2, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hasn't FRAA been reformulated this season?
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Aug 26, 2009 5:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean?
You do that and pretty soon your world turns into some kind of crazy postmodernist dystopian nightmare where nothing is actually true anymore. - Paul Thomas
by designatedforassignment on Aug 26, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they were going to change the way they calculated it to include PBP data
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Aug 26, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Hit fx data?
You do that and pretty soon your world turns into some kind of crazy postmodernist dystopian nightmare where nothing is actually true anymore. - Paul Thomas
by designatedforassignment on Aug 27, 2009 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this really achieve Tango's goal?
You watch every A’s game, which means you observe the players more often than a scout does. And while your opinion by itself might be flawed or biased, we can put our opinions together and begin to come to a consensus.
This is most true when fans are coming to their opinions independently, but an internet forum of fans dedicated to a single team seems like a poor place to get independent opinions. Fans here base their opinions of players on
1) their own observations,
2) the observations of other forum participants,
3) the observations of scouts printed elsewhere, and
4) fielding metrics.
A team-based fan forum seems to be the place where (2)-(4) will be the most prominent. Most people here have seen the same numbers, they’ve seen the same scouting reports from BA/BP/Sickels/Law, and they’ve had their opinions converge due to constant dialogue with other participants here.
I realize this is the best way to increase the sample for the survey, but it also seems to negate much of the value to project was intended to create.
by Danny on Aug 27, 2009 9:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is why I don't participate
I don’t see enough games and read far to many stats to have a objective opinion
You do that and pretty soon your world turns into some kind of crazy postmodernist dystopian nightmare where nothing is actually true anymore. - Paul Thomas
by designatedforassignment on Aug 27, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
somehow I think Nico would be excellent at this poll
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Aug 27, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the only real danger is #2
The sort of people who pay a lot of attention to #3 and especially #4 I think are the same people who would respect the methodology and either ignore those factors or, if they’re like me and DFA and just don’t see enough games, not participate at all.
Even #2 is a danger only to the extent that it’s unconscious. If I think Ryan Sweeney looks like a great CF I’m going to vote my “conscience” regardless whether everyone else on AN tells me he’s not (or vice versa). I can think of plenty of examples where individuals on AN have stubbornly held on to their beliefs about a player in spite of a strong consensus opinion against them.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Aug 29, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anytime we get Danny to come out of his shell, it's a happy day for me.
One of my all-time favorite ANers. I hope you and Devo will swing back by more often.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 31, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes when I want to get smarter about baseball,
I just click on Danny’s name and read his comment log.
Similarly, when I want to increase my vocabulary, I click on Iglew’s.
When I want to laugh ‘til I cry, I look up 74mk’s. (Where are you old friend??? RIP)
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 31, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hes at the speak easy last time i checked
The Halos announcers sound like frat boys at a kegger… Ken Korach calls a game like a grown-ass man - Emperor Nobody
by designatedforassignment on Aug 31, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, I am cleary not the target
I have seen 5 A’s games in person this year, and zero on TV (I do not have cable). I have listened to most of the games, but it’s a bit hard to judge a player’s range for myself based on Vince being really excited or not. So I look forward to reading what others think about the defensive chops of the A’s.
by el generico on Aug 27, 2009 12:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, not doing it.
I listen to more games than I watch, so it wouldn’t be objective of me.
But definitely thanks for posting this.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
by Blicks on Aug 29, 2009 6:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for doing this, Sal
How’s the family/East Coast life/your young one?
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 31, 2009 5:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Six defense-related observations, meant to fuel discussion:
1. I’ve been disappointed in Hairston’s arm. Like, really disappointed. I’ll give him a mulligan on his range, since he’s dealing with a nagging hamstring. But I’ve read no negative reports on his arm health, and he’s working with a small caliber pistol there. I’ve seen too many meek, pop-gun throws to count in the last two months. Enough so that I’d call him exclusively a left fielder, and perhaps at most the emergency CF if Swooney was out.
2. Pennington has a rocket. He’s also yet to make an error in his first 25 games, knock on wood/computer screen. He looks awkward turning DPs some times, and his range looks at least average. FanGraphs agrees with both of those observations, albeit in an extremely small sample (his DP’s grade out slightly below average; his range is almost exactly average).
3. Adam Kennedy has lazy footwork at third base, and I think that contributes to his high error total. He’s airmailed a few throws over there, including one a few days ago, simply because he didn’t line up his feet before throwing. His approach on routine ground balls occasionally looks lazy to me, and he’s gotten burned by that more than a few times.
4. Been impressed with Powell’s throwing behind the plate in the very limited sample size I’ve seen. Obviously his last start, in which he threw out two runners on the basepaths, was very impressive. Quick release, on target throws. Very impressive for a big dude who only gets behind the plate once a week.
5. Barton begins to stretch for balls at first before they ever even are on the way. He’ll get burned by this one day on an offline throw, if he hasn’t already. He’s already suffered a DL stint with that comically extended stretch. Is he really gaining that much by it? It just comes across as “false hustle” to me. Perhaps that’s too harsh. Reminds me of Carney Lansford wearing his hat on the tip of his head so that it would fall off when he was chasing foul balls at third.
6. Sweeney doesn’t look as quick as I remember him being last year. I’m wondering if he’s dealing with a leg issue that we (or maybe just me?) haven’t heard about. He doesn’t looks explosive at all when he’s chasing after a flyball to right. I’ve got no other evidence for that subjective view, although he’s been a worse basestealer this year, which might support my theory. Admittedly, I’m reaching.
Thoughts? Anybody care to agree/disagree with any of those, or have some individual player thoughts of your own?
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 31, 2009 5:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
In a SSS #3 rings very true to me
As for #1 a bum quad could really hurt your ability to push off and get your legs into your throws which is what I believe Hairspray has.
The Halos announcers sound like frat boys at a kegger… Ken Korach calls a game like a grown-ass man - Emperor Nobody
by designatedforassignment on Aug 31, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs























