$17.5M off the books after this year?
by batterbatter on Aug 2, 2009 3:24 PM PDT
Email
Print
Not sure if I got the numbers right, but with Duke, Springer, Nomar, Crosby, and Giambi's salaries all FAs after this year, that's $17.5M coming off the books. After such an awful season, forgive me if I'm already salivating on which quality FA we can entice with out $17.5M for next season. I think we definitely need a front line quality starting P to guide our young ums. Anyone knows which pitchers will be FAs after the season?
170 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think
the last thing that need’s addressing is the starting staff. We’ll be 6-deep once Outman comes back and they’re all young and talented so there’s no need for an outside-hire. What really needs to be addressed is the offense, obviously. A nice CFer and maybe even a 3Bman would go a long way towards trying to fix the offense.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Outman's not coming back any time soon,
Cahill and Mazzaro are VERY rough, and Gio is a complete unknown long-term. I’d say bringing in a veteran starting pitcher would be a mighty fine idea — just as it would have been this year.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Totally agree here.
If the team looks to contend, it needs pitching depth.
And even if it isn’t looking to contend, its a massive waste of valuable service time to keep Cahill and/or Mazzaro up when they’re both clearly overmatched, especially Cahill (since he was up all of 2009 and will be arb eligible one year before Mazzy will).
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I disagree
The young guys are only going to get better and we still have some options in the minors like Simmons who I expect to improve as this season goes on and as the next one begins. Outman could also be back by mid-year next season so he’s not incredibly far off. As for signing a pitcher, they are far too expensive on the FA market and if you manage to nab one that’s not expensive then I’m going to guess that he’s not all that great and not worth taking up a rotation spot.
I still say that offense should be priority numero uno and that adding a SP should be the last thing we do.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
where are you reading he could be back by mid-2010?
TJ surgery is usually 18 months.
The recovery time is actually 12-18 months
So if it is indeed 12 months then he would be back by mid-2010. What’s working in his favor is that he’s young and says he feels great already post-surgery. It’ll take too long to try and find the article but I’m pretty sure he says he hopes to be back quickly.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
What works against him is that
if he “says he feels great already post-surgery,” then he’s right on the same trajectory as Eric Chavez!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I feel like sooner or later we'll have to pull a Rowling
..And refer to Eric Chavez as He Who Shall Not Be Playing.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Yeah, you're right.
What I meant was that it’s almost always 18 months before they get their control back, so Outman will probably be in the minors next year if he’s pitching at all.
I guess
I’m just trying to be optimistic that an injury will actually go as planned for once and that the best case scenario will play out rather than the need to re-attach the arm and get three other surgeries to go along with it. Stupid I know…
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
The starting pitching is that deep if Cahill and Mazzaro advance quickly and if Gio succeeds.
The rotation could be very good to very bad depending on these breaks. I’d feel more comfortable with a SP addition.
A good point was brought up the other day – all this freed up payroll might not be used for ML salaries next time around. It could be 9–10M they’re playing with instead of 17–18M. The next 2 months will be critical for identifying 2010 weaknesses further. Though I do think the A’s are feeling alright about their internal OF and bullpen options next year.
Final 2 months: Does Wallace look ready for a full campaign at 3B in 2010? Do Mazzaro/Cahill look ready? Does Pennington bounce back from his tough start? Does Rajai keep up his pace on offense and defense?
About Right if You Don't Count Cabrera or Holliday's Contract
Crosby: 5.25 million
Giambi: 5.25 million (4 mill + 1.25 buyout)
Duchscherer: 3.9 million
Springer: 3.3 million
Nomar: 1 million
Kennedy: prorated league minimum
Holliday: 13.5 million
Cabrera: 4 million
Opening day payroll is going to be WAY lower. We only have 19.25 million committed toward 2010 (not counting arbitration players) and 3.5 million committed beyond that as Chavez and Ellis come off the books.
Matt Abedi
Arbitration players next year...
19.25 is our base and then the following players are up for arbitration…
- Jack Cust (made 2.8 million this season)
- Michael Wuertz (made 1.1million this season)
- Santiago Cassilla (made 420k this season)
- Chris Denorfia (made 420k this season)
- Rajai Davis (made 410k this season)
- Dana Eveland (made 410k this season)
I have a feeling Denorfia and Casilla might not be offered arbitration.
Matt Abedi
Eveland and Denorfia also won't accumulate enough service time to be arb eligible next year
since they both spent most of 2009 in AAA.
Casilla should be non-tendered.
If you’re going 40-60-80 arb model, Cust shouldn’t get as big a raise as he would’ve had he kept 2008 numbers going, but he will get a raise.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Arb predictions
Cust will make somewhere between $3 and 3.5M. Wuertz probably about $2M. Davis maybe about $1M. Casilla not more than $500K. So about $26M total payroll commitment.
If Casilla only makes $500k we shouldn't non-tender him
He’s not great, but there are worse relievers
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Disagree
He’s extremely inconsistent. I think the team is better off bringing up Jeff Gray or one of the other minor league relievers. Relievers are fungible, and inconsistent relievers the most fungible. Bringing back Casilla is a waste of money and a waste of roster space.
There has to be someone interested in giving up something for Casilla
Just like we got Wuertz from the Cubs. Casilla has upside and great stuff, he just has other issues. Giving him away for free as opposed to spending $500k on him is a waste of resources. Worst case, we can try to stuff him through waivers and send him to AAA, and if someone claims him and we can’t work out a deal we can just let him go.
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Now that you mention it, maybe not
He’ll be one day short of 3 years’ service time. Three years would make him eligible for sure. Being one day short of 3 years would make him a super-duper Super Two, but now that I think of it, I know there’s a requirement that a player spend a certain amount of time on either the active roster or the major league roster (DL included) for Super Two status to apply. If it’s the former rather than the latter, he wouldn’t be arb-eligible. Late for work, no time to look it up right now…
Let 'em walk
Cust should not be offered arbitration. I know the guy gets a ton of love on this website for his “high” OBP, but he’s basically a glorified softball player. He’ll make more than $4 million if we offer him arbitration, which isn’t outrageous for a player of his caliber, but I’d rather just cut ties with the guy and move on with our young crop of OFs (which is admittedly thin).
We should offer arb to Wuertz and Davis. Other than that, we should let the rest of the clowns on your list go — Casilla looks like he’s finished; Denorfia is AAA filler; and Eveland has no confidence and can’t pitch at the MLB level.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Aug 3, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
And yet, even in a down year, the "glorified softball player" is the second best regular hitter on the team (according to wOBA)
Behind only a 33 year old having a career year.
Huh, if Jack Cust is what makes a glorified softball player, then I would like more of those on this team plz.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
KEG at 2B!!!!!!!! WOOOT!!!!!!!!
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 3, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
ya its not Cust's OBP but his OPS thats been first, first and second the last three years on the A's that I give him love for
he has one down year, compared to his 850-900 OPS his first two years, not compared to the rest of the team, he leads the team, again, for the the last three seasons in a row in HR and RBI, he hits half his HR at the coliseum and you want to replace that with what exactly? Buck and Sweeny’s combined 6 hr and 660 OPS? And not only should we not play him, we should just dump him. Please.
If it wasn’t for Jack Fing Cust the A’s over the last three years
would have been well beyond putrid. As much as he is struggling this year there is still a good chance he will lead the team in OPS, HR and RBI’s the next few years if given the chance. You may hate the teams offense, but don’t hate the teams best offensive player, which is undisputedly Jack Cust.
don’t look now but Raj Davis is third in OPS on the A’s and everyone wanted to dump his ass two months ago also.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
Also,
Even in this down year, where Cust fucked around with a horrible new approach for half a season, his numbers aren’t that bad. He swung more often, and his results were putrid for half the year. Now he’s gotten back to his old approach, and his OBP is all the way back up to .345, from .315. Not bad.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
Why are there quotation marks around high?
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
I'm not totally clear on what you're counting here.
It looks like you’re talking about 2009 payroll obligations that will be gone in 2010.
But in that case you’re counting Giambi’s buyout in the wrong direction. $4 million is the amount on the books for 2009. $1.25 million is the amount that will be on the books for 2010. The net money freed up for Giambi is $2.75 million, not $5.25 million.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Honestly, the way he's played Giambi should pay the A's to buy him out.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
BTW, the list of 2010 free agents can be found
here. As you’ll see, for SP quite a bit of suck. But…I would LOVE to see the A’s bring Huddy back. It’s not a “get the band together” thing — I always thought he was a tremendous competitor, he would be terrific for the young pitchers, and I think he probably can still get hitters out at a “middle of the rotation” level, which would be a great fit for this team right now.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Love THIS idea!!
"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?" Yogi Berra
by BERRYJO on Aug 2, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
According to the list, “Benji” Molina is a free agent.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He hits like a dog
And runs the bases like a building
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not saying we should sign him. I’m just pointing out that it’s “Benji” that is available.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Out of all the guys who've left
Hudson and Tejada were the only ones that I felt awful about. I know Tim has had some health issues in Atlanta but if he’s healthy I’d love to see him come back. He could teach these young guns about grit and be a leader which is what this team needs.
I know many will disagree but I’d love to see Miggy back as well. This team misses the fire he had and and it’s not like the A’s have anything of real value at either SS or 3B.
I love the idea of bringing Tejada back if someone doesn't get stupid
and guarantee multiple years. I do 1 year + option but that’s about it.
What I’m worried about is that the Astros won’t offer him arbitration, since he’s making like 15MM this year and he WILL accept if offered. Considering that Scutaro and his career year will almost definitely cost a draft pick as Type A, and the value of draft picks/prospects has shot through the roof, that makes Tejada immediately more attractive. This could be the Orlandos/Renteria situation part 2. Just makes him more likely to get 2 years, which is a HUGE no.
Although Tejada might not get the multi years if teams see him as more of a 2B/3B than SS. And then I hope the A’s jump on it and reel him in.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
We obviously need a shortstop, so bringing in Tejada is not a bad idea at all for what you have suggested and that’s a one-year deal with possibly an option.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
would Tejada really be a viable SS option for next year?
I’d say all he’s fit for now is 3B. Then again, you could have some sort of Wallace/Tejada/Pennington hyrda manning the left side of the infield. …hmmmm
Is he much different defensively from Cabrera, i.e.,
Knows how to play it really well, has lost range and only plays it ok but still gets it done pretty well for a guy who can get you a hit?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would expect him to be below average in the field.
Overall, the past 3 seasons, he’s been -4 runs added with his glove. His UZR is a bit of a roller coaster ride, and I don’t know if 2008 (9 runs added) is fluky due to sample or something else.
He’d only be a good signing if he’s playing close to an even SS, as he’s transitioning back to the AL and will also see his offense take a hit from playing in the coliseum. I’d worry a lot about his bat, as his HR/FB is in serious decline… I could see him putting up a rather anemic batting line here. An OPS of .700 with poor defense wouldn’t be fun.
It certainly wasn't from April-June 2009!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That I actually agree with
Huddy on a 2-year deal is perfectly fine IMO. Anybody else on any deal that isn’t a no-brainer is a big no-no in my book.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
I'm wondering what can be in the bullpen. Does anyone else feel like I do?
I have not been impressed with several of the folks we have down there now…..I used to think our bullpen was a strength of this team. I have not felt that at all this season. Times past I didn’t fear giving the game up to the pen – this year it’s been a roll of the dice!
"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?" Yogi Berra
by BERRYJO on Aug 2, 2009 4:10 PM PDT reply actions
Should Be Getting Joey Devine Back
Which will be huge for us. Jay Marshall (remember him?) has been lights out since we put him back in the minors. Jeff Gray is also having a career year in Sacramento.
Matt Abedi
Don't forget Brad Kilby...
Who’s even better than Marshall.
exactly.
Bailey/Wuertz/Ziegler and maybe Devine should be your primary core. Breslow in a LOOGY role isn’t bad at all. Then non-tender Casila (arb eligible) and have the back of the bullpen as EGon/Gray/random AAA guy.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Excuse my ignorance-
But I’m dying here- what the heck is a ‘LOOGY’, asides from something you don’t want spat at you?
I’m tired of waiting for someone else to ask. ;)
Dont blow Bailey.
Ahem.
Matt Holliday + Tim Hudson. Then call it an offseason.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I wouldn't mind
signing Beltre or Figgins to a 3 or 4 year deal. Bringing back Huddy would have merit, too.
I strongly doubt that Holliday would want to come back here.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
Yeah, I was mostly joking.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
3 or 4 year deal to Figgins? That has so many ways to backfire.
Figgins is a speedster. Who knows how he will age. If he loses his speed, he sucks as a player.
Oh. His numbers are clearly dependent on his BABIP, which fluctuates wildly over the last 3-4 years. If the slegnA or anyone else throw a 4 year deal at Figgins, I’m betting that’s an awful signing soon, or for at least 2 of those 4 years. He’s an elite defender, which is also where a lot of his value lies, and he is a really good player, but his versatility is going to make him insanely overrated, especially since the A’s are quintessentially set at 2/3 positions that he plays at.
Beltre’s injured right now; I can’t see him getting more than 1 year this offseason. And I really, really think that if the M’s don’t offer him arbitration (if they do, Beltre will most likely accept), the A’s should be the ones giving him the 1 year, “prove yourself,” deal (but then would he accept?)
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Good points
I reasoned 3 or 4 years simply because I figured that’s what the market would bear. Can’t sign Figgins for 2 years when the Angels are offering to re-sign him for 4.
But you’re right, of course. He’s a risk to see his production fall off a cliff over that time span.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Aug 2, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Two Words: Kenny Williams
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 2, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Don’t shoot me, but I’d love to get Chone Figgins.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 4:25 PM PDT reply actions
To play where?
I’m not so convinced we need a 3rd baseman next season. Wallace and, if he hits in AAA, Cardenas, both have a good shot at making the team next season.
If Chone can play short though, sure.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
odds are at least one of those guys will either suck, get hurt, or both
As much as I’ve hated Figgins over the years, he would be a good sign. Of course it all depends on the deal, but I think I’m officially on the versatility bandwagon.
"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane
by pickinmachine on Aug 2, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Well they obviously won't turn into Pujols and hit immediately
But you give them the chance to play and develop.
As DFA just mentioned, Donaldson’s got a shot as well.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
if they can't hit then you send them down to AAA to develop
It’s a huge risk to start penciling in any starting positions with rookies, without any legitimate alternatives.
If the rookies don’t work out, the A’s are pretty much screwed, and another season is lost.
"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane
by pickinmachine on Aug 2, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
And if they do hit
Figgins sits on the bench?
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
He can fill in for the injured guy
Or for the other injured guy.
And if all else fails, he can always platoon with the guy who is inexplicably hitting .150 points below his projected average.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yep
or trade him. If this miracle situation should arise, it would be a good problem to have.
"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane
by pickinmachine on Aug 2, 2009 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
So does Donaldson as well.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 2, 2009 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
To play where?
He can play anywhere.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
No he really cant.
Hes bad defensively anywhere but third and we have viable 3b CF and 2B options, the only places he can play.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 2, 2009 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, let’s call up Desme and Donaldson right away and go 60-102!
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Options
Options at 3b
Kennedy if resigned
Wallace
Cardenas
Chen
Everidge
Options in CF
Hariston
Davis
Sweeney
Cunningham
Brown
Denorfia
Wow you’re right we shouldn’t even attempt to exhaust the five options in between signing Figgins to a excessive free agent contract and calling up Deseme and Donaldson.
If someone had a straw man on fire gif I would like to employ it here. But alas I haven’t found one.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 2, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
You’re right.
I give.
Figgins sucks. Everidge, Chen and Cardenas are better.
I don’t want to argue about a guy that won’t even be considered by management.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions
It's interesting how DFA called you out on using a straw man and you respond with....another straw man?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I guess that I just don’t get it.
By the way, I’m going to Lenscrafters tomorrow.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Relax, no one here is attacking you (though admittedly, you were the one who brought the snark first)
And no one is saying Figgins is a bad player right now. But since, as DFA pointed out,
1) He’ll probably command a long contract that will overpay him for a career year.
2) His two most important assets (defense and speed) would probably decline over the length of the contract.
3) He’ll probably experience age related decline as well, being on the wrong side of 30 for much of the contract.
4) Plus, you have to consider the fact that the A’s have numerous options at 3rd + CF (no, not just Desme/Donaldson) over the next few years.
signing him might be a rather sketchy idea.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I just said that I’d love to get Chone Figgins. I’m not saying that I’d be willing to sign him at whatever cost.
There are only two real options I see at third base for 2010 and those options are Adam Kennedy (if he is re-signed) and Brett Wallace.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
In many ways,
Figgins is not that different from the Furcal situation. One was a SS with back surgery issues, the other not, but…
In Furcal’s case the A’s were looking at overpaying for a likely declining player by year 4, maybe even year 3, in order to fill needs in years 1 and 2, and they were prepared to commit about $9mil/year for 4 years to take that chance.
With Figgins it wouldn’t be that different — you’d pay for 2 good years, maybe an iffy year 3, likely an albatross year 4, and either it’s worth it overall or it isn’t. I’m not saying which one, I’m just pointing out that the A’s have been there recently and they decided to go after the player on a 4-year commitment.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The difference is that Furcal is a shortstop and the A's at that time had absolutely no other viable internal options at short.
Which pretty much made Furcal a player the A’s had to at least try to sign. Now, the A’s have a combination of options in young, close to ready prospects and place-holding veterans at both 3rd and CF, which makes Figgins less of a necessity.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Good analogy Nico
Though lensecrafters’ explanation of why Furcal’s position makes him more valuable to the A’s is true. My problem with the Figgins 4/36 which I think he could definately get is that I am not willing to sacrafice payroll flexibility in 3 or 4 years for helping us contend next year. I would much rather have the finacial flexibility to keep a Cahill when he starts geting really expensive due to him being good and increasing arbitration awards.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 2, 2009 11:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It's kind of why the Furcal deal could have backfired,
and why I think Beane was wise not to go higher with his offer even had Furcal been serious about signing.
The end result of signing Furcal would likely have been a decent player while the team isn’t that good anyway and an albatross when the team is ready to contend and needs a reliable SS.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Did someone invite me to the party?
not a gif though, i know.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Figgins is better in 2010 than Desme and Donaldson. That’s how I know. It’s quite simple.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope he struggles and goes into another slump that the A's promote him through, then figures it out in MLB. ; )
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
I haven’t thought about it from that point of view.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 3, 2009 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions
we could spend 15 mill on FA and still be around a 45 million payroll next year
I would rather committ to two above average guys for 7-8 mill than get 4 average 4million types with the payroll as low as it is and getting lower still the next year. I don’t think we are going to have an easy time of getting any decent hitter to WANT to come to Oakland. It kills the value of the next contract they get and they will probably end up traded.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
Next Year
We could use a veteran capable starter. I’m not sure who yet. Also, the A’s need a SS and an offensive Outfielder. As far as the bullpen, Bailey, Ziggy, Wuertz, and Breslow are pretty good, two more relievers at least one a lefty would help.
Sure
Let’s sign Brad Kilby or Jay Marshall for the lefty, and Jeff Gray for the righty!
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn I was trying to be incognito
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
A couple of things to think about...
First, the A’s are going to lose money this year so they may not spend the savings on payroll.
Second, if the A’s most likely won’t be competing for anything next year, so maybe they could even save the possible free agent splurge until the winter of 2010. I don’t know who the FAs will be then.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
luxury tax
Factor in the share of luxury tax the A’s will be getting and I think Wolff is actually gonna make a profit for putting an awful product out on the field this year.
The A's could easily wind up competing
Everything depends on Mazzaro, Cahill and Gio making the kind of strides that Anderson made this year, and Braden made last year. If those strides are met for two of the three, the team will definitely be competitive.
At least for the top halves of innings at home, and bottom halves on the road
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
unfortunatly no. the team just has way too many offensive holes right now to be competitive .
I think we need to develop a really good hitter by next year, sign a good 7-8 million FA for 2-3 years, and then follow that up in 2011 with the same things to really be competitive, in 2011. Bringing guys up or getting FA’s to be league avg is not going to do much for the teams O. We need a few stars to try and score at least an average amount of runs to support a hopefully dominant pitching staff at that point.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
After all the times I've objected when someone
assumes that the team making more profit will automatically result in higher payroll, I supposed it’s my duty to point out the same logic goes the other way.
The amount you spend on payroll is whatever amount you think is worth the investment. Whether the company had an operating loss last year doesn’t have that big an effect on that calculus.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
When Wolff/Beane decide they want to try and win again...
…they’re going to have to take the risk and invest some money with no guarantee of a positive financial return. They’re going to have to take the chance and put an exciting team on the field again and give the casual fan a reason to want to come back and spend money.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
This, although I don't know whether I target Braden just yet
2009 could be a career year (although, to be fair, he still put up solid FIPs in earlier years though) I wait till after the 2010 season and offer whoever the two best pitchers on the A’s are (average of ’09 and ’10) extensions.
Now we all know I want to extend my mancrush, King Brett, because he’s just awesome. I don’t know. But the A’s do need to look at extending one or more of their young pitchers, just that I’d think after the 2010 season is when to start pinpointing who should be targetted.
Suzuki should definitely be extended though. Without a doubt.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I pretty much support not extending any pitcher with any injury history
You’re lucky enough if you can get 6 healthy years out of a starting pitcher. Braden seems like a good bet to be healthy going forward, but he did already have arm issues in the minors. Anderson, unfortunately, has “this owie or that owie” written all over him. I don’t think either is a great candidate for an extension unless they accept something well under market value in exchange for security.
But in general, the only pitchers I’d offer extensions to are guys like Dan Haren, who have no injury history, great mechanics, and are special talents.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I endorse this statement.
Signed,
DFA
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 2, 2009 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, totally agree with you here.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Braden's a special case.
He was hurt in the minors because of his screwball, which he doesn’t throw anymore.
I wouldn't object to an extension with Braden if it was a team-friendly contract,
partly because an affordable SP with multiple years left on his contract is a very valuable trade chip anyway. So it’s not like the A’s would be making an 8 year commitment to Braden instead of a 6 year commitment; they’d just have that option. You swap the injury risk for the fact that if he’s healthy, you get him at under market value for a couple more years.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
+...8!
Get it?
:|
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 8:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I concur on Suzuki
The man is a tank, I would be very sad to lose a catcher that can call a great game and actually hit.
I was sadly a bit happy he didn’t make the all-stars- last thing we need is for Billy to trade him.
Dont blow Bailey.
Chavez insurance policy??????????
How much money do you think the A’s are getting back from the insurance company for that train wreck?
He was in a train wreck?
Man, the guy has no luck at all.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I got reminiscent so I looked at Chavez numbers in the early 2000's.
I almost wanted to shed a tear.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
There should be some disclaimer warning before clicking on the link.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Warning: May Contain Content Not Suitable For Children
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wheaties, the breakfast of champions!
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Lets look at it this way
Who is a lock to be on the team next year (barring trade, of course).
C1 Kurt Suzuki
1B
2B Mark Ellis
3B
SS
LF
RF
CF Scott Harrison
DH Jack Cust
C2 Landon Powell
CF Ryan Sweeney
BN
BN
SP Dallas Braden
SP Trevor Cahill
SP Brett Anderson
SP Vin Mazzaro
SP
RP Andrew Bailey
RP Brad Ziegler
RP Joey Devine
RP Mike Wuertz
RP Craig Breslow
RP
RP
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
Now, who in the organization do we have available to plug into those slots, who might be ready next year?
First Base:
Daric Barton
Brett Wallace
Chris Carter
Tommy Everidge
Short Stop:
Cliff Pennington
Gregorio Petit
Third Base:
The Remnants of Eric Chavez
Brett Wallace
Adrian Cardenas
Outfield:
Ryan Sweeney
Travis Buck
Aaron Cunningham
Rajai Davis
Starting Pitcher:
Gio Gonzalez
Josh Outman
Dana Eveland
James Simmons
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
Can we use any of those players to fill those holes in the team next year?
What is left over is what we will either have to trade for or sign as free agents.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
Can we just make a 2010 rosterbation thread?
Zonis is the king of rosterbation
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see why Gonzalez isn't a lock at this point
He’s progressing very nicely. He will be in the big leagues. His last two starts he’s looked like a completely different pitcher; he’s confident in his stuff and uses it to get people out. He still has some walk issues, but so does Chad Billingsley.
I would be surprised if Adam Kennedy weren’t resigned, at the very least as a bench bat.
My picks for the empty spots:
1B Daric Barton
3B Brett Wallace
SS Cliff Pennington
LF Aaron Cunningham
RF Travis Buck
BN Adam Kennedy
BN Rajai Davis
SP Gio Gonzalez
RP Jeff Gray
RP Brad Kilby
I don’t expect Outman OR Devine back by the start of the season. Maybe me not including Chavez is wishful thinking, but I’m hoping he retires.
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
This is what I want to see:
C — Kurt Suzuki
1B — Brett Wallace
2B — Adrian Cardenas (if he’s ready and if he isn’t, go with Mark Ellis)
3B — Adam Kennedy
SS — Free agent signing
LF — Aaron Cunningham
CF — Rajai Davis
RF — Travis Buck
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather see
C – Kurt Suzuki
1B – Albert Pujols
2B – Chase Utley
3B – Kevin Youkilis
SS – Hanley Ramirez
LF – Ryan Braun
CF – Curtis Granderson
RF – Carl Crawford
DH – Justin Morneau
But alas, it is only possible on my Xbox 360. Sigh…
I'd rather have
C – Kurt Suzuki
1B – Albert Pujols
2B – Chase Utley
3B – Evan Longoria
SS – Hanley Ramirez
LF – Ryan Braun
CF – Grady Sizemore
RF – Carl Crawford
DH – Justin Morneau
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
I like all of that, but I’d rather have Justin Upton in right field.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 3, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
What most remarkable to consider
is that this lineup, with Kevin Gregg as its closer, would still only finish at .500.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What if the starting rotation consists of Roy Halladay, Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Dan Haren and Josh Beckett?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 3, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Still .500, strangely.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Mazzaro and Cahill are locks like Gallagher was
At the very least, they’ll have to show up for spring training in shape with good attitudes before they’re going to be assured of anything.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
We don't know, but something sure went down.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
his 8+ ERA in 6 games didnt' help matters. He puts up a sub 3 the A's don't care about his attitude.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
But he didn't even make the rotation out of spring training
Whatever happened went down before those 6 games.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and he had 6 games to play his way onto the team afterwords.
he blew it. He gave the team no reason to keep him with the other options available. His SSS this year just reinforced what the A’s thought about his 5.88 ERA last year. Either his skills weren’t there yet or his mental makeup wasn’t there to take advantage of his skills yet.
Same with Buck. He was given 100 AB’s to change the A’s minds about his play and earn his way onto the team, and he had an OPS of 642. The A’s moved on with other players they felt were more ready at this time. One of them was Davis.
I don’t think they were in the doghouse for anything other than their weak play. There is one easy way to get out of the doghouse no matter what you did to get there. Play better when given the opportunity.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
See OmahaHi, I see it a bit differently
They were in the doghouse prior to their weak play, which means they were “in the doghouse for anything other than their weak play.”
They then failed to get out of the doghouse through performance in their somewhat limited opportunities, thus reinforcing their doghouse status. So yes, they could have played their way out of the doghouse, but playing badly was not the only cause of getting in there in the first place.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Mazzaro is crap-arro
since his hot start. I think he’s definitely odd man out. Cahill, Anderson, Outman and Braden all appear on the right track, and at least Gio alternates between brilliant outings and awful ones. Mazzaro has been terrible the last few weeks.
I’m just a casual fan, but one reason that i’m not ruling out Vin yet is because he looks like he has good-great stuff. He just can’t control it yet. He leaves far too many hittable pitches right in player’s wheel-house. If he can improve his control, I see a very solid #3 starter.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
Possibly cheap reclamation projects...........
Hank Blalock is having a crappy year besides his HRs, if we can get him on a one year “bridge to C.Carter” deal he might be worth a shot.
Troy Glaus: The Cardinals couldn’t even give him away. I’m sure he’d like to prove his health and rebuild his value somewhere (at 1B for us).
Possibly kick the tires on Bedard, Hudson, Kelvim Escobar, Randy Johnson, even Harden if we felt suicidal.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
Nah I think the DBacks will take up his option
It’s an 8 mil contract with a 2 mil buy out.
Surely he’s worth 6 mil to them.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
There's a lot of tension between Webb and the Dbacks
over Webb’s disgruntlement of how things were handled this year. That could potentially have an impact.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't think Escobar will ever again have the stamina to start
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Randy Johnson’s arm may basically fall off by then as well.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 2, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Sever it at the shoulder
“Sever your leg please, sir…it’s the greatest day”
Mega bonus points if anyone knows what that’s from.
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 2, 2009 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I still can’t figure it out.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 3, 2009 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Please look up for the Blubbos Satalite Camera
{click}
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
+Mega Bonus Points
WordUpThome: I CANNOT BELIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT BUTTER
Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 3, 2009 12:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Bedard wouldn't be the worst idea...
Depending on price and length.
Bedard is notoriously undemonstrative.
If he were to have a slump, there would be a large crowd here screaming about how he “doesn’t care” and “doesn’t want to be here”.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
One difference is that Holliday isn't actually known
to be aloof in the clubhouse, whereas Bedard actually is. Bedard is probably one of those players who is a tick worse than his stats due to “clubhouse intangible” factors, while Huddy is one of those players who is a tick better due to his influence/leadership.
So while I’d rather have Bedard if he’s going to pitch way better than Hudson, if Bedard is going to pitch just a little better than Hudson, I’ll take Huddy hands down.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
IF YOU LACK CHARISMA, YOU DON'T CARE
did you not get that memo?
I defer to you on this, given your user name
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Infield thoughts...
I’d like to see Cardenas move back to 2B where I hear he’s most comfortable… he seems to hit better as a 2B than as a 3B… perhaps a mental block, but still. Then move Ellis back to SS where he played originally and is still a great defender and hope that Wallace can stick at third while Barton holds down 1st until Carter or Doolittle are ready.
We may still need a FA shortstop when Ellis’ contract runs up the following year… but he can be a solid veteran influence in the infield without blocking a prospect or significantly downgrading the Defense. We’d deal with Weeks down the line when he’s ready… I don’t consider a prospect as a 25-man roster problem until he’s succeeded at double-A.
Thoughts?
Giambi was safe at the plate!!!!
Ellis didn't have the arm for SS before his shoulder injuries
There’s no way he could handle SS now. Not for the range part, but his arm strength just won’t cut it.
I didn't see him play in college or the minors,
but he was a shortstop back then. Was he a bad shortstop?
And yeah, there’s no way post-2004 Ellis is handling shortstop throws.
Prithee, be not perturbed by yon third bagger.
Ellis a no-go at SS
Ellis can’t play SS after his arm injury a few years ago. Not a chance.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness which the nature of the particular subject admits." - The Not Big Aristotle
by Uncle Charlie on Aug 3, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
so the infield for '10 would look like...
1B- Barton
2B- Cardenas
SS- Ellis
3B- Wallace
With Kennedy spotting all of them and Everidge or Cust at DH? Dunno about the DH thing… Infield interests me more…
Giambi was safe at the plate!!!!
As long as our pitchers make sure not to allow any ground balls to the left side
we’re good to go!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That is
an awesome photo. “I said, does he look like a bitch?” But my favorite Samuel L. line from that movie is, “That is a tasty burger!”
Please extend Suzuki, he is our only ray of hope on the diamond! (outside of the bright spots on the pitcher’s mound)
I think they should try to bring Huddy back, too, although the Giambi disaster has made me (and hopefully Billy) a little gun shy about the annual 1-year deal for an aging veteran.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
