How close are we to competing?

I can see this team being similar to the Giants next year.

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Jul 16, 2009 11:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

its not looking good

by ryanmoser on Jul 16, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We’d need two guys to put up numbers those of a Cy Young candidate.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 16, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's made up by the back of our rotation being better than the back of the Giants'

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Jul 16, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

we don’t have any dominant Cy candidate pitchers. What we might have is the best rotation 1 thru 5 in baseball (2010 and beyond). The deepest rotation. A lot of clubs have studs 1 and 2 and then a sharp dropoff. What the A’s could have might be the most overall-solid rotation in the game. I’ll save some skin for a potential BOMAC tattoo, but I’m not heading to the shop just yet.

I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.

by Kallus on Jul 17, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

id rather have studs at 1 and 2 with a big dropoff in a playoff series

we will get to the playoffs but inevitably get bounced early consistently

The Not-So-Casual Fan

by rktse on Jul 17, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But its less likely to get you to the playoffs.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No way...

Their rotation has 2 cy young candidates in it and their lineup actually has… ya know.. a couple major league caliber hitters.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Name the couple

They have one and he may be a fluke. Which is why they are one of the worst run scoring teams in baseball.

Remembering Bill King

by jeffro on Jul 17, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, Rowand's not dreadful

However, all those other spots in the lineup are still problematic.

"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack

by GoA's on Jul 17, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

His contract is.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Jul 17, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And they also have Zito and Sanchez in their rotation.

Even though they have a couple major league caliber hitters, they are still among the worst in offense. And who knows what our offense will look like next season? In all likely hood better than it is now.

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Jul 17, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How close Oakland gets to competing depends on three factors:

1) How quickly they’re willing to jettison the veteran dead weight (Giambi, Cabrera, Nomar) and allow their young talented players to get those valuable at bats instead.
2) How quickly the young talent develops in response to getting that MLB experience.
3) And how willing ownership is to spend money (and by spend money, I don’t mean spend it on short term “fixes” like washed up, old veterans as has been the m.o. the last few years). Signing a guy like Beltre to a 3 year contract would be pretty sweet.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 16, 2009 11:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It could.

Or it could be a complete bust. Beltre is no sure thing.

"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan

by iglew on Jul 17, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure but you could say that about any free agent.

The way I see it, the A’s have relatively few options for 3rd next year.

1) Leave as is, and hope that one of Patterson, Everidge, etc would be able to distinguish themselves enough to be at least an average everyday starter there. If not, then you’re left with the same mess that’s been there for the last 3 years.

2) Hope that Chavez will be healthy. Oh wait, should this even be an option?

3) Use the rent a veteran strategy and sign a guy like Miggy (or even Kennedy) short term. Like I said, I’m opposed to this strategy.

4) Rush Cardenas.

5) Sign one of the two premier free agents at 3B, Beltre or Figgins. Of these two, I’m higher on Beltre because his defense is truly phenomenal and he would be a valuable asset at third even if he only produced offensively as well as he did this year. But I could see the argument for Figgins too.

Obviously from these 5 options, I would prefer number 5. Also, I seem to making a lot of lists today..

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Upvote on Beltre, but Figgins would not be a bad plan B if the A's get priced out.

Option 1 is plan C in my book, since 2010 might be useful as a further evaluation year too. Although that does present the possibility of a rent-a-player situation in the event that they compete despite a hole at 3B, which could lead to a less than favorable deal in regards to the future.

Baseball isn't magic.

by rebus on Jul 17, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think figgins will be more expensive than beltre,

defense is still severely underrated.

by Elston Gunn on Jul 17, 2009 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather have

Figgins than Beltre

Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust

by FrankCohen on Jul 17, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather have Beltre :P

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Jul 17, 2009 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to have any good FA who does not have to be severly overpaid to play at the Colesium.

"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"

by OmahaHi on Jul 17, 2009 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear Santa....

by bobnothing on Jul 17, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I notice

You don’t have Sweeney in next years plans. I highly doubt that Cunningham will be starting. I think that a Barton trade may happen. Chris Carter looks like the future to me, and when you have an insurance clause in Doolittle, Barton may have 1 foot out the door. My hopes for our lineup next year look a little like this…..

C- Suzuki

1B-Carter

2B-Ellis

SS- No idea to be completely honest

3B- Tejada/ Figgins

LF- Hairston

CF- Sweeney

RF- Buck

Again no real power in this lineup, and it is unlikely that Carter will be in the MLB at this point, but its what I hope for.

As for the SS paradox, I really don’t have a player in mind. Yunel Escobar is nice, but he isn’t amazing. Especially since the A’s are lacking power and Escobar does not provide that. I think right now the A’s are stuck with 1 year ss’s till Green is ready, if he develops.

by JamesCaprio on Jul 17, 2009 12:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I agree that Cunningham probably won’t be starting, but I personally would prefer the Cunningham/Hairston/Buck OF. This setup provides for much more power potential and is very solid defensively. I wouldn’t mind packaging say Sweeney/Barton/Minor league pitching depth for a cost controlled young infielder or something of that sort.

Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust

by FrankCohen on Jul 17, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yunel has the 5th best SLG for the majors at .444. Not "The" Elite Power guy but a great upgrade

he actually is kinda amazing when you throw in his salary and team control of 4+ more years. If we could get him with Holiday, prospects, cash, whatever, it would be a very good move for this team.

"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"

by OmahaHi on Jul 17, 2009 1:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

5th for an everyday SS

"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"

by OmahaHi on Jul 17, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Could we keep Kennedy and have him play 3B?

by chillicothe20 on Jul 17, 2009 12:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather go with

a guy like Figgins at third and maybe keep Kennedy around in a utility/injury insurance role. Maybe we could sign a guy like DeRosa as well. The last few injury riddled years have shown the importance of depth, something the A’s have suffered greatly without.

Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust

by FrankCohen on Jul 17, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy would be fantastic off the bench

But guaranteeing him a starting job is just asking for trouble.

by NateHST on Jul 17, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Figgins. dream on. Kennedy is a realistic plan that, if pursued could happen. Figgins isn't.

"Gratuitous gesticulating together sounds even better"

by OmahaHi on Jul 17, 2009 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not that far IMO

a few moves away…

fire geren
they have $35mill off the books after 09
a great up and coming rotation and deep bullpen.
Spend the $$ wisely, no more end of their career, out of prime FAs

by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 17, 2009 12:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Give next year to the young players to develop and adapt; I voted 2011

I’ve been meaning to get some rosterbation in lately, so I think here is as good a spot as ever.

1B: Carter/Barton platoon
2B: Ellis/Cardenas/Weeks
SS: Pennington/Petit
3B: Cardenas/Donaldson
C: Suzuki/Powell? (Maybe a FA veteran makes more sense)
LF: Cunningham/Buck
CF: Hairston/Sweeney
RF: Doolittle/Buck
DH: Whoever is left

SP: Cahill
SP: Anderson
SP: Outman
SP: Mazzaro
SP: Gio/Simmons/FDLS

RP: Bailey
RP: Devine
RP: H-Rod
RP: Demel
RP: Ziegler

Something like this, if it all worked out (hope), would be pretty awesome. Not only is that lineup full of potential, but it’s versatile. Other than Carter and Barton, pretty much all of them are capable of playing another position. I think I have too many players for a 25-man roster, but obviously things aren’t going to work out perfectly.

Barton could be gone at this point as well as Ellis; Buck probably will be gone. That roster is also incredibly young and still cheap, allowing for a nice FA signing or two. Things might be gloom and doom now, but there is still so much talent in our system.

by NateHST on Jul 17, 2009 12:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like that, but what did you do with Braden? Also, you mentioned free agents, and so I’d probably sign a free agent at shortstop and even one at second base if Ellis is gone.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 17, 2009 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do you have against Powell?

Kid’s damn talented. My only problem with him in that role is that he doesn’t get enough chance to develop that talent further. I’d much rather have Powell than your generic backup catcher.

Was leaving Braden off the list just an oversight? I can’t see all the young guys developing so smoothly that Braden drops out of our top 5 as early as next year, and the staff sorely needs his IP totals.

by Faust on Jul 19, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How close am I to being cool?

by Emmett89 on Jul 17, 2009 1:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND

"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles

by Cheezombie on Jul 17, 2009 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, let's see, this is 6 inches

"If Vin Mazzaro comes anywhere near me with shaving cream he’s gonna be coming away with a bloody stump" – Dallas Braden

by doctorK on Jul 17, 2009 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think 2010 is realistic, considering this division

One word: Defense. The A’s are not going to turn into a decent offensive team overnight. They can turn into a really, really good defensive team. They already can pitch pretty damn well, and very few teams have good pitching, defense, AND offense.

To me, unless the Holliday trade can bring forth a MLB ready SS (and the A’s should focus on quality over quantity or position in any trade of Holliday/Kennedy/Springer/whoever else), there is not going to be a decent SS available via FA or trade that the A’s won’t have to massively overpay for, and I think the A’s would be much better off giving the SS keys to Pennington contingent to whether he can play to a 1 WAR caliber.

1B: Barton (5)
2B: Ellis (15)
SS: Pennington
3B: FA!!!!! (I want Beltre, and this team is super good defensively)
CF: Hairston (2ish at CF, although small sample size is playing here)
LF/RF: Bucksweeningham. (~10 runs per corner, +20 total)
DH: Spartacust
C: Zooks

Toss in a Carter or a Doolittle or a Donaldson or a Cardenas possibly banging on the door and outseating people (if Ellis and Beltre are 2B/3B, I don’t see a problem with Cardenas taking SS for part of a season, although obviously long term he is not a SS)

Let’s assume SS is defense neutral, and 3B is +5 runs defensively (it will be more if the A’s get Beltre, but we’re just tinkering around with things)

You have a team that has a plus defender at almost every position and at least an average defender at every other position (with the exception of SS, but the M’s just shipped off Yuni)

Now, this is also assuming that Cust rebounds, and Barton can put up a 100 wOBA+ (league average hitter), and Ellis and Pennington can put up slightly lower than that mark (and Pennington can put up a positive defensive value). Now, this is where what the A’s do this season will be huge. There needs to be an evaluation made as to what Barton and Pennington (and Patterson) can do at the MLB level and whether they are good enough offensively and defensively to hold down the role. That way, the team

Can the 2009 Mariners hit? Not well, outside or Branyan’s career year. The fact that the A’s pitching, starting and relief, will almost definitely be better than the unit the M’s are putting out there this year. So the A’s can contend in that mold.

And, most of the AL West is going to be weak again next year. slegnA and M’s lose major pieces of their core and dont’ have a good farm system. They’re buying their upgrades. Texas is going to be good though.(I hate you, Atlanta)

And holy shit this got long.

><

by Blicks on Jul 17, 2009 7:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Although the team will be sick in 2011 and beyond.

><

by Blicks on Jul 17, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

sick meanin good, right?

It is the A’s; could be either

by bobnothing on Jul 17, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, good. Awesome.

Young pitching = currency of MLB.

A’s = probably deeper than any other team in the young pitching department.

><

by Blicks on Jul 17, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Rays say Hi

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, forgot about them.

Second (or third, if I’m forgetting someone else) deepest is still really good though. (Red Sox lose Smoltz/Penny to FA and Wakefield’s gotta retire soon).

><

by Blicks on Jul 17, 2009 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why does Wakefield have to retire soon

You can throw a knuckleball forever

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

about this close...

by HeavyHitters510 on Jul 17, 2009 7:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

you just never know.....

The Rays were 66-96 in 2007…..granted today it looks like they had more potential talent then compared to the 2009 A’s but it just takes a few key players to improve and obvious Free Agent signing or 2 and they could make a run in 2010……

In todays game predicting 2011 is nearly impossible……

by Colorado Booze Hounds on Jul 17, 2009 7:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This team is far away from competing.

Let’s just assume that the A’s sign Figgins or Beltre. Here’s what we’re left with:

C- Suzuki (Same)
1B – Barton (Slight improvement)
2B – Ellis (Same)
3B – Beltre/Figgins (Improvement)
SS – Petit/Pennington (Same)
LF – Buck (Worse)
CF – Hairston (Same)
RF – Cunningham/Sweeney (Same)
DH – Cust (Same)

So basically we replace Giambi with Barton and Holliday with Figgins/Beltre. If Carter or Cardenas come up some time during the year it’s entirely unrealistic to think they will provide a whole lot.

The lineup I have above is still a mess. There’s no way that lineup can compete unless 2 or more of the SPs compete for the Cy Young, defense improves dramatically, and the bullpen is great. I think all 3 of those things have to happen before you can compete for the division with the dismal lineup the A’s will have.

I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not sure how you can take Holliday out of this lineup, as disappointing as he’s been, replace him with Figgins/Beltre and say it’s better.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 8:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

really good assesment......

If 2 of Buck, Barton, Sweeney, Cunningham, Petit , Pennington really show up…….still it would be a “par” offense…..

you cant compare other teams offense to the A’s (it just makes it more deppressing) but I find it comical that Andruw Jones has 14 HRs off the bench…..tied with our team leader……..

by Colorado Booze Hounds on Jul 17, 2009 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes but thats texas

the stadium plus the air. holiday should be a lesson to us not to get power hitters from certain teams. I knew holiday wouldnt hit 35 hrs in oakland but this is ridiculous.

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the lesson to be learned here is...

don’t pay for power because you’ll way overpay for 20 HRs. What the A’s could do is slightly overpay for mediocre pitchers who may become real good in Oakland.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

1B prospects

i know this is a bit off the tangent, but is it possible that we’re underestimating the A’s need to keep searching for 1B prospect? i know we’ve repeatedly complained about giambi blocking barton and discussed how we have abundance of prospects at the position with carter and doolittle. but:

1. barton simply hasn’t performed at this level, and even in the minors has shown little power for a 1B guy,
2. doolittle really hasn’t proven that he can hit AAA yet, and wasn’t considered a power-hitting prospect until a relatively brief burst in AA last year, and
3. carter somehow never seems to make a conversation for being an elite prospect outside of this blog; and jim callis’ latest assessment from the futures game that he may be one of those who pound on mistake pitches but can’t handle good pitching warrants some concerns.

this is why i think a trade for someone like wallace would be a good move even if he eventually has to move to 1B, because you could never have enough power-hitting prospects, and there always remains fairly possibility that some/majority could flame out. what do you all think? has anyone watched enough of carter to prove/disprove callis’ suspicion, or is there any set of data that prove/disprove his theory?

by tas7b on Jul 17, 2009 9:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Uhhh

Don’t most power hitters “pound on mistake pitches get out on good ones”…?

Remembering Bill King

by jeffro on Jul 17, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Umm...yeah

Wait. All good hitters do that. It’s called strike zone recognition.

And Callis making an evaluation of Carter off the ridiculously SSS that was the Futures game (and probably better pitching than he has ever faced in his pro career to date, is heavily off base.

><

by Blicks on Jul 17, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate Callis

This si sort of the typical bullcrap he writes. “I saw this one dude for 3 at bats and he has a good body with quick hands but appears to only pound the bad pitches.” Really?

Remembering Bill King

by jeffro on Jul 17, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think youre talking about Keith Law...

Callis at least is a scout. Law, not so much.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

I am talking about Callis and his overly “scouty” outlook on players.

Remembering Bill King

by jeffro on Jul 17, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know you were I was more meaning it to be a dig on Law

All I was saying is that at least Callis has the background in scouting that Law lacks, so when he makes scouty type observations, you know that they come from a trained professional. The problem with all scouting is SSS.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

PLEASE NO JACK CUST

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 9:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What I think.....

C: Suzuki
1b: Free agent
2b: Mark Ellis
SS: Adrian Cardenas
3B: Chavez/free agent?
OF: Sweeney
OF: Cunningham
OF: Free agent
DH: Chris carter/Travis buck

Lets give a couple young guys chances who r ready. Cunningham is a good contact hitter in minors, something we can desperately use. Minor league career .309/.381/.500 in nearly 2000 plate appearances. Cardenas is fast and hits for contact. Cardenas is a career .305/.371/.421 in minors and in midland this season has been .358/.429/.489. He walks 9.4% career in minors and its gone up this year to 11.9% in midland. Strike out percentage of 13.8% however its been steadily dropping year by year. He is only 21 so he will improve. If he is not ready give Pennington a shot.

I’m sick of “Jack Cust and Custian type Moneyball gone mad” type decisions. We need people who do not strike out alot and can hit for some contact. For 2 free agent signings, a 1b and of. 1 has to be a Right handed bat, and 1 has to hit for some power. but i’m fine with a guy who is a 20-25 hr hitter.

nick johnson and Jermain dye would be high on my list. Lastly i’d love to bring scutaro back to play SS/3B. Figgins is unrealistic, doubt he’d leave anahiem for us. Hank Blalock could be good as he plays 1st and 3rd.

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Where is Hairston in the mix?

Remembering Bill King

by jeffro on Jul 17, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm not ready to count him as part of future till season ends...

he’s a utility outfielder

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A utility outfielder with the highest OPS on the team who hit in a worse hitter's park.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

perhaps

he wasnt much of anything till this year….

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

.791 last year....

That’s gotta be pretty close to the best on the team.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i can excuse lack of power in SD

but till this year he’s been a 250/310/440 career hitter. Meh he doesnt excite me or upset me

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ugh

Jack Cust was our best hitter in 2008. Please, stop the madness! He is a great hitter for what he does. The problem this year is that we pushed him to be too much for the team. Don’t rely on him to be the huge RBI guy. Don’t rely on him to be servicable in RF. Don’t rely on him to be a super-duper-Derek-Jeter clutch hitter. Rely on him to get on base a fuckton, regardless of strickouts, and rely on him to give you a solid jolt of power. That’s it. If Geren hadn’t screwed with his swing and approach this spring, Cust would probably be the most productive hitter on this year’s team too.

by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

eh

he hit best 5th or 6th. His production with runners in scoring position didnt justify that. 33 rbis in 156 PAs and 52 strike outs?! Only 2 hrs… it suggests all his power comes in useless opportunities. he can’ play the field, but he doesn’t justfy being a DH. Yes his OBP is good but he doesnt produce is situations he needs to. his numbers with 2 outs and RiSP is even worse….

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=custja01&year=2008&t=b

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your statements are wrong.

Judging his numbers based on where he hits in the lineup misses the point. Any time you’re taking splits of fewer than 300 plate appearances, in a meaningless split, you’re walking on thin ice.

Power is good, power is power. It’s a wonder to me that fans can adore the long ball but still despise, even under value, the solo home run. Despite the fact that Cust will never have 120 RBIs, he’s a very good player if used correctly. DH him, slot him at 2 in the order, and let him do his job – walk, strike out, and big fly.

Baseball isn't magic.

by rebus on Jul 17, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh boy

The ‘ol John Kruk "RBI’s and RISP" are stats that are repeatable argument.

Remembering Bill King

by jeffro on Jul 17, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he strike out 27 times out of 72 plate appearances

with runners in scoring position and 2 outs in 2008. AWFUL. That means 37.5% of time he couldnt even put ball in play

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

72 ABs?

Why base anything on such a small sample?

by chri5 on Jul 17, 2009 12:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

"He is a great hitter for what he does."

What’s that…. have a below league average OPS?

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

no, its strike out in any sort of scoring situation

and hr when we’re down 4-0 and no1 is on

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

your 1st statement is mostly right

but your second is wrong. He does homer is situations where it is usefull.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jul 17, 2009 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, let's cherry pick 2009 and completely ignore his above average 2007 and 2008.

Very good.

by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's cherry pick 2007 and 2008...

and completely ignore the rest of his major league career. Very good.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh by rest of his career, you mean before 2007?

He had 144 at bats then. From 2007-2008 he had 876 at bats. So yeah, we’re going to ignore those 144 at bats and “cherry pick” 2007 and 2008.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, then let's keep Giambi another five years...

…rather than just cherry pick 2009?

It’s very possible that Cust’s sell-by date is past. He’s 30 years old, he was always a limited player, and now he’s a bad limited player. I don’t see any change in his approach over the past few weeks to think he’s about to become the 2007-2008 version (not that I liked the Jack Cust who struck out with the bat on his shoulder on a 3-2 count much better than the Jack Cust who swings and misses on a 3-2 count, but that’s just me).

I can understand (and disagree with) defending his worth last year and the year before, but this year? Nope.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What would suggest that Cust has "lost it"?

If you look at his plate discipline statistics you can clearly see the change of approach that Geren made him take fucked him up.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm not suggesting he lost it

i’m saying he never really had it in him to be a middle of the lineup hitter which we think he is. He can’t field. Yes he can hit for some pop and walk a fair amount. Is that what you want from yur Dh who is suited for the 6 hole at best

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've never thought of him as a "middle of the lineup hitter"

I’m not sure where you got that. If he bat 2nd for the rest of his career, I’d be a happy man.

by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm the one saying he lost it

I think the approach that made the Custaceans drool for the past two years is gone, and I don’t think it’s coming back.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Custaceans... classic!

Remembering Bill King

by jeffro on Jul 17, 2009 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why does everyone think it was someone else's decision?

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They weren't paying attention?

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is ridiculous to hold this season against him if the org had him change from his successful approach to one that just doesn’t work with his skill set.

by chri5 on Jul 17, 2009 12:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

How do we know it was the organization and not his own decision?

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because Skaalen and Geren both publicly came out talking about changing his approach?

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thing that is for certain

No matter what anyone thinks of Jack Cust. He CANNOT hit a breaking pitch to save his life.

Good hitters make adjustments. He has a new approach and maybe he gets better overall if he goes back to the old one but one thing remains the same. Throw off speed to him and he makes an out.

He is what he is and he is cheap at the moment for what he delivers but he will never be a great hitter.

My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually he is hitting above league average against curveballs this year...

but completely ignore the data and go ahead making wild, irresponsible, reckless, and untrue assertions

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

curveballs are only a small sample of off-speed he sees.

If Jack Cust was a really good hitter, he would be hitting higher than .231. And even when he was using his old approach, he never hit for high average.

When someone hits .231, there are a lot of holes.

I do not think it is reckless, irresponsible and wild to say he is not good at hitting off speed stuff.

Please show me where to find all this data. I would like to look at it

My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fangraphs has everything.

It’s awesome.

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Jul 17, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Travdog6

I will look that up to better educate myself

My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

There is a wealth of knowledge on there that any baseball fan can benefit from. If you have any questions about how to read it. I would be happy to help, if I can.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank You

I appreciate that.

My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010

by Trainman on Jul 17, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

NP just ask anytime.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW saying that you would look into something and educate yourself is super awesome

and really rare, rather what most people do which is move forward in an argument without evaluating their position.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fangraphs.com

You said

He CANNOT hit a breaking pitch to save his life.

emphasis mine. Curve balls are most certainly a breaking pitch making your statement wild, irresponsible, reckless, and untrue. Cust sees about 12% of his pitches and about a third of his breaking balls in the form of curveballs. So ~66% of his pitches are either fastballs or curves. Hitting for average really isn’t the point of hitting, getting on base with power is. A .350 hitter who never walks, or hits for power anything isn’t good thats a 700 OPS. Batting average as a single stat is nearly worthless in evaluating a player.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

sigh We're back to the "he's not a great hitter!" argument...

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think anyone here is calling him "a great hitter" without any caveats attached.

Yes, he was the best hitter for our 08 team, but our 08 was gawdawful. But used correctly, he’s an extremely useful piece in a balanced offense and he produces a whole lot more value than he is currently getting pad (and will get paid for the next few years). I don’t think it’s worth it throw that all away because of some strickouts.

by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Strickouts?

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Strickouts

"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT

by travdog6 on Jul 17, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"a fuckton"

Is that 2000 fuckpounds, or is it fuckmetric?

Prithee, be not perturbed by yon third bagger.

by Poppy on Jul 17, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

poppy, i love you

and clearly, a “fuckton” is nautical

by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hank Blalock?

Really??

Baseball isn't magic.

by rebus on Jul 17, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he wont get much money at all…. would u mind him for 5-6 mil? I would prefer him to the giambino

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are lots of players to prefer to Giambi at this point. That does not mean all those players are good options.

If the A’s spend, it should not be for mediocre players. A good chunk of money comes off the books after the season, and serious upgrades should be looked at (Beltre, Figgins) – not band aids. Hank Blalock is a slightly better, reverse Hannahan. Garret Atkins would depress me more, but not by much.

Baseball isn't magic.

by rebus on Jul 17, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blalock = do not want

by chri5 on Jul 17, 2009 12:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

if his OBA can crack 300, then maybe we should consider it.

Until then, NFW.

by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is just wrong on so many levels

1 Moneyball isn’t a type of anything, its a strategy of looking for market inefficiencies.

2 Jack Cust is a very good baseball player and will be cheapish.

3 Hank Blalock cannot play a legitimate third base after his shoulder injury and was never a good 3bman in the field anyway

4 Cardenas is not fast. He is a smart runner but he doesn’t have the lateral speed to have sufficient range at SS.

5 Dye is no longer a good baseball player.

6 You don’t think that Barton/Dolittle/Powell/Everidge/Carter should be given a shot at 1b? Because you think messing with one of our organizational strengths is a good idea?

7 Hairston the best outfielder on the roster and far better than Dye or Figgins has no part on your team?

8 You are going to put Buck who is a ~+10 fielder in a corner at DH so he loses 2 WAR by going to DH

9 Nick Johnson is always hurt.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me refute

1. and 2. Yes, we all know, it was just a simple 1 word way of saying Jack Cust is NOT as productive a player of sabermetric geeks would make you believe. He hits poorly in any sort of situation that matters. He walks when no1 is on but he can’t run the bases. He doesnt drive in nearly as many runs as he shot for is OPS or slugging percentage suggest. Infact both those are below what they should be

3. Hank Blalock was a name i threw out quickly looking at free agent list. I meant more at 1b than 3rd. He had 2 injury plagued years but he;s now hitting for some real power. My real point is he’ll get a 3-6 million dollar deal tops. And for that i’d consider him. A’s dont have yankee money if we make a decent size free agent splash itll probably just be 1 with alot of smaller ones.

4. Fast or smart runner, what does it matter? he runs well, hits for good contact. I hadnt read his scouting reports on defense recently ,last i read was they were converting him to short and it was going ok.

5, i suppose hitting 302/375/567 with 20 hrs is TERRIBLE

6. Yes I do, we should still add a free agent batt and platoon 1b dh with most likely carter or dootlittle like i wrote (sorry didnt mention doolittle).

7. do you watch baseball? Scott hairston is in no way better than dye or figgins. He has a lower BA, obp than both and lower slugging than jermaine dye. (figgins, not power hitter) Forgive me for not jumping on the hairston bandwagon yet. He’s had a very good first half, otherwise he’s a career 250 hitter with minimal pop

8. buck as a platoon

9. fine. i’ll give you #9

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would offer you a shovel but it appears you already found one since you just kept digging.

1. No what it is saying in one word is “I don’t know what I am talking about” RBIs are terrible judge of performance. OPS or slugging don’t suggest that he would drive in any particular number of runs. The idea that an inability to run the bases is less valuable than walking is silly.

3. Hank Blalock will cost more than 3-6 million dollars, and yet again he blocks a long group of good propspects.

4. It matters a lot actually. Rajai Davis is a fast runner. He gets down the line quickly and has raw speed which increases his BAPIP due to beating out infield hits and the like. Cardenas is not fast. He is however good at evaluating whether to take the extra base but he will never beat out infield hits or steal bases like a burner. Claiming he is fast is just dead wrong. Before penciling him in as your starting SS you might want to look and see that he hasn’t been playing at SS because his defense is bad.

5. In 2007 he was a -.7 WAR player in 2008 he was only worth 1.7 WAR. Right now he is only worth .4 WAR more than Sweeney who we just replaced. Dye’s defense is so bad that it gives away 2 wins a year compared to league average. Only read half the story and youll bound to be shocked by the ending.

6. Rushing Carter is a bad idea but you have two good prospects in Barton and Doolittle. Doolittle doesn’t appear to need to be platooned and if you did bring up Carter he would be the platoon partner for Doolittle/Barton.

7. Do you only watch the part of baseball with people hitting the ball? Defense matters. Scott Hairston has acumulated 2.1 WAR this year, Dye 1.7 WAR. If you put Figgins in the OF he would be worse due to his poor defense.

8 Platooning buck as a DH does nothing to mitigate the fact that he loses 2 WAR of value for playing him there… try again.

9 Try giving me 1-8 as well. If you do itll be the first correct thing that you have said so far.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I put 2011

For this reason:
Simmons, Braden, Outman, FDLS, Cahill, Mazzaro, Anderson, Gio… The A’s need 5 of them to have a stellar rotation… most of the league needs at least one of them to have a good one.

Add to that Weeks, Carter, Doolittle, Cardenas, Donaldson, Powell, Suzuki, Green (maybe), Hairston, Bucksweenhamington/some other pieces the A’s got in trades for the excess starters and WOOOO HA! I got you all in check. Or something

Remembering Bill King

by jeffro on Jul 17, 2009 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

2010 is possible

Teams tend to make the jump to success a year earlier than anyone anticipates. That’s why it’s important to play Barton and Buck immediately, and why it’s important to bring up Doolittle and Everidge at the earliest possible time this year.

I suspect we may have a top-notch rotation as early as next April, and the team needs young quality position players to go along with it. If Barton and Buck fail, then next season starts with Carter, Doolittle and/or Everidge, and Cardenas makes the jump as early as May or June.

Obviously signing Chone Figgins would be a huge start. Finding a new manager without Geren’s baggage would be another huge plus. If the A’s can’t get Figgins or Beltre (for his defense), then I’d go with Kennedy. Obviously there’s also Chavez, but let’s great real…

Shortstop is another issue, but I definitely see that resolved via trade or an FA signing during the off-season, and hopefully we won’t lose too much in the process.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 12:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

...and I'd dump Cust

…just because I can’t stand watching the guy.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's great reason to get rid of a guy.

OMG STRICKOUTS!

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well actually...

It’s the .231 batting average, it’s the .408 slugging percentage, it’s the .730 OPS from a guy whose only purpose is hitting, and who is a dangerous liability in the field.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Considering that the only thing that's really changed about Cust is his approach,

which isn’t a sign of age related decline, I’d say it’s more likely that Cust’s performance this year is less due to age (he’s only 30 after all) and more due to the new approach. Since this problem is correctable, it’s probably far too early to jump on the get rid of him now bandwagon just because, well, “you can’t stand watching the guy.”

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And the rather frightening thing is

even with Cust’s underperformance this year, he still has the fourth highest wOBA on the team, behind Suzuki and two guys who probably won’t be here next year (Kennedy and Holliday).

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That says more about the team than Cust.

As a friend of mine pointed out, “There’s no A in Suck.”

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lots of declines happen early

Andruw Jones in 2007 had stats eerily similar to those of Jack Cust this year. Then the bottom dropped out in 2008. He rebounded in 2009, but that certainly wasn’t a given.

If Jack Cust were a starting pitcher, who’d had ERAs of 3.80 and 3.85 in two successive seasons, and then in a third, having lost the sink on his curve, saw his ERA soar to 5.40 - would you be so defensive about his future?

I don’t think this change is going to get “corrected.”

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's actually not true.

Players generally don’t start to decline once they hit 30. Players that do are the exception to the rule. And citing a random example of one player who did doesn’t really prove your point. Plus, as far as I can tell, Jack Cust hasn’t made as many horrible dietary choices as Andruw Jones had.

Your starting pitcher example is flawed. Like I said, Cust’s problem this year has been been his approach. A better example would be a pitcher who changed his mechanics after 2 years of success only to find to that the new mechanics aren’t working for him. It shouldn’t be so hard to revert back to his old mechanics, or he should at least be given an opportunity to try before being jettisoned.

And the reason why I cited the wOBAs is this. Because it’s likely that Holliday is gone next year, and Kennedy is either gone or not likely to replicate his success this year, then you’re left with Suzuki and Cust as the only relatively good hitters on this team. And then you get rid of Cust too? I thought the point of building an offense is to gather good hitters. Heck, even if the A’s added someone like Beltre, the A’s would still be lacking greatly if Cust, Kennedy, and Holliday all left. Point is, Cust, and even this pseudo version of Cust, is still a lot better than most of this team’s alternatives.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your mechanics comparison isn't valid, I don't think

Jack Cust’s problem isn’t as simple as changing mechanics. The equivalent there would be if he changed his batting stance (like Holliday, for instance) then was able to change it back.

Last year, Cust himself made noise (if I remember correctly) that he didn’t feel he was as aggressive as he should be. That was then echoed by Geren and the hitting coach. In other words, this wasn’t something from on high, it was a communal decision and effort to make him more aggressive.

I suspect, though of course this is just speculation, that his earlier approach wasn’t a really conscious decision. It’s hard to go back to a previously unconscious state of mind after you’ve become conscious of what you’re doing. And I think he was more successful last September when he tried to be more aggressive. You’re assuming he’ll be able to suddenly be passive again. I doubt that will happen.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meh, a lot of speculation here.

You obviously have some sort of inherent dislike for the guy and apparently anything I say isn’t going to change your mind. There’s really no point in continuing the discussion.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've seen too many games where he sucked.

That’s kind of an inherent dislike, I suppose.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're not giving any reason why he'll change his approach

other than your own speculation. So why should it change my mind?

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is pretty easy to go to an unconscious state. Just get hit really hard in the head, or drink way too much.

by chri5 on Jul 17, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

To my knowledge Jack Cust's problems aren't buffet table related.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes it is,

he is the easiest hitter to get out in a situation

by tafkasam on Jul 17, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jack Cust's career OBP of .369 begs to differ.

But whatever, keep making outlandish claims. I’m done here.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 17, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah Cust has ALWAYS watched pitches like he was staring at Picasso’s at an art gallery, which led to high amounts of walks and strikeouts but less outs made, and most importantly, a very high OBP/OPS.

This year, idiot mittens Geren told him to swing at everything and that took away what made him valuable now we have Cust the bad hitter.

Cust being bad this year = 100000% blamed on Geren and the coaching staff.

by PL78 on Jul 17, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Sure About That

There seems to be an assumption that somehow this year Geren and Co. told Cust to swing at everything. I seem to recall Cust himself saying last year, mid-year when he was awful, that he wasn’t being aggressive enough. Shortly thereafter, and for September, he was a much better hitter.

My sense is that - given the fact that Geren apparently doesn’t force anyone to do anything - that Cust himself chose, in tandem with Geren, to work on his aggressiveness. This is clearly a move that didn’t pay off.

It’s my sense that Cust won’t go back to his old passive self. I say this because if he could’ve by now, he would’ve. I can come up with all kinds of speculation (above) why not, and others can speculate that he’ll change his approach. But this approach is not working, and hasn’t worked for a couple of months. If he hasn’t changed it by now, it means either he won’t, or he can’t.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

can you link that? I really don't remember anything like that.

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jul 17, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wish I could remember where I read it or heard it

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"idiot mittens Geren"

This is something that tickles me

by cityplANner on Jul 17, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep expectations in check...

Top notch rotation by next spring? You can’t expect these young pitcher to be Cy Young candidates next year.

"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra

by brenarlo on Jul 17, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not Cy Young...

But Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Haren, Verlander, Webb, Peavy - all were quality starters in their second year. Peavy made the big jump in his third year; Haren and Webb the following year. Verlander is still a quality starter but never made the big jump. Zito was a monster his first couple of years.

Braden, Mazzaro, Anderson and Cahill could all easily have ERAs between 3.20 and 3.60 next year. More than possible. Barring injury or major regression, I think it’s likely.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm being optimistic

But I think it’s likely they’ll all have ERAs under 4.10 and more than likely that a couple will have really good ERAs.

by richwol1 on Jul 17, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

zito, hudson, mulder

were all older in there debuts than cahill and anderson. IMO they were a bit rushed…. I’m saying Matt Cain over in SF might be a better comparison, hes only 24 now. He struggled for 3 years from an early call up similar to cahill and anderson’s age. The stuff was always there though.

I dunno, eitherway both should be top notch just a matter of time

by tafkasam on Jul 18, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs