What is wrong with Jack Cust?
I love watching A's games, and I love dissecting box scores afterward. And while I do pay quite a bit of attention to some of the more intricate statistics, I rarely check up on season statistics. Today, I did just that. I was quite shocked to see Jack Cust sporting a lowly .760 OPS - well, lowly for him anyway.
So, what's the deal with Cust?
I remember reading stories about how Cust was spending time this offseason training his eyes, and that it would help him see the ball better, help his contact skills and lower is strikeout rates. I also remember reading stories during Spring Training about how A's hitting coaches were working on Cust simply to make more contact and cut down on the strikeouts.Now, I've never really felt that strikeouts were such a terrible thing. There are times when an out can be productive, when moving the runners over, but there are also times when outs turn into double plays, so honestly, I never minded Custs strikeouts - especially when he was getting on base over 37% of the time.
Cust has 65 K through 63 games so far, which is about 13% less than he did last year, when he K'd 197 times in 148 games. Down from 41% to 28%. Good job, Oakland A's hitting coaches, you finally did something right!
Wrong.
His BB% is down, too, to 11.5% from 18.8% in 2008. Cust's attempt at making more contact has taken him away from what he does best - striking out a lot, hitting big homeruns, and getting on base. At .760, his OPS is 91 points less than it was last year, and he's really not helping the team like he did the last two years.
His HR/FB%, which sat around 30% the last two years, is at 16% this year. He's hitting more flyballs and less of them are leaving the park. And while his BABIP is .266, with room for improvement, he likely won't see a huge improvement unless he gets back to what he did in the past.
In my opinion, the A's need to tell Cust to be Cust. Teams have tried to change who he was before, with bad results just the same. If A's coaches keep telling him that strikeouts are bad, a chain reaction happens. With two strikes, Cust begins to reach for pitches he can't do anything with, only to avoid the strikeout. That's why he's hitting all these weak flyballs. In the past, Cust was never a guy who was scared to hit with 2 strikes, and often worked the count. With a full count, he could take a close pitch and either A) take a walk or B) strikeout. In trying to avoid the strikeout, he's just making weak contact and swinging at pitches he can't do anything with.
The Oakland A's, of all organizations, should realize that Custs greatest strength was getting on base and hitting for power, no matter how he goes about doing it. When cutting down on strikeouts, which aren't that bad to begin with, becomes so detrimental to a player's OBP, it's not worth it at all.
6 recs |
128 comments
Comments
Frank Thomas may be a good model for Cust
Big Frank was known for his ‘good eye’, and walked more times than K’ed. At two strikes, he was able to stay alive by fouling off pitch after pitch until he either got a hit or worked a walk. If Cust can learn to do that, he can develop into a great hitter. If not, then I agree with you that it’s not worth tempering with his approach at the plate. Even if you hit .300, you still make outs at least 2 out of 3 times, there is no reason why you have to run down to 1B to make an out.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
by javaball on Jun 21, 2009 2:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thomas had much better contact skills
He finished his career with more walks that strikeouts. I don’t see anyway Cust can do that, and as lenscrafters pointed out below, Cust was the best hitter on the team last year. There’s really no rational defense as to why they decided to meddle with his hitting approach. I don’t think Cust has the tools to be a great hitter, but he was already a very good hitter, so why mess with it?
by NateHST on Jun 21, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing though
Sometimes trying to change a hitter (one who’s already as great as Cust) for the better, while seemingly a noble cause, can have unintended consequences. And I think we’re seeing some of these unintended consequences right now. Trying to make Jack Cust into a Thomas like hitter, in other words changing him into a Hall of Fame caliber hitter, is a goal that’s both foolhardy to attempt and almost destined to fail (because let’s face it, if Cust could hit like that, he would have shown it already). More likely than not, you get these unintended consequences instead. Also like I mentioned below, other teams have already tried and failed to change Cust’s approach before the A’s. This is a case where you accept the guy for who he is (who, I’ll happily repeat, is already a great hitter in his own right).
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 21, 2009 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd never compare Cust to Thomas when it comes to plate eye and discipline
Cust will never be what Thomas was in that regard.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 21, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas was absolutely ridiculous in the early/mid 90s.
I think Joe Posnanski did a piece a while back about how amazingly good/underrated Thomas was back then.
From 1990-1997, he only had two seasons in which his OBP was under .450 (and in those years he had OBPs of .426 and .439). In comparison, the much more heralded Ken Griffey Jr. had only two years in his entire career in which he had OBPs of over .400 (.408 and .402 those years). Not a knock on Griffey, but more of an example of how frickin amazing Thomas was.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 21, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Griffey played CF.
Thomas was awesome though.
by OldhamA on Jun 21, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
apples and oranges, then. But...
…healthy Junior for a decade or healthy Big Hurt for a decade?
It is not [Hawk Harrelson's] fault that his genius goes unappreciated by uncultured louts like you. -Nick
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 22, 2009 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't go wrong with either
But I’d go with Thomas.
He and Belle were the 2 best hitters in the 90s.
by ChuckBudd on Jun 22, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas was the better hitter
But Griffey played good defense at a premium position. It really is a tossup… For what it’s worth, Thomas is 21st on the career WAR (offense only) at 78.7, Griffey is 17th at 83.1 WAR.
During the 90s, Thomas racked up 54.8 WAR, Griffey at 68.6. If Thomas didn’t have to deal with with the positional adjustment, it would be almost identical.
by NateHST on Jun 22, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember travdog bringing this up a while ago.
And salb mentioned this a while back on FK (IIRC, basically that it may not just be statistical noise).
Anyways using Fangraphs data, we can see that Cust is swinging at far more pitches in the zone (71.3% 2009, 62.8% 2008), outside the zone (20.1 2009 15.3 2008) etc, basically far more pitches overall this season than he usually does. Obviously this leads to his walks being down. This isn’t a good thing folks, regardless of what Trainman tells you. Finally, it should be noted that one of Jack Cust’s most important attributes is his OBP, which is currently sitting at a middling (and that’s being nice) .321. Without it, he’d be about as good as Mike Jacobs, who’s not that good. Oh but hey! His strikeouts are down! I guess all the I-hate-strickouts people got their wish.
So what’s causing this crappy performance? It’s hard to say at this point, and perhaps premature to pin it all on Skaalen/Geren. Maybe the back issues is causing Cust so much pain that he just wants to swing at anything to get his at bats over with. Maybe he’ll rebound back to career norms in the second half (hence, a more detailed and conclusive analysis can be done after this season).
Regardless though, I agree with Nate. Changing Jack Cust’s approach, when he was by far the best hitter on the 2008 A’s (in other words, THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH HIM), when previous teams have tried it and gotten bad results, was both stupid, unnecessarily, and a major mistake that this organization shouldn’t/usually doesn’t make.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 21, 2009 2:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's not let Cust off the hook here...
perhaps it was he who made the mistakes.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on Jun 21, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes that could be true too.
Perhaps he personally felt an inexplicable need to swing at more pitches this season. Whatever the reason, I hope he goes back the strickouts galore version of Cust we saw the last two years.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 21, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need to also remember that he didn't make the majors until his late 20s for a reason...
perhaps he’s just not as good as everyone thought he was the last year and a half.
Maybe he’s just regressing to the mean.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on Jun 21, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, not sure I agree with this
He’s had about two seasons under his belt before this one so I think it’s more likely these 200 or so at bats are the aberration rather than those two seasons. Also, his performances the past seasons are more in line with what he’s shown he can do in the minors (high OBP + power). Plus, the reason why he made the majors so late was because of a combination of teams screwing around with him/not appreciating the value of his skill set rather than any personal fault of his.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 21, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My eyeball take is that Cust is simply swinging at a lot more pitches this year
Regardless of what adjustments he wants to make with two strikes, or the A’s want him to make with two strikes, he doesn’t need to swing more before he has two strikes – but it looks to me like he is swinging at more pitches in general, and I’m not really sure why.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 21, 2009 3:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
The story I pulled up the other day only had to do with two-strike situations. I never saw anything about changing his approach aside from that so I don’t know what the deal is with that part.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 21, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe him swinging at more pitches overall is an unintended consequence of trying to change his two strike approach.
Maybe Skaalen decided, oh what the hell, let’s just make him swing at more pitches overall. Who knows.
by Tripp on Jun 21, 2009 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree 100%
The first thing, IMHO, that a batting coach should ask himself before trying to change a 30-year-old ballplayer is “Is it likely that I’m the first one to make these suggestions? If not, why does he do it this way anyway?”
In Cust’s case, you don’t have to have been in the clubhouses to know that he’s been hearing this message his entire playing life. Everyone hates strikeouts, especially strikeouts looking, especially with men on base. They look so passive. Managers hate them, players hate them, announcers hate them, fans hate them, sportswriters hate them. I hate them too, for that matter; they’re painful to watch and very frustrating, even though intellectually I’ve long since concluded that they’re not that bad and you just have to learn to accept them sometimes. You absolutely know that people have been trying to change (or at least modify) his approach his entire career. (And Cust did talk about how Baltimore had tried to get him to make these kinds of changes, but it just messed him up so he had to go back to doing what he knew how to do.)
At least early in his career, that effort to see if he could make adjustments was entirely justified. Strikeouts are not the worst thing in the world, but they’re obviously not a positive in themselves. The inability to modify your approach to get a runner in from 3B with one out is a real limitation to your game. So is allowing the pitcher to get easy 0-1 counts because you’re not comfortable swinging too early in the count. Taking a lot of third strikes because you aren’t good at defending the zone is a true liability. If he can fix his shortcomings without sacrificing his strengths, he becomes that much better a player.
At some point, though, if it doesn’t work you have to step back and say, “OK, we’ve tried, but this particular player can’t make these adjustments. His skill-set just isn’t that flexible, at least not without compromising his strengths. So the question now becomes, Is he good enough as is? Or do we give up and get rid of him?”
Cust’s MLB career was nearly stillborn because most baseball people thought that no, he was not good enough as is. Baseball people tend to discount players – and you can understand why they do this, it’s perfectly natural – who strike out too much, who have “holes in their swing,” who are “guess hitters” or “mistake hitters,” who “can be pitched to.” He was on the verge of giving up and going to Japan when the A’s gave him one final window of opportunity.
The point of this whole screed is this: With every possible incentive to change, with his career hanging in the balance over whether he could make himself the player people wanted him to be (the kind of player they’d give a major league job) instead of the kind of player he actually was, HE WOULD HAVE DONE SO BY NOW.
He can’t do that. So you either accept the bad with the good, or you send him off to someone who is willing to accept that package. Or of course, you try once again to change him, and make things worse instead.
What his is, or has been the past couple years, is a good hitter. Not a great one, but a good one, and those don’t just grow on trees. Especially not in Oakland.
After all that, to be fair, I have to mention one other possibility. Here are Cust’s slash lines since arriving in Oakland:
2007: .256/.408/.504/.912
2008: .231/.375/.478/.851
2009: .230/.320/.434/.754
It’s possible – it’s way too early to say with any conviction, but it’s certainly possible – that he is already into a relatively swift decline phase. He’s only 30, but the slow low-average power guys like him (also called guys with “old player skills”) are exactly the kind of guys that tend to age earlier than others and sometimes drop off a cliff not far past 30. I don’t really think he’ll have a major league job when he’s 35; his margin for error just isn’t that great.
That said, let’s hope he rips the cover off the ball – and draws loads of walks – all summer long.
by Faust on Jun 21, 2009 4:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Your analysis is exactly why I'd move him in the order,
like to the #2 spot, rather than trying to mold him into an RBI guy. Let him be who he is, and do it well, and put him where he is likely to help you by doing what he does well.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 21, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+100000000
Leave him in the #2 spot.
He should get pitcjes to hit if Kennedy is on and Holliday starts hitting better.
In the #3 spot he does nothing to date but a .159 average
by Trainman on Jun 21, 2009 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday is hitting pretty good considering he has minimal protection...
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jun 22, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although
I think Bill James did an analysis a while back and concluded that a spike in walk rate was the first precursor of a swift decline- players who can’t catch up to pitches because they are losing bat speed tend to strike out more and walk more the season before they fall off the cliff. This isn’t really observable with Cust- he just seems to be hacking away a lot more.
by VanderBirch on Jun 22, 2009 3:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
his power numbers are similar for the first half
Pre-All Star
2007 14HR, 40RBI, .563 SLG
2008 17HR, 46RBI, .437 SLG
2009 13 HR, 37 RBI, . 434 SLG with 18 games to go before All-Star
Im not saying he can’t improve but One good hot streak and he exceeds what he did the last few years other than the SLG in 07. He’s doing what he’s always done which is hit half his HR’s in Oakland (39 hm vrs 31 road career), drive some runs in on a bad offense and get a high amount of walks to make up for a bad average.
by OmahaHi on Jun 22, 2009 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those numbers are interesting
It may not be a decline, so much as Cust’s 2007 was unusually good for him, and last year is more representative of what he’ll do the next couple of years. It makes some sense, since pitchers didn’t know what a stupid idea it is to throw him a fastball his first year.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 22, 2009 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of this is probably Cust having a worse year.
And another part of his ratio stats might be because he seems to be platooning less against left handers. If I’m correct about this, he may have stayed in the line-up against tougher lefties more frequently than he did in the past two years.
by LowcountryJoe on Jun 21, 2009 4:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
Geren told Cust at the beginning of the season that he had to make more contact if he wanted to bat higher in the order. That’s why Cust was batting 7th opening night, and now he’s batting 2nd. It should have been the reverse.
Fire Macha Geren NOW!!!
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
by Cheezombie on Jun 21, 2009 5:34 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Cust should only cut down on 2 strikes with less than 2 out and RISP,
but not when there’s a runner on first with one out, even if there are also RISP.
And just for my own personal vendetta’s sake,
Fire Jackie Moore Now! (he’s gotta be working somewhere, right?)
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a major league coach! NL team, forget which one
My favorite Jackie Moore quote:
“The road trip didn’t get off to a well start.” You don’t usually see well/good mixed up in that direction.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and he said,
“It sads me that…” Great use of “sad” as a verb. This is how I evaluate major league managers.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually he’s the Rangers’ bench coach.
by williadc on Jun 22, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said,
a team that was seen playing the Giants recently. :-)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a link to the story that came out in ST
The title of the story says, “Cust trying to cut down on strikeouts,” but the body says Skaalen was happy that Cust was unhappy last year (a season in which he put up a .851 OPS, no less). When your best hitter comes to you and says, “I want to stop swinging so hard to make more contact,” you say, “Hell no!”
by NateHST on Jun 21, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Or you say,
“We don’t look kindly upon guys putting up an .850 OPS – now go sit in the corner with Travis Buck!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 21, 2009 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even high school coaches know this!
My son’s a HS power hitter. He’s also quite patient – he’ll go deep in counts, foul off pitches, etc.
Early in the season, he was hitting for a good average and NO strikeouts, but few HR’s. He noted that most of his outs were weak popus to shallow right with two strikes. He asked his coach what to do, and the coach said:
“You’re not up there to hit singles. You’re up there to drive the ball. So, drive the ball.”
He did just that. Bad news? More strikeouts. Good news? More HR’s, doubles, triples, and RBI’s.
Do you think the A’s would like that tradeoff? Maybe my son’s high school coach should be managing them.
PS in case you’re thinking prospect, the kid also plays defense like Cust. And he’s a red sox fan.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 21, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it okay that I question your parenting skills?
Not criticizing mind you, simply questioning.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jun 21, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey, this is AN
all’s fair in love, war and AN.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 22, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember, kids,
Drinking and being a Red Sox fan just don’t mix.
(Brought to you by M.A.D.R.S.F.)
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume the "D" stands for "Delivering"?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mothers Against Drunken Red Sox Fans
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 23, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine's funnier.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 23, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you sure it doesn't mean dumbass?
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jun 23, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox fan???
You’ve thrown him out of the house, right?
by Faust on Jun 21, 2009 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, the kid was raised in Boston
Give him credit, though, he does believe Ortiz was juicing, stopped juicing, and is back on. And he has Cust on his fantasy team (which leads his league in offense). So he’s not a Red Sox homer, and he does have some love for the A’s.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 22, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus throwing the kid out would cause my sleeping arrangements to change.
you know what I mean.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 22, 2009 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, OK
I wasn’t buying your other reasons, but I can understand your point of view on that one!
by Faust on Jun 22, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for that matter
I was born in Boston myself, although since my family moved to Oakland right around my first birthday, I didn’t become a Sox fan and never even learned to talk Bostonian.
by Faust on Jun 22, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was born in NYC
I got really lucky in baseball because when my folks moved out here they went to giants, not a’s games. so, I was on track to become a giants fan. but then 1970 came along . . .
Ya gotta give me credit, all in all. I have every reason to be a Yankees, Red Sox, or Giants fan. AND . . . I lived in Orange County for 4 years, so I coulda been a slegnA fan. But I got it right.
Go A’s.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 23, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's just Cust
What if it’s not the coaches trying to change him? It’s quite possible that Cust is just trying to do too much and swinging at more pitches. With as horrible as this offense has been all year, he could be trying to carry the team with his bat.
by VV A's fan on Jun 21, 2009 7:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well then why didn't he do that last year?
He was the offense last year.
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
by Cheezombie on Jun 21, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you look right above, there's a link from the SF Gate
talking about how the coaches were working with him to cut down on the strikeouts. Even if Cust was trying to do this himself, the A’s should just stop him, and tell him to swing (or not) away like he did in the past. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it – and it wasn’t broke last year.
by NateHST on Jun 21, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truth is...
It’s not just Cust.
Holliday, Giambi, Ellis (before the injury), and Cabrera are all substantially below either their career norms, their recent performance levels, or both. And it’s not just the ballpark. Kennedy is the only veteran hitter outperforming or matching his past.
by jasonthea on Jun 21, 2009 8:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
passing thought...
….hitting for contact can be good, even for guys like Cust, if it’s situational hitting. When a productive out is to be made, that is far preferable to a strikeout. Unless a runner is stealing second, it’s hard to see when a strikeout is productive.
Yes, some of those big swings can translate into RBIs, but there may be times when a deep fly ball can advance the runner and not be useless. Maybe I’m just being romantic after seeing all the smallball being played in interleague.
…We’re big fans of the “Custian Cycle” at home…walk, single, homer, K. It’s one of my kids favorite things to track during a game — they earn Dibs if they notice it. :P
by HardensGirl on Jun 21, 2009 8:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying hitting for contact is bad
But it has never been, and clearly never will be Cust’s style. If you’re willing to trade fifty on-base percentage points for 13% less strikeouts, you’re crazy. A’s coaches must realize that Cust doesn’t have the skill set to make those changes and still be an above average major league player.
by NateHST on Jun 21, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And remember, kids,
that some of those strikeouts come with 0/1 out and a runner on first, and if he’s going to make an out in that situation, we damn well WANT it to be a strikeout, because it’s the least harmful out he could make. (He’s not going to hit a sac fly to the LF corner)
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong! Cust's long fly out the other day allowed Kennedy to tag up
and go to second…which enabled Bud Black to make the stupid decision to walk Giambi intentionally…which enabled Suzuki to single in the go-ahead run. Score one for contact! And dumb managing.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's going to make an out there I'd rather it be a weak grounder that happens to advance the runner
And as Nico noted, Cust will sometimes hit a fly ball deep enough for an aggressive runner to move up to second.
Yeah, I know the double play is a higher possibility.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 22, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I was, for the record, kidding -
thought it was funny that it happened just this past weekend.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This probably puts me in the minority
But I’d rather see someone hit into a few more double plays because he makes more consistent contact than someone whose outs come more by way of the strikeout. I’ll take my chances with the guy who GIDP a little more because he’s probably going to get a few more hits along the way that even things out.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 22, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, maybe he gets someone over from first once in a while
But Cust is not a consistent opposite field hitter, and they shift him, so I stand by what I said.
I hate grounding into double plays.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 23, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I'm not expecting Cust to be an opposite field hitter at all
Though given his tendency to pull, that does make him a little better naturally at advancing a runner from second on a grounder. ;-)
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 23, 2009 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting a few more hits doesn't even out more GIDPs.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 23, 2009 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It certainly is frustrating.
I touched on this a little while back, and basically it seems he has changed his entire approach and is swinging more frequently, and earlier in counts. It astounds me that a major league baseball team could think that it is possible to make such a major change without screwing up the rest of the legend that is (was?) Jack Cust. It’s incredibly idealistic to think that you can just cut down on strikeouts with nothing else changing, and I hope Custs reverts to his old form, and the A’s never ever do something like this again.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 21, 2009 9:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I don't know how, but I completely missed that post
Didn’t mean to basically plagiarize your whole post; I’ll take this one down if you want me to.
by NateHST on Jun 21, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh no don't worry about it
I enjoy the discussion, you did a great job on this one. No worries.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 21, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was a good post, but so was this one
Plenty of room for both.
by Faust on Jun 21, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
This is a topic that needs to remain at the forefront of Athletics’ consciousness…
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss the days when the coaching staff had less autonomy.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 21, 2009 9:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
With less coaching autonomy, this team could win 116 games!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 21, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no correlation between coaching autonomy-ness and win percentage ;)
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 21, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
link?
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
by Cheezombie on Jun 21, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's Jack Cust, a career minor leaguer
Just don’t expect so much from him and you’ll be fine with his crappy performance
McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there
by streetisclosedin08 on Jun 22, 2009 5:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
ouch
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jun 22, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a career minor leaguer
Because major league teams didn’t realize that baseball players with low BA, high OBP, high SLG and lots of K’s are still really valuable players.
by NateHST on Jun 22, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably also because he couldn't field
Had he been an average defensive player, I’ll bet he would have gotten a better look.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure they're all kicking themselves now, missing out on that opportunity right?
McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there
by streetisclosedin08 on Jun 22, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes they are
You don’t think he would be picked up within minutes of hitting the waiver wire?
by Future Ed on Jun 22, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be somebody off the bench to hit a home run once in a while sure
like Matt Stairs, he wouldn’t be batting in the middle of too many teams orders I can tell you that.
If he was our number 7 or 8 hitter we’d be good but we depend on him for so much and that’s why our offense sucks.
McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there
by streetisclosedin08 on Jun 22, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The club does depend on him too much,
but that’s not why the offense sucks.
I don’t even want to get into why the offense sucks, because there are 40 others of you out there dissecting that frog every day, but it’s not Jack Cust.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess...
in your opinion Adam Dunn should be a career minor leaguer as well….
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jun 22, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, Jack Cust and Adam Dunn, you're making that comparison
Dunn has hit 40 homers in like 4 straight years. What has Jack Cust done to compare to that other than strikeout a ton like Dunn.
McGwire belongs in the Hall so put him there
by streetisclosedin08 on Jun 22, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Walk a ton like Dunn
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not be able to field a position well like Dunn.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jun 22, 2009 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Dunn played in Oakland and Cust in Cincy,
Dunn would be Cust and Cust would be Dunn.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2009 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I would be cust with this conversation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I would be Dunn
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jun 22, 2009 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to go into a diatribe...
about park adjusted figures, OPS+, etc., but i think your post sums it up quite well…
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Joe Morgan's going to think Beane wrote the movie too..." -whitshoes40
"What am I going to do, seriously? Maybe be a bouncer at strip joints. That's about all I'm qualified to do." -Giambi
by ST on Jun 22, 2009 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hit a lot of homers like Dunn
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
by hero66 on Jun 22, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
by hero66 on Jun 22, 2009 11:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
When you refuse to ever hit the "reply" button
No one has the faintest idea what you’re saying “Yes” to.
So you can either use the “reply” button and have people understand you, or you can not use the reply button and make yourself understood by using a bunch more words to explain yourself, or you can do as you’ve been doing and just be annoying.
Sorry to be a grouch, but you do this all the time. You do see the reply link, don’t you? It wants to be your friend! Don’t rebuff it!
by Faust on Jun 22, 2009 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to be a jackass, by the way.
Solace: Law says he's a fourth OFer
PaulThomas: I think Keith Law is only a fourth analyst
by hero66 on Jun 22, 2009 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't mean to be a jackass
Although I may have succeeded despite myself.
That you “always” use the reply button is belied by the very comment I was responding to. As well as this, and this, and this.
I will concede, however, that to find those cases I did have to flit past an even greater number of cases where you did in fact use the reply function. That surprised me a bit, since even before your comment above I had already begun to make the connection “hero66 = guy who often throws an indecipherable comment out to the public at large” in my mind, and my poor booze-enfeebled brain is usually incapable of establishing those kinds of connections without sustained and consistent correlations. But I also know that, when I’m responding to the last comment in a thread, it’s very easy to start typing in the box that’s sitting right there at the bottom rather than hit that reply function first.
So I’ll happily withdraw my snarkiness. Anyway, aside from the fact that you called me a jackass (and since I spoke from annoyance I probably earned that one fair and square), there’s nothing in your tone or substance that I dislike. I just want to know what you’re talking about without working too hard for it, that’s all.
by Faust on Jun 22, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He replies to this, just FYI, but it's in another thread
from four days ago.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
QOTM, really complicated division
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 23, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was all for Cust striking out less
or more accurately, changing his approach with two strikes, but not at this cost. What Cust seems to be doing a LOT more than he did last year is swinging at the first pitch, and that doesn’t make a lot of sense for a player like him.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 22, 2009 1:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Could it be
That the reason cust isn’t doing as well this year is that pitchers are handling him differently? Like throwing more first pitch strikes, inside pitches, offspeed pitches later in the count, etc. And the reason they’re pitching differently to him is that he was really good last year?
If this is the case – and I suspect it is at least part of the explanation – then Cust now has the real job of a major league hitter, which is to adjust to the way he’s being pitched to and make them change their approach again. Then do it again, and again, and again.’
This would also make the change in Cust’s approach understandable. And, if he’s really got the talent, we’ll see his numbers go up as he figures it out.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 22, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm all for Cust cutting down on the strikeouts,
hitting for the same amount of power, walking as much as he did last year, but also hitting .310. And people say I’m unreasonable.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mix in a gold-glove caliber shortstop, and THEN I'd probably be happy with Cust.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 22, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is also fair to say
that his numbers are down because he has been in the #3 hole way too much.
If he leaves him in the #2 hole for a month or two, then we will see if this is one of the reasons.
That is my opinion and I am sure there are those that will disagree.
by Trainman on Jun 22, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cust in the 2 hole is a good idea...
Unfortunately, I have no link to the study, but I do remember that the only place in the batting order with significantly diminished RBI potential (assuming equal plate appearances) is the top spot of the order. If that wasn’t Bill James’ work, it was one of his disciples’.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your use of the apostrophe alone has me impressed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 22, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather he'd have spelled it wrong...
…so I wouldn’t have to pronounce “discipleses” in my head.
I realized I was dyslexic when I went to a toga party dressed as a goat.
by Elvez on Jun 22, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Cust would be GITA?
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jun 22, 2009 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I volunteer to disagree
I don’t think position in the order means diddly squat to a player’s stats. RBIs and the like, yes, but basic rate stats, no. You don’t move a player to a particular slot in the lineup because that slot itself will affect his productivity; rather, you move him to that slot because the kind of player he already is suits what you want from that slot.
All the stories about a player somehow breaking out because he’s “comfortable” with his spot in the lineup are a combination of post-hoc anecdotal justification and small-sample statistical noise.
I do like Cust in the 2-hole though, because I think it does suit what we want from that spot. I like having the higher OBP’s toward the top of the lineup (more ABs for the better hitters, pretty basic).
by Faust on Jun 22, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree mostly
But I think the productivity referred to is team productivity misnamed or misunderstood as individual productivity. Cust walking in 5 or 6 spot likely results in fewer runs for the team as Cust walking in the 2 slot. He still walks, but the potential for a run is directly related to the players behind or in front of him.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on Jun 22, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right on!
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 23, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really understand what this has to do with anything
When he was batting third, he had Holliday hitting behind him. When he’s hitting second, he has Holliday hitting behind him. I don’t know about his splits of hitting in the #2/#3 hole, but I’m sure if there’s a huge difference it’s purely a statistical anomaly.
I agree that if Cust was performance like 2008 or 2007 Cust, then he’d be perfect for the number two hole, or even leadoff; he’s not the ideal man for the 3rd spot in the lineup because he doesn’t make a lot of contact, but he would always walk and hit for power. I guess I just don’t understand why you think he walks less and hits for less power in the #3 hole than the #2 hole.
by NateHST on Jun 22, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trainman thinks that because
the numbers so far this season quite clearly show Cust hitting worse in the 3rd spot.
Hitting 2nd, Cust is .375/.412/1.000 in 17 PA.
Hitting 3rd, Cust is .153/.246/.315 in 126 PA.
Hitting 5th, Cust is .256/.333/.400 in 102 PA.
The difference is dramatic.
Now you may very well argue that’s a small sample and it’s probably just statistical noise, and it certainly doesn’t prove that being 3rd in the batting order causes Cust to hit worse. And I would surely agree with you.
But it’s not hard to see where Trainman is getting his opinion, because simply looking at the season so far and not projecting anything from it, Cust really has hit significantly worse when he’s in the #3 slot.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on Jun 23, 2009 12:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the significance of the numbers is miniscule
you’re right, you definitely need more data about #2. But that will come.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 23, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a poop joke to be made there
But I’ll take the high road.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on Jun 23, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You saw the opening?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 23, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously pitchers make adjustments
And hitters must do the same to stay in the league, but there is evidence that Cust is swinging at more pitches earlier in the count, so I don’t think it’s the league catching up to him, I think it’s just the A’s making him do stupid shit.
by NateHST on Jun 22, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow - Cust has walked in only 14 of 46 games
in May and June, walking more than once in a game only on May 1st (when he walked twice), never since. Since May 1st: 13 games with one walk and 32 games without a walk. Ouch.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 23, 2009 9:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
All of this comes down to situational hitting
OR a lack of it. There are times that even a power hitter should be more concerned with making contact to make a productive out so the team scores a run.
Runner at third with one out….It is more important for Cust to make a smart out than to swing hard and either homer or strike out.
Nobody on and two strikes….don’t just swing to make contact and avoid a strike out.
It’s not about philosophy, it’s about making the philosophy fit the situation.
Maybe this is a flaw in Sabermetrics…I don’t know, but I would much rather take a baseball “professional” that understands that there are times to make a productive out to score a run than the SportsCenter-era player that is more concerned with stats, impressive highlights, etc.
Ground balls to second to move runners to thrid, and sacrafice flies make for boring highlights, but they lead to runs. I only wish the A’s scouted to find these players more often than they do.
by ImissHENDU on Jun 23, 2009 11:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I’ve complained before that Cust is a terrible situational hitter (which, to me, is part of what makes a good hitter GOOD instead of walking a lot and hitting home runs) but it looks like he’s not the only Athletic with that problem. You don’t have to throw away the slugger’s mentality in all your at-bats to become a better situational hitter, either. At least practice going the other way so if you need to, you can.
Actually, I’m more surprised than anything else that he’s got a couple bunts down. If they’re going to play the shift on him that’s a nice way to combat it, but I’m sure other teams will give him the occasional bunt single instead of playing the odds of a homer coming.
As much as people say the sacrifice bunt is bad or moving the runner over is wasting an out, it does work at times and to me it’s better to sacrifice an out to get someone at second with one out or a grounder to the right side to move him to third where one hit (or a grounder or sac fly) will bring him in instead of him staying at first as you hope to get a combination of hits or walks to move him around.
I guess this is part of why I don’t get along with the sabermetric crowd. Different philosophies, and I’ve seen the “walk first” mentality the A’s have fail far too often when they face pitchers with good control and their hitters aren’t good enough to actually HIT the ball consistently.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 23, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I think it's your deodorant but we can just agree to disagree
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 23, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another way to look at it
is that a bad group of hitters cannot make a good lineup, no matter the batting order and the approach.
but I think you’re right, nico, it’s mostly a question of deodorant.
Do you know the way to San Jose?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 23, 2009 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few thoughts (with a few dashes, by request)
One of the great things about Jack Cust’s story was that he was an example of a guy who did things that other teams didn’t appreciate. The A’s were smart and lucky enough to grab him, because they appreciated the things he did well (hit home runs, walk) and could live with his limitations (strikeouts).
What’s frustrating is that the A’s seem to have fallen into the same trap as those other teams.
— Cust, based on the Chronicle story, was asked to cut down on strikeouts and has been trying to do so.
— Cust, based on my observation, is much less patient at the plate this year.
— Cust’s results, thus far, are demonstrably worse. Perhaps he will improve in the second half, as he did last season.
— As Faust said above, there’s no reason to think a 30-year-old slugger is going to be able to transform himself all that much. Cust is what he is.
— I don’t think he’s on a steep downward career path. I think he’s received, and is listening to, bad advice.
by bear88 on Jun 23, 2009 9:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
"if gio would of ptched,he would of pitched shoot outs." - MR.OAKLAND
"Anyone who calls themselves the Angels Angels should have to start over and ride the short bus." -timmeh from McCovey Chronicles
by Cheezombie on Jun 23, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Enough ........
…….. with the saberbabble already. Put simply, Cust is simply a lousy ballplayer.
by Smoky on Jun 24, 2009 7:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This comment makes me pine for saberbabble
and I don’t even especially like saberbabble.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 24, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evidence? Evidence?!
Do you ever watch games or do you spend the time trying to make numbers fit pre-conceived notions? Cust can’t hit, he can’t run, he can’t field, he can’t throw. He can catch – most of the time, but so can my ten year old nephew – most of the time.
As a hitter he belongs on top of the Altamont Pass with all the other windmills. So occasionally he whacks a long ball, and rarely in a meaningful situation. And that’s a ballplayer? In a beer league maybe.
This team will never win with him in the lineup. He’s bad. In the world of tools, he’s a half – tool. He’s one of those special players that makes everyone else around him worse. Getting rid of him would be a classic case of addition by subtraction.
Sure, its a nice story – career minor leaguer makes it to the bigs. And I’m sure that personally Jack Cust is a great guy. Just a lousy MLB ballplayer is all and all the ratios in the world can’t change that.
by Smoky on Jun 26, 2009 8:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ya I do watch games, and no I don't try to make numbers fit these preconceived (one word) notions.
I don’t know what that has to do with anything, but there’s that. Now, onto Cust. Cust hit homeruns and walked all the time before this change in approach. Last year, his OBP was .375, good for 13th in the league and his 33 homeruns were good for 6th in the league. His ability to walk and homer made him a very valuable fielder. Yes, he cannot hit for average or play defense. But he more than made up for these with his strenghts. And his deficiencies made him affordable and undervalued: precisely the type of player the A’s need to succeed.
On a completely related note, have you read Moneyball?
Also, your anecdotal evidence won’t make anyone believe your point. And finally, open your mind to “saberbable” etc. I don’t get how anyone could not buy into basic stats, such as OBP (also known as not getting out percentage, kinda important) don’t appeal to everyone. But just try it.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 26, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My apologies
I was wrong. Cust clearly is a superior major league baseball player. He walks quite a bit. Which accounts for his very high OBP which as we all know is extremely important unless you haven’t read Moneyball, a book which explains why the A’s win most of their games. You cannot hope to understand baseball and practice saberbabble or understand why Jack Cust is such a good baseball player unless you have read Moneyball. .
And…………. he would be a much better major league baseball player if he hadn’t changed his approach which adversely affected his OBP and his other very important numbers, which would also be better if he could field and run faster, although he is already a “very valuable fielder”. I can see that. Anyone can see that.
There it is then. No need to watch the game.
by Smoky on Jun 28, 2009 3:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You know, when you try to insult someone or prove a point,
you should be smart enough to hit the reply button. You are being completely closed minded to everything I have said, so I’m not gonna try again. All I’m gonna say is just open your mind for one second.
he would be a much better major league baseball player if he hadn’t changed his approach which adversely affected his OBP and his other very important numbers, which would also be better if he could field and run faster
Uhh…no fucking shit? If Jack Cust could hit better and run faster he would be better? Wow! You’re onto something!
But seriously. That’s the fucking draw of (the old) Jack Cust. He was undervalued because even though he could run fast or hit for average, he was good because he could get on base. The A’s can’t afford the high average and fast hitters.
Also, when the fuck did I say you don’t need to watch the game? I watch lots of games. Watching one now in fact.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jun 28, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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