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Around SBN: Notre Dame's Turnaround: How Have The Irish Done It?

The new Oakland Athletic: Grant Green


I'm sure we'll all read a ton about Green in the next few days.  And I'm sure someone has scooped me already. But I'd like to give my humble attempt to give you a little bit of outside information.

Star-divide

Green went to high school at Canyon High in Anaheim Hills. He won the ROY there in 2004 after batting 31-72 (.430 AVG) as a sophomore. He followed up going 40-88 his junior year (.455 average) with 3 HRs and 14 SBs.  His senior year (2006) he batted a similar .453 with 4 HRs and again 14 SBs. In 2005, he was a member of Team USA's junior team along with Brett Anderson and Adrian Cardenas. At the 2005 Pan Am Championships, he hit .412.

Heading into the 2006 draft, Green was considered to be around a 3rd round pick talent-wise, but USC offered him a scholarship.  Signability allowed Green to fall.  Green was first drafted by the Padres in the 14th round in 2006 and he wanted $1.4 million to sign.  That 1.4 million was mid to late first round money or what the Astros paid Max Sapp with the 23rd pick

San Diego decided that 1.4 million was too much and Green went to USC.  His freshman year he was the starting SS.  He hit .316/.388/.491/.879.  He showed some power with 26 XBH: 14 doubles, 10 triples (a USC record), and two home runs.  He added 6 SBs.  His K/BB was 51/25.  He also played in the Cape Cod league and there was named the 18th best prospect in the league after playing for the Yarmouth-Dennis Red Sox.  He played every infield position and he hit .291 with four home runs and 11 stolen bases.

Sophomore year was more of the same for Green:.390/.438/.644/1.082.  He hit 29 XBH: 15 doubles, five triples, nine home runs.  He had 10 SBs.  His K/BB was 35/15.  Green was looking like a very solid prospect going into the summer.  But it was when he went to the Cape Cod League that he really made a name for himself.

He hit .348/.451/.537/.988 with 6 HRs and 19 XBH.  He stole 10 bases. Fittingly, he played for the Chatham A's.  His performance earned him the Robert A. McNeece Outstanding Pro Prospect Award as the league's top pro prospect, besting Ackley among others.  He also was the All-Star game MVP with a game-tying HR in the 8th inning.   He looked poised for a breakout in 2009 and was being compared to Longoria by his Cape Cod coach John Schiffner

Going into his junior year, Green was the consensus favorite for the number two pick.  On February 6th, Jim Callis said "I think Green has more power and upside with the bat [than Tim Beckham]."  Going into the season, Green was sitting on top of the world. A few questioned his low walk percentage but he had cut down his strikeout percentage between his freshman and sophomore campaign.

And then 2009 happened.  Green started out very, very slowly.  But after 110 PAs, Green had gotten his triple slash in familiar territory.  Green was hitting .375/.455/.552/1.007.  However underneath that lay many warning signs.  He had 11 walks and 22 strikeouts. His BABIP was .472, 139 points higher than the PAC-10 average BABIP.  His near 20 strikeout percentage and near 10 walk percentage was not a recipe for MLB success.  In fact, only one quality major leaguer has succeeded with a less than 10% BB percentage in college since 2001: Troy Tulowitski.

Green's line now sits at .374/.429/.569/.997. He has 24 XBH, 16 SBs, and a 38/20 K/BB ration.  He has a .444 BABIP and 8.6 BB%.  His K% is 16%.  Beyond the Boxscore's adjusted GPA (I'll let them explain it if you click on the link) for Green sits at .341, well below Ackley's .431 or Wheeler's .432.

Then again, the draft is as much about tools as stats. The adjusted OPS leaders of college are as littered with Dan Johnson and John McCurdys as Ryan Brauns.  

Green is a toolshed.  After all, he wouldn't have drawn any comparisons to Longoria and Tulo if he wasn't a 5 tool athlete.  He stands at 6'3 180 and swings RH. 

From BaseballBeginnings his scouting grades 80 being the highest (Now/Future):

Hit 40/65
Power 40/55
Run 50/50
Arm 45/50
Field 40/50

From TheBaseballCube 100 being the highest:

Power 85
Speed 66
Contact 45
Patience 41

Green's swing is not built for power but for average.  Take it from him:

"When I came here [to USC], Coach (Chad) Kreuter told me I had a Japanese-type swing. I was really compact and I hit everything to right field. They widened me out.

...

I kind of fought it at first. Coach Doyle (Wilson) came in after my freshman year and pretty much tried to change my swing. I was stubborn. It worked. I had been a freshman All-American and went out to the Cape and did well. I was fighting him a little bit, but when he sat me down one day and said, ‘This is exactly what we want to do. I’ll show you some tapes of big leaguers who have it.’ As I thought about it more and more, it made sense. He was working with me on getting the swing planted as fast as possible and as long as possible. It made sense, so I started to buy into it. I had a really steep bat angle and he was really big on getting it to the hitting plane as soon as possible and staying there a long time."

This change in his swing could be partially responsible for early season struggles. 

Ok, I think that's enough links for now.  In summary, Green's defense, effort, walk rate, and power are sometimes questioned.  But he seems like a great average hitter with a chance to develop 15 HR power.  Anytime you can pick up the guy who was considered the #2 pick a couple months ago at 13 you have to do it.

Poll
Overall, do you like the pick?
Yes
304 votes
No
20 votes

324 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 35 comments  |  8 recs  | 

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Comments

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I don’t know anything about college baseball, but yeah, this pick makes sense to me.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 9, 2009 6:24 PM PDT reply actions  

+1

I don’t follow college prospects until the days leading up to the draft and everything I’ve heard/read about Green makes me believe that he was a good to great pick at #13. I wasn’t a fan of Scheppers because I would avoid pitchers with arm injury history at all costs.

Overall, it was a fun day for me because this is the first time I’ve gotten a chance to watch the draft and it’s the first draft in any sport that I’ve had an intense interest in. When it came time for the A’s pick my palms were sweating and I was half expecting to hear some obscure player’s name called that I’ve never heard before. As such, I was happy to hear Green’s name and then I was able to get back to my day.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jun 9, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great post

It’s nice to have all of Green’s pros and cons laid out here on AN so thank you for taking the time to compile all this information.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Jun 9, 2009 6:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Writing like this

is what makes me like this site so much. Thanks for the info and keep it up!

"I'm more into going home and being horizontal" - Lew Wolff

by bvank on Jun 9, 2009 7:17 PM PDT reply actions  

+1

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup

by UncleLeo on Jun 9, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nice post.

General question for anyone willing to answer. . .

His BABIP was .472, 139 points higher than the PAC-10 average BABIP.

I know a high BAPIP usually denotes luck, and is indicative of a regression back to normal numbers. While this is true, is a high BABIP also a sign of not only a lucky player, but a better player?

In other words, is it ever considered that, especially in this case, where Green is 139 points higher, that he simply has a much better ability to hit gaps and make solid contact? (79 XBH in three college seasons is nothing to sneeze at.)

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Jun 9, 2009 7:21 PM PDT reply actions  

There are certain players

That maintain a high BABIP throughout their careers, like Pujols and Ichiro, for various reasons. In Pujols’ case, it’s because he hits the ball really damn hard almost every time, and rarely rolls over on a ball and hits weak grounders. In Ichiro’s case, it’s because he has great speed and usually steals an extra step or two by using that running swing.

As far as I know, it’s the same for college. Hitters likely benefit more from BABIP due to poorer defense and metal bats, but there’s no way he’ll maintain a BABIP of .472 in the major leagues. He’s definitely not MLB-ready and needs to work on various things to succeed. Don’t let me scare you though, he has all the tools to do so. It’s a pretty solid pick.

by NateHST on Jun 9, 2009 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that he's definitely not MLB ready

and definitely won’t maintain that high a BABIP, I just think sometimes people see that stat as a reason to doubt a players numbers or discount them, when in actuality—like in your assessment of Pujols/Ichiro—it is a stat that is earned by the players performance.

Thanks, Nate.

I hope Green has a good career w/ the Green and Gold.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Jun 10, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

general rule of thumb

is that BABIP is almost completely luck for pitchers, but only partially luck for hitters. Hitters with a line drive swing will typically have higher BABIP compared to fly ball hitters.

by colin on Jun 10, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

That makes a lot of sense--

maybe I was blurring the reference to both in my mind as one..

But yeah, BABIP in reference to pitchers seems much more luck-based.

Cool, thanks.

witty remark

by dtownmbrown on Jun 10, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

2 round Justin Marks.

#92.

Louisville Univ

LHP 6’03"

by DemianBlue on Jun 9, 2009 7:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Fantastic post

Just got access to a computer after a day spent out in the field. I’m quite happy with our draft pick. I am pretty shocked with some of the other draft picks in the first round by other teams, but I think the A’s did quite well.

The Rangers had an amazingly good draft if they get both Purke and Scheppers signed.

by BlameChannel53 on Jun 9, 2009 7:59 PM PDT reply actions  

Even if he doesn't pan out

This is by far the best pick they could have made….very happy with the organization, and i hope he is in the show within the next two years (i think i read somewhere that he wouldn’t take long to get there due to his experience or something)….another step in the right direction! GO A’s!

Go A's!!!

by stephanc101 on Jun 9, 2009 8:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Thanks, vignette17, for doing this!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jun 9, 2009 9:31 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm glad the A's got Greene -

I’m not really into the intense religiosity, but I did enjoy The Quiet American and was sad when he died.

Thanks for the info!

by scromulus on Jun 9, 2009 10:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Excellent post

It’s a nice summary of the giddy and the skeptical takes on Green.

I’m not as concerned with his “lackluster” junior season. First, it isn’t that bad. Second, I can easily guess that he might have been pressing, knowing that a lot of money was on the line depending on his performance. Third, he already established in his sophomore season and in the Cape Cod league that he could hit. His manager there is pretty rhapsodic. If Green had hit as well as some were expecting, he wouldn’t have been available in the #13 slot.

I am more concerned about his defense, especially because he’s only worth a first round pick if he sticks at the position or suddenly develops more power.

by bear88 on Jun 9, 2009 11:03 PM PDT reply actions  

The pressing argument scares me

On of the reasons that statheads cite about why clutch doesn’t exist at the major leagues is that you can’t get to the major leagues if you aren’t clutch (though Im sure if you were automatic that would also suffice :-P). If you are pressing in college and cant perform what do you think will happen when he’s playing to get to the bigs? Or for his arby award? Or for his first FA contract? This coupled with reports that he oscillates between being too hard on himself and lackadaisical worry me.

The D is concerning because I don’t think he can hit enough to profile at third. However Kevin Goldstien says he is the only player in the entire draft to have star potential at SS and hes seen him a lot more than me and has way way better connections with scouts (of which i have none).

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jun 11, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I could not be happier

I think as a baseball selection it addresses the left-infield issues and as a name, it works in a million different ways. We really need to have a 2nd baseman named Gold, that would be just the right DP combination in the future.

And yes, the namesake is really, honestly, no exaggeration whatsoever, one of the greatest guitar players who will ever live; I mean he is worshipped by music heads and there’s a reason, even though he’s been dead 30 years

.

Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?

by emperor nobody on Jun 10, 2009 6:08 AM PDT reply actions  

QOTM

“We really need to have a 2nd baseman named Gold, that would be just the right DP combination in the future.”

by DiegoSegui on Jun 10, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like Green

And I like that fact that there will be less Angel fans.

by Colorado Fan on Jun 10, 2009 8:35 AM PDT reply actions  

There's only one thing better

than playing for the home nine. That one thing is coming to the hometown as a member of an arch rival and destroying the hometown nine.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jun 10, 2009 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

not anymore.

(i’m relatively sure the answer was yes, but i don’t recall for sure.)

"The hard... is what makes it great."

by Jjjsixsix on Jun 10, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was a Giants fan who lived in Angels territory

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jun 10, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

SWEET!!

I was juiced when i heard his name called that was the player we needed and the player i wanted. good job A’s

by Tambo45 on Jun 10, 2009 10:25 AM PDT reply actions  

Looking at the success rate of 1st round picks

not only for the A’s, but for all teams; who gives a sh*t because most of these guys don’t pan out. I can’t wait to see if he does though and I believe it to be a fairly logical pick.

by Boss Playa on Jun 10, 2009 1:46 PM PDT reply actions  

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