Calling All Long-Lost Members
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 8, 2009 2:16 AM PDT
252 comments
Hello AN! Let me start by saying how happy I am to see the big league club FINALLY performing well and starting to gel as the weather starts to warm. Sound familiar?
Now on to business...
This past offseason should have been a happy time for every A's fan on earth unless you were a fan of Huston Street, Greg Smith, and/or Carlos Gonzalez. However, what ended up happening was AN lost a large number of its more prolific posters. This has happened a lot since I joined this wonderful, A's-loving community but not to this degree. I remember the wonderful DLDs where Sharon, Jennifer, and salb918 had countless discussions about a certain welcoming, larger-than-life snowman. I remember PaulThomas' excellent stats, dry wit, and (at times) harsh demeanor. I remember monkeyball's poetic interludes, jd44's blunt yet needed analysis, grover's and xbhaskar's regular posting, Apricot, Ice Cream, and McFood as themselves, and most importantly the AN of the past.
Before the current residents of AN begin polishing their proverbial pitchforks let me say that I still love AN. There isn't a day gone by where I haven't checked this website many times. I'm not here to condemn the current heads of this site and I'm not here to say that the people who do post regularly are subpar. What I am doing is asking that AN's long lost brothers and sisters return, despite their differing opinions on the current state of this blog.
Of course life can get in the way so if these missing posters are just living their lives and aren't able to come to AN regularly then they don't need to feel bad. But if they left because they felt that AN was getting too political or yahoo-ey then they need to know that there are tons and tons of members who miss their invaluable contributions. I say this because I am absolutely certain that the majority of AN misses its founding fathers and mothers. The group we have now is awesome but it certainly lacks the insights and products provided from the aforementioned MIAs.
I am writing this hoping that they still read AN enough to see this call to action and that our community will become even more populated. If nobody comes back then I would just like to say that I hope our community continues to expand and educate the uneducated, inspired the uninspired, and enrich the poor. But really the bottom line is how much better we are than Halo's Heaven and we shouldn't refuse any additional help.
On an aside: Everyone needs to stop recognizing the stats vs. non-stats debate. Stats are essential in baseball as is scouting. If neither was important then they wouldn't be used by GMs on an every day basis. Neither side needs to proclaim that they are superior because there's no reason why either should exist without the other. Respect stats and respect eyeball analysis and we're all good. But mainly respect other people and then we're definitely on the right path.
I will now defer to a (snow)man much more influential than myself to convince you to return:
via robertd.files.wordpress.com
7 recs |
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I wish they would to
I think those who’ve enjoyed the contributions from old members know where they post now. I find myself checking that site and this site but neither really has captivated me the way AN used to. I remember reading to the point where there were no unread comments. Now neither site captivates my attention so much.
And as a lazy college student, I assure you it’s not for lack of free time.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 8, 2009 2:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
agrd.
I preferred one-stop shopping too, but…shit happens. They couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again, either.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure a lot of people have left because life got in the way
but there were definitely a handful of insightful and prolific posters who left because of the PaulThomas debacle. That whole ordeal made AN more difficult for everyone, regardless of their position, but if people are staying away because of it I would argue they could bring about the change in the community they desire much more so by contributing, and continuing to argue their points vociferously and with evidence, than by dropping out.
I really think this thread is a good idea. Nico has asked people to write to PaulThomas if they miss him so much, but I don’t think Paul would know who I am. Perhaps a forum for people to collectively remember what they enjoyed so much about these members, and how much they’ve learned from this site, might convince a couple posters to reconsider.
To that end, PaulThomas taught me that it only takes two minutes to look something up and reaffirmed my own personal distaste for intellectual laziness. Monkeyball played a pivotal role in my understanding AN as a community more than a message board. He made me laugh, but argued his points as forcefully as anyone. He also taught me that correlation doesn’t necessarily equal causation, which I actually think is pertinent given the critiques of team “character” and vitriolic rounds of manager bashing on AN these days. 74mk showed me that on baseball blogs, as in life, you will always come out better for stating your case articulately and gracefully. Iamawsomer showed that you don’t necessarily have to be an AN regular, or an insider, to post incredibly informative content. Salb918 and Andeux both helped to me to understand baseball in new, more complete ways, which I had never imagined when I got back into baseball in the early 2000s, after a 10-year hiatus.
These are some of the AN members I have enjoyed the most, and I’m certain that my contributions to this community will never amount to a fraction of their’s. I also wish a lot of these folks would come back because I tend to lean toward a stat-oriented view of the game, but, alas, I am an English/History major with poor math skills, and I’m pretty sure they can provide statistical insights in a much more informed, less buffoonish manner than myself. C’mon all you PaulThomases and Salb918s, don’t let assholes like me ruin all your hard work.
by scromulus on Jun 8, 2009 3:11 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
I will put some thought in to how I articulate my thoughts on this, but off the top of my head….I liked AN before PT, and while I can concede that he is bright, we never got along(I am sure that this is due to my own failings rather than his) and my life is better with less PT/vitriol/condescension….There is room for personalities here, but I prefer it when the team is the focus of this site, as opposed to the members. Let’s save the drama for facebook.
P.s. The Nico birthday thread kind of made me throw up in my mouth a little…
"It calms down as we get further from Opening Day " Jeff
by tresselfan on Jun 8, 2009 5:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not due to your own failings.
That guy was deliberately terse on occasions when there was no need for it. Probably a result of Internet personality disfunctions.
by LowcountryJoe on Jun 8, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah there were times when he was out of line.
But he still made me laugh on numerous occasions, and he just had so much knowledge to offer to the community. When he was banned, i didn’t come to this site nearly as often.
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Jun 8, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy deliberately tried to intimidate new members
Not that I particularly am sympathetic to people who cannot reply to Internet bullying where it exists, but that he seemed to come off with an attitude that he was larger (a bigger personality) than anyone else that posts here. That type of ego and mindset on Internet forums is offputting and weak sauce bullshit. I personally enjoy watching another well articulating poster break off something proper on an Internet bully. And though I had some sympathy for the idea that the word “hero” is way overused, I did think that it was time that the community send a message that apparently had not been recieved well enough the (at the very least) two previous times before.
by LowcountryJoe on Jun 8, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude everybody tries to intimidate new posters who post stupid crap.
Mods, PT, everybody.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody?
I’m willing to wager that not everybody is as interested in how new someone is than you might think and would address stupid comments with the same style and content no matter who was being responded to.
Also, many more persons use sarcasm as a much lesser form of intimidation — if you can call it that — than outright flaming, name calling, and the intellectually weak-minded ’I’ve been here much longer than you have’ mentality.
by LowcountryJoe on Jun 9, 2009 5:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've commented many times and in many threads
that we need to be nice to the newbies, mostly because a lot of them are younger fans, and thus, their contributions are more likely to be missspelled and/or not so well thought out. I would hate for some 15 year old to give up being a baseball fan because he got hated on on AN.
However, it’s not easy. There are definitely a few regular posters who post some stupid-ass s**t on a pretty regular basis, and it takes a lot of willpower not to call them out on it.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be more efficient and therefore better for the environment if you just called them on it
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be the Vulcan thing to do,
but I’m a Klingon, so all I’m good for is getting drunk and cutting off heads!
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was a shame
It was a bummer that someone who had such a deep knowledge of the game was such a pompus douchbag. When I would think about PT outside of this forum all I could picture was the guy from office space playing gansta rap in his car all hard and then quickly rolling up his window when in ear shot of people. I still read everyday but he literally put me in my place when I had a good “feeling” about the A’s direction during a losing streak. I have been an A’s fan for my entire life but somehow, due to lack of stat retention I was made to feel like less of a fan. I dunno, the 12 years my family held season tickets prior to me moving south meant nothing. There was “that” period when being a fan wasn’t enough to be able to post on AN. Comment not lest thee be judged kinda thing. Early AN was…….well for lack of a better word magical. It used to be a great place for us to unite against ESPN and the east coast bias, a wonderful haven from the wash of NorCal G-nats fans (all over Santa Cruz) and most of all fun.
I was happy to learn from all of the bright contributers, but also reluctant to post. I am usually a background type of guy, but I even got a strike for my, well less than mature PT related sig. Due to life I will never be able to spend the time memorizing, categorizing and spell checking <:)> the stats of the game. I am, for example, stoked about the winning streak, but am not certain of how many times the pitcher looked back the runner at second followed by a curveball away to switch hitters during the current win streak, so I will read instead. Wow, I’m shocked you read this far!
Save the thesaurus for when you are in front of the judge. When speaking of the A's, speak with your heart on...................your sleeve!
by norcalfan on Jun 9, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering how much discussion there continues to be about PT,
even nearly 3 months after his departure… and how many people have opined, accurately or not, about PT’s influence regarding the absence of other posters… I’d say there must be some credence to the “bigger personality” thing.
Prithee, be not perturbed by yon third bagger.
by Poppy on Jun 10, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, it's fading.
Another three months and there will only be a dim collective recall. Sort of like reztips or Randy Bell.
FSU, Sal, MB, these were true losses. PT was far to much a polarizing personality. Truth be told, I did enjoy his musings on occasion. He’s a bright kid though, so I’m sure he will fare well.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jun 10, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A little of both...
For me, the reason I am not around as much is a little of both. Life did get in the way, but I found myself being less and less interested in commenting here. Let me explain…
Life got in the way… A while ago, when I was more active, I was working as a Marketing Assistant and I had a LOT of down time in my job. I had a lot of time to sit and surf the internet and read everything here thoroughly. Today, I am an Unemployed Graduate Student who is just about to start writing her thesis. I am just not spending as much time attached to my computer, and when I am it is with a very specific purpose. I have enough time to check in, read the headlines on AN, and only read those blogs that I am MOST interested in.
Which brings me to my issues with AN… To be 100% honest, it got frustrating. It seems like there will be 8 posts a day about the same topic. A least half of them say the exact same thing as the others, or they are not intelligently written enough for me to bother. I was so tired of reading post after post of people either stirring up drama or beating a dead horse, I just couldn’t take it any more. So I have become much more selective about what topics I give my time to and who I make a point to read. Some people here are very insightful and always articulate their points clearly. Even if I don’t agree with them, I appreciate someone who can express themselves in an intelligent way. Unfortunately, there have been fewer and fewer of those people and more and more people coming here just to express how much the A’s suck. I just don’t have the energy or the time for that.
I am still here, I do still read most of the posts. I have been here for years and I am not going anywhere. I am just more selective of how I spend my limited amount of time.
"He's day-to-day," Geren said. "But aren't we all?" - 5/29/08
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Jun 8, 2009 6:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I pretty much feel the same way
Save Rajai Davis
by oakinboston on Jun 8, 2009 6:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
… and here i figured it was that whole “Gina” thing.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 8, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Winning isn't everything, but it sure beats the hell out of losing.
by IHeartDwayneMurphy on Jun 8, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened to PT?
I missed all this
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Jun 8, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He flung poo and somrt of wandered o...
oh, PT? Um, he did not play well with others and was given a timeout.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 9, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
People who think they're better than everyone else
tend not to play well with others, and have very little patience for their foibles.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your title brings
John Wayne Bobbitt to mind.
Brian in 317 checking in…
Not too into sharing lately, but I lurk like you wouldn’t believe. I also like to eat a little kraut every once in a while
by Brian in 317 on Jun 8, 2009 7:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This
Yeah, I’ve largely lurked on this site for nearly four years now. I mostly visit AN to read A’s news/opinions/statistics/etc. from other die-hard A’s fanatics. Sometimes I’ll visit after/during/before a game to dwell in sorrow after a loss/blowout or grin in jubilation after a win/amazing play/noteworthy transaction,etc. There haven’t been, honestly, any particular poster(s) I’ve found myself attached to, I enjoy the larger, collective community. . . ya know, as a whole. :)
"It's never 'just a game' if you're winning" - George Carlin
by bluelightrain84 on Jun 8, 2009 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was gone for a while, then came back
It was life. Honestly.
Now that I’m a barely-employed student out of school for the summer (stupid job market), I’ll be around more.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 8, 2009 8:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There was something about the off-season
and particularly after two lousy years that made things very vitriolic at AN. Can’t explain it.
The big areas of dispute seemed to be a) Holliday deal. Jury still way out on that one as Holliday and A’s perform better but CarGo is now at big league level after blistering AAA stretch; b) the young kids. PT and others argued long and hard against MAC coming up, and decided Beane and A’s would never do it. Well it’s early June, they’re all up, and so far the verdict is a good one with a lot left in the story, including injury risk and rookie inconsistency.; c) whether or not Beane, in light of a) and b), was still Beane, a debate that still goes on and various of us have doubted him, probably unwisely.
I would propose that people bury their past positioning and accept the team for what it is: a pretty interesting attempt to build for the long-term while at the same time contend in the short run. Two weeks ago a lot of us— myself included— were very negative about both. Turns out our judgment was way premature. Beane has a way of doing that, doesn’t he??
This can still be a very interesting forum without all the vitriol. The team is and has been one of the more fascinating subjects in pro sports for about a decade now. We should welcome all comers and welcome back those who strayed and hope they return soon.
by jasonthea on Jun 8, 2009 8:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
I have a really hard time understanding how you could say
so far the verdict is a good one
Until our little winning streak the A’s had one of the worst records in all of baseball. Every veteran that bean brought on has hit severely below their career numbers or even expectations. Cahill and Anderson have gotten extremely lucky and yet still not pitched very well. We pissed away 2 years of Cahill and Anderson, 6 years of Cargon, and whatever prospects we could have gotten for street this offseason, a second round draft pick and 23 million dollars. Its been a pretty unmitigated failure of a year so far. The A’s still only have a 5% chance of winning the division despite our six game winning streak.
The problems with AN have nothing to do with the team in my opinion. Though the hysterical swings in whether Beane is lazy, nepotistic, and doesn’t care about baseball anymore or a genius and this team was well constructed being blasted on the front page IMO are.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aha!!
Well my verdict is the last 21 games of the rotation, which, other than 2 starts from Edgar Gonzalez, was all MAC, Outman and Braden. Collective ERA: 2.64, WHIP 1.11
Mazzaro has had two fabulous starts; Cahill is clearly improving after a shaky beginning; Anderson has been more up and down; Outman has been pretty darn solid.
I don’t see how you can’t say that the “verdict is a good one” unless you expected them all to be Sandy Koufax in his prime. The “pissed away 2 years of Cahill and Anderson” is fallacious, for reasons many have noted. Cargo is still a legit issue as I noted originally.
“pretty unmitigated failure of a year so far”— Now we’re approaching vitriol, and I won’t go there. I was close to this view a week ago, but not that far given what were already better pitching trends.
“every veteran.. severely below their career numbers” Well Adam Kennedy has not. And now Matt Holliday, also, whose OPS has been at 1000 for the past month.
“The little winning streak” has been 6 games and a 38-8 run differential. Bad teams rarely put that kind of run together. I’m not saying they are yet a good team, but I think we can all be a lot closer to the fact that they are not a bad team.
by jasonthea on Jun 8, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, sorry playing shitty teams doesn't make up for lack of ready tallent
We played 3 against Arizona, 3 against Seattle, 3 against the Oriels, and 4 against the White Soxs in those 21 games. While only playing 4 games against teams with winning records.
Cahill: 6.11 TRA 5.19 FIP
Anderson 4.88 TRA 5.31 FIP
Those numbers are way below league average. They show that they are not ready for the Show and needed AAA seasoning. Instead of giving them AAA seasoning we traded watching them struggle in the Bigs now (which BTW is what all the projection systems were saying would happen) for their year 27 production which considering their immense talents is likely to be quite valuable. I have proven that the expected value is about $4.55m dollars each in present value valuable, which is going to be lost.
Even with our winning streak we re three games a head of the second worst record in baseball.
Your right, Kennedy isn’t performing below their career numbers. I was talking about offseason acquisitions, but they probably shouldn’t have been seperated.
Holliday is hitting much much better, still isn’t hitting like he did in Colorado, and is expected by ZIPs to maintain his current wOBA for the rest of the year. Which still doesn’t matter if the A’s don’t get anyone good for him or make the playoffs.
My point is the A’s are still a bad team, they’re just not ungodly awful, and the optimism is misplaced.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how you don't mention
either Outman or Mazzaro. Were Gallagher, Gio and Eveland “ready for the show?” Fact is, Cahill and Anderson are on this team because they are/were doing better than the other available options. As is Outman. And Mazzaro. “I have proven….”— tell Billy Beane to rob a bank for the 9 million, I guess he didn’t have a backup plan.
For the past month plus— in a much worse hitting park half the games— Holliday is hitting exactly what he did in Colorado;
“The A’s are still a bad team”— we can come back to that one in a week or two weeks’ time; If you deduct the pitching performances of all the guys (Gio, Eveland, Gallagher, Giese, etc..) no longer on the squad, they would have a positive run differential. I don’t see how that makes them still a “bad team”, but fine. Truth will out.
3 games ahead of the 2nd worst record in baseball; or 3 games BACK of the consensus pick to win the division. Pick your glass— half empty or half full.
by jasonthea on Jun 8, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here are the most recent performances
for the two pitchers “not ready for the Show”
4 starts each Cahill and Anderson
48 IP 6.0 per start
45 H/ 8 W WHIP of 1.10 I would think the walk number is more than a little significant and could be evidence of some maturing going on
17ERs ERA 3.18
34 Ks K/W ratio of 4.5/1
OK it wasn’t the Yankees and the Red Sox. But at some point you have to get off your soap box and actually consider the facts
by jasonthea on Jun 8, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Cahill and Anderson, to date, have performed entirely as expected, which is to say they struggled hard out of the gate, and are improving rapidly. There were no better alternatives at the start of the season, so I’m glad the A’s fielded the most competitive big league team they could. At the end of the day, we have no idea if Cahill and Anderson are going to matter six years from now.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 8, 2009 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you get the expected river card doesn't mean you should have been playing the hand
Again Im not saying that Cahill or Anderson won’t improve. Nor am I saying that they haven’t already gotten better. What I am saying is the expected value of having them in the rotation over Eveland, Gio, or Gallagher is negative in the range of millions of dollars. The hand should not have been played and Wolff’s tinkering, I believe, has significantly undermined the future of this club.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been through this many times before
For me, it just boils down to the fact that I don’t find the idea of deliberately being worse now for the sake of a potential payoff from two players six years from now compelling. I also don’t subscribe to the fatalism that suggests Cahill and Anderson, are by necessity, six year propositions.
This is for reasons both statistical and non-statistical. I think banking on expected value six years from now, from two players, is putting way too much stock in the capabilities or predictive statistics. If we could predict a sample of two players using statistics that reliably, baseball teams could be managed by robots. On the other side, every fiber of my being resents being less than as competitive as possible when it costs nothing in the present to do so.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 8, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1111111111111111
couldn’t have said it any better.
by jasonthea on Jun 8, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think they were rushed, though?
Just because a team might be better by promoting players doesn’t mean its better for the team to do so. I think that Cahill/Anderson weren’t ready for the next step, and the fact that they were the teams best option is a testament to how shitty the team really is/was, not how good Cahill/Anderson.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 8, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you never have a rebuilding year?
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ideally, no...
with this payroll, it has to happen once in a while, but, ideally, no way.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was tounge in cheek
I love trades, I love trade rumors. The A’s make a ton of moves and rarely do you hear about them early, I like all the speculation.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just say no ...
… to “tounge” 
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 9, 2009 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah that was suppose to be a reply to the trade rumor part.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha, guy...
and I just want to take this opportunity to say that even though it is true that the A’s have been padding the victory totals against such weak sisters as Baltimore and Chicago, I believe that this club, rather than regress to a mediocre mean, will continue to surge against other crappy teams like the Giants, Rockies, Indians, and Rays.
Other than the 11 games in Yankee Stadium and Fenway, the schedule ahead doesn’t look too scary. There is definitely cause for guarded optimism at this time.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't rebuild, you reload.
At least that’s what Billy Beane told me.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 9, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe you can only reload for so long
Eventually drafting at the back end of the draft for years bites you in the ass if you are a small market team.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eventually you have to upgrade to a bigger gun.
by LoneStranger on Jun 9, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 9, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well played.
thats twice in one thread… impressive.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why's The Dude on a boat?
Very unDude-like.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 9, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's no dude -- that's Mr. Holland.
He’s looking for Opus.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 10, 2009 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also in theory and in my estimation expected value encompasses the risk that they suck in 6 years
It should be a derivative of the function of all the possible values that their services can provide when graphed against the probability of those services. I used a spread of outcomes from top 50 pitching prospects in 2001 to calculate it and reach the $4.55m value expected value. And im using expected value in an economics sense not a lay sense.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
gosh, I have to comment on this...
I would follow the team less if Billy Beane or anyone in the front office leaked inforrmation about drafts/trades, etc…
It’s bad for business, and eventually would cost the team victories.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Congradulations...
you have shown that a couple of extremely talented young pitchers could string together a couple of good starts against some pretty bad teams.
But you have to realize that you cherry pick the data… Anderson has only made it to the 5th inning in half of his last 6 starts, but you conveniently start your consideration after two terrible outings. The same goes with Cahill who one start before you started counting had a 2 inning start where he gave up 7 runs.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Focusing on their first halves
is also cherry picking the data. The second half is probably a more relevant sample, too.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 8, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not focusing on their first halfs
Im focusing on all of the pitching they have done so far this year. The A’s need to play something like 636 ball from when I did the last calc to the end of the season to even sniff the playoffs in a terribly weak division. The inconsistencies from a rotation of 4 rookies makes that practically impossible.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outman "inconsistented"
his way to another win tonight. That;s now 20 out of 22 quality starts or “virtual” quality starts (the 5+ inning kind) for this inconsistent rotation.
636 ball? Really. Well, they are currently 26-30. 106 games left. 636 ball would be 67 wins. (actually 67 wins would be .632 ball, but let’s not quibble) That would be 93 wins. That only “sniffs” the playoffs in a “terribly weak” division??!!
To quote John McEnroe: “YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS”.
I’m not saying they will do this, but a much better prediction would be if the A’s played .600 ball from here on out— which would produce 89-90 wins— they’d have a pretty decent chance at winning an average division. (Check the standings, the AL West collectively is now 4 games above .500, hardly a “terribly weak division”)
by jasonthea on Jun 8, 2009 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again I said that I did the calcs a couple of days ago...
so at the time i was looking at 87 wins. And I was really the only one on the Outman train in ST and when he had a rough pair of starts to start the year so suggesting that I think he is inconsistent isn’t accurate. Im merely suggesting that when 4 rooks can’t get scorched for several games in a row and still play 600 ball. Playing 600 ball is very very hard. Especially when its not against the Os and the White Soxs.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well it was never 636
Even at 19-30— pretty much the recent low point— with 113 games left— 600 ball gets you to 87 wins.
No one thought 750 ball for an entire second half was possible; or a 20 game winning streak.
Not saying the Four Freshman are as good as the Big Three— not saying this team is anywhere near as good as 2001-02. Am saying the bar is lower and .600 ball the rest of the way, while unlikely, no longer seems like a pipe dream given how well these pitchers are performing.
by jasonthea on Jun 9, 2009 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's definitely not a pipe dream.
Confidence matters a lot. It’s a placebo that’s more powerful than drugs.
The more success this team has, the more confident they are, the better they play, the more they believe in themselves, lather rinse repeat…
Take it to the bank that the confidence that these pitchers gain with every quality start brings tangible positive results in later starts.
How does one put a value on confidence? Yet, I personally think that the experience and confidence gained by the pitching staff in this season has the potential to more than offset any expected value losses possibly realized if any of these pitchers leave club control a year earlier than they otherwise would have.
Plus, it would be a little counterproductive to have any of these guys doing their major league learning in the middle of a serious pennant race that the club expects to win and had been planning towards for years (2010/11). I’d rather have their learning curve(s) begin now and have them be more experienced players during a serious contention year than be raw rookies in said year.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's this kind of stuff that makes the season worth watching
even when their playoff hopes are spiraling down the crapper.
I want to see the flashes of brilliance that make ME confident that these players are legit, if still learning.
The best part about seeing these young guys struggle in their youth is that when they overcome that later on, we can say we saw them grow and become the major league players that they will be in 2010-12 and thereabouts. We learn about them. We grieve when they grieve, we celebrate when they celebrate and by being loyal, attending games and rooting for them, it’s like we’re fighting the fight along side them. Even if it’s just emotionally, we ride that rollercoaster. They become more than just faceless ‘ball players’ and turn into real people.
These guys may not be your ‘favorite team’ when you think back on past A’s seasons, but these guys will be someone’s favorite when they think back in fifteen years about not only this season, but the seasons we have ahead.
I think I’ve just gone off topic.
by LoneStranger on Jun 9, 2009 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rock on!
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this brings to mind a low point for one of AN's Long-Lost Members
“Confidence matters a lot. It’s a placebo that’s more powerful than drugs.”
PaulThomas lost a good amount of credibility with me when, during the thread in praise of DFA, he refused to acknowledge that confidence played any role in player performance, even over the short-term (streaks could only be attributed to luck, he said). The true talent level estimates to which he was appealing are not quite accurate enough to compensate for PT’s lack of common sense
by Cutthemullet on Jun 9, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PT could not fathom
that which he couldn’t understand. He seemed to operate under the delusion that that which cannot be graphed and empirically proven cannot exist. Which may be why God hates him. That, and he was sorely lacking in life experience.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jun 9, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought a lot like him when I was 21.
I ate a lot of fungus when I was 22.
I thought nothing like him at 23.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free your mind
and your ass will follow.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 9, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PT might not have been a saint
But this comment is worse than anything he ever said.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Jun 9, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Surely not worse.
By any stretch of the imagination.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jun 10, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You cant do that... Every team gives innings to filler
You cant just say oh ignore the filler.
Second Im not sure what you mean by your robbing the bank statement. Also no where have I blamed Beane in this mess.
The ZIPs projections don’t support Holliday maintaining the pace hes been on recently, though I hope he does, and he isn’t going to be a 6.5-8 win player this year.
You do realize that the consensus pick to win the division had its entire starting rotation go down. The fact that we still trail them at this point shows that even when everything broke right for the A’s in terms of their opponents weakness, they still sucked it up enough to put them in a big hole. Also while some of Texas’ pitching is Smoak and mirrors (;-P) much of their improvement can be traced to their dramatically improved defense. Don’t discount them yet.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will ignore the filler
when it’s all in Sacramento.
You implied a criticism of Beane for moving Cahill and Anderson in the rotation for the entire year and not after the service time threshold. If you believe it’s all Lew Wolff’s fault— assuming there is fault, of course, then I stand corrected.
No one figured Holliday would match his Coors Field performance for the entire year. He’s been awful good the last month and has a history of doing even better through the summer. Let’s see what happens.
A’s had injuries, too, as Beane referenced in the Lowell Cohn interview. Lost their #1 starter; their probable closer; their starting 3Bman and his backup; their starting 2B man; and a couple of other pitchers. They didn’t just “suck it up”, did they??
Texas is better— we can all see that. How much better is going to depend mainly on pitching in the hot weather.
As for the cherry-picking, I’m going for the what have you done me lately approach. Of course it is highly unlikely that the current rotation will have a 2.64 ERA and 1.11 WHIP in the next 21 starts. (If they do, the team will likely be above .500 and perhaps two or three games closer to the lead by the end of June) But it is undeniably true that previous A’s teams have shown that a group of young pitchers can feed off each other’s success, and that pitchers can grow or mature as they gain experience. Will each have trials and tribulations the rest of the way? Of course. But I happen to believe the last three/four weeks is more instructive than the month or so that came before it.
by jasonthea on Jun 8, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring back Jay Witasick!
And his tube top :)
I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?
by str8tarrow on Jun 8, 2009 8:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 8, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having been here for a while now...
…I’m off the opinion that many of the so called “old” posters left principley because of the fact that AN had grown from the small yet very dedicated community that debuted in the summer of ‘04 to a much larger and perhaps less personal community that exists today. Whatever. AN’s a decent enough place, expansion was inevitable. Fortunately, I have a NTC.
Of course, there are exceptions such as Mr. Thomas, who seems to have be like one of those artists who everyone now appreciates, but only after he’s disappeared.
by Pucking Insane on Jun 8, 2009 9:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jesus is the Abner Doubleday of religion.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tired of the lamenting about the "old times"
AN has so become the indie band that has now become mainstream. I still love it. It’s a blog about a sports team, so I’m not going to take it so seriously and treat it as an outlet of entertainment. I’m more of a game thread devotee. Good times are had there.
“Where Have All the Good ANers Gone?” by the Kinks
Won’t you tell me
Where have all the good ANers gone?
Where have all the good ANers gone?
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jun 8, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where have all the good ANers gone?
Do I feel fucking appreciated right now.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm was hidden in that post somewhere, as the Kinks song is sung tongue in cheek
I love your Minors report, grover. You are an AN stalwart.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jun 8, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only kinks I listen to anymore are in my back and knees
So I missed the tune reference.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I just love you.
actually a lot of us do. you’re warm and fuzzy. how could we not love you?
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was a Peter, Paul, and Mary reference
lord, I’m old
by redtopcowboy on Jun 8, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the Kinks singing this song for those who want to hear it
Where Have All The Good Times Gone?, followed up with what could be an anthem for game threads…
BTW, Ray Davies was 21 years old when he wrote this, and Dave was 18.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 8, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were a lot of people that were pissed about PT at the time
AN has a gaping hole where he left.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess PT should have done more to behave himself and stick around
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or others should have baited him less
/ not assumed that just because PT said something it was automatically a dickhead thing to say.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop trying to make PT into some kind of victim
He earned his ban, just as he earned the right to come back after 30 days if he chose to do so.
He chose not to.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to start the debate again,
but in that thread (Remember hte Fallen Officers) I guess I’m just missing what PT did that was so wrong.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 8, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck that thread
If you actually read Pt’s abundance of comments over the course of his time on AN then you saw more than 3 instances where his occasionally abrasive behavior went way over the line.
He earned his ban. He chose not to come back.
End o’ story.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You realize he's not banned any longer, right?
It’s his choice to remain gone.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he come back to somewhere that ridiculously banned him?
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you read the conversation between Nico and Paul Thomas it was evident
that his departure was permanent by his own choice, regardless of the option. I believe he is studying law at Stanford, and he pretty much put it that he was overextended and so he was setting a new personal direction. I think he had a “Stanford basketball” blog at one point, and dropped that.
I’ve known a lot of lawyers over the years, and some enjoy being contrary to a fault. Paul Thomas seems to be in that mode, but people change, esp. people with intellect. No question, he had that.
I have participated in some stock market forums quite vigorously, then one day, dropped it, never looked back, then went back to one or two, then dropped them again, permanently. It’s an “internet thing”, this abrupt dropping. I believe it is a characteristic of conversation by typing.
"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw
by One won lost won on Jun 8, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As it's been noted before, PaulThomas is free to return any time he wants
Whether people agree with the temporary ban or not, it happened and there is no questioning the fact that he was very difficult to get along with on many occasions. Sometimes a “time out” is needed for someone to reflect on that.
As much as you may feel he was a victim – and it may have been the case from time to time – there were numerous examples of him attacking others without justification.
But again, the choice to post here again or not is in his hands now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I find you far more difficult to get along with than he ever was...
and you were mad a mod.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops should read...made a mod
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Banned for typos.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im a terrible speller/proofer.
If that is cause for bANning then bAN away, Im guilty as charged.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why, because we disagree on how certain stats are used and we're both stubborn about it at times?
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, it has absolutely nothing to do with that.
As I’m sure you know, I think you are wrong about baseball a lot. However, I am of the firm belief that you have every right to disagree with whatever I say even if it makes you wrong (at least in my eyes). My problem with you is that almost without exception you never contribute to productive debate, but prefer to use personal attacks, sarcasm, and sniping often from behind Nico. You have every right to think that statistics do not paint an accurate picture. However, rather than calling people idiots/sniping at people you disagree with for using statistics to show, for example, a player’s value in a season, a productive community member would explain why statistics do not adequately capture the value that they seek to. You refuse to engage in real debate and invariably drive up rhetoric leading to the online shouting matches that have recently characterized AN when anything of real substance is talked about.
You have also personally belittled my fandom because I don’t watch a lot of games, due to economic (Im unemployed recently graduated ex-student working my way through school so no cable/MLB.tv), technological (MLB.tv doesn’t work with linux which is my only computer’s operating system) and geographic (until recently I spent the last five years in MLB.tv black out areas of Oregon, even if I could afford MLB.tv, and its not like ESPN covers a lot of A’s games that I could watch in the dorm) reasons beyond my control.
Paul Thomas treated me with respect in my interactions with him, though I have seen him be terse on occasion. My interactions with you almost always leave me thinking that you both rude and an the quintessential example of why AN no longer even close to as interesting and informative as it was. He was banned, you were made a mod and I think that is quite sad.
It has nothing to do with your opinions on baseball.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recall ever belittling your fandom based on what you can or can't watch. I didn't even know where you live.
Suffice it to say, some of the frustrations you’ve had with me, I feel toward you as well. I don’t think we will ever see eye to eye on certain things, nor will we ever really get along with each other. I am definitely guilty of resorting to sarcasm at times but I’ve worked to cut down on any kinds of personal attacks, focusing more on what’s said than who’s saying it. There are some things that I just don’t feel require an in-depth rebuttal, and that’s the way it goes.
I believe the truth is there needs to be a fair and equal balance of stats and what people see with their own eyes, but I’d be just as critical of people who act like someone sucks just because they have a few rough games as I’d be of people who act like analysis begins and ends with stats, especially when people pick and choose which ones they believe are the most important. That’s all interpretation and one stat can be used to back up this opinion while another can be used to dispute it. There is no right or wrong there, as much as some people might want to claim otherwise. Yes, I have been caught up in the back-and-forth of an argument that deteriorates, but we’ve both been guilty of that and I’m not the only one you’ve done that dance with.
I strongly disagree with your belief that I essentially hide behind Nico, but you’re free to believe whatever you want. I’m not going to attempt to change your mind on that one because it seems you’ve made it up already simply because I’ve taken his side and agreed with him. If anything these days, I’ve seen you going out of your way to throw stones at Nico and his judgment about players and such whenever you think you can slip it in. Your “Poythress/Tate” comment, which you ended by tossing in a criticism of Nico’s scouting completely out of the blue, is an example of that.
Whatever the case, PT’s temporary ban and my brief period as a mod (which I am no longer, just a gameday writer, which I’m on a temporary hiatus from thanks to dealing with getting settled into a house I bought) have nothing to do with each other. I can tell you that much for certain.
There are a lot of things I’ve just tried to stay out of lately and I’ve had to work to ignore a few people. I’m beginning to think I’ll need to start ignoring you as well.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
First an appology
I looked it up as it was a long time ago and it was FoolishGame22 not Flashfire that made the remark. I was mistaken and apologize for making that accusation.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, at least
And if I did ever do anything that made you feel unwelcome here based on something like that, I do apologize. I’m not trying to make anyone feel like they aren’t welcome here. Please don’t mistake the way I come off sometimes with that. I do get into modes where I hold fast to what I believe, I react stubbornly, I say exactly what I feel, and sometimes have to have the last word. It’s not a good mood to get into.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem admitting when Im wrong.
and in this case I clearly was. Though the rest of what I said I still stand by.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AN would be a far better place if everyone could admit they were wrong at times.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 9, 2009 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moving forward, let it be known
I am wrong most of the time
Save the thesaurus for when you are in front of the judge. When speaking of the A's, speak with your heart on...................your sleeve!
by norcalfan on Jun 9, 2009 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only question now is whether or not
that statement is wrong…..
by LoneStranger on Jun 9, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think...
…that whether it’s fair or not, I’m coming to understand that because I was a mod and do gameday threads, some people see things I say as me trying to speak for AN or something like that. It’s not the case. The things I say, I say them because they’re what I feel and believe. I know a lot of people have a bigger issue with that where Nico is concerned because of how much he writes here, but those are merely his beliefs. It doesn’t mean AN follows his lead or people are expected to go along with what he thinks.
Sometimes I wonder if we need a disclaimer that our opinions are not necessarily representative of AN’s as a whole. People’s points of view vary enough that they never could be AN’s as a whole. People are almost always going to disagree on some things, but the important thing is while people like Nico, basebalgirl, 67MARQUEZ, Taj Adib, grover and even myself have the ability to put our opinions on the front page (though I don’t), everyone can write a fanpost any time they want to discuss something. Yeah, I’ll get annoyed when the same stuff is being repeated in multiple posts, but I’ll never tell someone they can’t speak their mind if they have something to say. I might just tell them there’s already a thread for it.
Hope that helps clarify it a little.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda
I think the problem with Nico is that now Nico = AN because there is so much less content from other writers than there use to be. It use to be Nico was a voice among many now it is Nico is the voice of AN an others do vacation relief. I love Marquez and BBG’s write ups. I relish those games because I like their analysis and feel like they are less moody about their views (I don’t here Nico calling for Beane to quit anymore do you?). But they don’t seem to be as frequent as they use to be. At least that is how it seems to me as a long time lurker/ nearly 1,000 comment poster.
That also carries on to comment threads. When you and Nico gang up on people its the AN power brokers who are coming after you rather than just another poster.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you're saying
That’s part of why some of us are hoping there are others who will take up the challenge to present a wider variety of voices here. Even if it means someone doing it once in a while, it’s something. I fall into the easy trap of just reacting to what others say.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 9, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second a response to the rest of it.
You asked me why I think you are worse than PT and I gave you an honest answer. You don’t actually engage in the debate you just dictate opinions.
people who act like analysis begins and ends with stats, especially when people pick and choose which ones they believe are the most important. That’s all interpretation and one stat can be used to back up this opinion while another can be used to dispute it. There is no right or wrong there, as much as some people might want to claim otherwise.
This is exactly my point. You never make any of those distinctions when people present stats, which would be great and spur a lot of interesting debate and that is the beauty of stats. Further you never make the argument about your scouting on how to evaluate scouting or what you see holistically in a way that creates an end evaluation. How much is D worth? How much is the bat worth? Is a number two starter more valuable than a good second basemen? You haven’t ever presented a way of evaluating things. You just throw stones at others.
I “throw stones” at Nico because I believe he makes bad arguments a lot, and on a personal level have a knack of aligning myself against established authority (something that im working on). However, the arguments I make against Nico are well grounded in accepted baseball evaluation tools which disagree with him. For example the scouting argument, which really isn’t my thing anyway I like the economics of baseball, I merely stated that if hes calling something a scouting report and using the terms scouts use that he should actually mean what the scouting community means when he uses them. I don’t think thats an outlandish argument. Nico came back with: fan scouting sucks but mine is awesome and you don’t respect me if you disagree. Hardly a strong counter argument for his changing the meanings of terms of art.
Furthermore, when it came to the Poythress/Tate comment that you mention, the intention was not to slander Nico. I was saying that other people should take the same approach I took to Nico’s scouting to my own scouting. If it didn’t come off like that than I apologize to Nico.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I never felt he should be banned, regardless of his comments.
However, given how soft-skinned he was too any type of criticism, I can’t say I really miss the guy, despite strong suits in certain areas.
Perhaps you can take on his mantle?
by Pucking Insane on Jun 8, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ive kinda tried but he was way more knowledgable about baseball that I am.
His knowledge of statistics and prospects exceeds mine, though I always try to learn in both areas. Somebody needs to be here to point out some of the ridiculous things that get said all the time.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm...
All it means when some of the more prolific and widely read posters leave, is that there’s room for new people to come in and share their voice and fill the void. Good blogs will always have good writers coming and going…tis the nature of the interwebs. AN still has some dandy writers, and I’m sure others are lurking out there, waiting for the right moment to impart their wisdom in electronic form. Just need to encourage them to step up.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 8, 2009 9:59 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, damn it,
so start encouraging me.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LB -- iirc, you lose "lurker" status 'round about comment 11,000, or so.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 8, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I'm quite there yet,
but I will endeavor to persevere.
…but they took my horse, and they made him surrender.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh wait. I am.
damn.
…how come nobody ever tells me to shut up?
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if you started listening when people talked to you...
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
your words.
they hit me like daggers. I feel what you’re saying and from this point forward, I will start to listen more to what you’re all sa….hey look! SHINY THINGS!!!
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shiny things
Its cute when some people use that bit… you’re not included in that group.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
aw...hugs!
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Shiny things!"...
will now be “Squirrel!!”
Ooo! Piece of candy!
by ChickenStanley on Jun 8, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
easier to squint and pass over your comments
as the mood may strike.
"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw
by One won lost won on Jun 8, 2009 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.....
{starts to speak, stops}
{looks down, kicks rocks, shoves hands in pockets}
{sigh}
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 9, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This
Step up, bitches!
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You furry little bitch.
And no, not furries like… you know… furries
GAUNTLET THROWN.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell... I'm sorry mikev
I hadn’t realized you had risen to bitch status.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shit, wait, how many posts are required to get to bitch status?
I may still just be a whore.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whores get paid
None one would pay for what you have to offer.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait.
I could get paid for this?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You?
No chance.
Ever.
No matter how much you practiced.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn.
I mean, I practice a lot
Wait what are we even talking about?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again to clarify
This post was not meant as a cheap shot at everyone still here (I’m here so why would I insult myself?), but rather to ask for those that left to reconsider, if possible, and return. Their return would create an even better AN than what we have now and possibly even what we had before. Call it AN 3.0 without the nasty bugs and glitches…
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 8, 2009 11:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I started reading some of my old stuff from 2005:
That was a fun time.
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by saint on Jun 8, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jason Windsor
and we were worried about the arby clock. (snicker)
I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?
by str8tarrow on Jun 8, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
I’m off doing my own thing. You guys know where to find me.
"Smells like summer camp!"
by Jennifer on Jun 8, 2009 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Iowa?
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's Heaven
"If Vin Mazzaro comes anywhere near me with shaving cream he’s gonna be coming away with a bloody stump" – Dallas Braden
by doctorK on Jun 8, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
{snort}
surely not?
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just check the tour schedule, right? ;)
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 8, 2009 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed.
Love ya, Nick!
"Smells like summer camp!"
by Jennifer on Jun 8, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell the random internet people that we say hi!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 8, 2009 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not here to condemn the current heads of this site and I’m not here to say that the people who do post regularly are subpar.
I would just like to say that as a proudly subpar AN contributor, I resemble this remark.
I used to post here a lot but then I got in a disagreement with Nico over just how we were supposed to write about a political/land-use issue like the A’s stadium situation without getting political about it, and I ended up disappearing for the last 2 1/2 years.
At that time I felt like, well, if they can’t dig what I’m writing then fine, I ain’t changing it because it’s the truth so f*ck ’em, and I just left. There was more than a little feeling on my part that I was contributing some pretty damn substantive content to the site, and because no good deed goes unpunished I was being treated like someone who was willfully violating the rules and had to be disciplined for it.
When I came back I resolved to keep it fun and entertaining and stick to mostly the A’s stuff that happens between the white lines and steer clear of the stadium stuff, but I still drift into that territory more than I probably should, given how passionately I feel about it all. I have no idea who PaulThomas was but as for monkeyball it’s that passion that seems to drive people past the proscribed limitations of what Blez and Nico & BBG and them want said and unsaid on here, and that seems to be the driving force behind the occassional exodus of premier writing talent on AN.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Jun 8, 2009 1:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I used to be involved (56 FanPosts, 982 comments at AN). I still check the site periodically but I’m usually relegated to Lurker status. This is because:
- Cal Golden Blogs is my favorite blog and Cal Bears football is now my my favorite sport.
- I’m tired of the Oakland A’s killing me (the SJ/Fremont moves, Mt Davis, the tarped off deck, the high player turnover, the pathetic attendance, I have no idea what “the plan” is). I drove to the airport 30 min before a Friday night home game…expecting 880 S would be a parking lot (as it was in the Bash Brother days). I only saw one car exit.
- AN’s different now, man. “Different” in that the # of members is very large and I don’t know anyone (as an Internet friends). CGB is smaller, yet large enough to feel as if you can get some decent convo going.
Like I said, I still check in a few times a week but I don’t often comment nor throw up a fanpost. I have a lot of experience playing catcher from my playing days, perhaps I could write a FanPost on the intricacies of that position? It might help explain the deep love Fosse had for Jason Kendall.
NSFW
by carp on Jun 8, 2009 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
a catcher FanPost would be worth the read.
As for AN, the more, the merrier. I like the fact that six people who commented in my Twinkie post today have less than 100 comments. And if it’s because it was a “safe” place to post, well that was the point.
Nothing against stat-laden posts at all, because I rather enjoy them, but a lot of people feel they don’t belong there.
I have made enough comments- all positive- about the old guard. But the new guard isn’t so bad. Before the season I didn’t know iglew or Joey C. or OldhamA or ElQuesoCapitan, and now I look forward to their participation.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you don't look forward to me, then.
sniff, sniff.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he's looking backward.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, if we were gay, that's how I'd see it.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That depends, I guess.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
you get the cool-looking handbag thingy. Or whatever it’s called.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
man purse.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murse
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like man purses.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a satchel!
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 8, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great. I’ll start working on it and post it in the coming days.
BTW, your historical perspective posts are one of the reasons I keep coming back to AN. Much appreciated.
NSFW
by carp on Jun 8, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey thanks
I appreciate hearing that. Look forward to your post.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Squirrel!
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 4:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
MOOSE
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice, DC!
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
I think the better way to get people (or, at least, me) to “come back” is to post interesting / original / fun things. Most people didn’t completely cut off AN, but honestly I don’t find much to hold my interest here.
I love the GoGs, and try not to miss one. Depending upon the topic, I can dig 67’s stories. Other than that, I really don’t like some of AN’s biggest voices so I simply avoid ‘em. I was invested enough in AN at the time PT was banned to try to get things to go in one direction. Instead they went in another. Whether one is better or worse is a question I have an opinion on, but that opinion doesn’t really matter. I’m just not invested any more.
Plus, “I love Beane”/“Fire Beane Now”/“Who could ever like Beane”/“I have always loved Beane” is tiresome.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Jun 8, 2009 5:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
To me,
most of the interesting stuff left with the “old guard”. I come here for the deeper analysis that a lot of the time uses statistics, however the occurances of this analysis decreases daily.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 8, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, to echo grover
step up!
If people put a little time in, it’s not impossible to do some analysis…
by ohmangoAs on Jun 8, 2009 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I don’t really get the complaint that there isn’t enough of something here. People are free to contribute things they think AN needs more of. Nobody’s preventing that.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of people
genuinely do not have the time, but there are others who just might be gun shy for some reason (well, let’s face it, we can be a little rough on noobies, at times). Hopefully they’ll read this and realize that we’d actually welcome their contributions.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the most part, true...
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I very rarely write fanposts because to know stats to the level that PT or Sal do is daunting.
I miss the analysis, because I learned. I don’t learn anything on AN anymore, I go to fangraphs or minorleague ball for that. I come here to get a little more flavor than slusser on a recap, because there isn’t the other kind of analysis here because the writers who wrote them were banned or felt shunned.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't write many fanposts because I often don't feel like I have a lot to say
I’m content for the time being to keep it to gameday threads and the occasional photo-related post. When I was asked to join the frontpage group, the photos were the main reason. I haven’t had a lot of time lately to focus on that side of things because I’ve been busy with the house and moving, but I’ve still got plans to do a lot this year around that fairly soon.
I’m not someone who gets deep into stats, analysis and all that – it’s a more casual thing for me with the occasional deeper look at something – but I generally know what I like, what I prefer and so on. Like I said before, I can be guilty of stubbornness and being too judgmental of things I don’t agree with, but it’s something for me to work on.
Everyone has their comfort zones and things they need to work on when it comes to dealing with some things here.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the photos, and wish we got to see more.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I’m hoping to cover a few minor league All-Star Games this year, which reminds me I need to start contacting people for credentials.
Part of me moving where I did will also make it much easier to cover River cats and Ports games, too.
And I probably shouldn’t have said anything about ignoring you or not. I do appreciate some of what you bring here. I know you’re a good fan.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
more photos please
always welcome.
Amongst us long-time amateurs, even seeing the “misfires” can be of interest.
"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw
by One won lost won on Jun 8, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
I tend to just get rid of the stuff that doesn’t come out, or limit how much I put up from a game (usually around a third of what I shoot, max), but that’s an interesting thought. I’ll have to see if it factors in to some things I shoot down the line. I’ve made more of an effort to get more than just all the action, such as focusing on fans or things in the dugout, for example. It’s fun to experiment with different angles as well.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any tips for those of us amateur photographers who enjoy snapping photos of our teams?
I use an Olympus E500 DSLR, with a 14-45mm and 70-300mm. I bought the 70-300mm mainly for baseball and NASCAR.
I usually just snap from my seat, but occasionally wander around. Do you have any favorite seat locations for photos? Or do you have special credentials that get you the sweet spots? :)
I’ve also messed around with getting more than the game action. I’d really like to get the action of the dugout when the walkoff run is scored. I’ve never been able to get it up close with my new lens, only from far away with my 40-150mm lens, which wasn’t very exciting.
I thought about putting up a gallery like you have, but I never really got around to doing it (or at least doing it well). I should make it my mission this year and put up some of my shots.
by LoneStranger on Jun 9, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get to shoot from next to the dugouts and roam as I want, which is very nice
But some of the angles I enjoy shooting from are lined up exactly with the first or third baselines, as low as I can get. I also like shooting from behind the plate for pitcher pics and some infield stuff.
I was using a 70-300mm lens before, but it only got down to about f4.5 (and more like f5.6 when I’m zoomed in more) but now I have one that goes to 200mm down to the f2.3 range or whatever it is. That makes it much easier to get working night shots and is really going to broaden the number of games I can do. I don’t have to just do day games any more.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 9, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but do you have any angles of the grassy knoll?
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 9, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on what ballpark I'm shooting in ;-)
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 9, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quite frankly,
I dunno if I’m qualified to give the type of material that I’m looking for. That’s why I’m looking for it after all.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 8, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try sometimes?
If you’re not, I’m sure someone will tell you. ;-)
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is very true.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 9, 2009 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, I've lost track of how many times...
…I’ve been told to think less and just show the pictures, or variations of that. I’ve been going to games and following baseball for over 20 years, so it’s not like I’m just a noob who knows how to get a good picture but doesn’t understand anything about the sport. :-)
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just like Bill James used to be treated...
Remember, friends, hundreds of years from now, Bill James will be a religious figure.
No, I’m not even kidding.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 9, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That may be, though I wouldn't compare myself to Bill James
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 9, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
although you may not be the world's great baseball philosopher poet,
you take darn fine pictures.
Huzzah!
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 13, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to post here all the time
under the name “cirquegirl(Insert a number here)”. I’m not really sure what happened…I started watching the Rockies a little more, which was much more convenient due to my geographic location, and then life got in the way. I went to college this year, which takes up a fair amount of time…
I don’t really post on blogs anymore, anyway, I mostly just read them.
by Squeaky on Jun 8, 2009 5:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
cirquegirl!
All right.
Cirquegirl > reztips
by Brian in 317 on Jun 8, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cirquegirl! glad to see you!!!!
how’s school going?
There's no crying in baseball!
by gigglingone on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic. :)
I’m at Columbia, and I love it. Doing well in the city and learning a ton…majoring in dance and political science…if I can swing it with all the credits. :)
by Squeaky on Jun 9, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant combination.
Because dancing faster than the voting population is Politico Job One.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 9, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To those that are here I say hello
to those that are gone I say come back when you are ready and we’ll welcome you with open arms. The statheads are great for this site but those who have a life other than mathematics shouldn’t feel inferior because they love the A’s too.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 8, 2009 7:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
FREE KRAUT
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Jun 8, 2009 7:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
HI Xbox!
“I don’t wanna look like a freak or anything—just give me the mumu.”
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 8, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not really part of the old guard
But I lurked pretty much from the start of AN and posted quite a bit for a while after registering a couple of years ago. I rarely post anymore, but I lurk and read any minors related posts and a few select other posts that I think might be interesting.
Why don’t I post anymore? It’s a combination of a lot of things, but BobbyCrosbysGirl pretty much encapsulated my thoughts when she said, “I am just more selective of how I spend my limited amount of time.”
With limited time, I just don’t feel like having to get in some sort of flame war whenever something interesting or controversial is discussed, and I am not interested in experiencing online the day-to-day highs and lows that get expressed on here depending on how the team is doing at a particular point in time. I get enough of that from fellow A’s fans that I interact with everyday; I don’t need to come to AN for that.
I doubt that I will ever post regularly on AN again, but I will probably always lurk and occasionally post.
by BlameChannel53 on Jun 8, 2009 8:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
lurker since the mulder trade
ever since I got wind of AN thru some ref to AN after the Mulder trade, I’ve been lurking. I think even after I joined, I still lurked.
just a bunch of fellow fans, analyzing drama quantized thru stats. cool site. as long as it’s that, I’ll still be around. I also like the format of the threads, etc. Too many stupid blog sites on the ‘net (I’m talking you – Battlestar Galactica/SciFi.com) have some lame thread architecture.
by rollierollieOxenfree on Jun 8, 2009 10:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, goody - a meta thread
I started writing a long analysis about this, and have thought better of it.
Here’s my short version:
It’s a big Internet. People can go where they feel most comfortable – or more than one place. Everyone needs to get over the PaulThomas thing, whether they think it was his just desserts or a kangaroo court. People in debates over various statistics and their significance should take care to treat each other with more respect, as this is a subject almost as touchy as politics. Free Kraut, which has a lot of good writers and old friends, would be better if it didn’t often feel like an anti-AN site.
Most importantly, everyone here needs to keep a sense of humor and perspective. AN, in the end, is a Web site for people of all sorts who like a certain professional baseball team. That’s what it has always been, even in its early days. It’s just bigger now.
by bear88 on Jun 8, 2009 10:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The more A's fan sites the better.
Nothing wrong if people want to start more of them. I do miss the old posters. There were some really creative folks in that group…and I miss PT too. He was a smart guy …i enjoyed reading his take on things. I am particularly sorry that so many are so bitter…lighten up folks.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 8, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason it's hard for me to get over the PT thing
is the amount the site has changed. I came to AN because it was different, and IMO very accurate. It told much more about the A’s than W-L, and brought a variety of different perspectives, highlighted by its inclination to statistics. I love what Marquez brings to the site, as well as Nico’s wit. However, things are so different/have been so different from the PT fallout. There is little baseball substance to this site anymore IMO.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 8, 2009 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I was looking forward to seeing how PT would change as he got older...
his loss to the site feels like losing a book that I was in the middle of. I want to know how it turns out.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 8, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually a good point.
Perhaps he felt he needed more than the 30 days to evaluate things, and if so, all the better. Of course, you can say I am being naive.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping he was busy with finals and that he'd be back.
You may be naive but I am always an optimist. I think I’d rather be naive. Paul was a cool kid but I also miss guys like FSU. I did write to FSU…I miss his writing greatly. I loved his creativity…just in awe of it really.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 8, 2009 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FSU > 74mk > monkeyball > PT > sal
That’s my ranking of the fab five who left (with andeux coming off the bench as the sixth man). Biased towards literary prowess and creative talent, I guess. Or just personality, to put it simply. So I guess that makes FSU Webber, 74mk Jalen Rose, monkeyball Juwan Howard, and PT and sal the two guys I don’t remember, heh…so it’s not the best comparison. And freekraut is like a classic band that’s a shell of its former self…hey, Webber, Rose, and Howard all declined horribly once they got their $10+ mil/year NBA contracts. But in their case, well, preaching to the choir can get pretty boring. monkeyball in particular always struck me as incredibly dependent on the inspiration that the AN audience provided. The rest, not so much, but still to an extent. Alright, that’s all I’ve got
by Cutthemullet on Jun 9, 2009 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy King and Ray Somebody were the others
by jasonthea on Jun 9, 2009 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Livingston?
alright, I guess now I have to search it…there goes my pride in being the laziest Internet search engine user out there.
by Cutthemullet on Jun 9, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Jackson
“As high school players all five members of the Fab Five were rated in the top 100 of high school prospects in 1991. Chris Webber was ranked #1, Juwan Howard was ranked #3, Jalen Rose was ranked #6, Jimmy King was ranked #9, and Ray Jackson was ranked #84. All but Jackson participated in the McDonald’s All American game in 1991.”
Yeah, Jackson was the one to forget…though I don’t know where Livingston came from
by Cutthemullet on Jun 9, 2009 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
And this topic, tired as it has become, is practically politics in its own right.
People come here for many, many different reasons; hell I often come here just to get away from the real people in my life (oops, that’s not to say that I have not enjoyed personal interactions with AN’ers; I just happen to come from a very large family).
Thing is, AN is slowly making its way back. You can say we’re rebuilding. And even in that regard, maybe some bad choices will be made- I assure you as I sit here that there is a large amount of people who scoffed at the idea of me as a front page writer. Whatev. Some people didn’t care for poetic interludes. Fine.
Point is, who is really right in saying what it is that makes AN great? Why can’t we appreciate it for what it is, marvel at its evolution, and accept the fact that it will never ever please everyone?
It’s just gotten to the point where I am tired of hearing what this place isn’t rather than try to enjoy what it is. It’s never going to be perfect. Never.
And I agree that the FK site would be so much better were it not so anti-AN; especially when AN continues to break out in song- seemingly on a monthly basis- of how those people are missed.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are many wonderful fans on this site.
Your work and Nico’s and the rest of the current gangs are so well-appreciated. Noone can take anything away from you guys…but I do think it’s ok to express regrets, and to let people know that we miss them. So many of the old guard spent hours crafting articles for the site and they did add much to the site.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 8, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree at all.
But it always turns into a rehashing of sorts. Yeah it’s totally ok to long for the old guard or old friends, and their contributions can never be denied. People do it in game threads all the time. I just don’t see the need to do so in a long drawn out post. They are gone. And they’re not coming back. And it’s unfair for AN to have to constantly explain why they are gone.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love ya but I disagree with you.
This was a big deal…to so many and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a lengthy discussion…and I don’t think it’s true that they are all gone permanently. I think many are but not all. It’s not a good thing to try to squelch people when they want to express their feelings about the loss of people they have enjoyed reading or even met . Some of the people felt like friends.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 8, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's why you are one of my faves
You have no problem telling it like it is – as it should be.
And stating your case as you have, you are right. Maybe it’s easier for me to “move on” because the connection wasn’t nearly as long. (I can tell you that the core group that we are talking about was very much a reason for logging on each day, if only for the laughs).
However, I will stand by my concern that while it is totally ok to miss someone and express it so, it so often leads to an unecessary debate. I know that a lot of them are still here, and I’d like to see them post more often: Jennifer, Poppy. Dogfather, to name a few.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point.
And TY, and of course, you know that you have been a favorite of mine from the start. I love the stories from our AN historian.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 9, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For me the PT banning was symbolicly
people like Nico and Flashfire saying that my reason for coming to AN wasn’t valid and thats one of the reasons it was so disappointing. I don’t have the comments that the so called veterans have mostly because I lurked for years, but I loved this site and have spent what my mother considers an unhealthy amount of time here for years. Being told you aren’t welcome is hard to take, and one of the reasons I started commenting a lot more this season, because Im obstinate.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What did I say about your reason for coming to AN not being valid?
Seriously. I don’t know.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 8, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not litterally
metophorically.
I came to AN initially because I wanted more A’s related trade rumors ( Here that Billy? I will follow the team more if you leake more rumors like who you might draft. :-P) But I staid because of the intense debates that PT was so often the center of. His tone was requisite for a lot of that.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PT being banned was not about his expetise in stats.
It was about his tone. His TONE violated the system that Blez set up. As for you keep posting and help fill the stat guy void. There are still stat guys here on the site…even though we are missing some good ones. People are bound to argue…the arguments and clash of personalities can be quite entertaining sometimes.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 8, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To debate stats vigorously I do think you need to push the envelope on tone as PT did.
But I did 6 years of competitive debate in HS and college so my understanding of what debate tone is socially acceptable can differ from less confrontational people.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 9, 2009 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could have been just as effective without his demeaning tone.
His writing was so clear even when he was wrong he seemed right.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 9, 2009 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
people that are less confrontational will stay out of the way.
"A few of the guests, who had the misfortune of being too near the windows, were seized and feasted upon at once.""--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 9, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?
by str8tarrow on Jun 8, 2009 10:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well put
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 8, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ps
that’s not supposed to be snarky at all, just a little joke.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 8, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would've worked on the old version!
I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?
by str8tarrow on Jun 8, 2009 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsUksn56EPA
I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?
by str8tarrow on Jun 8, 2009 11:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ebb and Flow
AN continues to be the Heart and Soul of Oakland A’s Baseball Blogs. That is all.
by Colorado Fan on Jun 8, 2009 11:18 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Can I be the soul?
It just sounds so cool, and I’d like to have that on my resume.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 8, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll turn this one green
with two recs before my upcoming rec, I’m pretty sure I have that power
by Cutthemullet on Jun 9, 2009 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright, nice, that power was mine
I’m going to be on the lookout for any posts with two recs now…what a rush
by Cutthemullet on Jun 9, 2009 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't live in the past
I’ve lurked here for a long time, and I enjoy AN as a supplement to my other A’s reading. But honestly, the massive amounts of BS generated by a few of the now-departed posters has kept me from ever becoming a die-hard AN reader (much less a significant contributor). Their departure is a great relief, and has improved the overall quality of AN.
To those who continue to fight old battles about former ANers, please just stop. There’s nothing less interesting than rehashing those details over and over again. Move on to something constructive. If AN focuses on quality content/commentary without vitriol and baiting, AN will be better than ever. If old posters want to re-join on those terms great. If not, then they won’t be missed.
by andyinfremont on Jun 9, 2009 1:08 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
given the content of your post and your location
There will be backlash here…the only way it could be more severe would be if your handle was andyinfremontwithavacationhomeinsanjose
by Cutthemullet on Jun 9, 2009 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
No backlash it seems; maybe because the thread is winding down. And I was using this handle well before the A’s considered moving to Fremont.
by andyinfremont on Jun 9, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
stats
Although I was able to offer very little to the stat threads, I always came away with something. AN changed the way I watched baseball. Not a lot, but enough.
Where it started to become a turn-off for me was when a debate would turn into an exercise in penis size comparison. And that was quickly becoming the norm.
The turn-off for others was when “game-thread speak” started to seep into DLD’s, and then into other places where it was normally taboo. That has pretty much gone away, except for game threads, and the occasional DLD, and AN is better for it.
I'm here to talk about the past.
by 67MARQUEZ on Jun 9, 2009 7:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Can AN open a chapter -- with an elephant on top of the crest?
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 9, 2009 8:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No... SWEDES.
It’s gotta be Swedes.
Prithee, be not perturbed by yon third bagger.
by Poppy on Jun 10, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ja.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 10, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This pic was posted to help in locating those long-lost Members.
Look lively, boys!
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 11, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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