Jay Bruce fractures wrist...Holliday?
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 5:57 PM PDT
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The Reds are only 4 out in the Central and 5.5 out in the Wild Card...they already expressed a possible interest in Holliday. Could this be our trade partner? They match up with us VERY well positionally; Cincinnati is stacked on the left side of the infield prospect-wise with Todd Frazier, Chris Valaika, Neftali Soto, and Juan Francisco. I'd think any Holliday deal would have to start with Frazier. Thoughts?
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Cool discussion topic, thanks GW
Out of curiosity I just looked up Frazier’s recent game logs. He’s been playing left field exclusively for Carolina (AA) in July. Does anyone know if he been moved there permanently? If so, that would be a bummer. His numbers look much more attractive if he was a 3b solution.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 11, 2009 6:43 PM PDT reply actions
Almost exclusively
He’s also played some 1b.
Why the move, and why didn’t the Reds try him at 3B?
Good question.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The reds kept soto a worse defender at SS longer
He can play third but I think Francisco can’t hit enough to play 1b and can’t play the OF
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 7:42 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The Reds could've used Holliday before Bruce got injured
I don’t know if they’d suddenly do something now, especially since they’re not really built for 2009.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
Not especially
But they have enough guys that they think they can make a run, and if they’re serious Holliday would be a big piece. Obviously having 4 high-caliber 3B or SS prospects means they have a position of strength from which to deal. I could even see a deal getting done with Cincy in which they don’t even have to give up Frazier. I could see a Valaika and Soto plus one or two of Rosales, Roenicke, Maloney, or Stubbs. Chris Heisey would also be an interesting piece; he’s raking this year. Zach Stewart is also very interesting.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
They have a shot this year
But they’re not looking to mortgage such a bright future to maybe be able to scoot by this year. That team is built for 2010 or 2011 and on, not this season.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
Depends on how smart Walt Jocketty is...
…and how much they like the guys they already have. If they feel like they have enough depth in their system to sacrifice some of it to get Holliday + two first-rounders OR Holliday plus Holliday again in 2010 via arbitration, they could make a move. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it, honestly.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, if Jocketty is smart, he's not trading for Holliday.
He’s punting and trying to sell.
That team is overachieving, and its not just the offense, its the pitching.
But then, who knows.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
I'd think the Bruce injury makes a Holliday less likely, not more,
just because if the Reds were barely hanging on, kind of in the race, maybe buyers maybe not, then this setback might convince them NOT to go for it, rather than inspiring them to deal for an OFer (whose contract is up at the end of the year).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
My possible trade partners series is making it's easy to the reds monday
But let me just say Zack Cozart
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 7:00 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yea he's the Reese Havens of the Reds
A guy I started out not knowing a lot about and ended up covetting.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 7:05 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Should be way and not easy
Been working on it for a week or so. I think you folks will like it
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 7:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe it's making its easy way?
Or making it way easy!
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
They're far from easy to write. About 2k words whe it's done
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 7:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh I know
Wasn’t saying that lol. Just messing with the typo. We really appreciate you taking the time to write them up; outstanding discussion pieces, and great research and insight.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Grover helped with the research on this one
I wasn’t taking offense I was just trying to turn it back. I like writing them I’m just waiting tilll Monday because A I’m out of town and B posts on weekdays get more coments/debate
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 8:02 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Interesting...
He must have some helium. He wasn’t on any preseason prospect lists.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps I was looking at the wrong list?
He shows up as “best defensive infielder”, but not in the top ten.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
He wasn't a top 20 on sickles either before 09
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 7:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
They fixed his swing in 08
And he has hit ever since. Had an underrated year repeating low a last year and is having a break out year after being jumped to AA this year.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 7:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Really good numbers this year
Not horrible numbers last year. How has he done in A ball etc?
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
Holliday Not Going to Cincinnati
The Reds are a notoriously cheap organization. While the Reds would benefit from gaining the extra draft choices when Holliday moves on, they would have to pay the remainder of his salary for the year.
The potential of playoff revenue vs. having to pay Holliday win or lose will keep the Reds ownership from making the trade.
Or the A's could pick up a portion of Holliday's remaining salary
Earning Oakland better prospect compensation.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Eat it all
Whatever. Holliday’s salary is listed as $13.5 mil. We’re halfway through, so that’s $6.75 mil left. If you eat a little bit, you get a little bit of the haul. If you eat most of it, you get MUCH better players. Would you pay $3 mil for Todd Frazier? I sure as hell would.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Carlos Santana and Meleon for Casey Frickin Blake
The miricales of picking up salary astound even to this day
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2009 7:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I really want to get the Reds, Cubs, and maybe the Cardinals bidding against each other.
NL Central Holliday Race. Jack up the price a little, especially with the A’s eating salary to make the Cubs feasible players in such a game.
Before somebody says “Cubs have a full OF,” Milton Bradley is playing like a release candidate and should be released before that option vests and the Cubs have a team wOBA* of .319, tied with the offense powerhouse known as your 2009 Athletics.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
Not disagreeing with your point RE: the Cubs' offense...
…just saying that they, for some reason, seem to like their outfielders. Even without Bradley they still have Soriano/Reed Johnson/Fukudome, and Sam Fuld who they keep freaking gushing about in the news. Johnson and Fukudome are both pretty good defenders. Not saying they couldn’t use Holliday, just saying I don’t see them getting involved. Also, I’m actually not sure the Cubs have the prospects to get Holliday, even if we picked up NO salary. Their system looks like Jason Giambi’s batting average: horrible.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
It would have to include Vitters IMO.
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 11, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
That's my feeling
(And I’m sure Vitters’ Watermelons will agree.)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd think it would...
…but would the Cubs really do that? I really don’t think so.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jul 11, 2009 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Hendry would.
He is a rather trigger happy GM, and he’s made plenty of moves without being aware of the ramifications. Hell, I think he’s one of the stupider GMs in the game.
And trading for a bullpen arm would involve him eating copiously large amounts of crow, and something tells me he’s a proud person.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
Sure they do.
Give me Josh Vitters, Andrew Cashner, and Jay Jackson. Also wanna keep an eye out for Starlin Castro, although I’m not a big fan.
They don’t have the prospects to make a Holliday deal and not have an Astros-level farm system, but they have just enough to squeeze out a Holliday deal, even with A’s eating the salary.
And I think their system sucks, but getting them in simply for a bidding war is a smart idea.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
They like Fuld because he's cheap and does what the big priced guys don't
like play competent defense and have good at bats. The Cubs already have 3 immovable pieces in their outfield in Soriano, Fukudome and Bradley. Reed is a bit of a cult hero and Lou loves him. They also have a couple guys they are trying to keep on the roster that they stick out there and sometimes play competently in Hoffpauir and Fox.
Also, remember that they cut payroll in order to add Bradley.
Cards are probably hot for Holliday, but I see the counter bidding coming from the Braves, Giants and maybe a team like the Mets in the NL.
Braley is still owed 11 1/2 M of so if they cut him right now for the rest of this year and all of next year which is gaurnateed in his deal
and needs 5 games for his option to vest. There is no way they cut him. Between being on the hook for his salary and the fact that the Cubs would lose the grievance hearing because his numbers are trending back up the last 25 games or so, and the inablilty to make take on any salary because of the impending sale makes the Cubs a pipe dream.
Lets not forget that the Cubs are being sold through bankruptcy court. That means that the parent company cannot add outstanding debt until the sale is finalized. Cutting Bradley and adding Holiday would be seen as a significant change in the value of the team.
Nice idea baseball wise, nonstarter accounting wise.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
but wat if we jest traded Holliday 4 Bradley!?!&!
Milton loved Oakland on his first tour…
Batting 4th for the 2014 San Jose A's: 26-year-old RF Justin Upton, in the 1st season of a nine year, $250M deal.
by notsellingjeans on Jul 12, 2009 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Aah, didn't know that.
I know very, very little about accounting outside the basic stuff.
I know the Cubs were being resold, but I didn’t know much about the bankruptcy issues. Meh. You’re right. My bad.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Free Travis Buck.
I was under the impression that you could cut a player when ever you wanted
regardless of contract/performance issues. The problem would be benching them so they didn’t get their incentives. Is this not accurate?
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jul 12, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
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