Why is Casilla still in big leagues?
by greenmachine on Jun 10, 2009 5:35 AM PDT
57 comments
Okay, this is not some post to beat down on Casilla/Garcia- just a question posed to those who pay a lot more attention to the details and inner workings of the green and gold than I have time for. I've watched Casilla (who I still resent for lying about his name for so many years), pitch absolutely horrible in several games now and pitched only slightly better in a number of others. The A's were quick to send Dana Eveland down when he struggled and have relegated Sean Gallagher and others to Sacramento until they learn how to pitch again- so why not Casilla? Is there something he offers the team at this point that I'm not seeing? To me, he seems to have absolutely no confidence on the mound and appears lost in every outing.
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Casilla is out of options, I think
While Eveland and Gallagher still have options to burn. But I agree, Casilla has been pitching poorly as of late. And the same applies to Springer. The irritating thing about Casilla is that he pitches well and then gets hurt (happened last year, too). He then comes back from the injury and proceeds to get hit hard.
I would hope that the A’s call up Henry Rodriguez soon.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on Jun 10, 2009 6:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I was wondering the same thing
As far as I can see he has lost movement on his fastball, and the hitters are sitting on it. Frankly I think he is taking up space until Duke comes back. Out of options, DFA and see what happens, the only team that my take him would be Washington.
Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969
by billyball1981 on Jun 10, 2009 6:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Casilla would be taken immediately by a lot of teams.
He can dominate MLB hitters for long stretches of time.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 10, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of options
I don’t really care if he’s out of options. I want him out of this team. I do believe that he’ll be out when Duke returns. I can’t wait, this guy is overrated.
by ATLDuck on Jun 10, 2009 7:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What geren says
Everytime a pitcher is doing badly Geren always say that his velocity is good. Another lame excuse. Cassila is out of options so he would go through waivers for AAA.
by Arcman on Jun 10, 2009 7:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Here's the quote from the Chronicle
Casilla has an ERA of 14.46 since coming off the disabled list on May 15.
“The velocity is there,” Geren said. “He just has not got the outs in awhile.”
Dumb bastards
by Trainman on Jun 10, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
14+ era
daaaammmmm.
could he be still injured, and not admitting it?
by MobiusKlein on Jun 10, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so - he's throwing hard,
just getting lit up when he throws his fastball. The velocity’s there, movement isn’t, location isn’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 10, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see it as a positive development.
Rather than losing 10-5, last night the A’s out cassilla’d the Twins by a score of 2-1 (where a casilla is worth -5 runs simultaneously).
To avoid confusion, I refer to the 29 year old Dominican reliever as Jairiago Garsilla, Castilla, or the Ghost of Xmas Past.
by scromulus on Jun 10, 2009 7:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Billy doesn’t like Caucasians, obviously.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 10, 2009 7:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great point. I remember that BS column a few years ago
If anything Casilla has been a good guy and I believes he participates in the a’s Hispanic outreach to youth program that I have heard on the radio announcements.
by Yellowhorse on Jun 10, 2009 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strike out, mostly
But moves real fast…
by As Fan in the Bronx on Jun 11, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To scromulus and greenmachine:
Can you please get over the use of the fake name? Seriously. It happened a long time ago and has had absolutely no effect on the A’s or you. If the team thought it was a factor that he is a few years older than previously thought, they would surely have gotten rid of him by now. He was young and poor, and desperate to get to the big leagues so he used his cousin’s birth certificate. So what? There are others who have done much worse in this game.
I’m more concerned with the fact that he sucks and can’t get anyone out. The whole Jairiago Casilla thing is just old. It was funny the first 27 times I heard it . . .
"Stanford has no fear of losing versus Cal, as they have done so every year but one for the last 20 years. They are, however, very afraid to get injured and indeed fear for their safety." - Furd Rugby Coach on forfeiting 2001 Rugby game vs. Cal
by oaktownmario on Jun 10, 2009 10:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't...
he’s a damn dirty liar and he smells funny
"If you don’t start concentrating and catching the ball, you’re going to have to deal with my black ass!"- Wash
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 10, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he doesn't smell funny anymore
He suffered from an inherited genetic disorder when he was Jairo Garcia, but it disappeared once he became Santiago Casilla.
by Ray of Lite on Jun 10, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry you didn't appreciate the sarcasm.
I’m happy for Casilla that he was able to get a fair sum of money to play baseball. As far as his name/age goes, in my opinion that doesn’t reflect negatively on him as a person (I would probably do the same thing) and I don’t really think it reflects that poorly on the A’s – it says that they’re going after international talent aggressively more so than it says they didn’t do their homework, or their scouts were wrong. And I’ve never questioned Casilla’s work ethic, sportsmanship or even his talent.
His age does affect him as a baseball player, though. As a 23 year old at Midland in 2006 he had closer potential. As a 26 year old nearing his peak, not so much. Now he is 29 and has been incredibly spotty performance-wise. Since 2008 he’s been about replacement level, and given that a replacement level 29 year old reliever with no options doesn’t have much upside, I doubt he will have much value once he hits his arbi years. If he was pitching this way but was three years younger it would be a completely different story.
So I do think Casilla’s past affects his future, and what the A’s should decide to do with him.
by scromulus on Jun 10, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um age related document issues are very very common for many teams in Latin America.
Especially in the Dominican.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 10, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy it
That’s like saying that a law student who cheats on his exams to pass the bar- but then becomes an excellent lawyer, should be forgiven. Nah, not buying it. If you cheat you way into something- regardless of how rich or poor you are- it shouldn’t be overlooked. How many thousands of other young, poor and highly talented kids are waiting their time and chance. Of course, I don’t scout or recruit the players, so my opinion don’t matter.
The greenmachine
by greenmachine on Jun 10, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with your comparison at all
the bar exam supposedly test’s a person’s legal knowledge and, therefore ability to practice law. If you had cheated in the exam your cheating goes to the essence of being a lawyer (i.e. your qualification). Santiago obviously has/had the requisite ability to pitch in the majors: he could get guys out without cheating and the only way to cheat at this would be to take drugs IMO. His age has no bearing on his ability to pitch in the major leagues, whereas a lawyer’s knowledge of law does. He either can pitch or he can’t, regardless of his age. Sure the A’s deserved to be upset with him at the time it was revealed he had lied about his age because Santiago lied to his employer. But the fact of his age difference doesn’t all of a sudden make him a bad pitcher and it surely doesn’t affect his initial “qualification” to pitch, whereas cheating on an entrance exam strikes at the core of your “qualification.” Just not an appropriate comparison.
And again I pose the question: how has his age affected his performance on the field, or the A’s or the fans? If anything, his higher age makes him less attractive once he becomes a free agent and IF the A’s want to keep him that’s good for the A’s. Of course if he keeps sucking there’s no reason to keep him.
"Stanford has no fear of losing versus Cal, as they have done so every year but one for the last 20 years. They are, however, very afraid to get injured and indeed fear for their safety." - Furd Rugby Coach on forfeiting 2001 Rugby game vs. Cal
by oaktownmario on Jun 10, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the problem with casilla is that he has little control over where his pitches go...
watch zooks set up and then where the pitch goes. he’s just throwing hard and hoping the guy doesn’t hit it or take a walk.
he’s regressing as a pitcher and that’s not good.
by the way, the bar exam, the cfa exam and the cpa exam bear little resemblance to practicing law, investing or being an accountant.
by inbillywetrust on Jun 10, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
as someone who took the bar and practices law, the exam has no relation to the practice of law. I have never been called upon by a client to research a legal issue, prepare a memo outlining my findings, and advise the client of legal options, all within 30 minutes time. And law school sucks at teaching the practice of law as well.
As for Santiago, I think the more important point is what you addressed: he can’t hit his spots.
"Stanford has no fear of losing versus Cal, as they have done so every year but one for the last 20 years. They are, however, very afraid to get injured and indeed fear for their safety." - Furd Rugby Coach on forfeiting 2001 Rugby game vs. Cal
by oaktownmario on Jun 10, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shott and Knott fought. Knott was shot, and Shott was not. Some witnesses testified that Knott was not shot, and Shott says he shot not. Either the shot Shott shot shot Knott, or the shot Shott shot at Knott was not shot, or, Knott was not shot. If the shot Shott shot shot Knott, Knott was shot. But, if the shot Shott shot shot Shott, then Shott was shot, not Knott. However, the shot Shott shot, shot not Shott, but Knott.
Discuss the rights and liabilities of the Parties.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jun 10, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Conclusion: Knott slept with Shott's wife so Shott had a right to shoot Knott.
"Stanford has no fear of losing versus Cal, as they have done so every year but one for the last 20 years. They are, however, very afraid to get injured and indeed fear for their safety." - Furd Rugby Coach on forfeiting 2001 Rugby game vs. Cal
by oaktownmario on Jun 10, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which begs the question....
was it a money shot?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on Jun 10, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i respectfully disagree
if the A’s knew he was 3 yrs older than he actually was, he would have much less room for error and can be less polished than if he was 3 years younger. his skill level made him a great prospect because of how advanced he was for his age; however, since his age was fake, he isnt such a great prospect afterall. if he disclosed his real age, he would have been projected as a serviceable major leaguer rather than a potential closer.
The Not-So-Casual Fan
by rktse on Jun 10, 2009 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Casilla committed fraud on the A's, plain and simple
Maybe lots of players do this, but that doesn’t change what happened: He represented himself as something different, and more valuable, than what he actually was and got the A’s to pay him accordingly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 10, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure the A's knew to an extent
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Jun 10, 2009 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or suspected, maybe.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 10, 2009 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Jun 10, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what?
he lied and not about a cosmetic fact. three years is HUGE in terms of how much a player is worth. okay, the bar exam isn’t perfect, nor would lying about graduating from harvard law instead of dropping out of raritan valley community college be a perfect deal, but it’s similar, and a very big deal. i’m not saying he’s a bad person, but it’s not just a throwaway youthful indiscretion kind of thing.
by Elston Gunn on Jun 10, 2009 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That probably doesn't matter a whole lot unless the A's are thinking about keeping him until he's about 40
Based on performance and health I kind of doubt that’s happening anyway. Besides, it’s not like he’s costing them much in salary.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on Jun 10, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still call him 'Jairo Garcia' just to catch people off-guard.
Anyway…
re: options
This is a perfect example of why I hate the options system. As far as I’m concerned, length of service should be 100% irrelevant. This is the big leagues… allegedly for big boys… put up or shut up. I don’t care if you have 10 years service… if you begin to suck, your ass should be sent down.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
by UncleLeo on Jun 10, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell that to the Yankee's top SS and 3b prospects
who will only get to play because they run out of options.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 10, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees have top 3B and SS prospects?
No, Ramiro Pena does not count. He’s like the Pennington/Petit of the Yanks’ system.
"You end up with a name like ‘Outman,’" he said last week. "What else are you going to do? You’re going to get people out, man." ~ Dallas Braden
by Blicks on Jun 10, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was just an example.
but he will run out of options on the 40 man and will eventually have to be on the active roster or let go.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 11, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no lifetime reserve system anymore, so they can choose to go elsewhere when the opportunity presents itself.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
by UncleLeo on Jun 10, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only because players run out of options are the forced from 40 mans onto active rosters.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 11, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Casilla has shown flashes of brilliance
He was one of the more solid arms in the pen at times last season…
Maybe he just needs to re-figure it out.
It would be a shame to seem him DFA’d and find success somewhere else, although that is inevitable with guys out of options.
witty remark
by dtownmbrown on Jun 10, 2009 10:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me, he always starts the season strong, then as the season progresses, he regresses.
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Jun 10, 2009 1:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Only this year his regression has started earlier.
The Swingin A'zzzzzzzzzzzzz!!
by OakFaninFL on Jun 10, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldda put him on 60 day DL
If he sucks after coming back from 15 day DL, then stay out longer. Plus it frees up a 40 man roster space.
by asfansince1989 on Jun 10, 2009 2:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You ever notice how he is only good when the team is sucking?
And then when things are starting to click he does everything he can to suck.
I miss Chad God
by ChadGod on Jun 10, 2009 3:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah totally except not
Remember the beginning of last year when the A’s were playing really well and Casilla allowed like 1 run before he went on the DL? The A’s were winning then and people wanted him to replace Street in the closer role.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on Jun 10, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was decent this year before the DL
and like last year, he is terrible since coming back
The Not-So-Casual Fan
by rktse on Jun 10, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not like the pattern we've seen with Casilla this year and last.
Like many have pointed out, he starts of the season very, very strong. Then he gets hurt and does not return to the strong form until the start of the next season, only to get injured again.
Also, maybe this perception is all in my head, but he seems to get flustered on the mound very easily and his emotions are very obvious. When a call doesn’t go his way or he walks somebody or gives up a hit, it seems his body language changes and his confidence goes even further out the window and he really starts pressing. It seems to snowball from there. This is the key reason why I would never want to see him as a closer (at least not for the A’s).
Contrast that with Bailey who seems to telegraph the same emotions no matter what.
by jakebmill on Jun 10, 2009 4:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok I just checked his splits and i think i found a solution.
Don’t let him pitch in the following ballparks:
U.S. Cellular Field
Comerica Park
Kauffman Stadium
Metrodome
Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum
SAFECO Field
Tropicana Field
Rangers Ballpark
"It's like déjà vu all over again." -yogi berra
by Cheezombie on Jun 10, 2009 10:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Casilla is my pick for most disappointing player.
I really thought that this would be his year to prove his excellence not another year to prove he’s an inconsistent performer.
by IM4Oakgal on Jun 10, 2009 11:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't give up on him yet
He’s better then that Worse guy I mean Weurtz guy.
by Boss Playa on Jun 11, 2009 12:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If he is out of Options
FINE! Let him sit and warm up the bench for the GOOD members! I can’t stand it when he goes in. If he is just there to hold a place for Duke, whatever… Fine… Just DO NOT LET HIM PITCH!!!!
"He's day-to-day," Geren said. "But aren't we all?" - 5/29/08
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Jun 11, 2009 4:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The reason he is still in the big leagues and on the A's is:
Just to piss me and like minded fans off.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Jul 7, 2009 7:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Casilla has great stuff and could be effective in coming years.
Russ Springer sucks now, and is retiring after this year. If we were to DFA a reliever, I would expect and prefer it to be Springer than Casilla.
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on Jul 7, 2009 8:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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