Draft well or die slowly
I need to start today’s post with an apology.
I planned on doing something special today, rather than post an update on the farm system I got Blez to help me land an interview with A’s Director of Player Personnel Billy Owens and I was going to type up the transcript of that conversation for AN’s perusal today. Unfortunately, Muppets aren’t renowned for their technical savvy and somehow the interview was deleted from my digital recorder. I’ve already e-mailed apologies to Mr. Owens and Blez, and now I apologize to AN as a whole because I cannot provide you with hard "these are his very words" evidence regarding the A’s intentions in the June 9th amateur draft. I will not try to quote Billy Owens based on my memory of the conversation we had, I’ve got too much respect for the man and in the concept of journalistic professionalism (actually, I may have made that concept up just now) to attempt what could only end up a hack job.
I do want to talk about tomorrow’s draft though, in place of the weekly minor league update, and I’m going to use concepts and ideas that I learned from my conversation with Mr. Owens to try and paint a more accurate picture of what we might expect to see on Tuesday. I want to make something clear before we begin: at no point in my conversation with Mr. Owens were specific players ever mentioned as being possible targets for the 13th pick in tomorrow’s draft. Yes, I brought up specific names in the conversation and yes, Mr. Owens could talk intelligently about the players I brought up but in no way have any of the players I’ll talk about in today’s article been hinted at by the Oakland organization itself. I’m basing today’s discussion on the players most rumored (or hoped for on AN) to be under consideration by Oakland at #13 and have a strong likelihood of being around when it’s the A’s turn to draft.
Baseball
A lot of people consider Georgia HS OF Donovan Tate to have more upside than any draft eligible amateur. (Strasburg is already considered just about as good as he can get, thus not much upside. He’ll have to get by with his 99-101 MPH running fastball, 80 MPH curve and laser sharp control… woe is him.) Tate also has a baseball/football scholarship to
Gee, I wonder why I picked those names to highlight.
So what does all this mean for the A’s come Tuesday?
The A’s are (probably) still in the process of building their Draft Board, and on that board they will list the Top 100 draft eligible amateur baseball players in the world. After those 100 names (which will take the team through it’s 3rd round pick at #92) the team will then divide the rest of the draft class up by position. I can say one thing with certainty; the A’s are looking to add talent in this draft. To those on AN who clamor for a new SS or 3B, I will discuss the 2 names which could conceivably fit those needs at #13. Those 2 names are Southern Cal SS Grant Green and Florida HS 3B Bobby Borchering… there isn’t another SS or 3B prospect in the 2009 draft worthy of even being considered with the 13th pick in the draft so do not cry and wail if the A’s don’t spend their 1st round pick on a player at 1 of those 2 positions. Since I brought ‘em up, I might as well start with the discussion with them.
(National ranking per publication.)
Bobby Borchering, 3B
A switch hitter with power and good hand/eye co-ordination, he’s been climbing the draft boards lately. He’s considered maybe the best prep bat in the draft and he’s got a strong arm to go with soft hands. At 6-4, 195 pounds he’s not an especially graceful athlete although he did improve his agility while filling out his senor year. The best anyone will say about his defense at 3B is that he projects to be average; most feel that he’ll have to switch over to 1B. There in lies the rub for the A’s. Every mock draft I’ve seen has Borchering there for the A’s at #13 but that’s because most teams view him as a 1B. The publications have him rated as a solid mid-1st round pick and the talent/reliability level between the guys at the 5-20 spots is so close that a lot might come down to personal preference between the teams, so drafting the nationally 15th ranked guy at #13 is in no way an over-draft. But chances are Borchering won’t rank higher than some of the other guys I’ll be talking about unless the A’s are convinced that Borchering can play 3B.
Grant Green, SS USC (BA: 13; BP: 5; JS: 11)
Green seems to have suffered a bit from over-expectation. All the publications say the same thing: Green has the potential to be a solid hitting, starting SS for a contending MLB team… and some are saying he’s pretty much the only guy you can say that about in the entire draft! He’s certainly the guy with the best chance of achieving that goal, and as such it would be something of a coup if the A’s had a chance to draft him at all. There are at least a couple teams (Washington at #10, KC at #12) with up the middle needs. Does that mean Green is the pick if he’s sitting there at #13? Maybe not if the next guy is still on the board…
Mike Leake, RHP ASU (BA: 14; BP: 8; JS: 8)
Remember what I said about a team’s personal preference? Mike Leake doesn’t have a ton of upside, but what he’s got is still pretty damn good. "The most consistent pitcher in college baseball had a lower ERA than Stephen Strasburg while pitching in a tougher park against much tougher competition" – Kevin Goldstein, BP
Leake can touch 94 MPH but sits at 88-92 with a lot of run and sink, a change-up and a slider that both grade out as above-average. He’s got a bulldog mentality; he’s smart on the mound and has excellent control of his stuff (21 BB, 150 K in 132.2 IP). But he’s not a big guy at 6-0, 180 lbs and he’s pretty much done growing. The mock drafts have him going anywhere from #8 to #17 and while no one is expecting him to be a #1 SP everyone is expecting him to be in the middle of a big league rotation soon.
Oh, and he’d be a re-draft. The A’s used a 7th round pick on him in the 2006 draft but weren’t able to sign him. His college career hasn’t done anything to have lowered his value to the A’s.
Tim Wheeler, OF
Wheeler is a high energy outfielder with good instincts on the bases and above average (some say plus potential) power. His LH bat is his best tool, but he has average arm strength and above average speed. At 6-4, 205 pounds he’s got the frame to get bigger (and potentially develop more power) but would it cost him speed if he did so? There seems to be a decent contingent of folks who think he can stick in CF but there are more voices saying he’ll end up in LF. If that’s the case then the extra power better come. There’s a lot of chatter in the mock drafts about the A’s selecting Wheeler, in fact BA’s last two mocks had the A’s taking the
Tanner Scheppers, RHP Independent League (BA: 9; BP: 6; JS: 9)
Scheppers has a mid-90’s fastball and a hard curve and some say that his stuff is second only to Strasburg’s in the 2009 draft class. He ranks at the bottom of the Top 10 and shows up in the mid to late 1st round in most mock drafts because of the shoulder that went bad on him last year. He’s been cleared medically and has been pitching for
Donovan Tate, CF Georgia HS (BA: 3; BP: 3; JS: 6)
Let’s check the tool shed, shall we? Depending on the scouting report, Tate has a minimum 70 (out of the 20-80 scale) in raw power, speed and arm strength. If he becomes everything the scouts think he can become he’s the next Andruw Jones (Good Atlanta Version) with Gold Glove defense and 30+ HR power. There are some caution flags, however. I already mentioned the $6 million signing bonus thanks to the
Can the A’s even afford Tate? Keep in mind the A’s don’t have a 2nd round pick this year and last year they spent almost $2.7 million to sign Weeks and Ross to slot bonuses in the 1st and 2nd rounds, respectively. They also went well above slot to sign Hunter,
Feeling lucky?
Kyle Gibson, RHP Missouri (BA: 4; BP: 12; JS: 3)
(The BA grade was made in May, Sickels’ in early June and BP’s after the drop in velocity during a complete game shut-out but before the diagnosis. Interestingly, in BA’s last mock draft Jim Callis picked Gibson at #11 to the
Gibson was, as I said before, a probable Top 5 pick in the draft before his forearm injury. No one’s whispered his name in conjunction with the A’s; ergo here I am shouting it from the rooftop. The guy had slightly better stuff than Leake, with a consistent low-90’s fastball with good sink, a good change-up and a good slider. At 6-6, 210 he could use a few more pounds and maybe that would help the fastball. Good control and a calm demeanor on the mound, he projects as a #2 or #3 SP in a big league rotation.
But he’s hurt. Yeah, I know but he’s supposed to be healthy well in advance of the August 15th signing deadline, meaning whichever team drafts him will get to see him pitch again before making a decision on how much to spend on him. In the A’s case, if things don’t work out Oakland has the option of letting him go back to school and they get the 14th pick in the 2010 draft, as well as whatever pick they earn from the 2009 season. But if he’s healthy, the A’s just took a gamble and it paid off for them by landing 1 of the consensus 5 best amateurs in the country at little more than slot wages, an opportunity that typically doesn’t happen unless the big league team struggles epically.
The key to answering all of these questions lies in the A’s Draft Board. Having talked to Billy Owen I feel pretty confident in saying that the A’s plan on sticking to their internal rankings… although how much their rankings are influenced by signability (Tate) and minor injury (Gibson) remains an open question. As I’ve said, draft boards can be heavily influenced by a team’s personal preference… some teams tend to lean towards rawer/higher upside guys while the A’s have tended towards more polished players. I think the fact that the A’s have already drafted Mike Leake once will push him up their draft board a bit and if he’s still around at #13 he’ll tempt the team quite a bit. Donovan Tate is a very pretty dream, but in the course of writing this I think I kinda talked myself out of going that direction. I think I’d rather see the A’s spend (essentially) $3.5 million over slot on 4-5 players than see it all go to one guy. I’m going to roll the dice here and put Grant Green higher on the board than Leake. Grant gets a lot of Troy Tulowitzki comps, the 2005 1st round draft pick of the Colorado Rockies who made his big league debut in August, 2006 and was the Opening Day SS in 2007. If the A’s think Green can move that fast through the system it’s tough to see them going in another direction if he’s sitting there at #13. Kyle Gibson makes a lot of sense if Grant and Leake are already off the board, which is a very possible scenario tomorrow. In fact, since I’ve pretty much talked myself out of Tate at this point I’d say Gibson is my 3rd choice behind Grant and Leake.
So I hope you found this helpful, and I’ve no doubt that the A’s are going to go and draft someone that I didn’t mention. Hopefully that guy will be even more amazing than the guys I wrote about! See you manana, folks.
2 recs |
176 comments
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Comments
Sorry to hear about that grover.
This looks like a fantastic piece regardless, which is no surprise there.
Look forward to reading it over breakfast.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 11:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll take Leake...
can never have too much pitching. Can never have too much pitching. But, he’ll be gone by 13.
"I’m actually a disgrace to myself right now." - Sean Gallagher (quoting me after a night out on the town)
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 8, 2009 11:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
oh, did I say...
can never have too much pitching. ;-)
"I’m actually a disgrace to myself right now." - Sean Gallagher (quoting me after a night out on the town)
by FoolshGame22 on Jun 8, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You sure did. But you left out its corollary --
“can never have too little of anything other than pitching” —
which, however much the A’s may have relied on it historically, is certainly false.
by el campysino on Jun 8, 2009 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leake is polished
but it reminds me of when the A’s took Simmons, this draft is full of high ceiling pitchers, considering our already good crop of young pitchers, i would like the A’s to take a pitcher with a higher upside, i’ll sound like a broken record but i have the biggest man crush on shelby miller
When we played softball, I’d steal second base, feel guilty and go back.
- Woody Allen
by rhymeswithelephant on Jun 9, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leake's upside scares me
He had the highest FIP+ in college on this side of Strasburg at an absurd 349 (Strasburg was at 939). However Leake’s stuff is eerily Simmonsish with a FB that sits at 91. Leake’s gotton some Hudson comps but I think it’s in much the same way every Twins prospect was getting Radke comps: the only way they could be successful was if they beat the odds. Leake doesn’t even have the out pitch that Huddy has.
I’m still hoping for Green and I see 3 hurdles to him falling to the A’s. First the O’s have to pass on him. I’d say that’s very likely. Then the Tigers have to pass on him. That’s likely but not for sure. Last is the Royals. I’d be surprised if they passed on him. It’s unfortunate but I’m guessing we’ll see another Smoak fall one in front of the A’s this year. That’s not to say Green is the same caliber of player. But he’s still the guy I want to see join the system. I wish the A’s had a supplemental so they could get Matt Davidson as well, but they don’t and he won’t last until the 3rd.
Wheeler and Tate would be interesting picks to say the least. Not sure how I’d feel about them (but certainly better than Leake).
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 8, 2009 11:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
1 big difference I see between Leake and Simmons is the sink on the fastball
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That and the slider
When Simmons was drafted he was basically a two-pitch pitcher. Leake already has average or better breaking ball which is huge. Simmons was able to step right out of college and be one of the best pitchers in AA with out a breaking ball.
If Leake is “simmonsish” plus having better movement on the fastball and a better than average slider, that is a great prospect.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 8, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
Leake has three or four above average to plus pitches. If he was 6’4" instead of barely 6’0", we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. A good sinker and good secondary pitches with excellent command sounds a whole lot like Hudson. Obviously the A’s liked him when they drafted him before, and if he’s there I hope they take him. To me, it sounds like a Lincecum (not stuff-wise) situation where the performance was there in black and white, but the size scared a lot of people off. Right handed, control oriented, six foot tall pitchers aren’t supposed to be that good.
by NateHST on Jun 8, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 to grover, DiegoAsFan, and NateHST -1 to vignette17
Comparing Leake to Simmons is a pretty terrible comparison. They are really not remotely similar as prospects, as pointed out by the three posts above. Leake has far better offspeed stuff than Simmons has ever shown, and has better movement on his fastball than Simmons.
Leake is not just a low risk, low reward prospect. He can be a fantastic pitcher in the major leagues.
Leake, Green, Tate, or Scheppers would all be picks I would be happy with.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 8, 2009 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
The comparison of Leake and Simmons as control pitchers with an average fastball is pretty accurate. Leake is just far superior to Simmons when he comes to the secondary stuff.
by NateHST on Jun 8, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's true that Leake has better breaking stuff
But pitchers tend to have 3-5 more mph on their fastball in college. Especially those who don’t have the body to support more mph. If Leake loses ANYTHING on his fastball he’ll be in the bottom 25% of ML RHSP in velocity. And he’s had a lot of mileage put on his arm in college.
My comparison to Simmons wasn’t so much in terms of stuff but more on upside. I just can’t see Leake being more than a 3-4 starter without developing killer offspeed stuff (say like Duke’s cutter and curve). Leake’s curve has been called “not an out pitch” but he is described as having a hard slider. Perhaps that slider is good enough to make him a solid FB-CH-SL pitcher with an occasional average curve. But I see a guy whose best tools are his makeup, command, and changeup with an upside of a 3-4 starter. Remind you of anyone?
I’d be happy to be wrong of course. I have a feeling Leake is the most likely choice tomorrow.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 9, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree in that what you see is what you get with Leake
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I find ironic
Your initial post criticizes people for making comparisons to Hudson by essentially saying that fans of a team tend to compare prospects to guys that they shouldn’t compare them to simply because fans of a team tend to pigeonhole prospects based on the memories of other players that play or have played for their team. I think you make the same mistake in comparing Leake to Simmons.
Sure, Leake and Simmons have good command and a fastball at the same basic velocity. You know who else was similar as a draft prospect? Greg Maddux. There are tons and tons of prospects who have had good command and average fastball velocity, and they have ended up anywhere on the prospect success spectrum from Jason Windsor to Greg Madddux. The difference in the success of pitching prospects with good command and average velocity fastballs tends to be determined by health, the amount of movement on those fastballs, and the quality of breaking pitches the pitchers throw.
The two problems I’ve always had with Simmons as a starting pitcher prospect, and the reason I advocated unsuccessfully for Mazzaro to be rated higher than Simmons in the AN community prospect rankings, is that he has never shown, not in college or in the minors, the ability to throw any sort of major league quality breaking pitch and has never shown any ability to create much movement on his fastball. Leake has shown the ability to do both things.
I think your comparision of Simmons and Leake is apples to oranges. They are very different prospects, and scouts and prospect experts have ranked Leake higher as a prospect than Simmons was based on those differences.
I do agree with your concern about the high mileage on Leake’s arm, and I was going to mention it in my initial post but forgot. Leake has had what I believe is an undeserved reputation as a “safe, low upside” pick among some draft watchers, although that reputation has shifted somewhat in the past month or so.
I think he has more risk than people think because the mileage/lack of projectabilty issue cannot be ignored, and I think he has more upside than he was initially given credit for.
There are valid reasons for the A’s to pass on Leake if they like someone else more or see him as a guy who will suffer a loss of velocity in the pros, but I just don’t agree that “simmonsish” stuff is one of them.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 9, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
Great post
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 9, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alright I deserved that
But there are a lot more Jason Windsors than their are Greg Madduxes.
If Leake can maintain an average FB of 91, perhaps he’s not relegated to the soft-throwing righty stereotype of low upside. Some RHP who averaged near 91 mph in 2008: Dan Haren, John Lackey, Scott Baker, James Shields.
Maybe I was blinded by what I was reading at scout and my love of Grant Green.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 9, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*there are
I wish Firefox has grammar check as well spell check.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 9, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way that someone reputed to throw "91" in college
will average 91 on fangraphs. No way.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His strikeout numbers are very underwhelming
If his secondary pitches are that good, then he should be striking more guys out. If his K numbers drop somewhat in the minors as you would expect from better opposition and the slight decline in fastball velocity that tends to happen, he becomes a clearly low-upside prospect.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2009 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would Aaron Crow make you feel better?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, for you, then
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks grover
sorry about your technical snafu, but good job for owning up to it here and especially to Mr. Owens. Hopefully he’ll be willing to give you another interview in the future.
As for the pick at #13, I’d be happy with Green or Leake, and even happier if one of the top HS arms falls to us. In all though, I trust the A’s scouting staff have a good draft. They have done well since the initial post Grady Fusan period, and seem to be flexible enough to change strategies.
We don’t know what the budget range really is though, and whether they would want to pay for a Purke or Tate, whether that would mean taking money away from other potential over-slot signings or latin America signings.
by jakarta on Jun 8, 2009 11:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My guess is...
Making a play on Tate pretty much counts as the big ticket Christmas item. It would pretty much take the A’s out of the Miguel Sano race (rumored price tag for the top Dominican prospect; $3-4 million). Word is the A’s are pursuing 2 Dominican prospects… LHP Edgar Ferrera and SS Jean Carlos Batista. Ferrea can throw 94 MPH but doesn’t have much in the way of control or breaking stuff, he’s a long term project that could cost up to $800 K. Batista is a switch hitter with enough athleticism that he should be able to stick at SS as he fills out his 6-1, 170 pound frame. His price tag is expected to top at around $300 K.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where's you see that?
I’ve been wondering where to find info on July 2 candidates. Besides the live2play site, I really haven’t found anything. I’ve vaguely read through second hand sources the A’s could be interested in Jacob Beltre, arguably the top C prospect. Sano has had a ton of rumors of course (mostly Pirates) and there’s been multiple pictures of him in A’s gear (don’t read anything into it; he gets stuff from every team he works out for).
Sano could have an impact tomorrow since the Pirates could go cheap to save money for him.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 9, 2009 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I pay for info
BP had an article on the Dominican market today.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008 draft eve..
which players was AN expecting? wallace? hicks? was anyone expecting weeks?
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 8, 2009 11:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was expecting Hicks leading up to the draft, but I believe there was an article
that came out a couple days before that said the A’s were leaning towards Weeks, so it wasn’t a surprise.
by NateHST on Jun 8, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm no expert
But going into last years draft my hopes for the A’s pick were
1.) Wallace
2.) Hicks
3.) Weeks
4.) Lawrie
Although Hicks, and Lawrie were guys I liked that I didn’t really think the A’s would look at. I also felt like Christian Friedrich would be on the A’s radar but I wasn’t too excited by him.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 8, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, forgot about Friedrich
otherwise, our recollections are similar
by jakarta on Jun 8, 2009 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
weeks, hicks, wallace, and lawrie
were the main contenders, with a pipe dream that Gordon Beckham might fall and a tiny bit of rumor about Ethan Martin as well
by jakarta on Jun 8, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted Aaron Hicks in the AN poll.
I had Weeks ranked somewhere around 25 on my personal draft board, but I had heard Weeks rumors so was not shocked at the pick, particularly after Jim Callis predicted it in his usually highly accurate final mock draft.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 8, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weeks
I remember the discussions on AN last year were basically:
1 – we hope Smoak falls to Oakland, followed by a string of expletives when Texas took him 1 pick prior
2 – we hope it’s Hicks or Wallace, but fear it’s going to be Weeks
3 – more expletives
I’m not sure where I read it, but there was plenty of talk about the A’s taking Weeks last year, possibly originating from Baseball America, I can’t remember. But definitely, he’s a guy people were expecting, for better or for worse.
by rageon on Jun 9, 2009 5:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember it about the same way
But I seem to recall more controversy surrounding Wallace. There was a pretty large contingent around here who didn’t want Wallace because he looked like a 1B/DH and many felt we were set at that position with Barton, Doolittle, and Carter.
I think after Wallace’s hot start and quick rise there was a little bit of revisionist history going on around AN that elevated Wallaces pre-draft stock.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 9, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a lot of people wanted Weeks.
That I remember for sure.
Whether it was Wallace or Hicks I can’t be certain of, but a lot of people saw the Weeks pick as drafting for need (leadoff hitter and 2B replacement for Ellis).
The problem with that is 3B and SS are much more important positions of need, and the fact that Cardenas was acquired made drafting a 2B an even stranger move.
Perhaps he’ll end up in CF eventually, a la a certain Upton fellow who couldn’t hang at SS.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 9, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I wanted Wallace or Hicks. Rumour was that the A’s preferred Hicks as a SP and would take him if he would agree to pitch. My feeling was Weeks was a nice player to have but picking at 12 I felt he was an overdraft and would have much preferred Wallace. I think it was the double disappointment of just missing out on Smoak and then passing on Wallace to reach for Weeks is what tipped a lot of people of the balance. Also Wallace being an A’s fan who was apparently convinced the A’s were going to take him didn’t help I think. Weeks has been hitting well as of late so hopefully he will prove everyone wrong.
by DeJay on Jun 9, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
great summary
as for the recorder, well things happen.
I think Beane has telegraphed why Borchering will not be picked in his recent comments about Cardenas. I don’t think the organization wants to wait at least two more years for a quality 3B man— I think they’d rather gamble with Cardenas’ defense or get someone via Holliday for later this year and certainly next year.
by jasonthea on Jun 8, 2009 11:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hi mister Wallace
a ground rule double followed by three unproductive outs, sounds like my sex life - dayzd toe
by adragon on Jun 8, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want Grant Green
an impact bat at a postion of need. Sounds like a plan to me. Here is my top five from the players listed above.
1) GG
2) Leake
3) Scheppers
4) Borchering
5) Tate
a ground rule double followed by three unproductive outs, sounds like my sex life - dayzd toe
by adragon on Jun 8, 2009 11:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For me, unless a guy like Crow or Matzek magically falls to us
Then it’s Leake. He’s small, but he’s performed. grover said it, better ERA against better competition in a more difficult park to pitch in than Strasburg has been doing, and Strasburg is basically what Jesus would be if he played baseball. His pocketful of plus pitches makes me salivate.
If Leake’s off the table, then I have loved Scheppers since last year. The arm injury is worrisome, but one has to remember that he just converted to pitcher from SS recently. He’s big and athletic and Fresno State put some mileage on his arm pretty quickly. His stuff is awesome. I’d be surprised if he’s still on the table when it comes to the A’s pick, because in his last start, he was throwing high-90s with a nasty breaking ball.
After Scheppers and Leake, it becomes more muddled for me. Tate looks real good but he’s expensive…and I’ve heard more comparisons to Arizona’s Chris Young more than I have Andruw Jones. Flashy tools, but no command of the strikezone and contact issues. His bat is too big of a question mark.
Before Tate, I’d probably take Green. If Green’s not still available, forget about filling that organizational hole, because Borchering is a big HS risk that will likely end up at 1B, and Mier is too far of a stretch. Green’s got the tools, but he hasn’t performed. Not many of the other players who project to still be around when we pick excite me too much. Be wary of toolsy college players that don’t put up the numbers.
Leake, Scheppers, Green, Tate for me. Hopefully one or all of them is still around. For what it’s worth, every mock draft I’ve seen has taken one of those four. Yesterday, mymlbdraft.com had us taking Leake. Today it’s projecting Green.
One last thing. If none of these guys are around, or maybe just Tate, and the A’s don’t feel like spending that money, I wonder if they’ll save money and maybe make a serious run at Miguel Angel Sano, whom the Pirates appear to be the front runners for. If Tate is seriously asking for $6MM, then think of it this way. Last year Weeks signed for just under $2MM as the 12th pick. If the A’s signed a player for $2MM, then they could take that extra $4MM and win the Miguel Angel Sano sweepstakes and get two for the price of one.
by NateHST on Jun 8, 2009 11:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I had heard the Tate to Chris Young comp as well
To be honest, I thought about switching to him while proof reading the article… but then I decided to be lazy and stick with the max upsize comp in Good Jones. I’d say Chris Young is the most likely comp and it’ll take Tate 3-4 years to get there.
Folks can take that at whatever value they wish.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing about Green not performing...
He hit .374 and posted an OPS over 1.000. He was a little error prone, especially early in the season but no one’s saying he’ll have to move off SS.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying he's got no bat.
But it’s definitely questionable. With expectations after his Cape Cod performance, he was competing with Ackley for being the best position player available, but he has fallen pretty far.
by NateHST on Jun 9, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't he hit the sh't out of the ball in the Cape Cod League?
With wooden bats no less…
a ground rule double followed by three unproductive outs, sounds like my sex life - dayzd toe
by adragon on Jun 9, 2009 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saw Matzek last weekend
Beat my old high school in the CIF finals. Only allowed to pitch one inning and had some control problems but once he settled down…wow.
Also, not a bad bat. His solo homerun (in Anaheim Stadium) was the only run of the game.
Only knock, which I was told by a high school coach in the area, is that he is a jerk. When he hit the home run, he took off his helmet before crossing home and strutted across. But what the hell, lots of guys are jerks.
All that said, I am sure he will be long gone by 13.
by easyraider on Jun 9, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a sec...
He’s 17, maybe 18 and he’s a jerk?
Doesn’t that describe 88.4% of the male population who reached that age?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'M NORMAL!!!!!!111111
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 9, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, if you’re looking for SS/3B prospects, check out this guy, Stephen Perez, who could still be around when the A’s pick at #92.
by NateHST on Jun 9, 2009 12:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Regardless of whether the A’s draft Green, Perez would be a very interesting pick . There are some very big questions about his bat, but his upside is very good and at pick #92 it would be pretty hard to beat getting a legitimately toolsy left side of the infield prospect. Need and BPA is a nice combination.
What will be interesting is what the A’s might do if guys like Robert Stock or even Donovan Tate are available when pick #92 comes around. Talk about a “Fuckin’ A” draft, getting a guy like Leake or Green in the first along with a first round upside guy like Stock or Tate at #92 would be pretty awesome. Almost no chance it actually happens, but I choose to dream about it anyway.
Perez is actually possible, and I would be happy to see the A’s draft him.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 9, 2009 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see Stock being around
A guy like Kendal Volz or Tommy Mendonca could be interesting as well. But don’t expect Tate to be around. His upside is just too damn high to last that long.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 9, 2009 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dig
I think, considering who will inevitably be around at 13, we could take anyone and, if Perez was landed at 92, it’d be a Fuckin A draft.
by walk off bunt on Jun 9, 2009 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the draft
Well, I think the following guys are definitely off the board by us:
Strasburg
Crow
Ackley
Zach Wheeler
Matzek
Some guys I like that no one else seems to have mentioned:
Alex White
Matt Purke
Shelby Miller
Anyone like these guys?
I’ll predict Leake, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the pick being Shelby Miller. I really like Miller.
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 9, 2009 12:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
White is expected to be off the board well before #13, especially after his last start
Purke is rumored to want a bonus higher than Tate.
Miller has a big time fastball, but doesn’t seem to have the command/secondary stuff the A’s tend to look for in a pitcher… especially in the 1st round.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like White as well
But I think his performance over the weekend might have secured him a spot before the A’s get a chance at him.
I’m not really a fan of Miller as I tend to shy away from high school guys who get by on fastball velocity. Miller seems like more of a thrower at this point. I wouldn’t want the A’s to spend the #13 pick on a guy who they still have to teach, control, off-spead pitches, breaking pitches, and pitchability to.
I’m not that high on Purke either because of the bonus demands and the fact that there are some rumors that his delivery will have to be reworked.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 9, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 to you and grover
I like White but think he will be gone, and Miller is exactly the kind of pitcher that scares the hell out of me. It is so hard to evaluate whether a high school pitcher will maintain velocity as he ages, and Miller has no distinguishing qualities without velocity. That is not a #13 pick in my book.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 9, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he had a solid slider
As for Purke, I JUST saw the bit about his bonus demands. It’s so hard to find MLB draft coverage that doesn’t make you pay for a subscription.
What about Jacob Turner?
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 9, 2009 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is the deal with Matt Davidson?
Keith Law has him rated as the best hitter for average, best plate discipline, and best power hitter among all prep hitters, and likely only second to Ackley among anyone.
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 9, 2009 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two big questions for Davidson
Can he play 3B in MLB? He has limited athleticism and may outgrow 1B.
Can he hit for average? He has a somewhat long swing and there are doubters as to his ability to hit for average despite Law’s ranking.
Unfortunately for the A’s, Davidson would be quite an overdraft at #13 and the A’s have no supplemental or second round pick where Davidson could potentially slip to if other teams doubt his ability to stay at 3B. His power potential is real. It would be very shocking if he was available at #92.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 9, 2009 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
That leaves Green, Wheeler, or Tate for hitters, and I can’t see us paying Tate.
I would love to land Matt Purke. If Beane thinks he can get him and only pay $3 mil, go for it. Purke reminds me of Madison Bumgarner.
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 9, 2009 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hes also apparently got a pretty big loop in his swing and struggled as a HS junior
That coupled with defensive questions would make me really mad if we drafted him at 13 which would be a huge reach.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miller has potential for a plus slider . . .
but I’ve heard no one who is willing to predict whether it will be a plus pitch. Miller could be a star, but I am willing to admit my bias against high school pitchers who rely solely on velocity and I would shy away from him if I were drafting for the A’s.
Turner is rumored to want “Porcello Money,” but he is not as highly rated as Porcello was. He has much better offspeed stuff than Miller but not quite the velocity. I would choose Turner over Miller assuming he would not demand to be paid a $7 million bonus.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 9, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking in the old school/where have all the flowers gone thread earlier today,
“Damn, grover can still smack these bitches up!” Now it turns out it was pent up aggression over electronic betrayal. That sucks, bro. Sorry that happened to you.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 9, 2009 12:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't know if this Southern Cal SS or Florida HS 3B are considered legitiimate #13 picks
but i will be really annoyed if the a’s draft based on need instead of taking the best available player for the second year in a row, especially if it’s some kid out of high school.
FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Jun 9, 2009 12:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Grant Green is a legitimate #13 pick
He came into the year fighting for the #2 spot behind Strasburg and has slipped some based on a somewhat disappointing year in light of expectations after a breakthrouhg Cape Cod League performance. He would be excellent value at #13. Borchering would be a slight overdraft at #13.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 9, 2009 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most mocks have Green gone before the A's pick, so in that regard there's no reason to consider him a reach at #13
The only reason for the A’s to take Borchering (as I read the draft) is if they honestly believe he could be a big league 3B. And if they think that, and they’re right, then he’d probably be considered a consensus Top 10 pick. If they draft him believing he’s a 3B and they’re wrong, they’ll still have a potentially good hitter but they’d have reached at 13… unless he turns into the next Tex or something.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Tate is a two sport athlete aren't the A's able to spread the
signing bonus over a number of years? I believe they did the same with Dixon (or at least I read that it was a possibility with Dixon because he had a football scholarship).
The issue with Simmons I believe is that from the scouting reports I read on him he had excellent command of his fastball and a very good changeup. The changeup is the one pitch the Oakland coaches teach all of their young arms as it doesn’t blow out the elbow like the slider and is still very effective – so essentially the A’s were banking on Simmons developing his curveball or being relegated to being a two pitch pitcher.
By the sounds of it Leake has four pitches that he’s comfortable throwing so he sounds a better prospect that Simmons. That said it’s not really a sexy pick.
Hopefully Green falls to us – I read that the coach of the team he was with in the Cape Cod league compared him favourably to Longoria, which is high praise indeed.
by OldhamA on Jun 9, 2009 1:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I did what research I could
A signing bonus can be spread out however the team and player agree upon. The catch you’re thinking about doesn’t have anything to do with spreading the bonus out. MLB wants teams to stick to slot when offering bonuses, and while it can’t punish teams for going over slot they will whine a lot and maybe even speak harshly to a team that goes over slot. However, if a prepster has a college scholarship for football then MLB recognizes the situation as (essentially) the team needing to buy the player out of two potential jobs and therefore will not cry if a team goes over slot to sign said player.
I’m sure that’s not exactly how the rules are written, but that’s the general gist as I understand it.
As for the Green – Longoria comp… sorry, that coach was full of shit. Green does not project to have that kind of bat. As I’ve said a couple times, a much better comp is Colorado’s Troy Tulowitzki.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not so much that that coach was full of shit its just an old comp
when he demolished the wood bat cape cod league, before he had a subpar year this year with the metal bat. At the end of last summer people were throwing around the tulo/longoria hybrid label often.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm rooting for Tate
Only because I think last year was a really solid draft and with the farm system being in the state it’s in now (that is, pretty darn good) I think it’s worth the risk to take a swing for the fences in a draft where we’re short on picks. It’s a risk, definitely, but I don’t think any of the “safer” picks are so appealing that it’s not a risk worth taking.
That said, though, I think I’ll be happy with whoever we take tomorrow. There’s going to be at least a handful of quality guys and, it seems to me, not a whole lot separating one from the other.
by walk off bunt on Jun 9, 2009 1:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Grant Green sounds like bobby Crosby
Please don’t make me watch another bobby crosby. Why are we always looking for the next Cal Ripken jr., what’s wrong with just having a defensive wizard at shortstop? Minnesota’s shortstop saves runs for his pitcher, I would be happy with a guy like that. I don’t know much about this draft stuff since I don’t get watch these guys that much. What college did Manny go to? What about Hanley or Grady? I thought so, let’s take Tate or thebest pitcher . Quit being stat nerds and take a risk.
by Boss Playa on Jun 9, 2009 6:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But Green is more often compared to Troy Tulowitzki...
who was actually comped to Crosby.
If that makes you feel any better.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
tulowitzki
is worst than bobby crosby right now…….
by Wreckonized on Jun 9, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I can't please everybody!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do I recall reading that Grant Green was more of a defensive SS than a true hitting SS?
If that’s true, I do not want. I remember reading at BtB that good fielding, poor hitting middle infielders usually don’t pan out in the draft (because they can’t hit enough in the minor leagues as it is). Of course, I’m probably wrong, but I’d rather go with some of the other guys, if available.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Jun 9, 2009 8:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No there are actually some questions about his range moving forward.
Hes was a great hitting SS with an Ok glove before the year. Now hes an ok hitting SS with an Ok glove.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Bad
I was thinking of Ryan Jackson from Miami.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Jun 9, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the scouting reports I've read put his future batting line at
.280 BA, 15-20 HR pop max, solid strike zone command (so, 1 BB every 9-10 AB).
His range is supposed to be average, but the hands and arm are supposed to be good.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't walk that much
His freshmen season he walked in about 10% of PAs, but last year was just 6.4% and this year was just 8.65%. 6.4% is atrocious. 8.65% is pretty damn bad for a premium college bat. He’s going to have serious on base challenges going forward if he doesn’t hit for a very high average (which is going to be a challenge in and of itself given his penchant for chasing bad pitches). Couple that with the questions about his defense and power and this is a risky pick (and expensive). Statistically he definitely does not measure up to a high pick. Obviously, stats aren’t everything, and if the A’s have a scouting report that they trust, they should do it. Green would be a defensible pick.
by AgitationStation on Jun 9, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except JJ Hardy plays solid d
Over the last three years he has contributed half a win at a minimum and 1.5 wins (which is what he is projected to do again this year) on defense alone. Green doesn’t even project close to that.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Draft Time
I wish they hadn’t effed with the format and moved it into prime time. I was really looking forward to the distraction at work this afternoon. Oh well…
by train80 on Jun 9, 2009 9:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
One of the nice things about the MLB Draft was that you could wake up and not have to wait all that long for things to really get going.
by walk off bunt on Jun 9, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
New moneyball?
How about we draft a bunch of fat guys and slim them down? :).
by greala on Jun 9, 2009 9:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
great job as always. grover
I generally support taking the best player available, especially with early picks, rather than drafting for need….they can always be traded later.
by OaklandSi on Jun 9, 2009 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
On Keith Laws Draft Notes
which were posted this morning, he says that Leake will probably be taken by KC, which will leave Oakland to decide between Trout and Tate
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4245143&name=mlb_draft
by mills16 on Jun 9, 2009 9:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If the A's can draft and sign Tate, that will be amazing
Yes, he is going to be expensive. If he pans out though, he will be more than worth it. If he is on the board at #13, he is easily BPA unless someone else slips due to signability (WANT) or injury (do not want, in most cases)
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 9, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope they take Tate, then
But without knowing what the budget looks like, and what the overall plan is, it’s tough to think what they might do. Best player available, regardless of cost, would almost certainly have to warrant Tate in that scenario, though.
by walk off bunt on Jun 9, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Philadelphia Inquirer story yesterday on Trout
Trout finished his senior year hitting .500 in 18 games, with 11 homers and 30 RBI. More importantly, he has been summoned by MLB Network to be a part of its special draft show taking place tomorrow night in Secaucus, N.J.
Trout just arrived back home last night from St. Louis, where he visited this weekend to work out for both the Cardinals, who have the 19th pick, and the Oakland Athletics, who pick 13th. They are the teams, according to Trout, that have shown the most interest in him.
A follow-up story from today’s Inquirer:
The Los Angeles Angels have the 24th and 25th selections and are among the teams that have reportedly shown interest.
snip
As of yesterday, the family was still fielding calls from teams.
“They are calling with signability questions,” said the player’s father, Jeff Trout, a former minor-league player.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 9, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck, Hobgood is really moving up the board!
BA’s also saying that Crowe could drop out of the Top 10. He’d be very tempting at $4 million. I’d probably rather drop $4 million on Crowe than $6 million on Tate, then go bonkers with pick 92 and draft whichever bonus baby is still floating around.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Hobgood as well
He is the type of HS school pitcher I could go along with in the first round. Doesn’t have the huge fastball like some of the other guys but he has the groundwork laid for a couple of good off-speed pitches and seems to have an idea on how to command his pitches.
He also has a pretty good build, with a good strength and conditioning program you might be able to find a couple of MPH in his fastball.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 9, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The First Round after Strasburg & Ackley ought to be interesting.
My pick for the A’s if they draft solely on the basis of the best position player available for 3rd Base, is Florida High School 3rd Baseman Bobby Borchering. No one else fits their needs.
Paddle Faster! I hear banjo music.
by alpine26 on Jun 9, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't hold my breath for that pick
There is almost zero chance that the A’s “draft solely on the basis of the best position player available for 3rd base.” All signs suggest that the A’s will continue to do what they always have done in the draft and go for the player they think is the best regardless of what position they need.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 9, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You missed a key word which is "if".
Was anyone surprised when the A’s picked Weeks last year? Was he the absolute best player left available at their slot? IMO, Wallace was the best player available at their slot.
Paddle Faster! I hear banjo music.
by alpine26 on Jun 9, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They could pick Borchering
but it won’t be because they are desperate for a third basemen.
You thought Wallace was the best player available last year, I may have though that Wallace was the best player available last year, but the A’s didn’t. They thought Weeks was the BPA and that’s why they drafted him.
If the A’s think Borchering is the best player available when it is their turn to pick they will probably grab him, if they only think he is the best available third basemen they probably won’t.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 9, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Are you going to be watching / listening at 3:00? I look forward to it.
Paddle Faster! I hear banjo music.
by alpine26 on Jun 9, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have MLB TV
but I will be around, following the draft online most likely.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 9, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything I've heard says
the A’s did believe Weeks was the best player available, better than Wallace. You may disagree with that (many do), but it’s not evidence that the A’s were drafting for need.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jun 9, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you...
every time someone says the A’s were drafting for need when they drafted weeks a puppy gets kicked.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Farhan Zaidi strongly implied in an interview with Melissa Lockard that they would have taken Wallace if Cardenas had been in the org at the time
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im pretty sure he said that Wallace has since become a better prospect than Weeks
Which considering that Wallace destroyed AA last year and Weeks hurt his legs, which are quite important to his value, potentially long term. So thats kinda an obvious statement.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right, since I read that second-hand, but maybe not
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a 1 in 5 chance (at best) that Borchering can stick at 3B
Is he still that sexy to you as a 1B?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a 1 in 5 chance (at best) that Borchering can stick at 3B
Is he still that sexy to you as a 1B?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IMO, Borchering is flying under the radar.
And that’s where the A’s like to operate. Thanks for posting this grover. I appreciate your frankness with the Owens interview.
Paddle Faster! I hear banjo music.
by alpine26 on Jun 9, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silly thing drafting for need, especially if that player is a high school kid and likely to turn it a 1B
by DeJay on Jun 9, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Indications point to Borchering staying at 3rd Base.
Unless you read something different, Borchering has a high probability of staying at 3rd Base.
Paddle Faster! I hear banjo music.
by alpine26 on Jun 9, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta ask, where are you reading that?
BA and BP are saying otherwise. He’ll start at 3B but it seems like everything I’m reading projects him to have to move to 1B.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Premium content on BA
BA describes him as adequete & servicable at 3rd base. Defense has improved at 3rd Base with a noticable improvement in his first step.
Paddle Faster! I hear banjo music.
by alpine26 on Jun 9, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they're still saying he's probable to move to 1B
Borchering might be a short term answer at 3B, but he’s not the long term answer. He’s probable to move to 1B before he hits FA.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's kind of 50/50.
Borchering is rated by BA as the overall # 16 Prospect. The key words used by BA was some of the scouts see 1st base as his best fit. The latter part stated what I somewhat summarized earlier which is improved agility, a quick first step, & having the arm strength & soft enough hands to play a adequete 3rd base. He was also rated as the best high school power hitter. Anyway, I hope we pick a winner. I have to go spray some weeds. Thanks Again grover.
Paddle Faster! I hear banjo music.
by alpine26 on Jun 9, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Signing bonuses, how do they work?
i am pretty unclear as to how they work. Do the draft picks get the lump sum and then have to negotiate another contract? Or do the draft picks get the lump sum and then get the minimum salary until they get to arbitration?
by greala on Jun 9, 2009 9:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They generally work one of two ways.
Most draft picks get the lump sum as a signing bonus and a minor league contract. If they make it to the majors, they get league min till arbitration.
Some players get major league contracts though. A Major League contract means that the player must immediately be placed on the 40 man roster and an option year is used for every year the guy spends in the minors (I might be wrong on this). Example: Although there was no way in hell Rick Porcello would’ve been called up at all last year and he isn’t Rule 5 eligible, he was on the 40 man during the ’08 season. This is a HUGE risk in the sense that if the guy needs more time in the minors than the contract allows, he burns option years, which can be huge.
A player like Strasburg or Ackley will most likely get a major league contract. Generally the guys who get major league contracts are the elite guys in the draft class and are close to the majors (ex. David Price)
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 9, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mayo released his final mock draft
Came out this morning here
He has Grant Green going to the A’s, with the Royals grabbing HS catcher Will Myers the pick before.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 9, 2009 9:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I just came out with my mock draft...
and I have Strasburg going to the A’s at #13 (man I wish that was possible and that they could afford him..ha)
by mills16 on Jun 9, 2009 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
latest BA mock is wild
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/mock-draft/2009/268312.html
late bonus demands are throwing the draft into upheaval apparently. Ackley may ask for $10 million. Matzek, Purke, and Turner want Porcello money or more. Shelby Miller wants $4 million. Tate wants $6 million. Even Borchering, James, and Trout have overslot demands. Multiple players from that crowd will get to the A’s.
The mock has Grant Green (overslot demands but not as much as other Boras clients) and Tate falling all the way out of the first round. Has the A’s taking Leake. Says the four playes the A’s are in on are Leake, Green, Tate, and Trout (“order unclear”).
Personally, I’m praying for a miracle that Dustin Ackley falls because of his demands. If he does, the A’s should take him and pay him.
by AgitationStation on Jun 9, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is just getting nutty.
Gonna be an interesting first round. If ALL those guys want wildly overslot bonuses though, this may finally be the year the system breaks. That’s a long list of dudes, there.
by walk off bunt on Jun 9, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so.
It’s pretty ridiculous.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 9, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be interesting if
the Nats took Ackley with #1, and Strasburg slipped all the way to the Yankees.
That would get the system fixed pretty damn fast.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 9, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A new possibility?
Reymond Fuentes, OF.
Kevin Goldstein writes that he has “massive helium”: The top talent in Puerto Rico has been in the US this week, and his private workouts have been nothing short of stunning. He’s a 70-plus runner with impressive bat speed and a bit of power, and the teams that like him think he could develop into a true power/speed threat in center field. He wasn’t even in my Top 50 on Saturday, but in the last 24 hours he’s been attached to teams as high as Detroit at #9 (where his workout for them bordered on legendary), to plenty of teams picking in the 20s.
Given our recent interest in more athletic up-the-middle types (Weeks & Dixon), I wonder if Fuentes might be in the mix with Leake & Green.
by branch rickey on Jun 9, 2009 9:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like guys that rise that far so fast
I prefer the months of research and scouting and cross checking that I know the A’s put into hundreds of players rather than a last minute work-out.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Jackson
Just for the record, I’m going to laugh my ass off if the Giants somehow select that guy.
by Pucking Insane on Jun 9, 2009 10:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tim Wheeler?
Tim Wheeler isn’t gettin enogh credit around here. He’s a sactown product and above average tools across the board.
Here’s my board:
1. Grant Green
2. Mike Leake
3. Tim Wheeler
by HarbirD on Jun 9, 2009 11:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is he a CF though?
I’ve seen it called both ways, and for me, if he’s not going to stick in CF then he’d drop on my board.
If I had a board.
I want an intern first, then I’ll get a board.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post Grover...
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jun 9, 2009 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you didn't even rip, for the capitalized, "g"
by theblackpearl on Jun 9, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Been a long couple days, gotta save my fastball for key moments
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
mike leake
could be the next Tim Lincecum
he is high on my watch.
by Wreckonized on Jun 9, 2009 12:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
His stuff isn't near as good as Lincecum's
But it’s a similar situation – an undersized guy that is overlooked, but has good stuff and good numbers.
by NateHST on Jun 9, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Names to think about in the 3rd round
I <3 Tommy Mendonca, who would not only fit a need but would be a great value pick. He K’s way too much but his defense is really really fantastic. Andy Seiler says there is only about a 20-30% chance of him lasting to us :’-(
Kendal Voz – starter/reliever from Baylor might be a great value if you can keep him in the starting rotation. Has a nasty slider and in the pen got up to 97 as a closer for Team USA, though as a starter hes more in the 89-92 range. He also has a change which gets the 10 mph differential. While some may think that being mostly a reliever presents added risk there is also probably less mileage on his arm than 3 year starters. Could be a sleeper in the third.
Josh Pleghy has a good bat for a C, thought there are some concerns about his power translating to wood, but the real question is his ability to stay behind the plate. He has some problems with pitchers with a lot of movement (he will never catch Tim Wakefield) and has stone hands. His arm is average with good strength but sometimes he rushes and it affects his accuracy. Might be a good risk in the third.
Luke Baily was a first round talent as a high school Catcher with few questions about his ability to stay there and some raw power projection. He blew out his arm and needed TJ surgery in May. Could be a good value if you want to rehab him.
Colton Cain is a prep lefty from Tx who throws a heavy sinking 94 mph fastball. His other pitches curve and change up are inconsistent but his change up shows potential and some think that his motion would adopt a hard slider well. Definitely a project.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Stock could be interesting there as well
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 9, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Hes going to require 1rst round money if you want him to pitch.
If you want him to catch you could probably sign him for slot. I would let him do both his first year and then move him to the mound because thats where his future is.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can he pitch to himself?
That’s got to be a market inefficiency right?
by OldhamA on Jun 9, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the A's get Phegley in the 3rd round
I call this a great draft no matter what else happens.
by AgitationStation on Jun 9, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BA is reporting that Tate is going #3 to SD Pads.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 1:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Scheppers is who I want at #13
I still have a couple of hours to decide right?
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 1:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why Scheppers? (Just curious, not blasting your choice)
I’d think his demands + his injuries would put him out. I honestly think he slips out of round 1.
I don’t know who I “want.”
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 9, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has less leverage than he is posturing.
as he really cant miss two drafts with his injury history its too risky since he would become kinda old. He has been sitting in the high nineties in indy ball, hitting 101 for strike outs in the 4th in his last start. He can be a true #1 or #2 starter in the bigs. The low minors are kinda missing pitching prospects right now and if one of the MAC get hurt or OB regresses we only have head cases (Gio Gallagher and Eveland) and prospects that aren’t ready (Simmons) to fill in.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also the A's can take some risks because we have a good minor league system.
Again i have half an hour to change my mind, which will probably happen.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Andy Seiler's draft chat at First inning.com
[Comment From Bradley]
What are Scheppers demands? I read on BA that he was sitting in the high 90s in his last start and has quelled a lot of the health questions. Could the A’s look at him at 13?
5:29
Andy Seiler: I’ve heard he wants somewhere in the range of $3-4 million. He’s part of the recent group that’s scared teams off due to bonus demands. He might even want a Major League contract. I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt like he could hold out for that amount, even if it means he doesn’t sign. Another year removed from shoulder scares.
5:29
Doug Gray: I don’t think he has quelled the health concerns really because he did have some type of shoulder injury last year and that follows you forever because guys don’t just ocme back from those like they do fro
m TJ. His demands seem to be pretty high though, to the point that he has tallen out of the first round on most boards.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have we picked yet? :-)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Jun 9, 2009 2:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I CHOOSE *YOU*
Er.
Hi BBG.
Anybody else find it kinda weird that last year the draft was covered on ESPN and this year it’s on the MLB Network?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 9, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB network is taking over the world!
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Jun 9, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would be nice if everybody actually friggin carried it.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 9, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi mikev. :-)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Jun 9, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm biased as a former hoosier
but i want arnett or phegley.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Jun 9, 2009 2:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Phegley in the third would be a good pick but arnett i think is going to bust.
lot of mileage on his arm and not much success.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
mileage?
IIRC he didn’t pitch that much sophomore year (i transferred at semester that year). he gained about 3 mph on his sinker this year. we’ll see. he really grew up this season.
i can’t say enough about phegley. it’s between him and brandon crawford for best player i’ve played with. although i’m hoping tyson ross ends up taking that crown :)
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Jun 9, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
when’s the draft? are we going to get an new thread going?
NSFW
by carp on Jun 9, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Draft is in exactly 13 minutes
New thread would be nice.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 9, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did it!
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Jun 9, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BA reporting the first 10 picks will be
Nine of the first 10 picks look fairly certain, with the only question coming at No. 9:
1. Nationals: San Diego State righthander Stephen Strasburg.
2. Mariners: North Carolina first baseman Dustin Ackley.
3. Padres: Georgia HS outfielder Donavan Tate.
4. Pirates: Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez.
5. Orioles: California HS righthander Matt Hobgood.
6. Giants: Georgia HS righthander Zack Wheeler.
7. Braves: Vanderbilt lefthander Mike Minor.
8. Reds: North Carolina righhander Alex White.
10. Nationals: Stanford righthander Drew Storen.
At No. 9, Tigers are deciding whether to spend big (California HS lefthander Tyler Matzek, Missouri HS righty Jacob Turner), smaller (Texas HS righty Shelby Miller) or a little smaller (Arizona State RHP Mike Leake).
At No. 11 the Rockies will take the most signable high school pitcher, and that Arizona State righthander Mike Leake is not in the equation.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 2:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If Matzek makes it to us and we don't pick him I will throw a chair at a wall.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Beane, what are you doing in this thread?
"All your baserunner are belong to Greg Smith" ~ walk off bunt
by Philip Christy on Jun 9, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want any part of a HS pitcher
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Jun 9, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cos Mazzaro, Cahill and Anderson sure didn't work out...
by OldhamA on Jun 9, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different price tags at work there
The A’s didn’t pay Anderson’s bonus while Cahill and Mazzaro signed for slot.
Matzex is gonna sign for way above slot.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will throw Grady Fuson against the wall
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 9, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nats have two picks in the top 10? wowzers.
NSFW
by carp on Jun 9, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Storen at #10?
I understand the reasoning (Strasburg ain’t cheap), but this just supplants the theory that the Nats would be better with something like Ackley/Matzek than Strasburg/Storen. Divide the risk out.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 9, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
Not taking Strasburg would be a colossal failure.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 9, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah no one would let them live it down in DC I mean the team has won less games than Randy Johnson has
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not just Strasburg/Matzek?
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 9, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a hard time trusting a BC player at # 6. Perhaps he’s great…but he doesn’t get on the field until April. Sounds like he’d need more development time.
How’d he do vs the ACC big boys (NC, Ga Tech, NC St, FSU, Miami)?
NSFW
by carp on Jun 9, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This draft piece is AMAZING grover.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Jun 9, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 9, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You always were the nice one in management
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+!
grover does excellent work as always
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NEW DRAFT THREAD OPEN!
Thought we’d do a play-by-play
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2009/6/9/904082/open-thread-the-2009-draft
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Jun 9, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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