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Gullible's Travails; or, Prospectus Lost; or, I Am Not a Beautiful and Unique Snowflake

 

It's been a while.

You might be thinking, "Paul Thomas? Didn't he swear off the site?" Well, actually, no, not as such. My extended absence has relatively little to do with personal taste and everything to do with the fact that, for the last two-plus months, I've been suffering from a severe case of writer's block. I had this romantic notion that I wouldn't start commenting again until I had published something of at least SOME kind of merit, and so I've been a no-show since late March. In retrospect, that might not have been the best idea, since there's never anything so detrimental to creativity as the knowledge that one MUST be creative in order to get somewhere... frankly, it's started to feel like a bit of an albatross around my neck lately. But I digress.

I just about had a fanpost lined up for when my 30-day "time-out" ended... and then I didn't get it done, and it started to look pointless, and I was starting from scratch again. So I did, and got about halfway through another piece before succumbing to a combination of poor writing, annoyance at my own lack of spreadsheet savvy, and general fatigue. This is my third try. I still have the bits and pieces of the other work. Hopefully they'll come together at some point in the next two months or so.

Instead, I thought I'd leap into the fray with something that I'm pretty confident I know something about-- dollahs. Beaucoup bucks. Etc etc etc. I'm taking the A's' budgets for the next 3 years and taking a stab at turning the ship of state around. Maybe it'll look great and maybe it'll look hopeless-- no way to tell until we start.

This is the last I'll be saying with respect to myself, although ifyou have any burning personal questions, hagiographic odes, and/or suggestions that I perform anatomically unlikely self-abuses, I suppose I'll be hanging around the comments section.

Star-divide

OK, first things first. If you have not bookmarked Cot's Baseball Contracts on your browser, you aren't really paying much attention to things. The site was pretty fantastic even before this season, but it's become multiple times more awesome since the year started with the addition of "future payroll obligations" spreadsheets. Want to know who's a free agent when? How many arbitration hearings your team will be going through? What the five highest paid players on the team are? How about for next year? All these questions will be answered here.

I assume you've opened up that window-- if you haven't, do it now, because we'll be referring to it repeatedly in the next few pages.

Prologue: The A's Available Payroll

Before I start buying players for my imaginary team, I have to figure out how much actual cash I have to play around with. Let's turn to trusty old Mr. Spreadsheet for some help here.

In 2010, the A's have $19.25M committed so far. That's... not very much. With Giambi fired, if the A's get 23 random AAA players to fill out the roster alongside Eric Chavez and Mark Ellis, it'd only cost a Marlins-esque $28.45M. We've got some room here. But how much? Many of the actual A's are eligible for arbitration. Specifically, Michael WuertzJack CustSantiago CasillaChris DenorfiaRajai Davis, Joey Devine and Dana Eveland entered this year in a position to potentially look at arbitration next season.

However, this is not as much of a problem as it seems. Rajai Davis seems to have rediscovered this thing known as "hitting" since I started working on this fanpost, which ironically makes him harder to deal with since I can't just sell him for a steak dinner like I could a couple of months ago. Still, "players on your team having actual trade value" is a good problem to have. I'm deeply suspicious of this putative improvement of his, mostly because I have to take any opportunity to use the word "putative" that's offered to me, but he's beyond waiver bait. He'll probably get about $1.5M next year.

Santiago Casilla's hour is up. His performance is declining and there are too many other good relievers in the system to pay him. Dana Eveland and Chris Denorfia both needed to spend most of the season in the bigs to reach arbitration status, so they won't get there.

What are the other 3 going to make? Joey Devine bageled the 2009 season, so he's not likely to cost much, especially given his checkered past. I figure he signs at about $750K. Wuertz has been rock-solid this season in the bullpen and looks to get around $2M. Jack Cust hasn't been terribly great this year (Thanks, griping fans! You broke the A's best hitter!) but is still in line for a raise, probably to about the $4M range. Add it up together with the prior guaranteed money and you've got only $27.5M committed to fill five roster spots, or $35.5M if the other 20 spots are filled at the league minimum.

This year's team spent about $62M at the big-league level. It's not real likely that the economy or attendance will be significantly worse next year (mostly because they're already both terrible), but we might want to redirect some resources toward buying more amateur players (rarely a bad idea), save cash for midseason trades, or what have you. Let's assume a working budget of ~$60M for next season.

We've got ~$25M to play with! Awesome, right? Not so fast. We'd better look into the budgets for 2011 and 2012 to make sure the team isn't spending itself into a corner next season-- I think we can all agree that we'd like to avoid any more Lilly-for-Kielty salary dump fiascos.

The 2011 Budget

As usual, we start with guaranteed money... which... really isn't much. In fact, the A's don't have a single player actually under contract through 2011 at this point-- the only committed money is option dollars going to Eric Chavez (ouch) and Mark Ellis. I think we can safely write off the $3M to Chavez as a deadweight loss, but let's pencil in $5.5M more for Ellis's option year for the time being. That gives us $9M spent and one roster spot filled.

Then we get to arbitration, and things get hairy. Cust, Wuertz and Devine are all still subject to arbitration, of course. Assuming incremental raises for the three of them, we're looking at something like $20M spent and four roster spots filled. Surely we've found some way to get value for Davis by then, so I won't worry about paying him.

The following players are candidates to be up for arbitration for the first time in 2011:

Daric BartonTravis BuckDallas Braden, Dana Eveland, Chris Denorfia, Ryan SweeneyKurt Suzuki

Based on the service time they've accrued so far this season and their remaining option status, I expect to be paying all of these guys except for Barton. The exact amounts are wildly dependent on how they do in the next couple of years. I'll take some wild-ass guesses:

Suzuki: $2.5M

Braden: $2.5M

Buck: $1.5M

Eveland: $1M

Denorfia: $1M

Sweeney: $1.5M

$10M in total, bringing us to $30M with 10 roster spots filled. Another 15 league-minimum salaries bring the total to $36M. Again, we've got around $26M to play with, assuming a slight rebound in the economy and, thus, A's gate receipts. 

I was hoping to do 2012, too, but it's basically impossible. Players who are rookies this season are potentially eligible for arbitration by then, which means that practically the whole 40-man roster could be seeing raises. Obviously, not all of them will be. Anyway, let's go on the assumption that for the foreseeable future, the A's have about $26M to spend on free agents each offseason.

Step 1: Spending Money on Players Already On the Roster

It's pretty well known that deals before free agency save money. Players have a strong incentive to "cash in" and guarantee themselves a nest egg in case of injury. Teams are much less risk-averse, so they can do well by essentially playing insurance company for their players. There are limits to this-- you don't want to hand out the Dontrelle Willis contract-- but it's hard to go too far wrong here.

After this season, I'm looking to sign two players to long-term deals: Kurt Suzuki and Brett Anderson. After 2010, I'm looking at two more, Trevor Cahill and Vin Mazzaro, assuming they continue to show progress. Although the way they've been getting hammered lately, that might be overly optimistic. Still, better to have the money available if it's needed than to spend it and look like a fool later.

Suzuki is one of the better catchers in the AL-- he's a defensive stalwart, plays lots of games, and hits at an acceptably decent level. I'm looking to ink him through his first post-free agent year with an option year for the second. I think the team can do so with a 5-year, $22M contract with an additional $10M option year at the end. As I've drawn it up, this will cost the team an additional 0.6M next year (the savings is at the other end).

The pitchers get contracts modeled on the brilliantly win-win contract agreed upon between the Rays and James Shields prior to the 2008 season. Anderson's contract is for 4 seasons and $15M with 3 club option years at the end; the other two pitchers get 4-year deals with 2 option years and $12M guaranteed. For our purposes, these contracts add $0.4M next season and about $2M in 2011 with, again, the savings being realized later in the decade. All in all, leaving space for pre-arb contracts whittles down the available funds a bit. You'll thank me later.

If anyone wants detailed year-by-year breakdowns of these proposed deals, ask me in the comments section and I'll gladly provide them.

Step 2: Spending More Money on Someone Already on the Roster

We'll get to the interesting bit in a minute, I promise. Actually, this one is pretty interesting too: what on earth does the team do with Justin Duchscherer after this season? Right now, he's not likely to get draft-pick compensation if he leaves as a free agent, so there's no disincentive to re-signing him-- it's purely a question of whether he'll be worth the money. Which in turn raises the question of how much "the money" actually is.

I'm offering him a 3-year deal at $9M, $3M a season, tomorrow. It's not great wages for a guy who can be as dominant as he was last year, but it offers him a chance to stay in Oakland, gives him a nest egg for retirement, and fully absorbs the risk that he's unable to return to effective pitching. Ultimately, it's not much to pay for a player with the upside of a #1 or #2 starter. We'll know if he's decided to accept by season's end, so we go into the offseason with either $22M or $25M to spend for 2010.

Step 3: Shortstop

There are two positions on the A's roster that even the most unreasonable optimist (alright, I'll wear that sandwich board-- I did predict 84 wins for this A's roster before the season...) cannot hope to fill internally by next season. Not that there aren't other problems, too, but if we're looking for short-term fixes, it's got to start with shortstop and third base. The list of shortstops who will be free agents next season is ugly:

Orlando Cabrera OAK
Bobby Crosby OAK
Adam Everett DET
Alex Gonzalez * CIN
Khalil Greene STL
John McDonald TOR
Marco Scutaro TOR
Miguel Tejada HOU
Jack Wilson * PIT

My solution is Yunel Escobar, who has managed to piss off the Braves to the point where they have actually considered trading him-- quite an accomplishment, given his contract status. But maybe a change of scenery is what he needs.

He's not the perfect choice, I'll admit. So far this year, Escobar has actually been only about average-- his fielding numbers and his value over replacement have both been limited by some nagging injuries (hey, he'll fit right in here). That said, as a hitter he was very strong for a shortstop in both of the last two seasons, he's affordable, and he presents a possible buy-low opportunity. Why? Because Bobby Cox isn't real fond of him, and what Bobby wants, Bobby gets. A year ago, Bobby preferred Mark Kotsay to Joey Devine, and that worked out pretty well.

Still, Joey Devine was a reliever with a checkered past. Yunel Escobar is a proven MLB shortstop, and the offers are going to need to be a little better there. Atlanta has needs all over the place right now and could use quality prospects in the outfield, on the mound, and certainly in the infield too, if they move Yunel.

I'm willing to go pretty high for Escobar-- I assume that Dustin Coleman is moving as part of the deal, they'll almost certainly ask for an outfielder like Scott Hairston, and other pieces like Henry Rodriguez or Travis Buck could be deployed. It really depends on what they feel their primary needs are.

Is it a risk? Sure. Every trade is a risk. But I really like Escobar-- he's got a great OBP out of the SS slot, decent power, and depending on who you ask, pretty good defense.

Backup plan: The return of Marco Scutaro! No, he's not as good as he's been this year (most random spikes in power are just that, random). Yes, he's starting to get on in years. Fact is, he's the top option despite consistently getting little play from the mainstream media, and he liked playing in Oakland. If the Escobar deal falls through, I'm offering him 2 years, $18M. He ought to get at least as much as Edgar Renteria...

Step 4: Third Base

I had a pretty funny Jake Fox joke all lined up here (for those interested in a meaningless guessing game, it involved a Monty Python reference, like at least 30% of my jokes) and then Beane goes and trades for Brett Wallace, who's pretty much Jake Fox except five years younger and, thus, an actual prospect. Great. I'm having enough trouble making this interesting without the "help" of Billy Beane, the world's worst straight man.

As far as Wallace is concerned, he seems to be a ways off with the bat, and it would probably be optimistic to say "scouts are mixed" on his defensive abilities at third base. That's technically true, but it's a mix between "he might not be a complete eyesore there for a few years" and "if you play him at third base, your pitchers will start complaining about having to work unpaid overtime."

At the very least, his ability to claim the position entering next season is questionable. We need a backup plan.

Backup Plan: Let's check out those free agents again: 

Adrian Beltre SEA
Hank Blalock TEX
Geoff Blum HOU
Joe Crede MIN
Pedro Feliz * PHI
Chone Figgins LAA
Troy Glaus STL
Melvin Mora * BAL

Looked a lot better before Adrian Beltre went and blew out his shoulder (although I did see him back in action the other day), but at least there's something here. The tremendously underrated Pedro Feliz (if the Phillies don't pick up his option), Beltre if he's healthy, Crede if he's healthy, and Troy Glaus if he's healthy are all somewhere between acceptable and very good. (Most of them are standout defenders, as is/was Chavez, which makes me wonder a bit if there's any nexus between "good third base defense" and "injuries." Could it be that the only way to be a really plus defender at third is to give up your body and risk major injury?) Figgins is interesting as well, but if I'm signing him, it's as an outfielder, so he won't be discussed here.

Right now, there's no real way of knowing what the health status of any of the members of this Medivac Brigade will be in the offseason, but chances are good that 2 or 3 of them will be healthy going into next season. Given the risks involved, the A's can probably score the second-best of the group for around 1 year and $5 million.

Step 5: A Step Back... er, wait, I mean, A Status Reevaluation

Time to take a look at how the 2009 roster is shaping up so far.

1B: ??

2B: Mark Ellis

SS: Yunel Escobar or Marco Scutaro

3B: Brett Wallace or Beltre/Crede/Feliz/Glaus

C: Kurt Suzuki

LF: ??

CF: ??

RF: ??

DH: Jack Cust

SP: Dallas Braden

SP: Vin Mazzaro

SP: Trevor Cahill

SP: Brett Anderson

SP: ??

CL: Andrew Bailey

RHP: Joey Devine

RHP: Brad Ziegler

RHP: Michael Wuertz

LHP: Jerry Blevins (gradually getting his groove back)

LHP: Craig Breslow

SW: Justin Duchscherer?

Available Budget: Between $8M and $25M

Not bad, except for the outfield. Right now, there isn't a single player with a cemented spot out there. Looks like it's the next area of concern.

Step 6: The Outfield

This section kind of got thrown into flux by the acquisition of Scott Hairston. The outfield depth looks quite a bit better than it did prior to the trade. I'm leaving the analysis in, though, because if the A's are interested in contending, starting even two unproven outfield prospects is not the best. I like Aaron Cunningham, but the prospects are not a particularly happy-inducing group of players right now. Sweeney and Buck have alternated between "injured" and "terrible" for most of this season. Rajai Davis is a known quantity-- good backup, bad starter. Assuming he doesn't fall back down the cliff he recently climbed to the top of, he should be traded during the offseason. I'm the charter (some would say only) member of the Chris Denorfia Fan Club, but even I'll admit that he just doesn't look like someone who can handle starting duties.

Is there any help on the way? Unfortunately, not really. It looked like Sean Doolittle and Corey Brown might be on their way to the bigs by August or so, but then both players ran into the injury buzzsaw. Doolittle hasn't played since May; Brown's done a little better, but not much. We have to assume they'll be plying their trade in AAA next year. Eric Patterson probably deserves another chance, but I'm not holding my breath. Someone out there is going to say Grant Desme, to which my answer is "31.5"-- as in "percent of the time he has been struck out by A-ball pitchers."

 The team is, therefore, potentially looking at signing a free agent outfielder.

Step 7: The Outfield Market

I won't C&P the entire free agent list here, because there are a lot of outfielders, most of whom make no sense to sign. I'll hit some interesting options and/or pitfalls, however.

Bobby Abreu: .399 OBP is snazzy. History of horrific defense is less snazzy. He's not really an improvement over Jack Cust in the field, so you're running at least one major minus out there in your outfield. Also, he's getting old.

Rick Ankiel: There aren't many players who've had a weirder career than Ankiel. He's about to hit free agency for the first time, 10 seasons after his MLB debut. His power has fallen off this year, attributable to a sudden decrease in the number of his fly balls that are clearing the fence. Nick Swisher will tell you that this makes him a good buy-low candidate. Not so good: his low walk rate and his average defense.

Jason Bay: Yeah, not happening.

Marlon Byrd: An intriguing candidate indeed. In prior years, his defense has been good to excellent, as has his hitting. This year he's fallen off just a little, but part of that may have to do with decreased playing time. He's got a little of that 2006-Jay-Payton thing going for him. He's on my short list.

Mike Cameron: Still doing Mike Cameron-ey things, like striking out a lot, playing good CF defense, and hitting home runs. Also a short-list candidate despite a fairly high risk of collapse.

Johnny Damon: One would have to assume he's not eager to reprise the scene of his worst hitting season.

Chone Figgins: Speaking of odd careers, Figgins has had a pretty weird one too. He seems to be alternating good and awful seasons, which is not a reason not to sign him for next year, but he's also on the wrong side of 30, which is. Will his legs hold up? Knowing the A's medical staff, I'm going to say "no," and Figgins without legs is a pretty lousy player.

Vlad: Season gets a grade of EPIC FAIL so far. [Should I make the "buying low doesn't matter if you're buying Caribbean penny stocks" joke, or would that be "culturally insensitive?" Well, I guess I just made it. Anyone else find it ironic that there's no politically correct way to ask whether saying something is politically correct?] Not going there.

Matt Holliday: Yeah, not happening.

Magglio Ordonez: From near-MVP to ticket out of town in two years? I don't think anyone has any idea what to expect from Mags next season. Ultimately I don't think he solves the A's' problems unless they get real lucky, and I feel like someone will pay him too much for past performance.

Randy Winn: Winn has been chronically underrated for years, but I think Byrd is better, younger, and likely cheaper.

Final Assessment: I'm offering up to 2 years, $16 million to Mike Cameron, who continues to play quality ball in his mid-30s. If we've failed to make any trades to fill 3B or SS, re-signed Duchscherer, and assuming he accepts (not certain), that's it-- we're out of money. If not, I'm also looking to ink Marlon Byrd for around 2 years and $10 million.

Step 8: First Base

The cold corner has been a house of horrors for the A's in recent seasons. Daric Barton's struggles the last two years are well documented, and the rest of the PA have gone to a crew of has-beens who have posted an sOPS+ of, as of writing this, 56 (that is, OPS+ relative to the situational average-- in this case, a league average first baseman hitting in Oakland). This putrescent performance is the worst on the team-- worse even than third base, manned primarily by noted no-hit wonders Jack Hannahan and Bobby Crosby. There's not much out there in free agency, which is why I haven't bothered to save dollars for the position-- Nick Johnson is about the only name that interests me, and I fear that his extreme injury risk won't be properly accounted for by the free agent market. 

Brett Wallace again pokes his head in as a candidate here, but the offensive requirements of first base are considerably more onerous than third and I just don't see him being ready by next season. In addition, the A's are well advised (because of the lack of depth at 3B in the system) to keep him playing third for as long as he seems to have any chance of sticking there. He's a desperation option, but that's about it.

In order to build depth, therefore, the A's need to do some dumpster-diving and come up with a few free or cheap replacement options that can be turned to if Barton fails to deliver. Calling up Tommy Everidge was a good start-- odds are that he's not realistically a candidate to contribute at the major league level, but it doesn't hurt to give him a try. If nothing else, there's more upside there than there is with Giambi, who hasn't hit well even when he's been able to avoid the DL.

The next candidate on the list might be worth it just for the marketing-- Hawaiian late bloomer Kila Ka'aihue has more walks than strikeouts on the season and is busy posting his second consecutive season with OBP's north of .400. The potential business bonanza of "Kila Monster" merchandise and offseason package tours to Hawaii with Kila and Kurt Suzuki aside, the man needs a chance at the major league level, and the Royals aren't going to give it to him. I'd look to trade a bullpen arm to acquire him-- Andrew Carignan and Henry Rodriguez both fit the bill, as power arms who walk a few too many hitters to be at their best in an environment like the Coliseum.

If the A's are looking for a poor man's Daric Barton clone, providing great plate discipline at the expense of power, they might want to look into Wes Timmons, the first baseman for Atlanta's AAA franchise. He has zero power (literally-- no home runs this season), but he boasts a remarkable BB/K ratio (not a fluke-- he was at 45/25 last season) and pretty decent speed and batting average numbers. Perhaps the A's could get him as a throw-in to the Yunel Escobar trade outlined above, or perhaps they could snag him as a minor league free agent. I can't tell if he's going to be granted free agency this offseason or not.

Randy Ruiz just got a callup from Toronto to replace Alex Rios (let's not get into how weird THAT whole thing was) after consistently pounding the ball in the high minors for the last several seasons. Toronto already has an established first baseman in Lyle Overbay, so he's not likely to stick there long-term. As a guy who's somewhat older than Everidge, I'm less bullish on his chances to make good, but it never hurts to stock your larder with as many flavors of Spam as possible. (I bet you didn't even know there WERE multiple flavors of Spam. Well, there are-- Hot 'n' Spicy Spam, Spam Spread, and even Spam Golden Holy Grail. You can't make this stuff up, folks.) Maybe they'll all suck, but at least they taste better than "going hungry," which is what the A's have been up to lately.

Another option the team might look at is the Mexican League. Most of the sluggers down there are thoroughly over the hill, keeping their careers going by playing where the air is thin, but there are a few exceptions. One particularly interesting fellow is Japhet Amador, a 22-year-old first baseman currently with Veracruz. He's showing formidable power (21 HR) for a youngster. One assumes he won't come cheap, probably involving a transfer fee in the high six or low seven figures, but if the scouts say that his talent is legitimate, it'd be worth it. The A's seem to have a real edge on the competition in scouting the Mexican League, and perhaps they can parlay that edge into another solid prospect. All that said, Amador is unlikely to be a significant factor next season.

Time to set some concrete goals. By Opening Day of next season, the A's need to:

Get Everidge a significant cup of coffee (100 ABs or so).

Give Daric Barton another extended period in which he can actually start for the team.

Hire or acquire another "freely available talent" slugger.

Odds are, unfortunately, that first base will continue to be a problem area through the early part of next year. Still, the worst thing one can do when presented with a major problem is "nothing." The second-worst thing one can do is "sign Carlos Delgado." Hopefully the A's can avoid those pratfalls.

Step 9: Pitching

We're finally to the last stage in what has become a rather epic exercise in putting the "depth" in "depth charts." Taking stock again, we find that the A's have potentially as much as $20M to spend, or potentially as little as zero, depending on what moves get made.

As was the case last season, the A's could really use one more starter to enter the season with. This year, the lack of said starter led in part to the utterly bizarre decision to start the season with Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson in the big-league rotation, which did the team no favors from a winning standpoint while pointlessly squandering their service time. I'm fighting the impulse to go off on a rant at this point about how bad last offseason was, and will instead simply point out that everyone would be a hell of a lot happier if the A's had signed Randy Johnson instead of Jason Giambi and Orlando Cabrera. Sometimes signing a starter IS the right option.

Is it right for this season, though? There are certainly some major names available next offseason:

Erik Bedard: Do you trust the A's to keep him healthy? He's very, very good when he is. Personally, though, I'd expect him to start about 10 games in 3 seasons in an Oakland uniform.

Kelvim Escobar: Eek. If there's anyone more injury-riddled than Bedard, it's this guy. The extension he signed with the Angels has basically been a disaster. Might be worth it on a Brad Penny-like short term deal, but I'm not making any kind of long-term commitment.

Rich Harden: Speaking of risky... honestly, I don't think he'd want to come back, nor do I particularly relish the thought of seeing him back.

Tim Hudson: Recovering from Tommy John Surgery and will miss most or all of this year. The Braves have a contract option on him for next season, however. I have no idea if it will be exercised or not. If he was available, I would be all over him-- not only is he a fan favorite and very good at baseball, he'd be perfectly situated to serve as a "second pitching coach" for young sinkerballers Cahill, Anderson and Mazzaro.

John Lackey: Not having a great season, due largely to an inflated BABIP. I feel like he's still going to get paid a ton of money, but the one scenario in which I could see him actually being affordable and desirable (a season in which his peripherals remain good but his ERA is mediocre) is partway toward coming to pass.

Jason Marquis: You've got to be kidding me. Or since I'm writing this, I've got to be kidding myself, which is a little weird. Anyway, this is your obligatory "don't sign lame pitchers having fluky-good years" reminder.

Brett Myers: Not that great, and injured. Still have a hard time believing he was the #2 pitcher for a World Series winner-- not only is that karmically insulting (given his status as well-known wife-beater/thug), it's downright mystifying from a player-talent standpoint. I guess Chase Utley really is that awesome.

Jarrod Washburn: His improvement this year is mostly real, thanks to a much improved sinker, but he's still getting on in years and extremely likely to be overpaid.

 

Well, that was pretty disappointing, actually. Not nearly as much there as I thought there would be. If Tim Hudson is available and we've got cash left over, I'd be willing to go as high as 3 years at $10M a pop for him, and I think there's a decent chance he would enjoy returning to take on a leadership role as the unquestioned veteran "stopper" of the staff. The A's should probably put a bid in on John Lackey, too, but more to drive up the Angels' price to re-sign him than for any other reason.

Step 10: Is It Worth It?

Let's do a quick-and-dirty projection of this lineup to try to figure out how it looks.

C: 3.5 WAR (Suzuki is pretty good)

1B: 1 WAR (still a problem area)

2B: 2.5 WAR (Ellis is excellent, backups not so excellent and likely to see some time)

SS: 2.5 WAR (assuming the A's land Escobar; somewhat conservative)

3B: 2 WAR (Still not sure how much to believe in Wallace or the free agents, but there are actually a lot of good options here)

LF: 3 WAR (Hairston is solid)

CF: 3 WAR (Cameron is also still solid)

RF: 1.5 WAR (I want a prospect breakout as much as you do, but can't just assume one)

DH: 2 WAR (assuming a rebound by Cust once the A's finally realize that messing with his hitting style is idiocy)

SP1: 3 WAR

SP2: 2.5 WAR

SP3: 2 WAR

SP4: 2 WAR

SP5: 1.5 WAR (the above more or less assumes a rotation of Hudson/Braden/Anderson/Cahill/Mazzaro, but obviously the estimates are extremely generic)

RP: 5 WAR (A's have a lot of quality in this area even after the Hairston trade)

Total: 37 WAR, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 87 wins. Good enough that some prospect breakouts could put the team over the top, but not nearly a dominant force.

Conclusion: Where the Hell Do The A's Go From Here?

Well, o apostrophized reader person, that's an excellent question. And one to which I can now authoritatively state that... I don't have a good answer.

I really don't see how it's possible for the A's to contend without developing one or more top-tier players internally. The math just doesn't add up-- it's very difficult to fill 14 or 15 slots with slightly above average players, and in any event, the A's are a long ways from doing so. As for generating those top-tier guys, development takes time, and the players with very high upsides are not especially close to reaching them.

The sudden reverse-course, "go for it" decision for this year may well have set the A's rebuilding plans back by a full season. The outfield is a mess and missing the guy who was previously the top prospect, Carlos Gonzalez. The infield is filled with veteran time-servers. After examining the options, I think it's time to admit that a. it was a failure, and b. that the A's should not repeat it next season.

That's not the same as advocating inaction, mind you. What it means is: avoid trading for one-year rentals, avoid players who might block legitimate prospects, and generally try to avoid Type A free agents. Interestingly, I think a lot of my "plan", above, is still operational. Yunel Escobar isn't hitting free agency anytime soon. Hudson's no Type A with all the time he's missed; Adrian Beltre might not be, either. Marlon Byrd is on the outside edge of maybe, but is probably acquireable. However, it mostly rules out Cameron and Scutaro.

One thing I think is very important is for the team to punt this season as soon as humanly possible, which means immediately transitioning to "auditioning for the future" mode. Axing Giambi was a good start. Nomar and Crosby have no value and should be released, which sounds heartless but might actually improve their chances of playing for a contending team down the stretch, as the new team would only have to pay them the prorated league minimum salary. Springer gets a pat on the back before being put out to pasture at the back end of the bullpen (or, ideally, traded, assuming he's willing to make the move and clears waivers, which I think he would). Adam Kennedy should have his playing time scaled way back, because he is not a part of the A's future. I'm still baffled as to why he wasn't moved at the deadline. Trevor Cahill should be sent immediately to AAA, which will preserve an additional season of club control and allow him to work on... well, pretty much everything. (I'm less worried about Mazzaro, who's not been great but is suffering from a bizarrely inflated BABIP in his last 10-ish starts.)

Summation

1. The A's have in the neighborhood of $26M a season to spend on free agents for the foreseeable future.

2. Approximately $4M should be earmarked for raises to players already in the organization, as a loyalty bonus for signing pre-arbitration contracts and/or for a long-term extension for Justin Duchscherer.

3. Major holes on the roster are shortstop, third base, an outfield spot, and first base.

4. The A's should make serious efforts to trade for Yunel Escobar (ATL).

5. Within the month, the A's need to clear the roster of, or at least bench, veteran stopgaps in favor of players who will be with the team beyond this season, including at least Cliff Pennington, Gregorio Petit, Tommy Everidge, Travis Buck, Aaron Cunningham and Chris Denorfia.

6. Entering the offseason, the A's should be targeting good-glove players at third base, in particular Joe Crede, Adrian Beltre, and possibly Pedro Feliz depending on whether his option is exercised. In a perfect world, those guys are fill-ins and defensive replacements for Brett Wallace. More likely, they're starting for at least half the season.

7. In the outfield, there are a number of interesting players, but the big names will not realistically be available. Once again, the A's should be targeting underrated players with crack gloves like Marlon Byrd.

8. First base doesn't appear to have a long-term solution available, so the best solution is competition among a number of different options, including Daric Barton but not handing him the job.

9. There isn't much available at SP. Tim Hudson is worth a sniff if he is on the market.

10. Don't have inflated expectations. 2010 is probably not going to happen, although there's enough upside lying around that the A's aren't out of the running by any means.

Alright, I'm spent. Have at it.

35 recs  |  Comment 291 comments

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"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 13, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before reading this, which looks very interesting (and long), let me be the first to welcome you back, PT

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Aug 13, 2009 5:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I was about to say about the same thing. Basically:

1. Nice to have you back, PT!
2. Now let me read this interesting-looking post.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 13, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back, PT.

I shall now read your post with great enthusiasm.

Off day? Not for AN!

The artist formerly known as HigherPie.

by vegAN ryAN on Aug 13, 2009 5:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Welcome back man!

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Aug 13, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

yup

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Aug 14, 2009 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

uggghh

the top 3 names on that list: Holliday, Chavez, Crosby…talk about getting bang for your buck!

Welcome back, PT.

Once I fully digest this enormous roast beast you’ve set at my table, I’ll probably be back down here for more convo…

"If, by 'journey', you mean, 'me coming to terms with my manlove', and the destination being 'Jack Cust' then yes. I agree." -bobnothing

by dtownmbrown on Aug 13, 2009 5:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

To clarify:

This list.

"If, by 'journey', you mean, 'me coming to terms with my manlove', and the destination being 'Jack Cust' then yes. I agree." -bobnothing

by dtownmbrown on Aug 13, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Breaking news out of Seattle:

Mariners placed 3B Adrian Beltre on the 15-day disabled list with an injured testicle.

You might be right, PT. Adrian sure sounds like an Oakland A.

The artist formerly known as HigherPie.

by vegAN ryAN on Aug 13, 2009 5:19 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Awwww, nuts.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Aug 13, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awwww, nut.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 13, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha nice man

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Aug 13, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK - so maybe I am dumb about this kind of stuff but...

why would an MLB player play this game without a cup?? The baseball is flying around at a great rate of speed most of the time. Granted – I know the chances of it clipping a guy right where it hurts is slim – but really? I don’t even want to comtemplate the surgery he might have to have. Does he have kids Let’s hope so!

"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?" Yogi Berra

by BERRYJO on Aug 13, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before games in HS they would check to make sure you had a cup with a bat

plenty of motivation to wear one. I guess they should have told major leaguers that its still a good idea when youre out of HS.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 13, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't it possible he was wearing a cup and still injured a testicle

on a ringing vibration? Though my theory is that Ichiro is to blame — he swings at a lot of balls.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 13, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read a little blurb that said the lack of equipment was the teason for the injury.

"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?" Yogi Berra

by BERRYJO on Aug 13, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is a good opportunity

for a pun involving batting average on balls in play.

Bob Garen is incontinent

by Aufheben on Aug 14, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I haven't heard anything about Beltre being married, so...

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm down with putative.

Also, speaking of the Mexican League, does anyone know anything about this guy?

Looks like he’s split his duties between relief and starting, but a nearly 9 k/9 ratio and a 2.31 ERA from a 19-year-old in the Mexican League is damned interesting to me.

Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.

by walk off bunt on Aug 13, 2009 5:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Command is definitely on the iffy side

Looks like a pretty good prospect, but not quite as good as Leon was before the A’s bagged him. Certainly worth keeping an eye on.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are your thoughts on Hank Blalock (anyone)?

Also, Spam Golden Holy Grail? How do I get my hands on that?

And yes, if we end up with the Kila Monster on our team, the clubhouse cabinets better be stocked with Spam, to keep him and Zooks happy.

"If, by 'journey', you mean, 'me coming to terms with my manlove', and the destination being 'Jack Cust' then yes. I agree." -bobnothing

by dtownmbrown on Aug 13, 2009 5:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He was just awful as a third baseman last season, to the point that the Rangers started playing Ramon Vasquez there instead

If Ramon Vasquez looks like a solution, you’ve really got a problem.

Bottom line, he hasn’t had a good season since 2004. I’d steer well clear.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hot damn!

Welcome back! The site was poorer without you. I entreat you to at least play nice enough to stick around awhile. If you can treat the people who disagree with you not as fools (although god knows we have our share) but rather as beloved family members who are analytically challenged (but nevertheless have a fine ear for condescension), we may have a chance to avoid the hideously boring metathreads of the past. Whether you were cause or merely catalyst, I could really do without those.

Rec’d! Now I’m going to actually scroll up and read the damn thing.

by Faust on Aug 13, 2009 5:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

welcome back

and here we go again.

I disagree with a number of things here.

I think Pennington is on his way to claiming the SS spot.
I think Wallace has a better chance of being the starting 3B man next year than you do, and certainly by 2011.
I think Everidge could be a decent stopgap— perhaps alternating (platooning, i guess) with Barton until Carter is ready and/or Wallace is shifted there.
I don’t think Rajai Davis is going anywhere this offseason.
Have you forgotten about/dismissed Gio? I see a pretty damn good pitcher the past several outings— would think he might even me moving ahead of Mazzaro in the pecking order.

I do agree— and have posted before— that they’re gonna need another outfield bat— next year or 2011— but God I pray it’s not Mike Cameron.

by jasonthea on Aug 13, 2009 5:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

In order:

1. Not a fan of Pennington as a starter. He’s extremely reminiscent of Willie Bloomquist to me— maybe not quite as punchless, but damn close. I prefer to keep Bloomquists where they belong— the bench.
2. Wallace’s AAA numbers are not, at this point, suggestive of a player who will be major league ready in 2010. And frankly, I’ve had enough of “rushing prospects and praying that the team lucks out.”
3. If nothing else, Everidge is worth a try.
4. Rajai Davis is the same bad hitter he’s always been. His plate discipline is still suspect (check out his swing percentages at Fangraphs— better than last year, still not particularly good), he still tries to pull EVERYTHING, and he still lacks power. You may be right that he won’t be traded, but he definitely should be. As a starter, the best I can say about him is that his defense is probably good enough that he won’t totally kill the team. There are about 28374 players with higher upside in the A’s system and I’d prefer to unblock them. I will say this— I no longer believe Ryan Sweeney is one of them. But I don’t think the A’s could get value for Sweeney, and the difference between the two of them is basically negligible.
5. This post was put together over a long time, owing to the aforementioned writer’s block and a series of internet outages at my house, so there are undoubtedly a number of mistakes lying around. That’s one of them. Let’s put him in and pull Cahill out. Players with a tRA of 6.61 really don’t belong in a major league rotation.
6. What have you got against Mike Cameron?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Willie Bloomquist

I like it better this way:

I prefer to keep Bloomquists where they belong— the bench in Kansas City.

Trade Pennington now!

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Aug 13, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On Cameron

He turns 37 in the off-season. I worry about a falloff

His defensive numbers have bounced around the last 5 years— some better than league average, some not. I don’t think he’s anywhere near the defensive force he was in his late 20s and early 30s

He basically hits 240-250 with some power. He’s walking this year, but didn’t much in the two years before that. I don’t see a lot of upside.

by jasonthea on Aug 14, 2009 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and as to the "rushing prospects"

I have an entirely different view. With only a few exceptions, I believe that the sooner that a player gets experience in the bigs— assuming he is anywhere near ready— the better for his long-term development. MAC and Gio will be better next year for their experience this year. And I think the same will hold for Wallace. Now some guys just can’t cut it— Barton, Cunningham, even Buck might fall into this category— no matter when they come up— or have to spend a lot windier road until they finally can (Ludwick, Pena, Cruz). But again with only a few exceptions I don’t think an early elevation to the highest level created the problem— it may simply have identified it.

by jasonthea on Aug 14, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, not to strawman you overmuch here, but if this is true,

why would anyone bother with minor league systems at all? Just call everyone up to the big leagues right away and park them in Arizona when they’re not playing so they don’t get hurt.

The point of minor leagues is to act as a diagnostic tool to figure out who will and won’t help you. That tool is telling us rather strongly that Brett Wallace will not help the A’s in (at least the first part of) 2010.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being rushed to the big leagues can also permanently damage players development

You get into all sorts of bad habits when you play against competition that is vastly superior to you, and that doesn’t even start to get into the psychology of it.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said....

here we go again.

You did “strawman” me— and in a ridiculous fashion. Please re-read the “assuming he is anywhere near ready” phrase. I think “anywhere near ready” presumes a player whose development has occurred— for however long necessary— in the minors. And that the diagnostic tool was used. And that given the economics of the game, calling up a cheap rookie or rookiesd is preferable to signing more expensive veterans.

As to the “permanently damage” assertion, OK— prove it. You can’t. I would argue that it is more likely that a player gets into “all sorts of bad habits” playing against INFERIOR competition for too long, as opposed to the reverse. There are exceptions that prove every rule but generally there isn’t much to be gained by delaying someone who is ready for the Show.

by jasonthea on Aug 14, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"delaying someone who is ready for the Show"

I think we’re having definitional issues. To “rush” a prospect means, at least to me, to promote them before they are ready.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

DO NOT ANGER THE PT

If he goes away again I shall be quite put out

"Paul Thomas is breaking something somewhere" ~jeepers

by OptimistPrime on Aug 16, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing wrong with that post...

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 16, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This

I think being 37 is going to start mattering again.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really any indications that a falloff is coming, though

Like I said, he’s basically the exact same player he was five years ago. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but I think it’s less likely.

Defensive numbers bounce around because that’s what defensive numbers do. They’re intrinsically smaller sample sizes than offensive numbers. Average them out and he’s clearly still a plus defender.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree on your defensive point

Especially if you mean “plus” in the scouting sense rather than the “> 0 UZR” sense.

Of his last five years, he’s had 3 negative UZRs and 2 positive ones. He’s been double digits in each direction (bad in SD, good in Milwaukee).

You’re certainly right that his offense has been steady, which makes it a lot less likely than it was for, say, Giambi. That said, I think giving money to players that old, especially a lot of money over multiple years, is a uniformly terrible idea.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you're at the game or bar and have something to say.

Here are my thoughts:

Is there any precedent for the sort of 3/9 Duke contract you’re talking about? It seems like a good idea but it only takes one GM to decide Duke is back for good before he gets more money than that in fewer years. If you were handicapping the odds of that deal (or similar) happening, where would you go? I’m at about 30%.

The problem with outfield spots are that we have ok players for all of them. Rajai provides 1-2 WAR in center, Hairston/Sweeney/Buck/Cunningham should produce 2 ok, but not great, players. It seems to me like the last place to upgrade. Especially since it is usually not too hard to find an OF in-season should we actually stay in contention. Also, I would absolutely not want to pay Cameron on a “post steroids age matters again” theory.

At first, still think Barton is the guy. He and Everidge should, at least, keep us from being the worst in MLB at the position. Too bad the A’s didn’t make your Branyan move.

SS and 3B, then, are the gaping holes. Do you think there is truly no chance that AK re-signs and gets 3B starts (either until Wallace is called up, once Chavez is done forever, or some other amount)? He seems like as good a stopgap as any non-Beltre option. I heartily agree on Yunel, but if that doesn’t work I do think Hardy is another option in the “way better than Pennington” class.

Hudson would be a lot of fun to have back (and a much better reunion than Giambi).

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 13, 2009 5:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope Barton takes the reigns at first too,

but I wouldn’t be opposed to adding some options beyond Everidge on the cheap.

As for Kennedy, I think he was kept on beyond the deadline purely as a good veteran presence and because of his outward praise of Oakland in general. That must have outweighed whatever package teams offered for him, and it’s possible that most teams recognized his fluky offensive streak for what it was.

by rebus on Aug 13, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The nice thing about a Tejada deal is you can have him protect against terrible production at two positions

I whole heartily agree about not looking to upgrade the OF due to a bunch of averagish options, though if PT trades Hairston and Buck for Yuniel then you are going to have to go get a FA outfielder unless you want an outfield with only one player who has played a full major league season to try to pseudo contend.

I think the psychology of a Duke prevents the 3/9 deal since there is probably someone who will offer him 1/$2.25m with incentives to $4.25m. If Duke does rebound he gives up his one real bigger potential free agent deal with a 3/9 deal and athletes always think that they can come back.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 13, 2009 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Atlanta won't want two outfield prospects anyway

One, yes, but they still have McLouth, Jordan Schafer and Jason Heyward.

Duchscherer seems to me like an unusually mature and self-aware guy, and he’s also something of a family man (not going to burn his money off on hookers and blow, in other words). $9M is retirement money. It’d have to be at least somewhat tempting.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, but what happens when he gets 2/8 or 2/9 from someone else?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You file a lawsuit against them for in-season tampering?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose (and I do see your "right now" point)

I just have a hard time believing that those offers aren’t out there (especially given the weak SP class), and if he knows they are out there it doesn’t matter that they aren’t formally offered in season.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I think that Duke will get a contract that probably includes up to $4.5m with incentives for one year in the offseason.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More numbers!

1. Yes we can! Yes we can!

Oh, you said “precedent,” not “president.”

Best precedent I can claim for it is last year’s contract to Juan Rivera. Weak, I know, but this is very much a “should” and not a “will” post.

2. Outfield: It’s as much a question of “who should we spend money on” as “where is the biggest weakness.” All things being equal, I’d say the rotation was more of a soft spot. But… I mean, Jason Marquis? Jarrod Washburn? These are disasters waiting to happen.

3. I wonder how much Branyan will get next season… but I’d prefer to go the FAT route, since I think it will ultimately be covered through the farm system. Although I should mention that I see Chris Carter as very much of an OF/DH and NOT a first baseman at this point.

4. Lord, please save us from the bogeyman that is the possibility of Adam Kennedy being re-signed by Oakland.

5. Hardy is weird. Reports are that he looks totally lost in the batter’s box right now. Also not impossible that a union grievance may come out of this whole situation. As with all trade targets, it just depends on the price. If it’s like Henry Rodriguez and Jason Christian, sign me up. If it’s Sean Doolittle and Trevor Cahill, not interested.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about James Simmons for Hardy (in the offseason)

or, even, something along the lines of Simmons and Sweeney/Buck for Hardy and some C+ prospect

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on Aug 13, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'd do that, but I just don't see Milwaukee accepting it

Simmons has probably damaged his stock as much as Hardy has this season.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

why are you vehemently opposed to AK being resigned by Oakland?

He shouldn’t be handed a starting job out the gate, but he could make a decent stopgap at 3B if the A’s can’t get Beltre/Crede.

Obviously if someone decides to overpay, the A’s should stay away though. For the right price though, bring him in.

"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West

by Blicks on Aug 14, 2009 6:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm with you on AK

he seems to be a good veteran (i know, i know, it isn’t quantifiable), and though his numbers should drop off, i doubt if he will be an albatross.

speaking of non-quantifiables, i think AK’s experience on a WS winner is valuable. we had some dirt nasty teams earlier this decade, but they always seemed to tighten up at the wrong time. i always thought that part of the problem was that everybody from the manager down was just wet behind the ears when it came to post-season play. having some vets to keep things calm and in perspective is an asset, and i think AK fills this role well.

by jlanning17 on Aug 14, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kennedy's numbers by month

May: .390/.462/.622
June: .218/283/.318
July: .296/.317/.400
Aug: .220/.313/.439

And a career .721 ops.

Aside from May, he’s basically been nothing special. I’m sorry but those aren’t starter numbers. I was hoping the A’s would trade Kennedy while his value was high, but i guess people who were blinded by his fluke month would have had a bitch fit.

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Aug 14, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But why not have Kennedy as a great clubhouse presence and solid utility INF,

who models for a young team the “play the game right, grind it out with resolve” that they need to develop? I don’t see the downside if the contract is reasonable.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was commenting on the idea of him starting

not the idea of him as a utility infielder.

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Aug 14, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your analysis is just as weak as the analysis you accuse others of using

He’s been a 1.5 WAR player this year and provided reasonable defense at 3B (in a very small sample). You can’t ignore hot streaks (whether or not they conveniently correlate to months or not).

We could do a lot worse as a backup utility infielder and post-Chavez pre-Wallace 3B (assuming Wallace only needs a month or two in AAA). I would, of course, much rather get Furcal on a one-year deal. If that doesn’t happen, though, there aren’t a lot of better options out there.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, i don't think he's a bad backup, i just don't want him starting.

But I don’t see how it’s as bad an analysis to look at 3 months of a season that are inline with his career numbers than looking his first month which greatly inflate his season stats.

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Aug 14, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because months are arbitrary cutoffs

Players have hot and cold streaks, so ignoring the hot ones is wrong. The following might help:

May: .390/.462/.622
June: .218/283/.318
July: .296/.317/.400
Aug: .220/.313/.439

Now he looks like a 300 hitter with 440 slg and some plate discipline. Not bad.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok

But you can’t just look at a few months and judge a player that way. That’s why I included his career numbers. He has never been a very good hitter during his career(especially the few seasons prior to this one), why would that change this point in his career? When he has a month where he has a BABIP around .500 and bats .390 when he’s only been a .721 ops career hitter, doesn’t that raise a red flag? Especially when the rest of the season has been in line with what he’s done in the past?

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Aug 14, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where is anyone saying he's a .400 hitter?

He’s very likely a 1.X WAR guy, since he has been in 06, 08, and 09 (before 2006, he was a 3.X WAR guy).

I’m not saying that he’s a star, a permanent solution, or a must have (in fact, much the opposite). What he is, is quite possibly the most cost-effective 3B filler out there in a year where we need some 3B filler.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not sign someone who, you know, isn't filler and is actually good at baseball?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I went back up to quote me, but I said Furcal instead of Beltre (who I meant)

My point is why commit to multiple years of “very ok” when you have legitimate top-100 prospects coming up in the position and someone who is just ok that can hold things down short term.

This is especially true when you have an actual gaping hole with no relief in sight at SS.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The A's have no prospects at all at 3B unless you count Wallace

who a. is likely to be terrible defensively, and b. is in position to potentially fill the hole that exists at FIRST base as well. Signing a real 3B does not in any sense block him.

And as I tried to show, the free agents available at 3B are way, way, WAY better than the free agents available at SS. How much do you think Joe Crede is going to get? He’s on pace to be a 2.5-3 WAR player.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cardenas?

You don’t like him at 3rd?

by drink on Aug 14, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More that I just don't buy him as a real contributor until mid-2011 or so

although I’m probably less high on him than most A’s fans, for what that’s worth.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

But if you sign someone to a three year deal, you’re blocking Wallace (3B edition) and Cardenas (completely)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't really see most of those guys on 3-year deals

Glaus, maybe. Beltre, maaaaybe. He’d have gotten it in the old market— now? Not so sure.

It doesn’t block Cardenas, who can play 2B or SS (yes, I’m allowed to say he’s a SS if you’re allowed to say Wallace is a 3B).

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How does that follow

Wallace is actually playing 3B

If we’re at the pure wish casting level, then we should sign Crede to be our SS. He has a career 82.2 UZR/150 there (1 game).

A certain unicorn blocks cardenas at 2B in 2011 (assuming he’s still worth $6M)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

PT, what do you think about Glaus on a 3-year deal,

as a guy who if he can’t help you at 3B can help you a lot at 1B and if the A’s have a better option can give you a legit DH (and backup corner INF)?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMO: Hard to know until after this season

He’s a great player, only 32, and hasn’t played at all this year due to shoulder surgery.

At one point, it looked like he wouldn’t be able to make throws from third.

3 years is a lot to commit to a player like that, especially since we are not likely to need his 36 year old season.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His injuries and backne are scary to me

Now, sometimes you have to acknowledge that a player is scary and try to sign him anyway (see: Furcal last offseason— he really WAS the only free agent shortstop worth a damn), but I’m not sure that’s the case here.

Certainly I’d value Beltre at more years/money. Glaus is probably better than Crede, but I wouldn’t go 3 years on Crede either. 2, I could see.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

When you mention

“backne”, I assume that’s a proxy for suspicion of past steroid use, suggesting that past performance may be a weak indicator of future performance, right?

Or are you actually judging a player on his aesthetic appeal when he takes his shirt off? I know some fans do that, but I wouldn’t have expected you to be one of them.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Aug 15, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The former, yes

I couldn’t care less what he looks like…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's fairly unlikely that Ellis's option gets picked up

particularly if Cardenas or Weeks looks ready to claim the spot. Ellis is starting to show little signs (increased number of injuries, lower BABIP, a few other things) of decline.

Of course, he’s a lot more likely to be retained if the prospects are all sucking pond water.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's fair enough

It’s just hard for me to imagine him not being worth $6M

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 15, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think he would be a good sell high candidate in a trade

perhaps to ATL for Escobar?

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd have to see the package, but yes, that's not implausible

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They need a second baseman unless Martin Prado is the answer.

I just don’t see the teams matching up well at this point. Something like Pennington, Cardenas, Weurtz? The Braves have a good team they just need the parts to work. Im not sure that I would give up Hariston if I am giving up Cardenas. Both Soriano and Gonzalez are going to be gone after this year so Weurtz would be their closer. The would need to fill their SS position since Diory Hernandez is terrible.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 15, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Joe Crede hasn't played 100 games (let alone 150) since 2006

The last two years his WAR was 0.1 and 1.8. This year it’s 2.1 (and, as you say, counting).

Point being, he’s hardly a sure thing to be “actually good at baseball” next year.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't buy the "Wallace will suck at 3B" argument

Since I think a lot of it is based upon scouts that see a chubby guy and assume he can’t field. He’s made some great plays (can’t find the video).

I’m all for signing Beltre because I think he can be had on a 1 year make-good deal and he’s a great player. If we’re talking about marginal, less flexible, and more expensive improvements to AK I become a lot less interested.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've actually seen him make some nice plays, too

but…

Also, FWIW, in a small sample size last year, he was utterly awful by TotalZone. No numbers from this year yet that I’ve seen.

Re: Crede, you’re right, but I’d rather sign a guy with a 50% chance of being 3 WAR and a 50% chance of being hurt than a known mediocrity like Kennedy.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This has been the A's strategy

You eventually need someone who can play a utility role, stay healthy, and not kill you offensively. Since the A’s have a limited payroll, that player is likely to be mediocre. If the A’s actually get Yunel (which would be awesome at almost any rational price), then Pennington can be that guy. If not, I don’t see why AK is so horribly awful.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he's signed to a contract to be a backup,

paying backup’s wages, I won’t throw a hissy fit. Though I think you could probably do better if you looked carefully.

I dunno, I’m just so jaded of these crappy vets who somehow worm their way into lineups they have no business being in because of “leadership” or “grit” or whatever.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That I agree with

And “grit” is no part of my argument. I do, however, like to keep people around who can perform in Oakland, since players who should be better might severely underperform (Damon, of course, being exhibit A)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 15, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

2009 numbers are posted

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?pl=477165

 -4 in a years worth of games at 3B. If he can be -10 or better it’s probably worth keeping him at 3B.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Aug 14, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How does the reliability of this stuff compare to MLB numbers?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

less reliable, and the mlb numbers are not very reliable

but probably pretty good in a large sample (which 1 yr is definitely not.) It likes Pennington in a large sample…. I like Pennington even though he’s not too good….

metric explained:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/total_zone.shtml

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Aug 14, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looks pretty icky to me

But then, it does support my argument that Brett is worth more (both in absolute terms and to the A’s-as-currently-constructed) at 3B than 1B

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not really

If you take the -4 seriously, it puts him on the bubble, as major league 3Bmen are better than A/AA/AAA 3bmen, and the scouting consensus is likewise that he is pretty much on the bubble so it doesn’t really add much.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Aug 14, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't realize it was a non-absolute scale

I do think Wallace is more of an advantage at 3B for the A’s than for some other team, since we have Barton and Everidge at first and no one but Kennedy/Crosby at third.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

If anything, we should be looking to deal Kennedy now to a contending team that needs second base help. His value will never be higher.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 14, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Problem is, with his salary at the league minimum, the lowest-ranking "contender" in the AL is likely to claim him

and they’re unlikely to offer much in trade, since they’re probably a playoff longshot.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

but something is better than nothing. Anything better than Joe Dillon is a win at this point.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 17, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is no "right price"

Well, I suppose a minor league contract would be the right price. But he’ll get more than that.

Nothing about Adam Kennedy’s performance this year suggests that it was anything more than a pure fluke. His HR/FB this year is 3 or 4 times what it’s been in any of the past 4 years— and I doubt it’s because of the ol’ “mid-30s power spike” phenomenon.

He makes some sense as a utility player for a contending team. The A’s don’t need a utility player and they probably aren’t a contending team, so…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

...so then why sign Tim Hudson?

The young SPs are already up, so he doesn’t allow them to progress more slowly — that ship has sailed — and if you don’t seriously hope to contend and don’t care about the veteran presence / intangibles, then he makes less sense. Or else maybe Kennedy makes more sense (at the right low price) than you’re conceding?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really really really hope Cahill is not up for good

Also, Hudson would definitely be a multi-year deal and (if healthy) better than whoever the 5th starter would be in 2011 and 2012

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tim Hudson is a good major league pitcher

You may or may not remember this, but I wrote a short article about “playoff level” players a year or so ago. I observed that on average, you need to have your guys be worth between 2.5 and 3 wins above replacement a season to land a playoff spot. Everybody below that line is, in a certain sense, dragging you down (even though they aren’t without value to a team).

Assuming the A’s do their due diligence and make sure that Hudson is healthy and back to more or less the player he’s been with the Braves, he is that kind of pitcher (around 3 WAR a season with the Braves, not counting this year obviously). He is, in other words, part of the solution. Not all of the solution, but he fills a spot in a playoff lineup.

Kennedy, by contrast, is a lousy hole-filler that you have to cover for with the rest of your players— and what the current iteration of the A’s does NOT have many of, is guys who can cover up weaknesses.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I'm assuming that Huddy will be a lot more expensive

than Kennedy. I’m all for signing Huddy if he’s available, as I think he’s a great pitcher when healthy and a great leader for this staff no matter what.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 15, 2009 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, absolutely

but the point is, I’d much rather spend $10M on one real solution than on two not-really-very-good band-aids.

Truth be told, if there was any superstar-level option at 3B or SS hitting the market right now, I’d be advocating that the A’s be willing to expend essentially their entire available budget to land him. But… that player doesn’t exist.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

...like the giants

when they got garko and sanchez instead of going for holliday. the band-aids idea, anyway.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Aug 15, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or like Zito, as to expending their entire available budget to land a mega-star.

Wait, you say he’s not good anymore? Whoops.

To be fair, he hadn’t been good for quite some time, but that is the problem with putting all your eggs in one basket. If he’s a flop, then what?

by speckops on Aug 15, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Putting all your eggs in one basket is fine

Putting all your eggs in one basket case is not.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 15, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Don’t put all your eggs in one basket, then trade it for a hen who won’t ever produce like it used to.

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack

by GoA's on Aug 15, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder how many people, when they go shopping,

take some of the eggs out of the carton and put them in another carton just in case

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 15, 2009 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you could save the old one

problem solved

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Aug 16, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then, you pretend you're back to the Schott-Hoffman days

and work around it. C’est la guerre.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's been some semi persuasive talk about Washburn really truly improving

I just don’t see OF as such a pressing need, but then I also imagine Buck being allowed to play (speaking of “should” not “will”).

I take your point on the contract, but I just have trouble imagining a guy who made 22 starts with a 2.54 ERA (albeit a 3.69 FIP) not being offered more than $9 million total by some other team. Then, he shouldn’t even consider our deal.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reason why the deal is, I would hope, tempting

is that he’s actually about to start pitching again.

He could do well, or he could be terrible, or he could hurt himself again. He’s not going to hear “other offers” until the offseason— at which point he may be on the DL again.

If you figure he’s got a 50-50 chance of improving or hurting his stock from this point forward, that $9M could be worth as much as $15M would be at season’s end.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This, of course, assumes that Duke can make rational decisions based upon your perception of his chances of success

If he thinks he’s going to pitch great, that he feels good, etc. (as most elite athletes in the non-Chavez division do), he’ll react differently.

Also, while you’re right that getting hurt again would be bad for a future contract I’m not as sure pitching poorly would dramatically reduce future offers.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back!

You were missed.

I have a couple of questions about your proposals

The Escobar trade requires Hairston Coleman and Henriguez/Buck. Do you think this decimates our outfield depth next year, especially if you are trading Rajai Davis. Essentially you are left with Cunningham and Sweeney left as the only players who have ML outfield experience. Also doesn’t ATLs outfield get much much better in the next two years with Schaffer being more ready, Church still being there and Heyward on the way? Wouldn’t it not make sense for Atlanta to trade into the same hole that we put ourself into and have to go out and get a FA SS?

I think Hardy makes a much better candidate especially since his value has to be at a low point.

I think your Duke extension isn’t going to be agreed to by Duke since I don’t get the sense that the he likes the teams handling of his role over the last several years.

I think if you sign a 3bman like Beltre that solves your 1rst base problem with since I think it would be reasonable to expect one of Barton Wallace Everidge Doolittle to provide production there. Tejada might work well in a play wherever we suck the most SS or 3b kind of way, though we would probably have to pay a slight premium for him to do that and I would rather have Miggy than Scoot at the 2/20 price.

I think getting a bonafide starter gets to be problematic since we are probably going to have to DFA Eveland because we don’t have a spot for him and when Simmons and Outman are ready to step into the rotation, its going to be very crowded. Though for service time reasons sending all of them down for three weeks would be a great idea and doable with Hudson or someone else who because of past performance can be pushed into the rotation without making the players feel like they were getting screwed.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 13, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually, one play is to try to sell Atlanta on Rajai themselves

Put a bunch of metrics in front of them saying that McLouth is an awful CF and should be moved to a corner, then show them a Rajai highlight reel. He becomes the outfielder in the package— boom, problem solved.

Tell Duke you’ll only use him as a starter. Hell, put it in the contract if you have to, or something like a “contract may be voided at end of any season with 5 or more relief appearances” clause. The last thing the team needs is another relief pitcher anyway.

I just think Scutaro is a better player than Tejada at this point. He draws walks, he wastes pitches and he plays good defense. Tejada’s D isn’t the abortion it’s sometimes made out to be, but it’s nothing to write home about.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s impossible to ever have enough rotation depth ever. If Eveland’s not traded over the offseason, he should have as good a chance as anyone to make the team next year. The only “lock” I see in next season’s rotation is Dallas Braden.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brett Anderson

IMO is edging about as close to locked in to the rotation as one can get. Barring something unforeseen happening between now and next season, I see him as our #2.

by chipper1001 on Aug 13, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except Schaffer

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 3:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

D'oh

I meant to say that Schaffer’s minor league scouting reports claim that he is a very good defensive CFer, which makes trading Rajai to them more difficult. They also have Matt Diaz and Ryan Church who aren’t terrible either.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 3:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's a bit too fantasy an outcome (although I would, of couse, love it)

Why do you think Scutaro’s carreer year is for real?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't

If it was for real, he’d be commanding salaries in excess of $20M a season.

I think he’s a .720 OPS who plays good shortstop defense.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I expressed myself poorly

I didn’t mean that he’s actually this good, more that he’s actually (in any meaningful way) better than he has always been before.

His carreer line, after all, is a .321 wOBA guy with negative UZR (and that’s including this year).

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he plays to his career line, he's basically league-average, then (once you adjust for position)

That’s not a “win” at $9M a season, but it’s not a loss either.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you walk me through that math?

A season of .321 wOBA and -0.5 UZR is worth $9 million (note: serious question, not snark)?

(as an aside, good to have you back. this is the most interesting rolling debate I’ve had on this site in months)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can do that for you

20 Runs for replacement -.5 Fielding runs -4 BRAA 7.5 runs for position. So you are at 23 Runs above replacement which is 2.3 WAR which multiplied by $4.5m for a marginal win is about $9m

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hunh

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thx

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

NP

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 15, 2009 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Cameron

Cross Cameron off your list, as Cameron has shown often in the past that he will not sign with us. Even when we were good, Cameron did not want t go to Oakland. We failed to trade for him, and failed to sign him for those reasons.

For the 5th Starter slot, I think the A’s will go with another year of trying out the farm. They’ll have some sort of rotation of Gio, Outman, Eveland, Simmons and Mortensen until one of them sticks (like Outman did before his injury, and Gio is trying to do right now).

I do not think the A’s take a plunge into the Short Stop FA Market, unless they for whatever reason bring Cabrera back. I think they will play Pennington as a stopgap until better options materialize, and Escobar is one of those options.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That's as may be

I’m really bearish on things if Cameron’s not available. Byrd is intriguing but he got kinda redundant when the A’s acquired Hairston.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back PT!

Good to see you posting around here again!

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Aug 13, 2009 6:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post and I can say that I read every word.

Very good analysis with the exception of omitting Gio from the conversation. I don’t think we’ll need Duke next year but I still agree that 3/9 mil would be great for all sides. He certainly will bring back some of the fanbase who has been turned away over the last year and has way too much upside not to take the chance.

It’s extremely difficult not to get excited about the current level of play with the team “as is” but it feels like the team suddenly heated up simultaneously. I would hate to go into next season betting that today’s team could perform at this high of a level for all of 2010. I know that BB probably doesn’t worry too much about the angry fan who doesn’t see his plan but the smartest thing might be to build for 2011 and save some of the FA money in 2010.

It would be tough going through another year of average baseball but I think we could build a MONSTER for 2011 if that is the intention. We have so many promising pieces in the minors but most of them will simply not be ready for PT (prime-time) in 2010. Wait another year and I would say the Red Sox and Yankees will be playing in Oakland without home field advantage in 2011. That is what I truly believe.

These ain't your father's A's.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Aug 13, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Please explain.

Are you saying that it might be much more based on early signings and arby eligible players?

These ain't your father's A's.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Aug 13, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya, BB has alluded to that before.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Aug 13, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is also the issue that payroll flexibility is

only as good as the availability of players worth spending it on. I don’t think any FA class is worth the A’s burning $35-50 million, especially in 2011 when Wallace, Cardenas and Carter might be ready to audition at some key positions.

Bob Garen is incontinent

by Aufheben on Aug 14, 2009 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the biggest issue for 2010 is not to repeat the mistakes of 2009.

Mainly, don’t risk the future (sending someone unproven out there; Cahill/Anderson/Mazzaro for 09, Wallace/Carter/Cardenas etc for 10) and don’t force the issue of contention. It’s also vital the A’s figure out who’s a real MLB ballplayer for the future, meaning give everyone (Buck, Cunningham, Everidge, Pennington, Patterson, Davis etc) enough at bats to show what type of player they truly are.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Aug 13, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That is a good point.

However Anderson and Mazzaro are doing fine with on the job training. Anderson is pitching very well and never seems rattled. Mazzaro, on the other hand, has struggled but if you listen to his interviews, it’s easy to tell that he gets it. He generally has trouble for one inning in each outing so he is very close to figuring things out. I hope his last two outings are an indication of what he is about to become.

These ain't your father's A's.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Aug 13, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I think they're all gonna be fine once it's said and done.

But I wish we had that extra year of service time for Cahill/Anderson. Plus, even Anderson struggled at the beginning of the year. I think AAA time would have done them well. I think the A’s were wrong in principal to risk a couple of unproven arms on making the playoffs.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Aug 13, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if Beane's thinking was that

a good young pitcher hits his stride towards true excellence around year 3, not year 2, and this is just part of targeting 2011 as the next year to be really good.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 13, 2009 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hadn't thought of that. But isn't it closer to trading 2009 for 2014?

Ideally, the A’s are still in contention at that point, while it was a long shot to ask a rookie rotation to pitch a full season and then into October.

by rebus on Aug 13, 2009 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By 2014, though, two things are possible:

1. The starter has suffered an injury and wasn’t going to be a “contributor to count on” in 2014.

2. Before the pitcher hits arbitration, the A’s have done an extension, like they’ve done before, through the arby years and maybe through 2014 or 2015.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 13, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see your point, though I think it's not quite so clear cut.

The starters may suffer an injury from this, and subsequent, seasons of overuse. Most of the young guys haven’t pitched nearly this many innings before. And just because they’ve hypothetically negotiated an extension doesn’t mean they didn’t, most likely, take an overall loss in win value because they took a low percentage shot at ’09.

I think I’m having trouble framing this, but I wonder if 2011 really that much more important than 2012 or that final year before free agency.

by rebus on Aug 13, 2009 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The extension will cost more if you're buying out a free agent year than if you're buying out an arbitration year

Also, I still can’t figure out what was so bloody important that the team couldn’t have waited three weeks to call those guys up. I mean, if “year 3” starts in May 2011 instead of April… is that some kind of deal-breaker? Just made no sense at all.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This

Extensions are nice, but they cost a lot more when they’re non-arby years. See Longoria, E.

08:$0.5M, 09:$0.55M, 10:$0.95M, 11:$2M, 12:$4.5M, 13:$6M, 14:$7.5M club option ($3M buyout), 15:$11M club option, 16:$11.5M club option

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or, more directly,
if Longoria otherwise would be arbitration-eligible

    * after 2010, 2011 salary increases to $2.5M
    * after 2011, buyout for 2014 option increases to $4M

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey. You never know when you're getting ready to become Tampa Bay

either. BB’s biggest mistake was relying on veterans who simply didn’t come through. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Sometimes reliable everyday players like Casey Blake are better choices than going after guys who “may” have great seasons IF they stay healthy when history says otherwise.

These ain't your father's A's.

by ohtobe21likehuston on Aug 13, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the injuries/spring suckiness messed up the plan.

I do not think either of Cahill/Anderson would’ve been up had Duke been healthy and Gallagher/Gio shown any signs of being ready then Anderson may have been in the minors and Cahill would have been for sure at the start of the year.

by bloodshot13 on Aug 13, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if you missed it or just didn't edit your final version PT,

but Russ Springer was claimed by the Rays.

From Forst:

“We felt like it was a good opportunity to see some guys in Triple-A the last month of the season, and it gives Russ the chance to pitch in a pennant race,”

Welcome back PT.

by rebus on Aug 13, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Missed it

I think allowing him to go is the correct move, though.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Minor quibble: In your win projection, you mention Hairston and Escobar on the team...

Yet you traded Hairston as part of a package to acquire Escobar.

by rebus on Aug 13, 2009 7:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's pretend we traded Rajai instead or something

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that was worth the wait!

Welcome back. And as others have mentioned, where do you see Gio?

Bring Jerry back!

by ZigFan31 on Aug 13, 2009 7:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

in your basement?

;)

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Aug 13, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See above

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Woo-hoo, welcome back man!!!

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Aug 13, 2009 7:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Gah, I want Beltre really badly this off season. I doubt it happens at all, but I'd overpay some for him.

Maybe he can even show Wallace how to play third with some extra girth. And if the Braves pick up Hudson’s option, bringing back Scutaro, even after his career year, seems like the thing to do. None of these would be long term commitments, none of them are mediocre or filler (hi Emil Brown!), and the money should be spent somewhere.

by rebus on Aug 13, 2009 7:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, we could "have a ball" with Beltre

Cough.

Speaking seriously: his injuries kind of scare me. Very Chavezian. Although as I mentioned, it seems like every one of those glove-first 3B has some kind of recurring back or shoulder issue.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

3rd base and Wallace

It solves so many (expensive) problems for the A’s if Wallace can play it competently. You got to make sure it’s not an issue of confirmation bias with the scouts and this guy. The A’s have had plenty of success coaching up infield defense. The alternatives are ghastly. Feliz and Crede are .280 OBPs waiting to happen in the Coliseum. Figgins might be okay, but he’s a tough sign. Nothing else is out there for 2010. For 2011, the A’s can sign the corpse of Rolen or Lowell, or maybe persuade Jhonny Peralta to slide over. Far from ideal. Not a lot of high minors 3B lying around to trade for either at the moment (that at least could change quick), as has been covered on the site ad nauseum (plus the team can’t trade for a 3B and a SS). It’s really pick your poison, and Wallace may easily be the least deadly

I will eat my hat if they give Duke anything more than a one year deal with an option, which would be fine. $1.5m guarantee with 3.5m in incentives, and a $5m option would make sense. If he can get more than that, best of luck. A 3/9m may make sense for a bigger payroll team, but the A’s can’t lock up 5% of the payroll for three years on a player who probably will be mostly injured.

People will be annoyed with me writing this, but it’s probably a better idea to wait a year before the A’s start pouring payroll in and really charging hard. There are so many unknown quantities at the moment, and so much potential help on the way. With a little more information the A’s should be able to spend much more wisely and efficiently, allow them to better compete in the future. Spending on 2010 may detrimental to all but 2010.

by AgitationStation on Aug 13, 2009 8:00 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I kind of see this year as 1998 and next year as 1999,

with the playoff years to follow after.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 13, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that the 3base problem can be solved a couple of ways even without Wallace

Ranked in order of most optimal to least.

A) Eric Chavez drinks from the fountain of youth and returns to being a baller player

B) Adrian Beltre is signed for a reasonable 1 to 2 year deal and plays like he usually does AKA almost Eric Chavez’s prime. This allows Wallace to stay in AAA until he masters it. If he proves ready Beltre can be traded or Wallace take over at 1b if production there isn’t good. This also allows Cardenas to be ready for either 3b or 2b depending on who is playing better Wallace Ellis or Beltre.

C) Miguel Tejada is signed for a reasonable 1 to 2 year deal and hits well and plays ok D at 3b. This allows Wallace to stay in AAA until he masters it. If he proves ready Miggy can be traded or Miggy can take over at SS if production there isn’t good. This also allows Cardenas to be ready for either 3b or 2b depending on who is playing better Wallace Ellis Barton Pennington or Tejada.

D) Eric Chavez can make it three weeks before blowing up, saving a year of Wallace’s service time. Wallace plays defense and hits well enough to justify the Holliday trades.

E) Eric Chavez can make it three weeks before blowing up, saving a year of Wallace’s service time. Wallace plays defense poorly and is moved to 1b at the end of the year when Cardenas is ready to take over at 3b.

F) Eric Chavez can’t make it three weeks, Wallace starts the year in the bigs at 3b and holds his own.

G) Eric Chavez can’t make it three weeks, Wallace plays defense poorly and is moved to 1b at the end of the year when Cardenas is ready to take over at 3b.

H) We’re all going to die. We don’t sign anyone, Chavez gets hurt before three weeks is up, Wallace is just as bad or worse than people think, Cardenas is rushed up because Wallace can’t field and hits like crap. The A’s don’t contend and I go cry.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 13, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My concern is couldn't the A's sign Beltre,

and have him turn out to be chronically injured? Seems very A’s and somewhat “recent Beltre.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 13, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean this year?

Before this year he had 1 trip to the DL… back in 2001.

Yes hes occasionally banged up and misses a game or two here or there but he hasn’t had anything serious before his shoulder and ball got exploded this year.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 3:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought that trading Hanahan was one of Beane's stupider moves so that part started a while ago for me

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 3:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have an irrational anti-Hannahan bias (to go with my pro-Buck one)

So I was glad to see him go.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought they got decent value for him

although Souza’s certainly been doing his part to try to prove me wrong in Midland…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right I thought they did too

but that doesn’t mean that Hannahan’s value to the A’s as basically the only under contract viable 3b candidate at the time was the same as his market value for which Beane did well to maximize.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If nothing else, the A's have a $12M third base coach next season...

barring some kind of miracle, of course. I suppose stranger things have happened, but not often.

Duke is an upside play. Odds are you’ll lose your money, but the net payoff is positive. He’s really the only affordable “potential ace” on the market.

Ultimately, I came to the same conclusion you did as far as the “success cycle” is concerned. The fact that the thrice-damned Angels have suddenly and unaccountably pulled like 4 good-to-great hitters out of their collective nether regions has to play into this as well— they just don’t look nearly as vulnerable now as they did at the start of the year.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 13, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chavy can't coach 3B, because he can't wave runners in without going on the DL

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant "coach of the art of playing third base", sorry

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah. That can indeed be done from a wheelchair. Carry on.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hi PT. You gonna make an appearance at AN day?

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on Aug 13, 2009 8:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I didn't have my shit together to get tickets

but I might come by for the tailgate. It’s like August 23rd, right?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please do.

The details are here.

Welcome back.

by lynnzgal on Aug 14, 2009 5:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Righto, chaps

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, we'd be honored!

"Paul Thomas is breaking something somewhere" ~jeepers

by OptimistPrime on Aug 16, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

August 22nd

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Aug 14, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto

It looks like thats how ill be showing up too.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

right on

Because I still don’t believe you are as young as you say. (ha)

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Aug 14, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have some tickets with the group that I am not going to use....

Interested?

"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?" Yogi Berra

by BERRYJO on Aug 16, 2009 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

YES!

I thought I was going to be moving out of the state for a job but it got delayed so I would love to be able to go with the group. Send me an email, its in my profile.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 16, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sent you an email (monday PM).

"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?" Yogi Berra

by BERRYJO on Aug 17, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, so I seem to have somehow been admitted to (and agreed to join) the Law Journal

For those of you not familiar with this phenomenon, it basically involves impressing employers by doing a bunch of boring, often frustrating work and not getting paid for it. They love that stuff— I wonder why?

Anyway, the orientation is that day and runs until theoretically 3:30 p.m. Although who knows with this stuff, really. Clearly it’s going to be a game-time decision.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You should do it

It’s one of two enduring credentials you can get in law school.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 16, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and obviously it's a wash if BART is striking

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 16, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back, PT.

I had no idea when I sat down after dinner that I was going to be reading a novella. But it was a good read. Thanks!

by LoneStranger on Aug 13, 2009 8:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

WOW - Who knew there was so much to say? Glad to read it and hope there's more of this in our future!

Posts like this one are one of the reasons I love this site. I admire those of you who know what the hell you are talking about and enlighten those of us who are content to be students of baseball.

I, for one, would like to see Huddy come back. I think there would be a tremendous upside to his presence in the clubhouse and working with the young staff. He’s a proven leader and I always liked his dogged determination. Of course the downside also exists since we will not know how he will perform after the TJ surgery. Would he be happy with a role in the bullpen? Is that where people see him? Fun speculation on him – for sure

"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?" Yogi Berra

by BERRYJO on Aug 13, 2009 9:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He's a no-go if he's bullpen bound

The A’s don’t want, don’t need and can’t afford to pay real money for bullpen pitchers.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cahill and Anderson

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I don’t see how you can say that the

decision to start the season with Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson in the big-league rotation […] did the team no favors from a winning standpoint.

Just to be clear, I’m not questioning your point about the service time, nor that the two youngsters were rushed. I think those are very valid objections that may well justify saying it was a bad decision.

But purely “from a winning standpoint”, surely it did do the team favors. What were the alternatives? Sure, Cahill and Anderson have struggled, but they’ve still been a heck of a lot better than some hideous combination of Dana Eveland, Sean Gallagher, Edgar Gonzalez, Dan Giese, and Jerome Williams that would have taken their place. Which of those guys would you rather have starting 40% of the team’s games?

Surely the argument you meant to make is that putting Cahill and Anderson in the rotation to start the season did do the team favors from a winning standpoint, but you don’t think it was worth it and would have rather taken the extra losses in order to keep them in AAA a while longer.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Aug 13, 2009 9:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

They're in last place.

They’d be there whether Cahill & Anderson are in the rotation or not.

CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."

by DMOAS on Aug 13, 2009 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, and they'd be wearing white shoes whether

Cahill & Anderson are in the rotation or not. How is this relevant?

Paul didn’t say “in terms of standings within the division”, he said “from a winning standpoint”. Wins are wins regardless of where you rank in the division.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Aug 13, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Cahill's case, he has pitched about as bad as any one of those guys you listed probably would've pitched.

And arguably, Eveland and Gallagher probably would’ve performed better.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Aug 13, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eveland has a AAA ERA and WHIP of 4.97/1.51

I can’t see how that would translate to anything better than Cahill’s big-league numbers. Gallagher’s been hurt almost the entire year, so he’s a moot point.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 14, 2009 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh, Dana Eveland's MLE indicates that his minor league performance would probably translate to a 5.85 FIP in the big leagues.

Cahill’s FIP is about 5.81. I’d definitely have Eveland pitching instead, considering arby years, etc. Also, SSS to be sure, but Eveland’s tRA in his few starts this year is about 5.50. Cahill’s is 6.61.

But since most people on this site have an inherent dislike of Eveland, you could still pitch [any random 5th starter] and probably get a better performance out of them than Cahill’s.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Aug 14, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

I’m looking for the argument that Eveland will be better. I prefer the large sample of suck in Sacramento (partly because it is more alliterative).

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 14, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read this again.
Eh, Dana Eveland’s MLE indicates that his minor league performance would probably translate to a 5.85 FIP in the big leagues. Cahill’s FIP is about 5.81. I’d definitely have Eveland pitching instead, considering arby years, etc.

His “suck” would translate roughly to the same amount of “suck” Cahill has provided. Therefore, if “suck” was the option, then I would prefer the Eveland brand instead of the promising rookie brand.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Aug 14, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This This This

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 15, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got that the first time.

It was your original statement that Eveland would have performed better. It seems you have clarified your stance to acknowledge that he would not have in fact performed better, but you would rather have Eveland on the roster given equal or negligably worse performance from him.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 17, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edgar Gonzalez has a tRA of about 4.8

Cahill has a tRA of ohmygodmakeitstop.

As far as those two are concerned, the A’s would probably win more this year if they made the change now, much less at the beginning of the year. Anderson at this point is one of the 5 best pitchers on the staff, but he was really subpar in April (his components, too, not just his ERA). I doubt Joe Replacement Level would have been any worse, really.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just going to make this point

E-Gon is nobody’s ace, but he’s miles better today than Cahill (which was, of course, the book on Cahill – tons of potential but nothing like ready).

That’s been one of the worst decisions of the year.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This.

And, unless Cahill really puts it together for the end of this season, he needs to start next season in AAA.

For both the sake of service time (which is huge) and development, he needs to be starting in AAA.

"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West

by Blicks on Aug 14, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

EGon actually reminds me a ton of Cahill.

Which yes, is a terrible thing to say. But both were top (kinda) prospects with good sinking stuff, and both have issues with control and not losing their minds on the mound. Hopefully Cahill doesn’t follow the career path of EGon, but this year he has been very EGonesque.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Aug 14, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

21 years old

perfect reason to send him back down.

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Aug 14, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

welcome back PT

im overjoyed your’e back. But this is way too long for me to read right now

"Sometimes Joe (morgan) doesn't like facts to get in the way of his opinions."- billy beane
"That was a great pick...if this was 2002" Me, to guy who selected Barry Zito in a fantasy draft
www.27ClubPeak.blogspot.com

by harendaman365 on Aug 13, 2009 9:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You have certainly bypassed the whole your/you're conundrum with flair!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 13, 2009 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, i didnt even realize

thats one small step for grammatical inaccuracy, one giant leap for…someone finish the joke?

"Sometimes Joe (morgan) doesn't like facts to get in the way of his opinions."- billy beane
"That was a great pick...if this was 2002" Me, to guy who selected Barry Zito in a fantasy draft
www.27ClubPeak.blogspot.com

by harendaman365 on Aug 16, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cool...PT is back

I may have to dust off my old sigline:


Your 2009 Oakland Athletics: This time it’s Personal

I said "Why not baseball?" He said he hated baseball and demanded we NEVER speak of it again. He then, oddly enough, walked repeatedly into my fists and feet. So weird that he would do that! - TwistNHook, CGB

by Kallus on Aug 13, 2009 9:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Random dots connecting, but did anyone else play "Leather Goddesses of Phobos" back in the day?

If I’m not mistaken, after hooking up with the beautiful Martian harem girl, you have to tell her to “kiss my kneecaps” to get her to open the trapdoor to the catacombs wherein you find the Cleveland phone directory.

If you haven’t played it, yes, that game is every bit as weird (and sexually explicit) as that snippet makes it sound like.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ick

Text based.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I loved those text-based adventure games back in the day

which isn’t to say that I was any good at them.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I couldn't stand them because

I didn’t have the patience to figure out whether I needed to type “reach for magic wand” / “pick up wand” / “get wand” / etc.

Also, there gets to be a point where it’s less about solving riddles and more about guessing how the creator’s mind works. To each their own, of course, but not fun for me.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is hilarious
Some material in this story may not be suitable for children, especially the parts involving sex, which no one should know anything about until reaching the age of eighteen (twenty-one in certain states). The story is also unsuitable for censors, members of Moral Majority, and anyone else who thinks that sex is dirty rather then fun.

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 14, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great writeup PT

Your return has brought about something else of great importance — the return of Chris Denorfia to AN Fanposts!

by AsFanInLA on Aug 14, 2009 12:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Why don't we trade from our deep pool of pitching and get a monster bat for once.

I’d give up a Cahill, Outman and a couple Bucks and Sweeneys for an under contract Adrian Gonzales. The Padres (more then Atlanta) need everything too

by petitceebee on Aug 14, 2009 12:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the A's rotation is nearly as deep as you seem to

and as I mentioned, there’s too much ground to make up for that sort of move to make much sense. Not to mention that 1B should be covered from the farm by 2011.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couple things

1. Still high on Denorfia? The .615 MLE OPS from the 29 year old hasn’t thrown you off the bandwagon?

2. Love the Yunel idea. He’s my top choice next year at SS. Hardy is second. Pennington should not be the starting SS for a major league team.

3. Beltre and Cameron are both interesting ideas that I’d consider. Although Cameron doesn’t want to come to Oakland.

4. As sad as I would be to see it happen, I think Duke’s gone after the season. Per SuSlu:

He’ll be a free agent and he is not expected to come back to Oakland.

5. Duke may be a Type B FA though. The rankings as of the 9th say he’s the fifth lowest ranked Type B at 62.16 (cutpoint at 55.867), but he is there. Certainly worth offering arby.

6. Wholeheartedly agree on the Anderson/Kurt extensions.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Aug 14, 2009 12:23 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

1. No, not really-- his day has probably come and gone

4. Isn’t part of that that Oakland isn’t expected to make him any kind of reasonable offer?

5. The Elias system is coked out. But, you knew that already.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: #5

Would make a lot of sense for the A’s to get him back in the rotation to make sure he stays on the list.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 14, 2009 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, putting him back in the rotation is likely to damage his position on the list

I know that’s insane. The system is, without a doubt, insane. They have got to do something about it at the next CBA.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's interesting.

How does it damage him? I know the system is nuts, but don’t understand it well enough to appreciate the mechanics of how it would hurt him. Is it a sort of “nothing to gain, but everything to lose” proposition, in that pitching well (which, FWIW, I believe he will) will do little if anything to help, but getting shelled would dramatically hurt him?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 14, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

The Elias rankings use a number of rate stats which are unadjusted for playing time (like ERA). His ERA is likely to regress anyway, and being injured all of this season can’t have helped. He’ll never catch anyone in the “games started” or IP columns, so it’s pretty much a pure negative.

They ALSO, and this is one of those things that makes you just scratch your head, include some kind of adjustment to players’ COUNTING stats for time lost to injury! In other words, if you spend 2 months on the DL, they will actually add in extra HR or RBI or strikeouts as if you had still been playing! I think there’s a limit to this, and if there is Duke has probably hit it, so I don’t think it’s relevant here as much as the rate-stat thing is— I just thought I’d complain about how silly it is.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no negativity?

everybody saying “welcome back,”

but nobody saying, “but… but… he killed dogs!”

And how the hell is he going to get any playing time behind McNabb anyway?

(turning to listen as friendly person in A’s jacket whispers in my ear)

Not Vick? PT’s back? Who? AN? What?

Where am I?

(waking up in my own bed…)

Oh, it was all just a weird dream…

(turns over to tell Suzanne Pleshette all about it, only to find Emil Brown’s severed head in my bed)

"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard

by Gaijin_Suketto on Aug 14, 2009 12:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Next year's Branyan

Russell Branyan has been mentioned a few times, and that reminds me of something I’ve been wanting to ask you, Paul.

As I understand it (and please correct me if I’m wrong), the reason you advocated signing Branyan before this season is not because you had a magic crystal ball that told you he would have a career year. Rather — and I think you explained this in at least one of your posts — it was because you theorized that TTO type players are more likely to be streaky than other players, and then combining that with the fact TTO players tend to be underrated by certain scouty types anyway, you figured that an excellent way to find a bargain player is to look for a TTO type hitter coming off an unusually bad year. Lo and behold, there was Branyan, with numbers looking every bit like a decent TTO hitter going through a bad slump.

Am I following your reasoning so far? If so, then I assume the conclusion would not be that we should try to sign Branyan for 2010, since now he’s a decent TTO coming off of an unusually good year. Instead we should be looking for an otherwise decent TTO type player who is currently undervalued because he’s been slumping lately. Any thoughts on player you might suggest as someone like this to try to sign or acquire for 2010? (Um, besides the obvious one that’s already on our team, I mean.)

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Aug 14, 2009 12:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Pat Burrell on a waiver claim, maybe?

I’m going to need to do some real research and get back to you on this one.

By their nature, home runs are less predictable/streakier than singles (which are less predictable than walks). Lots of value concentrated into occasional events means that if those occasions don’t “occasion” themselves, you’re going to look like a terrible hitter. The more “homerun-centric” a player is, the more he’ll tend to go through apparent dry spells, although this is counterweighed by the fact that HR hitters tend to walk more and walks are more consistent than singles.

Today’s extreme example of homeruncentricity would be Chris Davis, who was talked up as a future superstar after last season and has basically been written off completely this season. I don’t think he’s in play, though.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 14, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Richie Sexson!!!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aubrey Huff?

I think he’s a FA in 2010, right? Do you think his down season means he could be undervalued, or does it just mean he’s washed up?

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Aug 14, 2009 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice to see this place so excited.

PT, your writing is a thing of beauty. This piece is a true pleasure to read.

by IM4Oakgal on Aug 14, 2009 12:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We have Kila's younger brother Kala

He just got cut from the Braves. I played against Kala in high school when he was at Iolani, he was a monster like his brother. Thinking about it he probably has the ceiling of a right handed 1B Jack Cust.

by rightbackin on Aug 14, 2009 2:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back PT

You have been missed

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Aug 14, 2009 2:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back.

This is a nice summation of what the A’s look like, and good evidence that the A’s aren’t going to be competitive again until—and unless—people like Carter, Cardenas, and Wallace make a real impact, which probably isn’t next season.

A few things I really like:

1) Signing Huddy again. It gets a little crowded at the inn unless you let Cahill and/or Mazzaro or Gio spend next year in AAA (or include one in an Escobar trade), but it’s hard not to like having Tim Hudson.
2) Making a real play for Yunel Escobar. I’m not sure what you proposed is enough to get it done, but I’d be willing to pay a lot to make it happen. The backup plan is solid, too.
3) I am amused that your man-love for Chris Denorfia persists.

A couple of quibbles:

1) The Kila monster isn’t going to work. Unless I’m reading it wrong, he’s an utter trainwreck of a first baseman, and is really a DH at the big league level
2) I don’t think Jack Cust’s decline is related entirely—or even primarily—to messing with his approach. He was too successful the first six weeks of the season for this to be the case. I think he is genuinely not as good as his success in ‘07/’08 suggests. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he’s bad. I just think he’s a seat warmer until Chris Carter is available to replace him.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 14, 2009 7:30 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So the rumors are true.

Nice to see you, PT. You and Taj on the same day? Doubly nice.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Aug 14, 2009 8:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

TWSS
You and Taj on the same day? Doubly nice.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 14, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awww

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just hope that horny monkey

is wearing a condiment.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Aug 14, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, not mustard or relish or pickles...

…hmmm….

Twitter went down today--if only there were some short, shallow, self-indulgent way to express my horror.-Stephen Colbert

by Leopold Bloom on Aug 14, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I asked you kindly to grab hold of him next time he wandered in here.

And you let him go. Again!

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Aug 14, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay,

So we get a box and a stick with a string attached to it.

We get a bunch of bananas and a mess of kraut and place both under the box, which is propped up on the stick, open-side facing down. We lead the string into the bushes.

Then we wait.

Twitter went down today--if only there were some short, shallow, self-indulgent way to express my horror.-Stephen Colbert

by Leopold Bloom on Aug 14, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Aug 14, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

quiet, you.

I’m hunting monkeys.

Twitter went down today--if only there were some short, shallow, self-indulgent way to express my horror.-Stephen Colbert

by Leopold Bloom on Aug 14, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Monkeys can hear an ellipsis?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that one can.

he lives off ’em.

Twitter went down today--if only there were some short, shallow, self-indulgent way to express my horror.-Stephen Colbert

by Leopold Bloom on Aug 14, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Someone tell him that with three dots you don't get eggroll.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Save Rajai Davis

by oakinboston on Aug 14, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The trap is set

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack

by GoA's on Aug 14, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Day-o!

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Aug 15, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Six hand, seven hand,

thousand hand … BUNCH!

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Aug 15, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This reminds me of...

this

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 15, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've always wondered about this

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Aug 15, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And not paying?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 14, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh

rec’d before read

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Aug 14, 2009 1:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Isn't that bad luck?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Aug 14, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was

“rec’d before read except after c.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I neighrly

c what you did there.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Aug 14, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Put i before e, except after c,

and we’ll all achei—

Er…

Do well!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I before E

except after C
or when sounding like A
as in “neighbor” and “weigh”
and on weekends and holidays
and all throughout May
and you’ll always be wrong,
no matter what you say!

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack

by GoA's on Aug 14, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

weird

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Aug 15, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely veiry wierd.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 15, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's part of a Brian Regan sketch

Great underrated comedian.
Here’s the spelling bee sketch with the I before E rule. If baseball’s your thing, and I’m guessing it might be, here’s a fun one about how bad he was in little league.

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack

by GoA's on Aug 15, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that was a pleasant surprise

And a good day to you, Sir!

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Aug 14, 2009 2:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Huddy is apparently looking impressive in rehab

He could be activated by early September if things continue to improve as they have been. As for now he’s at about 91-93 and the splitter is looking sharp. Count me in as a member of the Bring Huddy Back movement. I frankly think he’s still got it.

The whole story is here.

by Axl on Aug 14, 2009 3:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, keep in mind that if he looks 100% "back," the Braves are likely to use his option year

I’d guess it’s less than 50-50 odds he hits the market this offseason, but who knows really.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back, PT.

I appreciate the effort here, especially with breaking down the future payroll obligations of this team. My outlook right now for this team is a just little different than yours. I basically agree with one of the posters above who said that this off-season isn’t an ideal time to look into making wholesale changes to the major league roster and/or sign veterans to multi-year deals. This team finally has some decent position player prospects all over the diamond, and I’d like this team to have the flexibility to promote these players whenever they’re major league ready without regard to the playing time situation of a 30+ “Ok” player recently signed to a multi-million dollar 3-year deal. I also don’t think that the impending free agent class matches up very well with the immediate or long-term needs of the organization. I’m just not that excited about most of the guys you mentioned in the post. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part, I think 2010 should be mostly another “evaluation” year.

Even so, I think some modest improvements could be made without throwing too many millions or too many years at questionably effective/questionably healthy free agents such as Adrian Beltre, Magglio or Mike Cameron or sacrificing any premium talent to acquire a questionably “available” player like Yunel Escobar.

I’d do a few things differently…but I do wholeheartedly endorse a reunion with Huddy, if he does in fact become a free agent. I’d go something like 2-years, $16 million, with an option for a 3rd year. I’d also do a 1+1 year option with Adam Kennedy for something like $2.5 million next season, $3 million in 2011 with a $500K buyout. Depending on the physical state of Chavez, I’d then look to sign a DH like Jim Thome or Hideki Matsui. Then, I’d offer Clayton Mortensen, Michael Wuertz and Ryan Sweeney for JJ Hardy (I think that would be the best the Brew Crew could do for Hardy, addressing needs for decent pitching, left-handed bats and a possible CF replacement for Cameron – while it wouldn’t cost the A’s any pieces they’d miss long-term).

I’d build the team with pitching and defense in mind (with one exception), and build an offense that resembles the current offense. I’d open the season with a 6-man rotation, going Huddy, Braden, Anderson, Cahill, Mazzaro and Gio, in that order – the rotation would protect the young arms. I’d go a bullpen of Bailey, Devine, Ziggy, H-Rod, Gray, Breslow and Marshall. Then for the lineup, I’d go:

CF – Raj
3B – Kennedy
LF – Hairston
DH – Chavez/Thome/Matsui
SS – Hardy
RF – Cust
C – Suzuki
1B – Barton
2B – Ellis

Pennington is super-sub of the infield. Buck/Cunningham would be Cust’s caddy in right field. The team’s up-the-middle defense would be rock solid, the entire infield would be above-average defensively, and two-thirds of the outfield would be above-average as well. Rajai’s well above-average range would somewhat mitigate Cust’s non-existent range. The lineup might not score a whole bunch of runs (especially if Hardy/Cust continue to plummet in productivity, Barton doesn’t show some kind of sustained ability to hit MLB pitching or Raj falls precipitously down to Earth. But I don’t think that lineup needs to do anything it wouldn’t normally be able to do in order for the team to compete. The top and bottom of the lineup can manufacture/scratch some runs across the plate, while the middle of the lineup features a 3-4-5-6 combo that could all hit 20 homers.

I think this unit could easily be modified as well if the team or individual players struggle or if prospects force their way onto the team. Wallace could take over for Kennedy at any point, and Chris Carter could step in as well late in the year for the “take your pick” DH. I also think that bulking up/stockpiling with a 6-man rotation (plus maybe the return of Outman late in the season?) sets the team up for a major in-season acquisition if this team is in the race.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Aug 14, 2009 4:21 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Wow, just lost a really good post, darn internet...

In short, Taj’s ideas are better than PTs. Hardy, for what we give up (Gonzalez/Mazzaro, Wuertz, Hairston) > Escobar. PTs 3B ideas are dated – AK is the best deal of the bunch and (gasp!) he actually wants to play here. Not a rare find.

I would still change a few things here:

- Huddy is not a good gamble – he was oft-injured before TJ.
- No more wasting money/wasting roster spots on DHs , although Matsui and Thome are interesting, they would lose about 100 ops pts changing to the Coli and to our lineup – Cust is our DH for one more frustrating year, Buck/Cunningham in RF.

I’m not kissing any ass here, your ideas, other than locking up our youngsters, are rusty, PT. Maybe after two hundred more posts this week, you’ll be back up to speed.

Let’s save our money for Crawford and Reyes in 2011 and 2012.

by librariansunite on Aug 14, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, keep in mind, this post was kind of a Paul In Hypothetical-Land adventure story

and not an actual prescription for what ought to happen. In fact, doing this post is precisely what’s convinced me that the A’s should NOT make significant expenditures in the short-term.

I don’t really see how either that team or my hypothetical Cameron/Byrd/Crede concoction is going to win the division next season, is the problem. I suppose the A’s could be like this year’s Angels and suddenly have like 5 players all break out at the same time, but it’s not likely.

As I’ve said above, I don’t see how Kennedy does anything other than interfere with “evaluation” of players and waste money. There are probably a number of minor league third basemen who I’d rather plug in. Joe Dillon comes to mind.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apologies

Forgot about the “hypothetical/trying to make moves.” I still think the Hardy deal would be a valuable one – hopefully, he would be a Type B once we’re through with him.

What do you think about Crawford and Reyes in 2011/2012? Who would you target, long-term?

by librariansunite on Aug 15, 2009 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, personally, I don't like Carl Crawford at all and never have

I think he’s overrated and likely to be overpaid, and his various inexplicable phobias (in particular w/r/t playing center field) irritate me. I’d be happy to let the Angels sign him to an $80M contract, frankly.

I can’t see Reyes reaching free agency without an extension unless his injury problems become intractable.

Looking at that list… jeez, it’s even more disturbing than this year’s list… good depth at SP right now (Halladay, Lee, Webb, Vasquez, Blanton, Hudson [assuming option is picked up], Beckett, Lilly) but that depth tends to vanish as guys get extensions and hopefully the A’s won’t need to go there.

I’d put in a pretty big bid on Joe Mauer (with the intent to convert him into a 3B) but I don’t think the A’s can beat out the Red Sox or Yankees (and they’re likely to be bidding against BOTH of them on Mauer).

I don’t know, I’m not sure I really believe that it’s possible to target free agents “long-term.” I mean, I want Grady Sizemore too, but will he actually be a free agent after 2012? If so, will he still be good? Who knows?

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will have a fanpost on this topic soon (the long-term FA targets)

Probably my last one for a while since the school year is about to start.

The Cliff’s Notes is that I’d advocate a ~$40M big-league payroll for the next two-plus seasons, then splurge for the “headliner” player from a free agent class over one of the next 3-5 seasons (2012-2014), once that player is supplementing the impressive talents of our full-grown pitching staff and the offensive talents of Carter/Weeks/Cardenas/Wallace and Co.

Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.

by notsellingjeans on Aug 15, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good to see you back, PT! :-D

Prithee, be not perturbed by yon third bagger.

by Poppy on Aug 14, 2009 5:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't wait for PT's next fanpost,

“Me Blog Pretty One Day.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 14, 2009 5:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

More likely to be "Corey Brown hit pretty one day"

based on the bits and pieces I have in the drafts file…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope not

otherwise I may find myself putting my newfound legal skills to good use…

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 15, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if the Athletics acquire Bill Hall as the stop-gap at 3B?

As long as most of his contract is paid by someone else, I kind of like the idea.

Also, regarding Lackey: even though the Athletics have unproven starting pitching coming out their orfices, Lackey would be an excellent pursuit for the team if the contract he demanded were not so long and not too scary. That guy can pitch, knows the AL, and would dominate at home if <a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6953/splits;ylt=Akqvv40p557qdYwEFF9Nqd2FCLcF?yeylt=Akqvv40p557qdYwEFF9Nqd2FCLcF?year=career&type=Pitchingar=career&type=Pitching" target="_blank">http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6953/splits;_ylt=Akqvv40p557qdYwEFF9Nqd2FCLcF?year=career&type=Pitchingar=career&type=Pitching" target="new">past performance is any indication of future results.

Top-notch post, PT. Rec’d.

by LowcountryJoe on Aug 16, 2009 6:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

All is right in the world again. Welcome back you cantankerous bastard.

"Paul Thomas is breaking something somewhere" ~jeepers

by OptimistPrime on Aug 16, 2009 12:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

hahahahaha +1

Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.

by designatedforassignment on Aug 16, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now that's a welcome I can get on board with!

Kidding aside, thanks for the kind words, everyone.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 16, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cameron over Rajai?

A 37 year old in an era and at an age when we’re bound to see precipitous declines over a 29 year old who offers speed and energy on a team that tends to play in a lackadaisical manner? I’d be extremely hesitant at this point in putting any money in a position player over the age of 35 until we all see how the post-PED, post-amphetamine era shakes out. (Amphetamines are important because they operate against fatigue, which becomes more and more of a factor the older you get).

Also, re: Pennington. It may be you’re right, Paul, and the guy isn’t a starter…but sometimes player mature in the major leagues in ways you won’t expect from their minor league statistics, such as Kurt Suzuki. I might be inclined to give him more of a look-see, particularly if he continues to play well the rest of the way in 2009.

Other than that, really, welcome back. Despite the flare-ups, AN was a far poorer place, far duller and less literate, without your presence. Seriously.

by richwol1 on Aug 16, 2009 12:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Pennington's certainly got at least the rest of the season to show something

No reason not to give it to him (ludicrous Crosby whining aside).

I’ve made my feelings about Rajai Davis felt in various places. He does have speed and defense, which are nice— but as a hitter, he’s subpar. His upside is very limited and I don’t want him taking at-bats, roster space and money that could be used on some of the many up-and-coming outfield prospects the A’s have. He’s more valuable to a contending team that actually needs a backup CF, which is why I suggest trading him.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 16, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm wondering if people are selling Rajai short as a platoon hitter

One of the reasons he’s not going to be a good hitter in general is that his recognition of breaking pitches against RHPs rivals that of Bobby Crosby.

But it seems perfectly possible to me that Rajai could put up a .277/.339/.382 against LHP — in fact that’s exactly what he’s done for his career to date — or better, and that would make him pretty useful given his speed and CF defense.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 16, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's a tolerable platoon CF, yeah

But the thing is, the A’s already have a better one (Scott Hairston). Hairston can take CF against lefties and move to LF against righties.

Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving

by PaulThomas on Aug 16, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd have to see more, but what I saw of Hairson in CF...

made me wonder if that will work.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 16, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto

Hairston was very close to terrible in CF, far worse than either Davis or Sweeney. Some of that may not show up in the stats — Hairston just didn’t seem to know how to take a good route to the ball, how to play the ball off the wall, how to make a proper throw from center to the infield/cut-off man, or how to take charge when dealing with balls in the gaps. Some of that may have been issues related to an unfamiliar park, but a lot of it seemed to be him unable to play the position at an acceptable level. Hairston looks much more comfortable in LF.

I also agree with Nico that Davis could be quite valuable in a CF platoon, and otherwise available as a late-inning defensive replacement/pinch runner. The A’s have been very reluctant the last several years to platoon players even when it seems to make sense, and I’d like to see them get over that.

by andyinfremont on Aug 17, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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