The (Travis) Buck Stops Here
by mattabedi on Jun 26, 2009 2:04 AM PDT
88 comments
A's Young Outfielder Proving to Management He Belongs
Travis Buck is angry. He's let it be known that he's not happy with A's management, nor manager Bob Geren.
And I don't blame him.
After returning from the 15 day disabled list on June 14th, the A's optioned Buck to AAA-Sacramento.
At the time, it was thought that Buck was sent down to get work in while the A's played 9 straight interleague games in NL parks. After all, the A's had to get their everday DH and home run leader, Jack Cust, into the lineup. But now that the A's are back in American League ballparks for the rest of the way, that never seemed to be the case as Buck is still stuck in AAA.
Buck was upset about being placed on the disabled list on May 30th, a day after refusing to play in the second game of a double header against the Texas Rangers on May 29th due to a strained oblique muscle. Even though Buck supplied almost all of the A's offense in the first game, it must of made both Bob Geren and Billy Beane mad that Buck said he was pain free the next day.
Even though the A's front office would never admit to it, it's really the only explanation that makes sense. After all, Buck has hit .323 in his last 31 at bats with the team. Most of which have come sparingly due to Bob Geren platooning Buck for the entire season.
But then that got this A's fan thinking....
Could Billy Beane's ego be that big that he would sacrifice putting a better product on the field to make a statement to a player? Or was it Bob Geren, the man that has refused to give Buck regular at bats since the beginning of the season, that wanted Buck off the roster?
The A's as a team were hitting just .242 at the time Buck was placed on the disabled list and it seems odd the team wouldn't want one of their hottest hitters in the lineup. The team batting average has since dropped to .235 through Sunday, which is worst in the majors.
However, Buck isn't letting the demotion affect him.
So far in 54 plate appearances for the Rivercats, Buck is hitting .386 with a .463 on base percentage. Not only that, but Buck is slugging .591, with 6 doubles and 1 home run in just 11 games. He clearly is sending management a message of his own.
A message like "You made a big mistake".
A rookie in 2007, Buck played very well for the A's as he went on to hit .288 with 7 home runs in just 285 at bats. Inspired by his performance and work ethic, the A's decided to trade their oft injured star in Milton Bradley in order to secure everday playing time for him.
However, after starting out 0 for his first 20 at bats in 2008, the A's sent Travis to AAA to fix his swing rather than letting him work out his problems with the big league club.
After a few weeks, Buck had fixed his swing, but the A's found that they didn't have a roster spot for him as they had brought back Frank Thomas to fill a void in the lineup.
Buck continued to hit in the minors and finished the year batting .326 for Sacramento. In the final two weeks of September, Buck was called back up to the A's and hit .367 with four home runs and 12 RBI in that time frame.
At the outset of spring training in 2009, Buck came into camp told that he would be battling for the starting right field job. At the conclusion, Buck put all the critics to rest hitting for a .300, a .402 on base percentage and led the team in home runs and RBI. Naturally, it was assumed that Buck would be playing everday for the A's in right field.
However, manager Bob Geren was never a member of the Travis Buck fan club.
Geren decided initially to platoon Buck, only starting him against right handers. The logic never made sense though.
Usually, when a player is to be platooned against left handed pitchers, they are platooned with a player that can hit those lefties better. Buck's platoon partner, outfielder Rajai Davis, wasn't any better at hitting lefties than Buck himself. Buck's career average against left handers was two points higher than Davis. Also, he isn't considered a core piece of the future of the Oakland A's, so it seemed odd to give him the at bats. Up until this point, it seemed as if Travis Buck was one of those players. Now, I'm not so sure....Only because A's management won't let him be.
Buck needs to be up with the major league roster and he needs to be playing everday. He is doing everything in his power to prove he belongs. Whatever the case may be, whether it's Beane or manager Bob Geren, the conflict needs to be resolved and the egos need to be checked. Travis Buck has earned his right to play everday.
If Buck can't force Beane to call him back up, then perhaps his play in Sacramento will force Billy to trade him. Either way, it's a no win situation for Oakland with Buck off of the 25 man roster.
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It's true
That Buck should be playing every day for the big league club right now but I’m not convinced that the team is upset with him. He wasn’t exactly playing all the time when he was in Oakland anyway so maybe they just want to get him consistent AB’s but don’t feel that the majors is the right place for it right now.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 26, 2009 2:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, I don't think being upset with him has anything to do with it
And from what I read Buck didn’t “refuse” to play the second game, he said it wouldn’t be wise since his oblique was getting more and more sore as the day went on. The A’s obviously took that seriously, as they didn’t let him swing a bat or do anything that might aggravate the oblique until they were sure it had fully (even after Buck had issued himself a clean bill of health days earlier). And there’s no point in calling him up if Geren won’t play him – what good is it doing Barton to be with the big club right now?
I do think the A’s need to figure out a way to get Buck up and into the lineup. They need to give him a chance to re-establish his career, not for his sake but for their own.
by Faust on Jun 26, 2009 3:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn’t exactly playing all the time when he was in Oakland anyway so maybe they just want to get him consistent AB’s but don’t feel that the majors is the right place for it right now.
I doubt it. Buck is already 25 years old and has shown he can hit big league pitching. He was one of our hottest hitters before the A’s put him on the DL. Travis has nothing left to prove in AAA. Meanwhile, Davis, Crosby, and Hannahan continue to stink up the A’s lineup every night. In addition, who knows how many extra runs Jack Cust costs us every time he’s in the outfield.
Matt Abedi
by mattabedi on Jun 26, 2009 4:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A reality check on Rajai Davis
First, a stipulation: Davis is not going to be a significant player for the A’s down the road. He’s older than Buck and has less potential than Buck.
But then you say this:
Meanwhile, Davis, Crosby, and Hannahan continue to stink up the A’s lineup every night.
Since Buck was put on the DL (and eventually optioned to AAA), Rajai Davis is hitting .300/.373./.433. Whatever his future may or may not be with the A’s, calling that “stinking up the joint” is crazy. If Buck had gotten every start and AB that Davis has gotten, with exactly the same results, you’d say that .300/.373/.433 proves that Buck deserves to start every day.
And the reason that Crosby and Hannahan are playing is that they can handle positions that Buck can’t. If Buck were a 3B (and Hannahan is a very good 3B), or a reasonably good utility IF, or a decent-to-good CF, he’d be in the majors. But he’s not. He’s a pretty good but not really polished RF.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 26, 2009 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis can also play CF, which the A's believe that Buck can't
by OaklandSi on Jun 26, 2009 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but apparently they think Cust can play RF.
I mean c’mon. Do you really think Buck playing center once in a while would be worse than Cust playing in right? Cust should be the permanent DH. If Giambi is soar then bench him.
by jakebmill on Jun 26, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean 'you' specifically OaklandSi,
I should have said ’ do the A’s think…’
by jakebmill on Jun 26, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting question
How would you answer it? Is Ryan Sweeney as a center fielder your comparable for Travis Buck? Ryan Sweeney is a plus 28 (27.8) defender in right field over 150, Buck is a plus 14 (14.1) over 150… Sweeney is a lot better outfielder and he is a minus 1.5 over 150… So do you extrapolate the “half as effective” and guess Buck as a minus 3?
Jack Cust is a minus 10 in right field over 150 defensive games.
by jeffro on Jun 26, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cust is a minus 11 if you factor in me throwing stuff and injuring Poochini
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 26, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better than throwing Poochini and injuring stuff.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 29, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong...
I am not saying Buck should play in CF over Sweeney. I am not even saying Buck should play CF at all. I am just really, really tired of seeing Cust butcher play after play in RF and I am saying Buck should play in RF over Cust and Cust should DH over Giambi, always.
As a matter of fact, with where this team is at this point in the season, I think Barton should start at first base over Giambi/Crosby more often than not. Let the kids play and lets see what they can do instead of just projecting what we think they might do if they got a real extended chance.
by jakebmill on Jun 26, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis has been hitting well recently but the difference is that he is much more unlikely to be able to keep it up. Buck has a much better hitting pedigree than both Sweeney and Davis, and so to start both of them (one in center, one in right) over Buck is ridiculous.
Career Minor League / Major League OPS
Buck – .902 / .784
Sweeney – .758 / .682
Davis – .782 / .660
Also I have no problem with Crosby as the backup at SS and 3B but what is completely unforgiveable is putting his anemic bat at first base ahead of Barton and Buck, both of whom have a lot more offensive potential than Crosby, and actually have a chance to have a future with the club.
by DeJay on Jun 26, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with you about Davis
That’s what the first sentence of my comment was about.
But mattebadi didn’t say, “Davis may be playing well recently, but he’s not a part of the A’s future and has a lower ceiling than Buck.” He said that Davis was one of 3 guys who “stink up the A’s lineup every night.” That kind of comment looks like someone who’s concocting arguments to justify his conclusion (“Buck should be starting in Oakland”) rather than someone who’s trying to analyze the situation objectively. Because there is no way on Earth that someone can honestly characterize Davis’s play since Buck was DLed and sent down as “stink[ing] up the lineup.”
As to your comparison of Buck, Sweeney, and Davis, the only problem is that Buck isn’t a CF. Sweeney isn’t great, but he’s got more experience there than Buck, who isn’t even that great a RF. And Davis is better than Sweeney, though not as good as he should be given his abilities.
Look, I have no problem with the A’s calling up Buck and installing him in RF, but frankly I’d be even more interested in the A’s benching Giambi and letting Barton start for at least a month. It seems to me that the A’s have decided they can give either Sweeney or Buck a good, long look in the majors this year, and they’ve picked Sweeney.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 26, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like we are on the same page but I do disagree about Buck's defense
Buck has shown himself to be a good defensive rightfielder. I would like to see the A’s try him out in center but apparently that isn’t an option. What I do object to is starting Davis at center and Sweeney in right, which is why I made the comparison.
If the A’s were to bench Giambi then it would allow Buck and Barton into the lineup. If they don’t then I want to see at least one of them in the lineup regularly, preferrably Buck, with Barton in AAA until another spot opens up, but under no circumstances do I want to see Crosby at 1st. My ideal starters (again if they refuse to bench G) would be Giambi 1B, Cust DH, Buck RF. If they want to give Giambi a night off playing the field then go Barton 1B, Giambi DH, Cust RF. If Barton is in AAA then start Buck at 1st. There is no need for Crosby to ever play 1st for us again.
by DeJay on Jun 26, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd never seen Davis and Sweeney side-by-side before
It appears there is no reason Sweeney should be the starting center fielder over Davis, ever.
A couple of things I’d have no problem with the A’s doing sometime soon:
1) Sending Sweeney to AAA, to see if he can ever develop any power, because if he can’t, he has no future in the big leagues;
2) Benching Jason Giambi so that someone with a future (such as Barton or Buck) can play every day.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 27, 2009 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweeney has a future in the bigs, as a 4th outfielder.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
by OldhamA on Jun 28, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rosters
And the reason that Crosby and Hannahan are playing is that they can handle positions that Buck can’t. If Buck were a 3B (and Hannahan is a very good 3B), or a reasonably good utility IF, or a decent-to-good CF, he’d be in the majors. But he’s not.
Rosters can be rotated around. Often times we’ll play Crosby at first, Hannahan at third, with Giambi at DH and Cust in right field. If we just put Crosby at third or on the bench and Giambi at first, it opens up a spot either in right or at DH for Buck’s bat. That is what I mean by that.
Matt Abedi
by mattabedi on Jun 26, 2009 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting post.
I’m not going to dwell into conspiracy theories or waste speculation on something we’ll never know, but the fact of the matter is this:
1) The A’s are one of the worst offensive teams in the league.
2) The A’s continue to start guys like Crosby, Davis, etc who contribute to the team being one of the worst offensive teams in the league, and who really have no future with the team, or potential for growth.
3) The A’s have viable alternatives (with actual futures with the team) like Buck and Barton on the bench/AAA. Yet the A’s do not seem to want to utilize these players.
All of this makes me very unhappy.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 26, 2009 3:44 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thisssss
Hell, I’d even say Giambi should be seeing pine time right about now, along with Crosby/Davis (Hannahan should play 3B for the time being, he’s the far superior defender and they both can’t hit, although maybe try Patterson there).
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 26, 2009 6:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the summary
This has frustrated me all year.
by faninphilly on Jun 26, 2009 4:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
me too
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jun 26, 2009 5:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
me four
Looks at the lineup… “WHAT THE BUCK!”
by fruitattack on Jun 26, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not knowning either man personally it's hard to make assumptions
but from what we know of their relationship, I’d guess that Beane and Geren are on the same page about Buck.
by OaklandSi on Jun 26, 2009 5:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
buck
has never played consistantly in the masjors. In 2007 he couldn’t play consecutive days because of his wrist. He didn’t get only 285 ABs because of a systematic benching. 2008 was different, but he did spend a lot of time out with injuries. 2009 When he did get consitant time he begged out of a 2nd gsme of a doule header.
I don’t think its a question of can he play in th ebig leagues, but can he play 5 games in a row.
by Future Ed on Jun 26, 2009 6:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
But he didn’t “beg” to not play in game 2. The oblique was tight and he made the call himself that he shouldn’t go. I’m not a Geren supporter by any means but Travis put him in a tough spot because Cust was hurting at that time as well. I think they made the call that due to track record Cust was going to be more available sooner and DL’d Buck. This injury was very minor and as its played out he’s absolutely raked in AAA wasting AB’s and production that could have helped the big club. Does the kid need to toughen up physically and stay out of the trainer’s room? Yes. But injuries are apart of every players career and he’s had his fair share at such a young age. 2007 was just that, 2007. 2008 the same thing. If the A’s truly believe he can be their RF, than play the kid. They aren’t going anywhere anyway. Play him everyday. He’ll figure it out on how to maintain himself physically to play everyday. I find it laughable that many think he’s a bust. Travis has been DL’d 4 times in career. Ryan Sweeney…..3 times. Who has the better career numbers in minors and majors?? I think that’s been heavily documented on this sight and others. Play Buck or package him in a trade. Can’t keep jerking him around.
by bababooey on Jun 26, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you want to put Buck in CF?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 26, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not give it a go?
Play him there in AAA and see if he truly can do it. He can obviously play each corner postion and very well may go back to LF when Holliday is traded. Fact of the matter is that management thinks Buck can’t play CF and thus will continue to keep Sweeney in there everyday and spell him with Davis which is brutal. I don’t give a crap what Davis has done since Buck has been on the DL. He’ll be hovering around .200 again by the All-Star break guaranteed. I think both Sweeney and Buck should play everyday but management has decided he has no chance to play CF and thus stuck in AAA.
by bababooey on Jun 26, 2009 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Play him there in AAA and see if he can truly do it"
Yeah, I’d have no problem doing that in Sacto — with the way the minors are structured, that’s what your farm clubs are there for. And the A’s aren’t doing that, AFAIK. But how many games does he need to play there to “see if he can truly do it?” If he makes a bunch of mistakes in his first week or two, then what? Do you abandon the experiment? Do you keep him in Sacto all season to see if he gets better?
Of course, the A’s could call him up and install him in CF anyway. But it wouldn’t be a big surprise if the pressure of playing CF led Buck to lose some focus on his hitting, and in any case the A’s would be left with a pretty bad OF — Holliday, Buck, Sweeney (because Holliday, Buck, Cust would be unplayable). And degrading the defense would be really bad for the young pitchers.
In any case, I don’t think Buck is a can’t-miss hitting prospect. He started 14 of 17 games at one stretch earlier this season, and was utterly pathetic (.235/.278/.333), even messing up plays in RF and missing bunts/failing to move runners over. SSS, of course, but FWIW he also looked completely helpless, as well. Immediately after that he went back to the bench, played badly some more, then had 2 really good games (1/3 with a BB and a HR, 3/4 with a HR) and went on the DL.
I’d be fine with the A’s calling him up and letting him start for an extended period, but frankly I wouldn’t expect much. From my perspective, it would be more a matter of the A’s not having many other alternatives and not having anything to lose. If he’s been lied to or something, Buck has a reason to be angry, but if he’s just pissy that his .666 OPS hasn’t earned him a starting job in a major league corner outfield position, as far as I’m concerned he should keep his mouth shut and keep up the good hitting he’s doing at AAA.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 26, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points
But he’s not going to bomb in CF. He can play there and play well. Other than the comment in the press about being shocked about the DL stint, he hasn’t said anything publically that would warrant a “keep your mouth shut” comment. A .666 OPS on this team is poor but would warrent consistent playing time on this team. Thoughts about starting the 14 out of 17 are viable but lets pull some other stretches on some other players on the team and I’ll bet they are similar or worse. Buck is the player that needs to play every day when healthy to get the utmost production from him. He’s far from done as a big league player but it may just be for another organization when its all said and done. Better for him, probably not better for the A’s. I can smell another Eithier situation brewing.
by bababooey on Jun 26, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, what you said, and the ironic thing is
Having Buck was likely a key reason they traded Either in the first place…
Also, why can Buck not play CF, but Cust can play RF. I know Cust leads this pathetic offense in HRs, but he should never be in the field.
The OF should be Holliday/Sweeney/Buck, at least until Holliday is traded.
by jakebmill on Jun 26, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cust is acceptable (barely) in RF because it's a less significant defensive position than CF
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 26, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am finding it less and less acceptable with each game/error(s)
But yes, it is a less significant defensive position. The thing is, they wouldn’t even need to play Buck in center with Sweeney around. Just stop putting Cust in RF.
If Giambi is hurting, then bench his ass, he isn’t really helping things anyways. I feel that Cust needs to DH everyday and should never be in the field. If Buck needs a day off, then put Davis in center and move Sweeney over.
by jakebmill on Jun 26, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone knows how he'd do in CF
He’s played 5 games in CF in the majors, and 25 games in the minors. Those AAA games, which were last year, have to be the result of moving around late in games, because his range factor in those games is 1.38, which is about what Cust would do if he played CF (there are no innings played stats for minor league fielding, unfortunately).
A .666 OPS on this team is poor but would warrent consistent playing time on this team.
Well, like I said, I’d be okay with the A’s starting him because they don’t have much to lose, or many good options, but FWIW a .666 OPS is just a shade better than Sweeney (with lower OBP) and 2 points better than Nomar. It’s 50 points lower than Suzuki (who plays a key defensive position) and Giambi (who I think is done and should be benched). In short, a .666 OPS is really bad.
He’s far from done as a big league player
Well that’s good, because he’s hardly even started yet.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 26, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for making my point
Haven’t looked up PA for Sweeney or Nomar but I’m sure Buck’s is lower in each case and he’s better OPS than each. Huh. I’m not saying .666 OPS is good, its dogshit . But in very limited at-bats (some due to DL stint) its better than both of those guys and I’m sure its better than Davis.
Hasn’t started yet due to mostly injury but also a hell of a lot of jerking around playing guys way past their prime in postions where it screws with the line-up and regulates Buck to the bench. Grass is never greener on the other side especially in the Big Leagues but I think for Buck’s case a change in scenery would be welcomed.
by bababooey on Jun 26, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nomar really needs to be released or encouraged to retire
That’s a special case: a formerly-great player who’s (a) old and (b) always hurt. But his role is spot starting and PHing, which is exactly what you don’t want the A’s to do with Buck. So dumping Nomar and replacing him in that role with Buck would be messing with Buck some more.
As for Sweeney and Davis, the difference is that (at least from the A’s’ perspective) they are capable in CF while Buck is not. Buck’s OPS is way lower than any of the guys he’d end up actually replacing iin the regular lineup (Holliday, Cust, Giambi), and only comparable to guys who fill defensive needs that (again, from the A’s’ perspective) he can’t fill.
Again, I wouldn’t mind letting Buck have 4 or 6 weeks in RF or LF to show what he can do in the majors. I’m just a lot less convinced that he’ll succeed than lots of other people here. I wouldn’t just toss him in CF, because (a) putting him an an unfamiliar, key defensive position could mess with his development as a hitter, which is the whole point here, and (b) fielding a sucky defensive outfield would hurt the pitching staff, which is the cornerstone of the team’s future.
So, yeah, let him have his ABs. But I don’t think sending him to the minors was a great injustice, or even that bad an organizational decision. At this point, as I’ve said, I think sitting Barton in favor of Giambi is worse.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 26, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with you
Give Buck the AB’s over a 6 week period. Everyday. No pinch hitting. That’s the only way anyone will find out if he has the salt to cut it in an A’s uniform. If not, package him. AAA is no longer a viable/good option as it was last year with him. Produciton being lost that could greatly benefit the big club who is in dire need of offense from anybody.
by bababooey on Jun 26, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The A's Can Still Keep Davis on The Roster
Many teams have 5 outfielders. Just because Buck can’t play center, doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be up. The A’s could simply call up Buck and send down a player like Hannahan or Barton, who both aren’t offering much to the team. If the A’s needed a centerfielder, they could play Davis. But other than that, Buck should be in the lineup regularily.
Matt Abedi
by mattabedi on Jun 26, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not guarantee Sweeney a big-league roster spot, either.
There’s very little data to suggest he deserves one. His number last year weren’t the norm for him, they were an exception, and even then, they weren’t all that great.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 27, 2009 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
buck is in his 3rd season
he’s had injuries each time and only 600+ career ab’s over that span. he’s supposedly one of the main reasons they traded ethier because he was a similar hitter, they traded bradley (in part to get buck more ab’s), and he was anointed along w/ barton to be the future offense once swisher was traded. He was injury prone in the minors and it has continued since. Bottom line, he has not progress as expected due to injuries, handling by coaches, sparse playing time, etc. He should get a shot, but i’m tired of people having to refer to his barely 1/2 season stats in 07 and sept 08 to justify his upside as a player.
by Asfan4ever723 on Jun 26, 2009 7:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe put cust on the DL
he’s been awful this year, something i think has a lot to do with his back bothering him. give him some time off to get his back better – he’s not helping us much. get buck back in the mix in the meantime and see if he can get anything going.
by guy incognito on Jun 26, 2009 7:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Cust's back might have contributed to some of his poor play
but the change in hitting “philosophy” has a lot to do with it also.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jun 26, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Whoever told him he needs to be more agressive and swing at more first pitches needs to be beaten with a stick. I am of course assuming it is Geren. Even if it is not Geren he should still be beaten with a stick.
by DeJay on Jun 26, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that, too
the combo of the two have made cust pretty crappy this year. i say get his back better (and let buck get some ABs) with a DL stint and find out whoever tried to change his plate approach (hopefully its geren) and fire them.
by guy incognito on Jun 27, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm..
Slugging .421 w/ 13 HR isn’t that “awful”. If he would bring back that OBP, he’d be the same ol’ SpartaCust…..
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jun 26, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.421 SLG is pretty average for most teams
Players with a higher SLG than .421:
Marco Scutaro, TOR
Alberto Callaspo, KC
Marlon Byrd, TEX
Scott Rolen, TOR
A. J. Pierzynski, CHW
Derek Jeter, NYY
Kosuke Fukudome, CHC
Cristian Guzman, WAS
Freddy Sanchez, PIT
Clint Barmes, COL
Shane Victorino, PHI
And tied with Cust at .421…
Juan Pierre, LAD
This is SLUGGING PERCENTAGE, not batting average. Cust at .421 is trash.
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 26, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah....421 is rather low.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 26, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
No one ever seems to respond to my posts that require me to do research. LOL
WordUpThome: THE HEY-DAY OF RONALD REAGAN-O-NOMICS IS A FINE TIME FOR BIRTH, NUMA NUMA DANCE STAR JOBA CHAMBERLAIN WAS ALSO BORN IN 1985
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 27, 2009 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Buck has every right to be angry...
The A’s have been stringing him along for three years now. He has nothing to prove in AAA and should be playing every single day in Oakland. It’s things like this that are driving me nuts with this team right now.
by LVElephant on Jun 26, 2009 8:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Travis Buck is the main reason that Travis Buck
isn’t in the majors. Some feel that he doesn’t get enough PT but you can say for a lot of A’s players over the years. Did Murton really get a shot? Cunningham struggled but did he get a real opportunity either? Rajai has definitely looked better with more opportunities but we aren’t shooting for the stars with any of the guys that I’ve mentioned.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt when you say that Buck might play better (if he played more) but he is not a superstar like many proclaim. His minor-league stats say that he is capable but I don’t feel like the numbers will ever translate to the show. Just my two cents :-)
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 26, 2009 1:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He has an OPS+ of 112 in just under 600 plate appearances
The numbers have already translated to the show
by DeJay on Jun 26, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's heavily weighted toward 2007
when he had an OPS of 130 and a BABIP of .347, which is totally unsustainable. Ichiro’s career BABIP is .356, and Buck ain’t no Ichiro.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jun 26, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me, Buck is representative of the problem the A's have
with many of their young hitters:
Buck could hit .280 in the majors, but he certainly won’t hit .310.
Buck could hit 20 HRs a year, but he certainly won’t hit 30.
Buck could steal 20 bases a year, but he certainly won’t steal 40.
Buck could play a very good RF, but he won’t play a great RF.
Buck could play a very good RF, but he won’t play a very good CF.
You can do similar analysis for Sweeney to show his potential to be an ok fielding CFer or poor hitting RFer, or for Barton to be a 1B who doesn’t give you much power.
Too many guys who have the potential to be good (as well as the potential not to be), but really little potential to be very good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 26, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now what A's fan would not take a
very good RF who hits .280 with 20/20 on our team instead of Davis/Hannahan/filler…
I understand what you are saying, (that we have some young players that might be good but will never be great) but we need players who can bring some thing on both the offensive and defensive side.
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
by adragon on Jun 26, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your stats assume that Buck reaches his potential
in each category, separately. Not likely. More likely he’s a .250/20HR guy, or a .280/12HR guy, or a .260/12HR/20SB guy, etc.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 26, 2009 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any of those would be a hell of a lot better than what we have at the moment
by DeJay on Jun 26, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's more of a statement about what we have at the moment, though,
than it is about Travis Buck’s apparent ceiling.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 26, 2009 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When factoring in defense
he’s easily above average in any of those scenarios you name.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 26, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he approaches his potential in some area, yes, absolutely
There’s also a possibility he hits .235/10HR/10SB because he can’t get on base – that is when he can get on the field at all.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 26, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
Ouch…but right on the head. The more reason to sing Holliday.
by fonz on Jun 26, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really not that into Madonna
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 26, 2009 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how long have you been waiting to say that?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
by micdog2001 on Jun 29, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great comment.
The A’s are going to be mediocre for a really long time unless guys like Cardenas, Doolittle, Weeks, and Carter turn out like Lowell, Youkilis, Pedroia (or better, Utley) and Ortiz in their primes—rather than turning out like Buck, Sweeney, and Barton. I hope the latter three prove me wrong, but it looks increasingly like their ceiling is “mediocre.”
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 27, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
Aside from the increase in slugging, his numbers in 2008 from June 1st onward actually mirror those he put up his rookie year. They are weighted down by two bad weeks at the start of last season.
Matt Abedi
by mattabedi on Jun 26, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a really bad argument....
It makes just as much sense to say that his career numbers are “heavily weighted” toward the non-2007 part of his career when he’s had a ~.255 babip which is also totally unsustainable given the rest of his career. So really his career ops+ of 112 understates his talents because it’s heavily weighted on his unsustainably low babip the past two years. His career babip is .305: very sustainable!
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
by mikeA on Jun 26, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey mikeA good to see you...
when did they let you out?
Anyway regarding Buck,,,none of it matters babip ops+ or any of the rest if a player is injured over and over again. The guy can’t stay healthy.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 26, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring back Buck, Bring back Buck, Bring back Buck
(starts making picket signs)
PREPAREDNESS_Because those goddamn zombies aren’t going to kill themselves
by adragon on Jun 26, 2009 1:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
(starts chanting)
Fire Geren, Bring back Buck! Fire Geren, bring back Buck!
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 28, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
buckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuck
What’samatter Colonel Sanders?
….Chicken?!?
by cityplANner on Jun 26, 2009 2:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
you know, I love you.
It is not [Hawk Harrelson's] fault that his genius goes unappreciated by uncultured louts like you. -Nick
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 26, 2009 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't it be about the defense?
[First post from just subscribed newbie (lurker since beginning of the season) and a first year A’s fan – btw, thanks to all of you who have taught me a lot about the A’s. Reading AN has made this season a lot of fun for me.]
Since all of the hitting sucks, with little bursts from one or another player now and again, shouldn’t the A’s focus be on putting the best possible fielders behind their new pitchers, to give them some confidence? My heart was really sore when another ball dropped in front of Cust during Gio’s start. The guy really needs some confidence, and maybe then he’ll start hitting his corners, right? But he shouldn’t have to pay for both good and bad pitches, at least while he’s learning his chops.
How much worse could Buck or Barton be than – gasp! – Giambi? I mean, if they want the guy in the dugout, let him do the pinch-hitting. Put Nomar back on the DL. After all, he’s still disabled, right?! Get Cust back on the DH. Put Kennedy in RF when Ellis comes back? Or let him play first and put Buck in RF, to stay. Let Hannahan play 3B, .190 and all, unless there’s someone comparable (and Crosby didn’t seem to be able to get it done there). Keep Sweeney in CF. If I hear the radio announcer (I’m a no-t.v. guy, so my view is surely skewed) say one more time, “Rajai Davis got a slow start chasing it down,” I’m gonna cry.
Because the difference between a .235 team and a .245 team (or even a .225) isn’t going to be a big difference in the wins column, but getting all of these great pitchers (and I love each one) running 7 innings a game at 2 runs per would be something to be really proud of, and make for good baseball.
Feel free to let me know where I’m going wrong, here. But you can’t throw these pitchers out there and not back them up in the field. Start there, and hope the hitting spots up now anad again.
by paris7 on Jun 26, 2009 9:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The fly ball adventures to shallow right tonight answered your point nicely, eh?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 26, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the big show
You picked a funny year to become an A’s fan, but there’s always room on this bandwagon.
by Joey C. on Jun 27, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year a friend took me to the fateful pre-break Angels vs. Huston Street disaster
I had a great time at the game, but wow… What were the A’s, a few games out at the time and then didn’t win a game in July? I remember, too, they took out Ziggy (who at the time I think still hadn’t given up a run) for the 9th and Street gave up a few losing runs. That didn’t seem an auspicious time, less so than now if you ask me. But the off-season was interesting, with the new acquisitions (or “disasters,” depending on how one wants to describe them), and before Deut. went on the DL.
Oh, and I have gone to two games in person. My new A’s cap is 2-0. How many people can say that their A’s cap is undefeated? I’ll try to make another game soon.
by paris7 on Jun 27, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Undefeated, you say?
Try to make all of them. For all our sakes.
by Joey C. on Jun 27, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everidge, Buck, Cardenas...bats anyone.
Tommy Everidge should be next. He had 3 hits tonight in Sac—currently he is hitting .350 there.
Stick Travis in right.
At this point I would bring up Cardenas from Midland and his .341 and put him at third. Why not. The offense now brining the pithers down—ask Braden.
Play Buck every day in July, and see what he can do.
I am also VERY, VERY, concerned about Ellis’ bat.
by fonz on Jun 26, 2009 10:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Disagree About Cardenas
At this point I would bring up Cardenas from Midland and his .341 and put him at third. Why not. The offense now brining the pithers down—ask Braden.
Cardenas was batting .385 when we called him up to Sacramento this season. He couldn’t hit in AAA, so we just sent him back down to Midland a few weeks ago. He’s not ready.
Matt Abedi
by mattabedi on Jun 26, 2009 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with not calling Cardenas up to the big leagues,
but his “couldn’t hit AAA” is a very small sample, probably attributable to adjustment.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 27, 2009 6:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buck was slotted to be the everyday RFer
in 2008, but apparently you don’t remember his abysmal start to 2008. Buck himself said it was pressure he put on himself, NOT “his swing”.
Totally, 100% mental. And, he has YET to get rid of that label, IMO. He just doesn’t string together a decent series of ABs.
As was mentioned, 2007 was curtailed due to a wrist injury, NOT because anyone was out to “not play” him.
Travis Buck is a fine outfielder, great baserunner, but he doesn’t look like a major leaguer in many of his ABs, and that’s his problem. There are plenty of AAAA players who simply rip at the AAA level, then flail in the majors, as soon as the scouts pick up their “out” pitch.
That “out” pitch is why the Gio Gonzaleses look fantastic in AAA, where it’s not a requirement, and get roughed up in MLB, where you absolutely must have one as a SP.
The Gio Gonzales’ level of pitching in the PCL is making Buck look formidable. But his head won’t put him in the MLs.
"It is the mark of a truly intelligent person to be moved by statistics. " GB Shaw
by One won lost won on Jun 26, 2009 11:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For anyone who doubts that the A's are pissed at Buck, I have one question for you:
How do you explain the fact that Denorfia was kept on the MLB roster when Buck was eligible to come off the DL? There is no explanation that I can fathom other than management’s desire to teach Buck a lesson (this is alluded to in a post by Mychael Urban). That said, I have a couple major issues with this post.
1. In making the case for Beane’s ego, many of you managed to overlook the unmistakably massive ego of Travis “Fuckin’” Buck. The guy is probably the biggest pretty-boy, self-entitled, narcissistic ball player in the A’s organization.
2. Travis Buck is big fat wimp. The dude has made trips to the DL for shin splints, an oblique strain, a mild concussion/inner ear infection, and a sore thumb – all injuries that catchers, football players, and anyone with two cajones can and do play through on a regular basis.
3. Travis Buck is willing to throw management under the bus to make himself look good. Case in point: Crying to the media about being placed on the DL.
4. Travis Buck is an injury-prone head case, capable of fantastic AND atrocious play, often sprinkled with an injury ready to take the blame for poor play.
by smokelanda on Jun 29, 2009 12:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just curious, smokelanda -
On what do you base the assessment that Buck has a huge ego, is a self-entitled pretty-boy, etc.? Is it based on personal experience? First-hand knowledge? Second hand reports? Inference from things you’ve observed? I’m really just curious.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 29, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's funny that
lots and lots and lots of people on this site are upset with the handling of Outman/other pitchers and deem the medical staff “not cautious enough”, yet when the team does exercise caution, there is an uproar by the same people. I’m probably the biggest Travis Buck lover you will meet. My name is partially after him, I think he’s the bees knees, and I would do naughty, naughty things to him. However, the A’s have not mishandled him in my opinion. He was hurt, so they were cautious with him. Then they got him steady AB’s in the minors. Nothing wrong with that. Now he’s up. Let’s see how he does.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 29, 2009 5:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Do bees even have knees?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 29, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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