Geren Shows Cojones, A's Rally To Win 7-2
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 6:55 PM PDT
134 comments
Whether the events are related or entirely coincidental, two things happened today that we just haven't seen. First, Bob Geren responded to a pop up that Ryan Sweeney didn't run out by pulling Sweeney from the game between innings. The message? Play hard or I'll find someone who will. Geren's statement was very public, highly visible, and arguably a long time coming for a team that has long looked lacking in energy and hustle.
The A's were trailing 1-0 at the time. By the top of the 7th, it was 2-0 when the A's came alive -- and then some. With one out Bobby Crosby, only in because Jason Giambi suffered a contusion when hit on the elbow with a pitch, singled and then Rajai Davis, only in because, well, Sweeney wasn't, launched a game-tying 2-run HR. Then Mark Ellis singled and Adam Kennedy hit the inning's second 2-run HR, giving the A's a 4-2 lead. Cabrera and Hairston followed with singles that gave the A's 6 hits in a row. And then Oakland put up a 3-spot in the 8th. In other words, they looked like a baseball team.
I've put up a poll for fans to weigh in on the practice of yanking a player from the game, in a way that becomes public, as a response to the player not playing hard, failing to hustle, as evidently happened with Sweeney.
Meanwhile, with any help Dallas Braden could have pitched 6 innings of shutout ball but settled for 6 innings of 2-run ball. In the 1st inning on a Ben Zobrist bunt, Braden's throw hit Zobrist when he was running inside the line and the ball caromed away, allowing Zobrist to go to second and eventually score. Zobrist should have been called out. In the 6th, a fly ball eluded the A's OFers for a leadoff double that would produce Tampa Bay's second run.
Ken Korach made a comment on the broadcast that if Braden had gotten more run support, and didn't have a 6-7 record (now 7-7) to support his sterling 3.13 ERA, he'd be heading to St. Louis this week for the All-Star Game. Run support doesn't say anything about a pitcher!!! If there were better choices, fine, but Braden's W/L record should be no factor whatsoever in the decision. That stuff just irks the heck out of me.
As does players being allowed to give anything but 100% of what they have to offer. My feeling? Geren didn't embarrass Sweeney, Sweeney embarrassed himself and got called on it. Your thoughts?
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I went into the game thread to find out why Sweeney was pulled
I was shocked when I discovered it was Geren actually managing.
No doubt it’s the right decision. You either play hard or don’t play at all.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
by hero66 on Jul 11, 2009 6:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait...Geren made a good decision?
Oh lordie, I’ve got the vapors something fierce all of a sudden!
by Slappyfrog on Jul 11, 2009 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Biz never sleeps
Too bad we can’t say the same thing about the A’s’ offense.
by Joey C. on Jul 11, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so Sweeney was loafing?
I missed the whole thing, didn’t come into the radiocast til the 6th, so someone please describe the play that caused Geren to pull RS, please?
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jul 11, 2009 7:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
oh he didn't run to 2nd fast enough?
I thought it was in the field, when mgrs pull a guy it’s usually for that.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jul 11, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't run hard to 1B on a groundout
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually didn't see it, so an account from someone who did would be great
It’s also currently speculation (though presumed by the radio crew); all that’s 100% confirmed is that he was taken out of the game and it wasn’t due to injury.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
it wasn’t a ground-out, it was a pop up. I believe that it was right after the Giambi HBP, Ryan takes a big cut at a ball that was up in the zone, the ball went straight up and was caught in the infield. Ryan was disgusted with himself, turned his back to the field/pitcher for a second with the ball still in the air, then turned to watch the ball with a disgusted look on his face. He never made it more than 20 feet up the line, never started into a stride, I don’t know if he dropped his bat or not. If the ball had dropped in, he was in no position to hustle to first.
It was noticeable right away, and had the feel of Ryan being frozen in self-disgust rather than apathetic, and I was surprised that the Rays announcers didn’t comment on it. It really was an extreme case of not even giving a token hustle.
by jakarta on Jul 11, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, why play Sweeney right now?
With Hairston on the club, he’s kinda redundant. Send him to AAA and call up Buck. Hairston and Davis can play CF and Buck is a better RF option than Sweeney is right now.
Send Sweeney down as a statement for his attitude and tell him to work on his power stroke while he’s at it.
by cityplANner on Jul 11, 2009 7:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or try, try to get some hitting v LHP in.
If he’s a platoon player only, I want to see what Travis Buck can do.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 11, 2009 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today, the Oakland Athletics played
BASEBALL.
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jul 11, 2009 7:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have determined...
…that the Oakland Athletics are scared of television cameras.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And baseballs.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
zombies, mainly.
zombies wearing opposing teams uniforms.
Mayo is the official sponsor of Zombies everywhere. I don’t trust you. --The Captain of Cheese
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 11, 2009 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, I'm ready to start believing in a manager having a great impact.
I’m still skeptical tho. But please Bob Geren, keep doing what you did tonight.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 11, 2009 7:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Come to the dark side
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jul 11, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just might join.
Give it time.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 11, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems more intuitive to me that a manager WOULD make a difference
than that he wouldn’t. Haven’t we all had a kid, known a kid, or been a kid who had one teacher who got the most out of you and another who got the least? Same kid, different amount of potential tapped into.
Maybe one teacher was the one you wished wouldn’t get on you so much and now you’re grateful she did. Maybe another was the teacher you thought was a lot of fun but looked the other way when you did a half-assed job on your essay.
The range of what a given player can give is huge. Players aren’t just “career stat sheets” bound for certain outcomes if you let the sample grow sufficiently. Add to that how contagious attitude, effort, and spirit can be, and how a team feeds off of one another, and it’s not hard to see how a leader has the chance to bring out anything from a heck of a lot to a heck of a little from a group of 25 talented athletes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nature - nurture
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Jul 11, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I absoutely do believe in a manager having an impact.
I just haven’t seen or believed in it to the extent you or others have. I’ve felt that the manager has always been unfairly given the blame or credit when it’s more of a player thing. But things like today help convince me.
I’ve always been skeptical of things like motivation and effort. To me, it seems logical that players would be motivated by the whole they need to perform well to have a job thing. Also, when I played I never had issues with motivation and effort in spite of the fact that I had some coaches that did absolutely nothing. But I’m open to the possibility there’s much more to managing than penciling in the lineup card.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 11, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but you were doing it for the love of the game...
there is a difference. This is a job for a lot of the guys, you’ve half assed it at your job at times and so have I. But when the big boss is around and you know you’re being evaluated you can step it up. These guys get paid a ton and if they get given to much rope a good amount of them will slack as they are given guaranteed money as well as the fact that getting traded from the Oakland A’s to another team is really not much of a punishment anymore. There are multiple reasons to get lackadaisical as an A’s player these days and it takes a good manager to rally the troops and create an inner feeling of pride in being on the Oakland A’s.
by throttle mathius on Jul 12, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 12, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generally speaking I'd hold the stats above all else
simply on basis that that’s the only thing that can be “controlled” in the environment. But knowing that and knowing these people are human, it doesn’t seem hard to believe that when stats fail to “predict” the next outcome it has more to do with the human intangibles like management, environment, etc. In what ways and how much is just too difficult, if not impossible, to measure which is way you need to fall back on the stats. But in doing so, you’re a fool if completely ignore everything else.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jul 11, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pull Sweeney after the inning...
then point out that after that little display Rajai Davis now has a higher OBP and Slugging percentage than he does and since Davis is the better defensive outfielder, why the fuck should the name Ryan Sweeney appear on another line-up card.
I realize that argument has a SSS issue but its intent is to motivate.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 11, 2009 7:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
hey, ride the hot hand
If Davis keeps hitting, keep playing him. He’ll cool down at some point and you can slide Sweens back in there. In the meantime, motive away
by cityplANner on Jul 11, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also have that guy Travis Buck
another reason Sweeney should never appear on the lineup card.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 11, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hanahan just traded to the Mariners
for an AA-pitcher.
On MLB…
"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw
by One won lost won on Jul 11, 2009 7:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You just made my day
Thank You
by TerrySteinbach on Jul 11, 2009 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geren confirms
he pulled Sweeney because he didn’t run hard.
will crosby spread his legs so far apart at bat that the games will have to be rated nc-17 -- emperor nobody
by day-to-day on Jul 11, 2009 7:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps the word has been passed to Geren...
…that his relationship with Billy Beane has been greatly exaggerated. Perhaps Geren has had his “Popeye” moment when he “can’t stands no more.” Who knows? I have a feeling, however, the A’s are going to be a lot more interesting from here on out.
"Have you heard? It’s in the stars.
Next July, we collide with Mars!"
-Cole Porter
by ptbarnum on Jul 11, 2009 7:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Could mean...
…that Beane read him the riot act. Or something. So uncharacteristic, but FINALLY!!!!!
by richwol1 on Jul 11, 2009 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but Beane dosent even watch the games
he was probably at an Outback Steakhouse somewhere
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
by BleedGreen on Jul 12, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More like scenario
Is that we revert to our true form tomorrow and get shut down again.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jul 11, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YAY WIN!!!!!
And yay Geren for acting like he has a pair.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 11, 2009 7:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Sweeney thing
My assumption, having seen nothing, is that Sweeney’s “lack of hustle” was a garden variety jog on a very likely out. We see this sort of thing all of the time.
This strikes me as a pretext. Geren wanted to send a message, because he’s been hearing it from Beane or even reading it on AN. Sweeney a good target, because he’s not that great and isn’t likely to pout or create a scene. And it’s not like the A’s are showcasing him for a trade.
I’m neither happy nor unhappy about this. I am unaware of any pattern of laziness on Sweeney’s part, so part of me is suspicious that he was targeted. But perhaps it’s better than the usual happy talk from Geren.
by bear88 on Jul 11, 2009 7:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
See, now that's the value in having a target.
If the target is wise, it will move. Quickly.
Doesn’t really matter all that much which player was targeted. They all need that icy feeling that accompanies the hair on the back your neck standing up. It makes you jump for no discernable reason, and you are absolutely convinced that someone is watching you. Sometimes you’re right, and they really are watching you…..with a purpose. Perhaps a malevolent purpose.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jul 11, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Sweeney's dumb, he'll pout
If he’s smart, he’ll say, “I deserved it; the manager did the right thing.” However, it’s often hard to do the smart thing when you’ve been humiliated. We’ll see how it plays out.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, it could also be an overall effect of "Pffft, Geren."
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jul 11, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell
It just as easily be followed by Sweeney saying, “Really? Now? We’re half way through the season and he’s been managing half assed and now he wakes up? Too little too late, you think?”
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jul 11, 2009 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes we will.
I hope it’s a much harder, meaner Bob that emerges from here on out. If Sweeney wants to pout, then let him do it in Sac town. I’d suggest that Bob call him into his office and place a hotel card key for the current team hotel and an airline ticket to Sac on his desk while he chews Sweeney’s ass down one side and then the other. He can make it real plain that Sweeney has a big decision to make in just a couple of minutes. If he responds poorly, pick up the phone and make Buck the same offer with Sweeney standing in the office.
Bob should make it very clear that he may indeed lose his job, but if he does, he damn sure means to see that he has a lot of company in the unemployment line. If he’s smart he’ll let them know that he takes this shit personally and that he’s going to see to it that they do too. He needs to call all the neer-do-wells out by name and let them know he intends to screw them over very soon.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jul 11, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a very likely out
but it was not a garden variety jog, it was ‘deer in the headlights’ immobility.
by jakarta on Jul 11, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I see Cabrera loaf to first all the time on ground balls. I think Geren waited specifically for a young player to pull this to make a statement. You’ll never see him do this with a vet.
"Mount it? I already did. Oh! You meant on the wall?!!
by rickey939 on Jul 12, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Recently it seems that OrCab has been running really hard up the line.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 12, 2009 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Noticed that in the Boston series. I think that mini hot streak of a week ago rejuvinated Cabrera, gave him a new lease on life.
http://www.myspace.com/ryanmac10
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 12, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
my impression of the A's, is that they generally hustle
sure, they’re bad (inept, inexperienced or past their prime), but they put out a good effort. If Sweeney dogged it to first, that’s unusual for this team.
Good for Geren, though it’s a little strange for him to be playing tough guy. He must be starting to feel some pressure, starting to feel that his future with this team is cloudy.
by skutch on Jul 11, 2009 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I watched maybe a few at bats of the game early on.....did not read AN
hardly at all today. So…..after being out and about, I come home this evening, fire up the Mariners game just now and whilst lulling on the couch I hear the M’s announcers talking about Hannahan as if he was batting – huh?. Look up and by golly it’s him.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Jul 11, 2009 7:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"as if he was batting"
actually describes Hannahan pretty well.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what pisses me off though?
He’ll probably hit .470 against us for the rest of the season.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jul 11, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What pisses me off even more is that this means
he’ll have to get 100 ABs against us. How many 15 inning games are we gonna play against these guys?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He only needs 66 ABs
31/66 = .470
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 11, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No fair -- you're rounding off
For my .470, I want “point four seven zero bar” (with the bar only over the zero).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 12, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Sweeney supporter...
… but I agree with targeting him for sending a message. He’s young, he doesn’t have much of a track record, and he certainly can’t act as though he deserves to pout or feel slighted. On the other side of it, a swift kick in the butt might push him into overdrive— a welcome proposition for a large dude with a lot of athleticism. I wonder why Geren took this long to choose someone for message-sending, though?
Anyway, great 7th inning and another game effort by Dallas Braden. As much the lineup is tough to watch day in, day out, this young starting rotation has by and large been very entertaining.
by Joey C. on Jul 11, 2009 7:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Teachers/coaches don't do their pupils any favors by
not pushing them to be the best they can be. You can push someone without yelling, screaming, threatening, punishing all the time — in fact, mentoring, cheerleading, supporting is a big part of it — but if you aren’t pushing them to be the best they can be, and reminding them that they can do better than they even think they can, then you’re simply not doing your job.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nico, you can do better
in correctly spelling Spanish-derived slang words in your FanPost headlines.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 11, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
O/T
Dan Henderson just knocked out Michael Bisping (COLD)
Right to the jaw and he fell like a sack of potatoes then he elbowed him across face to make sure he was totally out
My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010
by Trainman on Jul 11, 2009 8:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not my cup of tea.
Can’t say that I’m really all that enamored with blood sports.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jul 11, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did someone call 911?
Hope they throw the book at that bastard.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's only one Bloodsport I'm enamored with
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 11, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, photoshopping his head onto my body is kind of amusing, I guess.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not my cup of blood, ANYMORE.
when it changed from true no-rules, multiple fights a day to win it all, to too many rules to count and one fight to win, I lost interest.
the original ones with Graci etc where you could actually do anything you wanted and the fighter had to fight again with injury’s etc were the best. Its just not brutal enough anymore.
by OmahaHi on Jul 12, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, with Rich the "G-man" Gomes as an announcer or however he spelt it.
and Ken Shamrock BEFORE he went over to the dark side. and Tank Abbot
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Jul 12, 2009 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for that
I’ll enjoy the next few minutes reliving the beatings I got as a child.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jul 11, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I apologize.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no worries dad
all that inheritance $ I didn’t get made me forgive you.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jul 11, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, that was just as brutal as they come
And Bisping is no tomato can.
by Joey C. on Jul 11, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh.
he was a finesse fighter and the UFC kept him alive and away from real fights because they needed him to pump up the UK market. He was a complete and total punk to Dan Henderson all season on UF9, and Hendo just ate it, waiting for this fight. It was sweet.
Mayo is the official sponsor of Zombies everywhere. I don’t trust you. --The Captain of Cheese
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 11, 2009 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i missed the game, but if sweeney was loafing i have no problem
with him being pulled. that said, there have been many times o’cab shuffled his ass down the line to my utter annoyance so i hope geren applies his new tougher attitude evenly.
by Deborah51 on Jul 11, 2009 9:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why Did maddon get the boot?
I was only half paying attention, it seemed like the catcher touched the ball with the mask. IIRC he can’t do that, if he does, the runners get a base. what was there to argue about?
by Future Ed on Jul 11, 2009 9:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If I had to guess and I didn't see or hear it so that's exactly what I'm doing
but his argument likely was that it was done when there was “no play”. Between pitches, Holliday basically standing on 2nd, so he probably felt it didn’t really apply.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jul 11, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was probably upset that the umps got the call wrong, which they did -
According to Rule 7.05 (d), the runners are supposed to be awarded two bases, not one, if the catcher uses his mask to stop a thrown ball/pitch.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is clearly why Geren is an absolutely HORRIBLE manager
He should have known that and got kicked out of the game too. Or at the very least, Sweeney should have benched him for dogging it in the dugout.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jul 11, 2009 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 11, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
- The A’s would win (with seven runs) on the day in which I am not home.
- The A’s would wear their throwback uniforms in a non-televised game.
- What the heck, Ryan?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 11, 2009 9:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Beane answers Susan Slusser's questions
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/11/SPR318I7GC.DTL
Still praising Geren for his job and denying Geren is a puppet.
Feel like puking after reading that.
My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010
by Trainman on Jul 11, 2009 10:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
At least Susan asked him
all the right questions
My favorite team is a fucking embarrassment to all true A's fans and they make me sick to my stomach on an almost daily fucking basis. But being a true fan, I will ride this pathetic bunch of losers out and hope that they get better in 2010
by Trainman on Jul 11, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I found many of the user comments offensive -- those weren't softball questions,
just pat answers to perfectly good questions.
I did lose my dinner over this excerpt from Billy, though: “(Geren) makes the process, at least from our end, very pleasant because he always sees the glass half full.” So glad he makes the process pleasant. And I’m not sure I want to know which “end” you mean.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loose your dinner?
i suppose you could loose your dinner….in the garden, or perhaps you placed your plate in the frig and forgot about it?
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Jul 11, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So basically he's a puppet and yes-man and that's why you like him.
The ONLY problem I had was that she didn’t follow up by asking how he felt he did “MANAGING” the club, i.e., his in-game decision-making. But given the context of the interview and the way Beane was answering, I’m it probably wouldn’t have gotten a straight answer and would have been a waste of SuSlu’s time. But I agree on the idiocy of the comments there.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jul 11, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually really liked a lot of his answers
Mainly,
We really truly want to rebuild, and there are no shortcuts, but in the interim one of the things we’re going to try to do is to be respectful of our fans. We’re going to spend any excess we have. We owe it to the people who come here to have the best players we can within the confines of our payroll.
This year certainly didn’t work out in that regard, but he tried and I respect that.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 11, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was no information in the interview...
…other than what sounds like a ringing endorsement of Bob Geren.
Then again, Slusser didn’t ask him about how lifeless the team feels from the stands. She didn’t ask about any specific players, including what might be behind keeping Barton and Buck in AAA, not giving them major league experience. Or maybe she did, and his non-answers weren’t worth printing.
by richwol1 on Jul 11, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure there was
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 12, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read it again
I’ve been interviewing people for a very long time. There’s less there than meets the eye.
by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Slusser
Here’s a newsflash for you, next time ask some tough questions you friggin tool…..
by granja on Jul 12, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's ridiculous -- the questions are as tough as you can ask
“What is wrong with Jason Giambi? He has among the worst averages in the league.”
“You’ve set Oakland records for injuries the past two years and you’re on pace to break it again…”
“How do you respond to the widespread belief that Geren is a puppet and you’re pulling the strings…”
What the f*** do people want? The answers might have been lame but the questions weren’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 12, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slusser pressed him a couple of times...
…and got nowhere. She really pressed him on Geren.
We don’t know if this was a sit-down or phoner. The reason I hate phoners is that in a sit-down, when Beane says something like “Bob Geren is doing a great job” or some such, my eyebrows would be raised to the ceiling, I’d be shaking my head, and it’s possible Beane would feel the need to respond. Phoners, as Times columnist David Carr said, ignore affect. I mean, it could have been live and he could’ve been evasive anyway. Slusser did her job.
by richwol1 on Jul 12, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also could have been by email, which REALLY ignores affect
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 12, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Geren pulling him from the game and whatever, but my question, is why now, and why Sweeney?
I have seen bums like Giambi and OCab and many other of the A’s this year not hustle and not run out balls…why pull Sweeney now? Why was he singled out? Its pretty obvious this team hasn’t been putting everything on the line day in a day out, and while I agree with making a statement….thats one of the few times I have seen Sweeney run out a ball, meanwhile other players do it all the time.
I dont know, I just feel that that was unfair to Sweeney not because of why he was pulled, just because he was singled out. Its like 8 people robbing a jewelry store and they just randomly choose one to arrest…
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 11, 2009 10:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably because he's white.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 11, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
obviously, how could I miss that?
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 11, 2009 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
will crosby spread his legs so far apart at bat that the games will have to be rated nc-17 -- emperor nobody
by day-to-day on Jul 11, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prior to the game, Geren pulled Sweeney aside
“hey, i want you to sandbag it on the bases, and then I will get on your and pull you from the game…and here is hundred dollar bill, dinner on me tonight.”
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Jul 11, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was also wondering "why now"
How is it possible that Geren is just now getting annoyed by his players dogging it?
will crosby spread his legs so far apart at bat that the games will have to be rated nc-17 -- emperor nobody
by day-to-day on Jul 11, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chronic Injuries
Giambi’s probably been instructed by the training staff to not run out balls when the outcome doesn’t appear to matter. Nomar too. It’s an entirely different proposition for someone who risks pulling something as much as they do than it is for a normal, healthy young outfielder.
by muscatel on Jul 11, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats one of the few times i have seen Sweeney *not* run out out a ball i mean.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 11, 2009 10:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
When Rajai replaced Sweeney
did he play CF or RF? I assume Hairston started at CF, right?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 11, 2009 11:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Davis played right field the whole way and Hairston played center field the whole way.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 11, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis played right field the whole way and Hairston played center field the whole way.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 11, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get Unpredictable
wow, reading ANers pitting Sweeney against Buck (for playing time) is really telling. Why demonize either of these guys? Their flashes of brilliance and lapses of less are the stuff of young players— that’s just the way it goes, and it’s what we should have expected from day one this season. It’s just that we got tantalized, hoping that the chosen combination of rapidly aging veterans & promising youth was going to take us to the promised land right now. But that’s not why we’re pissed, is it. We’re pissed because no one running this team this season seems to be smart enough (or is too scared) to switch courses immediately and start aggressively manufacturing runs; instead, the same predictable strategy of walks and home runs rules the roost. It’s just so obvious; if guys aren’t hitting, then bunt or hit n run. Or even (gasp) steal a base. If opposing teams know we will always take the first pitch, then start whacking at the first offering (news flash— it’s almost always a strike). Not saying throw moneyball in the trash, just saying: get unpredictable.
by oaklidiot on Jul 11, 2009 11:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's 2009
What’s “moneyball” (from 2001-2003) have to do with the current club??
"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw
by One won lost won on Jul 11, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's still the dominant oakland "philosophy", no?
you know, walks are better than hits, etc. (in a nutshell). No?
by oaklidiot on Jul 11, 2009 11:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The philosophy of Moneyball, at least the way that I read it
Was to acquire players for a small budget team by searching out skillsets that other teams didn’t realise were important. ie, players that had skills that were undervalued. One example of this was OBP and the power of the walk. The overriding idea is to approach performance statistically, and not to go with gut instincts etc, which often prove to be wrong.
So in those terms, yes, “Moneyball” is still an important philosophy in the running of Oakland, but the actual results may be different now.
I suspect that Beane’s latest thing was to acquire players who may be undervalued due to injury concerns, and acquire a hatful of them, thinking that at least one or two of them would come off. Actually, that’s more speculation than anything else.
by bobnothing on Jul 12, 2009 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally agree that's what happened
and that it’s speculation. I’d go further and say the actual results are not only different now, but they suck. I’m suggesting that beyond a small market player acquisition strategy, moneyball has now manifested literally as an on-field approach to hitting, with an over-emphasis on the walk to the detriment of the base hit, the manufactured run, the stolen base. etc. — and the opposing teams know this. It’s been like this for the last few years. In other words, now the obvious basics of aggressive offense have become under-valued to a fault, turning what was once an advantage into loads of guys left on base (if they even get there in the first place). In other words, I miss Jay Payton (.296 avg, seemingly run out of town because he liked to get base hits).
by oaklidiot on Jul 12, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you look at the player we have right now (especally the vets)
You’ll see that Moneyball the misconceived offense philosophy doesn’t exist as it did anymore.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jul 12, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that clearly low OPS is the new undervalued asset!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 12, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Moneyball was never “walks are better than hits”. Moneyball was “walks are undervalued relative to hits”. But they aren’t any more, and haven’t been for a few years.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jul 12, 2009 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Moneyball
find what’s undervalued in the market? And at the time of the book it happened to be walks?
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 12, 2009 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, at least from what I got.
Back then, it was walks.
Then, it became defense. Hence the contracts Mark Ellis, Adam Everett, and Orlando Hudson got (especially Ellis, since Hudson is not a great defender and the contract deflation can be blamed more on the OVERvaluation of draft picks). And that you could find upwards of 2 WAR players on the waiver wire because they were weak bat, all glove types and their value came from defense.
Now I have no idea what the market undervaluation is, since the defense thing somewhat righted itself with the Giambi/Abreu/Dunn/Burrell contracts.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
by Blicks on Jul 12, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, hence my speculation that the new undervaluation might be picking lots of hurt players on the cheap
and hoping that a couple of them come off.
by bobnothing on Jul 12, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The results of the benching of Sweeney on the "Dressing Room"
Here’s some more speculation about what had might happen next:
1. The players is depressed and frustrated because they’re losing a lot, which hurts their professional pride (I refuse to believe that they don’t care about losing, but this isn’t the point)
2. Geren likewise, is depressed and frustrated with his team
3. Geren publically benches young player
4. Players take umbrage to this. they feel like the finger is being pointed at them by a manager who’s not taking any personal responsibility for the losing and general crapiness.
5. Geren “loses the dressing room”. whilst players won’t come out and say it at the time, post Geren players will make mention of not liking his methods, the way he dealt with them, comparing him unfavorably with new manager, who “is a breath of fresh air”, etc etc etc.
6. ???
7. Profit!
I mean, Geren fired.
Now, I don’t think the A’s playing poorly at the moment is particularly the fault of Bob Geren. They are, afterall, highly paid professionals and shouldn’t need their dad telling them to put on their grownup pants and start playing well. But, it’s clearly not oing to help if they actively dislike him.
Also, it doesn’t help that the A’s best player ahem Jack Hannahan ahem has been sent away. I AM SAD ABOUT THIS.
by bobnothing on Jul 12, 2009 12:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
actually...
he popped up to the short stop in the second innning with giambi on first base. he stayed at home plate and looking at his bat if it is broken or not instead of running to first base.
however geren didn’t pull him out of the game right after that, he played the 3rd inning in the field and got pulled after that inning.
"I managed a team that was so bad we considered a 2-0 count on the batter a rally." - Rich Donnelly, minor league manager
by homerun13 on Jul 12, 2009 12:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Best example I know of a manager having an impact
Billy Martin.
Took over woeful teams (especially the ‘80 A’s) and simply made clear to them that he would not allow them to lose. What was Billy Ball but Martin’s own recognition that, given the hand he was dealt, an attitude of “we’ll do any crazy shit it takes to win” (which was imbued into all the players) was the only think that would help that team survive. Martin made Norris and Langford and the rest better than they were (well, Norris was incredibly talented) because he wouldn’t accept them being anything less.
Sure that intensity eventually vanquishes itself and end kind of ugly (happened everywhere for him). But, man, for two years it just made an incredible difference with that A’s team and with teams like the Tigers and Rangers in years previous.
by RLangford on Jul 12, 2009 3:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
about benching Sweeney
sure you can point to other players during this season who Geren could and should have pulled out for the same reason — but better late than never….and last night his action didn’t seem to hurt the team’s performance.
minor correction: “cajones” are boxes. Unless the title of the wrap means that Geren showed some boxes, I think “cojones” is what was meant.
by OaklandSi on Jul 12, 2009 5:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 12, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better late that never, I guess, I've fixed some stuff
The reason I misspelled “cojones” is that the sun got in my eyes, and the reason I didn’t realize it was a pop up is that I’m too young/old to do any better.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 12, 2009 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
pull him from the blog for a day or two
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Jul 12, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something that's been bothering me ...
I keep reading comments like, “There’s no way (insert name here) isn’t trying hard, because he’s playing for a job next year.”
Unless you’re talking about someone like Rajai Davis or some other back-up, please stop. Matt Holliday isn’t worried about having a job. Orlando Cabrera isn’t worried about having a job. These guys know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that no matter how badly they play this season, they will make millions playing somewhere next year. Granted, it may be for a little less money, but not much. So please stop with the ridiculous notion that these guys are “playing for their jobs.” They’re not.
IOW, it is quite possible, and quite likely, that many players give half-ass effort with little thought about the consequences. Good for Geren, it’s about time.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on Jul 12, 2009 6:55 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Here's one for you Bob the clown
How bout you send a message and bust his ass back to AAA.
by granja on Jul 12, 2009 9:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What I'd like to see? Players saying things like Mark Reynolds said
the other day about his Diamondbacks: “We look like the Bad News Bears out there and it’s frustrating. It’s to the point where stuff’s got to change. I don’t want to say guys are packing it in, but it sure seems like it.”
Oh, and the Diamondbacks responded by winning the next five in a row.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 12, 2009 9:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Seems like Sweeney may have not reacted well to being benched.
Either that, or Geren isn’t done letting him know of his displeasure. He’s out of the lineup again today. Rajai Davis gets the start in right against one of the best right-handed pitchers in the AL.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 12, 2009 10:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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