Great News A's Fans: Bryce Harper
by AthleticsReign on Jun 3, 2009 12:10 PM PDT
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PrintI really didn't know what to think about how this season was progressing. I was begining to question our resident genius Billy Beane. Then I saw this:
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1156215/1/index.htm
It all has become clear. Beane's masterstroke is to tank this season so that he can get the #1 pick next year to draft Bryce Harper a once in a generation talent(Remind us of someone? ahem... Michael Ynoa). Wait wait now you say... Harper isn't eligible till the 2011 draft. They are seriously considering getting his GED and enrolling in a JUCO which would make him eligible.
What do all of you think? Willing to tank this season to get him? Worth it or not?
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won't happen
No matter how bad the A’s are this year, the Nationals will be worse. I don’t think Beane could have predicted the players would be so unproductive. Will he do anything about it? Maybe not.
Trade Holliday to the Nat's
Kill to birds with one stone. The Nat’s get better and we get Bryce.
a ground rule double followed by three unproductive outs, sounds like my sex life - dayzd toe
Too bad they got rid
Of rotating the National and American league for the 1st pick in the draft. I’m not realistically thinking about it but if there was any consolation to this whole season this would be it.
Holy shit.
If we somehow end up with the worst record in the league then I have a feeling I won’t be as sad as I could be.
570 feet? What the shit?
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
We actually might get a chance at Strasburg
If Boras really does ask for $50 million and the Nats can’t make a deal, they would have to get permission from him to draft him again in 2010. And, if he asks for that much and the Nats can’t make a deal, there will be outrage in all corners and mandatory slotting could become a reality.
Of course, I don’t think the A’s will end up with the second best record as the pitching develops and the hitting heats up with the warmer weather, but it’s not an entirely implausible scenario.
by AgitationStation on Jun 3, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions
probably won't finish with the second worst record either
…
by AgitationStation on Jun 3, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I would be happy if we could get something in the top 5
Every day is just a little worse than the previous, that means every day is the worst day of my life.
by shooting4life on Jun 3, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
F**k it...
let’s just win the World Series this year and forget about all this s**t.
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 4, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought Strasburg was going in THIS year's draft.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Oh, nevermind. I get what you're saying now.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Before Ynoa, when's the last time the A's aggressively went after the "can't miss" guy in the draft?
Todd Van Poppel?
How’d that work out?
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
ynoa wasn't drafted
but i know what you mean
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
LOL. Ok, ya got me there.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Van Poppel
Van Poppel had a major league contract and was rushed. The A’s were forced to promote him despite his control issues. The A’s have shown they are ready to take it slowly with Ynoa so I don’t think the situations are comparable.
This kid is ridiculous
I just read the story in SI and I immediately went on youtube and watched some of his videos. He has such a huge ego, but who wouldn’t when you can hit a ball 500+ feet and you’re only 16. I liked the part of the story where he went on a trip with a traveling baseball team and went 12 for 12 with 11 homeruns and 1 double. When his mom asked him how he did he replied, “I did alright.”
I watched the eight minute promo video
the kid is certainly iimpressive….though if major leaguers also used aluminum bats they’d be hitting some HRs a lot farther than 500 feet…
if MLB used aluminum bats,
pitchers would have to wear armor, and I’m not even kidding…
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 4, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
that's the point...
as impressive as this kid looks, he hit that 502 ft HR during a home run derby with an aluminum bat…just keeping a little perspective
he's also 16
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
Yeah I want him... Badly
He could play every position on the diamond according to PG crosschecker at the pro level. Thats fucking nuts. Drool.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 3, 2009 1:34 PM PDT reply actions
Posey has actually done it
He also won awards as a high school pitcher.
Last summer I watched some of the College World Series, mainly to try to see Jemile Weeks aftert the A’s drafted him…but the player who most impressed me was Posey.
That's kinda what made Posey such a big name heading towards the draft
His stock skyrocketed after that game.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
He's someone to dream on, but be wary...
The last high schooler to make the cover of SI wasn’t even drafted.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
isnt he eligible in 2011?
so this yrs record has no influence in a draft 2 yrs from now
I think he is working to be eligible next year
The idea is that he would earn his G.E.D. this summer then enroll in a JUCO in the fall. If he is able to do this successfully he would be eligible for the draft next June.
I can't put my finger on why, but that plan of his scares me.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
it seems wrong
but, if I had a chance to cash in, with no other skills or interests, it might make sense. It seems better than the charade of NCAA basketball. At least you have to perform to some degree to get a G.E.D.
I don't see why it would.
It’s not like he’s OJ Mayo or Sebastian Telfair, just a thug who is trying to cash in by playing Pro Sports.
At least according to the article, he played other sports (good), hangs out like a normal teenager in high school (good), has a 3.5 GPA (good), attends religious study before class (eh, whatever, I’m a borderline antitheist), and seems to have his head screwed on reasonably straight.
Short version: He’s a prodigy, and just happens to be awesome at baseball.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
None of that precludes him from being blinded by dollar signs and wanting to cash in.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Why does everyone like losing so much?
I marvel at how often people on this forum speak positively about the prospect of having a horrible season. How can the plus of the number one draft pick outweigh the minus of being the worst team in the league? Don’t you like to win games?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
it feels like its for the benefit of the longrun
no one actually likes losing, i think some A’s fans have been conditioned to think long term, i know it doesn’t apply to all
Bryce Harper can already play with college kids, he could very well change the fortunes of this team,
what i’m getting at is would you have had the A’s lose just one more game than the rangers a year ago to have smoak over weeks, or did that one win mean more to you
or what if the warriors tanked the 2002 season to net lebron in ’03, if they went through the torment of one horrendous season, it would have saved them the torment of 5 bad seasons
Bryce Harper might very well be able to do what Lebron did for the Cavs (and yes i know were talking different sports)
When we played softball, I’d steal second base, feel guilty and go back.
- Woody Allen
by rhymeswithelephant on Jun 3, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
If I'm at that last game, I want to see my team win.
That matters more to me than picking 11th instead of 12th.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I'm with you.
That one game difference that cost us Smoak was unfortunate, and an aberration. It’s also not at all comparable to what it would take to get into the top 3 picks, let alone the top pick. Losing sucks – can you imagine AN towards the end of a 100-loss season? This place would be a nuclear wasteland, and a lot of the same folks who think they want to go for that high pick would be viciously attacking management as inept. I don’t think people who embrace the idea of getting a #1 pick have really come to terms with just how painful that process is in reality.
I don't know...
I believe in playing hard and winning today,
but there is a part of me that doesn’t really give a crap about the daily/yearly grind and thinks that all non-championship seasons are a failure on some level. That part of me is totally down for tanking an obviously non-championship level season for higher odds of a championship in future seasons.
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 4, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
We are already terrible...
Id rather be atrocious watch the kids and get high draft picks than watch us be medium terrible with a lineup of quasivets.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 3, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
The difference between terrible and atrocious
is about 10 more games where we lose instead of win. If you never watch the games and only read the W-L record at the end of the year, then I guess you can say it doesn’t matter, but I’m the opposite. I don’t pay much attention to the standings, I just like the games.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Yeah I watch most of my A's games on Gameday...
Its what being a NRAF at college in a black out area (Salem Oregon) does to you. Beyond that Ill listen on the radio when I can, watch the highlight clips that MLB.com has and have always read the recaps since I was in the 3rd grade and started bringing the chronicle to school. However, I think that watching 100 games a year on gameday gives you a more detached view of the season and a greater appreciation of statistics and the phrase “in play, run(s)”.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 3, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Man, when a good or important game is tight and coming down to the wire and you're watching on Gameday
it’s absolutely agonizing to have to wait those few seconds between “In play, run(s)” or “In play, out(s)” to actually find out the result of the play. I’ve literally sat on the edge of my chair, nearly falling off and waiting with baited breath to find out if it was a run or runS, or if it was an out or outS.
I live abroad and while I’ve been subscribing to mlb.tv the past couple of years and gameday audio before that, I still make extensive use of Gameday. It’s funny how different the experience of watching a full game is that way!
I love them A's, even when they're earnin' F's.
I don't think I have the attention span
to watch a whole game on Gameday.
It’s hard enough to watch a whole game on TV…
Then again, I’m kind of an antsy person…
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 4, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I love it when I cheer and someone asks me what happend
I say “In play run(s)” or " in play, out(s)" because I still don’t know what actually happened.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 4, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Kendall's streak home on Krod's fumble
was the most agonizing time in my entire life when it comes to gameday…
I seriously waited about 10 mins just kinda clicking back and forth without an idea of what happened… and so I just got pissed to the max, got in my car, and drove up the hill to where I get better radio reception, only to find one of the most awesome, heads up sprints home ever just happened, and put us into 1st place… and I had to ‘watch’ it on gameday.. haha
by dingosean on Jun 4, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Refresh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGGGGGGG.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 4, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that the A's have a disproportionate number of fans that are always looking to the future
I am not saying that its good or bad but this site has a very high number of fans who follow the minors and are mostly focused on the prospects and the future.
I want to win now and will always feel that way.
Losing has a way of growing on a team and I never want to see my team develop it no matter who the draft selection
I don't know if that's true of A's fans in general,
but it’s certainly true of AN.
I have no problem with making tradeoffs between the present and the future. I wouldn’t say I want every game to be played like it’s the only one, in terms of burning out pitchers, etc. And I do like to follow the guys in the minors, trades, drafts, etc.
I just think a lot of people here are so overwhelmingly focused on the future that they enjoy collecting prospects more than being fans of the actual team.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Word. I see a lot of that here.
I just think a lot of people here are so overwhelmingly focused on the future that they enjoy collecting prospects more than being fans of the actual team.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Yeah, but...
some people are fans of the team, thick or thin,
and some people are fans of winning, and just happen to root for this team.
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 4, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
exactly...
…but I don’t like things touching on my plate, dammit!
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 4, 2009 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Focusing on the future and being a fan of the actual team is in no way, mutually exclusive.
Personally, I love to look foward and see what are future is going to be like. Right now I enjoy discussing prospectss and following the minor leagues closesly. However, this doesn’t mean I don’t root for the team and I still love watching/attending games. I focus on teh future because this team is not likely to be competetive this year.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
If there is no possibility of winning now,
why would you focus on winning now?
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
Hey, on any given day,
the A’s have a 40% chance of winning.
That’s enough for some people.
That’s completely pathetic to others.
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 4, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I tend to agree.
Losing has a way of growing on a team and I never want to see my team develop it no matter who the draft selection
I’ve been chastised for saying similar things before, but I believe that people get used to losing just as they get used to winning, and ball players are people too. In fact, I’ve been wondering of late if part of the reason the team seems so apathetic these days is precisely because they have gotten used to, and accepted, losing. Many of these players are into their 3rd year of losing. Maybe it’s just par for the course for them now.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Wait..
Bryce Harper might very well be able to do what Lebron did for the Cavs (and yes i know were talking different sports)
Lose in the conference championship???
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
well just getting back there would be a start, these sub .500 seasons make me appreciative of getting to a point where you can get knocked out of the playoffs instead of not being there at all
When we played softball, I’d steal second base, feel guilty and go back.
- Woody Allen
by rhymeswithelephant on Jun 3, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Beane, is that you?
This guy looks impressive. Tank the season? Are the A’s the Raiders now? Hmm… to sink so low. I like how the Raiders decided to pull out the last few games of the season, btw, giving up draft positions. The A’s certainly don’t plan on finishing in last place. Call me wrong if it ends up that way, but, there is plenty enough minor leagues without looking as low as high-school to determine how you play in the majors. I hope you are joking. LOL… then the jokes on me.
Optimistic...
Whats the difference with
Missing the playoffs by 1 game or 20 games under .500? Nothing your still outside looking in, at least thats in retrospect. Of course during the season its exciting but if we are currently not a playoff calibur team this year and can get a “LeBron James” type of player that could make you great for years to come, then why not? Honestly how dumb must Seattle feel right now!? They could have thrown the last 3 games of last season and it would have been them getting Strasburg.
I’m not actually saying tank the season. But if it continues down this path where we are right near the bottom. I’d rather they go all out near the end to put a cap on this disasterous season then to end up a la Seattle with the 2nd pick instead of the 1st.
by AthleticsReign on Jun 3, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you kidding me?
With that logic, you may as well be the Nationals as opposed to the World Series runner up. The excitement of having every single game in September mean something trumps a 60 win season in any freaking year.
by Pucking Insane on Jun 3, 2009 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
reading comprehension must not
be either of your strong points. I said in retrospect, thats looking at it after the season has ended. So with your logic it must be fantastic being Seattle, when they had the chance to secure the 1st pick. I never said anywhere to tank the season if the A’s are competitive. Yeah every game in September means a whole lot if your sitting at 58-101 with 3 games to go. I’m quivering with excitement at that notion, aren’t you?
by AthleticsReign on Jun 3, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Do you even watch the games? You watch us lose instead of win 19 times and you say “what’s the difference?”
Let me ask you a theoretical question, since you seem to think nothing but the playoffs matters: Suppose there were no playoffs. You just play the entire regular season and then there’s no post-season. If that were the case would you say all of baseball is completely meaningless?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Do you tell the players to lose on purpose?
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
No..
But you could start Hanahan, Crosby and Davis and that would equate to losing.
by AthleticsReign on Jun 3, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm pretty sure we do that already,
and surprise! were losing!
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
atm, we would have the 3rd Overall pick
I doubt he’d fall to us if he did enter the draft.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
This is a joke right?
BB wouldn’t think this way and if he is tanking the season on this premise, my 16 year old sister should be the general manager of the A’s.
Side note: Chris Berroa makes his debut tonight for Kane County
Yes, I wasn't honestly saying
That this is Beane’s intention to tank the season. With all the moronic moves that Geren’s been making that just go against all logic. It would just be explainable and laughable if it was attributed to this. Everyones too Freaking serious around here… just trying to stir up some conversation here.
What I am serious about tho is this…and if anyone argues against this they are just plain tards. If we are so far out of contention as Seattle was(in fact they had the worst record before playing that last 3 game series with us) and we do not purposely try to LOSE so we can get a once in a generation talent like Harper in the last 3 freaking games of the season. I’m sure Seattle fans will agree with me on this, I would be absolutely livid.
by AthleticsReign on Jun 3, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess I'm a plain tard then.
I don’t want to intentionally lose any game.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I don't think you understand my point
well if it looks like a tard, walks like a tard, and talks like a tard. I think you can finish the rest. Your honestly telling me that if you were in Seattle’s position last year. As a fan of the team, with the worst record in the majors with 3 games to go, you wouldn’t want want them to lose those games. Just to be able to draft Stephen Strasburg who could immediately come in to any rotation in baseball to pitch right away? A talent that could turn around an entire franchise. Then your the type that is willing to sacrifice long term goals for short term gain and I’m glad you have nothing to do with the decision making process of this franchise.
by AthleticsReign on Jun 3, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I do understand your point.
First of all Seattle fans don’t agree with you. There were about 27,000 of them at Safeco at the final game last year, and they weren’t rooting for the A’s. They were rooting for a Mariners win. Are they all tards, too?
Second, let’s think this through. Assuming no change in the Nationals’ W-L record, the Mariners would have had to lose two more games. If you think that’s worthwhile, you’re saying the #1 pick is worth two wins more than the #2 pick. How well does the record bear that out? Yes, the #1 is great, but the #2 and #3 are usually very good, too. In some years the #1 didn’t turn out better than the #2 at all. From the 2006 draft the best player now looks like Evan Longoria, who was #3. I just don’t think you’re factoring in appropriate uncertainty by declaring Strasburg an automatic 2 win shares better than whoever is second best.
And if the difference between #1 and #2 really is clearly worth more than two wins, why wouldn’t the Nationals throw their games, too, and keep it out of reach?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
ditto
I understand your point Reign, but I just couldn’t sit well with myself rooting against the A’s. I think Strasburg is going to be a pretty darn good picture—a Verlander comparison would be pretty close—but last year Strasburg had not put up the kind of numbers that we’ve seen this season.
There is going to be talent in this draft from the 1st player taken to the last. Just think, Pujols was taken in the 13th round, Piazza was the last player drafted as a favor. You can’t give up a few games for the chance at one player, because that player won’t completely turn around your franchise. Stephen will come in and pitch every 5th day and will likely do well—but what about the other four days, and what about the offense. We of all fans can appreciate the 1-0 win or 0-1 loss where the pitching was awesome and there was no offense whatsoever.
I want my team to go out and win that last game—that’s why I paid for my ticket.
Getting David Price was great
but was it that much better than getting Mike Moustakas?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
It could also mean the difference between Jemile Weeks or Justin Smoak..
But in general I agree with your premise. Intentionally losing games to secure a better position in the draft is not only a metaphorical slap in the face to the fans who bought tickets to attend those games, it also is a rather great and foolhardy risk to place your bets on a volatile draft (that’s occurring several months into the future). Essentially, I’d say there’s actually a very slim chance that intentionally losing games would even benefit the team long term. Too many factors involved.
Your not serious are you?
Your comparing David Price to Mike Moustakas? I fully respect your opinion and understand your point of view regarding tossing a couple meaningless games at the end of a season. Seriously tho… lay off the peyote. Your talking about the #1 pitching prospect in baseball that has all the tools to be a front line starter now compared to Mike Moustakas… I would love to know who would actually rather take Mike Moustakas over David Price so I can ridicule them endlessly. I’m not saying Moustakas won’t make a fine player… he could even end up having a better career than Price. From a prospect point of view they are not even in the same galaxy.
by AthleticsReign on Jun 3, 2009 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
You have a funny way of arguing.
You say “I fully respect your opinion”, but your language says otherwise. Every time you respond to me or anyone else, your argument is decorated with colorful insults about being retarded, having poor reading comprehension, using mind-altering drugs, etc. That doesn’t sound like full respect to me.
As for the argument, let me make sure I’m understanding you. You’re saying that Moustakas may well have a better career than Price, but in spite of that you are sure even now that Price is two full wins better than Moustakas.
I’m also curious exactly how high you’re willing to bid on this. For the sake of argument, let’s say we know Bryce Harper will definitely be eligible for the 2010 draft. How many games are you willing to lose to get him? 10? 20? 50?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
What I was trying to convey
was that I respect the fact that you are taking a stance on what you believe and I can see where your coming from. I may believe your wrong and do not agree with everything you say but I can understand and respect the fact that you are taking a stance on this matter. I should seperate issues better.
Now where I’m insluting you or anyone else is when you make ludicrous suggestions that Moustakas is in any way, shape or form in the same class as Price. For arguments I’m not saying Price is 2 wins better than anyone, as I’m not putting a number on that. What I’m saying is Price is a far superior player now, and a far better prospect.
Why is it so hard to understand that someone can have a better career than someone else but still be an inferior player? Dana Eveland could have a better career than Trevor Cahill, but does that mean hes the better player? No, it doesn’t. Injuries are just one of many things that could turn a player from future star to a never been.
Your curious on how high I’m willing to bid on this? Where did I ever say in all seriousness that the A’s should tank the entire season to get Bryce Harper? All I said is if we are put in Seattles position last year with the worst record in baseball with 3 meaningless games to go(Maybe not for the fans at the park, I understand that). But meaningless in retrospect when looking at the long term benifits it could yield. Yes I’ll be willing to lose those 3 games.
Just to make this clear by losing I’m not suggesting the mighty Billy Beane calls Bobby G and say’s “Bob your going to order your players to lose”. What I am saying is you don’t put them in a position to win by starting the likes of Crosby, Hannahan, Davis, and any of our AAAA fodder sitting in the minors.
by AthleticsReign on Jun 4, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Intentionally?
Or by mistake?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Thanks! we appreciate itm :-P
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 4, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
If the A's want to get the #1 pick next year
They better start the firesale tomorrow. Trade Holliday, Braden, Cust, Cabrera, Giambi, replace with Putnam, Pennington, Barton… I don’t see that happening, but the kid does look like a prodigy. I’d love to have him, but I don’t think anybody that wants to keep their job intentionally loses.
Don't get me wrong
I don’t want them to intentionally throw games…. at least not now. But if they continue down this path and by the end of the season are in the same position as Seattle was last season. Owners of the worst record in baseball with 3 games to go and they win all 3 and kick themselves out of the Strasburg sweepstakes. Ask Seattle fans how they feel about that? I’m talking about real hardcore fans not casual fans who only view the present and can’t see past their nose. I’m sure everyone thinks Ackley is just as good as Strasburg huh?
by AthleticsReign on Jun 3, 2009 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
If I were a professional ballplayer or coach and I intentionally threw a game for any reason,
even if we were 0-159 on the season, I’d want to hang up the cleats and quit. I get your point, and it’s got some validity in terms of the long-term picture, but the argument really goes against (or should IMO) the fiber of what makes somebody a professional athlete. May as well throw a game because you bet money on it.
Perhaps this is an argument that boils down to a fan vs. player perspective. Ultimately I think this is regardless of what fans think, whether they be casual or hardcore. If as a player I intentionally threw a game for any reason, including securing a top draft pick that may turn out great or may turn out to be a bust, I don’t think I’d want to face any fans ever again. (And I of course am just a fan, not a player, but I hope that any player/team I root for has this mentality.)
I love them A's, even when they're earnin' F's.
Granted, if my team was 0-159, we'd have the first 10 draft picks locked up already
but my point still stands.
I love them A's, even when they're earnin' F's.
But i already want to trade all of those players anyway!
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 4, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions
You're a stats guy, DFA
Tell me. Has anyone worked up an equation for measuring win shares of draft picks? I’m curious exactly how many wins it’s worth to move up one slot in the draft order. Surely someone has studied that.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
It seems like it'd be impossible to come up with a stat like that
Yeah, the odds are tilted towards the draft pick turning out to be a very solid if not great player, but I’m sure there are plenty who have also gone belly up for one reason or another or just leveled out at “average” and then those lost wins (is that an oxymoron?) ain’t worth squat. Too much chance and chaos theory between draft time and MLB debut time to really measure that I think. Of course, I could be wrong and maybe something could be developed from extrapolating teams’ experience from the past, but it’s just still too great of an unknown to make it worth it.
I love them A's, even when they're earnin' F's.
Heres what it comes down to
I’m not suggesting doing this as a plan to start the season. But if you have the chance to get a generational talent like this and a disasterous season is winding down with no redemption in sight. Your telling me those 3 wins in the last 3 games are worth more than selecting someone that could change the face of the franchise for the next 6-10 years? The guy is compared to Joe Mauer with power and speed. I understand baseball prospects are more volatile than other sports and can flame out for a wide variety of reasons.
Answer this would anyone here take anyone else from the 2009 draft except for Stephen Strasburg given that they could pick whomever they wanted? Strasburg is leaps and bounds above anyone else. The same case will be made for Harper. Baseball America stated that if both Strasburg and Harper were prospects as they were right now they would rate as the #3 and #4 prospects in the game right now. Just behind Price and Wieters.
I would not be willing to watch my team lose additional games to draft Matt Harvey, but I would be to draft Bryce Harper.
by AthleticsReign on Jun 4, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
If the season is obviously a waste...
…I can see playing prospects in August and September (maybe even sooner) to see what they can do and develop them further. You know you’re bound to lose more games than you might otherwise, but there’s an obvious method to the madness. I still can’t go with the idea of purposely losing games to gain a higher draft choice.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
In this scenario you're speculating on,
do you mean if we’re already in last place with three games to go, we should lose those three in order to guarantee we stay last? Or do you mean if we’re still a game up on the Nationals and we should lose three in order to try to get below them, hoping they’re dumb enough to accidentally win one?
Also, are you discussing a situation where we already know that Bryce Harper has done that tricky GED maneuver and become eligible for the 2010 draft, or a situation where it’s still uncertain whether that’s going to happen?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
What I said was
Given Seattle’s scenario last year where they were in last place with 3 games to go, yes they had a worse record than the Nationals at the time. Why would you shoot yourself in the foot by winning 3 games in a row let alone one game so that you could secure yourself a franchise changing talent a la Strasburg. Now Harper isn’t going to have the immediate impact that Stras is gonna have but he’s in that type of league talent wise.
To clarify I’m discussing that we know for sure hes done it and we know for fact he is draft eligible. Again I’m not saying toss in the towel now. I just wanted to know given that scenario would people want the A’s to lose to secure that spot or win to lose it? I’ve already asked everyone if they are willing to sacrifice the season to get someone like Harper and its a resounding no, which is what I expected. I wouldn’t give up on this season now or a month from now. But given the Seattle scenario I just can’t come to grips of how anyone would want the A’s to suffer in the long run for a short term gain of 3 meaningless games?
by AthleticsReign on Jun 4, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Because there's no such thing as a meaningless game.
Every win is a source of joy, no matter what the standings.
I can see how in a situation like you describe some would hope to lose, as Graham did for the M’s last year. But I think it’s going too far to say that anyone who doesn’t hope to lose is stupid.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Okay I admit
I went overboard with the insults. So I apologize. I just view the whole situation similar to war or chess. If your not willing to sacrifice a soldier or pawn now for a greater benifit later then where is this all going? I understand that you want to see an enjoyable product on the field, hell we all do. I just think it would be hell of a lot more enjoyable to be watching a Strasburg/Harper type talent then the alternative.
Again I’m not suggesting tossing games now, but given where Seattle was last season. Yes I would want them to lose knowing what we would be getting next season in that situation. Its like they decieded not to stay the course. They could have finished what they started but instead they divert from their plan of action.
by AthleticsReign on Jun 4, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that you would have to just average them for the slot over time.
Now there would be some problems (like teams taking signability picks rather than reflecting the true value of the slot. Yes Im looking at you Pirates.) but it would give you a rough approximation. Do I know where that has been done? Nope. What I would expect is a significant difference at the top of the draft. The difference between 12 and 10 being big and as the draft proceeded the difference would decline between picks. The other problem is small sample size. Mike Piazza’s slot in the 45th round will way out weigh the other busts and distort the value of the pick.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 4, 2009 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Surely it's not that small a sample.
The sample is every player ever drafted, right?
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
Well lets say you do it over thirty years
Thats only thirty players per slot. That isn’t really a viable sample size.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 4, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
The kid looks amazing...
youtube him….
that 502 foot shot!…another reason why MLB doesn’t use metal bats…anyways, the kid stands to make more money the Straus this year if he stays healthy..
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