Athletics Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Sounder At Heart for Seattle Sounders Fans!

NOW I Know What We Should Have Done!

This post is not in any a referendum on the choices the A's made this past off-season. It is the strictest exercise in 20/20 hindsight, to see just how competitive the A's could have become in 2009 had they enjoyed the benefit of a 3-month preview. Could the A's, if they had guessed, gambled, and strategized perfectly, have put together a team that could have competed with the 43-35 standard currently being set by the Rangers and Angels?

Star-divide

The FA signing coup would have been Russel Branyan, instead of Jason Giambi, to play 1B. Cheaper and younger, Branyan is sporting a rather stunning line of .294/.390/.592 (.982 OPS), with 20 HRs. Perhaps just as remarkably or more remarkably, Branyan has a .272 average and .931 OPS against LHP, against whom he is just a .219 career hitter (.775 OPS) in 10 seasons.

In trying to solve SS for 2009, the A's could have traded for Tejada instead of signing Cabrera, using the millions they saved by signing Branyan and not Giambi, Cabrera, or Garciaparra to pay for Tejada. This past off-season the Astros were trying to dump Tejada and his salary -- what they would have demanded in return is unclear, but chances are that a team willing to take on the salary would not have had to give up too much more to get a deal done.

The A's reluctance to consider Tejada might have stemmed in part from the fear that Tejada would have legal problems during the 2009 season, but this has not materialized. What has materialized is that Tejada is batting .329/.359/.470, including a nifty .333/.368/.508 line against LHP. Adjust that for the move from Minute Maid Park to Routine Fly Out Made Park and Tejada's hitting is not nearly as good (Tejada's road OPS is just .738) -- but still a whole heck of a lot better than any of the stati that the A's are currently quoing. As for Miggy's defense? Projected to be worse than Orlando Cabrera, but...In fact? Ah, hindsight.

So here's the lineup the A's could have tried, for the price of the prospect(s) it would have cost to take on $9-10million of Tejada's salary instead of signing Giambreriaparra:

Sweeney - CF
Cust - DH
Tejada - SS
Holliday - LF
Branyan - 1B
Suzuki - C
Buck - RF
Ellis/Kennedy - 2B
Hannahan - 3B

Your thoughts? Could this team play better than .500 ball behind the A's current rotation and bullpen? Or could the A's have done better than this with the same money? The A's are 33-45, but hindsight is 20-20...putting it 6 games up in the standings.

0 recs  |  Comment 112 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Athletics Nation

Final tally for the ex-A's

Nov 2009 by Flashfire - 17 comments

A's Post-Holliday

Sep 2009 by baseballgirl - 173 comments

Comments

Display:

Need as new manager first

  I don’t think Geren could guide a team to a good record even if he had the redsox or yanks. He burns out players and can’t manage. Second Chavez health hurt the A’s the most. If Chavez could have been healthy and just put up good D and bat .250 it would have greatly improved the A’s instead we get .190 hitting Crosby throwing away games.

by Arcman on Jul 4, 2009 8:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Since we're on hindsight patrol,

how about Jim Tracy!

You know who I’d like now, with only the benefit of foresight? Tim Flannery. There’s something about his energy and style that I really like, and I believe he’s generally respected for his knowledge and leadership. Seems like he’d do well with a young team and might be the kind of personality the team needs right now.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Call on Tim Flannery

I heard him on with Radnich and really enjoyed him. All coaches and managers are good baseball men, but its the personality that separates them.

by Jessse on Jul 5, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're overestimating Chavez' impact.

He’s a perfect compliment to an already good team, but he’s not a leader. The aberration of that single plane trip to Atlanta a few years ago notwithstanding.

Back then, my idol was Bugs Bunny, because I saw a cartoon of him playing ball - you know, the one where he plays every position himself with nobody else on the field but him? Now that I think of it, Bugs is still my idol. You have to love a ballplayer like that.
~Nomar Garciaparra

by UncleLeo on Jul 4, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he just means the impact

of Chavez playing a solid defensive 3B and hitting, say, .250/.350 with 20+ HRs, which is about what the A’s seemed to be hoping for in 2009.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, probably, though I initially interpreted it the other way.

Back then, my idol was Bugs Bunny, because I saw a cartoon of him playing ball - you know, the one where he plays every position himself with nobody else on the field but him? Now that I think of it, Bugs is still my idol. You have to love a ballplayer like that.
~Nomar Garciaparra

by UncleLeo on Jul 4, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chavez

  He wouldn’t make the A’s a winning team but would have stabalized 3b and given the pitchers more confidence in throwing ground balls. Look at what Crosby did to Cahill yesterday added many extra pitches and he lost confidnece in throwing ground balls. A new manger would be the first step in making the team good.

by Arcman on Jul 4, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With lots of hay?

Ooh, and a baby Jesus. How about Guzman?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the fact that he can't crack the Giants lineup,

a lineup that is DESPARATE for any sort of corner infield help, speaks volumes for Guzman’s value

by bobnothing on Jul 4, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

another SS

Everett, no bat but excellent defense, he’s been better with the bat this year tho.

by jahs34 on Jul 4, 2009 8:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Everett

  Tigers love him so he will resign with them.

by Arcman on Jul 4, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

we are talking about this year not next year

we could have signed him instead of Cabrera.

by jahs34 on Jul 5, 2009 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With you part of the way.

I really wasn’t a fan of the Giambi signing or the Cabrera signing (especially losing a draft pick). PT called Branyan 100% of the way and to think he also plays third base(badly IIRC)! When it comes to acquiring Tejada I really don’t think he was available since he was a favorite of owner Drayton McLane even with the financial climate and his legal troubles. A couple questions therefore, Do you have any firm rumors that suggest that a insignificant prospect package coupled with salary relief would do the trick? I don’t think it would have, which is why Im only there part of the way. If it wouldn’t how much in terms of prospect would you have been willing to give up for Tejada? The answer to that may be my jumping off point for my agreement. Personally I was in favor of a Petit/Moneypenny battle for starting shortstop, but then again I also wanted the A’s to not acquire Holliday, Giambi, Cabrera, and Nomar and let the kiddies play figure out who is worth while moving forward, collect our high draft pick, and be ready for contention in 2010.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 9:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I did find a couple links referring to the Astros' willingness to trade Tejada

This has links to Rosenthal and to another source — the consensus seems to be that the Astros were open to moving Tejada, if not actively looking to move him, if a team was willing to pay most of his salary.

Now as for what the A’s would have had to give up, along with assuming salary, is another question. I don’t know what the market for Miggy was, especially in light of the legal questions that surrounded him at the time.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't think McLane would have let it happen

just like he won’t let them move Tejada to third this year.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm in agreement on that last part

During the offseason I fully expected the 2009 A’s to be bad because they were chalking it up as a year of youth, letting their young pitchers and hitters get time up here to see who had what it took to stick around and who didn’t.

Instead, the 2009 A’s are bad and we’ve got people like Holliday, Giambi, Cabrera and Garciaparra brought in under the assumption they were going to help the A’s contend for the division.

I don’t think a bunch of people would’ve been that upset if the A’s lost because of youth and inexperience. Enough people would have understood that this really was a rebuilding year, something geared to improve the team in the near future. What we got was a mediocre team not really helped all that much by a rent-a-player and aging vets past their prime, false expectations built up that have failed, and more injuries.

Not so easy to accept, that.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 4, 2009 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1000

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 4, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm most upset that the A's let C. Gonzalez go

I may turn out to look dumb on this, but I still think Gonzalez has a chance to end up being an impact player, quite possibly in CF, and I still think Sweeney will wind up being a 4th OFer — basically a guy that if he’s an every day starter for you, that’s one way you know your team isn’t very good.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you on Gonzalez

I’d much rather have him out there than Sweeney, or at least I’d have rather had Sweeney in a corner OF spot next to Gonzalez and Buck this year.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 4, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was a bad trade

we rushed gonzalez last year, hence his numbers weren’t great. had we done the smart thing and let him stay in AAA until september, probably a different story. also, people didn’t value smith or street much here because they were “replaceable”. that shouldn’t matter in terms of their value, because both did have value. smith was a good #4 starter and street was a damn good closer when healthy (which he was enough of the time). because they were replaceable and we rushed carlos, hurting his numbers, i think we made a huge mistake on the trade. unless we get a nice haul for holliday, i think this one will haunt us. it was a bad trade then, and a worse one now.

by guy incognito on Jul 4, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we only get 1-2 draft picks, then it's a step backward... time-wise.

If we either re-sign Holliday (which I doubt), or get some MLB-ready talent via trade, then it’ll be ok.

Back then, my idol was Bugs Bunny, because I saw a cartoon of him playing ball - you know, the one where he plays every position himself with nobody else on the field but him? Now that I think of it, Bugs is still my idol. You have to love a ballplayer like that.
~Nomar Garciaparra

by UncleLeo on Jul 4, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

to make the trade sort of okay, we need to get a nice package for holliday (which i think we might, because we’d be trading holliday + 2 picks, essentially, as he’s a boras guy and will almost certainly not accept arbitration). if we don’t get something like 2 really good prospects, we should just suck it up and take the picks when he walks. if that happens, we basically trade a closer, a back-of-the-rotation starter, and a promising CF prospect for 2 picks who, at best, will take a few years to make it up to the bigs.

by guy incognito on Jul 4, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smith was bad and got very lucky as an A

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fans and rebuilding
I don’t think a bunch of people would’ve been that upset if the A’s lost because of youth and inexperience. Enough people would have understood that this really was a rebuilding year, something geared to improve the team in the near future. What we got was a mediocre team not really helped all that much by a rent-a-player and aging vets past their prime, false expectations built up that have failed, and more injuries.

I think the best scenarios from ownership’s perspective, in order of preference, would be…

1) Win with rent-a-year veterans
2) Win with young players out of the A’s’ system
3) Play badly with young players out of the A’s’ system
4) Play badly with rent-a-year veterans

I know people on AN would have been okay with outcome 3, although given the Angels’ injuries and struggles I’m sure a bunch of people here would have said, “We should have gone for it! Why didn’t we sign Branyan!” But on balance folks here would be happier watching Buck, Cunningham, Barton, and Moneypetit than the current crew. Still, it’s possible that losing just looks like losing to the average fan — they’ll show up when the young guys are developed, not when they’re developing.

Now, here’s are those scenarios in order of likelihood once you pick your approach:

1) Play badly with young players from the A’s’ system
2) Play badly with rent-a-year veterans
3) Play well with rent-a-year veterans
4) Play well with young players from the A’s’ system

I think ownership really wanted to win, in order to make money, and in order to build up support for whatever stadium deal they thought they were likely to get. And I think they saw an opportunity in the AL West, and wanted to go for it. So they figured that the most likely way to get, say, 88 wins would be to sign a bunch of veterans, even if it was also a likely way to get 70 wins, and to retard the development of the young players.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 4, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently everyone got a bit confused about the plan

and are developing retarded young players.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Players?

  How about managers.

by Arcman on Jul 4, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This
I think ownership really wanted to win, in order to make money, and in order to build up support for whatever stadium deal they thought they were likely to get.

This season wreaks of bad decisions based on politics.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any decision by any team based on a new stadium is necessarily a decision based on politics

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 4, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry I was trying to agree with you. :-P

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just meant that this kind of thing is really common in the majors

Every time a team wants to build a new stadium they have to make a case to the fans and the local political structure — they want to claim that the new stadium will let them afford a better team, but it’s dangerous to field a complete suckfest because folks get grumpy and uninclined to float bonds for a new stadium.

Then, once the stadium is built, they need to fill it, and if the team isn’t doing that well, it’s hard to sustain ticket sales. The Mets are dealing with that problem right now, and I think it’s one of the reasons they might want to trade for help this year. It would be bad for them if their first season at Citi Field were a non-playoff, sub-.500 year.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 4, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ownership really wanted to win ?

They want to move so badly. You can’t get them on the radio (you barely can), still havn’t resolved the directv blackout ( only games i’ve seen were during the giants series), BB chose Geren over Washington?, relying on Chavez on being healthy without a decent backup, Giambi is still in the lineup? Boston sat Ortiz for awhile, why not Giambi?, Nomar is an injury prone player, playing on fumes. Holliday is non-existent in the lineup with no one backing him up. Only good move is Kennedy and calling up Mazzaro.

by joecooley on Jul 4, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

WaddelCanseco was totally right suggesting that we would be far worse than anyone thought

I didn’t think that we would be good but not bad. We are a terrible baseball team, and we aren’t learning anything from being terrible like we should. But YAY high draft pick woot!

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

totally agree

i was prepared to watch CarGo all year plus young pitching. Those moves just raised expectations.

by Jessse on Jul 5, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and so much of this goes back to Giambi in particular
  • Giambi blocks Barton (or someone else) playing 1B.
  • Giambi blocks Cust from DHing.
  • Cust blocks Buck from playing RF.
  • Holliday maybe blocks Buck from playing LF.
  • Garciaparra probably would have blocked Barton from playing 1B if Giambi wasn’t here, but chances are Barton’s there instead when Garciaparra goes on the DL.
  • Cabrera blocks Crosby from playing SS, though at this point it’s pretty much a wash between them.

For all the talk about the “band” being back together at the Giambi press conference, the “band” was really just Giambi and Chavez at this point and Chavez is pretty much done. The band didn’t get back together. The teams of the early 2000s are long gone. This band never even got to the recording studio.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 4, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Giambi is a "one hit wonder" if he bats five times.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somehow I expect my cleanup hitters

to bat well in various weather conditions, but maybe I’m just fussy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

Dude, you’re a pro… at the top level… quit with the excuses already. Or, are you admitting that you should no longer be at the top level?

Back then, my idol was Bugs Bunny, because I saw a cartoon of him playing ball - you know, the one where he plays every position himself with nobody else on the field but him? Now that I think of it, Bugs is still my idol. You have to love a ballplayer like that.
~Nomar Garciaparra

by UncleLeo on Jul 4, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my problem was that Giambi wasn't a real upgrade in anything but marketability

Barton would have played better than him or told us that we need to look to Dolittle and Carter for our 1bman of the future. These are important things to know.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Signing Giambi was wrong for so many reasons

Even if he were hitting moderately well now, which he’s not, it was still a bad move.

I thought acquiring Holliday was a reasonable gamble, and I still do. But now that it didn’t pan out so well, I’m ready to cash him in for as much as we can get for him.

Getting Cabrera was pointless. Nobody expected him to actually be good, just better than Crosby, which is a low standard. I’d love to see him traded, too, even though I don’t expect him to net more than a low-grade prospect or two.

I was OK with Nomar as a bench player. I don’t think his presence on the roster this year has been too much of an impediment. Any Nomar-related complaints I have are against Geren’s lineup decisions, not against signing him in the first place.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Jul 4, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, PT definitely wanted Branyan

I don’t think even he would say that Branyan would have done this well (and he wouldn’t in the Coliseum, but nowhere near as bad as Giambi, with, I’m assuming, better D).

I did try to argue for a Tejada trade in my first ever post, although I thought BoCro would have been enough. He wouldn’t have, but maybe a BoCro/relief prospect/salry relief would have done it. Hard to say, though, I agree.

Like the reminder about Petit/Pennington. They actually would have done better than Cabrera this year, and we could have gotten a nice pick in the draft at #61.

by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

He had the option to ask to come back after 30 days, so at this point, it’s a matter of not wanting to come back.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 4, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I bet if we had signed Branyan

he would have put up Giambi numbers and vice versa for Giambi…

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 4, 2009 9:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You don't wish the A's had him under contract right now

for 4 years and $44-48million?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

  with the economy in free agents next year his contract will be considered untradeable.

by Arcman on Jul 4, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought grover was at 4/60?

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't think Furcal would be better than O-Cab this year,

and that it would also be nice to have a solid solution to the shortstop quandary for the next couple years after this (as opposed to having no current solution for that position next year and possibly beyond?)

As for this year in and of itself, Furcal is still outperforming O-Cab (not that this is saying a tremendous amount, naturally) and is likely to only do better as the season progresses- remember he missed much of last year due to injury, and he has probably needed some time to get back into the swing of things (while also being a bit cautious to be sure he stays fully healthy.)

Furcal: http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=279577

O-Cab: http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111851

Add to this that Cabrera is a one year stopgap measure for a team that has no clear solution (heck, Green hasn’t even signed yet and even if he does he’s a couple years away most likely) at the shortstop position, and yes I would say I’m still disappointed that the A’s didn’t sign Furcal, even at $11MM per- I’m sick of the front office being penny-wise and pound foolish, or just plain cheap in other words.

by still bills kingdom on Jul 4, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only good thing about the 1yr deal from O-Cab

is that all the pressure is on the player…

What do you think Cabrera will get this offseason? I bet it will be less than what he got this season from Oakland, which was less than the 9 to 10 mil per year range he initially wanted before the financial collapse.

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 4, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, first off- to be fair to O-Cab, I think he might be doing a little better if

he got any rest- but so far he’s started and played through most every game this season, I think, and that probably isn’t helping him.

As for pressure, there’s also plenty of pressure on the A’s organization to come up with a decent solution at shortstop for the near-term future (assuming they sign Green and he pans out and is ready to start by 2012- because to pencil him in even as early as 2011 might be too optimistic; and the other options in the low minors probably won’t be ready any sooner.)

I can’t reasonably predict what sort of contract value Cabrera will be in a position to obtain based upon the marketplace this coming offseason- it’s a bit too soon for that, and his value will be partially determined by both how he does the rest of this year and what the supply/demand situation is with regard to his position by the time winter rolls around. You could be right in thinking he’ll only be able to command what he got this year, or even less- or, there may be more positional scarcity and more need to fill the position around the league, which could lead to a better contract in terms of money/years. If the A’s really have an agreement with him to not offer him arbitration, then that would also seemingly increase his chances of landing a better deal.

by still bills kingdom on Jul 4, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is older, but Cabrera is accustomed to playing 160 games/year

and has done so in seasons where he didn’t suffer for it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's totally true, and I know that he's done so before without much

issue- but I still don’t think an extra day off here and there would hurt him, and he is definitely reaching the point in his career where a little extra rest might go a long ways towards keeping him fresh.

by still bills kingdom on Jul 4, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The agreement not to offer arbitration to O-Cab

is actually written into the contract. However, the restriction only applies if Cabrera ranks as a type A free agent.

I’m not very familiar with how the rankings work, but I’ve read that it now looks likely he could end up being a type B after this year.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Jul 4, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's send down Cahill and bring up Dana "Cy Young" Eveland!!!!

Giambi is going to belt 22HR’s and 80 RBI’s with a .190 batting average…

Nomar could be a short term solution until Cardenas is ready!!

Why isn’t Mulder pitching for the A’s?

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 4, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would support sending down both Brett Anderson and Cahill

Im worried about Anderson’s arm soreness and both of their service time.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Jul 4, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess we could let Gio, Eveland, and Gallagher finish out the season?

I want to hear what Lew has to say about Billy Beane and if he stands behind Geren as the 2010 manager or not?

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 4, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

gallagher is still hurt

he was supposed to be out 4-6 weeks due to knee issues. i think he’s still got a few weeks ‘til he’s back. but yeah, i think we need to let the others start some games to rest anderson and cahill some.

by guy incognito on Jul 4, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

gallagher still hurt

Not due back anytime soon and possibly out the season. Just had procedure last week with 4/6 weeks rehab and then start a throwing program.

by granja on Jul 4, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its amazing how stupid A's fans are

You were all excited when they brought up Cahill and Anderson. Did you really think they were going to be able to pitch the whole year. Neither of these kids has pitched over 120+ innings in a season. Now that there arms are starting to fall of your suddenly saying “oh shit what are we to do”!! As they say the best is yet to come when the scrubs are pitching.

by granja on Jul 4, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not everyone was excited/wanted them to be up at the beginning of the season...

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 4, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree some A's fans are amazingly stupid

For example, the fact that “you are suddenly saying” contracts to “you’re suddenly saying” is what, 6th grade grammar?

Take home message: If you’re going to insult A’s fans, don’t commit the blogfather’s pet peeve.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also the failure to distinguish there/their

I believe that was 3rd grade stuff.

They say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing all the time!

by muffinpryde on Jul 4, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

add to that...

I’ve heard of arms falling “off”. But I’ve never heard of an arm falling “of”.

I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.

by Kallus on Jul 4, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting hypothesis

It’s commonly assumed that bad grammar positively correlates with ignorance. I think it probably does, though with plenty of exceptions. I wonder if it correlates even more strongly with rudeness.

Most people who make a mistake like your/you’re or there/their aren’t so ignorant that they don’t actually know the difference. More likely it’s due to carelessness, and the sort of people who are rude and insulting are perhaps the same ones who don’t give a damn enough to write properly.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Jul 4, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Eveland should never see a ML uni with green and gold

Cahill will not be sent down.

At least not for a total gascan who is still allowing a zillion baserunners in AAA

by Trainman on Jul 4, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

grammmer

I figure folks that like to correct grammer on a baseball blog probably are either frustrated english teachers or have an anal tendency to want to put someone down. Get with the program folks. Be polite! It really doesn’t hurt!

Yep, one of my peeves is folks that play grammer games!

Try baseball, it is a baseball blog isn’t it?

RAC

by rcodd on Jul 4, 2009 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes it is a baseball blog. And, more specifically, an A's blog

which is why saying:

Its amazing how stupid A’s fans are

can cause a reaction that might be less than favorable. So I’ll assume that:

Be polite! It really doesn’t hurt!

was aimed at granja, and not the “frustrated english teachers”, as you so politely pointed out.

I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.

by Kallus on Jul 5, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

I don’t see the problem with expecting people to use proper grammar and be able to show they’ve mastered basic rules of the language most people learn early in school.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 5, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you're going to call a group of people idiots, (granja)

then at least don’t make juvenile grammatical errors. That’s all were asking.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Jul 5, 2009 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1,000,000

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 5, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would have been nice to not see Branyan kill the A's this year, too.

I really didn’t like the Cabrera signing, and the idea of the Giambi signing (although the price tag was hard to argue with). I loved the Holliday trade, though—I still can’t believe he’s shown Mark Ellis-level home run power in an A’s uniform. Oh well.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 4, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Notwithstanding any brilliant trades,

my hope is that the A’s will aggressively pursue a couple of Tejada/Beltre/Branyan for next year. All are likely to be premier FAs at their positions, but that doesn’t mean the A’s can’t afford them. More than the dollars per year, the greater risk is likely to be the number of years they can command. At the same time all of them have mitigating circumstances that could make them more amenable to an A’s-like contract: they’re all over 30, Beltre is having a lousy year with the bat, Miggy has legal issues and has been caught in a number of lies recently.

I also wouldn’t mind looking into Winn, Nady or Abreu (assuming his 2008 performance with the glove was an abberation, and he is merely a catastrophic defender, not an apocalyptic one) to replace Holliday. There are enough big name FA outfielders on the market next year that the A’s should be able to get someone good on a cheap, 1-2 year deal.

My thinking is that all the names I’ve mentioned are 2.5 WAR players in a bad year, and 4.5 WAR players in a good year. Any way you look at it that is significantly better than what the A’s are getting from Holliday+Giambi+Crosby+Garciaparra.

I also think Marlon Byrd could be a steal as a fourth outfielder.

Your 2009 Oakland A's: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.

by Rock Music of the 1970s on Jul 4, 2009 10:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I've had a man-crush for Beltre for a while

but now I’d be pretty wary of getting him. He’s not hitting that well this year, though still enough to be a sizeable upgrade over Hannahan. But with turning 30 and the shoulder surgery, he may be on the downward trajectory of production. I doubt he’ll get another big contract like Seattle gave him, but given how few quality 3Bman are on the FA market, I think he’ll still be very expensive.

I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.

by Kallus on Jul 4, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly my feelings - I have wanted Beltre for a while,

but now think the A’s should stay clear. They need to stay away from known injury risks until the current pattern changes within the organization.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beltre Sucks,

We should have signed Casey Blake.

by dolemite on Jul 4, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I nearly gave myself an anuersym screaming for the A’s to sign Adam Dunn. Dunn at 1B instead of Giambi, NO O-Cab and his utterly terrible OBP, and just roll with Crosby/Petit/Pennington and thats already a better team. Dunn is YET AGAIN headed for 40 HR and a 950+ OPS….why is he so undervalued????

We need to be kind of realistic though, yet AGAIN we get owned by the DL. Our ace, closer, and 2B were all pretty much done by opening day. We got Elli back but thats a REALLY unrealistic obstacle to overcome, Bailey’s kind of a fluke but Duke’s numbers from last year needed to be replicated by him and wed be a better team. Duke-Braden-Outman-Cahill-Mazzaro for a full year would have been infinitely better than having to watch Gio and a clearly unready Anderson (should have had 3 months at AAA).

by PL78 on Jul 4, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He isn't undervalued... his defense is just that bad.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i hope we rest anderson and cahill some

they are clearly tiring and need some skipped starts in the rotation. anderson clearly did better with some extra rest. cahill seems like he could use it, too – his velocity and location are down.

by guy incognito on Jul 4, 2009 11:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

explain this post

Just what are they to do carry 15 pitchers on the roster so the choosen ones can get an extra day off. There’s a reason why none of them have gone over 6 innings and it will continue for the rest of the year. By doing this the bullpen is going to have no arms left either. Its going to be shuttle between Sacto and Oakland for pitching the last two months.

by granja on Jul 4, 2009 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

6-man rotation would have been my preference

Let Braden, Cahill, Anderson, Mazzaro, Outman (now someone else), and Gio make about 25 starts each, keeping their total innings down without having to keep their IP/start down too much (which would help the bullpen).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buuuaaaaahaha!!!!!

Could be, could be, know what I mean, eh?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its "funy" you moran.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our game is not blacked out today, right? it is on late enough

want to be sure I get my frustration time in later today.

alaska A residing in northern Idaho.

by ak_A on Jul 4, 2009 11:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The team just has so many question marks at this point in time...

I don’t even have an opinion on Barton, Buck, Cust, Sweeney, Duke, Gio, Eveland, and Gallagher or what to reasonably expect from any of these guys!!!

The pressure seems to be squarely on Holliday, if he wants that big pay raise Boras has him pegged for, so Billy can hold a slight edge right now.

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 4, 2009 11:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m surprised Nico has Ryan Sweeney hitting atop the lineup there.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Against RHP, he's a decent singles hitter with a decent OBP

Against LHP I’d start Rajai Davis.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 4, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had hoped Cust would make the team this year

just to see what Spartacust could do in a home run derby. Man, that could be fun to watch.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 4, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1,000,000

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 4, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

a more systemic problem

I think that there is something in the Athletics system that causes players to underachieve. At the major league level, clearly a lot of the blame has to be placed on Geren who can’t seem to bring the best out of his players. Giambi, Cabrera and even Holiiday (to a lesser extent) are performing well under expectations. After a promising start in the minors, Daric Barton is fizzling. Swisher, Dan Johnson, Crosby, after initial good seasons they’ve all been a bust.

The roster has been a revolving door over the past few years, yet the trends stay consistent. Good or decent pitching, rash of injuries, no power, low RISP, declining/low batting averages. At this point I am convinced it’s an organizational problem.

I’ll bet if Tejada or Branyan came here, they would be performing much worse than they currently are with their respective teams.

by murlow on Jul 4, 2009 1:03 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

good post!!

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jul 4, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bet is that it has something to do with their offensive philosophy...

…which much of the time comes off as “Hope for the walk and if not, good luck!”

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 4, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't discount the effect of the Coliseum

The Coliseum has been one of the 2 worst hitter’s parks in the AL for about 15 years, with a weird period in the earlier part of this decade when it was about average. It’s really hard for young players to adjust to the majors in a park where fouling the ball off means an out, and crushing a drive to the outfield often means a warning-track fly ball. On the other hand, it’s a really good place to start your career as a pitcher.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 4, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the foul territory is more significant.

In any park, some well-hit balls come up a little short and end up being warning-track outs. In that respect, the Coliseum just sets the bar a little higher than most. (And even that varies considerably according to the time of day and weather.)

But the foul territory punishes a certain style of hitting. A player who relies on making a lot of contact and fouling off a lot of pitches is going to be hurt worse, because some of those fouls turn into outs in the Coliseum. In contrast, someone like Jack Cust, who typically takes a lot of pitches but smacks it hard when he does make contact, is not much affected by the foul territory at all.

It makes you wonder how much the supposed A’s style of hitting is a function of the ballpark.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Jul 4, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not just the park

It’s a mindset, hitting breeds hitting. And the A’s don’t have the right mindset. We’ve seen some great hitting teams in this ballpark, this decade in fact. We need a kick your ass manager to bring some life to the team. Or hitting coach, or veteran players, or something, someone, somehow to make players start to feel motivated to hit.

by dolemite on Jul 4, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fire Billy “the fraud” Beane. fire bob geren. end of discussion. billy beane is making brian sabean look like a genius, and thats hard to do.

by TedRamey on Jul 4, 2009 2:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Russell Branyan

A couple people above acknowledged Paul Thomas’s advocacy of the A’s signing Russell Branyan. I think it’s worth observing the context in which Paul recommended Branyan.

Specifically, Paul felt that Branyan was not just good but underrated as well. The reason he was underrated is because he’s a “three-true-outcomes” type player. TTO players tend to be underrated because (1) fans hate watching them take strikes, and (2) they tend to be very streaky and fans get impatient during the bad streaks.

Here’s Paul, in a comment from last July:

You know Russell Branyan? The guy who has hit 11 home runs in 29 games for the Brewers? You know what he did last season? He hit .196 and got waived by three different MLB teams before eventually finding himself out of work altogether.

OK. Russell Branyan is a worse hitter than Jack Cust.

Guys like Branyan, like Cust, like Pat Burrell and Ryan Howard, "three true outcomes" guys, are invariably streak hitters. Burrell was damn near run out of Philadelphia in the first half of last season. Since then? Well, he’s basically been the best hitter in the NL, or damn close. Now Howard’s slumping instead. OK. Deal with it.

It’s the price you pay to do business with that kind of bat. The price really isn’t that high, or at least it wouldn’t be if the fans weren’t constantly whining about it.

If we’re going to draw any lessons from Paul’s prescience, it’s not necessarily that we should go out and sign Branyan for 2010 — particularly if he keeps hitting as well as he is, in which case he might end up over-valued. Rather, we should look around for other TTO type players who may be undervalued, especially if they’re coming off a bad streak.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Jul 4, 2009 2:57 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Whatever value there is in TTO types...

…I sure don’t want a number of them on one team.

Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog

by Flashfire on Jul 4, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obligatory Latin pedantry

In Latin, the plural of status is statūs. In English, the plural of status is statuses

Not every Latin noun ending in -us pluralizes to -i. That pattern only applies to masculine nouns of the second declension. Fourth declension nouns, such as status (and census, prospectus, etc), pluralize to -ūs, with a long “u”.

Generally, English words ending in -us do not end in -i unless they derive from a second-declension Latin noun that does likewise. Any exceptions would have had to develop the irregular plural in English where it is not native. That would apply to hippopotami and arguably octopi, but not much else.

But to extrapolate the pattern to all English nouns ending in -usstatus, virus, bus — is just silly.

(Yes, yes, I know. You were intentionally being silly. “Quoing”. I get it.)

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Jul 4, 2009 3:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Oakland Athletics.

Community Guidelines ANcillary Terms
Start posting about the Athletics »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Imgp0089_editedagasin_small
Lunch time DLD 11/13/09 - Lets all move to the moon!
Small
Comparative Advantage: A Collaborative A's/Rays Solution
Green_small
(Un)official AN Tech Request Thread
Depaulbluedemons_small
Zonis's Off Season Charter
Ph3spec_small
Having fun with Pythagoras, or, who got lucky during 2009

Recent FanPosts

L_6e9e1917982e8159e008146a071f8d46_small
Who are the people in the upper deck portraits?
Waregroupcheck_small
DLD 11/11/09 - Veterans Day and Baseball
413niegoftl__sl500_aa280__small
Denorfia Outrighted
Countdown_small
Bill James 2010 Projections Now on Fangraphs
Bill_king_small
AFL Rising Stars Showcase Tonight on MLBN @ 5PM

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Managers

Tyler_at_maya_school_small Tyler Bleszinski

08-_the_author_small 67MARQUEZ

Baseball_small baseballgirl

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_small Nico

As_kings_cal_small louismg

Editors

Countdown_small Taj Adib

Ziegler160px_small Flashfire

527918550406_0_bg_small notsellingjeans