2010 Oakland Athletics
by Mr Alex on Jun 14, 2009 3:48 PM PDT
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PrintAfter just watching our cross bay rivals sweep the A's, I started thinking to 2010 and some positives for our A's.
First, the A's have over 30 million coming off the books with the expiring contracts of Holliday (13M), Cabrera (4M), Duke (4M), Giambi, assuming his option does not get picked up (4M), Crosby (5M), Nomar (1M). Even with a few arbitration raises, the A's should shed 25M off the payroll.
The glaring holes for this team are at 3B (where we don't have a long term option), SS (need short term stopgap), maybe an Outfield spot (would love a True Centerfielder). Our bullpen is relatively set with any openings being filled in-house. We have great starting pitching depth and with a year under their belts, our starters should only get better (would love a veteran innings eater giving the young group guidance and giving the A's some flexbility).
If I were Billy Beane, I would make a strong push for Figgins for 3B. He's not a gold glover, but he plays an adequate 3B, is a true leadoff hitter with an OBP over .400, can steal bases and is a threat whenever he gets on. I would give him a 3 or 4-year deal since we don't have anyone in the minors that can handle 3B anyway. Next, I would sign M Tejada to a 2-yr deal. The guy can still hit and can serve many purposes for the A's. One, he is that right handed bat we would need if Holliday leaves.. He is an emotional leader.. Will bring fans to the park.. Will not cost too much.
With Figgins & Tejada, the team will look good but not great. I think the team will still need another BIG piece (possibly a centerfielder) to become a real contender. Who will be that big piece?
The A's should have MAJOR payroll flexibility this offseason and with the starting pitching in place, this team is a few solid moves away from contention. What do you think? What would you do?
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Here are the positions we will have glaring holes next year...
First base, short stop, LF, RF, and CF.
An OF of Cunningham, Buck, and Sweeney flat out sucks. Period. Cust will be a DH.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
Sorry...
Duh… 3B too.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
also, we're relying on an injured player to man 2B
So that means we have glaring holes in every position but catcher.
Seriously bummed.
No thanks on Tejada
Enough of the “getting the band back together” bullshit. We have more holes than the streets of Oakland.
Suzuki at catcher.
Keep Kennedy at second.
Cust at DH.
Rotation should be better after some seasoning this year.
Everything else is wide open, mostly the manager spot.
concocting something witty....check back frequently
Ellis should be back at 2B but Kennedy would be a very nice backup.
by NateHST on Jun 14, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather have Kennedy based on what he’s shown this year so far.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 14, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
small sample size...small sample size..small sample size
People are way too excited about Kennedy. It’s nice he’s having a hot streak, but he’s had a long career to show he’s a mediocre to bad hitter and no longer makes it up with his glove. And he can’t play SS and I doubt he has the arm for 3B, so he’s not a good bench guy. I hope if he’s on the team next year, it’s in AAA.
by Elston Gunn on Jun 14, 2009 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
what about if he stays as a 2B/1B/OF?
That’s versatility and at least a .650 OPS…
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 14, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Nate, dude...
Ellis is not the hitter Kennedy is, he is expendable. They are about equal with the glove, edge to Kennedy on the base paths.
concocting something witty....check back frequently
by OptimistPrime on Jun 14, 2009 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
They are about equal with the glove???
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The...batting glove?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 14, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
That makes more sense.
He certainly wasn’t talking about Ellis and Kennedy being equals in the field.
Ellis is always in the running for a gold glove.
He’s much better with the glove but unfortunately Kennedy is showing he’s much better with the bat.
Yeah I'll go ahead and point out that
Aside from this year and 2002, Adam Kennedy’s bat has never been worth more than 2.9 RAR. Ellis has had some up and down seasons, but a healthy Ellis is likely a much better offensive player.
Defensively, Kennedy has historically been very good. This year, his defense has been worth -4.0 RAR, which is likely just SSS. Ellis’ D has been trending upwards, and if he’s healthy, he’s likely a bit better than with the glove.
A heathy Ellis > Adam Kennedy.
If you really think Adam Kennedy is the player he’s playing like right now, you’re crazy. This performance over a whole season would be a 20 HR player, and that’s ridiculous.
Ellis a better offensive player than Kennedy?
No way. Ellis had one good season, and otherwise his bat has been silent. That one year, 2005, is the only reason his career stats are better than Kennedy’s. But if you look at their careers, year by year, you’ll note that Kennedy has been extremely consistent. Ellis has not, and Ellis the past couple of years has been terrible.
he hasn't been terrible...
and he’s had a significant advantage over Kennedy with the stick. You can’t just look at the raw stats when the Coliseum plays like Petco Norte. Mark Ellis is a better player than Adam Kennedy. It’s not a massive difference (well, if you consider Kennedy’s 2007 an aberration, which I do), but it’s clear.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1443&position=2B
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=19&position=2B
by AgitationStation on Jun 14, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Ellis has had offensive seasons better than Kennedy's second best 2.9 RAR
in three of his six seasons. Kennedy’s offense has been pretty consistently bad. Look, I’m not saying Adam Kennedy is horrible, I’m saying that a healthy Mark Ellis is better than a healthy Adam Kennedy, and if Ellis is healthy coming into next year, he’s the way to go.
Don’t get me wrong, Kennedy has been awesome since he’s come here from the Rays, but he is NOT the player he’s playing like right now. He’s not a .900+ OPS guy. His HR/FB% is about three times higher than his career average, and his BABIP is about fifty points higher than normal, too. He’s going to regress.
and remember, Adam Kennedy was not healthy in '07 or '08.
Now he is.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 14, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
healthy Ellis over healthy Kennedy,
but I don’t think Ellis will be truly 100% until next year…
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 14, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
what's wrong with Tejada?
If the price is right, he’s still got it.
Figgins, on a two year deal (def no more), might not be the worst idea, due to lack of options, but he was terrible in 2006 and 2008. You don’t know for sure what you’re going to get with him.
by AgitationStation on Jun 14, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
My opinion of Tejada is just based on the fact I am tired of bringing in over the hill talent
concocting something witty....check back frequently
by OptimistPrime on Jun 14, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not saying we should bring Miguel Tejada in, but he’s hitting .344 this year. His average has lost 13 points in the last five days, but he’s been the best shortstop in the National League this year.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 14, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Figgins would be a major target for me - he is a very good leadoff hitter
AND he’s versatile enough to play 3B, 2B, or CF. Sound useful?
Don’t be too quick to discount the value of having Tejada, folks, as the annual “veteran clubhouse presence” who, unlike Giambi, Cabrera, etc. has a TON of OVERT spirit, personality, and intensity, which all happen to be things this particular organization particularly needs right now.
Don’t bring Tejada on hoping he’ll be an All-Star SS, but absolutely consider bringing him in for the whole package he brings (including a decent RH bat).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
i'd rather have Tejada at 3B then SS
He’s a really bad defender there now. I think Cabrera’s at least as good overall—if he plays this bad all year, we should re-sign him for cheap.
Tejada at 3rd next year?
Sounds good to me, but depends on the price…
I like Figgins too. In my video game, he’s already been on the A’s for a half a decade. He even hit 20 bombs in 2007, another World Championship year, of course!
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 14, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
No he's not
He scored very well in RZR, UZR, plus/minus, and Chris Dial’s system last year. He’s had ups and downs statistically over the years, but he’s always graded out near average overall. He definitely still looks good to the eye.
by AgitationStation on Jun 14, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
We should re-sign Cabrera if he plays bad all year? Are you crazy?
I’d have packed his bags weeks ago if I was the GM.
was thinking the SAME thing....
CHONE!
ken korach's voice is like peanut butter on velvet, not joe buck's.
What we have and what we need
What we have on the MLB team
C1 Kurt Suzuki
1B
2B Mark Ellis
3B
SS
LF Aaron Cunningham
RF
CF
DH Jack Cust
(Pick 5)
SP Trevor Cahill
SP Brett Anderson
SP Josh Outman
SP Vin Mazzaro
SP Dallas Braden
SP Gio Gonzalez
RP Brad Ziegler
RP Joey Devine
RP Andrew Bailey
RP Mike Wuertz
RP Santiago Casilla
RP Craig Breslow
RP Jerry Blevins
etc…
Now, we have huge holes at 3B, SS, 1B, CF and RF. Everyone we have there now are replacement level. Sweeney is no doing it, Buck is not doing, it, and I am just writing in Cunningham right now assuming he can do it afer his good performance at AAA. Corey Brown is doing well at AA and can play good CF, but being a True Athletic, is injured. Other than him, I am not sure who else we have at hand besides maybe Doolittle in the Outfield. At Shortstop, we don’t have anyone higher than Low Single A, but then we have Coleman and soon Green. At Second Base, we have Ellis, with some good players after him such as Cardenas and Weeks. At 1B, we have Doolittle (recovering from injury) and Carter, and Barton if he can remember how to hit. At 3B, we have no one besides maybe Cardenas if he shifts over, which at this point, looks like the best bet.
So assuming that we are aggressive with promotions, 2010 could look as such;
C1 Kurt Suzuki
1B Chris Carter
2B Mark Ellis
3B Adrian Cardenas
SS Cliff Pennington
LF Aaron Cunningham
RF Travis Buck
CF Ryan Sweeney
DH Jack Cust
Unfortunetly, that is not a winning team. Probably not until 2011, when this lineup might be available.
C1 Josh Donaldson
1B Chris Carter
2B Jemile Weeks
3B Adrian Cardenas
SS Dustin Coleman
LF Aaron Cunningham
RF Sean Doolittle
CF Corey Brown
DH Jack Cust
This is assuming that Coleman plays in Stockton the second half of this year, starts 2010 in Midland with a mid season promotion to AAA, and is ready in 2011. Pretty much rinse and repeat or Weeks.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on Jun 14, 2009 4:18 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Sweeney is a better RF than CF and Buck just seemed to fall apart last year and this year.
I am wondering out of the following teams all in the running now for their divisions, which team needs a LF (Holliday) and maybe a SS (Cabrera). Of these teams, who has a 3B that the A’s would want.
Boston – 1st
Yankees (2GB)
Detroit – 1st
Minnesota (3GB)
Chicago (4.5GB)
Philly – 1st
Mets (4GB)
Florida (6GB) This team still as dreams of winning it all
Atlanta (6.5GB) They believe they are still in the hunt
Milwaukee – Tied for 1st
St. Louis – Tied for 1st
Cincinnati (2.5GB)
Chicago ((2.5GB)
Dodgers 1st
Gnats (7GB)
Also, after your list of SP, that leaves Gallagher and Simmons for a team that needs young pitching like KC and they have a young 3B I have heard many around here talk about in Moustakas or the Pirates with Pedro Alvarez.
3B on the contending teams in the BA top 100 in April are:
Brett Wallace – St. Louis – #40
Matt Gamel – Milwaukee – #34
Josh Vitters – Cubs – #51
Dayan Viciedo – White Sox #61
Matt Domingguez – Marlins # 64
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
3B
viciedo is 5’11" and 240 lbs. wow…he must be a big boy. no strike zone control. he sub 700 ops at AA.
dominguez is 19, so he’s not a near term solution. he’s in his third year of pro baseball and has one year over 700 ops (granted it was 850 at single A), while he’s 669 at high A this year.
just my quick take. the other guys have been beaten to death.
Well, if they've been beaten to death I don't think we want to trade for them, then.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
If they've been beaten to death and they're healthy, wouldn't they be zombies?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
you list leaves off wild card teams
In the nl wild card, the entire nl west is still in it (arizona’s 8 gb so maybe not them) but other than the nationals nobody is out of the wild card yet in the nl.
The al’s a little different with the east having the slight edge but who knows. we still have a month and a half to see who is buyers and sellers.
I’d love to have Moustakas or Alvarez but I think you’re being a little naive thinking that they’ll part with them. It’d take a ton to get one of those guys.
by CliveWarren on Jun 15, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Not being naive at all.
Do I think any of those teams will part with a good 3B prospect. NO. But hey, I thought since Holliday could be on his way this July and we have an abundance of young pitchers why not imagine what we could do.. or actually to be honest.. What BB could do. And I do remember that no one had any idea that BB would part with Cargon and two pitchers for one year of anybody.. but he did. So maybe KC thinks adding two young very promising pitchers and someone else maybe, would be worth it.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
I think Cardenas could be ready to join the A's at some time during 2010
He has nothing left to prove as a AA hitter. He hit badly for 3 weeks in AAA, so he needs to spend some time there, but I’m guessing that the upward cascade of promotions after draftees get signed will push him to Sacramento in a month or so. So he can finish the season in AAA, then probably start there next year.
If he adjusts to AAA pitching, I expect that he’ll be our best 3B option about a year or so from now, unless we sign an older FA. And by this point in 2011 he will be starting in our infield.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
we need to clear the detritus as AAA and the majors. guys either need to move up or make room for the guys coming behind them.
that’s why barton, buck, cunningham and others need to play everyday.
Oh yeah, I don't think anyone in the organization disagrees with that
And I know no one at AN disagrees!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
If Cardenas is our best option at third base, who is the best option at second base? Ellis or Kennedy?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 14, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Eventually (like 2011) it's probably Weeks
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Who?
If you say Sweeney, you’re wrong.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
You are incorrect, sir
If Zonis had said we have a good CF… then he’d be wrong.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I stand corrected.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Why would we do that?
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 15, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not exactly a Coleman fan
Do people really think he’s a long term answer? He still strikes out a LOT.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
Donaldson is struggling at Catcher
Awfully aggresive with Coleman and weeks. It woudl be nice if their performance made it so.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Weeks is doing great in Stockton
He hasn’t missed a beat, even after playing only 19 games last season in the minors. I could see him spending some time in Midland this year after Cardenas is promoted, then splitting next year between AA and AAA, and ending up with the A’s during the first half of 2011. That’s certainly optimistic, but I don’ think it’s farfetched.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I expect Weeks to move pretty quickly
He should definitely be the starting 2Bman in 2011 if all goes well. I wouldnt be surprised if we see him next year. He probably ends this year in Double-A, and I could see him moved up to AAA to start next season, like they did with Doolittle.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
can you qualify the donaldson struggles comment?
I have only heard that his D is improving markedly behind the plate this year.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 14, 2009 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Barton at first?
Carter and Cust at DH with Cust playing right P/T. Or Donaldson/Barton at 1st, Suzuki catching. I see Suzuki catching until Stassi (if he signs) or another prospect (this year or next) makes it through the system. He’s just too good managing a staff. Donaldson is going to have to play 1st or 3rd IMO if he has a major future with the A’s. Cardenas hasn’t been great at SS but he might have to be the answer for the foreseeable future because Pennington isn’t an everyday major league SS.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
You've forgot to mention the part where Grant Green wows the world
and turns into a hybrid of Longoria and Tulo (hits like Longoria, plays SS like Tulo).
I’m banking all of my hope on this outcome.
What about the Bank of Bobby Crosby for 2005 MVP?
That bank robbed me of all my hope.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jun 15, 2009 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Free Agency?
Almost everyone on this team makes the minimum. My point is that we have A LOT of money to spend to even be in the 60 – 70M range. How do we plug some of these holes via free agency? Trades? If we sit back and wait for our prospects to develop we will never get anywhere. Some blossom, some don’t.. There is no way they will all come together at the same time, and by the time some do, our talented pitchers will become free agents and we will be trading them off.
With the talented young pitching and the extra money, we need to shop hard this offseason to make this team better.
Who would you sign?
Way I see it, not a whole lot out there that is worth it.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
I would throw a whole lot of cash at Matt Holliday and see if he'll stay.
I don’t think he will but he’s worth trying to keep to solidify the order long term.
"Or, as Randy Jackson would say: Not feelin’ it, dawg."
-bench-blob- posting virgin.
He won't stay. A team with a greater chance of going somewhere will
offer him a boatload of money. Plus, to be honest, I don’t think he’s worth the money he’s asking for.
go big or go home
save the money from major free agents until after 2010
add in the after 09 money coming off the books, 30 mill in revenue sharing, freed money after 2010 from chavez, ellis contracts.
go after joe mauer and build the team around him. mauer helps the pitching staff and is amonster hitter. Yes, id offer arod money if thats what it takes.
He's hurt every year. He'll have a lot of innings on those knees.
He’s an AWESOME hitter, but he’s not the guy you compete with the Yanks and Sox for.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
They need to get him out from behind the plate if possible
But he’s blocked at 1B. They probably ought to see if they can get a top-quality young SS or 3B plus extras for Morneau, move Mauer to 1B and let him try to play 155 games and see if he can hit .400.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Mauer has a career OPS+ of 135
but he’s frequently injured and already has had worrying knee and back/hip problems.
So, one factor is whether 130 games at C is worth more than 150 or 155 games at 1B, assuming the quality of his hitting stays constant.
Another factor is whether he’d hit better when he wasn’t taking the beating he takes as a catcher.
Though I suppose the aggressive play would be to keep him at C, hope that you can make the playoffs even if he missed 30 games with injuries, and then have him at full strength for the postseason and take advantage of his great hitting at a bonus position then.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
He's just such a damn good catcher, too.
I’d keep him there, but DH him more often to protect his knees.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's true -- it's not a Carlos Delgado situation
Still, that sacroiliac problem might have been a big red flag. I think they’re taking a chance having him catch 120 to 130 games a year.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Basically if I'm the Yankees or Red Sox I go hard after him if he's a FA,
but if I’m the A’s I don’t – some teams can pay a truckload and hope for health; others can’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They can also load talented players on the bench,
including a decent backup catcher, put Mauer behind the plate for 80 games a year (DH or 1B the rest of the time) then catch him the entire postseason and get the benefit of his great bat at C without the risk of having him play there regularly.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
He should invest in those knee savers that Saltalamacchia wears.
I assume I’ve spelt that name wrong, but you know who I’m talking about.
Actually I think that's correct
"A’s baseball….It’s almost better than a stick in the eye." ~ alox
by Gallagher's Watermelons on Jun 15, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
He's really not all that injury prone.
In his full seasons, he’s played in 131, 140, 109, 146. 2007, the season where he played in 109 games, is the only time he’s been on the DL in his time in the Majors, except for the start of this year. He’s been remarkably consistent as a full time catcher with the Twins.
Minnesota will do all they can to keep him
and I bet he’d stay. He’s from the town, he’s a hometown favorite, he’s treated like a god there.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
Aaaaaand we're getting Mauer how?
The Twins will trade him if it comes to it. He’s a hometown boy though so it’s likely he’ll stick around for less than say the Yankees could pay him.
I'll still take a 130-140 OPS+ at 1st
Not as great as it’d be at C, but still valuable.
Never, Never, NEVER give up
Considering he's one of the best hitters in the league,
I’d compete for him. But since he’s one of the best hitters in the league, the A’s probably don’t have nearly enough to offer.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
If the A's are going to take one "franchise player" plunge,
they need to minimize the chance of injury and Mauer’s not the best risk. Not the very worst, but not the best.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Next year is the way to go
I’m not saying this year is over or that we shouldn’t really strive towards 2011, but next year could be even more of a question mark in the West than this year.
I’m not trying to sound like a pompous ass or a know-it-all, but I know someone within the Angels organization who said that they are seriously considering a huge shakeup at the end of the season and a complete startover, basically giving all the young guys a chance to show what they’ve got for a year. That means no intention to resign Guererro, Figgins, or Lackey. Therefore, we need to be aware that next season could be pivotal in determining the order of the West for the next years to come. All in all, Beane needs to field a competitive team for next year, providing a solid corner outfielder, long term 3B, short term SS, and a bullpen guy or two…
what is this "long term 3B, short term SS" stuff?
are we assuming Green is the SS of the future? because Coleman is not a top prospect yet, and there are a lot of questions about whether Green can stay at short. Cardenas is significantly more likely to be the long term answer at 3rd than Green (or anyone else in the system) is at SS.
random trade idea
White Sox Get:
Matt Holliday
Padres Get:
Gio Gonzalez
Aaron Poreda
Matt Sulentic
Jordan Danks
Backend Moneyball movie profits
A’s get:
Adrian Gonzalez
Not sure White Sox are buyers at the moment,
but I guess the AL Central is weak enough that any team still has a decent shot.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm going to sound like such a tard, but
Adrian Gonzalez has been 1B for my video game A’s for three years now.
You know, it’s kind of nice after an annoying loss like today’s, to turn on the PlayStation and see an infield of Adrian Gonzalez, Mark Ellis, Jimmy Rollins, and Chone Figgins in the green and gold. Got Cust in right, Curtis Granderson in center, and a forever young Rickey Henderson in left. The catcher, of course, is me, with a still-productive Frank Thomas at DH.
The rotation is still anchored by Hudson and Zito, but I traded Mulder and Byrnes to the Giants for Tim Lincecum, so he’s the third leg of the Big Five, along with Dallas Braden, and the only one of my longtime players never to have spent even 1 stint on the DL, Rich Harden. (Start laughing now.)
The bullpen is mostly created players modeled after players from my old wiffleball league, but they’re solid as a rock, and they all throw knuckleballs.
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 14, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Adrian Gonzalez would be nice
But then what do you do with Barton, Doolittle, and Carter? First base is weak this year because Giambi has been inconsistent, but first base is certainly a strength in the A’s organization.
Gonzalez is better than all of them, but yeah if you're trading
prospects to fill holes 1B is pretty much the last place you look.
That pitching isn't good enough for AGon.
There’s got to be some elite pitching talent in any Adrian Gonzalez trade. Gio and Poreda are good, but not elite. It’s gotta be one of MAC in the deal, since the Sox have no pitching prospect superior to Poreda.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
slusser says...
“DeRosa might be a consideration this offseason, and Chone Figgins is even more likely to be a free-agent target.”
Are the Angels not going to try to re-sign Figgins?
Seems like they’d have a big upper hand if they tried.
With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery
i think he got it from MLBtraderumors...not sure though
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
Yea but the quote is from the summary that the guy on MLBtr wrote...but i get your point
you wanna see the actual article. lol
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
My quick plan:
1 – Trade Holliday now for Brett Wallace.
2- In the off-season, trade H-Rod, Outman & Sweeney to Milwaukee for JJ Hardy
3 – In the off-season, sign Xavier Nady to a 1-year + 1-year option deal for $8 million.
4- In the off-season, sign Coco Crisp to a 2-year deal to be 4th outfielder for $12 million total (assuming he is cut-loose by the Royals)
2010 Roster:
LF – Cunningham
CF – Brown/Crisp
RF – Nady/Buck
3B – Wallace
SS – Hardy
2B – Ellis
1B – Barton/Doolittle
C – Suzuki/Powell
DH – Cust
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
I don't get AN's obsession with the guy.
Weeks is still the better prospect in my opinion – more athletic and able to play more valuable defensive positions.
Plus on that trade we’d essentially have given up Gonzales, Street and Smith for Wallace, which is a massive loss. I’d rather take the two firsts and have Holliday sulk in LF for the year.
You can't look at it like Gonzalez/Street/Smith for Wallace
Holliday was acquired in the hopes for a possible playoff berth. It didn’t work out. I agree with you that Weeks is unfairly hated by a lot of people here on AN, but Wallace is still a monster bat that’s very close to the Majors, and you can never turn something like that down.
I'd rather take the two 1st rounders than trade Holliday straight up for
Wallace. His bat is good, but I certainly wouldn’t call it ‘monster’, especially as he’s not going to stick at 3B – or if he does stick at 3B he’s going to be a bad defensive one, which is a big no-no in my opinion.
Forget about Wallace and 3B - he almost certainly won't stick.
But his bat is too good. And remember, the A’s might get screwed with the compensation picks because all you ever hear anymore is Holliday and the Yankees, who are playing very well this year.
It is susposed to be a deep draft next year.
So those first rounders could bring in good value.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Jun 15, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Weeks is NOT hated on AN
I think we all like Weeks just fine and think he will make a good, and hopefully very good 2B. We just thought Wallace was a very good bat we should not have passed up. And we are all so desperately wanting a 3B who shows up and can hit. We hoped Wallace would fit that need.
Plus, we are still hurting a bit over not getting Smoak. We NEED big bats.
The way Weeks is hitting now, after a long injury, may prove we were all wrong in drooling over Wallace. I, for one, am perfectly happy to start praising Weeks.
by redtopcowboy on Jun 15, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
If you were the A's GM and Mozeliak offered you
Wallace for Holliday straight up, you would decline? I understand that Wallace isn’t the longterm solution at 3B, but he’s still one of the best bats in the minor leagues, and it’s only for a half season of Holliday that likely won’t result in a playoff berth. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, and you meant that the Cards wouldn’t realistically make that trade.
If you were declining it from our point of view, I’m sorry, but I think you’re crazy. I think he could still fit in our plans – and I would love to have six cost controlled years of a big bat. Let’s say Cust is still around. Doolittle could likely move to RF, so he’s not taking up a LF/DH/1B spot. Chris Carter and Cust and Wallace could fit in the other spots. Voila! You have 100 HR potential from three spots in the lineup. I’m not sure how Wallace would grade in LF. He’s a huge man, but I’ve only heard that he’s quick for his size. The Baseball Cube rates his speed at 57, but that might be due to his 16 SB in college (he’s attempted 0 SB since signing with the Cardinals).
In two or three years, this is what my ideal lineup (after a Wallace/Holliday swap) would look like:
1B – Carter/Wallace
2B – Cardenas/Weeks
3B – Cardenas
SS – Green
LF – Carter/Wallace/Cunningham
CF – Brown/Sweeney/Dixon (Dixon might be a stretch)
RF – Doolittle/Cunningham
C – Suzuki/Donaldson
DH – Cust/Wallace/Carter
I'm with you on this.
Obviously, Wallace is not going to be the long-term answer at 3rd. But I’m still unconvinced that he CAN’T at least be adequate there for a year or two to begin his pro career. He might move to 1st in 2011 or 2012, but by that time, the other positions in the A’s system should be figured out (mainly, Cardenas to 3rd, Weeks to 2nd). I think that Wallace would be fine defensively at 1st, especially with Weeks at 2nd having plus range.
Chris Carter is reportedly fairly athletic for his size…he’s got 7 stolen bases already this season! I could see him getting reps at 1st, DH and the corner outfield spots while he’s young enough to shag some balls and not embarrass himself. Cardenas should be fine at 3rd.
I don’t get that liking Wallace’s bat is somehow a knock on Weeks? I never said anything about Weeks, I’d just still like to have Wallace too if that were possible. Like you said, if you get Wallace in the lineup along with Carter and Cust, you have a lineup that can potentially hit a lot homers for the first time in a long time.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
The more I think on it, yeah, I decline the Holliday/Wallace deal
I really like Wallace.
But it’s time to stop repeating the same damn mistakes. Wallace is not a long term 3B, he’s going to end up at 1B or the OF. You’re trading Holliday for a short term answer at 3B and then hoping that Cardenas can make everything better in two years. And if Cardenas can’t make it happen then Jason Christian is a long ways away. The twisted thing is, if Cardenas can make the transition to 3B then there’s a real good chance he’ll be in Oakland by Opening Day, 2010 so there’s a very strong possibility that Wallace might never play the hot corner in Oakland!
Chasing after Wallace at this point is like trying to win back the girl you never should have blown off to begin with. You need to move on and not make the same mistake with the next girl you fancy.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Why not trade Holliday for Wallace for Wallace's bat
and forget about 3B? Wallace is cost-controlled for 6 years, a right-handed slugger considered one of the better minor league mashers out there. If he mashes at 3B, you’ve won the lottery, but more likely he mashes at 1B, LF, or DH – and this is a problem?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah I'm with you on this (but Wallace is left handed)
His bat is going to be too good to not acquire just because he won’t stick at 3B. I would much rather have a stud offensive prospect than a slightly above average 3B prospect. If you gather so many young hitters and pitchers (which the A’s have done well as of late) then there will be an opportunity eventually to trade some of them for that guy you really want.
He's left-handed? Shame on him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Because someone has to play 3B and I'd rather it not be Hannahan
The A’s have talented players/prospects that can play 1B or LF or DH. Will they be as good as Wallace might become? Maybe not, but Carter and Doolittle and Cardenas and Cunningham all look to be pretty good if they pan out. So if everyone pans out someone rides the bench if Wallace is added to the mix.
My point is if you’re going to address the problem at 3B by trading Holliday, then I think you should actually address the problem by acquiring someone who can play the damn position! Wallace can’t long term and even the advocates for this deal are looking to bump him off the hot corner with Cardenas ASAP.
And if the counter-argument is “well, everyone might not pan out” then I hope Wallace is included in that sentiment.
The monster at the end of this blog.
"So if everyone pans out someone rides the bench if Wallace is added to the mix."
No – someone can be dealt for a SS, or a pitcher, or… It’s not a problem.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nico, you've been saying the A's could ship someone for a SS for going on 2 years now
At this point, you’re going to have to provide the shipping papers before I buy into that line o’ thought anymore.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Could doesn't mean will
My point is that it’s ok to have two good players at a position and not ok to have zero.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I believe the A's are in a "not OK" situation re: 3B and SS
And if you’re going to move Holliday I’d suggest trying to make one of those “not OK” situations into something a little more tolerable.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I wholeheartedly agree
But that doesn’t mean I’d shy away from Wallace if that deal was available and no better one was.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or you could just sign Beltre
Im thinking that three years $42m would do the trick.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 15, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Thats fair
but in 2005 he put up the same wOBA and was still a 2.5 win player. So yeah its an overpay a bit. I suggested high because hes a Boras client who probably wants more money than he got in his last contract and I hate when people throw out lowball numbers. Also it doesn’t make sense that his BB rate which was consistent would just plummet without any increase in his K rate. So Im thinking its kinda fluky. If you can sign him for for less than the $42m I would be all for it. Especially since hes such a vacuum and the same goes for a healthy Ellis you could probably stick Cardenas at short for a year and not have the pitching staff storm BB’s office and hold him hostage till he gets a real SS.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 15, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Also since May 20
there have only been three games where Beltre hasn’t collected at least 1 hit.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 15, 2009 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah...too many good players is a tough problem to have....
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
I don't think where Cardenas could play should be a factor in getting Wallace because:
1) Cardenas still hasn’t proven he’ll be ready by opening day 2010. We still haven’t seen him preform well against AAA pitching.
2) If they A’s do trade for Wallace, then Cardenas could very easily move to SS, where the A’s will also need need a player. In fact, given that Chavez could at least start the year at 3B (before he gets injured again) or the A’s could sign Figgins, at this point it’s more likely for Cardenas to start at SS then 3B.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on Jun 15, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Cardenas could easily move to 2B.
There aren’t scouts saying he can stick at SS and the A’s haven’t given much attention to him playing there, other than including it in the positions he has given a whirl at some point. SS is mostly a hypothetical with him, not a potential reality.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm hoping that the A's forget shorstop with Cardenas and give him...
plenty of reps at 2nd and 3rd for the remainder of his minor league career.
All the indications are that he’ll be a solid defensive 2nd basemen, with a plus bat for the position, while he’d likely be a solid/average defenisve 3rd baseman with an average bat for the position. I can live with either of those scenarios playing out with the next year or two.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
This
Cardenas was actually outhitting Wallace when they were both in AA. Im not sure why one is the answer to our third base prayers and the other isn’t ready.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 15, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
Cardenas is younger than Wallace and has hit much better at AA. And since Wallace is a question mark at 3B anyway, I don’t know why people would be high on Wallace at 3B and not feel even better about Cardenas.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Personally, I'm high on Cardenas
but wouldn’t let Cardenas stop me from acquiring Wallace if the price was right.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What do you consider the right price?
I think that question is the heart of the matter.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 15, 2009 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
It's about the power, I think
People here are specifically lusting after Wallace’s purported power.
But really, the team is just as BA- and doubles-deficient as it is HR-deficient. And Cardenas seems to be a fine prospective supplier of those. The idea that a guy could come up and just flagrantly violate the team policy about not showing up his teammates by hitting above .235 – well, I don’t even remember what that feels like.
When Rajai Davis has a batting average in the top half of your lineup your team sucks.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 15, 2009 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
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