Adam Kennedy?
by crb29 on May 9, 2009 4:36 AM PDT
53 comments
I know it was talked about in other threads, but I couldn't find another fanpost on this subject and I wanted to create a post to see what everyone thought about the A's signing 2b Adam Kennedy to a minor league contract Friday.
I think it's a interesting/strange trade. I know we need immediate help at the major league level with our infield, but what does this mean for our youngsters? We have Weeks(I know he's not ready yet), Cardenas?, Patterson, and Pennington. BoCro is 29 and they give him chance after chance to suck.
My main question is What is wrong with PETIT? How does AKen help us? I feel like Petit has done well at triple A and is only 24 years old. He's hitting a professional low .250 this year, but that's a small sample size (and still better than Crosby). He has played adequate defense, and can fill the stop gap role until Ellis/Nomar/Chavez return. I don't think of Petit as an answer to our problem, but is Crosby better? I guess it's is just because they signed BCro to a terrible contract. But back to my point, what is adding a declining veteran to our 40 man roster(I assume) going to help our team in the long run?
Does Beane really think we still have a chance to win this year and is trying to help us make the playoffs this year? I don't think Kennedy is the answer. But why add him then? If he would have traded for a outfielder then maybe a Holliday trade is getting set up? I just wonder who the player to be named later is. There is a reason that St. Louis didn't want him, and the Rays have Iwamura and Aybar above him in their depth chart.
Question section
Why did the A's sign Adam Kennedy? When will he play his first game with the A's? Do you think he will be a short term filler, or with our injury history will play the majority of the season? Is this a good or bad move? I just want to get a feel for what everyone thinks. Thanks
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Adam Kennedy is an improvement over Hannahan and Crosby.
and thus he’s a good acquisition..I’m expecting nothing out of the Ellis/Chavez/Nomar tandem. Anything they give is gravy.
Since those two were getting ABs, and even starting as of late, Kennedy is a good thing. And, the Cardinals were stupid to release Kennedy. Lots of players get released who really, really shouldn’t have.
I do think Petit needs more of a shot to prove himself. Or, at least a chance to play full time (whether that be w/ the A’s or in AAA).
Right now, I would be strongly, strongly in favor of playing Kennedy at 2B and Petit at 3B. Kennedy/Petit can probably put up about as much offensively as Hannahan/Crosby, but there is an improvement in defense (Petit > Hannahan defensively, although both are good defenders, Kennedy > Crosby).
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
The move in my opinion seems in a response of two scenarios;
1. The A’s brass feels that Petit, Pennington, Patterson are not sufficent viable injury/ backup replacements so a move to instill a veteran prescence was needed.
2. The veteran signing was needed to create a open competition that would help bring about an outcome where the best performer wins.
"Where's the beef?"
first off, he wasn't signed. he was acquired in a trade
secondly, this in no way affects cardenas or weeks ascension to the majors. kennedy is insurance and a much better option than either hannahan or crosby in the infield.
hell he can hit lead off too. prolly a better option than anything in-house.
I think Kennedy is essentially what Todd Walker was
He’s here for the 5 weeks or so it will take Ellis to get back onto the field. Then if he’s a pleasant surprise, maybe he stays; if not he’s released. Remember that Walker was a big part of the 2005 team in April-May but was released mid-season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
yeah, this sounds most likely to me
and he provides some veteran insurance in case Ellis is gone even longer.
*2007
The A’s had a lot of short-lived cup ’o coffees in 2007. Piazza… Walker…
I will say that the absolute BEST thing that came out of Mike Piazza was that he got injured and Jack Cust was called up.
"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."
by VORP is too nerdy on May 9, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Piazza was signed for $8 million (the offer that Thomas rejected)
he was envisioned to be the starting DH for the entire season. In fact, the A’s offered him 2 guaranteed years (Thomas’ original offer from the A’s). Piazza preferred a one year contract because he wasn’t sure if he’d like being a DH.
Walker was signed to a minor league contract with the understanding that he would make the major league club, as he wasn’t interested in playing in the minor leagues. Even though Kennedy was traded for and not signed, the “temporary” nature of Kennedy’s acquisition seems more similar to that of Walker.
I was so happy when Cust got signed...
I had projected him for .250 with 20 dingers and a buttload of walks, and I not only wasn’t wrong, but he can hit good pitches for dingers, too, not just mistakes.
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 9, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
He seems to have really stepped it up a notch this year at the plate.
Especially in two-strike situations. With the inconsistencies in both pitching and the rest of the offense over the past couple of years, to some extent Cust has become the face of the late-‘00s era A’s.
I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: "What the hell good would that do?"
so who gets DFA'd today?
Copeland – back to the Giants
Davis & Copeland are redundant – pick one
Gray, 27 yo reliever at AAA, according to Slusser the scouts love his stuff, but if he was that great he would be w/ the A’s over Cameron/Giese.
Options for the 60-day DL, unless Ellis, Chavez or Nomar are more seriously injured than we know.
I’ll say Ellis to the 60-day.
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." - Billy Beane
by athleticsBB4life on May 9, 2009 8:42 AM PDT reply actions
Ugh, that sounds reasonable, unfortunately
I do think they’ll DFA Davis when they call up a starter (probably Gio) to fill the 5th slot in the rotation.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
The A's won't need a 5th starter until May 21st,
so maybe for the next 12 days Outman goes to the pen and the A’s carry an extra OFer. That would mean a simple Kennedy for Petit move, which is what I expect. Cabrera, Kennedy, Crosby and Hannahan should be enough right now, especially if Nomar is returning on the 14th (maybe that’s when they DFA Davis).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Outman actually pitched sorta like Gio last night
He had 3 pitches, and actually threw some really good changeups, in addition to getting his fastball by people and throwing some okay sliders. I didn’t see any of the 2nd, so I don’t have an opinion on what went wrong that led to the Rangers scoring, but in the 5th he just lost his command/focus, which is exactly what Gio does, at least once a game.
Gio is still a much better prospect, but last night was actually the first time I’ve been able even to picture Outman as a successful starter.
I’m not in favor of swapping out Petit for Kennedy. I think Petit could be a useful player, much more versatile than Kennedy, and I can’t imagine Kennedy’s better than him at 2nd. Is Kennedy definitely going to be on the 25-man roster, or is there a chance the A’s are going to stash him in Sacramento?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
from my perspective on the third base side
During the second Outman could not throw his offspeed pitches for strikes, and the Blue Jays were sitting on his fastball. I think he also got a little rattled.
He was visbly upset when he was taken out of the game (in the fifth inning he already had thrown 101 pitches). He took off his hat as he came off the field and (from what I saw) threw his hat into the dugout (Brian in 317 thought it was the glove he threw).
Apparently Outman was mad at himself, not Geren,
because he couldn’t get beyond 4.1 IP due to his pitch count. I agree, Nick, that Outman and Gio have a lot in common.
My feeling that Gio could make it as a starter and Outman can’t is that Outman relies more on his velocity to compensate for lack of movement on his fastball. Gio has a true “plus pitch” in his curve – which makes his fastball seem faster – so he does not need to throw hard in order to succeed. He just needs, as does Outman, to throw strikes.
So while both lack the control to be reliable, I like Gio’s potential as a starter better while I see Outman as ultimately being a solid middle reliever.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Maybe I've been watching the wrong games
but if I’d never read any scouting reports on Gio, I wouldn’t conclude, based on the work of his I’ve seen in the majors, that he has a great curveball. I’ve never seen him throw it that often, and I never get that, “Oh, it’s 1-2, here comes the curve!” feeling I used to get with Zito. In the 13th in Seattle he was just going fastball, fastball, fastball, and it’s not good enough to blow by people most of the time.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Outman was throwing a nice change-up at times yesterday.
That seems to be his go-to “out” pitch, I remember a couple of batters being put away with it yesterday. Not sure if that on it’s own will keep him in the rotation for long. Here’s hoping though, because he’s got maybe the best pitcher’s name I’ve ever heard. (Maybe that name has cursed him with some kind of negative self-fulfilling prophecy?)
I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: "What the hell good would that do?"
I think Geren did the right thing in taking him out
despite the effect on the bullpen. Outman said in the Chron story, “I felt like I took myself out of the game, so I was aggravated with myself,” so I think he kind of agreed with Geren’s move, too.
I haven’t seen all of his starts, by any means, but I don’t remember Outman throwing a changeup at all until last night, and he was throwing a really good one last night. Even with a pretty straight fastball, if he has a good change and an okay slider, he could be a pretty good starter. But he has to have better control, both of his pitches and of his emotions.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think he could be a solid #5 starter
With his lack of consistent control, and subsequent 20 pitch innings, he will probably always be a 5 IP pitcher prone to issuing 2-3 BBs and 2-3 ER. As a reliever, he could throw a little harder, use his slider to dominate lefties, and be a Joe Kennedy type reliever – a very good LOOGY who can give you 2-3 IP in middle relief when you need it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Did you miss Outman's last start?
He looked flat nasty for the majority of it.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
All pitchers look nasty from time to time, or they wouldn't be in the big leagues
What separates #1 from #3 from #5 starters is the frequency and sustainability of said nastiness.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think Outman
belongs in pen.
I do not think he can sustain being a starter as second or third time thru the order they have his number.
How about trading them Eric Patterson?
It’s pretty obvious he’s not part of the A’s Plans.
by Colorado Fan on May 9, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
To be honest..
I don’t think Adam Kennedy really is better than Bobby Crosby… of course I’m biased because I’ve watched him put up his worst career years in St. Louis. Twice.
"To this day and dating back 25 years, before every game he plays, Henderson stands completely naked in front of a full length locker room mirror and says, "Ricky’s the best," for several minutes."
by VORP is too nerdy on May 9, 2009 8:53 AM PDT reply actions
I think against RHP, Kennedy's better because he can hit a bit
and he’s solid defensively (in contrast, at 2B, though he’s pretty good overall Crosby really has trouble turning the DP) – and Kennedy can do things so many of our hitters can’t do, such as bunt competently. I’d platoon Kennedy and Crosby for the next month.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think Kennedy is a slight upgrade at the plate over Crosby
and same goes for 2b defense. I like what he did in Anaheim (ok, well not LIKED, but I thought he was good), and he wasn’t terrible for the Cards, though definitely not his former stellar self. I think he and La Russa just clashed too much. Or something.
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on May 9, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree. Like the Cabrera signing, it's nothing more than a marginal upgrade
but all things being equal, marginal upgrades are better than status quo.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
plus now someone else can break a rib or two, and we're covered (again)
"If Bowden was a general contractor, he'd build houses with nine bedrooms, six garages, no bathrooms, and half a roof."
by DyeLongJustice on May 9, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Better now than later
I feel this move is Beane saying lets go for it now instead of waiting for it later. The A’s need to see what they have to compete now not in July when all the players get healthy. As for Petit the scouts found the holes in his swing that is why he had the 1 great first night and now is not hitting. As for 40 man it comes down to a outfielder davis ofr copeland the A’s don’t need both.
I think it takes more time to decide about Petit
but obviously the A’s aren’t interested in giving him more time in MLB at the moment.
Proving It
What I’d say to all this is of Hannahan, Crosby, Petit, Kennedy, Jack Hannahan has proven to be far better at 3rd than any of the others. Frankly, when he came over from Detroit’s AAA team, I thought he was very rough at 3rd, having played split time among all the infield positions except short. But, just like the A’s have a way to develop good pitching, Jack has developed into a superb defensive 3rd baseman. Problem is, with the exception of Pettit, the other 3 haven’t proven they can (still, in the case of Kennedy)
hit ML pitching above .230 clip. I believe Pettit has earned more of a shot than he’s been given. Agree, he has holes in his swing but he’s not going to work them out against AAA pitching. Watching Marco Scutaro last night, I couldn’t help but think about the similarity between Marco and Gregorio. Neither were/are going to be more than a backup player for the A’s. However, Marco has developed into a really good SS/Leadoff. Obviously it helps to have everyone below him hitting .300 but who’s to say Pettit can’t hit that well if the rest of the A’s lineup was a little more consistent?
I am! Just because Petit has NO power
Like Kendall and Pennington, he faces a 7-man infield. Scutaro has some pop in his bat whereas Petit really doesn’t. I think those who say Scutaro isn’t actually a good hitter aren’t up with the times. With Oakland, clutch hits and all he was a .300 OBP guy. But he started walking more in 2006 and has sustained increased patience without cost to his BA. He is now a pretty good hitter -
2006: .266/.350/.397
2007: .260/.332/.361
2008: .267/.341/.356
2009: .260/.400/.439 so far
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Is he a FA?
He might be a FA this off season and wouldn’t it be funny if the A’s sign him and let Cabrerra go. His walks have gone way up the last 2 years and always have hit lefty pitching very well.
Scutaro is not going to continue walking in ~20% of his PA.
And he’d not going to sustain a greater than 100 point jump in OPS for a season either. He’s hot, that’s it.
Marco’s a decent hitter as a shortstop, but if the A’s sign him for what he might command after a career year, they’re idiots.
Baseball isn't magic.
They're not going to sign Scutaro,
but keeping him, instead of Crosby, until both were FAs would actually have been smart.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
First of all, thank you for all the comments,
I feel like I have a better feel for where Kennedy and the A’s are at. Secondly, why is this signing not creating any buzz in the AN community? He was the 2002 ALCS MVP, a main fixture in our nemesis LAAoA, and is a solid 2nd baseman. It may sound like I thought he was a bad acquisition, but really I wanted to get a feel of the AN community. I’m just surprised that his signing/trade hasn’t created any buzz. He certainly played well in his debut, nice defense/clutch hitting. Personally I think he will provide a nice addition for the team in the short term. I just wonder what the front office is thinking as far as long term. (not even considering Kennedy) I know he won’t be with us long term (I’ll eat my words) and if we are going to keep playing at this level, I would rather see young players get experience. Giving up Joe Dillion for Adam Kennedy sounds like a good deal, because I don’t think the A’s brass has confidence in Dillion. So they might as well get an immediate help for our ‘b-leaguered’ team. But who do the A’s have in the minors that will translate to ML baseball? Who do you think will be our next upcoming middle infielder? I know I’m full of questions, but it’s because I don’t have any idea and I would like some help from people that know more. Thank you again.
Never mind the stress here's the Dank ~RIP~Justin Huff
I think the next, and only, upcoming middle infielder for a while
will be Adrian Cardenas, who is likely either Ellis’ or Chavez’ successor. Next after him is probably Jemile Weeks and he’s been way slowed down by his hip injury, to where April, 2011 would be an early timeline for a big league debut.
I think the reason Kennedy’s signing is not creating any buzz in the AN community is that 2002 was 7 years ago.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I remember Kennedy quite well from 2002
but he’s no longer that player, especially since he had a serioue knee injury in 2007. Still, it’s a very inexpensive and solid acquisition, given that Ellis isn’t likely to be back for at least a month.
I really hope Cardenas isn't rushed.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
We would never rush a player just to fill an injured spot
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Signed,
Gio Gonzalez.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Initialed by Trevor Cahill.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Marginally - I think the consensus is
he’ll be lucky to make defensively it at 2B, which is actually a possibility. SS seems like a real stretch, kind of like Swisher or Buck in CF or Barton at 3B.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Some think he'll end up at 3B,
where he would not provide the power you ideally want from a 3Bman but still might be a solid hitter. At 2B, he’d be projected as a real plus hitter for the position but not everyone is convinced he’ll be good enough defensively at 2B. Hopefully he will be.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I understand that his good/great years are behind him,
but it is funny to me that only about 20 people seem interested in a player that is in our starting lineup(from comments). We (AN) focus on our minor league development more, because that is the future of our team and the A’s low budget philosophy, but to me Kennedy is as big a signing as Cabrera. Cabrera created way more buzz. They are both older middle infielders, that played with the enemy, and have had successful careers. Both of them are baseball players that “used to be” good. I understand that off season moves will get more attention because there isn’t any ML baseball being played, but I’m still surprised with the lack of interest. Nico you’re right that Petit has NO power from his stats in the minors, but Kennedy has NO power from his stats as a Major leaguer,(besides one game in the playoffs). I guess I’m just beating a dead unicorn, and I should stop.
Never mind the stress here's the Dank ~RIP~Justin Huff
Kennedy is a stopgap.
For whatever reason, this organization has shown no desire to give Gregorio Petit an extended shot and continue to rely on guys who are always injuried (Chavez, Ellis) without having a solid contingency plan.
Kennedy will be with the team until Ellis comes back, then he’ll probably be waived/DFAd and they’ll try to sneak him back to Sacramento until the next time Ellis is hurt.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
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