J.J. Hardy demoted, Brewers need a good SP.
The Brewers optioned Hardy to AAA this morning.
This doesn't seem like a smart way to handle his trade value, but it does seem like an indication of the beginning of the Alcides Escobar era in America's brew haven.
I have seen a bit of discussion on AN about Hardy, whether or not he is worth trying to acquire, who the A's should offer, etc. I haven't seen anything linked to a possible Duchscherer for Hardy swap.
I know Duke has yet to start a game for the A's in 2009, although rehab is going well according to the A's, and it looks as if he will probably be up sometime in the next week or two.
It is apparent that the Brewers need a starter.
If Duchscherer has a good 2009 debut, does anybody think that the Brewers may get into trade discussions with Beane?
I am no good at trade proposals, suffering from the popular delusion that all potential trades will be winners for the A's, so I want to ask the great people of AN:
What trade value does Hardy have, especially now that he's been demoted?
What trade value does Duchscherer have, without any MLB innings under his belt in 2009?
What value would need to be added from either team to constitute a "win-win" trade?
Is it smart to even pursue Hardy?
I remember reading a post or comment about the strategy of the original Holliday trade somewhere in here (sorry original poster) and the specific circumstances, and how a similar trade for a Carl Crawford or J.J. Hardy in the offseason (one year left on the contract, could be flipped later if not winning) could be something to consider.
I think it should be considered, possibly pursued, by Beane and Melvin.
The best trades are the ones that both teams walk away feeling like winners, and I think with the right mix of players, a common ground could be found in a Duke/Hardy deal. It just depends on how much the A's are willing to give up for a struggling SS, or how much the Brewers are willing to hedge their bets on an injury-prone, yet dominant starting pitcher.
Duchscherer may be gone for nothing after 2009, maybe not. Maybe he re-signs. If the A's can use him to acquire someone like Hardy, who will be a significant defensive upgrade at SS with a track record of decent, streaky, yet successful hitting in the bigs, I think they should at least try.
I'm sure they are probably testing the waters, but curious to see what all of you think.
By the way, here's a good read at Brew Crew Ball about the demotion.
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Duchscherer wouldn't pass through waivers.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Good point; I wonder if he's been put on waivers yet, and if so, if he's been pulled back after a claim.
Would that be reported? I know the Guzman waiver situation was well-reported, but not every transaction is covered, if I understand correctly.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Aug 12, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I think there's a good chance he'd pass through
he’s anything but a sure thing, so I think this mostly would have to be about if Milwaukee wants Duke. I doubt many teams would take a flier on him when they have no idea what to expect. So whoever wants him (and that won’t be a long list) can probably have him without fear of another claim.
There are enough tight races that someone will take the risk
GMs do all manner of crazy things when the playoffs are on the line.
And Duke is a VERY good pitcher. You’ll get some very good innings out of him. The question is whether those innings will number 100 or 10.
by eastbayexpat on Aug 12, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea, I was thinking the chances aren't great he'll pass through, but it's not automatic that
he doesn’t, and since the Brewers are one team definitely looking for a starter, they’d be one more likely to put in a claim.
I know he’d have to go through a lot of AL teams first, but like you said, maybe the mystery of his health makes teams hesitate. Plus he can always be pulled back.
I wonder how much goes on between GMs as far as positioning a player on waivers and if GMs have pre-emptive statements like “if you aren’t willing to part with player x or equal value, don’t bother claiming him because I’ll pull him back.”
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Aug 12, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah but there's zero risk in claiming him for a team like, say, Boston.
They just released Smoltz. They need an arm. If Duke were waived, Boston could claim him and then nobody else in the NL could even TRY to get him, because Boston is an AL team and gets priority over the whole NL.
It would cost them essentially nothing to claim him, whether they work out a deal or not.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Or the Angels...
subtract Hardy, insert Wood…
haha
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Aug 12, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I doubt Boston would claim Duke. They already have a reclamation project with the recent signing of Paul Byrd, and 5-6 starters as it is. But the Yankees who have been looking into Arroyo from the Reds would possibly claim him as might the Angels. But simply pull him back off waivers or work out a deal if one of those teams claim him. Duke isn’t in our future plans so anything we get from him would be a plus. Even trading with the Angels really doesn’t matter right now because we are so far behind. It would also just be a two month rental at this point anyway.
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 12, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Just claiming him would be easy for any team, and the Brewers are WAY down the list in the claim order.
I have no doubt that Boston would claim him, which would block Milwaukee.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
I wouldn't be surprised if Beane put him on waivers immediately Aug 1 and he cleared.
Duke has a very healthy salary at $3.9m so to claim him is basically $1m which for someone who around Aug 1 had not pitched all year and had been scratched from their rehab start for mysterious reasons. In this economic climate, I would think that most GMs would pass on that.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps that's WHY they scratched him...to scare away potential claimers?
OrtizItThisOne: In the name of baseball! /does steroids
by CaliforniaJag on Aug 12, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought of that. It seems devious so of course I like it.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
My thinking too
This is what I was thinking too. And the part about not making his scheduled start too.
I still don't get it
Aside from a couple 20+ homer seasons, what has Hardy really done? Last year was the only season that was demonstrably above average and this one pretty easily offsets it. He doesn’t run and while at least he doesn’t strike out a ton he doesn’t walk much either. I guess a SS who averaged about a hit a game in 2007 and 2008 looks great to us but it’s not like playing in the Coliseum is going to do Hardy any favors.
Maybe Hardy works as a one-season guy, giving him a chance to impress, but he’d probably go through the same stuff Holliday did in changing leagues and I really don’t think the A’s should give up much to get him with the year he’s had.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I think your first sentence is the draw: a couple 20+ homer seasons.
That at least shows he can do it, whether or not he returns to form is another question.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Aug 12, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
He's a solid, RH hitting SS with some pop who plays good defense
Talk about a huge upgrade from anything the A’s have now or all that soon. I’d take him for 2010-11 for sure, even if he just signed a one-year “accept arbitration” extension. I hope the A’s will jump at the chance to buy way low, ideally on more than just a one-year deal.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I do see Miller Park is considered more of a pitcher's park than Oakland
That would at least help a few of my concerns about him coming here. It’s not like his numbers are inflated by playing in a hitter’s haven.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
THIS
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
If they keep him in the minors long enough an extension won't be a problem
He won’t have enough service time to qualify for FA until after 2011
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I noticed that..
he won’t have enough service time to be a FA after 2010…
maybe this demotion will actually have an inherent increase in his value, eh?
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Aug 12, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Well if they don't pull an Eveland with him
If he stays down for less than 20 days he is give credit for the full year.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm just not sold on him overall
My gut is telling me he’s like a better version of Crosby with a similar fall coming. Still, it’d probably be better than what we’ve had. I mainly don’t want the A’s to overspend for him.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
My gut is that he may not be as good as his best seasons,
but he’s a lot better than his 2009 output. He’d be a perfect fit for Oakland’s biggest needs, too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
To be honest
A Duke for J.J. Hardy deal seems to be a reasonable (contract time could be sticking point but since the difference is only a year, you could probably finagle it a bit by shipping some cash one way or the other)
The way that’s i’d look at it…Duke is a cheap piece with a little bit of short term upside (not in performance but in length of performance) that has no place on a team aiming for the playofs in 2 or 3 seasons. Hardy is a cheap, possibly underperforming piece that could be part of a team aiming for the playoffs in 2-3 seasons.
The chances that they’ll outperform expectations are low, but the relative risks are low as well. It’s a low quality asset swap.
The puzzling thing is that this sort of deal is almost certainly the type to go through beforethe deadline, not after. So I’m a bit confused about the actions of the various front offices here.
Again -- there's very little chance Duke would clear waivers.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Right
I was commenting more on the hypotheticals of trade value rather than the mechanics of this actually happening.
Definitely agreeing with your point and the one above.
by eastbayexpat on Aug 12, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Disagree
I think it’s about a 40-60 chance he’d clear.
As i posted above the Yankees, Rangers and Angels would be the only three teams to possibly claim Duke in the AL. Boston won’t. As with other AL contenders. Well the Whitesox acquired Peavy, the Twins got Pavano, Tigers acquired Washburn and the Rays cannot add ANY payroll at this point. And the only contending national league team with a worse record then Milwaukee is Houston. Unless you count the Mets LOL
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 12, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think my hypothetical idea is a couple weeks too late,
but I was also posting to gauge interest in Hardy around here, as well as perception of Duchscherer’s value.
Thanks for the feedback.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Aug 12, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
All hypothetical, but if Hardy were on waivers and the A's claimed him
and tried to work a deal with Melvin that included Duke, would Duke need to clear waivers to make the deal work?
witty remark
nope
But Hardy would have to clear the entire NL first before AL teams would get a crack. That might be problematic.
What contending National League team is in the market for a SS? Only one team pops out at me and that is the Cubs.
Phillies- Rollins
Marlins- Ramirez
Braves- Escobar
Cardinals- Lugo
Dodgers- Furcal
Giants- Renteria
Rockies- Tulowitski
So this isn’t as far fetched as many would like to think. But the question remains. Do we really want Hardy? I would say go for it!!!
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 12, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Um, the Cards would absolutely take Hardy over Lugo.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
The other thing is plenty of teams would claim him for next year regardless of whether they are contending now.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt non contending team would claim either Duke or Hardy. Duke because he is a free agent after this season and Hardy because many teams are set at the SS position and non contending teams will be reluctant to take on a player like Hardy. Especially considering his recent drop off in terms of numbers.
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 12, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Why would a non-contending team be reluctant?
He isn’t making that much next year and is a huge trade asset if he rebounds, if he doesn’t you still get a 2 WAR SS. Really there isn’t a team that Hardy couldn’t benefit.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe the Yankees.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They had Cody Ransom backing up Jeter Cano and Arod
JJ Hardy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cody Ransom
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Ransom was designated for assignment.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 12, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Then who's me?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I know but still
Hes better than Ramon Pena
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not that he isn't better,
but I don’t see teams acquiring Hardy as a utility player.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why not?
$2m for a starting quality SS that you can trade in the offseason for a boatload of talent. If Im the Yankees thats one of the many ways I would use my financial largess.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I meant they wouldn't trade for him,
and give up “major league SS” talent in return for a backup SS.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They don't have to acquire him
all they have to do is submit a waiver claim. The Yankees are behind us in priority, but especially if I was an NL contender block another NL contender from getting a good SS.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, I was thinking in terms of trading for him,
not just submitting a claim for him. My bad.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No worries
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, he would.
Both players are on the 40 man roster, thus they would need to clear waivers in order to be traded
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
The Brewers and Rays are pretty shady with jerking around service-time
This is all about service time, just like it was with keeping Ryan Braun down two seasons ago.
Nashville’s AAA season ends September 7th. You can bet that Hardy will be down in the minors for three weeks, preserving that extra year of team control (2011).
Escobar will play shortstop these last six weeks, Hardy will come up in September and play third, a little short, and perhaps even second, and Hardy will be dealt in the offseason with TWO years of team control remaining instead of one. It literally doubles his trade value to interested teams. Hardy will be absolutely furious, but it won’t really matter to the team, because they only have to worry about him being in the org for another month and a half.
I’m not saying it’s not the smart move from the team’s perspective; certainly it is, financially. But it is a little shady. Kind of like sending down Anibal Sanchez when he’s dropped 10 mph in velocity and you know he’s probably due for a major surgery (Marlins).
I realize that Escobar is ready to play, and Hardy has been struggling mightily, and that gives the team the opportunity to this, because there’s a public explanation other than money. But certainly that above scenario is at the forefront of their minds.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 12, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions
idk
It’s a guaranteed grievance if Hardy stays down long enough to delay free agency. The Brewers might well defeat a grievance claim, but it’s a giant headache that I don’t think any team would look forward to, and it would also hurt his trade value tremendously until resolved. Plus, Melvin is already on the defensive claiming that they didn’t send Hardy down for service time reasons, and implying in his comments that Hardy will be back up before impending FA is an issue. Do he and Attanasio really want to be answering media questions about it until there is resolution? I’m not going to believe this one until I see it.
Melvin said it wasn’t to cut off free agency after the 2010 season, either. He said a player has to be down “18 to 20 days” for the service time to be deleted from his record.
“I talked to J.J.,” said Melvin. “I told him he needs to go to Triple-A, relax and have some fun. Mentally, take a breather. That’s what Triple-A is for. Maybe he can find something mechanical with his swing.”
by AgitationStation on Aug 12, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I smell somethin horsey...
"I told him he needs to go to Triple-A, relax and have some fun. Mentally, take a breather. That’s what Triple-A is for.
Funny. And all this time I thought that AAA was for player development and injury rehabs. What a dummy I am!
I said "Why not baseball?" He said he hated baseball and demanded we NEVER speak of it again. He then, oddly enough, walked repeatedly into my fists and feet. So weird that he would do that! - TwistNHook, CGB
and furthermore
if you demote one of your players and hope that he figures out his mechanics on his own, then what the hell does it say about your hitting coaches? Is the AAA hitting coach more astute than the MLB hitting coach? Sounds like an organizational problem to me.
I said "Why not baseball?" He said he hated baseball and demanded we NEVER speak of it again. He then, oddly enough, walked repeatedly into my fists and feet. So weird that he would do that! - TwistNHook, CGB
other than Hardy
almost the entire team has improved their hitting. Guess where the old hitting coach is working now?
Brewers, Rays
and every other team in MLB keep players in the minors to avoid starting their arby clocks. I’m sure Hardy will be unhappy if he is down in the minors for 20 days, but I’m not so sure he’ll be “absolutely furious.” I don’t think that it is a “certainty” that getting another year was the primary reason either.
i think stashing him in the minors helps out his value a ton if it gets us the 2011 year
If the A’s were willing to keep him in the minor’s also the rest of the year after a trade he would be a great buy low guy and worth way more than Duke. Then he has not one but two possible turn around seasons and still has a lot of re-trade value.
I’m sure the Brewers are looking for a lot more than Duke for him and would just hang onto him if that’s the best they could do. It’s not like they have a great chance to make the playoffs by just adding one good starter or even more pieces, so they are not going to be desperate. Hardys salary is not any real burden and adds to his value.
I would think a three for 1(if the waiver stuff does not work, it happens in the off season) with the Brew getting something like a 4-5 starter, a middle reliever, and a B/B- prospect would be the most likely return from the A’s or anyone else for Hardy with what he has done in the recent past (all-star) and if Hardy is under control for two more years.
"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"
he's very, very unlikely to get traded in August
he has an attractive contract (factoring in his terrific defense) and he’s a good player. Those guys don’t move in August.
If the A’s were willing to keep him in the minor’s also the rest of the year after a trade he would be a great buy low guy and worth way more than Duke. Then he has not one but two possible turn around seasons and still has a lot of re-trade value.
What the Brewers are doing is going to soil their relationship with Hardy. It’s a sacrifice they’re willing to make because they know they’ll be trading him in a few months. But for the acquiring team to employ the same strategy would be pretty wild. Hardy would instantly have animosity for the A’s.
That’s why I think the most likely course of action is Hardy toiling for a few weeks, being pissed at the Brewers, and then being traded somewhere else in the offseason with two years left on his deal.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 12, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree
I think he’ll just be traded in the offseason. No reason to toil (good word) away over all this waiver trade rules discussion.
With that being said, I think Hardy would be a nice addition for the A’s to take a flyer on for next year.
"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane
by pickinmachine on Aug 12, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's a heck of a lot more than a flyer
Hardy has been a solid SS, offensively and defensively, for a lot longer than this funk. Even if he disappoints, he’s a good defensive SS with a RH bat that produces good power/slugging.
If he’s not a FA until after 2011, he’s almost the ideal A’s pickup. The question is what it would take to get him in the off-season, with his value low but the extra year of contract control on his ledger.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Finally, we are talking about a possible JJ Hardy trade!
If this were to happen, more likely in the off season, I would be a happy camper. I could see him doing very well with the A’s, especially with the young crew coming up together.
Trade for him Billy and keep him in Oakland! Grant Green still hasn’t signed with the A’s so I would feel a lot better if we had a backup plan. And having Hardy as plan B would not be the worst thing imaginable. Go A’s!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Even if Green signs, having a good SS for the next two years
times perfectly. Green would figure to be a late 2011 callup or “take over in April, 2012” candidate.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
yea it is probably a lot higher likelihood of an offseason pickup, with Duke not in the picture
I wonder what it would take to get him then…
witty remark
He could be a PTBNL because he isn't on the active roster right?
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
he'd still have to clear waivers though, because he's on the 40-man roster
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 12, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
No he wouldn't because he could be traded after the season
because he would be within the 60 day limit for PTBNL.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 12, 2009 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
maybe
do you know that for sure?
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 12, 2009 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
from Cots
Player To Be Named Later
A transaction including a player to be named later must be completed within six months. The player may not be an active Major League player during the interval between the trade and the date the player is named. As a result, most players to be named later are minor leaguers.
At the time of a trade, clubs sometimes agree on a list of players from which the player to be named will be selected. They also may agree on an amount of money to be exchanged in lieu of a player.
Clubs may include a player to be named later in a trade if a player is not eligible to be traded. For example, once a draft pick signs a professional contract, he may not be traded until an entire year has elapsed (the Pete Incaviglia Rule). Additionally, a player on a minor-league reserve list may not be traded between November 20 and the Rule 5 draft in December, so trades during that window may include a PTBNL.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 13, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
So basically if they didn't bring him back up they could avoid waivers
which would also keep him off the active roster to earn 2011 team control. I think it would be hard for them to justify keeping Hardy in the minors that way without a union grievance but I think you could legally do it.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 13, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
interesting, good info DFA, thank you
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Aug 14, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
More than Hardy
I’d be more impressed if Beane waited the prescribed time and then pursued Bill Hall — having the brewers eat nearly [H]all of the contract. Hall is versatile — can even play SS — and, in my opinion, would make an interesting reclamation project; like the ones that Beane spent the late 90s and early oughts catching lightening in the bottles with.
I 100 percent agree with you on Bill Hall. That would be a real low risk, high reward pickup!
by nocal81(Vincent) on Aug 12, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
wait til season's end
Pennington is playing great and deserves an extended trial so everyone can see if this is just SSS. Duke’s value goes way up if he has even a few good starts.
As for Crawford. Sure he is having a good season but if he regresses to his career norms of 295/334/437 he is slightly worse than Rajai’s 294/367/422 for this season.
Oakland is playing well at the moment and the current options are cheaper and under team control for longer. Given the A’s revenue, it only makes sense trading for more expensive players if they fill a hole. Trading for flipping assumes the new player stays healthy long enough for him to be flipped. With the problems the A’s have had with injuries, who wants to make that assumption?

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