Cabrera Deal To Twins For Young SS Reportedly A Done Deal
by Nico on Jul 31, 2009 10:24 AM PDT
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Last Chance to buy AN Tickets for the August 22nd game! Order yours now or contact me before the end of the day if you want to go!
From Rotoworld:
According to Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports, the Twins have acquired Orlando Cabrera from the A's for 21-year-old shortstop Tyler Ladendorf.
Ladendorf has a .322/.403/.496 batting line, four home runs and 21 RBI and three stolen bases in 121 at-bats this season at the Single-A level. He may not be in striking distance of a major league job for two or three years, but is young and cheap -- just how Oakland GM Billy Beane likes 'em. On the other end of the deal, Cabrera finally gives Minnesota a reliable shortstop, both at the plate and in the field. They're making a run for the AL Central.
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And if we lose enough
Maybe we can get Strasberg or Harper in next year’s draft
by GusanoQuemador on Jul 31, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Lose, lose...
lose. We’ll never be able to sign Strasberg.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably set your sights way too high
Apparently the Twins rarely trade top prospects and Cabrera wasn’t going to get you one.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
yeah
and it could be worse. 2-3 more years of Ladendorf is ceratinly worth the next 2 months of OCab.
i was wrong to do that stuff
by jaylikewise on Jul 31, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
And like others are noting, Ladendorf may be pretty decent in the long run
At the least, it’s better than getting nothing for Cabrera at the end of the year because he can’t be offered arbitration.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Man, Ladendorf?
This is a good read on him
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Jul 31, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions
Link Below:
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Jul 31, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Duke, aka "PTBNL"
Sounds right to me.
My guess is Wuertz stays. I think it anyone was going to wow Billy enough for him we’d have heard about it by now.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Jack Cust to the Braves...
for a nice, ripe bushel of peaches.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Here are the latest stats on Ladendorf for this season.
Here are the career numbers for Ladendorf.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 10:35 AM PDT reply actions
LOL
Wow, what a year it’s been at shortstop….
There's no crying in baseball!
by gigglingone on Jul 31, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
this is what I thought too
…unless Pennington gets called up ? Anyone else play short in Sacto?
Bob Geren, on 8/2/07, on the success of Alan Embree as new interim closer: "What can I say,... he's been our Steady Tremendous Bullpen Man"
by popcornjames on Jul 31, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I am now officially lost.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
It's actually thank you my friend
and Petit and Petite both mean little, the former is masculine little and the latter feminine
by petitceebee on Jul 31, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
pas un problem
I lived in France for 2 years so I feel entitled to be a self-righteous, pompous ass
by petitceebee on Jul 31, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I took 10 years of french in school
But can’t remember most of it, just bits and pieces
A's fan, trapped in North Carolina!
I'm sure you still know more French
then those froggies know English
by petitceebee on Jul 31, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Alors, je ne veux pas etre 'cet homme', mais
Ami, en anglais, signfie “friend”. “love” est “amor”.
eh bien.
duh.
“amour”
it’s good to know I spell as poorly in French as I do in English
and "signifie", too.
les erreurs typographiques
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Silver lining
Crosby is hitting around .300 for July.
The problem with trading anyone who can hit is that NOBODY is left. And the team’s in trouble now with too few actual hitters.
We need to play guys like Buck, Cunningham and Pennington to see if we have some actual major league hitters for when it matters.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
How ironic would it be if Crosby stays hot until September
and throws a real wrench in the ’10 SS conundrum.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jul 31, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
is Duchschererer next?
SuSlu says he was scratched from his start tonight
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Jul 31, 2009 10:37 AM PDT reply actions
He's on the DL, can't be traded
McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there
by streetisclosedin08 on Jul 31, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
His A-Ball numbers aren't good
McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there
by streetisclosedin08 on Jul 31, 2009 10:37 AM PDT reply actions
He's just getting started. It's been literally about two weeks that he's been there.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
from gleeman at the beginning of the year:
“He turns 21 years old in March and is already big for a shortstop, so Ladendorf seems unlikely to stay at the position long term. That makes his offensive development crucial, so even if it was only 175 plate appearances at rookie-ball his poor pro debut was concerning. Still, Ladendorf’s junior-college exploits suggest that he’ll hit for strong batting averages soon enough, he displayed solid plate discipline amid the overall GCL struggles, and the Twins are clearly believers after taking him 60th overall.”
http://www.aarongleeman.com/2009_01_18_baseballblog_archive.html#4012823051211694079
From the scouting report linked above:
Ladendorf hopes to stay at shortstop, and he will if he does not get too big. He makes some very tough plays look routine at shortstop, and is quite fun to watch play the position. He also has a tremendous arm, and good range at the position. He could possibly play any position on the diamond, not including catcher, but the Twins drafted him as a shortstop, and plan to keep him there.
From that, it sounds like if he does get too big for SS, he might still do well at 3B.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Always good to have a guy like that
As long as his bat develops it sounds like he’s got the tools to be an average-plus defender somewhere on the diamond.
by CapgrasDelusion on Jul 31, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Makes the hard plays
That’s the sign of someone who’ll develop into a good shortstop, or third baseman.
Be still my heart...
…is young and cheap — just how Oakland GM Billy Beane likes ’em.
This, and “upside”, are the two phrases that make me cringe lately. Every time I read them. Both come off as codespeak for “We’re never gonna win a WS again, are we?”.
Ok, trying to be objective here… this particular deal seems ok, as no players were spent getting OC, and we did get a decent return for Holliday I think, but I’m still seeing what I feel is way too much fascination with staying cheap and young and getting more young prospects just because they’re young prospects.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
Yeah it is code for...
the major league team sucks.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
well besides Nomore Garseeyaparra and Giambi,
Holliday and OCab were the only other 2 brought to make a “run” this season.
Seems like Beane is just going back to the rebuilding course without really stepping back…
No value for NG or JG so, they just ride the pine and become mentors.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jul 31, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
There are always exceptions to the rule. The exception to the rule does not invalidate the rule itself.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
After 3 losing seasons
I agree. It’s getting old. They really need to start, you know, winning ball games for me to believe that there is actually a long term rebuilding plan (which I don’t mind) vs long term Pirates-style muddling along suckitude.
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jul 31, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
damn
If you can’t tell the difference between what the Pirates and and A’s are trying to do…well then maybe you should move to Pittsburgh. You sound frustrated so I will give you a pass.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
It seems like he rolled the dice on a run for it this year, effectively pushing the pause button on the rebuilding.
Come August 1st, it didn’t work and Holliday/O-Cab/Giambi/Garciaparra are nowhere to be seen near an Oakland baseball field. With all of the young audition players coming up now, the final two months of this losing season project to be the most interesting to watch.
And I also hope for a long-term rebuilding plan in mind as opposed to an ad hoc style. Definitive movement on a new stadium would really help support any such plan methinks.
Honestly what is the alternative? Stay a bad team filled with old players or stay a bad team but with young players?
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
MLBTR reporting ...
Twins also get cash in the deal
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Jul 31, 2009 10:49 AM PDT reply actions
CASH MONEY
The new lubricant that makes Billy Beane’s trades work.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jul 31, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
And you thought middle relievers were fungible.
Cash. Now that’s fungible.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
a's get the 2nd rd pick they lost for signing O-Cab back
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Jul 31, 2009 10:53 AM PDT reply actions
in Ladendorf
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on Jul 31, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully the Rivercats...
they win much more frequently.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
If by “River Cats” you mean Travis Buck, Aaron Cunningham and Cliff Pennington, then I hope so.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't like it
I am really sick of trading everyone on the team so we can get someone back.
Cabrera has been an absolute rock for the past month, and he and Holliday were hitting like crazy when traded.
This guy Langerhans or Langendorf or Dortmunder or whatever the hell he is, is a 21 year old who could well be a great player or out of baseball in three years.
You guys can live in a world of futures and prospects. But I’m thinking of dumping my season tickets because I’m sick of it. Glenn Dickey says that the Giants mortgaged their future by trading Alderson for making a run for it. Well, good for Sabean - in two years, when Alderson is ready, Cain and Lincecum might both have blown arms, and the Giants won’t go anywhere.
The fact, is, by the time Loogenbooger is ready, Suzuki will be a free agent and who knows where Anderson, Gio, Cahill, Braden etc. will be.
The A’s didn’t get enough to compensate for more crappy games this year with Pennington swinging and missing on a regular basis, or two months of Bobby Crosby. I go to A’s games to be entertained, not to sit around looking at a crystal ball.
We are in last place, no compensation for O cab due to his contract
Why would we keep him – build for the future since this year is blown
No it's not blown...
it STILL blows.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Quite frankly...
to me, compensation is winning baseball games in the present tense, not in the future that might possibly never materialize.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Sacrifice wins now...
For more wins later.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
Maybe, hopefully...
no guarantee, by any stretch of the imagination.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Still better than keeping Cabrera and getting nothing for him in the offseason if he goes somewhere else...
…since they can’t even offer him arbitration and get picks.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Winning in the present tense
is not exactly this team’s long suit, Keystone State, so in that sense this is a “sleeves off our vest” move. Unless you feel that any marginal improvement in current-season wins — say, from 72 to 75 — is more valuable than any improvement down the road — say, from 2nd to division title in 2011.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
As someone who roots for the team now...
The answer is yes…a marginal improvement in wins, or at least in the chance of wins, is more valuable than a crapshoot four years down the road.
If the team always lives for the mediocre to sucky now
it’ll never build to a good future.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
One 21 year old prospect
in class A? Yeah, right.
Not to make any predictions about the Dorfer
who may flame out completely, but this is exactly my point about the Braves fan circa 1987.
“Smoltz? Whatever. He’s in A-ball.”
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Trading Haren and Blanton and Harden
…was building toward a good future. This one…not worth it.
O-Cab is not as good as those 3 guys.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I agree Nick
I’m so happy the A’s finally got rid of OC and we got a pretty darned good prospect in return.
My verdict: Billy Beane wins for the not too distant future… and so do the Twins for this year. Everybody wins my friends!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Winning today...
makes me feel good today and tomorrow. I can’t identify with 2011 or 2012, I might step into the street and get run over by a bus, then 2011 and 2012 won’t exist for me.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Right now, when winning a few extra games doesn't really help the team...
…it’s sensible to trade someone who has no real future here and get someone else who may be able to help you down the line.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Sabean would mortgaged the future by trading Posey and Bumgardner
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jul 31, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
So what's the benefit to keeping Cabrera?
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I have around ten games left in my package and I watch games at home
Dude is on a role, hitting the crap out of the ball. I’m sick of losing and being bored and not entertained. Also, it gives the young pitchers a better shot at winning games - I mean, wasn’t that the whole point of Holliday, Nomar, Giambi, etc. anyway? To make sure these guys don’t need to pitch shutouts every time out? That hasn’t changed.
And for what? A guy who hasn’t finished growing yet and may never play shortstop above AA? Please.
No offense...
…but the A’s shouldn’t be concerned about whether this makes you less likely to go to a few games this year, in a season that’s going nowhere as it is.
Their job is to make the team better for next year and beyond, now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
This trade doesn't help next year, or the year after that, or even the year after that.
By the time this guy is ready, the A’s will have moved to the new stadium next to the Santa Cruz boardwallk.
And Cabrera won't be here next year, or the year after that, or even the year after that
Yet the A’s still got someone who could either turn into something here or be used in another deal down the line.
That’s enough for me.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
+1
Except he might be, if the A’s re-sign him in the offseason!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
In which case the A's win because they still got a player for him this year
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Also note
If Cabrera’s contract didn’t stipulate that he can’t be offered arbitration in the offseason I guarantee you the A’s either keep him or get something more for him in a trade. They’re the ones who let that be built into the contract.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
But, he may have never signed in Oakland to begin with, then.
by theblackpearl on Jul 31, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
True
Either way, Cabrera goes to a contender and the A’s still get SOMEthing out of it. That’s always better to me than losing a guy for nothing, and if for some reason he signs here again next year instead of staying in Minnesota or going somewhere else, that’s even better.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
No offense
But what you’re saying is nonsense. Your casual dismissal of a real fan’s interest in getting return on his purchase of tickets is smug and annoying.
The A’s should be concerned about their future, of course. But also their present.
The most tedious thing about this site is all the little GM’s forever sitting beside Billy building for the future. And I’m saying that as someone who is okay with the trade.
Being okay with the trade, though, sure as hell doesn’t give me the right to flippantly disregard a season ticket holder justifiably upset that the product he paid money to watch this year—not some future year—just got appreciably less entertaining for him over the past week. And it sure as hell doesn’t give you the right either.
Point is
They can’t make moves worrying about whether or not it’s going to piss off a specific STH. Ultimately the team needs to be good enough to make people want to buy season tickets or at least come see them play, but if they waited to be sure all the fans approved of a potential deal nothing would ever get done.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Not true
They do need to worry about pissing off season ticket holders. And about pissing off their own young players. There is a very real argument to be made against this trade for those reasons.
What they are getting is in no way clearly valuable enough to just dismiss the concerns of ticket holders, many of whom doubtless don’t follow the whole prospects business nearly as much as us,
Quick case in point. My 18 year old daughter is a diehard A’s fan. Has seen games in Oakland, Boston, and L.A. with me this year. Sits behind the plate along with me in my 20 or so games a year in the season ticket package I share. None of this makes any sense to her. Now you can dismiss her by saying she just doesn’t get it—even though her dad patiently explains it all. Or you can realize that year after year she’s being more and more turned away from the team, a team that she now characterizes as one that “trades all its players for someone I’ve never heard of who’s supposed to be good in three years.”
I'll agree to disagree
It’s impossible to please everyone. When the team is good it’s easier to stomach certain moves, while when it’s bad it’s easier to stomach others. Where I’m coming from is yeah, Cabrera was a nice player, but the A’s would get absolutely nothing for him at the end of the year if he went somewhere else. Why NOT at least get a player or two now since the team isn’t going to contend for anything this year? How much of a difference is he going to make vs. whoever his replacement is? A few wins? Big deal!
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Do you and the +1 dude below just refuse to listen
I’m okay with the trade. I view the A’s and the future pretty much the was you do.
My point is that there are a whole lot of people—fans that I’d bet outnumber us—who disagree.
And that matters.
What I'd tell them is they need to check their perspective a bit
But that’s up to them.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
All I did was agree with Flashfire.
No shots at anyone else. I understand other people’s opinions, but I don’t share them.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jul 31, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
At this point, the A;s best option is too play good fundamental baseball, win a few
games, but not enough to fall out ot the top 10 draft position.
by theblackpearl on Jul 31, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Possible futures
You know, I guess if you’re 12 years old, a possible future is always better than what exists in the present. But as you grow up and get older, you start to learn that living in the present is what counts. This doesn’t mean that you blow your savings on a Mercedes or a trip to the most expensive hotel in Dubai on a lark. But it does mean that you triage your future a little bit to be happier today.
I root for the A’s. Trading everyone who can hit makes the present very grim, and really, this guy is too far away to get excited about. Yeah, maybe five years from now, he’ll be a superstar. But I suspect our shortstop will be Green and our third baseman someone else.
Let’s see how Gio and Trevor and Brett and Dallas respond to two months of nobody getting on base.
I've been a dedicated A's fan since 1980, I remember the tail end of the 70s WS teams, and I attended Game 3 of the ALCS in 1975
I’m not 12.
Trading everyone who can hit makes the present very grim
I’m reminded of the discussion of the new Smell the Glove album cover in Spinal Tap.
“It’s like, how much more black could it get? And the answer is, none. None more black.”
This is a pretty bleak season already, richwol1. The marginal difference in bleakness between the next 2 months of O-Cab and the next 2 months of, say, Pennington will be pretty slight.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I am looking forward to
having hitters who make contact and put the ball in play.
You are right, This season is already bleak so we need to increase our chances for the future. I am however looking to see them improve with players not named Jack Cust by 2011.
Hopefully Carter will be up by then. Sure, he will strike out a lot but hopefully not at a 45 percent rate like Cust is since the AS break.
My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010
wasn't he on a less K-prone pace before the ASG?
Relatively, at least
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jul 31, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
He was
But he has stepped up his level of sucking of late. Seem to remember quite a few fastballs down the middle blowing him away as well.
He’s at 43 percent now since AS break. His two groundouts or whatever they were lowered his K rate.
My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010
Actually the less strikeout prone, pre All Star break Jack Cust sucked more than the current post All Star break Jack Cust
To use the crudest of measures:
Pre All Star: .732 OPS
Post All Star: .808 OPS
He’s having his best month in July. But whatever, keep making shit up.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 31, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
If Cust is still on this team in 2011
that will test this nearly 30 year A’s fan loyalty like never before.
haha that made me laugh
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
"It takes a special kind of anti-mojo for a team to miss the playoffs 14 out of 15 seasons. Like, say, the Warriors under Chris Cohan."
OCab was on a tear, whose to say he stays hot?
Maybe he regresses and goes back to the first two months of the season. Would you be happy he stuck around to make it more interesting with a couple months of 1 for 4 and 0 for 4 performances?
That’s pretty likely considering the circumstances.
Obviously 09 is a wash. Let the younger guys get playing time and pickup a promising prospect in the process.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jul 31, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
richwol1 the Braves fan in 1987
What? But Doyle Alexander is a good pitcher! And who the hell is this Smoltz or Voltz or Schnotlz guy anyway?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Um....
Doyle Alexander was a Jarrod Washburn type. He wasn’t that good. So no, the comparison isn’t apt.
And O-Cab is A-Rod all of a sudden?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Rajai Davis is tearing it up right now
It doesn’t mean (a) that he’s a great player, or (b) that he’s going to keep hitting .400 or whatever for the rest of the season.
O-Cab’s hot-streak has balanced out his (self-admitted) atrocious hitting in the first half of the season. He’s reverted to the mean. So from here on out, he’s likely to get on base at about a .340 clip. Very likely better than Pennington will do, of course. But he’s not going to stay this hot for the next two months, and you would have been watching him make a lot of outs if he’d stayed with the team.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
This is tiresome
Because you’re one of the guys who will ALWAYS trade the present for the future. There are a lot of fans like that. Because the future is unknown and therefore better than the present. As you say, Cabrera will likely get on base for the rest of the year at a .340 clip. That suits me fine. Pennington is no whiz as a fielder and can’t hit. I figure Crosby will play the last six weeks at shortstop, and won’t that be a thrill?
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the A's stood to get absolutely nothing for Cabrera at the end of the year
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I think you hit the nail on the head there
Nothing at the end of the year
My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010
??
Because you’re one of the guys who will ALWAYS trade the present for the future.
And you know this how, exactly, richwol1? If I’ve said that, please quote me. If not, try to stick to what I’ve actually said, not the strawman you’re constructing.
If the present is sucky to mediocre, then, yes, I’m perfectly open to making a trade that marginally weakens the team for the next mediocre/sucky two months to improve our prospects down the line.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Exactly
All this armchair GM-ing for the future has just become tedious. Like the team.
Yeah, because it's much better to keep someone the A's would get nothing for at the end of the year...
…just because he’s more fun to watch play.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Yes,
For many fans that is true. Not for me and you. But for many, many others. Why is that so hard for you to understand.
Not a whole lot of people have been paying money to watch this team, RLangford
and it’s not as if O-Cab is a beloved figure to A’s fans.
Look, as I’ve already said, I really appreciate the job Cabrera did for the A’s this season, the dedication and professionalism and enthusiasm. And the holding himself publicly accountable for sucking.
But he’s not a great player by any stretch of the imagination. He’s an aging, pretty good player who’s been on a hot streak lately. I’m just saying, don’t assume he would have been great for the next 2 months, don’t assume Pennington won’t be worth watching, don’t assume Ladendorf is going to flame out.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
That, too
Cabrera was a one-year rental or less. He didn’t do much at all anyway until July.
No big loss as far as I’m concerned. Thanks for playing well enough to be wanted by a contender, at least.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
It's not hard for me to understand at all
I just think it’s a silly thing for someone to get upset about, especially when the team isn’t very fun to watch as a whole.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
As said season ticket holder...
I’m having a cranky morning.
The Cabrera trade reminds me a bit of last years Blanton trade. It feels like being kicked when you’re already down.
I understand the argument for dumping Cabrera, and maybe if the team had some hitting…SOME hitting…I wouldn’t care at all. But there does come a time when you have to ask if waiting around for a maybe someday wanna be who probably won’t get to the majors is worth more tedious games this year (and that’s win or lose, by the way).
...also...
Alexander’s loss didn’t hurt the Braves much. He only played every fifth day. I have no idea who the Braves had to replace him, but chances are good he didn’t cost them many games.
Ummm....
If you’re saying that a pitchers loss doesn’t hurt a team because he only plays once every 5th day….
I’m not sure what to tell you.
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
Er, no
You can’t discount the importance of a pitcher vs. a position player just because he goes once every five days, especially when the pitcher is above average. Someone like that is much more valuable than a mediocre position player, no question.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Hilarious
Just hilarious. Your funniest ever.
Knight Rider was great, too
but this one is a keeper.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
why bother keeping o-cab? seriously dude, we get NOTHING out of keeping him around, now we have depth at a spot sorely needed. You pretty much could have summed up your post in 1 sentence:
“Im tired of trading all these guys that we going to have for 6 months and lose them for nothing, Id rather win 77 games instead of 74”
I already miss
O-Cab & Matt Holliday’s sweet, line-drive singles to right field. What a sight. Reminds me of the first 3-4 months of the ’09 season.
Get Them B4 They Get You!
Yeah, remember all the BEEF, BRAWN, TNT, and DYNAMITE?
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jul 31, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah....
Beef is gone, brawn is washed up, TNT is crippled and dynamite is in a slump and can’t field his position. One of the most laughable ad campaigns in memory.
by coffee roaster on Jul 31, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Even the Ad Department of the A's failed when they placed hope in Chavez's health
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jul 31, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
That commercial is long gone and gone forever.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
the A's ad folks aren't worthy to kiss the cuffs of the Jack in the Box agency!
everyone knew that this year Mini was where it’s at
I care about your fantasy team.
Holliday was supposed to hit sweet HRs
which he didn’t do a lot of. And Cabrera only started proving his worth in the last month. Had both of them been hot since the season started, we might not be sellers now
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jul 31, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very good deal
Ladendorf looks to be a 4.5 tool player (great speed, very good defense/bat, a little short in the power department) at a position of need (SS). A very nice pickup for Cabrera, who we could just as easily re-sign in the off-season if there aren’t any better options available at the right price. And it allows Pennington to audition for two months. Much better to get something in trade and start planning for 2010.
I'm not sure what to really think about this trade
Ladendorf doesn’t exactly wow me, but reading up on him, he doesn’t look awful either. Does anyone know what his Sickels rank is + where he’d fit on the A’s Top… say 30 prospects?
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
Sickels included him in his 'others' section.
Here’s the link. He’s probably around a C prospect in what Sickels calls “Overall, … a good farm system…”
Also; THE WORLD IS GONNA ASPLODE
USA Today’s Bob Nightengale via Twitter: the Red Sox are about to acquire first baseman/catcher Victor Martinez from the Indians. Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse, trying to confirm, says it “looks good.”
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
Alrighty then
This is one of those whatever kind of trades. The A’s get a young guy who down the line might be good for a veteran player who was going to be a free agent. My only problem with the trade is a short term one in that the A’s lose another one of their professional hitters and now have only a couple left on the team.
Beane’s idea of surrounding the young pitching with veteran hitters is now officially over and this team is really going to struggle to score. The rest of the season is going to be painful to watch let’s just hope it’s worth it and this all adds up to a winning team soon.
Anderson, and Cahill, have been in the rotation, all year, it is at the point, where they aren't really
rookies anymore, and the training wheels need to come off. Plus, the A’s weren’t scoring many runs, with those supposed “professional” hitters, anyways
by theblackpearl on Jul 31, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I still think they're rookies
but really we’re not in disagrement I’m just saying the bad offense is going to get worse but if this helps the team to build towards something good then I’m fine with it.
I can only assume...
that this deal will immediately be followed up by releasing Nomar, BoCro and Springer, since winning games this year is no longer a consideration and they are not in the A’s future. While we are at it, Geren should be fired, because he SHOULD NOT be a part of the A’s future.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Agree on Reverse Ramon
and Crosby and Springer why not give these spots to someone younger. Whoever they bring up couldn’t be worse. On Geren at this point I’d let him ride the season out and then fire him in the off-season. Why have the new manager come into this mess, let Bobo get all the losses the A’s are going to earn the next couple of months and then start fresh next season.
NO....
You can’t release Crosby. If Pennington fails, the A’s are fucked if Crosby is released.
Dude...
they’re fucked anyway you slice it. Get someone out of the stands to play SS rather than Crosby.
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm more interested in watching Moneypenny than Croz
if only for novelty’s sake.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Novelty's Sake
Finally we agree on something here.
And hey, he might turn into a guy who's worth watching
I’m just encouraging you not to assume that O-Cab was going to play over his head for the next 2 months, or that Pennington is going to suck and be boring.
I doubt that Pennington will be worse than O-Cab was for the first couple months of the season.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Kennedy/Suzuki now our best hitters
Errrr….our only hitters. At least they aren’t injury prone.
by coffee roaster on Jul 31, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
The A's have this can't miss SS prospect...
named Bobby Crosby down in Triple-A. I’m telling ya, he’s the REAL DEAL. Let’s not sign this over-rated, over-priced SS we have names Tejada, he’s definitely not worth the risk, especially when you have this future MVP named Crosby just tearing it up in Sactown. Man, I can’t wait to see this kid rake!
Get Them B4 They Get You!
So you're officially against acquiring talented minor leaguers?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Excuse me while I slit my wrists.
Vertically. *Goes and cries while in the fetal position. In a corner.
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
This is Peter Gammons
Bobby Crosby will be an MVP. Now go out and buy my album.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jul 31, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, the A's should have re-signed Tejada and kept Crosby in AAA for a couple years
until Chavez’s time was up, and then replaced Chavez with the AAA SS.
And since you could see into the future way back then I’m guessing your stock portfolio is nice and large and you have no financial worries at all. Women adore you and world leaders try to make appointments to seek your advice. You will discover the cure for cancer in May of 2013 but you’re not sure of the exact date ‘cause you’ve been spending time in China rescuing fresh water dolphins in China and you haven’t checked the calendar to find out what date Memorial Day 2013 falls on… ‘cause you’ve got plans for that 3 day weekend that involve a cask of 20 year old Scotch, a hovercraft and a 19 year old nympho that makes Megan Fox look like the ugly step-sister.
Or maybe, just maybe, the A’s didn’t think that Tejada was over-rated but they were in a financial situation where they had to decide between paying big money to young and talented Chavez vs. the older and talented Tejada. Bearing in mind, of course, that they had a hotshot SS prospect in AAA that looked really good to most of the baseball establishment.
Which ever story you think is more plausible.
The monster at the end of this blog.
here are some stats for Ladendorf
from FanGraphs
earlier reports mention that he’s had some labrum health issues but is supposedly healty now.
Any more deals to go down today??
It seems like the Wuertz rumors cooled off pretty quickly, likely because of Beane’s asking price. I’m guessing these two trades (Holliday/Cabrera) are all we will see from Beane.
Waiver deadline might see a duke trade
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
Okay, Nick...
…I don’t mind a Duke trade, even though his return could result in 3-4 more wins…Why? Because Orlando Cabrera as a hitter will play in all the games for the rest of the year. Now Duke is probably more valuable if he’s healthy than Cabrera right now…but he can only help you every fifth day. Cabrera helps all the young pitchers every day.
We aren’t going to agree on this. Maybe the fact that I’m a lot older than you has something to do with this too. I like looking forward to the future, but I also like living in the present.
Do they have the MLB network...
in the next lifetime?
by Keystone State on Jul 31, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I could care less about Duke at this point
Guy’s always injured, SHOULD pitch out of the bullpen for the remainder of his career, but is bent on starting. Sounds like a lot like Steve Karsay if you ask me…
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
by cuppingmaster on Jul 31, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
My name isn't Nick.
Also, you’re saying a pitcher is less valuable than a player who plays everyday? So you’re saying someone like, say, Kurt Suzuki is better than Roy Halladay because Kurt plays every day?
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
No, it isn't...
But I was having a dialogue with Nick (read earlier posts). So I figured this was the appropriate place.
I’m saying that when you’ve got a team that can’t hit for shit, but has good young pitching that needs to get in games, the extra hitter is more valuable than yet another starter. So the higher on-base percentage and higher batting average of a player like Cabrera over Pennington or Crosby gives the young pitchers a better chance to win.
And I’m hearing all this talk about two games or three games…but this is a small sample size. Cabrera could be responsible for winning ten games or twelve. This is a guy who got the A’s started on a seven-game winning streak by calling the team out. He’s a leader, and the team loses that too.
I've already posted my appreciation for O-Cab
so nothing I’m saying here is meant to denigrate him or his performance in any way. At all.
But seriously, 10 games? Do you mean, 10 or 12 games over someone who’d replace him? That would pretty much make O-Cab the second coming of Honus Wagner. Which he’s not.
O-Cab has done a lot to help the A’s win some games lately. On the other hand, as possibly the worst hitter in the AL for the first 3 months of the season (and one of the worst defensive SSs) he did a lot to help the A’s lose games — back before the season was an entirely lost cause. To his enormous credit, he publicly admitted that he “sucked” and then did something about it.
I’d prefer to keep him for the next 2 months AND get Ladendorf. But since that’s not possible, and I have to choose between the two, I’ll pick giving SS to Pennington, saying “thank you” to O-Cab, and taking the SS prospect.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Yeah, but Rickey would.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
“Rickey says that Rickey could win more than 10 games by himself!”
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Being that Rickey speaks in the third person...
…Rickey would help the team win 10 games by himself… 3 times.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
I'm still not sure if you were talking to Nick or to Orodawg,
but if you were addressing Nick, are you really “a lot older than” him? I thought both of you were roughly my age.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
apparently wisdom does not always come with age
The Not-So-Casual Fan
I understand the business reasons for trading Cabrera,
but I really hope we don’t miss the veteran leadership and help he has provided specifically for Gio over his last few starts. I hope Gio has learned from him and carry that forward. I don’t want to see the return of Bad Gio.
He also called that players team meeting awhile ago that lit a fire. I will miss things like that.
Bring Jerry back!
Have Stomper dance around for Gio before each of his starts
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jul 31, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Hi, ZigFan.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I got four hours the night before last and about five hours last night.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Pre-draft report/ranks for Ladendorf
From the Padres Farm Report (5 Jun 08):
Tyler Ladendorf, SS, Howard (Texas) JC
pre-draft rankings:
* Baseball America (sub), 69
* Brewerfan.net, n/a
* PG Crosschecker, 29
* John Sickels, n/a
Ladendorf is a legitimate shortstop who offers a nice power/speed package on offense. There is some concern that his unconventional batting style ("he doesn’t have enough weight on his back side") may cause problems against better competition. He’s also added some bulk this year, and although he’s still viewed as a solid defender, there is talk that he may eventually move to a less demanding position.
I also found this at The Tenth Inining Stretch:
Tyler Ladendorf was one of the top Twins’ middle infield prospect who has been thought as a potential 5-tool player. He is 21 and just promoted to Beloit. With this trade the Twins are actually doing something similar to what the did with the Luis Castillo trade from the Marlins in the 2006 off-season: trading potential with actuality.
"Doesn't have enough weight on his back side"
Well, that’s a novel problem for an A’s prospect these days.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
lol
FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Wasn't that the knock on Jamie Kotsay?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I personally happen to disagree with Jamie Kotsay critics.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I know.
She goes well with those little 19-year-old nymphets that you like.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Blez made his post on the Orlando Cabrera trade in case you guys haven’t seen it yet.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions
Wow, this is a long thread
debating whether it’s worth it to trade away a guy and potentially taking 2-3 wins out of a 70-win season now, vs getting back a guy who may have a 10% chance of making it to the bigs in 3 years? This is exciting stuff isn’t it?
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