Bombs From Cust and Giambi Provide Run Support For Dallas Braden in Series Win
by baseballgirl on Jul 1, 2009 3:14 PM PDT
Email
PrintDallas Braden, who has pitched much, much better than his record will show, was rewarded for an excellent start today with an actual win, as the A’s take the series from the Tigers with the final score of 5-1.
Braden was simply fantastic in his seven innings of work, allowing five hits (most of them doubles), one walk, and three strikeouts. His ERA has dropped to 3.13, one of the better numbers in the league, and although he was dodging doubles all outing, he managed to allow only the single run. It would be more than enough for the A’s offense.
Down 1-0 to a tough Justin Verlander in the fourth, Ryan Sweeney would single with two outs, bringing up the slumping Jack Cust. Unlike the past few weeks, Cust had nothing to worry about in today’s game except his bat; with the return of Travis Buck to the lineup, he was the designated hitter. He would end the day with just the one hit, but it was a huge one; he homered to left to give the A’s a 2-1 lead that they would never relinquish.
They would add on in the sixth inning, as Holliday beat out an infield single and moved to second on a balk. Giambi fired the closing shot on Verlander’s day by hitting a homerun of his own to give the A’s the 4-1 lead. Suzuki would double Crosby in for the fifth run later in the game.
Braden was relieved by Brad Ziegler in the eighth, who gave up a leadoff single, but would recover nicely with a strikeout and a double-play. Ziegler looks like the 2008 version, and a quality set-up man. Andrew Bailey--seldom seen lately--pitched the ninth in the non-save situation, and struck out the side, bringing his ERA down to 2.09, and continuing to make his case for the A’s representative to the All-Star team.
All in all, it was a solid win top to bottom, and it’s certainly a big series win for a team so far under .500. The Tigers are leading the central division. More importantly, it gave the A’s a good series under their belt before they embark on the road trip leading up to the All-Star break; they play in Cleveland this weekend, and Boston and Tampa Bay next week. First pitch 4:05 on Friday night; see you there!
217 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Sweet win
Nice way to wrap up a sad homestand. Bring on the Tribe!!!
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
I'd like to congratulate BBG
for not swearing at all on these game threads today!
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
Travis Buck better be in the lineup for all three games against Cleveland.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 1, 2009 3:29 PM PDT reply actions
Geren Watch
1. Cust, strikeout king, plays against Verlander, strikeout artist. The good: Cust homers with a man on. The bad: It only encourages Geren to keep playing Cust every day and sit Sweeney or Buck. And Cust strikes out a couple of times.
2. Giambi, who can’t get around on anything, plays against Verlander. The good: Giambi homers with a man on. The bad: It only encourages Beane to keep Giambi around, so that Barton can rot in the minors. And Giambi strikes out a couple of times.
3. Orlando Cabrera, lousy fielder in 2009, makes a gem double play and continues his hot hitting. Maybe we’re all wrong and he doesn’t need a rest.
4. Geren could’ve gone another inning with Braden but didn’t. That’s why all our pitchers are seven inning guys. If Braden goes another inning, maybe Geren will use one of our good pitchers in a game like yesterday’s, instead of the crud.
5. Buck and Sweeney both looked good. Ellis looked great. So of course Buck and Sweeney won’t get regular time in the field. Sigh.
okay...
1. Cust is one of the best hitters on the team, strickoutss1 or not. He’s in a slump, sure, but he’s also been moved down in the order. With an offense as bad as ours, you can’t take his bat out of the order.
2. Agreed.
3. Disagreed, but I’m hoping that he is increasing his trade value with this little hitting streak and his reputation as an elite defender.
4. Agreed.
5. Agreed.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Disagree strongly about Cust
I think it’s more than a slump. He’s in his third year, and it’s becoming increasingly obvious his strongest suit is passively waiting to be walked and often striking out with the bat on his shoulder, with the occasional mistake pitch hit for a monster homer.
Would you really want this guy to take away enough games from Sweeney, Buck, Cunningham, Barton, etc. so that they don’t have any chance to get in a groove so we can see what they can do?
My only beef is that Braden should have gone 8, Ziggy the 9th
But you can’t really quibble with Cust and Giambi starting against Verlander when…?
Dallas Braden is awesome, by the way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Braden
awesome is right. He didn’t have his best stuff, but was crafty enough to get the outs when he needed to.
And I think he should have pitched the eighth as well. Don’t cry about the overused bullpen when you make these decisions.
According to the A’s daily game notes, we hold an ongoing record for consecutive games without a pitcher getting to at least eight full innings. Today was an optimal day to break that.
"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady
Exactly. Or for Ziggy to go 2 and not overuse Bailey,
who YET AGAIN was up in the 8th the moment someone got on base against Ziggy. One baserunner in a three-run game, and Bailey was cranking it up in the pen.
I realize Bailey hasn’t been used all that much lately, but a manager has to allow his set-up man to give up a baserunner or two in the 8th — especially in a 3-run game — without panicking and getting his closer up in the 8th EVERY DAMN TIME the set-up man fails…gasp…to have a 1-2-3 inning.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No, I want him to DH and not play the field.
Though, I suspect there may be a lingering back injury we haven’t been told about. Something’s not right with him.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Maybe, if there were no other DH options
The existence of both Garciaparra and Giambi on the team necessitate putting Cust in the field and/or keeping Barton in the minors and/or not letting either Buck or Sweeney play every day.
One friend of mine has another suggestion: Play Powell every day at DH and bring up another catcher so we can see if Powell is a major league hitter.
The problem with having Giambi and Garciaparra on the team right now is that they’re blocking other players. And neither are good enough to stand on their own.
Well yeah, Giambi needs to sit and Garciaparra needs to retire.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Exactly.
Cust is not the problem.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Jack Cust
may not be the problem, but he is definitely a problem.
why's that?
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
There are a lot of problems on the A's, the team OPS in June is .682
And a one month sample from a hitter is not a large enough sample for OPS anyway. The truth is, the team has a lot of bad hitters, most much, much worse than Cust. The team’s season OPS is .675
Jack’s problem is either the new approach, the back injury, or a combination of both. If he’s really hurting, the A’s should just DL him, since there’s no point on wasting his body on a season out of contention.
Baseball isn't magic.
What's not right is his approach
He’s swinging way more than he used to and not walking as much. Simple.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Disagree on 4
I think Geren made the right decision on pulling Braden. He might have been able to leave him in there, but Braden said in the interview that he was feeling a little taxed in the 7th and he gave up two of the hardest hit balls he had all game in that inning. If the wind isn’t blowing in I think Magglio would have had a homerun. You have good pitchers in the bullpen and a day off tomorrow so I say protect the lead and get the series win before heading out on a road trip. Braden had a good day put looked like he was starting to struggle, no need to wait for him to really falter and put the game in jeopardy.
Okay
Geren usually pulls people too soon, so I figured this was another case.
Disclaimer: If Braden was gassed, then no problem
The pitch count would not have suggested it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Remember, he took his last start on short rest
so he might not have had as much in the tank to start the game as he usually does. Plus, he threw a whole lot of pitches with the go-ahead or tying run on 2nd or 3rd, which has to tire him out a bit.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Gritty pitchers toe the line anyway!!!!11
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What about the blood? Did he spill a lot of blood out there today?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Ordonez ball kept traveling
Holliday looked like he had it all the way, but then kept speeding up, going back.
That was enough for Braden. Not too excessive on the pitch count, but the Tigers were definitely catching up on him. Some of the outs were really stung.
"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw
by One won lost won on Jul 1, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Cust playing has nothing to do with Sweeney/Buck
Barton isn’t on the 25 man anymore, so Giambi is the only 1B (no Crosby and Nomar, you don’t count) on the roster.
Cust should be DHing every day. Both Sweeney and Buck should be playing every day.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
Nomar Garciaparra
…is also on the roster as a part-time DH. And Giambi needs days off from First Base. And Landon Powell needs some at bats even if he’s not catching. When that happens, Cust goes into the outfield and someone sits. And that someone will not be Matt Holliday.
Cust should be sitting from time to time.
I’m not convinced this is just a “slump.” His timing is off, everything is off. But even when it wasn’t off, he was very cold with a lot of walks most of the time, and very hot with a lot of walks for an occasional one week stretch, or three day stretch.
Some guys seem just better than their statistics would show. And some guys seem a lot worse than their compiled statistics. Cust is in the latter category, and it does make me wonder about trusting too much in those statistics when applied to a one-dimensional player.
key word:
seem
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
The question....
…is whether statistics should be evaluated differently for different players.
Looking at Cust in 2008, when his stats were above average… If you look more closely, you see a guy who wasn’t quite the go-to guy a power hitter normally is (i.e. under 80 RBI batting clean-up behind the team’s best OBP guys), yet someone whose high OBP was lost in front of guys who couldn’t get hits to save their lives. You move him up to the #1 or #2 slot, and you lose the advantage of his power swing on a team that desperately needs a power swing, you drop him down, and he doesn’t get enough hits in toto to drive in many runs. In other words, on a different team, he becomes very valuable. On this team, his value drops considerably, so much that they tried to tinker with his approach, and it screwed him up completely.
It may well be that this is simply the wrong team for Jack Cust, and what we’re all seeing (at least those of us who look more at Cust on a day-to-day basis than at his year-end stats) is how he’s really square peg in a round hole.
I don't see how his power is wasted in the second spot in the order. Could you explain that?
Baseball isn't magic.
Power Hitters
generally reside in the #3-5 slots because supposedly your best on-base guys are in front of you and you’ll drive them in. In the #2 slot, you’ve got one guy plus the bottom of the order in front of you, so there would supposedly be fewer guys on base for you to drive in.
In the case of Cust as the #2 hitter, when the bottom of the order consisted of Rajai Davis, Bobby Crosby and Jack Hannahan, it was fairly unlikely you’d have multiple runners on base for him to drive in.
Ah yes.
Because guys like Davis, Crosby, Hannahan, and most of the rest of the A’s lineup suck, Jack Cust is the problem. Yes, makes perfect sense.
It’s quite amusing to me to read the ever increasing absurd arguments the Jack Cust discreditors have come up with through the years. At this point, I don’t think any argument is going to convince them otherwise and I’m far from caring enough to try.
Knock the 2009 bizzarro “swing at everything” version of Cust for not being, well, Jack Cust all you want. But discrediting the 07 and 08 versions of Cust, and not for STRICKOUTS!!! but for things he actually does very well…am I the only one whose head exploded? But I’ll give you credit for trying to embark on a completely novel (and rather courageous) way to discredit one of the few good hitters on the team.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 2, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions
So, basically, it's a problem that Cust can't hit 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th in the A's lineup? If so, I agree.
I mean, he has been leading the A’s in slugging, on base average, and even silly things like runs and RBIs for a couple of seasons.
I would love to see your indictment of Bonds’ latter seasons, surrounded by far inferior hitters.
Baseball isn't magic.
I think one of the A's biggest problems is that
the guys who walk the most and the guys who hit for the most power…are the same hitters. When Cust and Giambi walk they are not HRing, and they are also not bringing themselves to the plate with runners on. Better to have different guys “getting on base” and “hitting for power.” And then there’s Matt Holliday having 3 RBIs since June 7th. Oops.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not sure that's really a problem, more par for the course.
The problem is that a good portion of the position players don’t have either skill.
And calling out Matt Holliday’s 3 RBIs since June 7th seems like cherry picking when he had 12 for the month, and that’s not even mentioning the poor hitters he had in front of him. He’s done very well this season with runners on, for whatever it’s worth.
Baseball isn't magic.
You could make that same argument for practically any player
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
No
Cust has power and he walks. But if he trolls for walks, he won’t hit homers. And if he swings, he tends to strike out too much. On a decent team, this would be okay no matter where he was in the line-up because getting on base - or hitting homers if the pitch was right - would work perfectly. It wouldn’t matter.
On the A’s, though, with crappy hitters behind him and hardly anyone else with decent HR power, he becomes the team’s greatest RBI threat. But if he walks, he’s not driving in anyone. So Nico is right here, in my estimation: when your best walk guy and your best HR guy are the same person, you’re kinda screwed.
The difference with Bonds, by the way, is that he was walked because walking him seemed like a better idea than pitching to him. And however weak the Giants were, the surrounding cast was much better at the art of hitting than the A’s. With Cust, you might as well pitch to him because outside of two or three short hot streaks, he can’t see the ball anyway.
In fact, it may be that the reason Cust is swinging so much this year is because people are challenging him more, and he’s just lousy at hitting the ball.
Statistics don't show changes in opponents' strategies
Does that mean strategy doesn’t exist in baseball?
"In fact, it may be that the reason Cust is swinging so much this year is because people are challenging him more, and he’s just lousy at hitting the ball."
That’s very false.
This year opponents are throwing 47.1% of their pitches for strikes against Cust. This isn’t any different from the 45.9%, and 48.4% he saw in 07 and 08 and his career average of 47.4%.
Yours and Nico’s arguments basically show how inept the A’s offense is (outside of Cust) yet for some reason, you decide to condemn Cust for it rather than, you know, the A’s offense.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 2, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not condemning Cust here
Just saying that he may be the wrong player for this team BECAUSE the rest of the offense is so inept.
Though in 2009, in particular, he’s really bad. The difference is you say “slump” and I say “really bad.”
I think that's interesting, because it's different from how I view players.
Generally, I think only of varying levels of talent, not in types. I understand that there are negatives (or maybe not?) to an entirely one dimensional team, but that seems difficult to stumble upon if an organization is trying to build toward wins.
Baseball isn't magic.
So having a good hitter isn't good because the other hitters suck.
This logic is interesting.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
That's a misrepresentation of what I said
But whatever.
No, it's not.
Just saying that he may be the wrong player for this team BECAUSE the rest of the offense is so inept.
Because the rest of the offense sucks, Cust is the wrong player for this team?
I have a strange idea, and I’d like your opinion: Get better hitters in the lineup with Cust!
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
No, that's a misrepresentation
Saying he’s the wrong player for this team doesn’t mean “having a good hitter isn’t good because the other players suck.”
What it means is that his skills (whatever they are) will be underutilized on this particular team. I also don’t particularly think he’s a good hitter - he has a good eye, but he’s a crappy hitter, and I think those are two different things.
He's a mediocre mistake-pitch hitter
…whose usefulness lies in the combination of power and (at least last year) a pretty good ability to lay off pitches outside the strike zone…and I say “pretty good” because he struck out too often with the bat sitting on his shoulder. You call that a “good hitter,” I call it someone with useful skills on particular teams.
…and whose value is somewhat diminished by his poor fielding skills.
Okay.
I mean, you’re wrong, but okay.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
I don't think he's wrong, mikev
Jack Hannahan, subbing for A-Rod in April and May, would have been a better and more valuable player for the Yankees than he was for the A’s over that same time.
Now I happen to think that overall, Cust is a valuable player, but his limited skill-set also means that the teams (surrounding players) on which he can be more useful is more limited.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No he wouldn't.
He’d still be Jack Hannahan. He’d still swing through mediocre fastballs that are chest high, and he’d still get more credit for his defense than he should.
The fact that he would have been surrounded by 8 other guys who hit the shit out of the ball doesn’t make him better, it just means he doesn’t get relied on as much.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
No, it means he would solidify an infield defense
that needed a 3Bman with excellent range, and that he could bat 9th on a team with plenty of offense around him.
His skill set, as is, would be far more useful to the Yankees than to the A’s, a team that can’t afford their 3Bman to be one of the worst hitters on an already bad hitting team.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The A's could afford it as well.
Provided they didn’t have Rajai Davis, Bobby Crosby, Orlando Cabrera, and Jason Giambi all wildly underperformaing (or just being shitty hitters).
Again, this goes back to the rest of the team sucking, and that has nothing to do with the player in question.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Someone help me out here.
You’re saying that Cust isn’t necessarily a bad hitter, but his particular skills are less useful on this team than they would be on another. So which skills are you talking about? Are you saying his HR skill goes to waste because we can’t get anyone in front of him to score on a HR? Or his walk skills go to waste because there’s no one behind him to drive him in? And if it’s both, then what the heck hitting skills would be useful on this team? because it seem to me like no hitting in front of him plus no hitting behind him pretty much covers everything.
Now, after richwol1 almost has me convinced that a guy like Cust, who is a good hitter but a crappy defender, would be more useful to another team than he is to us, Nico comes along and tells me that Hannahan, who is crappy hitter but a good defender, would also be more useful to another team than he is to us. OK, then what sort of player would be more useful to our team than to another team? Someone who is good at both? Crappy at both?
Or is the point that any player is better on another team than he is on the A’s, and that’s just how it is when you suck? In which case, what do you do about it? Just reject everyone?
I’m just not getting the logic here.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
That's because there is no logic here.
People don’t like Jack Cust. His style of hitting bothers them aesthetically, psychologically, goes against everything they learned in Little League…yada yada. So people make up a variety of outlandish and rather amusing reasons to confirm their bias.
It’s that simple.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 2, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty spot on
and pretty unfortunate.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
Or...
People who look at statistics without context will find any reason to put down those who don’t slavishly follow the dogma.
I disagree with your overall point.
And what context do I need to tell me that Jack Cust’s (lost) ability to get on base is good?
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
He may have struck out more often than most hitters.
But he made less outs.
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Because there was nobody on base.
RBIs are a team effort and don’t lie on one player’s shoulders. I’d say 80 RBIs on a team with such horrid OBP is pretty damn good.
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Sorry, but no
I looked back to see how the best RBI man did on the bottom OBP teams to see about how Cust fared compared to other players on other teams.
24: SF Giants…Molina 95 RBI
25: Cin Reds…Joey Votto 84 RBI (two other players with RBI totals of 78 & 74)
26: KC Royals…Jose Guillen 97 RBI
27 Pitt Pirates…Adam Laroche 85 RBI
28 Seattle Mariners…Raul Ibanez 110 RBI
29 Oakland A’s..Jack Cust 77 RBI
30 SD Padres…Adrian Gonzalez 119 RBI
Check the guys in front of him rather than the whole team.
Ibanez had Ichiro in front of him, SD’s OBP gets dragged down due to pitchers hitting.
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Cust
…had Suzuki and Sweeney in front of him. Mike Sweeney when he was healthy too. Those were the best OBP guys on the team, so yeah, I’m looking at them.
I'm talking about the other teams
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
How odd -- this year, the Ms
have Suzuki and Sweeney batting, and so do the A’s.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
hah
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Anyones skills will be underutilized on a team like this
has nothing to do with the type of hitter cust is. If it was a hitter like pujols you could still say “Well this type of hitter is underutilized, he can’t knock guys in because there’s nobody on base in front of him, and the guys behind him can’t knock him in. In conclusion, he doesn’t fit this lineup” Like I said, you can make the same exact argument for any player. Don’t blame cust, blame the hannahans, crosbys, and rajai davis’ of the team.
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Adrian Gonzalez
…in 2008 knocked in 119 runs on a team with an OBP lower than the A’s. Albert Pujols would knock in a whole lot more runs than Jack Cust under similar circumstances. Cust’s ability to walk isn’t as important as his ability to say, get a single in the #4 spot because a walk won’t drive in a run unless the bases are loaded, but a single very well might. Because the players behind him were so bad, a walk that might prove useful on a stronger team was useless on a team like the A’s.
Of course Gonzalez and Pujols would knock more runs in in similar situations.
They’re better. But i just think your whole argument about how he doesn’t fit with this lineup is dumb. It doesn’t actually mean anything. I mean, of course Cust would do better on a team with better guys surrounding him. He would have more RBI opportunities, and have more opportunities to get knocked in. But the A’s offense would also be significantly worse without him. I just don’t get where your argument leads.
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
Did you even WATCH last year?
The guy had plenty of chances to drive in runs, but either walked or struck out. Period. That’s why his on-base percentage was so good; he walked. Guys who walk don’t drive in runs.
This is true. He wasn't very good with runners in scoring position.
But i blame more of a small sample size than anything. His splits were the opposite the year before.
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
The discussion was about 2008
and not 2007. The problem with examining Cust’s 2007 splits is that when he first came up, he was the second coming of David Ortiz. But then pitchers caught up, and Cust crumbled. He came back a bit that September to even things out.
I think the reason the A’s tried to make him change his approach is because the walks weren’t getting runs home. So he became more aggressive and in a sense, lost half his value. When Geren placed him in the #2 slot against the Giants, Cust should have been trolling for walks and/or bunting to get on base. He did neither. It’s possible that in the #7 spot, without the pressure to either get on base all the time or hit homers, and surrounded by Sweeney and a resurgent Ellis, he’ll do okay and go back to who he was last year.
Pujols is better, sure.
Adrian Gonzalez is much better than Cust this year, but last year they weren’t too far apart in terms of OPS.
So I gather what richwol is saying is that there could be another hitter whose OPS+ was pretty much equal to Cust’s but who would be better for the A’s than Cust because it comes from different components (eg, fewer walks). Is that right?
So who would you put up as an example of a hitter on another team who is roughly as good as Cust where if the two were swapped straight across both teams would be slightly improved?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Interesting notion
The problem is that which Cust do you look at? This year’s model, or last year’s? And if you’re looking at last year’s, are you hypothetically looking at a player from last year, or someone from this year?
But you give the answer right there
Adrian Gonzalez would have been more valuable to the A’s last year than Cust, with a similar OPS+. The team desperately needed someone to drive in runs.
I find it hard to imagine a situation where Cust would be more valuable than a player with comparable OPS+ who is more adept at driving in runs. I have trouble imagining a situation where someone with similar OPS+ but a more standard skill set would ever be less valuable than Cust on any team.
Let me turn it around for a sec: If Giambi starts hitting this month, and Ellis and Sweeney continue their hot streaks, the pressure would be off Cust. Then his walks would be more valuable because there’d be someone to drive him in, and there wouldn’t be as much pressure to shoot for the fences.
OK, fair enough
I wasn’t very familiar with Adrian Gonzalez, but I just looked at his numbers and lined them up against Cust’s.
As percentage of plate appearances, I get:
Cust AGon single 10% 15% double 4% 5% homer 6% 6% walk 19% 11%
So basically, you’re looking for fewer walks and more base-hits, then. Right?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Go Team Venture!
This is just unacceptable. People are paying good money to go to the ball park. -Ken Korach
Sounds like a nice win
Of course, being in Frisco (TX) right now means I couldn’t really watch it. ;-)
I’m getting ready for the Texas League All-Star Game in about two hours and in about an hour they’ll be having their home run derby. Chris Carter’s in it. He and Adrian Cardenas are starting for Midland with a number of other RockHounds selected to the game. I’ll try to give a brief summary before bed and tomorrow’s flight back home.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
Just back from the game...very nice
Lemme tell you, that was ideal baseball weather. Not too cool, not too hot, just perfect. Blue blue skies, and a good-sized crowd in the park.
I got a bleacher seat, but not the $2 kind…all sold out.
I roamed around, starting at the RF foul line. I was in the RF bleachers for Cust’s HR. Compared to my side view observation of the blast, Vince Controneo’s call was lame. For the first 250 feet, the ball was propelled with incredible, breathtaking speed. There was a collective gasp from the surrounding fans as it cleared the infield. It slowed a bit as it passed over the left fielder about fifty feet up, and gutteral roar from the dense sea of bleacher fans started right then and grew loud fast; we knew it was gone. The ball slowed, but kept ascending until it landed deep in the LF grandstands.
Even a guy wearing a Verlander jersey and Tigers ballcap leapt to his feet. It was blast bordering on astonishing.
I always thought the highest MPH speed (anecdotal visual take) I ever saw on hard-hit ball was a Dave Winfield hit to centerfield. But I have to say, the Cust blast was truly impressive off the bat. Verlander was hitting mid-90’s all day, and Cust truly “turned one around”.
Giambi’s HR was no doubt about it too. I saw that from a seat just inside the promenade behind the Tigers’ dugout.
Lots of balls hit to the warning track today. Good game all the way around.
For some reason, Suzuki’s bat speed seemed much more impressive today, from RF, than it ever looks on TV. I was certain his sizzling liner in the first inning was “run(s)” and extra bases, but it was right at the left fielder.
Braden was tough when he needed to be, and it was great to see that, rather than the typical (A’s) leakage on the pitching mound in close games.
"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw
by One won lost won on Jul 1, 2009 3:54 PM PDT reply actions
Pepe
whatever (legitimate) complaints we all surely have, this guy is not among them, and really beyond the usual rookie pitcher pains with the other guys, they have exceeded expectations IMO.
As bad as this is, last place and sort of laughingstock/forgotten status for a while, I think by the time the damn Moneyball film gets made and released (2011?) we are legit WS contenders again… any hitting at all as these pitchers develop will get to be enough by ‘11 if the learning curve for BOMAC is as steep as it appears. Of course we won’t see Outman again probably until then, but we are still pretty stacked without him, especially if either Gonzalez can take steps forward in Outman’s absence.
OK, temporary optimism over, this typing hurts my back and I’m hungry, time for a sammitch.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
Cust or Barton?
I agree I would be playing Sweeney, Buck, and Davis. I disagree about Barton. He looks
lost at the plate and strikes out like Cust without his Power. Whats the fascination there?
the guy he would be replacing is 38
hittting .199 and a terrible defender. Last year was a disaster for barton and he hit 30 points higher than Giambi +Barton is only 22-23
HILLIS
And Barton plays much much much much better defense.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
No question about it...
Braden better be the A’s All Star.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on Jul 1, 2009 4:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
No foolin'
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
there was spurious talk in the game thread today about Suzuki.
I’d just like weird-ass Braden to represent us to the rest of the league. Sure, we suck. But we’ve got character.
This is just unacceptable. People are paying good money to go to the ball park. -Ken Korach
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 1, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, and not just any character.
He’s got the bad boy exterior but underneath is a heart of gold. Unlike some other players who have the bad boy exterior and are basically just narcissistic assholes.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
hey, I'm not narcissistic.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
agreed, Bloom.
He would be a welcome sight at the ASG if nothing else than it’s his kind of gig.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Glad to be wrong
I have to admit I didn’t think much of Dallas Braden coming into the season. I didn’t think he had big league stuff and was at best a #5 starter but now half way through the season I think it’s pretty obvious I was wrong.
Braden along with Cahill,Mazzaro and maybe Anderson really give the A’s a nice foundation in the rotation. Now if they could just get any freakin’ hitters to go along with this young pitching.
Since it’s become a point of debate I’ve always felt Jack Cust is a complementary player and you don’t want him in there everyday. He’s a corpse in the outfield and while I know people will point out a myriad of stats to defend him I think as a hitter he’s limited. He has some pop but that’s about it as he’s not even hitting his weight in BA. I don’t think a guy like Jack Cust is a everyday player on a championship team and I’d rather see some of the other OF’s get a shot to play.
To me the best A’s team right now has Buck,Holliday and Sweeney in the outfield. I’d like to see Barton get another chance at first and have Giambi DH everyday. Call me crazy but I still think Jason has something left but playing him at 1B all the time has worn him down. Have Ellis,Cabrera and President Kennedy round out the infield and I think this is the team that gives the A’s their best chance to win. Of course since I was wrong about Braden it’s entirely possible I’m talking out of my ass here, we’ll see.
So, if you had to have one out of Giambi or Cust sitting
you’d have Cust sitting and Giambi at DH?
I'm sorry you feel that way
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
I was ready to flame you, but damn…Cust is hitting terribly lately.
One thing though, if you take a look at his hit chart there are a lot of balls that are very close to being HRs. If the six outs that are right on the wall go over the fence, we’re not even having this conversation.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerHitChart?categoryId=103890
Well, they weren't homeruns though
and that’s my point. Homers are Cust’s main claim to fame because what else does he do. Now I know people will say hey Giambi is pretty much the same but Giambi has been a main cog on a winning team and I still think if he wasn’t playing all the time at 1B he could do some damage.
Cust on the other hand has never been been a fixture on a winning team and while I don’t blame him for the A’s woes the last three years he’s been a big part of all three of these losing teams. In the end I think we’ve seen all Jack Cust can do and it’s not a whole lot so I’ll go with Giambi and hope he has something left.
so you don't blame Cust for the A's woes
but you say he was a big part of those losing teams. I’m confused.
My heart says Giambi has something left but my eyes see a bat that has a hard time catching up to a decent fastball. If I had to choose between Cust and Giambi getting more playing time right now I would choose Cust.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Why the confusion?
He has been a big part of these losing teams but I don’t think in baseball it’s fair to put a lot of blame on one player. If Cust had been a great hitter the past couple of seasons the A’s still would have not been a great team as they have many other problems.
My point is that Cust isn’t a above average hitter and you need at least five good hitters in the A.L. to have a chance to compete unless you have amazing pitching so why not try some other players?
Cust has not hit well this year
but his OPS+ in 2007 was 147, and last year was 132. He gets on base a lot, hits lots of HRs, and rarely GIDPs. To claim that a hitter with OPS+s of 147 and 132 in his only full-time seasons in the big leagues “isn’t above average” is pretty nuts.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Jack Cust
has never hit more than 33 homeruns, he’s never had more than 82 RBI’s and he’s struck out at Rob Deer like levels. I’m not saying he’s the worst player ever but to say he hits lots of HR’s isn’t acurate. I know Cust has his defenders and that’s fine but for a corner outfielder which is how he should be judged I think he’s bellow average. You may be right that I’m nuts however.
He hit 33 HRs in a full season and 26 in a partial season
He has been a “30 HR guy” plain and simple.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well he's only hit 30 HR's once
and again I think it is only fair to compare him to corner outfielders, 1B and DH’s. My question is then compared to these types of players is he a above average hitter? I’m asking here?
I’ll admit I’m not as sophisticated as some on many of these stats but I’m willing to learn. What is Cust’s OPS compared to the types of players I’ve brought up? If I’m wrong I’ll admit it as it’s something I’ve had to get used to in this life.
He hit 26 HRs in 2007, when he was first called up in May
In other words, he averaged 30 HRs for the 5/6 of a season he was up, then hit 33 in his first full season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I understand he
didn’t play a full season when he hit 26 homers but I’m not big in the whole he would have averaged this sort of argument. The fact is he’s still only hit 30 HR’s once. I may be being to literal here but I like actual facts not projected ones. Besides I concede that Cust is a power hitter all I’m saying is that ‘s all he is and I think he’s deficient in everything else.
YEAH NICO, 26 ISN'T 30 WHAT ARE YOU SOME KINDA DUMMY????
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
That's a tough bar to hit
Cust has only played one full season and he hit 30+ homeruns in that season. Would you say that Evan Longoria isn’t much of a power hitter because he has never had a 30 homer season?
I'm not saying Cust isn't much of a power hitter
I’ve said that 33 HR’s isn’t hitting “lots of HR’s” at least for a player who plays LF,RF,1B,DH. I’ve conceded Cust can hit for power I’m just asking does that one single fact make him above average and should he be getting at bats instead of Buck, Barton and Giambi?
33 HR's is a lot of HR's
But that’s besides the point because he also gets on base much better than most of the players in the majors. Plain and simple Cust has been a far above-average hitter the past two seasons but for some reason the coaching staff felt it prudent to change his approach this season and it’s totally ruined him as a hitter.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
A stat even I understand
Okay so I did some research on the 2008 season since it was Cust’s first full season with A’s. A stat I’ve always liked is total bases and Cust ranked 44 in total bases in 2008.
Oddly enough Jason Giambi ranked 43 and had 1 more TB in 30 fewer at bats. Cust had 229 TB’s and the league average is 224. Since this average factors in SS,2B,C and other light hitting positions I’m going to say Cust is just average and go down swinging on this one.
The one thing I might have changed my mind on is the whole Giambi vs Cust argument. I don’t think it matters who gets the at bats at DH between them as their both pretty similar at this point.
I just hope that Buck will start getting playing time and I’d like to see Barton come back up.
Agree about Buck...he just needs the chance to play everyday.
Hopefully, the management stops dicking him around and they have kissed and made up.
Barton, I want to see him play everyday but I doubt it’s gonna happen unless the team trades Holliday first, slides Cust over to left, and then Giambi can DH full time and be a backup 1st baseman.
For now, at least he’s gonna get regular bats in Sacto which is still not a bad thing for him. He is still really young and can still be a decent player in this league, but maybe not a can’t miss prospect anymore. We’ll see I guess…
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
But the Nomar experiment doesn't make any sense anymore.
Petit or Penington could come up as a backup again, maybe… don’t know.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
Poor stat to choose
Cust played in a big pitcher’s park while Giambi and a lot of other hitters got to hit in parks more conducive to their talents. OPS+ is a stat that adjusts a players performance to a neutral ballpark. I’ll use their 2008 stats because they both played the whole season and they both had good years. Cust’s OPS+ was 132 while Giambi’s was 128. Not a huge difference but still it’s in Cust’s favor. Factor in Cust’s OPS+ of 147 in his 5/6 of a season in ‘07 and you can clearly see that he wasn’t just average, he was above-average.
Now I fully agree that Cust is nothing special this year, managing a measly OPS+ of 94 (Giambi’s is 92 so far) so far but if I were to pick one of these guys to be in the lineup on a daily basis it would definitely be Cust because he is 30 and Giambi is 38.
For fun I looked up Adam Dunn’s OPS+ numbers and in for ‘07 and ’08 he put up numbers of 136 and 129 respectively. Those numbers are inferior to Cust’s despite Dunn hitting 40 HR’s both years and have TB numbers of 289 and 265 respectively. Cust’s were 199 and 229.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
I guess we can all come up with stats that
prove our arguments and hell arguing about sports is half the fun.
I think your point about OPS does lead me to the same conclusion I made with TB’s that Cust and Giambi are similar so it doesn’t matter much who gets the at bat between them.
Hashing things out like this is why I enjoy AN so much as a website even when no one seems to agree with me.
The reason I like OPS
Is because, simply, it combines on-base skills and slugging prowess into one easy to read stat. Then OPS+ is able to neutralize all the park conditions to give you a better reading of a player’s performance.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
yeah, the problem is
when a player looks OK in the stats but looks like shit on the field…
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 2, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
sirbed at 11:32
I’ll admit I’m not as sophisticated as some on many of these stats but I’m willing to learn. What is Cust’s OPS compared to the types of players I’ve brought up? If I’m wrong I’ll admit it as it’s something I’ve had to get used to in this life.
Helloooo 1st @ 12:59
For fun I looked up Adam Dunn’s OPS+ numbers and in for ‘07 and ’08 he put up numbers of 136 and 129 respectively. Those numbers are inferior to Cust’s despite Dunn hitting 40 HR’s both years and have TB numbers of 289 and 265 respectively. Cust’s were 199 and 229.
sirbed at 1:13
I guess we can all come up with stats that prove our arguments
Come on sirbed, gimme a break. You ask for a statistical comparison, then Helloooo 1st gives you exactly what you ask for, and you say, “stats schmats!”?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Just looking at the times of day makes me want to ask,
“Hey sirbed, where’s the last part of your name?”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You guys were arguing late into the night,
while sensible (i.e. old) folks like me were sound asleep in bed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Teachers rock
{gives high five over internet}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That reminds me of a very GCV worthy T-Shirt.
I’ll show you one day.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
I'm older than you, Nico,
and I was up all night. Couldn’t sleep.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I don't get the "last part of your name" line either.
Me, I read “sirbed” the same way I used to read “reztips”, though I don’t know if that works out by intention or by accident.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
it's just "Sir" and my initials B E D
I was knighted by the doesn’t know squat about stats foundation.
I did not say "stats schmats"
and you know it. I’ve already said I changed my mind about Giambi vs Cust and said that it doesn’t matter who gets the at bats between them.
I like Total Bases as a stat more then OPS but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand the what Hellooo 1 was trying to say and I admit I’m a minority of one here on my opinion of Cust.
Now I like iglew’s break down of homerun hitting quite a bit. I like actual stats not projected ones and I think iglew makes some good points.
So I did say flame away and many of you did fair enough I feel slightly crispy at the moment.
Eh, don't worry about it.
It’s a nice conversation to have, even though it’s a recycled one. But as long as a guy is playing ball at the MLB level, his performance is going to be dissected almost weekly. I happen to think Cust is a good hitter, if you take him for what he can and can’t do. Which doesn’t mean that I don’t suffer from heart palpitations every time he comes to bat with runners on base. I’m always wondering which of the 3 outcomes he’s going to provide on a given day.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I believe in
recycling even if it’s conversations or wit and I do like the passion many of the ANer’s have even while calling me a moron.
actual stats vs projected ones
I’ll point this out before someone else does less politely. When I presented hitters in terms of HR-per-game, I was really looking at the same thing Nico was when he said Cust averaged 30 HR per season in his partial season.
I could see that the idea of what “he would have hit” was a sticking point with you. I could also see that Nico wasn’t really trying to play “what if”; he just wanted to make a better comparison by giving all hitters the same denominator.
All I did was find another way of saying the same thing without it sounding like a hypothetical.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Thanks for being kind iglew
I think I finally get what all you guys are saying and I concede that Cust is a power hitter I just don’t think that alone makes him a above average player for a corner outfielder which was I think the point I was trying to make but failed.
At the plate I think produces enough
to be considered a productive corner outfielder, though not in the traditional sense (high batting average/situational hitting etc), but he doesn’t have the glove to play the position.
He’s a DH, though that obviously lessens his overall value; there’s a good statistical breakdown somewhere, I think it’s FanGraphs, which says that the average DH is pretty rubbish when you consider their value to the team (I think the stat is Wins above Replacement).
On the A’s, sadly, he’s our second best hitter, whatever his flaws.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
*At the plate I think Cust produces enough....
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
Home runs per game
If you judge whether Cust “hits lots of home runs” by the fact that he has only once hit 30 in a season, all you’re really registering is how few full seasons Cust has played.
More relevant, I think, is how often he hits home runs in games he does play. So let’s take a look. In his career he has 414 games and 77 HRs. That works out to 0.186 HR per game.
Now I really don’t have much sense of whether that’s high or low, so I looked up the number for a bunch of other well-known sluggers. (The actual ratio is not recorded anywhere I know of; I just looked up total games and total HRs and figured the ratio myself.) Then, to give a fuller comparison, I looked up a few more sluggers of more modest reputation and also some guys who are good hitters but not known for home runs.
Here’s my list.
0.311 – Mark McGwire – 583/1874
0.270 – Alex Rodriguez – 565/2089
0.259 – Sammy Sosa – 609/2354
0.255 – Barry Bonds – 762/2986
0.250 – Manny Ramirez – 533/2130
0.249 – Jim Thome – 554/2222
0.245 – Jose Canseco – 462/1887
0.240 – Ken Griffey Jr – 620/2580
0.228 – Mark Teixeira – 223/976
0.220 – Vladimir Guerrero – 394/1789
0.219 – Evan Longoria – 43/196
0.216 – David Ortiz – 297/1371
0.213 – Carlos Peña – 186/872
0.211 – Jason Giambi – 406/1923
0.203 – Josh Hamilton – 57/281
0.200 – Miguel Cabrera – 191/955
0.198 – Jason Bay – 168/846
0.192 – Paul Konerko – 311/1623
0.188 – Justin Morneau – 152/810
0.187 – Jermaine Dye – 316/1692
0.186 – Jack Cust – 77/414
0.182 – Russell Branyan – 152/833
0.178 – Eric Chavez – 229/1287
0.175 – Matt Holliday 136/773
0.172 – Nick Swisher – 118/685
0.164 – Scott Rolen – 277/1687
0.159 – Torii Hunter – 230/1450
0.159 – Ian Kinsler – 71/446
0.130 – Ivan Rodriguez – 302/2331
0.128 – Kevin Youkilis – 79/616
0.105 – Derek Jeter – 215/2055
0.097 – Michael Young – 125/1289
0.096 – Johnny Damon – 197/2059
0.094 – Joe Mauer – 58/615
0.059 – Ichiro Suzuki – 79/1348
0.057 – Marco Scutaro – 44/775
Clearly Cust does not belong in the same company as the elite sluggers. On the other hand, he scores noticeably higher than other very good hitters who aren’t big boppers. I think the most helpful comparison is to see the guys who score very close to Cust … guys like Dye and Morneau. Would you say those guys “hit lots of home runs”?
A few notes: My sample is not scientifically selected; basically, it’s just a bunch of names that came to mind as guys to look up. I stuck mostly with AL hitters, since that’s the names I know.
All I’m doing is counting total HRs against total games. There’s no attempt to adjust for park (which presumably depresses Cust’s numbers somewhat). Another possible issue is that I’m counting games rather than ABs. I doubt that makes much difference, but it might slightly depress the numbers of a guy who is more likely to come in for a single pinch-hit appearance on a day that otherwise would be off.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
One more.
What was I thinking? Leaving poor Marco on the bottom of the list like that. I should have finished it off with:
0.038 – Jason Kendall – 73/1901
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Could've finished it with Rafael Bournigal as well
Though I think your numbers would’ve been a lot easier to picture if you’d flipped it around and showed how many games each player averaged between homers. In McGwire’s case it was one every 3.2 games. For Griffey, every 4.2. For Cust, every 5.4. For Jeter, every 9.6. For Kendall, every 26.0.
And so on.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
I thought about doing it that way,
but for my brain, the idea of a fractional HR per game is more direct than one HR per X games.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Another possible issue is that I’m counting games rather than ABs. I doubt that makes much difference, but it might slightly depress the numbers of a guy who is more likely to come in for a single pinch-hit appearance on a day that otherwise would be off.
And I guess be biased against those with poorer offenses (fewer plate appearances)?
Baseball isn't magic.
Rob Deer Was Better
I grew up in Milwaukee. I’d groan every time Rob Deer came to the plate. Cust does have very Rob Deer-like numbers so far:
Deer Career Average (for 162 Game season): HR: 32 SO:198 BA:.220 OPS:109
Cust Career Average (for 162 Game season): HR:30 SO:196 BA:236 OPS:124
But Deer was a far better outfielder. That said, both are the type of players – demoralizing strike out specialists who seem to hit their dingers when the team is already way ahead – that you don’t find on playoff caliber teams.
They're there....
on those playoff caliber teams. But when they produce, it’s in high leverage situations. The eyes can be deceiving.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Wow, man. That's, like, deep.
Woah.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Deer swung for the fences and provided
air conditioning for the catcher and ump behind him with all the missed swings. I’ll take your word for his defense as I only remember the mamoth homers and the strike-outs. I’m sure he could field better than Cust who is one of the worst outfielders in all of baseball.
all but 1 of Cust's Home Runs this year
have tied the game or put the A’s ahead. This according to Ray Fosse yesterday. Cust has a bunch of “clutch” homers.
He does strike out a lot though.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
That's mostly because A's games are always 0-0,
until Cust HRs or the other team hits a couple of pop-ups.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
true
but the theory was he only seemingly hits a HR when the A’s are really far ahead. He would almost never hit a HR if that were true.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
The A's announce team was saying last night that all but one of
Cust’s homers this year have put the team ahead or brought then level.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
You sound like you are saying Cust was one of the reasons those teams lost
(which is incorrect as Nick has pointed out) but then you say it isn’t fair to blame it all on him. That is why I was confused. I can kind of see your point now.
I agree Cust has a few problems hitting and fielding this year but he is a whole lot better than some of the alternatives. I say address other problems 1st.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Saying a player is a big part of a losing team
is the same thing as putting a lot of blame on him.
I realized I was dyslexic when I went to a toga party dressed as a goat.
I have been kind of waiting since May....and continue to.
"Hopefully we’ll start to get hot," Giambi said. "Hopefully it’s coming around. I’ve been kind of waiting."
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
Hey guys, just had to tell yall
Went to double AA all star game home run dervy last night in frisco. Chris Carter hit some unreal homeruns, he was hitting them on the streets, i couldnt believe it
ya he is gonna be special
along with cardenas and weeks and maybe green.(We have great infield hitting prospects)
HILLIS
Did he win the derby?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
It's a little like Duck Duck Goose,
except with more blood…
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 2, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Now that was a fun game
Fantastic weather. Cabrera looks like he’s found a groove. Braden looked very tough mentally. Giambi made a fine defensive play.
But…OK, I’ll rain on this parade a bit, Giambi does not have anything left in the tank. He guessed change up on his dinger and guessed right. On his other two at bats he looked beyond pathetic. And Geren puts him in at clean up? I don’t understand that at all.
Forking saxeT blows against the slegnA
Frank Fucking Francisco lookd like garbage from the time he came in until the time he gave up a 3 run bomb
Hank Blalock sends the slegnA into oblivion
as the morons decide to pitch to him with 1st base open and not bother with the fact that he had already homered and doubled in the game.
He swings at the first pitch (A’s hitters take note) and sends a bomb to dead center and onto the grass and sends the slegnA back to California with their tails between their legs.
I have that warm and fuzzy feeling after that.
My slegnA friend calls up to rub it in about Juan Rivera tying the game. I called him back and said GAME OVER.
Go Rangers!!!
A team with a real manager; a team that isn’t the Angels.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Oh how I wish Wash was managing our team
The errors would not be tolerated.
He would not put up with Beane’s interference (That is why he is not manager) LOL
He would do it his way as it should be done.
I've heard so many conflicting things on this
about the reason why Geren was chosen over Washington. It’s just become accepted fact that it’s because Geren is Beane’s best buddy but I wonder if the success Geren had in Sacramento had anything to do with it.
Washington had never managed at any level and maybe Beane didn’t think someone with no managing experience should get the job. Also since Macha was fired for being a red ass maybe Beane thought the softer touch that Geren would bring was the way to go.
I don’t want to seem like I’m saying I’m glad Geren is the manager instead of Washington I’m just wondering out loud and besides if I were running the team Macha would have never been fired.
Repeating myself
(1) Actually I think Washington would put up with Beane’s interference. He wouldn’t like it, but he’d go along. More important, if Wash were manager, Beane would be interfering more, and that would be a good thing. The problem with Geren is that Beane doesn’t interfere enough.
(2) I believe the reason that Geren was chosen over Washington is that Washington wasn’t available. In 2004 he certainly would have taken the job in Oakland, but by 2006 he preferred Texas. He interviewed for the Oakland job but only as a second choice, and he wouldn’t say yes to Beane until he got an answer from Texas first. That’s why the Oakland announcement was delayed, and once Texas chose Wash he was out of the running for us.
Both of these are mere speculation on my part, of course, but I think they’re consistent with the evidence.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Interesting point about Washington
wanting the Texas job over the A’s. I guess since Texas spends more maybe Washington thought it was a better job. By the way iglew I thought your break down of HR hitting was terrific and it was the best argument I read about Cust.
Also, Wash is from Louisiana, so the TX job is much closer to home for him
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
And folks, we have a reason...
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 2, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I think for Wash it was about
(1) geography, (2) presumption he’d have more freedom of action, (3) wanting to start fresh in a new place. If payroll is a factor at all, I think it’s somewhere below those three.
He spoke openly about wanting to be closer to home. The others are more speculation by me.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Ironically (or maybe not), I wasn't trying to advance any
argument about Cust. I honestly wasn’t sure where he would line up against the other guys, so I decided to find out. I was mildly surprised. I think I expected him to rank a little higher, but I really didn’t know.
There were some other surprises that were even bigger for me. I had no idea McGwire would be that far ahead of everyone else. I figured him to be on top with Bonds, A-Rod, etc, but that’s a huge gap between him and the next guy.
Also some non-HR guys surprised me. Like Jeter. I knew he isn’t a HR hitter, but I didn’t realize he was that far below the others. Same idea for Mauer.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Mauer hasn't shown much power until this year
and Big Mac despite everything was a slugger for the ages as he not only hit homeruns at a high rate but some of his shots went on like the ball at the end of “The Natural”and never landed.
What site did you use? I like baseball reference as they have everything.
Yes, Baseball Reference
I just went to the front page for each player and copied down the numbers for career HRs and career games.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Mauer's career SLG is .476
He’s not a 30 homer guy, but he’s got plenty of pop.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Until this season Joe Mauer's
career high in homers was 13 and he had only 16 homeruns the last two seasons combined so I think it’s fair to say he hasn’t shown much power until this season.
But there is no doubt he’s a great player who if he can stay healthy is on his way to a hall of fame type career.
It's hard for you to comprehend that there're more to "power" than just hitting home runs, isn't it?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Doubt that.
I’m dumb.
However, when a guy has a career slugging percentage of .476, he’s got power. He may not hit a lot of home runs, but he’s got power.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
It's good to know I'm not
the only dumb person here. I get your point about SLG% I’m just being a cranky pants. Like I said there is no doubt Mauer is a great player.
First of all, we don't actually know that.
If Billy had said “Wash, the job is yours” and Wash said, “hmm, let me think about that and I’ll get back to you on that”, there’s no reason to think either of them would tell us about it afterward.
But no, I doubt it would be as direct as that. When multiple options are being considered, there’s always a bit of a dance around it.
When you apply for two jobs, you know that if only one is offered you will take the one. You also probably know which one you would take if both were available. It is commonplace to assume that when a team has a first choice and a second choice, it won’t make an offer to the second until it knows if the first is off the table. Why is it so hard to imagine the same thing works in the other direction?
For that matter, Beane could well have asked Wash directly in the interview: “If you were offered the job both here and in Texas, which would you take?”, possibly followed by “If I offer you the Oakland job right now, would you accept it right now before hearing an answer from Texas?”
But really, I don’t think he would even need to ask. They’d worked together long enough, and they have ways of knowing these things.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Wash had inferred it, actually
even the year before, when he interviewed for Tampa Bay, he talked quite a bit of wanting a chance to manage, and looking for the opportunity. He gave the impression that he would have accepted, had the job been offered. In interviews where he talked about his desire to manage he did mention his love for teaching young players, but he never once indicated any geographic preference.
Of course, you and I don’t have any inside information. But there is really nothing at all to suggest that Wash was ever offered the manager’s job by the A’s or the Rays. Wash
Just to be clear.
I agree that Wash was not offered the job by the Rays after the 2005 season. I think he certainly would have taken it if offered.
I also agree that Wash was never offered the A’s job at the end of the 2005 season, when we briefly thought Macha would be let go. I think Wash might well have been a candidate if Macha had not mysteriously come back after that week of confusion, and I’m sure he’d have taken the job then if it was offered.
My argument is after the 2006 season, Wash was in demand in two different cities (at least) and of those two Oakland was not the one he preferred. Had Beane offered him the job then, when he was among the interviewees, I think Wash would have wanted to wait for an answer from Texas first.
By the way, about that weird Macha firing and rehiring, I think it may have been a similar situation. Clearly there was some miscommunication, but I wonder if the key event there was that Macha was hoping to be hired by the Pirates, and in anticipation of that he let it be known to Beane that he wasn’t interested in renewing for another year. Then, for whatever reason, the Pittsburgh maybe-offer fell through, so Macha was ready to come back to Oakland, which was his second choice.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Red Ass????
I live in the south now and it’s a slang I’ve heard that means someone who gets pissed from time to time and isn’t afraid to show it. Macha wasn’t Billy Martin but he did get fired up more then Art Howe or Mr. Happy Bob Geren.
Red Ass
was a term used to deride players from the fifties, sixties, and seventies. It was an epitaph hung early on a young Pete Rose. Back then it referred to a player who was a “Charlie Hustle”, a guy who was trying to make the squad on grit rather than skill. In fact, Rose embodied the essence of the term to such an extent that he was eventually nick named Charlie Hustle. At the time, it was not a term of endearment.
I think the term “Red Ass” has since morphed into someone who has a fiery temperament.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Other archaic terms
hose= arm
moss = hair
mullion = ugly road beef
"Flea Markets aren't just for blind dates anymore!"- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 2, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was just making a joke.
I love wikipedia.
Nico: Okay. We have twelve hours to make a really big pickle.
As with so many Internet phenomena,
Wikipedia does not represent a decline in standards so much as an increase in awareness of what the standards were all along. There are plenty of printed reference books that are equally unreliable, but somehow they seem more authoritative.
There are a great many topics on which Wikipedia is actually more reliable than Britannica. That said, it varies enormously by field.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Don't I know it - when I started my Independent Study in my 3rd year
the first thing the module leader said was “Don’t trust textbooks, they’re not peer assessed.”
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
Textbooks aren't peer-assed, but are they red-assed?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Oh hells no.
Yet another gal on my ass for failing to live up to expectations?
One of these days I’m going to do more than just chew on the end of that gun barrel. You’re on notice though, because I’ve already decided that I damn sure ain’t going to that long night alone! So you better just watch yourself missy! ;)
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
When did "redass" become a semi-positive term?
Here’s how Bill “Spaceman” Lee described Rick Burleson:
“I had never met a red-ass like Rick in my life. Some guys don’t like to lose, but Rick got angry if the score was even tied. … The moment he reported to camp (in his rookie year), he brought a fire to the club that we had been lacking.”
I think that quote (which I found here (warning — Red Sox fan site!)) is from one of Lee’s books, maybe the one he wrote in the early 80s. Still, it sounds like he thought of Burleson as a “red-ass” at the time he met him in Spring Training, 1974.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
So it's not a kinky sex game then.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
it can be.
Anything can be, really, if you’re in the right frame of mind.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
I never take wikipedia as the final authority on anything important but
it’s great for pop culture kind of stuff and I can’t think of anything I’ve read on it that is totally false.
Just to defend the sanctity of my honor
from hot young chicks that have nothing better to do than poke old bears in the eye with a stick, I did not reference wiki. The information was actually gleaned from a documentary on Sports Center from a few years ago.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Athletics Nation
Related FanShots on Athletics Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Chris Johnson’s glove webbing had a Spidey sense at Coors Field — for one play, at least
- Jonathan Lucroy breaks hand after suitcase falls during search for sock
- The Juice: Long Adam Dunn homer punctuates Chris Sale’s 15 Ks, Mark Trumbo goes deep after Jered Weaver goes down for Angels
- Leyland begs media to make umpires ‘accountable’ for bad calls (VIDEO)
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
