Tidbits with Taj: Post-Holliday Edition
Despite a continuation of the team's season-long losing ways, the past few days have seen some renewed hope around these parts. Personally, I'm getting really excited for the near-term future for the first time since the first series of this season. Even so, I think there are still several things that I've been concerned about/thinking about as this organization runs full steam ahead towards preparing for the 2010 season:
1) Wallace at 3rd: The scouts really seem mixed on Wallace's "defensive ceiling" so to speak. The consensus seems to be that he has almost non-existent range, but good enough natural instincts, footwork and arm strength to field whatever is hit to his general vicinity. In order to maximize his value to the team, I think he should remain at 3rd in the minors for the rest of this season and break into the majors next season at 3rd as well. It would be great if the team could target a shortstop in free agency or in the trade market who has great range to compensate for Brett's defensive shortcomings. Jack Wilson, while a well-below average offensive player, remains a stalwart on defense with great range and should be available on the free agent market this winter for a modest price. The A's could also target JJ Hardy or Reid Brignac in trade talks in the coming months, both of whom come with solid defensive reputations.
2) Dearth of Pitching Depth: I'm as big of a fan of the young A's starting rotation as anybody, and the front four (Braden, Anderson, Cahill, Mazzaro) seem poised to stay together for years and anchor this team's staff well into next decade. However, beyond that front four, there seems to be a real drop-off in terms of MLB-ready/effective pitching in the upper levels of the system. The combination of the young guys' inconsistencies, the total enigma/occasional piñata known as Gio Gonzalez and the long-term injury to Josh Outman leaves me less than convinced that this team can compete over a full season. Without a reliable 5th starter and some AAA depth, the A's rotation is one injury away from being totally overexposed. Guys like Dana Eveland, James Simmons, Graham Godfrey and recently-acquired Clayton Mortenson might be able to fill-in a bit over the next year or so, but all have significant issues to work on and are hardly sure-things. With some money to (presumably) spend this winter, I would hope the team looks into signing a veteran starter to help protect against injuries and bridge the gap until/if Josh Outman can return to the rotation. Tim Hudson, Doug Davis, Brad Penny and Randy Wolf could all be decent options on 1-year deals. Depending on how he rehabs and returns to the team in the next month or so, the team could also offer arbitration to Justin Duchscherer and hope he accepts...but that could be a risky proposition though, considering that Duke makes nearly $4 million this season.
3) Kennedy back next year...and O-Cab too?: It's great to hear that Adam Kennedy "Absolutely loves it," in Oakland and wants to return next season. AK's been a nice bright spot for this team so far this season and he seems like a solid-clubhouse guy and veteran presence. He can a do a little bit of everything on the field and has shown his versatility by seamlessly transitioning to 3rd base. I think he'd be a nice 1-year bench buy for 2010, provided he doesn't want much more than $1.5 million for 2010. He can back-up 2nd and 3rd, he stays relatively healthy and should be an improvement over the AAAA fodder like Petit and Pennington. I know O-Cab has been a general disappointment to A's fans this season, but he's recently picked-up his play both offensively and defensively and still offers a somewhat diverse package of skills for a middle infielder. He also has indicated that he feels comfortable with the A's and living in the Bay Area. Seeing as how the A's can't even offer him arbitration if they wanted to, it makes a bit of weird sense that he could return to the A's next season in a bench role for a lot less than the $4 million he's making this season - provided he isn't traded in the interim. So long as they're both projected as bench players going into 2010 and make a combined salary of less than $3-4 million next season, I don't think it's the worst idea to try to bring both AK and O-Cab back next season. Together they can back-up pretty much every infield position capably, one bats lefty, one bats righty, they can both hit the gaps and turn on a pitch occasionally and can steal some bases every once in awhile. With the way the A's infield has been decimated by injuries in the past few seasons, it may be worth having these guys around next season just for insurance.
4) Versatality the new Moneyball?: The recent decision to recall Eric Patterson instead of Travis Buck to replace Matt Holliday's vacant roster spot seemed to me the most recent example of the renewed emphasis on versatility being placed by the A's organization. As Kevin Goldstein pointed out in his recent Monday Ten Pack:
One of my favorite scout quotes in recent years concerned Patterson, when an evaluator, comparing him to his brother Corey, said of Eric, "Half the athlete, and twice the ballplayer." Acquired from the Cubs last year in the Rich Harden deal, Patterson has been playing multiple positions for the RiverCats and hitting in every one of them, as a 7-for-13 weekend that included two doubles, a triple, and a home run upped his season line to .318/.387/.517 with 33 stolen bases in 39 attempts. The A's have dreams on him turning into a Chone Figgins type who can provide roster flexibility while producing in multiple positions.
The team also went out and got a near-Figgins clone in Corey Wimberly late in the Spring in a deal with the Rockies. Patterson and Wimberly both seem like players the team would have never targeted a few years back. In addition to getting these two "super-utlity types", the team has also been experimenting down in Midland with various defensive alignments. Adrian Cardenas has played a little shortstop and a lot of 3rd base and 2nd base, while Josh Donaldson has played mostly catcher, but also a bit of 3rd and 1st - not to mention Sean Doolittle's ability to play the corner outfield spots and 1st base. It's very exciting to me that within a couple of years the big league team could be featuring a super-versatile, athletic team with multiple guys that can play multiple positions capably and produce at each position - rather than being a hobbled, limited and unexciting group that we've become accustomed to.
5) Moving Hairston?: I'm not a big fan of Scott Hairston. To me, he seems like a more-expensive, older version of Aaron Cunningham. A little power, a lot of strikeouts, not a ton of walks, decent batting average and a fair defender. At first, I liked the deal to get him, since it seemed like a fair trade and definitely improved the struggling offense. But now I'm starting to second-guess the deal (especially since we know that Sean Gallagher is part of the trade) and because it seems like the team is overloaded with younger, cheaper outfielders. I'm interested to see if Beane is listening to offers on Hairston, who's relativelty affordable and can provide a little pop for the stretch run for a team like the Tigers or the Giants. Moving both Holliday and Hairston in a week's time might seem hasty by normal standards, but this is Beane we're talking about...with Patterson up with the big club and the team wanting to see what it might have in Buck at some point, I wouldn't rule out a Hairston trade.
6) Rally 'Round the (Bear) Flag?: I consider myself a general Citizen of California ahead of being a "Norcal-er" or "SoCal-er". I have lived in both the Bay Area and L.A. for about the same amount of time and have an equal amount of connections to both areas of the state. Part of the reason I first got really into the A's a few years back was because of how many California-natives they had in their organization - including Billy Beane himself, Eric Chavez, Barry Zito, Mark Kotsay, Eric Byrnes, Jason Kendall, Bobby Crosby, Jason Giambi, not to mention the elder generation of Rickey, McGwire and Eckersley. Not that being Californian should be a pre-requisite for being an Oakland A or even an Oakland A's fan, however, I'm really excited that the organization seems to be bringing in a significant number of local Bay Area and California kids into the organization - either intentionally or simply by coincidence. Guys like Brett Wallace, Tyson Ross, Dallas Braden and (possibly) Max Stassi provide the fan with an added connection to the players on the field...the added significance of "rooting for the local boy(s)." In no way am I advocating the A's target players exclusively because of where they were born or raised, but I'm just commenting that it brings an added bit of enjoyment for me to see talented players from Northern California produce for the A's.
9 recs |
79 comments
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Comments
Since Beane seemed to "Rush" some young pitchers..
I think he should start to be more aggressive in promoting some of the hitters as well. Id like to see Carter/Wallace/Cardenas playing in Oakland by Mid next year. Along with good playing time for Buck/Cunningham, and less for Sweeney.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jul 25, 2009 12:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree, somewhat.
- If Carter is in AAA this time next season and putting up a similar .300/.400/.500 line like he is doing in Midland right now, then yes, I agree he should be called up to the majors for the 2nd half of the season.
- If Cardenas’s batting average is hovering around .350 in AAA this time next season like it is currently in Midland, then yes, I agree that he also should be up with the big league team.
However, I don’t think it would be wise to make a blanket statement like “all these hitters should be up in the big leagues by this time in 2010 because we rushed the pitchers to the big leagues and they turned out fine for the most part” because we just don’t know how they’re going to react to the higher level of competition…case in point: Cardenas flop at AAA earlier this season.
Agree about more Buck and Cunningham and less Sweeney, though. Sweeney will never hit for a lot of power, nor will he ever hit lefties nor will he be a true defensive difference-maker in center field..he’s a 4th outfielder…a good 4th outfielder, but still a 4th outfielder, and his playing time should be predicated on that fact.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jul 25, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have faith that Cardenas/Carter
Will continue along whats expected of them. I dont sense to much trouble for them in AAA. Cardenas didnt really get confortable the short time he was there(18 games).
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jul 25, 2009 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardenas and Carter
Are the two players in the A’s system that I am not worried about. They will perform, and continue to make the necessary adjustments. The next few tiers of prospects have some flaws that they need to fix, but on the whole Cardenas and Carter should be fine.
"I feel like we are sending Danny Haren for Mulder all over again."
- Cardinal fan on the Matt Holliday trade
by Orodawg on Jul 25, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I definitely want the A's to give Cunningham an extended look
Cunningham is only 4 months older than Wallace, and has already torn it up in AAA last year and this. He may not have scouts talking about his sweet swing, but he’s been a very productive hitter everywhere he’s played.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 25, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, everywhere but Oakland.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 25, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I am in the minority
But I really think Sweeney has the potential to get much better. I think the organization does as well, otherwise he wouldnt have had near the amount of MLB playing time in the last 2 years.
by hishnik on Jul 25, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you 100%.
But I think we may be the only ones…if only he can take what he has shown to the next level, but there is still time for that.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 25, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds familiar...
But I really think …………… has the potential to get much better. I think the organization does as well, otherwise he wouldnt have had near the amount of MLB playing time in the last 2 years.
Insert “Crosby” into the blank space.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 25, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A typically tasty treatise, Taj
rec’d.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 25, 2009 1:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the reason Patterson was chosen over Buck
was that they are showcasing him for a trade, because he obviously has no future in Oakland. Can not hit in the Majors. Classic AAAA.
You know things are bad when Bobby Crosby doesn't have the lowest batting average of any starter, yet he's hitting .138. Yes, you're 2009 Oakland Athletics.
by diehardoaklandfan22 on Jul 25, 2009 2:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that Buck is either partying too much, has a poor work ethic, or a poor attitude.
and that the team is trying to make it clear to him that they will not reward his behavior with a $400K annual salary, even though he is more talented than those being promoted ahead of him.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 25, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buck Had to have Really angered the
Front Office. I am dying to know what has made him such a pariah. I will never forget how exciting he was to watch his first year up.
by hishnik on Jul 25, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the same thing with Sean Gallagher
Saint and I had been discussing that during spring training and it looks like the same could be true of Buck going back to last year in ST when the word was going around that Buck was being a rock star in the evenings…..and it did not go over too well with Beane because it was affecting Buck’s overall attitude and performance.
I still would like to get the word from the horse’s mouth on this subject, though, so we can settle the rumors and guessing. Nice post Taj….man I’m excited to see Brett Wallace play! I am really glad Holliday is gone and that the A’s finally filled a gaping need at 3rd, even if Wallace doesn not stick there long term. Anther legit young slugger is never a bad thing. Go A’s!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on Jul 25, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That story makes perfect sense.
He obviously knows plenty of people still in Arizona from his college, and both major Arizona schools know how to party.
Plus, Buck’s about as good looking as a man can be. I’ll bet his daily life is like an Axe deodorant commercial.
Plenty of temptation to avoid hitting in the cages all day and instead do…uh, other stuff.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 25, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we're looking for an investigative reporter
to research Travis Buck’s night-life activity, I think I know someone who would volunteer.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 25, 2009 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You's got a tramp on speed-dial?
I approve.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 25, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, grover, you have no idea
what you’re missing by not attending the game threads.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 25, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of people here want more accountability for the A's' players for on-the-field transgressions
The thing about those is that we can actually see them. I’d bet people would be fine with more accountability for off-the-field transgressions, but the problem there is that we generally don’t see them, and I’m not sure it’s really appropriate for management to say, “Yeah, we’ve told Travis to stop hanging out in bars and clubs until 2 a.m. because he’s been showing up to the stadium hung over and until he cuts it out we’re not giving him a big-league job.”
I mean, I’m just speculating about whatever the issue might be. But if the A’s’ attitude about off-field stuff is, “That’s between us and the player” I couldn’t really argue with that.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 25, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true....
I think it’s just funny how Buck keeps getting buried in the depth chart even though he has nothing left to prove at AAA. It has to be something on a personal level with him…..otherwise it doesn’t make any sense.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on Jul 25, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, as far as it goes
But Eric Patterson has also been tearing it up at AAA. He also has nothing left to prove there. He’s older than Buck – but that cuts both ways: he’s kind of past the point where players are really considered prospects and has less projected development ahead of him, but even more than Buck they’re running out of time to see if he’s got anything to contribute to the next good A’s team. It’s sink-or-swim time for Patterson; it’s merely almost sink-or-swim time for Buck. Patterson also has a broader skill set than Buck (steals bases, plays more positions), and developing a CF or a genuine supersub could be damn near as valuable as definitively settling one of the corner OF positions.
What I’m suggesting is that, if the question is strictly Buck-vs-Patterson, Patterson may have gotten this callup on the merits, even if we stipulate that Buck has been a perfect citizen. There are only so many slots on the roster, and Patterson has made a real case for an extended look. (I also remember that the last time Patterson was up, Geren talked about how they intended to give him a true extended tryout to see what he could do at second base. Then he had a bad game or two, Petit got a few hits in one game, and Patterson’s extended opportunity was immediately and unceremoniously revoked… I’m making it sound like the organization was capricious here, and perhaps it was, but by god he looked awful and you can see why a manager and front office might just change course despite their supposed commitments in his case.)
Mind you, I’m referring strictly to the decision to call up Patterson rather than Buck. On the broader question, it’s clear that Buck hasn’t received the same opportunities that Sweeney has to develop his skills without fear of losing his job, which tends to support the idea that he’s out of favor for whatever reason. (I don’t mention Davis, since Davis is clearly a reserve outfielder and therefore not direct competition for Buck. Davis is what this team needs in a reserve outfielder – right-handed, able to handle CF more or less, able to steal a base on demand even if he is prone to occasional gaffes on the bases – whereas Buck pretty much has to hit well enough to be a near-everyday player to have value to the A’s. So Buck and Davis are not really competing for the same roster spot. Davis and Patterson might be, however…)
by Faust on Jul 25, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree...
"I occasionally post and offer little to no insight here on AN except emotional ramblings. Do I remind you of someone? (Nomar maybe?)"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 27, 2009 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I apologoze for the bolded caps, but...
I FOR ONE WELCOME THE TRIUMPHANT RETURN OF TIM HUDSON.
Baseball isn't magic.
by rebus on Jul 25, 2009 2:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
here,here!
“Bring Huddy home!”
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on Jul 25, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be extrememly happy if they gave him another shot.
by VV A's fan on Jul 26, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too -- that would be awesome.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 26, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not opposed to moving Scott Hairston, but I think he’s better than what you give him credit for. I think he can give you nearly 20 home runs with a .280 batting average.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2009 3:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you that he's a near 20-homer bat with a decent batting average.
But I think that the same could possibly be said for Cunningham and Doolittle, not to mention Buck, who might not hit as many homers, but can still hit a lot of extra base hits. I’m not a big fan of Hairston because he’s not a true CFer and I don’t like his track record of not walking very much…but I still understand that he’s a useful bat, which is why he might have decent trade value in this marketplace to begin with.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jul 25, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hairston also has 20 SB speed, though,
which can be said of Cunningham but not Doolittle — and Cunningham has to prove he can cut down on the swings and misses. If he does he’ll be…well…as good as Hairston.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 25, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Point #4 versatility:
It also will give the A’s much better platoon options if they have 3-4 guys who can all play multiple positions.
Patterson isn’t a valuable left-handed platoon bat going forward if he’s limited to LF…but if he can be adequate at 3b, 2b, and anywhere in the OF, he might be. It just creates that many more opportunities where he could be useful.
Many sabermetricians, including all the guys at The Book Blog, believe that platooning is underutilized in MLB. Given that the A’s clearly lack an elite hitter over the next two(?) years, their best chance at an average offense may lie in their ability to create flexible lineups of 7+ lefty hitters against RHP and vice versa.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 25, 2009 3:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Teams do platoon -- they just do it from the bullpen
Back in the heyday of platooning, starters were expected to finish games, and LOOGYs were something you had to clean off the dugout floor. If Earl Weaver started Lowenstein against Eckersley, he could be confident that Lowenstein would get 4 PA’s against a righty.
These days, the starter might go 6 and, then the manager will start playing matchup games with the opposing hitters. The big problem is that if you have 12 pitchers on a roster, and you start 10 hitters (including the DH), you don’t have a lot of flexibility for platooning PHs later in the game. Hitters with extreme platoon differentials are vulnerable to relievers with extreme platoon diffs, and given a roster of 25 I think teams need to pick platooning pitchers or platooning hitters.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 25, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why move Hairston?
cost-controlled for an additional 2 years, semi-consistent 20 hr hitter, and if anything – a good platoon hitter. good luck finding anything like that.
by rollierollieOxenfree on Jul 25, 2009 3:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling
that Hairston will be dealt for prospects…. In a way, I think BB inflated Holiday’s trade value by bringing him on-board.
by hishnik on Jul 25, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have not been impressed by Hairston's
Defense he has looked scared of the ball a lot.
HILLIS
by robbo650 on Jul 25, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been disappointed in his throwing arm from CF
Misses cutoff men, and not very strong throws, either.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 25, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Sweeney was better in CF, personally. Better arm, figuring out the routes, making some jaw dropping catches etc...
Hairston seems like he would be a better LF in my opinion.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on Jul 25, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, Hairston has disappointed in the field.
However, he’s still in the learning/adjusting stage both to the fields (evident at Fenway and Tampa Bay) and his teammates (evident in Swisher’s fly ball that dropped in today), so I cut him a little slack and expect to see some improvement by mid-August.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 25, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we'll see if he's still around after July 31st.....
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on Jul 26, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'll be around. Cabrera not so much.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 26, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hairston
The thing about him he is not a #3 hitter. He is more of a 6 or 7 hitter. The A’s do need his right handed bat in the lineup against lefties.
Cust..The point being why is he batting against lefties when he has never hit them well.
Sweeney.. Not sure whats wrong with him but just like Cust can’t hit lefties.
Buck.. He did tick off Beane with what I don’t know but Beane is ticked
Crosby.. Can you say steroids. Nobodies power drop that quickly. Testing happens then a power drop.
by Arcman on Jul 25, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Steroids
I hadnt thought of crosby and the steroid era, IN a way I think Chavez’s injuries are partially due to him cutting off the juice. I know it might be heresy to talk bad about Chavvy, but I think there is a an argument to be had his health declined when testing was introduced.
by hishnik on Jul 25, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think steroids has anything to do with Crosby's problems,
which have been pretty much the same his entire career: hitting under .240 because he stands too far off the plate, and because he can’t recognize breaking pitches.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 25, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But steroids is so much more "scandelous"
HILLIS
by robbo650 on Jul 25, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it a fluke in his 2004 ROY
When Crosby hit .239 with 22 home runs and 64 RBIs. What happened?
by hishnik on Jul 25, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 22 HRs were oddly never repeated
But the .239 average? Not so much a fluke, it seems.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 25, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, maybe we should be upset that big mac
Mark McGwire has served as Crosby’s hitting coach since the 2009 offseason. I think clandestinely he also tutored Giambi: thus, completing a perfect troika ofjinxing any offensive threat for the a’s this year.
by hishnik on Jul 25, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another McGwire casualty
Chris Duncan:.227, with just 5 homers and 32 RBIs in 260 at bats with the Cardinals. I think he was demoted to AAA then picked up by Boston…..
by hishnik on Jul 25, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another Mazzaro World
Hey, guys, but if you haven’t noticed, this thread bemoans our lack of pitching depth while fretting over which of our many slugging prospects to play. I could have sworn we were discussing the A’s. I feel like Alice in Wonderland.
by redtopcowboy on Jul 25, 2009 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I am all for trading Hairston...
I heard the Phils had interest, and his stock will never be as high as it is now. They have so many cheaper alternatives, most of which deserve a shot.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 25, 2009 4:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to have Kennedy and Cabrera in backup roles next season
I have serious doubts as to whether they would accept those roles, though. Kennedy is coming off a fairly strong showing this season after everyone had left him for dead; Cabrera is picking it up offensively and took a 1-year deal specifically so he could nab a bigger contract in 2010. These are pro athletes we’re talking about— they’re not the types to gladly accept a bench position. They’re always convinced they’re starters. And rumblings that some other teams are asking about them (well, Cabrera, anyway) seem to show that they agree.
Regardless, I like the idea and I hope it comes to fruition. In the short-term, I’d really like to see Patterson get a serious shot at PT. He’s never really gotten a fair shake ’round these parts, and a nice surprise from him would be… well, a nice surprise.
by Joey C. on Jul 25, 2009 6:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right.
After writing this, I saw the rumors about O-cab and the Twins and thought, “No way he takes less money and a bench role if there are still people out there that will pursue him.”
I think it might depend on whether he stays with the A’s through the end of the season and whether he truly enjoys the clubhouse and area enough to want to accept a possible bench role and less money. 99% of pro athletes wouldn’t take that deal and I surely woudn’t expect him to, but you never know.
Kennedy might be more of an ideal fit. Not currently attracting (documented) trade interest despite his resurgence, obviously clicking with hitting coach Skaalen and a fan of the clubhouse, he might accept a bench role a lot more easily.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jul 25, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good call
I probably should have read the Kennedy link before spouting off— I wasn’t aware that he was actively pursuing re-signing talks. Which begs the question— does he see himself getting a lot of innings when the grisly remains of Eric Chavez inevitably break down? Because you gotta figure Brett Wallace will be ready for an audition by 2010.
by Joey C. on Jul 25, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with all the ideas, but quality work deserves a rec
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 25, 2009 6:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+rec
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto. Rec'd.
It would be great if the team could target a shortstop in free agency or in the trade market who has great range to compensate for Brett’s defensive shortcomings. Jack Wilson, while a well-below average offensive player, remains a stalwart on defense with great range and should be available on the free agent market this winter for a modest price.
How is Pennington’s range? I admit I haven’t seen him play much (who has?), would he be just as valuable defensively as Wilson? If so I say give him a shot, before signing someone else.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jul 27, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pennington's defense is reportedly good
his speed should make his range good.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2009 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't that the prediction
With Crosby? I remember hearing that Tejada was expendable because Crosby was such a stud in waiting.
by hishnik on Jul 27, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Tejada expendable because of Crosby's imminent overall studliness
or just his supposedly imminent defensive studliness?
I was only referring to D because this post includes the idea of picking up a solid defensive SS to comp for Brett Wallace’s lack of range at 3B, and inquiring about Pennington’s defense, which, if solid, could eliminate the need to sign a Wilson type.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jul 27, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
why did the OP compare Hairston with Aaron Cunningham of all people? Cunninghams done absolutely zero at the big league level and Hairston has established himself as an everyday player who can give you 20-20 with solid d.
by PL78 on Jul 26, 2009 4:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Hairston has never hit more than 17 homers in a single season as a major leaguer and has amassed all of 18 stolen bases TOTAL for his entire major league career, spanning parts of six seasons…so, saying that he’s “established himself as an everyday player who can give you 20-20..” is a bit of a stretch.
That being said, it’s kind of hard for Aaron Cunningham to have proven himself in the major leagues when he has been given all of 126 at-bats over parts of two seasons, most recently of which he got nailed in the head with a 90mph heater and stayed in the game, despite sustaining a concussion that partly necessitated his need to return to the minor leagues for more seasoning…but that’s all besides the point…
What I’m comparing about the two players is the type of game they play. They both seem like pretty aggressive, right-handed hitters, that hit for decent averages, who can steal a few bases and who can play centerfield in a pinch but are probably best in left-field, but really aren’t that great at doing anything in particular. Without going into the numbers too much, just observation, they seem like fairly similar players, but that’s just my opinion…
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jul 26, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
20-20 over a career certainly seems more than reasonable.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 26, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your analysis
Has me nostalgic for Buck’s first call-up. I feel Buck has the potential to be more than a utility 4th outfielder.
by hishnik on Jul 26, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone ever heard of these guys...
Dan Haren, Rich Harden and Joe Blanton? These 3 guys seem to be carrying the pitching staffs on their respective teams. Any idea where they came from? Oh and there are these three guys…Andre Ethier, Miguel Tejada and Jermaine Dye who seem like they are really good hitters on contending teams. I am wondering what organization they came from. I’m not sure what their salaries add up to, but if we could get the six of them somehow and fill in with minor leaguers around them, I’m pretty sure our record would be better than it is currently.
by Keystone State on Jul 27, 2009 5:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dan Haren, Rich Harden and Joe Blanton
are responible for like all of our top 10 prospects.
Dan Haren:Cunningham,Anderson,Carter, basically Wallace, Peterson, Mortensen and Evaland(whopdee doo)
Blanton: Cardenas Outman and Spencer
Harden: Donaldson Hairston and Wimberley
I am tired of hearing about Eithier. We got Bradley for him and almost a WS appearance.
Tejada and Dye were too expensive.
HILLIS
by robbo650 on Jul 27, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have these prospects ever produced...
anything in the majors? I’m tired of hearing about prosepcts…that often turn into suspects. And if they don’t turn into suspects, they are traded or leave via free agency for other prospects/suspects just as they are entering their prime. What’s the purpose of that? Bradley is and was a POS, ALMOST a world series appearance, ALMOST being the key word in that sentence. The future, the future, the future .. is anyone really guaranteed another day on this earth? The reason you are tired of hearing about Eithier is that he is a good player that should never have been traded for the player he was traded for, so get used to hearing about him, or turn off Sportscenter. Eveland – sucks Outman – TJ surgery All the others – nada
by Keystone State on Jul 27, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know
Haren/Harden/Blanton were all prospects before and they amounted to more than “nada.”
The current prospects will produce eventually and will no longer be considered as prospects, but as major league regulars who could carry a team to a championship.
They say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing all the time!
by muffinpryde on Jul 27, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What exactly are you discounting? the past, the present, or the future?
You hate Dana Eveland because even though he was good last year he’s not good this year. You hate Josh Outman because even though he was good this year, he’s not going to be good next year. You hate Wallace because even though he’ll be good next year, he isn’t good right now.
Make up your freakin’ mind, dude. You’re all over the map.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 27, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO
Blanton would not be helpful on a team like the A’s because the offense isn’t good enough to carry him (if the A’s had the 3 hitters you mentioned maybe it would be different). Blanton is good in Philly because they have a strong offense.
Re: Dye & Haren- They weren’t brought up in the A’s system so I would really say they “came from” the A’s organization.
I understand your frustration but I think the A’s market makes that team you envision highley unlikely.
From USA Today Salaries Database
Tejada -$14.8 million in 09 (Avg $10 mil since 04 w/Baltimore)
Dye – $11.5 million in 09 (Avg $7.5 mil since 05 wChicago)
Haren – $7.5 million in 09 (Avg $5.7 mil since 08 w/Arizona and by the end of his deal $10.8 mil Avg in 2013)
Harden – $7 million in 09
Blanton – $5.48 million in 09
Ethier – $3.1 million in 09
Total – $49.38 million in salary
Current A’s payroll is $62.31 million (reflects the Holliday trade). If you take away the two players who probably wouldn’t be on the team if Tejada was kept (Crosby and O-Cab $9.25 million combined) the payroll would be $53.06 million. Add that to the almost $50 million in player salaries that you wanted to keep and the payroll would be $102.44 million. Lets say the A’s don’t trade for Holliday or sign Giambi because they have these players (take away their salaries but add Street, Smith, and Car-Gon salaries) and the payroll would be $94.49 million. That would be about $15 million more than the highest payroll in A’s history, $79,366,940 in 2007 (unless they had a higher payroll before cots last listing of the year 2000, which I doubt).
Next year Tejada won’t make $14 mil but Dye’s salary goes up to $12 mil and Haren’s to $8.25 (and climbs to $13 by 2013) and the last 3 can expect a new multi-year deal worth at least the same amount. I doubt the A’s could not maintain a $90 mil + payroll for too many years even if they won a lot of games. That would be awesome, but I doubt it.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jul 27, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Recommended
Your reply is a cogent and excellent explanation of the costs of of maintaining the status quo when you’re a team without deep pocketed owners.
Assuming unlimited salaries, anything is possible. The A’s most certainly DO NOT have an unlimited salary, so there are certain limitations to that.
As for Keystone, I’m confused what you’re complaining about. Are you complaining about the fact that Beane trades away experienced players for prospects? But he traded away Ethier…a prospect…for Milton Bradley…an experienced player and a good bat. Not to mention the front office signed Matt Holliday so they could push for it this year.
Or, as I suspect, are you drawing conclusions from hindsight?
What about the names that you forgot to mention…the great coups of the front office? How about trading away mark mulder for your beloved Haren? How about NOT resigning barry zito, he of 4.68 ERA? Without the benefit of hindsight would you have made those decisions?
This game is about risk and when your team has limited resources, you have to risk more than most. Sometimes your bets don’t pan out. But when the option is to continue concentrating your risk in a few aging and increasingly expensive players or to diversify it among a group of less well known but significantly less expensive prospects, you have to move younger. It’s unpredictable, but has an ultimately greater chance of real success as opposed to sustaining mediocrity.
And even when you do roll the dice with good players with great track records, there’s no guarantee of success (See the Matt Holliday trade for additional details).
Ultimately, we’re not a team that can compete dollar for dollar financially with the Yankees or the Red Sox or the Giants or the Angels. If that’s what you’re expecting, prepare for more disappointments. What we are is a team that has to compete more on wits than on cash. We have to take risks.
Which is not to say that losing isn’t disappointing. I die a little bit everytime the A’s lose to the cursed Angels (or any other team for that matter).
The last time I felt this low was at the beginning of the 1999 season. We had fallen from being world series champs to picking second in the 1998 draft. We had traded away McGuire some years before (and that still stung like hell). We had just come off back to back 97 and 88 loss seasons.
The batting was decent but the pitching was shite. We’d had a promising draft, Mark Mulder was highly regarded, but that ain’t no such thing as a pitching prospect and he was years away besides.
And some 6th round scrub named Tim Hudson kept on taking the mound. And kept on beating the crap out of everyone he pitched to.
by eastbayexpat on Jul 27, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very cogent explanation
Also our rotation with just those players doesn’t look too hot right now.
Dating girls is like starting pitching depth, you think you have a good full rotation, even too many starters, then in an instant as soon as you trade your depth away injuries decimate your rotation and you are forced to start Sidney Ponson.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks guys
I had to look up what cogent meant at m-w.com but I appreciate that.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jul 27, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
clicked post in a hurry because some people came to view an apartment
Re: Dye & Haren- They weren’t brought up in the A’s system so I wouldn’t really say they "came from" the A’s organization.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jul 27, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Note to Keystone...
Dan Haren came from St. Louis’ system.
Jermaine Dye was a KC farmhand who came over as a rental that the A’s then re-signed. Too bad injuries ruined his extended stay in Oakland.
Miggy was signed by the A’s and left as a FA after the A’s decided to keep Chavez. They had Crosby in AAA who looked ready for a big league job. Pays your dues and take your chances.
Rich Harden couldn’t/can’t stay healthy.
Blanton is gone, this is true, but before he went down to injury Outman had been out-pitching him this season. Cardenas might be the A’s long term 3B of the future.
Either landed Bradley, who helped the A’s win a play-off series for the 1st time this century. And Either was a prospect at the time… please make up your mind about what you’re objecting to.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 27, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
after looking at his user bio
it seems all keystone does is complain about the team/organization. Try and look at the bright side KS!
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jul 28, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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