How Much Might He Actually Be Wuerth?
by Nico on Jul 28, 2009 9:21 AM PDT
187 comments
All the reasons I'd like to see the A's keep Michael Wuertz -- he's under contract through 2011, he provides true depth in the bullpen, he's a very solid reliever with exceptional strikeout numbers -- is also why teams may be considering offering the A's a lot for a player at a position most associated with the term "fungible."
If Rotoworld is to be believed, not only are the Angels "pushing hard for Wuertz," but now the Braves have expressed interest, suggesting that the price for Wuertz might not be "an offer" but rather "the best offer." The A's, for all their wheeling and dealing, and long list of promising prospects in the minors right now, still have plenty of needs. Grant Green is neither signed nor close to seeing a big league field and it would be a bit loco to suggest the A's don't need a good young SS if they can land one.
In my opinion, CF has also not been fully addressed, in that the ideal CFer has plus speed, covers left-center to right-center like an athletic gerbil on crack, presents a SB threat -- basically more Andrew McCutchen than Ryan Sweeney. I guess I'm saying at least closer to Mike Cameron than Kirk Cameron.
The A's have some potential CFers in the pipeline, but none is considered to be a great bet to make it in the major leagues and the problem with the current applicants is that they either play defense like corner OFers, hit like 4th OFers, or they hit like Eric Patterson and play defense like Eric Patterson.
So back to Wuertz. I hope the A's won't move him just to get a shiny prospect that gives Oakland more minor league depth, but if the opportunity comes along to get "more than you should get for a short reliever" and specifically if the opportutnity is there to use a bidding war to address a clear need, then God bless the trading deadline and teams desperate for an edge.
If the Angels and Braves make a real push for Wuertz, and if maybe another team or two might jump in trying to outbid, what do you think the best offer might be that the A's get for this fungible dude with all the strickouts?
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I'm thinking Sean Rodriquez from the slegnA...
Is that enough to wow you, Nico? I could probably be persuaded either way.
If he can play SS in the bigs he might not be so bad.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Yeah, I'm not a big fan, personally.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Isn’t he already 24 years old?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 28, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
"Already"?
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
For a hot shot prospect, shouldn’t he be younger or already producing at the MLB level at that age?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 28, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
he's only
hit over 25 homers playing 2nd base in the minors
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jul 30, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
o yeah
i loved the guy when he wa on the cedar rapids kernels
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jul 30, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Better than what we've got there
I’d give him a chance at short.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
I'd be reluctant to deal Wuertz...
I’d really need to be presented with a great offer.
My targets from the Slegna and the Braves would be Brandon Wood and Jordan Schafer respectively. Both plug holes and present considerable upgrades from current and future options.
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
The thing is, everyone said the same thing about Kiko, when he was going well. Relievers
by nature, especially, non power armed closers, are inconsistent, so if you aren’t contending, you want to get as much as you can as soon as possible.
by theblackpearl on Jul 28, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I do think Wuertz is better than Calero, though
Wuertz’ slider has “splitter” action — he can throw it in the dirt 6 inches in front of the plate and get swinging strikes. But like every slider specialist, he’s prone to hanging them at times and sure, he could go through a stretch of “too many hangers” … which I think is what happened with the Cubs when they lost faith in him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Who did we trade for Wuertz again?
Was it Robnett? If it was, that’s one of Beane’s best under-the-radar trades.
Robnett and Sellers
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
robnett
sucks and yes im a cubs fan but i like the As too
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jul 30, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
There is that.
I agree that relievers… for whatever reason… seem to have a shorter or more inconsistent shelf-life compared to other players.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
Small sample size
They don’t have the opportunity to rebound like starters do. If a starter gives up three runs in their first inning they have a chance to keep pitching and water down the effect.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
If I understand that correctly...
…it implies that stats are thus imperfect… to which I would agree… and to which I wasn’t referring. Managers and coaches… and even objective fans… should be able to reasonably assess if a reliever is doing well regardless of some jacked-up ERA due to a couple unfortunate HRs and few innings.
If I didn’t understand you correctly, then never mind.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
Yes stats are imperfect
especially when dealing with relievers which I think that it a large part of understanding reliever performance is perception.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think you can get either of those guys for Wuertz alone
I would be willing to throw in a Sweeney/Buck/prospect for either. A deal of Wuertz + Sweeney for Wood would be awsome!
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
I don't think we could get Schafer for Wuertz
He’s a very good prospect.
Keep him unless we get a deal that blows Billy away...period
Our Bullpen sucks! + He is under control for 2 more arb years, which is appealing for all the teams interested in him, but the point being again…our bullpen sucks. Beane is in the driver’s seat in this one, sit back and we can hopefully enjoy the ride.
Off Topic, but...
what’s going on with The Duke? Is he closer to returning? If so, then that would be a good reason to send down Cahill, no?
"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." -Jessica Rabbit
by A'sfansince1970 on Jul 28, 2009 9:49 AM PDT reply actions
He pitched two perfect innings on Monday in A ball
First step in the long road back.
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
Thanks!
I’m rooting for him! When will he pitch for Rivercats, do you know?
"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." -Jessica Rabbit
by A'sfansince1970 on Jul 28, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Friday 60 pitches
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/28/SPVN18VRD1.DTL
Oh, but if I catch a line drive by a girl, that’s girl-on-girl action, the twiceness is eliminated, and it just counts once - gigglingone
by closetasfan on Jul 28, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Wuertz for Wood or Schafer?
Would you trade Aaron Cunningham for a middle reliever who was sent down to AAA at one point last year?
Schafer could present a buy-low opportunity for Beane....
Look, he is still a very good prospect and anyone in the Braves org. would be foolish to think otherwise. However, in some ways, the circumstances surrounding his situation may not be all that different than those of Gallagher- which may dock him down enough, in the eyes of braves management, to trade him if they get a player who can help them win this year.
Here are some of the potential negatives building up against Schafer:
1) he received a 50 gm suspension over a year ago for PED use- which I am sure chafed some people in the front office.
2) He is currently injured- and has not played since july third
3) When he has played- he has been particularly underwhelming with the bat.
Couple those things with the fact that they have another potential CF-in-waiting (Gorkys Hernandez) who is in Double AA and a threat to steal 40+ bases, and maybe those factors are enough to convince the Braves that Schafer isn’t the can’t miss prospect that they- and all of baseball- initially thought he was.
These factors would not necessarily do it for me- in terms of convincing myself to trade him- but then again we’ve seen how seemingly small transgressions can put young promising players in the doghouse- i.e. Buck, Gallagher- so who knows….
Umm...
A) Gorkys Hernandez sucks
B) Atlanta traded him to Pittsburgh about two months ago
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 28, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My bad....
I missed that trade… and they mention nothing about it on his MILB page- only noting that he was acquired by the braves in the Renteria deal…
I am hoping
That if we trade Wuertz, that we can refresh and restock another minor league starting rotation to develop.
Brewers have also expressed interest in Wuertz
Basically, any team looking for bullpen help has approached the A’s about Wuertz… he’s having an incredible season.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Maybe for Alcides Escobar?
He’s down a bit at the moment in AAA, but could be a solid defender with a .275 bat + .350 OBP.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
and.
i only say that because they’ve got several MLB guys that fill their SS position: Hardy, Counsell, Lopez.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Counsell is 58 years old
Lopez is playing 2nd for the rest of the season. Were you going to give Escobar back after the season?
The Brewers balked at giving up Escobar for Halladay
So I have trouble seeing Wuertz being the guy to pry the SS loose.
The monster at the end of this blog.
This would qualify as an offer that would blow Billy away.
Then again, it’s also an offer that would get Doug Melvin fired.
+1
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Tonight?
If the A’s are still “dealing for 2011” then I say trade Wuertz.
It seems like the middle relievers have up and down years and it’s better to trade him when he’s up than sit through him going down.
I think that the A’s need bats or this team will never get going. If we can get a sweet deal – due to all the massive attention from contenders – lets do it.
Middle relievers will be essential but i think we could possibly pop Gio or pick up some other cast off soul during the off season.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
A Wuertz deal could also help us as soon as 2010
depending on the return. Wood or Sean Rodriguez would immediately fill in at short (assuming O-Cab is traded) and a guy like Jordan Schafer would probably get the call in center immediately. Although these returns seem unlikely, Beane has worked his magic like this before. The initial offer by LAA was said to be S-Rod plus others-as the suitors grow in numbers, the slegnA will up their offer, maybe to the point of Brandon Wood
A left side of the infield of Wallace/Wood might not look great defensively, but that has the potential to be the best offensive left side of the infield in the league, 2010+.
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
Plus
Devine will be ready (hopefully) by next year, so he could fill Wuertz’s role heading into next season.
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
Counting on Devine is a mistake.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Unfortunately.
Sigh.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 28, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Meh, now that I think about it.
Brandon Wood isn’t really that great of a prospect. His numbers are inflated from playing in very hitter friendly stadiums and his defense is pretty meh. In the majors, he has struck out 64 times while walking only 6 times, which rings alarm bells even though it is SSS. I don’t know about S-Rod anymore. I’ve heard conflicting reports on his defense at second.
At this point, Brandon Wood has a far better chance of becoming Dallas McPherson than duplicating his minor league numbers in the majors.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 28, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd go for Alcides Escobar.
Even if he’s not an elite hitting SS, I think he’ll be an elite defender. With Wallace, Weeks, Carter, Cardenas, and Brown in the lineup, a plus hitting SS won’t be necessary.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
I'd say there's probably zero chance that happens.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Send Braden, too.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Just throwing things out there.
What the most you would trade to the Brewers to get Escobar?
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Matt Holliday
oh wait.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Weurtz for Hardy might actually be interesting.
But count me as a guy who doesn’t particularly think that relievers have much trade value — especially considering the guy was acquired for Justin Sellers and Ritchie Robnett.
If I were to say we could deal Sellers and Robnett for JJ Hardy, I’m pretty sure everybody here would say yes.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Nothing in particular
Aside from how little his perceived value was during the offseason compared to how high the perceived value for JJ Hardy has been around AN.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
The point is that his value is greater now than it was then
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Exactly.
It would be pretty insane (in a good way) to take a guy who was acquired for spare parts, then flip him after half a season for a pretty damn good shortstop.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Welcome to relief pitching 101.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
robnett sux
im a cubs fan
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jul 30, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Would Hardy be the stop-gap between now and Green?
Or do you think the A’s could sign him for 3-4 years?
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Im there on that for sure
I think that would be a great trade if we are trying to contend next year. What do you think would need to accompany Wuertz? Simmons perhaps?
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Trading in hopes of contending next year wouldn't be smart in my opinion.
The rotation will still be very young. I fail to see how the hitting would be much better unless Buck, Sweeney, Suzuki, and others improve greatly. They can’t take away their best hitter (Holliday) replace it with nothing and have a contending offense.
You can’t count on Cunningham, Wallace, and Carter to carry a team when they’re all rookies. Not gonna happen.
That’s why i don’t think they’d take Hardy. He’ll be gone before the kids get past their growing pains.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
I think its not unrealistic at all
The rotation next year will have gone through rookie growing pains. We will be better at 1b, CF, RF, SS (if we get Hardy), and hopefully 3b, the same at 2b and DH, and worse in left field. If we get a good LFer this is a very good team next year, with only starting rookies at 3b and RF. Plus we can always flip Hardy at the deadline next year if needed. I would be very interested in Simmons and Wuertz for Hardy.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd do it, especially if ownership was prepared
to take its best shot at a “build around him” real-$$ contract extension. Hardy is not only a very good RH hitter and a SS, but as he ages he should be able to move over to 3B where the A’s may well have a need (if Wallace moves to 1B and/or Cardenas can handle 2B). Is Hardy worth “real SS” from a small-market team? Likely.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think it would probably require more...
How much more is the question.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
We need to start the “bring JJ to OAK” fanclub, I dont know anyone who would against it.
Escobar has that silly “untouchable” tag on him too, giving them O-Cab would be stellar.
Please include the Hardy part of JJ to Oak
I want no part of JJ Putz.
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
The Brewers are not going to give up Escobar
They have been reluctant to give him up in a potential Halladay trade…I doubt they’d give him up for Wuertz. We would have to add something else of great value in the deal.
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
Send them someone else, too.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
IF you trade Wuertz:
It had better NOT be for Prospects:
He’d have to be dealt to a team with a log jam at either CF or SS. Just as the Cards were jammed at 3B.
he is a ML arm, who has been horribly used by Geren, and has a REAL out pitch that can turn an inning around. That is what teams competing for the playoffs need more than anything. Not a VERY GOOD young 4th OF, or back-up middle infielder.
He will be pretty cheap for two and a half years and can do anything form close an inning out, start an innning, set-up or close.
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Jul 28, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions
Wallace is a prospect...
hasn’t done shit in the majors. yet.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
The Cards weren't jammed at 3b
They actually have pretty big organizational hole there as well.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I forget who he was burried behind:
But he was thier second rated 3B prospect, and then also behind Mark DeRosa, so, third on the depth chart for a player who is ready to break through. I should have chosen my words better and said No A Baller or 19 year old.
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Jul 28, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
DeRosa is gone after this year
So is Glaus and they have a bunch of psuedo prospects that are too old and not really any good. They aren’t in Wallace’s way.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
My guess is that the Cards figure he won't play 3rd (at least not well or for very long)
they can’t DH him and there’s no room for him at 1B.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Bingo
Also they need to appease Pujols since he is a free agent soon and it would be devastating for the organization to lose him. That in itself might be why they would be willing to give up Wallace.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem is, if they're right about his defense
then he’s not nearly as valuable to us, either, given all the similar, potential talent the A’s have at 1B. If the A’s are right about him (assuming Beane et al plan for him to play 3B), then the Cardinals just gave up the solution to one of their major problems.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Right which is why I wasn't a big fan of this trade like everyone else was
I think it was good value but its not a slam dunk like it has been portrayed by any means.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree
He is infinitely more valuable to us, (who are starved for a power bat at any position) then he was to the Cards, (who have an abundance of power).
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
ML Talent Lost in the Shuffle:
Exactly what I’d want for Weurtz.
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Jul 28, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Cards aren't jammed at 3B.
They’re jammed at 1B. The idea that Wallace was blocked comes out of the assumption that he won’t stick at 3B. If that’s the case then yes, he was blocked in St Louis.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
freese, thurston, barden, tyler greene can play there, troy glaus, who will be delt at the deadline or in the offseason
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jul 30, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Correction:
I should have chosen my words better and said No A Baller or 19 year old.
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Jul 28, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know... I'd take Aaron Hicks from the Twins
Yeah, that’s me being an ass.
The monster at the end of this blog.
grover, you do it so well ;-)... and I do like your choice in Hicks
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
three way
O-cab to Twins, Wuertz to Angels, Wood to A’s. The Twins kick in the prospects to balance the deal between A’s and Angels
i don't think we want Wood
based on other comments, he’s got inflated stats thanks to the Salt Lake ballpark.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Maybe, but I would risk it
The scouts for a few years now thought/think he is the real-deal. Any time you trade for unproven ML players your gambling. Why not take a chance on a league average up-the-middle glove with power. There are very few of those to be had.
Let's see Billy get creative
Tampa needs to clear payroll to acquire VMart and Cliff Lee and are potentially willing to deal Carl Crawford. How’s that for a franchise CF?
Pretty much sucks
Crawford hates playing CF, plus he’s a FA after 2010.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Party pooper.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Its not like we have great LF options next year
An outfield of Crawford Hairston and Cunningham/Buck/Sweeney could be one of the top 5 defensive outfields in the game.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Crawford would be gone before the A's are good again.
Plus, it would be one of the weakest hitting OFs.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
How is that?
Crawford is an excellent hitter, Hairston is good, and it’s very conceivable that one of Buck/Sweeney/Cunningham would be average or better offensively next season. It’s also very possible that the A’s would be a strong squad next year, depending on how the pitching staff progresses.
If you want to deal Wuertz to TB
I want Reid Brignac back.
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
especially sweeney
im from solon iowa and ryan played high school ball near there
Nutdrinkingamp12
Live Long and Prosper
by nutdrinkingamp12 on Jul 30, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
You can trade Wuertz because you're dealing from a position of strength.
Our bullpen looks weak right now because it has guys like Casilla and Springer in it right now. The guys doing the relieving for Sacramento have done a damn good job this year.
Jeff Gray: 13 SV, 38 IP, .89 WHIP, 1.91 GO/AO, 1.66 ERA
Sam Demel (between AA and AAA): 1.21 ERA, 44.2 IP, 1 HR, 12 SV
Brad Kilby: 2.60 ERA, 45 IP, 27 H, 13 BB, 49 K
Jay Marshall: 2.89 ERA, 2.52 GO/AO (Against lefties, he’s given up 13 hits and 1 walk in 23.1 IP)
You also have guys like Henry Rodriguez, who has been up and down, and Devine coming back from injury. Funny that the A’s got Breslow off waivers from the Twins, and now they want Wuertz. Wuertz isn’t that much better. If Beane could build a package and of Wuertz and Cabrera and then another player or two in order to get a top prospect, I’d do it.
Ben Revere anybody?
I would be really shocked if the Twins traded one of their top prospects.
They’re notoriously stingy with the prospects… rightfully so.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Well if they get desperate (they're only 3 GB)
And they want to improve their bullpen and their middle infield with only one move, and maybe even LF if we sent Buck or Sweeney, then they’re going to have to give up some prospects. If not their prospects, then one of their SP, which isn’t going to happen.
The Twins rarely get desperate to make midseason moves.
I live in North Dakota among hoards of Twins fans. They complain every year that the organization never trades for that missing piece at the deadline then always end up just missing the playoffs.
I think they’re also reluctant to trade because of their recent history. The Delmon Young trade was a huge bust and no one they received for Santana is panning out.
The Twins will not give up their top prospects. They just won’t.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
I'd take Carlos Gomez for OrCa!
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Yeah... but would you take him for Johan Santana?
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Oh and Carlos Gomez sucks.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
So does Cabrera.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Gomez isn't that bad.
His offense is pretty bad, but his defense is stellar. Last year he was worth 2 WAR because of his D. It’s down this year, though.
Ben Revere is pretty meh for me
I don’t trust his average to hold up or his walks to increase as he moves up. I would be very interested in Hicks, however. The rest of the Twins system is pretty meh for me. I don’t think that we get Revere or Hicks to be honest.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Sickels said he's got a ceiling of Kenny Lofton
He’s not going to provide much power beyond doubles, but he’s fast as hell and he plays CF. Hicks has a better ceiling and more power potential, but he’s riskier. And actually, I don’t see the Twins trading Hicks. I wouldn’t mind Revere, but I agree there are other players on other teams that are more desirable.
ridin’ ‘cross the land…kickin’ up sand…
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
What about something like this:
Weurtz to MIL for JJ Hardy
Cabrera to MIN for one of their relief arms (Jesse Crain?) and a prospect?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
You're not going to get Hardy for Wuertz
For one thing, it would make the Brewers worse now. Hardy may be have a down year with the bat but he’s still a very potent hitter who plays a good SS.
Maybe Hardy for Wuertz and Duchscherer? Macha loves Duke and we know Brewers’ scouts were at the game the other day. I would think Duke would be a carrot if the goal were to acquire Hardy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think Wuertz Duchsherer and Simmons
could be enough and if it isn’t adding Eveland might. Thats a perceptive addition. I would do both of those trades.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Eveland? Is he more than a body to the Brewers at this point? They did trade him to Arizona and he's not ripping up AAA.
Baseball isn't magic.
Insurance against Duke not being able to pitch.
Equivalent of a C/C+ prospect.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes it does
mostly because the problem is they have the worst 5th starter production out of all contending teams in baseball. Getting there is more important than what you do while you are there.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
What about Wuertz, Duke, and Cabrera, for Hardy,
giving the Brewers an immediate SS replacement while A. Escobar is green? That might be a good deal for them. I’d actually worry that it could be a so-so deal for Oakland, if they can’t keep Hardy beyond 2010. But they can always re-sign Duke in the off-season!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
ugh
Duke is going to pitch how many innings this year? And Cabrera has absolutely no value. So a good reliever, a long shot starter who may do nothing and a decent SS for Hardy. And you’re worried about giving up too much…
How is that a bad deal for the A's?
Your expectations for Cabrera have always been too high IMO. That deal is better for the A’s than the deal I proposed. Simmons as an ok starting pitching prospect has more value to us long term than Cabrera does. I would be happy if we got Simmons as the return for Cabrera.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not?
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Hm.
Cabrera and Weurtz?
Screw Minnesota.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
The Brewers should be looking for rotation help, which the A's can't really give.
Baseball isn't magic.
How about O-Cab & Wuertz + Duke/grade C prospect for Hardy
I would make that trade. We might need to send some cash to make it happen.
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
question
any idea why Ziegler isn’t mentioned in any trade talks? Seems he’s having a pretty good season, with an excellent July.
Not that I want Ziggy traded by any stretch of imagination
Oh, but if I catch a line drive by a girl, that’s girl-on-girl action, the twiceness is eliminated, and it just counts once - gigglingone
Russ Springer should be talked about more. He had a terrible May, but he’s been good otherwise.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 28, 2009 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
O/T Everidge is batting 7th. Hairston not in lineup.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/athletics/detail?&entry_id=44415
My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010
Scott Hairston’s quad tightness apparently is the reason he’s on the bench, but we haven’t spoken with Bob Geren yet.
I thought for a moment that he might’ve been traded.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 28, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
You know you're an A's fan....
if someone is out of the lineup and you wonder if he has been traded.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
If Landon Powell starts instead of Kurt Suzuki, this could be our worst lineup on paper all year. The last time we said that, though, we scored six runs and Gio Gonzalez pitched a great game.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 28, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Suzuki is hitting 5th
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jul 28, 2009 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Jack Cust is in the field. This could be an adventure.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 28, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
SSS
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
Powell can flat out rake
It’s not that ridiculous to believe that he could outhit Suzuki (a damn good hitter in his own right) if given the opportunity. Unfortunately we’ll probably never know, because he’s physically incapable of being a starting catcher.
I never even heard of this guy until a few weeks ago...
…and now out of seemingly nowhere many people are chanting his name like he’s the Savior of all things Baseball Oakland.
Is he truly legit and under the radar, or are we subconsciously desperate for anyone and anything to hang our hat on?
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
He is not legit as a savior of all blah blah blah
But Everidge is a guy who has shown the ability to play 3B without spiking himself or harming small children and has a track record for pounding the snot out of LHP in the minors.
Peak year + raking in AAA means the guy deserves a shot, especially when the 1B alternative is Bobby F’n Crosby.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Kind of OT
but saw this just yesterday that Wuertz has the nastiest (causes MLBers to swing and miss) pitch in that filthy slider of his.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/9/944134/the-toughest-pitches-to-hit-in
His value is at an all time high…i say Beane offload him since we have a pretty stocked bullpen once Devine comes back and Ziegler gets back to being himself…
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 28, 2009 2:23 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
No, really, stop assuming Devine will ever be healthy and contribute again.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Shouldn’t you change your signature, sir?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 28, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he's still awesome. Just made of glass.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Back to being himself?
His ERA is a little over 2 since June 1 with a whip a little over one. He had a bad May, big deal. He has been excellent for almost 2 months….I think he is back to being himself.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jul 28, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
The caveat to this diagram, of course
is that it just shows the pitches most likely to get a swing through – it says nothing of what actually happens when a batter does make contact with it…
Breakdowns for you...
From Fangraphs….
Season Team K/9 BB/9 K/BB HR/9 AVG WHIP BABIP LOB% FIP
2009 Athletics 11.79 2.47 4.77 0.95 .217 1.06 .309 74.4 % 2.6
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 28, 2009 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
O/T
The Red Sox are looking for a fourth outfielder.
A fourth outfielder, preferably a right-handed hitting one with above-average defensive skills, is also on the team’s wish list.
Granted they said a right handed one, and granted it’s the Boston Herald, but can we offer them Ryan Sweeney? Or even Rajai?
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
They just dealt Kotsay for Brian Anderson.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Well, shit.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
Not so sure that fills their need
Anderson isn’t even really an upgrade over Kotsay. It’s possible that they’d want Rajai still, especially after tonight.
Anderson isn’t even really an upgrade over Kotsay.
At least Anderson’s back isn’t damaged like Kotsay’s.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 29, 2009 2:16 AM PDT up reply actions
TY for introducing the word
fungible into my vocabulary.
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
The athletics ones on crack are especially fun.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Revere/Slama/Valencia
for O-Cab/Wuertz?
Should we target Guerra instead?
If we got Revere
Twins fans everywhere would commit suicide. I, however, would fly to Oakland and give Billy the biggest high five on the planet.
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again." - Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
"But at this time of year, two plus two doesn't always add up to eight. Sometimes, it equals four." - Geoff Baker, Mariners beat writer.
That deal would never happen
and Guerra forgot how to pitch.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
No but 1 start isn't a big enough sample size for me to care.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
This.
So back to Wuertz. I hope the A’s won’t move him just to get a shiny prospect that gives Oakland more minor league depth, but if the opportunity comes along to get “more than you should get for a short reliever” and specifically if the opportutnity is there to use a bidding war to address a clear need, then God bless the trading deadline and teams desperate for an edge.
If 2011 is still the magical year that it’s all going to fall together, then to me that implies some progress in getting there will happen in 2010, and we’d need and use him in 2010 and 2011. Yeah, I know, sometimes teams just spring up out of nowhere (ala Rays last year), but seriously that’s the exception, not the rule. I swear way too many fans gets all starry-eyed when the idea of a bright shiny prospect gets dangled in front of them and they forget everything else.
Yeah, there are times when it’s a wise move, and there are times when another team’s needs make them overpay, and we should hold out for one of those when it comes to Wuertz. Otherwise, we should keep him and use him and not feel like we missed something.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
If the Twins want Cabrera and Wuertz,
as Rotoworld now says, maybe a package that lands Hicks isn’t out of the question?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Probably is
Even if the A’s picked up all the remaining salary, it seems highly doubtful that the Twins would move Hicks. Remember, Hicks was also considered a 1st round talent as a SP so if his bat goes kablooie the Twins still have a chance to salvage something by converting him back to the mound.
And I know a lot of people will think I’m nuts, but I’d seriously have my ears on if the Twins started discussing Carlos Gomez.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'm all for plus-defense as a CF priority
Trouble with Gomez is, he is gaining the reputation of being a bit of a “head case” / bad work ethic kind of player. I guess his “why slide into home?” gaffe against the A’s wasn’t exactly a unique transgression.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
while it should be
i’m wondering if the twins might begin to feel the pressure of morneau and mauer. there was something up on MTR the other day with quotes from them hinting at their frustration at the team’s unwillingness to make moves at the trade deadline in the past, intimating that it could affect their contract decisions moving forward. thus, i wonder if minny makes a move it normally wouldn’t for fear of pissing off mauer and losing him to FA soon.
by guy incognito on Jul 28, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember when we had Brandon Wood...
He called himself “Bobby Crosby” back then.
by PL78 on Jul 28, 2009 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
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