PTBNL for Hairston is Sean Gallagher...
by Syphon on Jul 12, 2009 9:05 PM PDT
300 comments
As reported here by Susan Slusser the PTBNL is Sean Gallagher.
"GALLAGHER TO PADRES: The player to be named in the Scott Hairston deal with the Padres will be right-hander Sean Gallagher, two sources confirmed to The Chronicle. Gallagher (knee) is on the disabled list at Triple-A Sacramento and is not eligible to be sent to San Diego until he comes off the DL."
"Gallagher, obtained last July in the Rich Harden trade with the Cubs, is 3-5 with a 6.34 ERA in 17 games, 13 starts, with Oakland. He had a 1.74 ERA in five starts (202/3innings) with the River Cats this year."
Not sure how I like this trade now. I liked Gallagher a lot. We shall see.
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Oh well, at least its official
I guess the Billy Beane doghouse is a thing to be feared—look out Travis Buck.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Jul 12, 2009 9:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
People are pretty mixed on Sean Gallagher and I have to say that I don’t really care that he was traded. Ryan Webb had a 4.34 ERA and a .315 BAA in Triple-A and Craig Italiano (I think that’s his name) had abysmal numbers in Single-A. I know stats aren’t everything, but I am happy with the trade. I think Scott Hairston is a pretty good hitter and someone that will be in the middle of the order for years to come.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 12, 2009 9:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mixed reaction. Makes me realize how little, before today, we gave away to get a player of Hairston's caliber
I’m not sure Gallagher will ever meet his potential as a starter, but I could see him hitting his stride as a reliever in his mid-to-late-20s a la Gaudin, Duchscherer, Juan Cruz or Aaron Heilman, all of whom have had some success out of the pen at some point. Not to say he couldn’t ride his stuff to a successful career as a starter, but I see him 7th-8th inning type, which I doubt Gallagher would be happy to hear.
Better Gallagher than, say Gio Gonz. All-in-all, though, not a huge loss, and I really like Scott Hairston.
http://www.myspace.com/ryanmac10
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 12, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BAA is not a good statistic in the minors
as it is often inflated by terrible defenses. ERA especially for relievers is a poor measurement at any level. I would suggest in the future you look at FIP which does a much better job at showing the true value of both relievers and starters.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 12, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to add to that,
the total amount of batters faced means it’s difficult to get much from the numbers. Probably only K rate, and batted ball type (GB/LD/FB) are useful.
Baseball isn't magic.
by rebus on Jul 13, 2009 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
walk rate, too
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 13, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im going to agree a lot with the K% BB% but disagree on batted balls
in the minors the batted ball profiles are all fuckcocked.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, true, I sometimes forget about the discrepencies.
What would your cutoff for BB% be? As far as I know, it’s actually much higher than K/PA, maybe something like 500 TBF.
Baseball isn't magic.
by rebus on Jul 13, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I don't think there is one in my mind per se
I just look at the numbers and if the sample is small i discount the authority of the information, but I still keep in in mind. Its more of a sliding scale of the value of the information rather than a now you’re valid now you’re not kind of cut off.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm fine with it
I was not of the Sean Gallagher believer variety.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jul 12, 2009 9:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure how you dont believe in a pitcher..
who was young for his competition who threw 95 with a great curve that had no prior issues with control till he got hurt and pitched anyways.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jul 12, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess maybe I phrased that poorly
I just meant I wasn’t as big on him as others.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jul 12, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well he pitched like crap for the A's this year.
Granted, he’s young and entitled to a blow-out or two. I’m just saying A’s fans aren’t crazy to be skeptical of a guy who gave up 12 earned runs over his last 12 innings for the Green and Gold (which included an ugly, ugly start against TB that prompted his most recent demotion).
by smokelanda on Jul 12, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me
It was that he was just so unequivocally bad with the A’s. Does he have strengths as a pitcher? Clearly. Does he have youth on his side? Absolutely. Are there reasons to think Sean Gallagher will be a rotation mainstay for years to come? Certainly. But I’m not too broken up about the whole deal, because at the end of the day, he was just plain awful for the Oakland Athletics. Miserable. He had literally two good starts the entire time here. And we already have a bunch of young pitchers that have many of the same issues and upside Gallagher did.
Meanwhile, Scott Hairston can hit. Dealing from a strength (pitching) to address a huge, huge weakness (hitting).
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jul 12, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1, This, I agree, or something like that
Meanwhile, Scott Hairston can hit. Dealing from a strength (pitching) to address a huge, huge weakness (hitting).
it might have been better if it was an infielder though.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jul 13, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jul 13, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is the "till he got hurt" part
most pitchers don’t recover from the till he got hurt.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am bummed
Not surprised. His talent was so tantalizing. Now I can stop hoping for him to become a quality starter. Wish him the best of luck. He couldn’t be in a better spot tho, than in san diego.
You know things are bad when Bobby Crosby doesn't have the lowest batting average of any starter, yet he's hitting .138. Yes, you're 2009 Oakland Athletics.
by diehardoaklandfan22 on Jul 12, 2009 9:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kudos to the AN detective force
It’s a shame to see Gallagher go because I thought he still had a lot of potential. But I’m not sure that he would have been able to realize it in Oakland and Hairston fills a need for this team so I’m still ok with the trade.
by DiegoAsFan on Jul 12, 2009 9:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
now we can go back to making fun of John Lackey’s ugly mug without fear of retribution…
by harenshair on Jul 12, 2009 9:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Edgar Gonzalez says hi.
Rawr.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 12, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To bad we can not tell him
goodbye…
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 6:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
whaddya mean?
he’s the bestest long man ever!
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 13, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
I guess we can just add this to my ever-growing file…
<sigh>
Long-live Dana Eveland!
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 12, 2009 9:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Your signature is the best, but in my crystal ball, he’s batting third, it’s September 25, 2014 and Justin Upton is hitting .324 with 39 home runs and 122 RBI.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 12, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
amen, brother.
The best part is my prediction can’t possibly be wrong for another five years!
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 12, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're on track so far
Upton’s taken over the 3 hole for Arizona this year. He’s made it to the All-Star game, which will help boost his contract value. Beane’s been loosening the purse string ever so slightly the last few years. At this point, I’d say the least likely part of that prediction is the bit about the supposed San Jose A’s
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack
by GoA's on Jul 12, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sad part is, if the supposed San Jose A's don't happen...
the contract never would. It’s hard to visualize a truly elite, “best in his class” free agent signing with the A’s prior to them being in a shiny new stadium.
Hurry up and start digging, Billy.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 12, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, he could be re-signed through 2014 before then.
FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Jul 13, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
then traded to the A's in 2014 once the Diamonbacks...
remember that they’re the franchise that wanted Randy Johnson’s contract to be paid lottery-style…not lump sum, which in sports would take the form of a massive signing bonus (that’s more for Albert Haynesworth and other top NFL free agents), but rather the 25 yearly installments…actually, it would probably be more like the New York Lottery’s Win For Life scratch-off tickets…the next Paris Hilton woujld be Justin Upton’s granddaughter.
by Cutthemullet on Jul 13, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I apologize for the Dutch spelling of "would"
as well as the misspelling of Diamondbacks, about which I have no clever/“clever” comment. Why preview posts when one can instead review them and respond to oneself about the error of one’s ways?
by Cutthemullet on Jul 13, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you meant "woujld" like "ask the woujldi board"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 13, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I constantly type "of" instead of "or"
That might be a typo, but “of” happens to be the Dutch word for “or” — so maybe I’m writing the right word, but in the wrong language. C’est la vie!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 13, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a good way to clarify your heritage once and for all:
When you go out to a meal with someone, do you split the bill evenly?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 13, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sir, you are profiling!
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Jul 13, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were pulling over every car
on the sidewalk that night-and that’s profiling….
"Camelot sure fell apart, didn't it?"-Steve McCatty
by 5Aces on Jul 14, 2009 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, every car with the license plate...T8RSALD
I don't always blog. But when I do, I prefer AN. Stay thirsty my friends.
by Kallus on Jul 14, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on whether someone orders lemon chicken
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 13, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or has an extra
shrimp squid.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 13, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
both Uptons have publicly stated that they're not signing extensions.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 13, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 quick things
1. weren’t there 2 players in the PTBNL variety that would be chosen upon? Or was it at the time and Towers made his decision.
2. I wish all the best to Gallagher. I’m sure he will do better in the NL and now there’s nothing but a bright future comin’ to him…
by stranahanahan on Jul 12, 2009 10:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, there are two guys and Towers gets to choose between them.
Presumably the other is a fallback plan in case something goes wrong with Gallagher. The Slusser article just confirms that Gallagher is the one that Towers wants (as was widely speculated here).
My guess is that it’s technically not final yet. If tomorrow morning Gallagher decides to retire from baseball, or if his arm falls off while he’s reaching for his alarm clock, I think it’s probably not too late for Towers to take the other guy. But nothing like that is expected to happen.
We might never know who the second guy was. They aren’t required to reveal it, and they might feel it’s more politic not to.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have my suspicions the 2nd player was James Simmons
I suppose we will never know for sure. I guess the Padres medical team checked out Gallagher and felt there were no long term effects of his current injury.
by DeJay on Jul 13, 2009 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a question I'd love someone to answer
(Sorry if it’s been answered already somewhere).
How are “players to be named later” determined in trades? Are they actually decided upon at the trade but not revealed until later? Or are they chosen later? How does that work?
I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.
by ORthey on Jul 12, 2009 10:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Depends on the situation
Sometimes they are already known but can’t be anounced due to some restriction. Often the case when trading recent draft picks who aren’t allowed to be traded untill a year after they are drafted.
Other times one team hasn’t decided who they want yet and are given a list of acceptable players and a time frame within which to make a decision.
by DiegoAsFan on Jul 12, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that you can either choose to name the player later despite knowing who you want or you can decide between a few guys up to a certain date.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 12, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it official he's there #1 choice, or official the Pads are going to pick him NO MATTER WHAT?
The press release was short on details. If things don’t go right with G ei he’s stays on the D.L.another month the Pads could still go with plan B?
I’m sure its grasping at straws but until it’s actually announced by an A’s or P’s official there could still be a chance G’s more injured than originally thought. It wouldn’t be the first time the A’s medical staff was wrong. Now the Pads could just tell the A’s to not D.L Gall again, let the trade go through, then D.L. him as a Pad and take that risk.
by OmahaHi on Jul 12, 2009 10:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I will remember Sean Gallagher's first start with the A's for a long time
I was in charge of the game thread that day, so I was watching closer than usual. I had never seem him pitch, and he was absolutely dominant that night. Terrific fastball, and awesome 12-6 knee-buckling break on his curve. He showed great composure and pitched his way out of jams that night like a grizzled vet.
I remember being very excited about him at the time. I’m excited to have a legitimate hitter in exchange, but I am sad to see that promise leave the organization.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 12, 2009 10:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I watched that game.
I really think that was the real him. We do have excess pitching so maybe this wont come back to bite us.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jul 12, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hate the trade.
Sell low on Gallagher and Buy high on Hairston? That sounds like it makes a lot of sense….oh wait….
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 12, 2009 10:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am torn on this trade
I remember watching Gallaghers first game and feeling okay about the Harden trade. I don’t know what happened to him this year, but he obviously blew his slot on the starting rotation. Gallagher’s last performance was horrendous. For me his horrible last start culminating in a “spacing out” and crossing up Suzuki is a fitting fare-well for G. We need bats, and Harden’s glass arm pretty much imploded this year, so at the end of the day it all works out.
by hishnik on Jul 12, 2009 10:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm torn
Because I think we could have got more for Harden last year, and it sucks the centerpiece of the trade crash-and-burned in the organization.
by hishnik on Jul 12, 2009 10:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That's how I see it too
Billy has such a good reputation that ofttimes articles out on the web come with this “Never trade with Billy Beane” undertone to them. Reality is of course that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But Billy always seems to take fan-friendly chances.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jul 13, 2009 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I officially hate Scott Hairston and this trade...
I hope Gallagher throws a shutout against the A’s next time they play (which isn’t too hard now a days)
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 12, 2009 10:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
screw that noise
i hope throws a shutout against the Giants. I hope he is good for Pads and he beats the Giants consistently. I hope Hairston works out for us and all of our young starters leave no doubt that Gallagher wasnt needed. we’re A’s fans here right.
by Jessse on Jul 12, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you. My first post was an overreaction. I LOVE sean Gallagher. I dont know the reason, but I LOVE him.
And to me, we could’ve done better than Scott hairston for him…
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 13, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw this last night and after some cool down time from the trade I'm actually not that upset. Its whatever now.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 13, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Hairston's fault
What’s there to hate about having .300-hitting, 20-20 threats in the prime of their careers in Oakland’s OF?
I was quite the Harden fan, but anyone who’s bitter that Harden turned into Hairston, and I’m not saying this guy is, shouldn’t be too upset. Harden is a constant injust concern and has a 5.47 ERA at the break. Not only do we still have three years of Hairston, but who knows what could come of Josh Donaldson.
Trading Gallagher for Hairston may have made the Harden trade look even better. While selling low on Gallagher, we traded a high-risk, high reward pitcher for a known product in Hairston. Now, relate that to 1.5 years of Harden, and it doesn’t look so bad.
http://www.myspace.com/ryanmac10
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 12, 2009 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like that reasoning.
We didn’t trade Harden for Hariston. Every trade should be evaluated on its own merits.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree dfa,
I said exactly the same thing in an earlier thread.
Beane has basically admitted that Harden was traded for a group of players that simply aren’t very good. Perhaps Donaldson will work out in Oakland … that’s it. If you had told Beane last year that Murton would be gone, Patterson would be in Sacramento, and Gallagher would be traded? No way he makes that deal. Beane figured Gallagher was the key – the guy who would be a solid starter for us for several seasons, at least. And he bombed.
Hey, it’s not the end of the world, and I like Hairston, but that doesn’t change the fact that the Cubs got Harden for basically nothing. In less than a year, we only have two of the four players acquired in our organization, with the key piece already dealt. And please don’t try and spin it by suggesting Beane was shrewd enough to figure he was going to flip the guys we got for other players. Nope. Very, very rarely does a team acquire players with the idea of turning right around and trading them. If it happens, it happens almost immediately. No, Beane made a bad deal. Again, not the end of the world, but a fact, nonetheless.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that at the time of the trade
Beane or Forst (can’t remember which) was quoted as saying that the Cubs had been after Harden for over a month, but the trade didn’t happen until the Cubs agreed to include Gallagher.
by OaklandSi on Jul 13, 2009 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wasn't really "shrewd"...
But I think it did factor into his possible scenarios, sure.
Harden was dealt because it was basically the last opportunity to deal him. For the A’s to pick up his $7M option this year would’ve been a scary, difficult decision, given his health track record. They traded him for the best package they could get at the time, and the benefit was that they no longer had to make that difficult decision (the option) at the end of the season.
What would Rich Harden be traded for today? Far less even than the haul the A’s received. As such, I don’t think Beane made a bad deal.
Harden was a quickly expiring asset. He was dealt for assets that had a much later expiration date, just as many successful previous A’s have been. I’d argue that’s been an essential part of the A’s small-payroll success.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 13, 2009 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
These are good points ...
I’m just not sure I agree that “it was basically the last opportunity to deal him.” I think had the A’s waited, they may have received a better deal down the road. But that’s pure speculation at this point, obviously.
I will also admit that Harden was/is one of those guys I really, really wanted to work out in Oakland, so I know that has an influence on my opinion, too.
In regard to your comment that he would garner “far less even than the haul the A’s received” were Harden traded today? I guess if you were speaking of July 12, with Harden struggling in Chicago, perhaps you’re right. But the season’s only half over, and I expect him to be much better after the break. I would bet that by the end of the season, the “deal” would look much better than it would today. We shall see.
I also would use the term “haul” very, very loosely. We got lousy players from Chicago. I don’t care if we’d gotten 10 of ‘em, they weren’t very good. Murton is horrible and now gone. Gallagher was horrible and now gone. Patterson is a AAAA player who will never be more than a major-league backup. Donaldson we have hopes for — jury’s still out. But let’s not make it sound as if this trade was like the Haren/Arizona deal. It wasn’t. Not even close.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not even close
mostly because Haren, with his improvement every year, health record and contract situation was an asset that blew Harden’s value away on all the same counts. What was being dealt was, as you put it, not even close.
by juanmiguel on Jul 13, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I agree with you ...
It’s just that some people think that because we got four — count ‘em! — four players back from Chicago, this means it was some sort of Brinks heist. It wasn’t … like I said, it doesn’t matter if we got ten players back … if they all suck, it was a bad deal.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
yeah, that makes sense. I do admit that it has been frustrating sometimes to see Beane trade a good piece for a bunch of meh pieces. As if quantity made up for the lack. I remember thinking, “Murton? What in the hell do we need Murton for?”
But I probably felt the same way when Kielty and Scutaro came in and they turned out to be valuable extra pieces on a 2006 playoff team.
by juanmiguel on Jul 13, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who's saying that?
sounds like a strawman to me. gallagher was a big asset, and was used as one now. donaldson is a big asset. patterson is a decent asset. i didn’t love the trade at the time, but it looks okay to me now.
by Elston Gunn on Jul 13, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I recall...
I said this last year and everyone jumped down my throat. I will agree that I was a bit hasty in my projection of the trade a failure. I still think that we could have gotten more last year, and that what we got had serious questions from the start. The whole trade was built on resurrecting Donaldson which has somewhat worked and that Gallagher was supposed to be a shot at a 2 with a guaranteed 4. Clearly that one missed HUGE. Hopefully, the other two trades perform better and make up for this gaff in the same manner the Mulder trade made up for the Hudson one. Otherwise we will be in the woods for a long stretch.
by jasonlbe on Jul 14, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad deal?
I think there is a tendency as fans to use hindsight as a judge of deals. The Harden deal never looked outstanding, but there were a lot of “we can’t judge this for another year or so” type comments about it. It was a huge gamble of a deal…both in the unknown of how Harden was going to pitch (and stay healthy) moving forward AND in how Gallagher was going to develop.
This isn’t a defense of Beane nor a disagreement with you VF, but I just wish we had a way of talking about deals that separated the deal, based on the merits of all of the information available at the time of the deal; and the result, based on hindsight and looking back on what happened. Anyone watching the world series of poker wouldn’t call out a player for playing the right odds and then losing when the last card is flipped.
I remember the week of the Huddy-Mulder trades. I think at the time people were more excited about Meyer and Thomas than they were about Haren and Barton. I personally think they were both good deals, but now we can see that in terms of results, one of the deals was a complete flop while the other one might be the most important reason that we can be competitive in 2010,11,12.
by juanmiguel on Jul 13, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point.
I’m just not sure how we judge a trade if we don’t use hindsight.
By the way, I don’t expect Beane to bat .1000. We’re gonna “lose” once in awhile — like you said, there’s just no way to know what the future holds when we make a deal.
I just don’t have a problem saying, “Yup, we got taken to the cleaners on that one,” when it happens.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you have to continue to judge value
You can’t just say Gallagher “crashed and burned” by ignoring that he was just traded for a valuable player. I know you want to judge each trade separately but you can’t just close your eyes and plug your ears and pretend Gallagher was worthless when it is fact that he wasn’t. If you don’t want to consider Hairston as part of the return from Harden that’s fine but you have to at least concede that Gallagher is equally valuable to Hairston because that is what the market has shown.
by DiegoAsFan on Jul 13, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I see what you're saying
smokelanda says basically the same thing below.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how is Gallagher of equal value to Hairston
when two other players were included by Oakland? So no, he doesn’t have to concede that.
by Cutthemullet on Jul 13, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, okay we can forget the main point and focus on semantics
Yes, your right Hairston is apparently worth two marginal C+ prospects more than Gallagher in the market.
The point still stands, you can’t just ignore his trade value and declare him a bust or worthless.
by DiegoAsFan on Jul 13, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
we’re gonna talk about it using the entire timeline after the fact. We use the word “follow” for a reason when we talk about a team. We follow the history and reflect on how things worked out over time. But in the way that we talk about it, there usually doesn’t seem to be a distinction between the judgment of the deal and the judgment of the result. This is what frustrates me sometimes. You would never hear someone say: That Hudson deal was great but the results were a flop. You only hear: That deal sucked!
I guess an occasion you might hear someone pull out a comment with all sorts of qualifiers like: AT THE TIME it SEEMED like MAYBE this deal was going to be okay, but GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT, I have no alternative but to conclude that my GM was a complete idiot on this one.
by juanmiguel on Jul 13, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I want to be able to yell
“I KNEW THAT DEAL SUCKED FROM THE BEGINNING! SEE? I SHOULD BE RUNNING THIS TEAM!”
In the privacy of my own home, I am the perfect GM. :-)
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
blog = perfect
well, then all you have to do is comment on a trade that sucks at the beginning so that when it doesn’t work out, you can pull up the archived link and throw it in everyone’s faces.
Another strategy is to hedge your bets and react negatively to EVERYTHING so that when ANYTHING doesn’t work out, you can summon the comment and prove to everyone how smart you are.
by juanmiguel on Jul 13, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: using the entire timeline after the fact
That’s precisely how a trade should be analyzed. Essentially, we’re talking about two different metrics—the one you use to make a business decision, and the one you use to evaluate its success.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 13, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, one evaluates process and the other evaluates outcome
The question is how much of each should be used when evaluating a GM?
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bits and pieces of each.
And if you’re doing that, you will find that Beane’s process has been pretty damn good, and the outcome has been one of the teams in baseball with the most wins in the last decade.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree though I didn't like the process on the Hudson or Harden deals.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't expect him to bat 1.000
But I’d hope he could at least do .100 ;-)
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jul 13, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes and no
I completely agree that the Harden trade didn’t turn out so well for us. I think one would have a hard time denying that Gallagher was the central piece in the trade and that Billy was hoping for a lot more from Gallagher than what he turned out to be.
That said, you of course exaggerate when you say the Cubs got Harden for “basically nothing”. The package may have turned out to be quite a bit less than Beane thought he was getting, but it’s still much more than nothing.
I would also add, kudos to Beane for cutting his losses and moving on. When you characterize the Hairston trade as “admitting” that the Harden trade was a failure, you make it sound like the current trade is the mistake. It’s not. Everything you say about the (relative) failure of the Harden trade was already the case before the Hairston trade was done. The Hairston trade did not sink Gallagher’s value; it just acknowledged that it had already sunk.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What alternatives did the cubs have with Gallagher?
He was not a pitcher that was going to get them to the playoffs in 2008. So they either could stay put, or trade for another pitcher.
by Future Ed on Jul 13, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What alternatives did the A's have for Gallagher?
His velocity was off, he seemed to be a head case, and he’d fallen pretty far behind on the depth chart. When you have an extra piece and you have a chance to move him for someone of value, you do it. The Cubs needed a quality starter to get over the hump, so they traded a future starter. The A’s needed more oomph at the plate, so they traded away someone they were going to trade anyway.
by richwol1 on Jul 13, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your last point
Cutting bait on prospects you use to covet is very hard. Sickles says his greatest weakness is sticking with prospects he use to like when the signs turn against them.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The key is not to get stuck in the middle
Fundamentally, that’s what upsets people about the A’s’ treatment of Buck. Give him a shot here or send him somewhere else. If they’ve made up their mind about him, act on that conclusion.
To Beane’s credit, they made up their mind about Gallagher and acted on it pretty quickly.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 13, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very well put.
PS – I never exaggerate! lol
Man, sometimes I go back and read my own posts, and I’m really embarassed.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I also agree with dfa ...
I think the reason I’m so pissed Gallagher is gone, is because I figure the A’s oughta stick with him come hell or high water at this point.
Like, “If we traded Harden for you, then you’re gonna be successful here whether you like it or not, and I don’t care how long we have to wait!!!”
Stupid? Probably … but it’s the principle of the thing! :-)
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That principle only applies when
you sign your star third baseman for a $66 million contract.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In doing so,
you’re seriously overstating the trade value of Rich Harden. Yes he was talented, but “injury-prone” so understates the case when it comes to Harden that several readers are snickering right now. Yes, he was good when he was healthy, but you can’t keep suffering injury after injury and not have it affect your performance. Based on what’s happening in Chicago, I think the inevitable decline has come rather suddenly, and don’t think the Cubs weren’t aware of the risk of that when they made the trade.
by Nate on Jul 14, 2009 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I guess you don't
want one of those “for those keeping score at home” posts about how we turned Majewski and Harden into Donaldson, Patterson and Hairston.
by juanmiguel on Jul 13, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
I know I’ve beaten this poor horse to death, but I’ll do it one more time. We traded Harden and Gaudin for Gallagher, Murton, Patterson, and Donaldson. We did not receive Hairston and Wimberly in this deal. It drives me crazy that people keep acting like we did.
Because we were able to make what looks to be good trades in dealing Gallagher for Hairston and Murton for Wimberly, this doesn’t make the original trade with Chicago a good one. We’re talking about three different tranasctions, and each one needs to be evaluated separately.
Let’s say you trade All-Star Joe Schmoe (40 HRs last year – a Ryan Howard type player, just for fun, and he ends up being a great player for another 6 years) for 5 guys. Three of the five are horrible and are out of baseball in about 2 years. One guy travels back and forth from the minors for awhile. The last guy (whom you also don’t like much) you manage to trade for some minor league prospect named Bob Allen. Three years later Bob Allen becomes the same type of player Joe Schmoe is, only younger. Great. But please don’t spin it and tell me the original trade was Joe Schmoe for Bob Allen!!!! It wasn’t. You made a good trade down the road and it worked out. It doesn’t mean the original trade you made was a good one. It wasn’t. It sucked. This “Seven Degrees of Kevin Bacon” stuff when we discuss trades is ridiculous.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok fine.
We traded Harden and Gaudin (currently sporting 2009 ERAs of 5.47 and 5.03) for two guys who didn’t work out, one guy who might, but we’re still not sure yet, and one guy who has such appealing potential that even after an injury and a half-season of total uselessness at the major league level, we were able to flip him for a decent major league hitter.
Happy now?
by Nate on Jul 13, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better. :-)
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way
We traded Hudson and Mulder, who I think we can agree in 2004 had quite a lot more value in trade than Harden and Gaudin did in 2008, for six guys, only two of whom worked out on the ML level for us, (and one of those two was just Calero’s 2 good seasons out of the pen). That’s how it goes with prospects. Some don’t work.
by Nate on Jul 13, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I really love those visual posts
But I see it more as a history project rather than an evaluate my GM project.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally
just looking at the Mark McGwire for Jack Hannahan slide proves that it is no evaluative tool. It doesn’t account for all the circumstances, the years that any given player gave to the organization, or the $ involved in any movements of players.
But gosh darn can one spoil away an afternoon looking through those with some bourbon and blitzen trapper.
by juanmiguel on Jul 13, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen on the last part
I just don’t think tool Big Mac for Hannahan tells me anything.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet you a box of Wheaties that Beane would have traded
Harden for Hairston, straight up, in a heart-beat. Maybe you forgot: Harden is a highly injury prone head case that only pitches about 100 innings a year, if he’s lucky. Hairston is an everyday center fielder, middle of the order threat that Beane has been enamored with for years.
by smokelanda on Jul 13, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I could've handled that ...
that’s a good point, too.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
can it be the box with Michael Phelps taking bong rips on the front?
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“every trade should be evaluated on its own merits”
um you ever heard of getting players simply to flip them? Piazza the Marlin, Byrnes the Rockie, Cunningham the D-Back etc
Say BB wants a player but the other GM wants something he’s not comfortable with trading from his own organization, he’s going to go out and get a guy simply to flip.
by PL78 on Jul 13, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying it never happens ...
but I’m certain Beane didn’t plan on “flipping” Gallagher. He thought/hoped Gallagher would be a solid starter for us for several seasons, at least.
Beane was wrong. He over-valued the guy … hey, it happens.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 13, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I understand your logic and agree with it to an extent
but does that mean we have to sink or swim with Gallagher just because he was the “must have” player. Had we stuck with Gallagher and he continued to suck, then where would we be? Somewhere complaining about the Harden trade. At least we got something out of the remnants of Rich Harden.
Hell, as bad as both Harden and Cubs offense has been, a lot of Cubs fans would have probably done Harden for Hairston last week and worried about how they’ll fill Harden’s weekly 5 IP later.
http://www.myspace.com/ryanmac10
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 13, 2009 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a gallagher fan
I think he’ s chad gaudin part II, but barely 1 yrafter the trade and they give up on him. In the big picture the A’s still have a ton of pitching depth. Honestly, i wouldve given up gallagher + for a chase headley type if possible. I dont think much of webb/italiano, but for 2+ seasons of hairston they were willing to give up the 3 pitchers. Now lets see what they do with holliday/springer/cabrera/akennedy etc trades.
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 12, 2009 11:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hi, first post.
At the risk of going against the grain, I’m totally fine with this. Gallagher really only had one pretty good start with the A’s – his first – and IIRC he was hit pretty hard even then, recording more than a couple outs on balls sent to the warning track.
He was injured twice towards the end of 2008, and again IIRC, his velocity was down prior to both trips to the DL. In spring training this year his velocity was once again in the 80s, even before he got sick. Obviously he was pitching well in Sacramento for a while there, but I don’t recall his velocity ever getting back up to 95 with the big club.
One could point out that Gallagher, as a 23 year old, has plenty of time to develop. This may be true, especially considering the movement on his curve, but at the same time, there are few pitchers who make it to MLB at 21, and plenty more who flame out in the minors before most of us have heard of them.
Part of the reason so many pitchers lose it in their late teens/early twenties is because, despite having the ability to throw a few pitches well, they have never had to repeat this over 100-200 innings – there is an issue of endurance. And this is all the more true of a HS draftee like Gallagher – he hasn’t demonstrated the ability to withstand the gruel that belongs to the ace of a play-off bound college team. In 2006 he threw 164 innings and seemed poised for the big league success upon which so many have speculated. Since then he has scarcely managed above 100 IP. His sub-2.00 ERA this year in Sacto was over roughly 20 innings, making it basically meaningless.
I find it all the more troubling when a pitcher’s problem is an unexplained drop in velocity. On the one hand, a pitcher could blow up his shoulder and be done for good – this is assuredly a worse situation to be in than Gallagher’s. On the other hand, a pitcher could require TJ surgery and be out for 18 months, but at least you know that when he comes back he’ll probably be okay. That Gallagher’s velocity issues don’t have an obvious medical explanation – he seems to think he’s throwing alright – is worrying. Most of the time when a pitcher loses speed, its not coming back, and very few of these are able to replace their speed with stuff, with the exceptions tending to be near-HoF calliber veterans.
Meanwhile Hairston could very well turn out to be 2004-05 Kotsay, minus the superlative defense. He’s no star, but he’s better than what a lot of the competition is rolling out. Considering 2010 looks to be another year of hoping to get lucky in a weak division, I like how Hairston improves the CF position while making the need for Brown/Desme to arrive a little less dire. Also he’s healthy.
Its a mystery to me why the A’s would slide a sub-700 OPS guy over into RF to make room for Hairston – Buck and Cunningham are both better hitters – but I’m pretty sure I’m preaching to the choir on this one.
All in all, the A’s dealt from a position of strength to address a weakness, and I would say they made good on a team desperate to unload salary. Trading good minor leaguers for big league talent is always going to be part of any rebuilding effort that doesn’t proceed at a Tampa-esque pace, and its my opinion Gallagher was a risky enough prospect in the first place to make this trade very reasonable.
by Aufheben on Jul 12, 2009 11:42 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Well said
And welcome.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jul 12, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me echo the welcome...Very astute post.
Im much higher on Hariston’s defense than you. Plus UZR had Kotsay as a below average defender every year with the A’s after 2004.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my hope is
they’re letting Cunningham/Buck get their confidence up. Then in 2010, we have an OF of Cunningham/Hairston/Buck with Sweeney as the 4th OF and Rajai seeking gainful employment elsewhere.
by buddahead9 on Jul 13, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi. Welcome. Great post.
Trading good minor leaguers for big league talent is always going to be part of any rebuilding effort that doesn’t proceed at a Tampa-esque pace, and its my opinion Gallagher was a risky enough prospect in the first place to make this trade very reasonable.
This is huge. Exactly. Prospects have to be traded for vets, and trading them for vets who happen to play premium positions of need is a good thing. A Cunningham-Hairston-Buck OF can put up good offensive numbers, and be an elite defensive OF.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 6:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nicely said
And welcome to AN. Hopefully you’ll hang around and post some more.
There's no crying in baseball!
by gigglingone on Jul 13, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes! take the risk!
of going against the grain. You’ll have more fun here.
by juanmiguel on Jul 13, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"selling low"
We won’t really know if we sold low on Gallagher for another few years. If he needs TJ in six months, or just never puts it together mechanically, then we sold high.
On another note:
It was smart of the A’s to send him down when he didn’t look right in the first few weeks. At least he hasn’t been burning major league service time while injured. Even if his injury is more serious than we know, it’s less of an issue to the Padres when they know they can simply re-hab him for $40K in the minor leagues and not burn his service time.
The Pads would’ve been loathe to risk losing a valuable pre-arb year while he re-habbed something serious.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 12, 2009 11:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is an important point as well
For all the (appropriate) complaining about the health of this team around these parts, I’m kinda shocked at the reaction to this trade. It’s only selling low if Gallagher ever gets his health in order AND pitches well. t’s completely fleecing Kevin Towers for a real, honest to goodness, major league hitter if he doesn’t. I mean, even if/when he gets healthy, he may not be the same pitcher we saw in that first start. He wouldn’t be the first pitcher to lose his stuff to injuries, and he sure as hell wouldn’t be the last.
Again, there are plenty of reasons to like Sean Gallagher, but health issues, especially for a pitcher, are a major red flag in my book. And it’s not like Beane just gave him away, Scott Hairston has hit pretty damn well for a solid stretch of time now.
Outman, fighter of the Hitman, champion of the K, he's a master of scoreless innings and friendship for everyone.
by walk off bunt on Jul 12, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We still sold low on Gallagher
but he
could end up
so very much
lower
As long as Gallagher continues success at AAA (seems likely), then as time goes on people will write off his first big league experience and his stock will rise. There’s a good possibility we didn’t fully milk Gallagher as a trade trip. However, if you’re a believer that Gallagher doesn’t put it together at the ML level (seem likely as well), then you have to jump at the chance to acquire any kind of ML-level talent.
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack
by GoA's on Jul 13, 2009 12:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I really think Hurston could turn out to be the most positive lasting development of the 09
season, from a position player standpoint (although if Holliday sticks around I would renege on that prediction).
That might sound a bit depressing given the expectations coming into this season, but a solid CF is no small shakes, and I think the A’s took care of what had been a long-term black hole up until this point (SS and 3B would be the others). And this team could still have a top-5-in-the-league rotation going forward, Gallagher or not, and with some insurance on the way.
by Aufheben on Jul 13, 2009 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we sign Zora Neale Hurston, I'm outta here
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 13, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hated that book. Had to read it in HS... have spent all morning trying to remember the title.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the plan is to keep Hairston in CF though
From what I understand, they have Sweeney playing in right because he can, whereas Hairston is a CF/LF. With LF taken by Holliday, they put Hairston in CF until Holliday is gone. Once Holliday is out of the picture, Hairston will move to LF and Sweeney will move back to CF. This is what Fosse was saying the other day, anyway. That leaves RF open for all you Travis Buck / Richie Cunningham lovers.
by smokelanda on Jul 13, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweeney is not a full time player IMO.
He hasn’t improved on his one flaw, and that’s hitting LHP.
He’s a major liability against lefties, and depending on what Buck and Cunningham can do in extended PT (if they get it), they are really likely to displace Sweeney out of his OF spot, especially since Hairston can play CF.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or his other flaw
Which is getting base hits that are not singles.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 13, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think sweeney could be a really good platoon outfielder with his excellent corner d and okay cf d.
i don’t see any reason that there aren’t enough abs for hairston, cunningham, buck and sweeney all to get 500+.
by Elston Gunn on Jul 13, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we traded Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin for Scott Hairston, Josh Donaldson, Eric Patterson & Corey Wimberly?
uhh WIN???
by PL78 on Jul 13, 2009 12:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
(and Murton)
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murton was flipped for Wimberly, remember?
by PL78 on Jul 13, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time will tell
Did the A’s buy high on Hairston? Maybe.
Did they sell low on Gallagher? Maybe.
Did the team tighten the market on available outfielders that may drive up the price for Holliday (if he’s traded)? Probably.
I admit to lacking much excitement about Gallagher because he almost always stunk whenever I saw him. But as others have said, he’s still young.
by bear88 on Jul 13, 2009 12:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think this is still a good trade for the A's
We want two strong prospects for Holliday, probably in the B+ and B- range respectively. While Holliday has had a much better career, Hariston’s inexpensiveness,. ability to play center, and longer level of control make up much of that. We gave up a player who’s service time kept him from being a B/B- level prospect, a C+ and a C. That is a good trade for two years of Hariston.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 12:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
not to quibble
but it’s actually ‘Hairston’
by harenshair on Jul 13, 2009 2:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Im a terrible speller,,, slightly dislexic
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes I rush in my typing so don't worry, your not alone!!!
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a couple of things you can expect of my time here
1 aggressive debate of what I believe
2 very long fan posts
3 terrible spelling
Those aren’t going to change.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
me tow!
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jul 13, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Hairston grew up with everybody misspelling his name the same way we do here.
If so, I feel sorry for the guy. Hahaha.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
by Boonee on Jul 13, 2009 12:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I frown because the A's gave up a guy with high upside for a late-blooming role player
I smirk because there’s plenty more where that pitcher came from.
Hopefully, this trade works out great for both sides.
by Joey C. on Jul 13, 2009 12:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The A's need to do several more deals like this to get off the bottom of the A.L. in almost all offensive catagorys.
Good Free Agents are not going to come to play at the coliseum.
With Billy’s draft history of not developing (and keeping) good hitting talent from within, all he can do is trade for good talent.
Without giving up a major league pitcher we improved a major need considerably.
For some reason the A’s are good at noticing power talent (Pena, Ludwick, Cruz, kindof Ethier and Scuturo) that develops several + years and/or several teams after they would be usefull or traded from the A’s.
by OmahaHi on Jul 13, 2009 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would definitely like to see more deals made
I just hope that Billy can make more out of the A’s’ pitching depth than 29-year-olds having career seasons.
I don’t dislike this trade. I just wish I liked it more.
by Joey C. on Jul 13, 2009 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
guess we watched different games
i saw a guy who got some K’s but if not for the fact that it was a night game in Oakland would have given up 4 HR’s. there were many well hit balls that were caught.
if he had backed up the first game with a few strong outings, i would have dismissed the fact that there were so many well hit balls in the game as a fluke. sadly Gallagher showed that the flashes of dominance were the flukey part of that first start.
by cvdoug on Jul 13, 2009 2:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not suprised
It had to be Gallagher and there was no way it was going to be Eveland so this news is not shocking at all to me. I liked Gallagher a lot and felt that he wasn’t given a fair shot this season but oh well. If everything works out well for us we’re still at least 6 pitchers deep in Braden, Outman, Cahill, Anderson, Mazzaro, and Gio but it sure would’ve been nice to have a power arm like Gallagher sitting around. If nothing else he could probably become a very useful late-inning reliever.
Here’s hoping Hairston is productive and not a dud like Holliday.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jul 13, 2009 2:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
IMO this is a decent trade for us, I like.
Oakland vs LHP 2009: .629 OPS – Yech
Hairston vs LHP 2009: 1.102 OPS.
Hairston at CF = decent
Hairston at LF = excellent
Need addressed – check
Gallagher = talented but injury prone.
Other two guys = lottery tickets.
Even if Gallagher becomes a good regular SP, this is still an acceptable trade to me.
If he stagnates as “raggedy DL yo-yo” then kudos to Billy.
Is this the real life-
Is this just fantasy-
Caught in a landslide-
No escape from reality-
by Daniel777 on Jul 13, 2009 2:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
not a fan of this move at all...
What the heck is going on in the front office??? Every transaction in the past year has left me shaking my head.
by LVElephant on Jul 13, 2009 5:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I would me more compelled to agree
If I knew what your reasoning was
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jul 13, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade is win-win IMO
He’s a passable defender in CF and isn’t a platoon player, ala Sweeney. He’s controlled for multiple years (I think 2.5)
Hairston wOBA+ last 3 years
2007: 127
2008: 107
2009: ~120
A 107 wOBA+ with average defense in CF is a valuable player.
I like Gallagher a lot but in any other economic situation, Hairston commands more than Gallagher and two fringe prospects. And the A’s pitching is still freaking deep.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 6:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
good stuff as usual...
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this 100%
but I think his defense will surprise us and be like 5 FRAA
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked Gallagher and am ok with the trade, and I'm a little surprised at many of the responses here.
THIS TEAM NEEDS HITTING!!! We were/are at a point that we needed to give up something of (potential) value to get something of value. Signing more AAAA hitters obviously wasn’t working. How many 3-1 losses are you people willing to endure?
Besides, one of the commonly mentioned benefits to stockpiling good arms is that they can be traded for hitters later on, if necessary… and that’s what we did. This one deal alone does not solve the hitting woes, obviously, but it’s a step in the right direction.
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Jul 13, 2009 6:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Gallagher just has amazing stuff....thats why everyone is just a bit upset with the trade.
Its a fair deal for both sides and I like scotty…plus we need hitting period. We have plenty of pitching. Its just that Gallagher has amazing stuff IF he can put it all together is the real question.
by ryanmoser on Jul 13, 2009 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think that is one of the downsides to stockpiling arms
in that you possibly value them less. “Need a stud SP prospect in this trade?…..sure, take Gallagher here, he’s 7th on our depth chart”
by faninphilly on Jul 13, 2009 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if stockpiling arms is a bad thing,
then it’s a good that we’re starting to un-stockpile them, isn’t it?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never heard that POV, but it's an interesting take.
I would think that keeping "extra"* stud arms would only work if your offense were also worthy. In our case, it’s not, and we have way too many gaping holes that need addressing.
- There is no such thing as “extra” pitching, of course. LOL!
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Jul 13, 2009 7:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This was meant to be under faninphilly's comment.
I hate replying at the end of a thread. Argh!
In 2008 I was watching a team that was rebuilding. In 2009 I feel like I'm watching a team that just sucks.
by UncleLeo on Jul 13, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Hairston continues his hitting improvement
and works hard at getting better everyday and contributing to our lineup!
I don’t know if he is suited for hitting in the 3 hole, but given what Beane has compiled we may just have to hope for the best?
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 7:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How long before Eveland is sent down to Midland????
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was already sent down to Sacramento
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have skipped Sac-town...
and went straight to Midland!!!
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To get you have to give
The A’s need hitting. They got a slightly below average outfielder who can play now. They gave up a young arm not ready for the major leagues with a very hittable fastball even when it was in the 90s. In the end, the A’s traded Harden (that’s how they got Gallagher) for Hairston. I’d say that’s more or less an even up purpose trade.
by rovingralph on Jul 13, 2009 8:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you need to change below to above in the sentence above.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So to recap
gallagher/smith traded
outman TJ surgery
Fautino de Los Santos TJ surgery
eveland AAA/mlb shuttle…sucks
gio mlb growing pains
anderson
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 13, 2009 8:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Braden doing grrrrrrrrrrreat...
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we get a buy one, get one free deal on the TJ surgeries?
Or is it buy five and the sixth is free?
Just wondering….
There's no crying in baseball!
by gigglingone on Jul 13, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's buy 5, then the 6th is free, I'll take one for the team ...
if we can use the freebie to knock Eveland out until 2011.
I could probably rehab & be back for September call-ups 2010. Just a thought.
http://www.myspace.com/ryanmac10
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 13, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson should still be good, amirite?
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Jul 13, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the trade, because while apparently the A's felt Buck couldn't, getting rid of
Gallagher, got Cust out of RF.
by theblackpearl on Jul 13, 2009 9:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm just happy Crosby isn't the starting SS anymore...
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just glad I found my pants!
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Rich Harden in the off season
and it’s like the Cubs-A’s trade never happened.
"My team is elephants and voted Donkey for President"
by What Would Rickey Do on Jul 13, 2009 9:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok..
5 years $119 million
Thanks Lew…
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Harden gets more than three years
or $40 million, I’ll eat PT’s hat.
by harenshair on Jul 13, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still like the Hairston deal
It puts us much closer to contention. Competing next year doesn’t seem out of the question with an OF of Cunningham/Hairston/Buck- that is pretty solid offensively and defensively. We still have holes at SS and 3B (*crosses fingers for Holliday/Cabrera for Yunel Ecobar trade and Chone Figgins signing) and possibly 1B (although Doolittle might be ready for next year if Barton isn’t), but I actually like the way this roster is shaping up for 2010 and beyond.
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
by FrankCohen on Jul 13, 2009 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets rush Carter at 1B
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of me agrees with this
part of me does not.
Only if it works?
is it ok to say that?
hm.
by bobnothing on Jul 13, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh hell no.
Rushing prospects up is the best way to screw them over.
Now, I want him in AAA, along with Donaldson, but only if that means the A’s are committed to playing Barton in MLB every day at 1B.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Barton continues to struggle
how long of a leash do the A’s need to place on him?
Is Doolottle knocking on the door?
"Where's the beef?"
by MMunoz33 on Jul 13, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give him the rest of this season.
Full time PT at 1B, remainder of season.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, he can't hit/filed worse than
Jason “getting the band back together” Giambi
WTF! How long are we going to play this broken record? How long because of his name and past? He is done, let him go! I would rather see Barton at .220 than Giambi at .195
"Paul Thomas is breaking something somewhere" ~jeepers
by OptimistPrime on Jul 13, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giambi's actually managing a .316 wOBA (.257 EqA)
which, while bad, is pretty amazing considering his .195 batting average. Barton put up a .302 wOBA (.250 EqA) in a full season last year, and hasn’t shown a whole lot of improvement this year.
That said, I agree that Barton needs one final shot to see if he can stick…Doolittle and Carter are breathing down his neck right now.
by harenshair on Jul 13, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im a big Paul Thomas supporter but I don't think anyone could handle PT full time.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am now picturing PT using legal jargon to berate Barton at first base. Quality.
Baseball isn't magic.
by rebus on Jul 13, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who should I contact in the A's FO to try to arrange that... it would be frickin hilarious
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's funny because you guys think he'd talk the way he does online in real life.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my head, just like all of you internet folk, PT exists as a disembodied voice.
I think the fact that he was flesh and blood would trip me up most of all.
Baseball isn't magic.
by rebus on Jul 13, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not really struggling any more
Since the first month or so of the season, he’s been hitting well at AAA.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 13, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barton is no longer struggling.
He’s been absolutely mashing in AAA since being sent back down, and was briefly before being called up.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 13, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WIth Barton's defense
and age, why not let him loose in 2010? as noted carter and or dolittle should be ready sometime later and plugged in. If Barton takes off, like he always has in AAA, great if not, his defense makes it beter than any alternative I can see.
by Future Ed on Jul 13, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me, it's simpler.
It’s hard to imagine a scenario in which Daric Barton wouldn’t be an improvement to the big-league club right now. Letting Giambi play instead is either a combination of hubris/stubbornness, a misguided view that he has to play because of what he’s getting paid, or both.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 13, 2009 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly they think Giambi
on the field is good influence on the others. Possibly they think it’s a good move for marketing. Possibly there’s some other reason we don’t know.
I agree with wanting to see Giambi off the roster. I just object to the assertion that the only possible reasons for putting him in are (a) or (b), just because we’re not aware of whatever ( c), (d), and (e) there may be.
This fallacy is rampant on AN. If one explanation for something is plausible, and we’re not aware of any other plausible explanation, we assume the first explanation must be correct and, in many cases, extrapolate from there. I see this all the time on the trade and payroll discussions.
There is a general lack of appreciation on AN for that which is unknown.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AN
prefers to ignore the unknown unknowns
by Future Ed on Jul 13, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At AN we know what we know
We know what we don’t know.
But we don’t know what we don’t know.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 13, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's probably true, but we don't actually know that.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"There is a general lack of appreciation on AN for that which is unknown."
Wouldn’t that statement be true for humanity in general?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jul 13, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but AN even more so.
If I say Joe Mauer is a good hitter, I suppose you could answer, “Wouldn’t that statement be true for MLB players in general?” Well, yes, I suppose it would.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Possibly they think Giambi on the field is good influence on the others. Possibly they think it’s a good move for marketing."
Problem is, those aren’t really valid reasons to keep a replacement level player on the field.
I agree that there’s plenty of unknown reasons why Giambi is still playing. But can you think (or is there actually) a good reason?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 13, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I suppose it's possible that, resigned to a losing season,
they’ve judged that Barton will not be stunted in his growth and that Giambi could legitimately have a power surge that will recoup some of his value in FA. There must be some value in not releasing your aging vets with every half season of poor play.
Baseball isn't magic.
by rebus on Jul 13, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is that they're waiting till the trade deadline
to see if Giambi would have a hot streak and thus draw some interest from other teams. If not, then I think (hope) Barton will get the 1B job starting in August.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 13, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I think
there’s also the possibility that Beane is just being nice cause he’s got a personal attachment to the guy. Which sadly, is entirely possible.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 13, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who would trade for him?
if he gets obscenely hot, he’s going to be hitting, what, .220? its not like he’s hitting a ton of homers, either. i think we’re stuck with giambi for the year. if he’d only start going the other way, like he said he would, he’d be doing MUCH better. he keeps pulling everything. on another note, i’d kind of like to see giambi as our hitting coach after he retires, hopefully after this year. he can’t catch up to pitches anymore, but the man knows hitting inside out.
by guy incognito on Jul 13, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the two trades that went down in the last three days
Betancourt and Francoeur are two of the worst players in all of baseball. I think they’re both worse than Giambino.
Then add in that Giambi has OMG TRACK RECORD.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think starting the year in AAA seems to have helped Barton
He had the freedom to continue sucking for a month and spend that time refinding his swing in relative obscurity. If he’d had that April in the majors, he would have been under the microscope.
Now, however, might be a different matter.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 13, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's really all you can ask for in life: Freedom to suck.
And no, she didn’t say that so don’t even bother.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 13, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giambi on the field
makes all of the other players feel young, spry, and agile.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 13, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I know he has that effect on *me*.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fair.
It’s awfully hard to imagine an extenuating circumstance about Giambi which is that compelling, though.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 14, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
after 20 putrid games in April,
Barton has hit (by my calculations) .303/.412/.543 over 46 AAA games over the last ten weeks.
by jakarta on Jul 13, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those numbers make me angry.
A .955 OPS? How on earth would Barton not do better than Giambi’s .697?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 13, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And play infinitely better defense regardless?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 13, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, you know, just actually be physically capable of playing the field constantly!
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Carter...not yet
"Paul Thomas is breaking something somewhere" ~jeepers
by OptimistPrime on Jul 13, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
People need to relax, this is still a pretty good deal.
With our young talent, did anybody think that Webb really had a future in the A’s rotation. I’m not saying he isn’t talented, but there are lot of prospects higher up on the food chain. Italiano was a decent relief prospect, but he wasn’t exactly tearing up A+ ball. Two spare parts plus Gallagher (who’s also a question mark) for a cost controlled CF with a good bat? Yes, please.
Hairston, barring injury (knocking on wood) is a bat you can put in the middle of a lineup for the next few years. I really don’t see why people are reacting so harshly to this deal. Even if they think Gallagher did put it together, did anybody really think he’d be more than a #3? Even still, I think it’s definitely a good trade.
by NateHST on Jul 13, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Beane saw #2, maybe even #1 upside. He definitely has #2 stuff at least.
Baseball isn't magic.
by rebus on Jul 13, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of pitchers have #2 stuff
Gallagher, like most of them, has #5 control.
by NateHST on Jul 13, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cuz I was gonna say that Gallagher's control
most definitely resembled number two.
by Nate on Jul 14, 2009 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harden for Patterson and Hairston?
Duh. No brainer. I would pull the trigger on that trade a million times. Harden is/was/and shall always be toast. Always full of promise, never able to fulfill that promise. The A’s would not have re-signed him anyway, we got some value for him, now he rots on someone else’s DL. I like Hairston. He hits for average and we could use some consistent sticks around here. Good job BB!
"Paul Thomas is breaking something somewhere" ~jeepers
by OptimistPrime on Jul 13, 2009 10:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And Josh Donaldson!
Catching prospects are rather scarce nowadays, especially those who are likely to stick at C.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Josh Donaldson, thank you Blicks! We make that trade all day long
Good turn of events I say
"Paul Thomas is breaking something somewhere" ~jeepers
by OptimistPrime on Jul 13, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait for the A's to have a large share of the young, good catching
along with the pitching market, which they somewhat do now (they will establish their dominance this offseason, when the pitching FA market sucks and very few teams have young pitching - sorry, I’m not a believer in Boston’s pitching depth after they wave goodbye to Penny and Smoltz).
Zooks is a catching elite, Powell as your backup is pretty damn good, Donaldson is probably behind only Wieters, Santana, Salome, and Salty/Teagarden in terms of catching prospects, excluding anyone drafted in ’09, and Max Stassi and maybe Ryan Ortiz (maybe, this might be a pipe dream, but both Andy Seiler and John Sickels liked the pick).
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Youre forgetting Paramore who might turn out to be pretty good.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 13, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about him.
He’s not getting traded though.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 14, 2009 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tim Lincecum Named All-Star Starter
Sabean should trade him in the off-season for prospects.
Get Them B4 They Get You!
by FurVault on Jul 13, 2009 10:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
or Alex Rios.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
:-)
can you imagine what the al east would be like if that had happened…
by Elston Gunn on Jul 13, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Haren got screwed.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 13, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Screwed is not the word, but yeah, he should be the starter...
by Pucking Insane on Jul 13, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haren would have been a good call,
but Lincecum is hardly a bad one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 13, 2009 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that's what I was implying?
by Pucking Insane on Jul 13, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I was agreeing?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 13, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad, listening to Joe Morgan not pick on Berman's sarcasm messed w/ my head.
Delayed comment of the night, if I may say.
by Pucking Insane on Jul 14, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the trade
I hated to lose Harden but could easily admit to friends last year that he was only as valuable as his nice long injury free 1st half in 2008. We traded him at the optimal time – he had a great 1st half and stayed off the DL. I was VERY disappointed in the return players in the trade, even not knowing them much. Watching SG go downhill last year and fail to get off the blocks this year really made me start to miss Harden, but as expected his injuries popped back up and its still a solid trade now based on Harden’s health alone.
I was surprised to see BB bring in an OF with such a traffic jam out there now, but any ability to bring Cust off the field is a + to me, and this certainly assures that Holliday will be gone by the end of this month, or at least the end of the season… either way we have a solid hitting and fielding OF captain for next year. I for one love Sweeney in center so I’d like to see Hairston over in LF once Holliday is gone. Anyone think about Buck playing center against LH pitchers? Just throwing that out there- with his speed I think he could be a great CF.
Now with Hannahan gone and Chavez “done” – can Kennedy be a full time 3b? With his bat it seems they need him in the lineup- maybe Ellis will be sent off with Holliday for a 3b? Love Ellis but his bat is rarely anything worth talking about.
Just floating some ideas out there…
I miss Eric Plunk
by chuckcheeze on Jul 13, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh ya and wouldn't it be funny to have
Haren Harden and Hairston on the same team?
Maybe along with Hannahan and Hanrahan?
Throw in Molina, Molina and Molina while you are at it, I suppose.
I miss Eric Plunk
by chuckcheeze on Jul 13, 2009 11:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I stand by my original assessment.
Trade is a straight A if the PBTNL was Eveland, and a B+ if Gallagher.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 13, 2009 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey Manny Acta just got fired
Maybe we can hire him… I like the guy
I miss Eric Plunk
by chuckcheeze on Jul 13, 2009 11:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Beane confirmed Geren's job is still safe in the Slusser interview
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jul 13, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Posturization.
You NEVER tell the media someone’s job is on the line. Never.
That’s the best way to garner negative PR for the A’s, talking crap about someone who’s currently employed by your organization in public.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless you are in middle management on the south side of Chicago
by Future Ed on Jul 13, 2009 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Ozzie Guillen?
Eh. Ozzie gets a free pass because its freaking hilarious.
Kenny doesn’t though if he bends down to Ozzie’s every whim and forgets that he’s a GM and not a yes man.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sound familiar?
From the Associated Press:
‘’The only problem with our team is that there’s not that sense of urgency to win,‘’ Zimmerman said. ’’I think we’re better than what we’ve shown. Maybe this will wake some people up.
‘’Some people there are so used to losing they don’t have that fire to win. I think there needs to be accountability and some responsibility taken. We have the built-in excuse of being young, but we’re not that young anymore.’’
Yet Acta always remained upbeat, preaching patience and emphasizing the importance of keeping an even keel — so much so that some wondered whether he needed to show more fire and perhaps be more critical publicly when his players made mistakes.
by richwol1 on Jul 13, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.
I also think that after Bowden left, there’s a major rift between some of the vets he brought in and management. I know there’s been some issues with Adam Dunn.
‘’Some people there are so used to losing they don’t have that fire to win. I think there needs to be accountability and some responsibility taken. We have the built-in excuse of being young, but we’re not that young anymore.’’
They have the second youngest rotation in MLB (its obvious who’s #1). The problem is very obviously defense, as their rotation isn’t that bad.
It’s the vets Bowden brought in that’s the problem. They’re the ones not performing and they’re the ones who need to be cast off. That whole team needs to be purged.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's easy to see why there's a rift with Adam Dunn and new management
When your most talented player is 15 pounds overweight, a horrible baserunner, and the worst defender in the league at both positions he “plays” it doesn’t send a very good message.
Baserunning and adequate defense mostly come down to copious practice and concentration. The fact that Dunn is still horrible at both after 10+ years as a professional baseball player represents, I would argue, a character flaw. He could be better at those skills if he would work harder at them.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 13, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've learned this the hard way in my coaching experience:
people will find flaws in a .300 winning percentage regardless of how you did. :)
Acta was extremely positive, and was fired in order to bring in someone who can throw a chair here and there and create that “fire to win.”
If he had been a screamer, he would’ve been fired in order to bring in a “patient teacher who can help nuture and build their young core.”
But ultimately, you can’t shine shit. He’ll get another chance somewhere.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 13, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd really like him in Oakland.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hire him NOW.
He didn’t fit in in Washington, but he can’t be worse than Geren.
And, FJM loved this guy. That’s always a good thing.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 13, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. I would have MUCH rather seen Acta, Wash, or Hillman instead of Geren.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I view all the mlb ready sp's with certain issues
gallagher/eveland/gio/simmons etc are #3 types at best to back rotation. And thats all they need to be if the other pitchers are as good as we expect. Plus hopefully a healthy DLS/Outman at some point next yr.
Add in some solid/decent sp prospects like godfrey/banwart/fernandez/hernandez/ross/capra/hornbeck etc plus more in kane county. A’s still have more pitching that most mlb teams.
So trading away chad gaudin part II and 2 filler relievers isnt a terrible deal. Here’s some perspective, padres are excited because they dont have much pitching depth and they lack a gallagher/italiano/webb
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 13, 2009 11:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is BS...Billy lied to me
I want out of this organization!
/Brad Halsey
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
by carp on Jul 13, 2009 12:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I know many people..
are saying that you can’t say that we essentially traded Harden for Hairston, but technically we did.
Having be an avid Craiglister, i from time to time acquire things that have value (and don’t necessarily need), which i know i can in turn around later and sell at a much higher price. Having this sort of mentality promotes leveraging perceived high cost (lowly acquired) to possibly get something that you want, that may not be discounted much.
I’m not saying Beane is some internet thrift shopper, but i think he understands the business mentality to buy low as possible for potential assets that can be use for later trades. A player of Hairston’s talent wasn’t going to be discounted much if at all, seeing position he plays, bats right, is young, and affordable. As someone else rationalized, there was no way SD was going to give up Hairston for Harden, but Oakland wouldn’t definitely do it.
Now as far as the actual trade goes, besides that first start against the Angels, Gallaghers value was plummeting fast everytime he took the mound. I think we did well, even if we threw in the Webb and Italiano…
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 1:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So what you are saying is..
that you have a ton of junk in your garage that you don’t actually want, and potentially nobody else ever will either?
Well, yes, I think your comparison is exactly like what the A’s are doing ;-)
I miss Eric Plunk
by chuckcheeze on Jul 13, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you define junk
as things i purchase for $50-$100, then sell or barter for value of $400-$500, then yes…you’re absolutely correct.
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh don't be so serious and defensive!
I was slamming the A’s not you…
I miss Eric Plunk
by chuckcheeze on Jul 13, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you should check in the mirror,
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you should check the back patio.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish i had one...
i have a front one though?
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fine too.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing there...
just more craiglist junk …. :-X
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ack hit post too fast..
but i thought i was being just cordial, not serious.
And i strongly believe Beane has the same Craigslist mentality….
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so.
At least, not in the sense that Beane specifically acquires players soley to spin them off for more valuable players.
What I do think is that Beane will NEVER make a player truly untouchable. I think we all saw that when both Haren and Swisher were traded, as both guys were in their mid 20s and signed to very favorable team friendly deals. If the opportunity arises for player X to be traded in return for a good value, it will be taken.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree on both accounts
I think Beane acquire assets and is not afraid to upgrade them, if circumstances (injury, necessity, opportunity, etc.) arise.
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget...
Gallagher was never projected to be an ace or even a good #2 and we all knew that.
He was the 81st rated prospect 2 yrs ago. A’s liked him because he was 22/23, mlb ready, and not harden. Considered a good chance to be a HEALTHY, mid rotation work horse. Unfortunately injuries, control issues prevented him from reaching that upside.
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 13, 2009 1:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Um... the 81st rated prospect is a pretty damn good prospect.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So how is Hairston rated amongst OF?
Keeping in mind positional value?
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year? Pretty good, I think.
My point was a guy in the Top 100 prospects is projected to be pretty damn good.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You overstate.
It’s not true that nobody thought Gallagher would be a good #2. Some did, especially around end of last July, when the initial shock of the trade had faded.
Here is an exchange where BlameChannel53 and Paul Thomas debate whether Gallagher is a #2 or a #3. Here is another one. Several other conversations can be found by searching the archives.
I’m not saying everyone thought Gallagher was a #2. Most did not. But some did, and several suggested anywhere from #2 to #4.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well i think it everything went right maybe he's a #2 on the high end
he seemed to be a solid bet , most likely being closer to a 3/4 which is still good, but not irreplaceable. its obvious since then his value has regressed w/ injuries, front office issues, etc. I put gallagher better than eveland/simmons, but not as good as the cahill/anderson/mazzaro trio.
by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 13, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im on board with not liking this trade.
Hariston is only under control for 2 more years. We woulda had Gallagher for 5. I just dont think Hariston is that much of an upgrade over Buck/Cunningham to be worth 5 years of a #2-4 starter. Gallagher never really got a fair shake in Oakland due to injury. Outside of the first half or this year Hariston was never anything special. So Im not 100% sold on him. Hes 29 so he prob wont improve much and will start to get expensive fast.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jul 13, 2009 2:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Gallagher still has the potential to be a solid starter in this league and is far from his ceiling. Hairston is nothing more than a 10-15 homer guy who should probably only be starting against lefties but on our enemic team he’s a “superstar” like Jack Cust.
In three years this will come back to bite us. Hairston will be gone and Gallagher will be a solid starter imo.
McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there
by streetisclosedin08 on Jul 13, 2009 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting bit
In three years this will come back to bite us. Hairston will be gone and Gallagher will be a solid starter imo.
As opposed to right now, when Hairston is a solid starter and Gallagher hasn’t been diddly-squat.
So take your pick. Do you want to get bit three years from now, or do you want to keep getting chewed up right now?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious..
if anyone is actually fuming that Carlos Pena is now a formidable hitter…..i think not….
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jul 13, 2009 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You get the occasional smart guy who comes through and acts like Beane is an idiot because he let Pena go.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jul 13, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hairston does nothing for this team right now...this team is built to compete in 2011
or 2012 at the earliest. So when that time comes Hairston probably won’t be a part of this franchise and Gallagher could have been a possible part of the rotation that’s all I’m saying. Hairston is an ok player on a crappy team now so yippee.
McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there
by streetisclosedin08 on Jul 13, 2009 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you subscribe to the philosophy of
“wins don’t matter if you don’t make the playoffs that year”, then I guess you’re right. Under that philosophy this would be a bad deal.
For me, wins are equally important in any season.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 13, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"In three years this will come back to bite us. Hairston will be gone and Gallagher will be a solid starter imo."
Basically my believes as well.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jul 13, 2009 3:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hairston
Harristown
Hariston
Hareston
Harrston
Hiarston
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 13, 2009 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Scott?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jul 13, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should be able to predict these by now
Seems like every time my kids get autographs, those players are gone.
Swisher, Thomas, Blanton, Harden, Gaudin…and the last time the A’s were in Anaheim…Gallagher.
Hopefully this is nothing because, in Anaheim, we also got Cahill, Braden, and Ziggy.
Then again, we also got Holliday.
by easyraider on Jul 13, 2009 4:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Can you make your kids get Davis' signature, please?
Just in case it works.
by Elvez on Jul 13, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s a great trade. The A’s have traded several vets for youngsters…now they’re reversing that a bit once a nice stockpile has developed. Hairston looks to be a pretty solid ballplayer on a team that could use a few. Gallagher et al were one of many “prospects” that may or may not (and likely not) become Jesus on The Rubber.
Now…what to do at 3B is another issue…
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
by carp on Jul 13, 2009 6:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Perfectly OK with this
While we can debate Sean Gallagher’s actual talent and potential, one thing is for certain – he was closer to the bottom of Beane’s list of prized pitching prospects than he was at the top.
We lose Gallagher for someone who could easily, and sadly, be the A’s best hitter in 2010.
And we still have Braden, Anderson, Cahill, Gio, and Mazzaro.
Sounds good to me.
"I am not pleased with myself."
- Leo Tolstoy, after he masturbated.
by The Most Interesting mAN on Jul 13, 2009 6:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree to a point
This team is coming to the realization that it might have to dip into its pitching talent and deal a few players out to ATTEMPT to get some sort of offensive threat. I Liked Gallagher a-lot: but I like many fans, can’t stomach a team with no consistent displays of a strong offense. I understand why Beane made the trade. Whatever Gallagher did to become persona non-grata with the coaching staff didn’t bode well for his future with the team anyway…..
by hishnik on Jul 13, 2009 10:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Conversely, in a fashion anyway, it is also worth considering that
whatever is going on between the coaching staff and some of the young, talented players might not bode well for the future of the team… Gonzalez, Carlos; Gallagher, Sean; and seemingly Buck, Travis are the ones that most readily spring to mind. Street, Huston didn’t exactly prosper on Geren’s watch, either, now I think about it.
The thing that gives me real pause as far as exchanging Gallagher, Italiano, and Webb for Hairston is that it really feels like the A’s are selling low on Gallagher and buying high on Hairston- and they’re also giving up a promising arm in Italiano that might’ve been good to have later, too. It seems the A’s believe they have enough pitching depth now that Gallagher was expendable, but I think this might prove foolhardy down the road a little ways (see Outman, Josh and Devine, Joey just as small reminders of the potential attrition rate for pitchers, young or old.)
I also do not believe that Hairston is a serious solution to the offensive woes of the A’s, and that’s not to knock the value of the player- he seems a solid enough outfielder, but his true offensive talent and potential production now and over the next two seasons is most likely somewhere between where he’s hitting now and where he was hitting all that time previously (in other words- reasonable, not great, and that’s only when his defensive value as a CF is factored in.) He’s a role player, not a serious offensive force of nature that you build a line-up around.
Yes, the A’s absolutely do need solid role-players that can contribute effectively on the major league team. But why give up Gallagher at the nadir of his value (thus far anyway) for a role-player when there was no discernible reason to rush to judgment on the young pitcher? And why for yet another outfielder when you’ve got Buck at the very least, and Cunningham as well, playing at AAA because the major league roster is already too full of outfielders?
This one will remain a bit of a head-scratcher for me, regardless of how the players perform going forward. And I will continue to wonder why some of these talented young players brought into the organization through trade the past couple years are being shown the door after apparently so little time to develop and prove their worth.
by still bills kingdom on Jul 13, 2009 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As if
the Padres weren’t bad enough already
Optimistic...
by Porcupine on Jul 15, 2009 2:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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