Holliday to Cards?...Wallace
by ryanmoser on Jun 6, 2009 8:41 AM PDT
112 comments
As reported by Buster Olney....
- Billy Beane will soon have to make a decision about whether or not he should trade Matt Holliday, because other teams will start inquiring soon.
- Olney speculates that the Cardinals could be interested in Holliday, which would satisfyTony LaRussa's desire for a big bat. He also says that Cards' prospect Brett Wallace would be a good fit for Oakland, but that seems like a hefty price for just three or four months of Holliday. (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/)
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Ohh please let it be true.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jun 6, 2009 8:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ummm....
OK!!!!
concocting something witty....check back frequently
by OptimistPrime on Jun 6, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For what its worth, Wallace is struggling in AAA right now.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 9:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but considering he was drafted less than a year ago AAA struggles ain't too bad
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 6, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, was just pointing it out though.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rushed
Looking at his numbers, I don’t understand why he has been pushed so quickly. In AA he was batting .280 with 5 HR and 5 2B. I think that if Glaus was healthy this year, he would have spent most of the season in AA.
by asyouwish33 on Jun 6, 2009 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AN censorship
In 2 minutes this morning non-obscene Holliday-Chavez post attracted 6 harmless responses then post was removed for unknown reason. People had interest.
by BlueMoon on Jun 6, 2009 9:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My guess
Probably because it was entirely fictional.
by SeanR on Jun 6, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I removed it and am not happy about that post
(it said that Chavez was going to give up his salary so the A’s could re-sign Holliday, and that a press release from the A’s about this was forthcoming).
People come to AN for news and for someone to publish something unsubstantiated, and I assume fictional, as if it were true is entirely inappropriate. You call it “censorship,” but I call it running a blog responsibly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the link if folks want to see what was taken down
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a link to a removed fanpost?
Does anyone else see the irony in that?
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
such a good spot for a rick roll
They're called RUNS for a reason.
by connie mack on Jun 6, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The link
does not work anyway
"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!
by Shippee33 on Jun 6, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong link
Nico accidentally pasted in the link to the “How many HRs has Giambi hit” story.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jun 6, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nico, could you repost the link...
or were you going for ironic/sarcastic and I totally fell for the joke? I’m curious to see what BlueMoon said and how it differed from my suggestion from last week.
Please and thank you.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 6, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I readi it
It basically said that Chavy was going to waive all or a large portion of his salary (I think it said 10 million) so the A’s could get a big hitter. No sources were cited, though it did say an announcement was coming. I posted something about April fools.
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jun 6, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
The only way that could legally happen per the Labor Agreement would be for Chavez to:
A) Retire and get some sort of buy-out from the A’s
B) Re-negotiate his contract to add some kind of extension while lowering the annual amount due
The consensus is Chavez just can’t “waive” his salary based on the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 6, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention...
…nobody has ever come up with a believable reason why Chavez would walk away from such a large chunk of money. Yeah, I think he’s a nice guy too, but let’s get real… he’s not an idiot.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
by UncleLeo on Jun 6, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One reason Chavez might want to retire
is concern that continuing to play increases the chance of a really serious life-changing injury to his back.
Although the contract is guaranteed, in order to get paid he still has to show up and attempt to play. Either that or have the A’s cut him from the roster altogether. Chavez doesn’t want to give up the money, so he doesn’t want to retire; the A’s don’t want to cut him any sooner than they have to. Sure, he can keep going back on the 60-day DL every time he re-injures himself, but each time he has to come back out and try again, which is a risk.
Whether his back situation gets him off the hook depends on the wording of the contract, Chavez’s insurance policy (if any), the team’s insurance policy (if any), and the exact medical diagnosis. It could be that the lawyers are looking over all of that right now, trying to reach an agreement. And if there’s any basis to the rumor BlueMoon heard, that might be it.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jun 7, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see that.
Just about the only scenario, I think. If it comes down to maybe being effectively paralyzed (trying not to get too hyperbolic) then yeah, I could see that.
Other than that, though, I just have a hard time seeing him walk away from the money. Barring the aforementioned worst-case scenario, I wouldn’t.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
by UncleLeo on Jun 7, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I buy that
Chavez doesn’t really even have to put up a strong trial. If he’s in major physical pain already, no one’s going to ask him to try baseball activities. He’s just going to be labeled injured and move on. The effort needed really is very limited.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jun 7, 2009 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I really did think I had linked it
I didn’t “delete” the fanpost, I “hid” it, which makes it retrievable. I don’t mind someone reading it in this thread knowing it’s not serious, but I very much mind it being published as fact to a wide audience that may or may not take it seriously.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Link.
BlueMoon — This is how we roll.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 6, 2009 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew it was a rick roll and i still clicked it because i love that song.
Anyone else love rick astley? It doesn’t get any better than when he sings “Don’t say goodbye”
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jun 6, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe it or not, my 8th grade class loves
“Never Gonna Let You Down” – it is kind of the class’ official song, and one they sung for seniors at a local Assisted Living center on a recent Community Service trip. The seniors looked suitably bewildered, but I attribute that mostly to the ginormous doses of methodone that is in their daily diet.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2009 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame Connie.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 6, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
unique source
I can’t give details of my source, but I now realize iut’s not appropriate for me to share inside information in a semi-public forum like AN. Chavez is a good man and will do the right thing.
by BlueMoon on Jun 6, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you wrote the post in a way
that clearly stated this is something you heard from an inside source whose identity you’re not allowed to share, then I don’t think there would have been any reason for it to be removed.
From Nico’s description, it sounds like the issue was it was presented as established news without proper disclosure. No need to pout about it. If you’ve got a story, just write it appropriately.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jun 6, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not pouting . . .
I can see Nico has the best interests of the blog in mind. However, I thought the subject was pretty interesting. I’ll try to be more careful in how I word posts in the future.
by BlueMoon on Jun 6, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
I’ll bet Nico (or another mod) would work with you, too, if you wanted to email and ask for suggestions on what’s appropriate and what’s not.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jun 6, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, if it's true then I don't have the issue with it I thought I had
(though I can’t, as a moderator, know whose “secret inside sources” are accurate and which are bogus). But it doesn’t sound plausible to me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The link seems to work for me
But anyway, the fanpost was titled “Chavez to forfeit salary for Holliday” and BlueMoon’s post read:
“Word around the A’s front office is chronically-injured good guy Eric Chavez feels guilty about stealing millions of dollars from the A’s the past two years. He is offering to play (if physically able) for the minimum the next two years if Oakland will spend his money signing Matt Holliday to an extention. Chavez is quoted as saying that the minimum salary will take a lot of pressure off him to produce like a $10million player. An official press release will be published once the details are ironed out.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Players Association would allow it.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I cant see that happening. Ever.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jun 6, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's because you're admin
It’s hidden from all else.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jun 6, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so special.
Does this mean no one else sees the dancing ladies and sugar plums and magical fairies along the border of the front page?
Wait, never mind. Apparently I’m quite whacked out on ’shrooms tonight.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2009 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
unique source
Call it a rumor but not a unique source because most of the time they turn out not to be true. It also not fair to Chavez because he will be blamed for not giving up salary for the team. The A’s can try to extend his contract but being a Boras agent Holliday will not sign until after being a free agent that is a given. It might be good PR for the A’s and chavez but Holliday is not signing.
by Arcman on Jun 6, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Inside information?
Have you been smoking cigars and sharing root beers with Billy Beane again?
a.k.a. Rocktopus
by LongLiveLangerhans on Jun 6, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hanging with Beane
Went to a green day concert with him and had a few beers. It was fun telling geren to run up stairs and get us cold beer and some nachos while your at it. Boy that Geren runs fast for a old guy. Just kidding…..
by Arcman on Jun 6, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice work!
Let’s keep it on the lowdown.
by BlueMoon on Jun 6, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't his defense at 3B not so good?
I hear that the Cardinals were trying to push him to play 3B because the only other position he could play would be 1B and that is obviously covered for the Cards. Will his defense really hold up at 3B for us? Because we really don’t need another 1B prospect when we have such glaring holes at 3B and SS.
by Zabat on Jun 6, 2009 9:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's because of his body type.
Eventually he’s gonna get bigger and he won’t be able to hang at third anymore, but it seems as if the common wisdom on him is that he’ll be able to play 3B for at least the next couple seasons.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 6, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope we can swing a deal with the Cardinals
Of the teams that might have an interest in Holliday, I like the Cardinals minor leage system the best. Ideally the A’s would try to work a deal involving Wallace but I don’t think the Cardinals would part with him for a rental player. Even if we can’t get Wallace I think you could build a pretty good package centered around Daryl Jones.
If the A’s could get something like Jones/Jason Motte/Allen Craig I think that would be pretty good return for Holliday.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We have no use for Jason Motte
Demel Benacka H-Rod etc etc etc are all at our disposal if we want a hard fastball with shaky control.
by SeanR on Jun 6, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just figure you can never have enough power arms in the pen
Relievers are notoriously inconsistent from year to year and getting a guy like Motte who has legitimate closer potential and is still in his first year, making him cheap and controllable, can only help the A’s bullpen. We don’t know that H-Rod or Demel will be successful, although I like their chances, but the more arms we have who are cheap increases the chances of a successfull bullpen.
Also, Benacka was an indy league pick up who is already pretty old so I wouldn’t count on him making an impact at the major league level.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A's already have a lot of those types of guys though.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Daryl Jones pretty good? Haven't heard much about him..
????
by ryanmoser on Jun 6, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had a breakout season last year and is continuing to hit well this year
in ‘08 with 87 games at A+ ball and 36 at AA he put up a combined line of .316/.403/.483 and through 48 games at AA this year he is hitting .319/.411/.443. In the off-season top 10’s BA listed Jones as the best athlete and fastest base runner in the Cardinals orginization and this was when Rasmus was still considered a prospect. Although the fact that Jones has been relegated to LF and has rather pedestrian SB numbers make me question the BA ranking.
He probably won’t develop the power you would normally want from a corner OF but he has shown the ability to hit with a pretty good average and take a walk. I could see him as a Shannon Stewart type player who was pretty useful in his prime.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 relievers and a fringe 3B prospect?
pass
by DeJay on Jun 7, 2009 3:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh
That’s a left fielder, a reliever, and a fringe 3B prospect.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 7, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last time we delt with the cards
It seemed to work out very well for us… Too bad Barton has not seemed to pan out as of yet. But Calero was a stud in 05 and 06 and Danny Haren turned out to be an ace, so at least we have a good track record of dealing with St. Louis.
"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!
by Shippee33 on Jun 6, 2009 9:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Haren trade was just revenge for the Mark McGwire trade.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just think if we had not traded mulder
we wouldnt have had haren for 2 very good seasons, we would not have gotten anderson,carter or cunningham, or holliday for that fact either..
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
by 9Custs on Jun 6, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the A's are trading Holliday to the Cards,
they should include OCab as well. He can play SS or 2b according to the Cards needs. It can also help convince the Cards to part with Wallace. The A’s have a lot of leverage though. And before the A’s say Teix only netted Kotchman, teams within 5 games of playoffs right now in search of OF bat: TOR, DET, MIN, TEX, LAA, NYM, STL, CIN. SF, KC and ATL just miss the cut. TB could use a RF. Instead of 2-3 suitors vying for Teix, there are 8-12 suitors vying for Holliday. Then the A’s could throw on Cabrera on top (who before this year’s shortcomings was seen as a 2-3 win player due to defense), a quality second piece who the Braves weren’t offering. Holliday should get more than Teix fetched (in 2008).
The A’s should be positive Wallace is the most they can get before they deal.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jun 6, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The market for Holliday should be hotter than the one for Tex last year
Especially if Holliday keeps hitting like he has the last month.
But don’t forget that the Pirates set a benchmark by trading Nate McLouth and his very team friendly contract for a meh package of Braves prospects. I realize that at anywhere near his peak value Holliday is better than McLouth but the former Pirate is under contract for $11 million in 2010 and 2011, with a team controlled option for 2012 that includes a measly $1.25 million buy-out. The starting price for even a 3 month rental (instead of the normal 2 months) of Holliday has been lowered bue to the Pittsburgh/Atlanta deal.
I’m not saying Beane can’t hit the motherload for Holliday, just he’ll have a longer road to get there than he had a week ago.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 6, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tex
Why would Holliday fetch more than Tex? I am pretty sure that most GMs understand that if you put both hitters in a neutral environment that Texiera is likely the better hitter. Am I missing something?
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jun 7, 2009 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey KBR
You can take your rationality, and shove it.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on Jun 7, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Hey Hero,
Are you still upset about the deal I burned you on in our keeper league? Or are you more upset about how I am dominating you in the standings???!!!
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
-Jonathan Swift
by King Billy Royal on Jun 7, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that Cabrera or Crosby have any value right now
so it would not make that much sense to package one of them with Holliday if it would simply end up hurting the package.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
getting rid of Crosby is significantly improving the deal!
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jun 6, 2009 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is great the cards are interested...its only going to boost his value in a trade frenzy..
All those teams that thought they could land him for really cheap might panic right now. Holliday is slugging right now, felling good and the weather is heating up…but so are the A’s…
If we can sweep the O’s and create some “summer magic” – He’s not going anywhere – or atleast until the allstar break
by ryanmoser on Jun 6, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or...
…If what we’ve seen the past few days is the real deal, then the A’s could use a big bat like Holliday to help the young pitchers win some games and get some confidence - which was the idea when he was signed. I shudder to think of what the A’s offense will look like if Holliday were traded for yet another prospect, no matter what the potential was.
Come trade deadline, I can see a deal involving Duchsherer and Cabrera for a decent prospect (though that would require moving a piece out of the rotation in order for Duke to get in his innings).
by richwol1 on Jun 6, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It would also require
duke being healthy which does not seem like a given at this point
by chipper1001 on Jun 6, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously
I think it’s a fair bet that he will be healthy at some point this season.
by richwol1 on Jun 6, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the kind of blind optimism we heard about chavvy this year
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
by 9Custs on Jun 6, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wouldn't bet on it happening much before the deadline
Duke wasn’t recently shut down because of back issues. Even if resting his back works and he starts to work agian soon I don’t think he would be able to play for the A’s untill late July, and that is assuming a very positive development from here on out.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously I meant WAS recently shut down
I don’t even know how that happened.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if wallace is a 1b/dh type long term
IMO his value isnt as high, i think chris carter is a better prospect. more athleticism, more power, etc Wallace is struggling in AAA so far. Wallace isnt even the caliber of matt laporta a top 10 overall mlb prospect that went for CC last yr. If its wallace + something else (todd, freese/craig, jones, perez, et) i think that seems better
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 6, 2009 10:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a pretty good bet that
the A’s organization perceives Wallace as a 1B/DH type long term. If they thought he could stick at 3B, they would have drafted him.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jun 6, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although...
Wallace now has almost a year of time at 3B at the professional level so it’s possible that the A’s could have changed their opinion of his defense in that time. Farhan Zaidi did say in an interview that if he could re-draft knowing what they do today he would pick Wallace.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I missed that Zaidi quote.
I’m mildly surprised that he thinks that, and very surprised he actually said it. Doesn’t that look disrespectful of Weeks? And what is gained by admitting publicly?
Do you have a link? I’d love to see what interview made that come out.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jun 6, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was in a member-only interview over on the A's scout website
It was a little longer than that and he qualified by saying that his evaluation could change back over time as both are very good prospects. I don’t think it was meant to be a shot at Weeks, he just mentioned that both were at the top of the draft board last year and they preferred Weeks, but that in the past year Wallace has surpassed him as a prospect. I think this is a pretty accepted evaluation.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't "knowing what they do today"
largely mean “If we’d known Weeks would miss nearly a full year of development with a serious injury, we’d have gone with the healthy guy”?
Not that I’ve seen the quote, not being a member.
by Faust on Jun 6, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would imagine that is the biggest factor
I was just saying that a teams scouting report on a player can change after a year of playing.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
Maybe, but the bat has been advanced enough that Zaidi just as well might be saying that without any regard to Wallace’s defense. With the young groundballing staff, I don’t believe the A’s would be willing to run out a -10 (or worse) at third which is what I take “adequate” to be (always the word used to describe to Wallace’s D, except when it’s “below average”).
Btw, I really didn’t think that was cool of Zaidi to say to the press.
by AgitationStation on Jun 6, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very possible
I don’t really know what the report on Wallace defense over the past year has been.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wallace at 3rd.
Wallace projects to be the type of offensive player that could hit close to .300/.400/.500 annually. With that type of production, he doesn’t need to be all that great with the glove to be a really valuable 3rd baseman. The knock on him, it seems, has been that he will never have great range at the hot corner due to his body type. However, he seems to handle balls he can get to just fine, indicating that he’s got decent defensive fundamentals and enough arm strength to be effective for at least a few years.
If the A’s got Wallace and then got a rangy shortstop to help buffer the left-side of the infield (Jack Wilson? Re-sign O-Cab?) then the overall infield defense would be fine.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 6, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wallace at 3B, Cardenas at SS
And any grounder to the left side is a hit.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly why I advocate getting a rangy shortstop for a year if the A's do get Wallace.
Besides the fact that Cardenas is definitely not a shortstop either short-term or long-term. Scouts seem mixed on the idea of Wallace holding his own at 3rd, but on Cardenas, the scouting report is near unanimous: he has nowhere near enough range/defensive instincts to be a major league shortstop either now or in the future.
Anyways…say the A’s trade for Wallace. Before he becomes the full-time 3rd baseman in 2010, the team could easily acquire/sign a solid gloveman to man short for a year to help break Wallace in and to help the young groundballing pitchers. Come 2011, it’s looking like one of Coleman or Christian (both solid defenders at short) should be ready for the show. T
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 6, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if Christian is still considered a SS
Even when Coleman gets a day off Christian remains at third so it could be a permanent move at this point.
by DiegoAsFan on Jun 6, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I see that...
but I just don’t understand it. Christian had the reputation of being a very solid defensive shortstop throughout college and going into the draft and his bat profiles a lot better at shortstop. Maybe the team thinks he’s going to fill out his wiry frame over the next few years, put on some major muscle weight, start hitting bombs and be forced to play third once he loses his quickness. I could see that, eventually, but why not keep trotting him out there at the most difficult defensive position while he’s still young and see if he can hack it?
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 6, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wan't Chavez a SS before he turned pro?
Maybe they want a strong defensive 3B vs average SS professionally.
by rightbackin on Jun 6, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they want Coleman and Christian to go up together, but since they are both SS
and Weeks and Cardenas have 2B, they wanted to keep both on the left side of the infield. Coleman is the better SS Prospect, so they put Christian at 3B.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sickels
gives Brett Wallace an A-
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/1/5/709221/st-louis-cardinals-top-20
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jun 6, 2009 11:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
how sweet would
3B – Wallace
SS- Cardenas
2B – Weeks
1B – ? Carter/doolitlle/barton
by ryanmoser on Jun 6, 2009 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Our pitchers would shudder at the thought of giving up a groundball
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 6, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can't be worse than what the Yankees had for a while
1B-Giambi
2B-Cano
SS-Jeter
3B-A-Rod
Silver lining FTW!
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 6, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Trevor.
Say something funny.
by muffinpryde on Jun 6, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardenas is not a shortstop.
Put him at 2nd, get a stop-gap/all-glove shortstop for a year until Coleman/Christian are ready, convert Weeks into a center fielder and then in 2011 you roll with:
1B – Doolittle/Carter
2B – Cardenas
SS – Coleman/Christian
3B – Wallace
LF – Cunningham/Carter?
CF – Weeks
RF – Brown/Doolittle/Buck?
C – Suzuki/Donaldson
DH – Cust/Carter
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 6, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is more likely to end up
C1 – Donaldson
1B – Wallace
2B – Weeks
3B – Cardenas
SS – Coleman
LF – Cunningham
RF – Doolittle
CF – Brown
DH – Carter
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 6, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That still looks pretty good to me.
I still think that Suzuki will be kept on this team through his arbitration years. Yes, Donaldson can hit a bit, but he still seems to be a bit raw behind the dish and the A’s seem to put a fair amount of value on “handling the pitching staff”.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 6, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
is doolittle's arm strong enough for right field?
by inbillywetrust on Jun 6, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Short answer - yes.
He was a very successful pitcher in college and was actually being looked at as a pitcher going into the draft. The A’s just really liked his bat and defense and got him to concentrate his efforts in the field and at the plate.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jun 6, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
Wallace’s minor league defense stats, per minorleaguesplits.com(I apologize for crappy formatting):
Yr Age Team Lg Org/Lev Pos Outs Chances Runs
2008 21 Quad Cities MDW ST./A 3B 53 92 -3
2008 21 Springfield TEX ST./AA 3B 14 27 -3
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on Jun 6, 2009 12:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't do it
Honestly, unless the boys just completely come off the tracks, I’d just hold onto Holliday through the season and take the two 1st round picks. Wallace doesn’t impress me, and Beane is in the enviable position that he doesn’t HAVE to trade Holliday unless someone blows him away with a package. I’d rather have his bat in the lineup, taking some of the pressure off of the Baby A’s, and let them learn the ropes while not worrying that allowing a run or two dooms them to an instant loss.
by GreenOctober69 on Jun 6, 2009 2:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"I’d rather have his bat in the lineup, taking some of the pressure off of the Baby A’s,"
Overrated. Pitcher will be fine.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jun 6, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Getting someone who might help long term (although not nearly as much as Holliday) is a much more important factor than getting run support for the pitchers.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 6, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Sorry, I don’t see it that way. I think giving these kids some offense support this year, where they know they can make a mistake and it won’t kill them, is more important then getting more “pieces”. I have a hard time believing that we’re going to get someone to give up their number one positional prospect for a couple of months of Holliday, and I wouldn’t trade him for parts. Wallace doesn’t impress me, I’d rather take the two draft picks when Holliday signs elsewhere. We have too many holes in the offense long term, I’d rather figure out who the top 5-6 starters and bullpen pieces are going to be for the long haul, and use the surplus for trades during the off season, hell maybe even pay Holliday his value and bring him back (I admit this is a LONG shot, and probably would require Chavez retiring and reaching a settlement to free up cash).
by GreenOctober69 on Jun 6, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I have a hard time believing that we’re going to get someone to give up their number one positional prospect for a couple of months of Holliday,"
Well the Brewers did just that for Sabathia.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jun 7, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Braves for Teixeira
(Salty was their best position prospect at the time of trade).
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 7, 2009 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Tiex had a yeahr and a half on his remaining deal.
"Their Triple-A rotation, led by Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson, could be better than some big-league rotations; Michael Ynoa is the best Latin American prospect of the decade; 2008 draftees Jemile Weeks and Rashun Dixon bring much-needed tools to an advanced group of hitters." - BaseballProspectus.com
by Syphon on Jun 7, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caught part of the Cards pregame
And they were definitely talking about it. However, one of the reporters brought up the fact that because Holliday’s contract would be more than they’re paying Albert Pujols, they would then “have to renegotiate” Albert’s contract, and then would have no money left.
by rickenbacker on Jun 6, 2009 4:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn but I'm spoiled by LJ's EDIT COMMENT option
Erm, I didn’t explain that well.
1) By “Holliday’s contract” of course, I meant 2010 … the Cardinals are just not known to give up a lot for a guy who’s only going to be with them a couple months.
2) And the numbers from Holliday’s presumed 2010 contract are based on what he turned down with the Rockies.
by rickenbacker on Jun 6, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see the Cards "breaking tradition" though
1—Mozeliak is new to GMing. He’s only had one season as GM, and although he hasn’t made any major trades, its too early to judge what he may or may not do. The team also looks in a much better position to contend in the Central than it did last year, with the Cubs fading and the Cards and Brewers even. And, there was plenty of negative PR last year when TLR complained about not having a veteran closer/bullpen issues. And also negative PR when TLR said he wanted Fuentes but he went to LAAAAAAAAAA. I’m not saying PR is ever an issue to make a trade, but that might be an impetus to get the big ticket bat, even if he walks after the season as a FA. TLR wants a big bat.
2- Rasmus isn’t really getting everyday PT. He’s started in 39 games (out of 57 total). And its not like the guys Rasmus is sitting for are better players. Ludwick is on the DL
3—they need to do everything they can to extend Pujols anyway. Give him whatever he wants within reason.
4—there is no guarantee he gets what he turned down with the Rox. That actually was a fair deal for him considering his value and he should get a similar contract, but the market has interesting ways of working. I have a feeling Bay gets massively overpaid in relation to Holliday.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 6, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Kozma
Young SS playing well at every level. Eduardo Sanchez nice looking small pitcher.
by apilgrim on Jun 8, 2009 6:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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