2010 Oakland Athletics: Internal and FA Options
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 12:08 AM PDT
Email
PrintObviously, this season is lost, and any trades made this year most likely will not directly benefit the 2010 team (unless, of course, Beane picks up Escobar from the Braves). With that in mind, let's look to next year, which, hopefully, will be what this year was not: a true rebuilding year, with a slight dash of hope for contention.
First, it would be best to rehash what the 2010 team will consist of without any changes, and provide the best free agent options for our open positions:
|
Position |
Player - 2010 |
Player-2009 |
Internal Improvement? |
F.A. Option A |
F.A. Option B |
F.A. Option C |
Cost (mm) for F.A.'s |
Best F.A. Option |
Best Overall Option |
|
|
|
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
|
|
|
|
1b |
Slight |
A - $7 B - $5 C - $6 |
Glaus |
Barton |
|||||
|
2b |
Adam Kennedy/Mark Ellis |
Slight |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
|
|
|
|
SS |
? |
n/a |
A - $5 B - $6 C - $3.5 |
Scutaro |
Scutaro |
||||
|
3b |
? |
Jack Hannahan, et al |
n/a |
A - $6 B - $9 C - $8 |
Tejada |
Tejada |
|||
|
RF |
Jack Cust, et al |
Slight |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
|
|
|
|
CF |
Ryan Sweeney |
Slight |
Chone Figgins |
|
A - $9 B - $8 |
Cameron |
Sweeney |
||
|
LF |
No |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
|
|
||
|
DH |
Jack Cust |
Jack Cust |
Slight |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
n/a |
|
|
I listed Scutaro and Tejada as the best overall free agent options. Please let me know if you disagree or think other F.A. options should be added. Here is the list of 2010 Free Agents provided by mlbtraderumors.com.
Regarding Scoot: Oakland needs a shortstop for three years (Green, hopefully will be up thereafter), and we know Scutaro can perform in Oakland and should hold up as a useful player for the length of the cotract (3yrs, 15mm).
Tejada: This is fully dependent on how his glove will hold up at third, but I believe we could get Tejada on a two year deal, which would bridge the gap to Cardenas in 2011-2012. Is 2 yrs., 12 million too low? Possibly; anything over that and it may be best to sign a AAAA retread.
Signing Scutaro and Tejada would also be beneficial vs. LH pitchers, as Tejada is above average versus lefties and Scutaro hits them significantly better than righties. Finally, I think adding Scutaro and Tejada would add fire and an expectation to win for the team, something needed while grooming the team's talented youngsters.
The A's shouldn't be worried about pitching. They have seven serviceable starters (BMAC, Gio, Eveland, and Gallagher) for a rebuilding year, and have more than enough combined major and minor league relieving talent. We saw this year and last (with Springer and Embree) how signing older, "mentoring" relievers can turn out. The A's have a very valuable, low-cost core of picthers, and shouldn't waste international and first-year draft signing money on this aspect of the team.
Finally, I think the team should consider a 4th outfielder/part-time DH who hits lefties extremely well. In case you hadn't noticed, the team currently has a .619 OPS vs. lefties and Sweeney, Buck, and Cust all have poor splits vs. left-handers. My number one choice for this role would be Gabe Kapler for around $2-3 millon, followed by Magglio Ordonez as a one-year reclamation project for around $3-4 million. I prefer Kapler because he has done well in a platoon this year with Gross (1.000 OPS this year, .886 last three), while I think that Ordonez has much higher risk/reward potential, especially since he and Scutaro (both Venezuelans) may fuel each other(although Maggs, in a sign of things to come, sucked it up in the WBC,while Scoot smoked the ball, sss aside).
As the A's will only have a salary of around $39 million next year (current salaries plus guesstimated $10 millon in arb. eligible raises/added minimum contracts), I think that they can comfortably add the $14-15 million it would take to re-acquire Scutaro and Tejada, and add Kapler/Ordonez. That would put the overall 2010 payroll at $53-54 million, still $8 million below the 2009 figure of $62mm. This extra amount could, and should, be used to: eat cash in trades this year, sign our draft picks next year, sign international players, and, possibly, allow us to pick someone up at the '10 trade deadline if the team surprises.
150 comments
|
6 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This is kind of cool
I think though, even though Boston will probably sign him, Bay might be considered in LF. Billy Beane has had a thing for him for a while. Also despite his falling numbers Giles may be an option too, not one I would like to pursue.
Man, and we talk about Giambi falling off a cliff...
He fell off the kid’s playground compared to Brian Giles.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 4, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, let's stay far away from both of the Giles brothers...
overall, the whole aging, past-their-prime signings are getting a bit old.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Nice work
I would probably add a couple things to third base option. Chone Figgins could be a FA option at that spot and I like him a bit better than the other options listed. Also Adrian Cardenas could be looked at as an internal option. He probably won’t be ready by next year but even if he spends the entire season in AA the A’s could send him to the AFL for a little extra seasoning and they have shown that they are not afraid to skip AAA if they think the guy is ready.
Agreed.
Figgins is Option A at 3B. Screw Tejada.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 4, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Although he will be a FA,
I don’t really see Branyan as a viable option. He’s 33, undoubtedly having the best year of his career this year, and hasn’t historically been anything all that special. I see why you included him, but performance and financially, I don’t think he makes a whole lot of sense.
I wouldn't mind Figgins at 3B!
Tejada can go away unless we believe he will play SS and Chavez will be back for 3B, and we pick up Giambi’s 2010 option to play 1B and Ellis remains healthy for 2B…
"Where's the beef?"
Wolff likes Figgins, or mentioned him in an interview
We want to be younger and faster. We’re running more this year. We’re doing a lot of things that people may not see. One of my favorite ballplayers is (Chone) Figgins and we’re getting a couple of guys like that.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
He would help this team a ton
I also happen to think he’s one of the most underrated players in the AL.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Totally agree
And with the slegnA’s crop of AAAA infielders (Izturis, Aybar, Kendrick, Wood, Rodriguez) who the slegnA brass think are superstars, Figgins is bound to walk next year.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
When you first proposed signing...
I was about to post a big DO NOT WANT but then looked at his numbers at fangraphs and was surprised that A) he didn’t suck and B) that he actually was pretty good. Depending on the deal I could advocate signing him but he isn’t at the top of my 3b wishlist.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Beltre is younger and better
Figgins is 31, which is not the age you want to acquire a no-power speedy slap hitter as a rule.
Optimism!
1- Looking at 2009 Giambi and 2008 Barton’s defensive numbers, there’s about a 15 run difference in favor of Barton in the field if you look at UZR/150. If Barton improves over his (BABIP fueled) 2008 numbers and can put up a ~105 wOBA+ in the bigs, ding, that’s a bit more than a slight improvement.
And you have to figure Chris Carter might bang on a few doors.
And, hopefully Buck over Cust in RF is a significant improvement on defense alone, since I think Buck can be about an average hitter, which when coupled with his defense makes him a really good player.
2- Re: your poll, I don’t think eating salary this year to get the best prospects has any bearing on next year’s payroll, since the A’s, if they were contending, would’ve paid the whole salary anyway and most likely budgeted this year to pay their salaries.
But then Stassi, Green, Dyson, Krol, and the international market are a huge deal.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
But your post was really good anyway.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Very nice summary!
My #1 FA option, over Scutaro or Tejada, would be Figgins. He’s a true leadoff hitter, can steal 40 bases, and he’s a .300 hitter, all qualities the A’s lack. And as the kicker, he can play 3B or CF. I’d put down real money to get Figgins, and then supplement with a cheaper second FA signing such as Scutaro, Kapler, etc.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I just hope he doesn't sign to play for us then
pull an O-Cab (sucks, forgets how to hit/ field).
"Where's the beef?"
I'm starting to agree about Figgins...
seeing that he has really improved his 3b defense over the past two years. But how much can the A’s get him for? Is 4 yrs, $40mm too much? Perhaps a tad, I’d love to get him for 4 yrs, $32mm. It will definitely end up being money better spent than signing Rafael Furcal. Here’s a deent discussion at mlbtraderumors.com about Chone.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I was actually thinking in 4/40 terms, that
it would be a way better risk than Furcal would have been in that Figgins has never had back surgery, and his versatility to play 3B, 2B, CF — positions where the A’s have injuries or holes — would make him super-valuable as an actual living, breathing “lead-off hitter who can bat .300 and run like the wind.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Except he doesn't play any of those positions well defensively and would block prospects
If he is moved off of third for Cardenas and plays CF he isn’t better than Sweeney, if you consider Sweeney’s league average defense vs Chones likely at least -6 RAA suckitude in CF and believe that Sweeney will return to a league average wOBA like he had last year. He even potentially blocks Corey Brown in CF in 2011. Otherwise I don’t know what you want to do with Cardenas when he is ready at the end of next year at the absolute latest.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
We are you getting
the defensive numbers for Figgins? Also, I think w need to be a bit more conservative about our prospects “ready at the latest” timeframes. These haven’t really worked for us in the past.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Per fangraphs.com
Figgins currently has been worth 2.3 WAR already this season. I fully expect him to regress with the bat a bit over four years, but think his defense will remain adequate, which would put him at about a 3-3.5 WAR player, a significant improvement and well worth the money. Sometimes hen you have the money, you should spend it! That said, I think you bring up a good point re: Cardenas because, after looking at his defensive numbers, we shouldn’t expect to move Figgins to CF in years 3 and 4 of the deal, although I think some would argue it ’ better not to count your chickens before they’ve hatched and take the guaranteed iprovement when ou can get it.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
P.S. sorry aboutthe typing errors. This is the worst keyboard in the world...
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
external locus of control?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
sometimes a shitty keyboard is just a shitty keyboard
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 5, 2009 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think you can say a guy who
plays so many different positions “blocks prospects”.
If he blocks a prospect at one position, move him to another. And if by some miracles our prospects at all of those positions are good enough we want them in the lineup, then count your blessings.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Figgins FTW
Given his versatility and the A’s propensity for injuries he makes a lot of sense. Given our needs it would be borderline criminal not to sign him. Plus speed is something this team needs. Sure, we have Rajai, but he’s not a bat we can play everyday. I’m fairly certain (would like some numbers to back it up) that the threat of a stolen base is an advantage to the hitter at the plate.
Signing a 32-year-old because you need speed is an odd decision
He might maintain a good OBP, but very few players maintain their speed into their mid-30s. Figgins’ SB% has been dropping and is now pretty much at the break-even rate (around 70%).
I’m fairly certain (would like some numbers to back it up) that the threat of a stolen base is an advantage to the hitter at the plate.
Back in the 1980s when Rickey and Raines and Willie Wilson were running wild, and sabrmetrics was getting off the ground, lots of analysts tried to prove this was the case. I don’t think anyone succeeded. In fact, it’s probably the case that it messes up hitters to have to take pitches to let a runner try to steal bases.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 5, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good points
Forget Figgins is so old, probably for the same reason I still write 1994 on checks, haha. I’m still of the opinion speed is a good thing, if only for coming into to score on a ball in play.
Now I’m really interested to see some numbers, given what you’ve stated.
With the health of the team always in the air
It would be good to have someone who is versatile but is actually serviceable. When someone gets hurt (eg. Sweeney CF, Ellis at 2B, whoever is at 3B) it would be nice to have someone who can be at least decent playing the position. I doubt it’ll be hard for find playing time for Figgins even if someone is outplaying him at those respective positions because sooner or later one of them will probably miss time. It’s good to have a solid utility player (“DeRosa-type player” GM’s are trying to find) especially when they’re many important players missing significant time.
The problem is always cost and I think that we could possibly live with 4/40M for a solid utility starter.
After reviewing...
I think 4 yrs $40 million is too much. I would cap out at around 4 yrs $32mm for Figgins. I think he will stay adquate with the glove but will be up and down with the bat, posting something along he lines of .770, .720, .750, .710 over the four years.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, mostly because that's all it will probably take to sign him
But I think people are worrying too much about where he’ll play and who he’ll block. In the course of 4 years, a ton of unexpected things will happen. Maybe Cardenas gets injured or maybe he flames out, or maybe Weeks keeps getting injured or flames out, and Cardenas — or Figgins — is needed more at 2B. Or maybe someone comes knocking on the door offering a lot in trade for Sweeney, or maybe Sweeney needs TJ surgery a la Denorfia and is out for 12-18 months.
We hardly need to worry about having too many healthy players or too many good offensive players.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This is true.
And we sure have the money, and need a lead-off guy.
by librariansunite on Jul 5, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
We need a SS far more than we need a 3bman IMO
Hannahan is a 2-2.5 WAR player who can hold down the fort till Cardenas makes his presence felt. We don’t have a viable SS prospect knocking on the door by midseason to put up with Petit or Moneypenny.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree.
Hannahan is incredibly frustrating, but he’s underrated. Isn’t Tejada still a reasonable defender at SS? If so, I’d be happy to welcome him back. I’d also be interested in a short-term show-me deal for Beltre.
Per fangraphs.com
Tejada’s below average this year. I’d rather get Scutaro.
by librariansunite on Jul 5, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Tejada has up and down years defensively at short.
I wonder what a scouting report would say about his ability to play there for the next 2 seasons.
If Scutaro’s numbers on defense hold up, he’d be a better bet for sure. I just wonder what he’ll get paid, since he’ll see some salary inflation due to his fluky power surge.
I’d question adding medium level free agents. How close are the A’s to contention?
Baseball isn't magic.
Half a season is not an adequate sample size for considering a player's UZR.
It’s about 1/6 of an adequate sample size.
All things considered, comparing Tejada to Scutaro (or Figgins, for that matter) is kinda like comparing Philadelphia to Pluto.
They both start with "p"
Next?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They both start with "p,"
but one of them, despite its problems – drugs, aging infrastructure, corruption – is not a bad place to live. The other was lucky to be considered a “starter” in the first place.
I have been drinking again, but its 1am here, so I think I deserve a break. At any rate, this is the best I can do.
When you're ready to talk about Uranus,
I’ll be ready to leave.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
My #1 offseason moe is Moe Sislack.
Sure, he doesn’t bathe and he’ll steal your money if you fall asleep on your bar stool, but he’s always there to help you get drunk.
As much as I hate the Halos...
Figgins has always been one of two Angels (Vlad, of course, being the other) that I’ll watch without muttering unpleasantries under my breath (when it comes to Lackey: I just shout my curses at the top of my lungs…). Bottom line: Chone would be an absolutely great pickup for the Green & Gold.
Plus, it would be cool to have an A’s jersey with “Chone” on the back. One of my kids once asked: “Why name your kid after underwear?” I helped him out with the pronunciation.
"The only way I'm going to get a Gold Glove is with a can of spray paint." - Reggie Jackson
I don't see the problem
My three kids are named Calvin, Klein, and Victoria. Victoria is the boy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why do you think Tejada is a better third base option than Beltre?
Why do you think Sweeney is a better overall option than Cameron?
You might be right, I just don’t have anything other than the conclusion to go on.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Beltre's offensive numbers this year are terrible, and we haven't seen...
how he comes back from injury yet. He will also be expensive with Boras as his agent, IIRC. Cameron would be a lot of fun to watch, but with age/switch back to A.L., he would regress too much, IMO. He hasn’t been in the A.L. since Seattle and he didn’t have a particularly good year that year. I tink the switch to the N.L. ha helped his bat. Also, h’ll probably get around 2 yrs 16 mm which will be better spent elsewhere.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
If Carl Crawford became available (Rays 2010 option declined)
then I would push for him to be our leadoff hitter and have him play CF.
What about Ankiel to play CF? I would make DeRosa at 3B my number one FA target!
Just something different to stir up the discussion board…
"Where's the beef?"
I'm aware Crawford plays LF, but with his speed I think
he wouldn’t have a problem and may be excited for the switch??
"Where's the beef?"
I wouldn't target DeRosa for more than a 2-year deal
He’s 34 and I’ve always liked the guy but the A’s need to stop messing around so much with late 30s players who used to be good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't think there's any chance...
the Rays decline that option. He’s one of the top OF’s in the league, he’d be on my all-star team. I think DeRosa is overrated for the price he will demand (3yrs 21mm?), but might be a nice fit for us, as he can play multiple positions. He also has a nice three year split vs. left-handers. I do think DeRosa is a better option than Beltre at the moment, though.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
If we did sign DeRosa he probably would play 3B, 1B and even 2B if Ellis went down...
I think the A’s really need to re-sign Adam Kenendy asap!
"Where's the beef?"
I think Crawford is unwilling to play CF,
even though he’s obviously good enough to play it. Ankiel’s also a pretty terrible defender in CF.
So you think if you put Crawford in the lineup in CF,
he’d walk off the field and drive home? ‘Cuz I’m thinking he’d play there!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No but he isn't going to sign with you if you tell him thats where you will play him
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I haven't heard that he's unwilling
He first moved off the position to accommodate Joey Gathright, who at the time was a top prospect. And when Gathright was ruled a bust/traded, BJ Upton came along.
His value is maximized if he’s willing to play CF, since that gets more teams involved in the bidding.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
I don't have a link for you,
but it’s commonly repeated around Baseball Think Factory that he has said explicitly that he wants to play LF, for whatever that’s worth. Of course, like Nico said, that doesn’t mean that he won’t play there if told, but he’ll be unhappy, and won’t sign with you in the first place.
Jack Hannahan at 3B for your 2010 Oakland A's ____________
(please insert your opinion in blank space provided)
"Where's the beef?"
What time is your neurosurgeon operating?
In all seriousness, this team will never contend with Hannahan at 3rd and if he was there the GM would be certifiable for the nuthouse.
Hannahan should not see anyone’s ML roster, ever.
If what the A's want is someone
who drinks too much and can’t hit, I am available.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The crazy faces and alcohol would lighten up the clubhouse.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Hey -- gigglingone doesn't look THAT crazy
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You're right, gigglingone doesn't.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
and earn Loiza would get 7 more DUIs
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
is a 2-2.5 WAR player and isn't a terible stopgap till Cardenas is ready.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Magglio
I think he has an option that vests with plate appearances that will be hard not to hit if he isn’t deliberately benched for prolonged periods. His agent is Boras who has already gone public with criticism of his benching.
However, Boras has been notably silent about Ordonez's persistent sucking.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
not saying you guys are wrong
but Maggs isn’t playing as poorly as Jones did and it is a violation of the CBA to bench him to avoid his option.
Taj's Plan:
- I like the Tejada to 3rd base plan, possibly for anywhere between 6-8 million per year for two years. Tejada can play 3rd most of the time and can save a roster spot by also being the backup shortstop.
- This off-season I would hope the A’s aggressively look to trade for JJ Hardy. The Brewers look to be holding onto Alcides Escoboar and he’s just about big league ready, while Hardy is kind of struggling this year and will be in his final year of arbitration in 2010. The Brew Crew also needs pitching. Maybe a deal involving Henry Rodriguez, Dana Eveland (originally drafted by Brewers) and Eric Patterson for Hardy could work?
- Two free agent options I think that are being overlooked: Xavier Nady and Coco Crisp. I know both guys will be coming off significant injuries that required season-ending surgery, but the surgeries they are getting don’t really affect the main tools you’d be paying them for (Crisp is getting labrum surgery, which does not affect his range in center field nor his speed on the basepaths nor his fair ability to hit left-handed pitching – he reportedly only felt pain when hitting left-handed. Nady is getting his 2nd Tommy John surgery, but Will Carroll seems to think he’ll be fine by the end of Spring Training. He’d likely be able play mostly 1st base early in the season (where he has past experience and is a decent fielder) and then shuffle into left field a bit later on in the season. Both Crisp and Nady hit lefty-pitching pretty well relative to their positions and can be platooned to keep them fresh (Crisp can be platonned with Sweeney in center, while Nady can be platooned with Barton or Chavez at 1st). Both guys have been Beane targets in the past and would likely come discounted (like $5 million a year for each, possibly including some form of incentives).
- Chavez: I think there’s still a possibility Eric could come back next season…strictly as a 1st baseman or occasional DH and ONLY against right-handers.
- Kennedy: If Beane doesn’t flip him for something of middling value before this year’s deadline AND he continues to show that he can be a productive bat, I would like to see Beane retain him for another year to back-up 2nd and 3rd, for something like $1 million or a little less. He’d provide some veteran depth in the infield.
When all is said and done, this is how I’d like to see the offense rebuilt:
Against RHP:
1 – Sweeney (CF)
2 – Cunningham (LF)
3 – Cust (DH)
4 – Hardy (SS)
5 – Chavez/Barton (1B)
6 – Tejada (3B)
7 – Buck (RF)
8 – Suzuki ©
9 – Ellis/Kennedy (2B)
Against LHP:
1. Crisp (CF)
2. Buck (RF)
3. Nady (1B)
4. Hardy (SS)
5. Tejada (3B)
6. Cust (DH)
7. Suzuki ©
8. Ellis (2B)
9. Cunningham (LF)
This isn’t the perfect solution to all the problems this team faces, especially considering the injury histories of the parties involved, but I think that if a premium is paid on depth, this team could feature a nice blend of above-average defense (with Suzuki, Ellis/Hardy and Crisp part of the time up the middle), a solid lineup against both righties and lefties, some depth with positional flexibility, a little speed on the basepaths and even a nice blend of power/patience and free swingers from both sides of the plate.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
That won't work for a Hardy deal.
Gallagher might, but Eveland is pitching like an AAA pitcher in AAA ball right now. Unless that changes, he might not stick on the 40-man past this season. I can’t get behind Nady and Crisp, either—we’ve just been bit too many times going down that particular path. At this point, I see no scenario in which the A’s are going to be more than a .500 team next year, even though the pitching will be very good, so I’d like to see them play as many of the kids as possible so we can see if any of them will be good. Let’s save the money for the 2011 season.
I approve of the copyrighting of Kurt Suzuki, though.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
if we have to pay royalties everytime we say "Suzuki"
AN is going to go broke.
I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.
is "Kurk" an acceptable answer as well?
I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.
Couple of problems with the future in Tajastan
1 The Hardy trade is as jeepers pointed out skewed far enough in our favor that Michael Lewis might have to write another book if Beane pulled it off (one that gets the ax from Sony because Beane picks up 2 or 3 waitresses at TGI Fridays while Frost looks on, because he would be that on fire) :-P. I think the package would be Gio if he pitches ok for the rest of the year/ Gallagher if he returns from knee problems, Henriguez and someone doing well in the low minors like Coleman/Christian. I try very hard to get a extension window included as a part of the trade.
2 2nd TJs are much worse that the original (trust me if you go back to the donkey show for a second time is says problem :-P). Only 20% of 2nd TJs are successful while something like 80% of the 1rst ones are. Nady doesn’t really have a position on the team IMO and I don’t realy want him anyway. Crisp isn’t a bad idea though his durability worries me if you are relying on him being an everyday player.
3 I would rather sign Beltre to a 1yr deal with lots of incentives and allow for Cardenas to take over after that then sign Tejada for 2.
4 Otherwise generally a good plan.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
One question:
Why would Beltre want to play in Oakland, which significantly lowered Holliday’s value? I don’t think Boras would ever let a player play in Oakland on a one-year, incentive-laden deal, especially when he will have limited protection in the lineup.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
What do you think is a probable package for Hardy?
I just have a hunch he’ll be available this off-season and think the A’s should pursue him, but I also don’t want them to overpay. I thought that the Brewers might have mild interest in Eveland since they drafted him, need pitchers that keep the ball in the park because of the dimensions of Miller and generally just eat innings.
I would also think that H-Rod would be on their radar since Hoffman will likely retire after this season. I have no idea what else they’d be interested in. I don’t know their system or even their major league team all that well.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
The Brewers were also quick to move Eveland
Pitching would be the key to landing Hardy… maybe the oft-traded Gio Gonzalez and Rodriguez?
Hell, I’d pull that trigger now if the Brewers were interested.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'd do that in a NY minute. But I suspect
it would take more to land Hardy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How small do you think Miller Park is?
I’d also note that the Brewers have a fair number of pitchers who profile as end of the rotation guys who could pitch next year. Dana Eveland was bad for the Brewers. Every now and then commenters say something like “he should pitch in the NL.” He did. He was bad. The Brewers also saw a fair amount of Gallagher. I’ll accept that he has some potential, but up to now he has been between adequate and bad.
What the Brewers need is a SP who can be around a #3 or a bit better. If Hardy isn’t enough, maybe throwing in some innings eaters would cinch the deal.
/jk on that last part
"I just have a hunch he’ll be available this off-season and think the A’s should pursue him, but I also don’t want them to overpay."
Totally agree and I was gonna post something similar to this yesterday beofre I left for the day. You beat me to the punch again Taj!
Seriously, though, a package centered around either Gio, Gallagher, or HRod in my opinion would get it done. Perhaps the A’s even make James Simmons part of the deal, although I have not had a chance to see his stuff live.
Anyhow, I absolutely want the A’s to do this deal unless they get Escobar from the Braves, which would also be sweet. Definitely, if the A’s get Escobar then we’re sorted. If not go after Hardy in the off season with a window to negotiate an extension first, and then pull the trigger. Go A’s!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Agreed, but one thing.
. If not go after Hardy in the off season with a window to negotiate an extension first, and then pull the trigger.
Why would such a window be present? The Brewers have no way to provide such a window of negotiation. This isn’t like Johan Santana, where he had a NTC and would only approve a trade if an extension was agreed on.
Hardy has no reason to negotiate an extension, especially with quite a few “big” teams possibly looking for SS after the 2010 season.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
That's why if I'm Beane I try to get Hardy and his agent to negotiate an extension.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
The suggested trade pieces don't seem to suggest much desire
Melvin might look at it the same way. They could just keep him and trade him at the deadline next year.
Hmm, I don't think Crisp would be enough of an improvement over Sweeney to warrant the signing.
Crisp’s hitting would suffer enough in Oakland to about even them out WAR-wise. I wouldn’t riskmore than $1-2 millin guaranteed on him, and think that money and roster spot would be better used on a better hitting 4th OF. I think Crisp will demand more than that in the market.
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Hardy at SS
Chevaz will never play 1st base and probably will never play again period for the A’s
Cunningham/Sweeney/Buck for our 3 outfielders is fine with me. Let the kids play past their Soph slump.
I seriously doubt that Crisp will play for the A’s as he really isn’t a long term upgrade but could be a good backup.
Barton at 1st , we don’t need Nady. Again. let the kid have a chance past his soph slump
Tejada won’t ever play for the A’s again and I think Kennedy will be help over until Cardenas can come up which could be in 2010.
Let Cust play where he is best and doesn’t hurt the team. DH only
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Due to the A's tendency to go after low-risk, high-reward types,
we on AN can always get caught up in debates about who is best in scenarios where talent, health, age and affordability are somewhat arbitrarily weighed against one another.
Given that hurt-but-good/cheap hasn’t worked out so well recently, I would rather see the A’s spend a few million extra and go for the more reliable guys. To me, this means Winn/Abreu over Nady, and Byrd over Crisp.
Hardy is someone I have more than once expressed a desire to see in an A’s uniform, but I have a feeling that as long as the Brewers are contenders they aren’t going to be sellers, and I would hate for the A’s to give up more young talent for another rent-a-player.
One thing I wonder about Hardy is whether the Yankees would forsake their golden boy for the best FA SS available in the foreseeable future? Both are free agents in 2011, and despite their tendency to way overspend, the Yankees at least tend to overspend on the right players – and Hardy would certainly fit the profile of being the type of SS who only hits the market once every few years. So I wonder, if the Yanks go for Hardy, does that mean Jeter could end up in another uni? And if they stick with Jeter, does Hardy suddenly become cheaper, perhaps considerably?
Jeter will play for the Yankees till his teeth start falling out!
I’m thinking he retires a Yankee.
Should we send J.J. Hardy a care package?
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
I'm not really in favor of signing guys like DeRosa or Tejada to multi-year deals
What happens to Cardenas when he’s ready?
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
This
reason number 1,230 to sign Beltre to a 1 year incentive laden deal.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
That's why Figgins is a better signing.
He can play all over the diamond.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 4, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
He is going to be out till 2012 probably.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I look for Outman to be back in 2011 and look for FDLS to be ready for the majors in 2012 and maybe sooner
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
All signs point to another disappointing offense...
Sigh.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
True...
but I’d be happy to pcik the offense out of the bottom of the barrel offensively while improving the defense. Soetimes, you just have to rebuild!
by librariansunite on Jul 4, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
When was the last time the A's legitimately built a good offense?
You can’t count the Giambi and Tejada days. Obviously, their success was largely based on the fact that they used steroids.
I agree though that building the defense can, in many ways, be as good as building the offense. However, you still have to score some runs.
Any offense that will have Sweeney, Buck, Ellis, Cunningham, Hannahan (3B??), and Suzucki will not score runs.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
The A's effectively picked players who would use roids
That’s a pretty successful strategy. Plus everyone was on the juice so it really doest invalidate their success.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
MAybe all of us at AN can not build a good offense at least on paper,
because we are thinking like Beane who obviously can;t build an offense either!!!
"Where's the beef?"
We have alot of holes going into 2010....
The SS’s available aren’t very good as a whole. I think Beane needs to target a potential SS in a trade (hopefully Escobar for Holliday/Cabrera). If Beane could get this deal done, he should sign Figgins, Adam LaRoche, and Mark DeRosa (who could play some outfield until the first injury to one of the infielders). This would leave us with a lineup of:
1. Figgins 3B
2. Escobar SS
3. Cust DH
4. LaRoche 1B
5. DeRosa LF
6. Sweeney CF
7. Suzuki C
8. Buck RF
9. Ellis 2B
I think that lineup should provide some decent offensive production. If not LaRoche, Beane could also target guys like Blalock, Huff, or Nick Johnson. Unfortunately, I have this bad feeling he’s going to go after Thome…
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
for RF though,
I wouldn’t be totally opposed to going after Abreu in free agency or Rios via trade.
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
Wow, sure is a lot of Figgins love on this thread.
Good thing Bloom isn’t reading.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I just like how pretty the post looks
Is that an Excel sheet on whey protein?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Thanks!
It’s actually a table in OpenOffice’s word program. Just dl’ed it for my in-laws (up for the holiday) and I highly recommend it so far. Gotta love the price – free!
I was actually going to write up the table in html, but this was so much easier!
by librariansunite on Jul 5, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
OO is the shit
That is all.
DFA
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I endorse this statement
signed,
Blicks
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
I'm supprised no one has mentioned Vlad
He’s a typical aging vet pick-up for Beane. Here’s the free agent order I’d like to see the As front office go after:
1) Figgins—FINALLY, a true lead off hitter, and his multiple positions mean the A’s can play him wherever he is needed to not block prospects. Two of those positions, 3B and CF, are huge holes for the A’s right now.
2) Vlad—Aging (sometimes aging multiple years in the time a single person ages one) and having a down year, he’s a typical aging vet pick-up for Beane. He’s has MUCH more business in RF then Cust does (who has no business ever being in RF) and could share time with G/Cust at DH. Also, if he has anything close to a rebound year would pretty much replace Holliday’s production.
3) Tejada—Overrated by most A’s fans, before he was shown the door by Beane and went to the highest bidder he was the heart of the team, but he hasn’t shown anything close to that leadership ability since then. If we can get him on a Giambi-like deal (3.5M) lets buy low since it would keep Adrian Cardenas’ bat from being wasted at 3B and let Cardenas slide to SS, but I think a lot of the A’s fans on AN need to take off the rose colored glasses and see him for what his is—and aging, washed up, steroid user more likely to be on the decline then Giambi or Vlad. I have VERY fond memories of Tejada too guys, but for the sake of Giambi’s golden speedo, wake up and smell the leaking septic tank.
4) Beltre—Another option at 3B who’s good if the A’s can pick them up on a 1 year rental.
5) Scoot—Good 1 year option at SS, but another player over-valued by A’s fans. You take the guy away from the hitter’s park the Jay’s have and there is no reason to think he’ll be able to hit all that well again. Good for a year or less at SS until Cardenas is ready, but that’s it.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
Vlad = DO NOT WANT.
Cardenas should be ready next year. He needs to be in Sacto later this season. If the 3B is a plus defender, I’m perfectly OK with Cardenas at SS, especially since Unicorn is the best defensive 2B in baseball.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
Suggestion: Stop thinking of Cardenas as a SS
He’s a SS the way Barton was a 3Bman and Cust an OF — theoretically, yes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah true.
Just not a “get guys after they have career years” person (see: Scutaro)
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
Or
A “get guys after they have career years in hitter’s parks” person (see: Holliday and Scutaro)
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Jul 5, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not that I think that Cardenas is the A's future SS
It’s that I think Cardenas is the best option at SS until Elis’ contract is up.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Jul 5, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Except that he can't really play SS
Even at the minor league level that experiment appears to be over.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Agreed
I’m really hoping Cardenas can stick at 3rd base because tha’s one less gaping hole filled in the next 1-2 years. I’m not opposed to having Tejada back for two years or maybe a 1 year deal + option. He’s really having a nice year and he can still hit for power, and his glove will do fine moving over the hot corner.
Then either we get Hardy or Escobar till Grant Green is ready, or if he doesn’t sign, then you have a backup plan in one of Escobar or Hardy, hopefully signed long term at that point after being acquired in a trade.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Cardenas is extremely unlikely to be good next year
so it would be pointless and stupid to have him in Oakland. And he’s not a SS. Fun fact: Pennington has hit better than Cardenas this year.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
he was mostly
just a throw in in that joe blanton deal last year
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
no, he was considered better than Outman
I’m not down on Cardenas at all, I think he’s the A’s best prospect but he’s still very young and will have to develop at least a little power before he’ll be a valuable player.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
yes
but not THE best in the athletics system
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
Fun fact.
Cardenas’ AAA stint was at the beginning of the year and small sample size. He’s absolutely mashed in AA.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
Pennington: .288/.377/.398 in AAA.
Cardenas: .312/.391/.424 in mostly AA.
As for beginning of the year, June/July:
Pennington: .308/.413/.495 in AAA.
Cardenas: .336/.419/.395 in AA.
I’m not down on Cardenas at all, he’s just a ways from being a good major league player.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
Makes one wonder
why the A’s don’t simply give Pennington a chance at short.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
And, Moneypenny hit a grand slam last night
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Ya
I’ve been real down on the guy, but I recently looked at his stats and he needs to be starting. I think once OrCab is traded, or the deadline is passed Pennington gets the starting job.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
You mind giving me a reason you do not want Vlad?
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Jul 5, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
4 reasons:
1) Steep offensive decline due to constant injuries (although this probably makes him attractive to the A’s)
2) Horrible defensive RF
3) Possibility of him blocking young guys like Cunningham, etc.
4) If Cust and Vlad are on the same team, one of them is going to have to “play” RF, thereby negating a lot of the value they bring offensively.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
All of this.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
Mostly, it's that he's too young and healthy
Give it maybe 2-3 more years, and then bring him on for his “leadership.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think Scutaro is maybe underrated by A's fans at this point
There’s no way he’ll every do as well as he’s doing this year, but he’s good for an above average obp and his defense seems to still be good. If he’s good for near league-average offense and average defense, that’s a damn good player.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
If we'd known then (11/07) what we know now (07/09)
Scoot would never have left, and Croz would be someone else’s problem
I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.
I was curious about Scoot's home/road splits
Home – 230/382/344 (OPS 726)
Road – 335/457/419 (OPS 876)
and he hits .351 on grass (no pun intended) and .227 on turf
So the notion of the Jay’s hitters park boosting his numbers makes me think twice
I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.
Good Ideas
Imagine if the A’s signed Beltre, mostly to have him play against the Marinersw, and heck hes still ok. Also, Glaus is worth a gamlbe of 1-5 million
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra
Ankiel
I’m from St. Louis, so I’ve had a lot of exposure to Ankiel since his resurgence as a position player, including the minor leagues. There are three things you need to know about Ankiel:
1. He’s a horrible defensive CF. It’s bad. Much worse than Sweeney. He’s a better fit in RF, especially since he has possibly the best arm in the NL.
2. I think his numbers thus far are pretty flukey. Most of his power comes from the HR, which will be more difficult in Oakland.. and he’s historically not had very good plate discipline.
3. He’s had some injury problems recently, and his numbers have dropped off quite a bit from the previous year. He’ll be 31 next year, too.
IMO, he’s not a very good option at all. He’s not a CFer, and I’d much rather see Buck in RF.
"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."
by VORP is too nerdy on Jul 5, 2009 4:11 PM PDT reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Pennsylvania senator cries foul over Nats plans to take back park from Phillies fans
- Photo: Comerica Park readies itself for Hockeytown
- Podcast: Dirk Hayhurst talks about Italy, the reality of the big leagues and his new book
- Dennis ‘Oil Can’ Boyd claims he used cocaine before a majority of his games
- Does Billy Beane’s contract extension signal an optimistic dawn for Oakland fans?
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
