Bring Cardenas To The Big Club? - Perhaps short-sighted, but Cardenas > Crosby

by ChadGod on Jun 8, 2009 12:19 AM PDT Comment 37 comments

Seriously A's fans. Just how long are we going to be content with Bobby Crosby in the lineup? This man has proven his inability to hit one too many times for even the most optimistic Crosby fans and his 3B defense has certainly improved, but he is no gem out there.

Could Adrian Cardenas match Crosby's production (that word just doesn't feel right) right now? Its starting to look that way.

Cardenas has only seen a little time at AAA, but there are plenty of situations in which teams will callup players from AA to the majors to at least get their feet wet and/or to plug a short-term hole. I know I'm just a little giddy thinking about the A's actually being okay lately, but getting 3 hits per ball game just isn't going to get it done all the time. If our pitching really continues to gel like this we would need to get serious about improving our offense right now.

So, I think its time they moved Cardenas to 3B at Midland. That way if Cardenas is still hot say a month from now, the A's are contending, and also barring that Crosby should turn into Garciaparra we can at least get a possible upgrade for the Crosby horror show.

After struggling in AAA and being demoted to Midland, Cardenas has been sizzling as most of you are aware:

.385/.459/.556 over 34 games, having drawn 20 walks and only struck-out 19 times. He is really on fire so far in June.

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Cardenas has a tendancy to struggle a lot after a promotion.

He does best where he starts the year. I do NOT think it is a good idea to promote him to the big league club this year, and if you are going to convert him to 3B, you would not put him at 3B in Midland, you would promote him to Sacramento and play him at 3B there.

Still, Cardenas is a great prospect at 2B, but not quite so at 3B. Also, if you want to get Crosby out of the lineup, one way to do it would be to promote a First Baseman. Unfortunetly, the only one available atm in AAA that is MLB quality is Daric Barton. The good news is that Barton has been on fire recently, so he might be ready for the big leagues.

If in the unlikely event Cardenas was called up to the big league club, I would prefer to keep Cardenas at 2nd Base and shift Adam Kennedy over to 3rd Base.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on Jun 8, 2009 12:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

A few hours ago I would have totally agreed with this, especially

the first and last paragraphs. But then I read the Billy Beane interview that marcoscutaro posted in a fanshot earlier:

Cohn: Do you have players in your minor-league system who can come up? Are you confident in them?

Beane: We have a good system. It’s just now starting to mature. We’ve got some position players. One of the kids we got in the Blanton deal last year along with Outman, Adrian Cardenas is hitting .386. He’s an infielder, second baseman. There may be a time we’ll consider him at third because he’s such a good hitter with a real good throwing arm. And Jamile Weeks so we do have some kids coming.

First of all, Beane rarely discusses which prospects are due for promotions, or who his favorites are, and when he does he usually just lists a bunch of mostly inane non-prospects, like Justin Sellers, as if to say “nice try.” So I think this indicates that the A’s are planning on fast-tracking Weeks (he is a number one draft after all, and now that he’s healthy he’s demolishing Cal League pitching). It also provides insight as to what Billy is thinking with Weeks and Cardenas position-wise, and suggests (considering the nature of the question) that they could both be in Oakland this year – maybe September, maybe before.

I think your point about Cardenas struggling to adjust after promotions is a good one, and because he’s still so young I think its worth taking into consideration. But perhaps Beane figures that if Cardenas is gonna struggle, may as well let him get his growing pains out of the way with the big club, kinda like Tejada.

by scromulus on Jun 8, 2009 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then again, Beane could just be listing his two players

with the highest batting averages, as if to say, “Fuck you, Cohn Zohn.”

by scromulus on Jun 8, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol...

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jun 8, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

That was one of the more candid interviews of Beane that I’ve read, even more so than the ones from Blez. Anyway, I don’t think he means those guys are necessarily in line for a promotion this year, just that they are on the right track. I could see if Cardenas goes to AAA and rakes for a while, maybe he gets a call up in Sept. Weeks? No way. The guy just recovered from an injury and is still in high A. I’d be surprised if we saw him in 2010 for that matter. Interesting article though, especially the bit about Holliday

by chipper1001 on Jun 8, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anderson and Cahill more-or-less went from high A to MLB.

I’m not suggesting Weeks will make the jump direct by any means, but he’s older than those two, and he was drafted higher. I would expect the A’s to promote Weeks every 100 ABs or so as long as he continues to show no signs of struggling. Wherever he hits a wall is probably where he’ll spend the rest of the season.

I definitely thought it was a good Beane interview – he’s pretty much at an all time low as a GM, so maybe he feels like he needs to defend himself or at least offer up some new answers. With regard to Holliday, Billy certainly likes his compensation picks. He’s gotten a lot of good players this way in the past, and he’s probably not too happy that he never got anything for Stewart, Piazza, Thomas, and Embree. This year the Angels have five picks between 24 and 48. Even though the A’s go first, I would trade our picks for their’s in a heartbeat.

by scromulus on Jun 8, 2009 2:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And we saw how C+A have worked out

Cahill: 6.11 TRA 5.19 FIP
Anderson 4.88 TRA 5.31 FIP

Both have shown some promise but Cahill and Anderson would very likely have benefited from more AAA. Promoting every 100 ABs is very rushed. Jemile Weeks is 22. AA should be as high as he goes this season. Let him spend half a season in A+ before a promotion.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jun 8, 2009 2:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is all very true.

I guess I have a hard time discerning whether Weeks is terribly overrated (drafted too high, doesn’t have much power) or unfairly underrated (he isn’t Brett Wallace and just because he was an over draft doesn’t mean he sucks).

I would always rather err on the side of not rushing prospects, and wait for them to put up “show me” type numbers at AAA, and after Ellis comes back, the A’s hopefully won’t be wanting for IFers. But I still think Weeks could move much quicker than your average college draft pick, and if he goes on a season long tear (not likely), I think its possible he could get a look in September (perhaps at the expense of monsignors Hannahan/Petit).

by scromulus on Jun 8, 2009 3:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like Geren will be here for a while (shocker).

Cohn: Is Bob Geren the manager for this team going forward?

Beane: Until a manager is given players that are good enough to consistently win it’s hard to hold them responsible. Ultimately that’s my responsibility – to give him good players. Quite frankly for Bob we haven’t done that. The idea that we can slash the payroll, trade the best players and expect him to perform at an ALCS level is not completely fair. We had a team in spring training but he’s never really had that team. He and the staff will be more responsible when we feel like we’ve given him players or he has players in the field that are good enough to win.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 8, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather have Crosby around than have one of Barton/Cunningham on the bench.

Problem is then that with Giambi and Cust starting almost every day, there is no way both Barton and Cunningham will get full time PT. If Barton comes up, Cunningham will have to go back to AAA. They shouldn’t both be on the 25-man unless Holliday is traded or one of Giambi/Cust misses a considerable amount of time.

"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden

by Blicks on Jun 8, 2009 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I agree with this as Adam, “Big Slick” Kennedy has been taking balls at 3B for the last week or so to be ready when Ellis comes back. Cardenas should get a chance to succeed at AAA before you even think of bringing him up to the big club.

a ground rule double followed by three unproductive outs, sounds like my sex life - dayzd toe

by adragon on Jun 8, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jun 8, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adam Kennedy at 3rd

When Ellis comes back, it’s pretty obvious Kennedy will be shifted over to third base. If Nomar ever does get healthy, he’ll wind up switching off with Giambi at 1B.

by richwol1 on Jun 8, 2009 1:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy

According to his card at Baseball Prospectus, Kennedy has never played a game at third base and only played one game at short.

by rageon on Jun 8, 2009 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Before the beginning of this season; same applied to Crosby...

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jun 8, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Crosby played SS.

That Kennedy has almost never played the left side of the infield suggests that, like Ellis, he probably doesn’t have the arm for it. Its worth a shot given the options, but it could get ugly.

by scromulus on Jun 8, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm hoping for Marco Scutaro part II... (fingers crossed)

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jun 8, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy's been taking grounders at 3B

in anticipation for Ellis’s return

"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott

by scatterbrian on Jun 8, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely not

Rushing 21 year old prospects = bad idea

It would be nice to keep the core of the Midland offense together (Cardenas, Carter, Brown, Donaldson). Maybe a midseason AAA callup and up in mid 2010 given performance? Unfortunately looks like Brown is injured again. It’s really derailing what could be a breakout season.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jun 8, 2009 2:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Why rush them at this point?

by Streams Of Whiskey on Jun 8, 2009 3:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You would rush a player

if, and only if:

1) you were in contention

2) the player rushing is an upgrade

3) that upgrade significantly improves your chances, and

4) the risk to the future of the club (and player) is outweighed by the upgrade

You seem to be arguing #2. You may be implying #1 and #3. You shouldn’t. If the A’s get to 4 out by the break, Crosby continues to play AND suck, and someone looks good as a replacement, then it’d be worth considering. But not until then.

Do you know the way to San Jose?

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 8, 2009 6:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's take these one at a time

The A’s are in last place. Just a few days ago, they had the worst record in the league.

The proposal would take Cardenas, a promising prospect who is doing well in AA ball, and have him switch positions AND be promoted to the big leagues mid-season when he hasn’t even established he can hit in AAA.

There’s no reason to think such a scheme would work, or that it would be a good idea for the player or the team’s future.

by bear88 on Jun 8, 2009 8:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

A voice of reason.

Thank you.

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Jun 8, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly they only have a 5% chance of making the playoffs

and have already pissed away lots of value in two 28 year old seasons of Cahill and Anderson, why waste Cardenas’ service time too!

In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK

by designatedforassignment on Jun 8, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is that number still 5%?

I’d think a six-game winning streak would tick it back up a bit.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 8, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Geren just needs to announce that Crosby has won the postion fulltime

and commit to the former R.O.Y. and instill that fearsome right-handed slugging bat!!

Then after the moves pays extremely large dividends we can re-sign Croz to a 10 year deal so that he remains an Athletic for life…

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jun 8, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying that Crosby is this team's Rich Aurilia?

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on Jun 8, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly...or...(not exactly)

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on Jun 8, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Croz deserves an ownership stake,

with a clause that he can play for the A’s as long as he likes. Beane needs to keep some SoCal college kids around for when he wants to eat a burrito, go skateboarding, or listen to punk rock.

by scromulus on Jun 8, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Classic! "...eat a burrito..."

I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.

by franks a lot on Jun 8, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a SoCal college kid

there is absolutely nothing better than eating a burrito.

by SBravo53 on Jun 8, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a NorCal 30 year old (fuck!)

I agree. Burritos are quite possibly the most perfect food ever.

Except maybe brunettes.

"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."

by mikev on Jun 8, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the "no to Cardenas" sentiments.

It’s just too early to make it work. He needs to stay at second. Now, if you want to talk about trading Mark Ellis in the offseason because Cardenas got promoted to AAA and tore it up, I’d be listening.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 8, 2009 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If Ellis is at 2B, I wouldn't mind Cardenas at SS.

Ellis is freaking amazing defensively, as we all know.

Cardenas should have a plus bat for SS albeit questionable defense.

As long as the 3B isn’t some stone glove guy, of course.

"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden

by Blicks on Jun 8, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm doubting he has the range for short

Otherwise, he would be there already.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 8, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Cardenas could pull off an average SS

Maybe he’d be -5 defensively. If he could hit, it’s still a lot better than any other 2010 SS options. Tejada’s a FA of course and I do love me some Miggy but Cardenas could probably pull off his type of defense (and probably his level of offense).

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jun 8, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he could

But if that’s the case, I ask again why he isn’t already playing there. Also, if he’s -5 defensively now, how long could he reasonably be expected to keep that up?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jun 9, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs