Baseball Dealt Another Blow - Manny out for 50
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2009 9:22 AM PDT
Email
PrintIn what is decidedly another black eye for Major League Baseball (and a loss to fantasy teams everywhere), Manny Ramirez has been suspended for use of performance enhancing drugs.
From MLB.com:
Major League Baseball made an official announcement shortly after noon ET.
Ramirez, who turns 37 on May 30, will begin the suspension with Thursday night's Dodgers-Nationals game. He would be eligible to return around July 3, depending on rainouts.
Ramirez -- an 12-time All-Star who immediately became the face of the Dodgers franchise upon his acquisition last summer -- is the biggest name player to be issued a 50-game suspension under the MLB's more stringent drug policy that was adopted in 2006.
According to the drug policy, a player receives a 50-game suspension for a first positive drug test, a 100-game suspension for a second positive test and a lifetime ban for a third positive test. The suspensions are without pay.
I think the Dodgers would rather pay him, and have him on their team for the next few months; he has been a huge part of their early season success.
Bad for baseball.
And as tough as we've had it this week, I think maybe the Dodgers fans are just a wee bit more upset right now.
The A's try to win a game at 12:35.
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He's on your fantasy team, isn't he? :-)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
He's on mine
and I already wanted to blow up my under-performing team. Maybe if Manny had shared what he was on, they’d be doing better.
He's on two of mine
ouch
a ground rule double followed by three unproductive outs, sounds like my sex life - dayzd toe
umm...
there have been a few deaths already this season, one very tragic. This is peanuts.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott
by scatterbrian on May 7, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
My first reaction was
I guess somebody forgot to ship the juice up north.
Look at Ortiz and what he’s become: when they get honest, they get bad. Giambi too, for that matter. This certainly tarnishes both of the Sox world championships, but it will add fuel to the fire of the “everybody does it” crowd. and I’m not sure I disagree any more.
Absolutely
but it will add fuel to the fire of the "everybody does it" crowd.
Hard to refute that argument.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
Frank Thomas never did it.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he was a freak of nature :-)
And we can only name one that we are sure never did.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
Only because he was absolutely vociferous in his opposition to them.
Surely, there were others.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
he's been an advocate for steroid testing since the early nineties.
Yes, you’re technically correct, but…
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think he took them either
but there are many example of people who very publicly opposed something that later were proven to have been themselves involved.
yeah... all the gay bashers in high school
were in the gay clubs three years later!
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Did you welcome them with open arms?
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on May 7, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
umm...
I was one of the gay bashers in high school… until one guy basically dared me to be his friend and slowly showed me that all the stereotypes I had embraced were garbage. That, and he got me into Sonic Youth and The Minutemen, which is a huge favor to do for somebody…
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Major props for that dude...
…and for your willing to open up and reject past prejudices! And for Sonic Youth.
I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I thought: "What the hell good would that do?"
It's tough when almost ALL of the superstars
have been mentioned in conjunction with it. I don’t doubt there are others, but man…none of them surprise me anymore.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
that's true.
doesn’t even raise eyebrows.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
someone hand the red sox nation an asterisk
guys get their late thirties and natural biology would have their performance taper off. yes, every one does it, but that doesn’t soften the damage to his reputation. it’s bad for his legacy, it’s bad for the dodgers and it’s bad for baseball.
i was wrong to do that stuff
exactly
my point being nature would hinder continued production, thus the lure of a lil extra help to keep smashing.
i was wrong to do that stuff
perhaps
Manny is claiming that he has a prescription for medicine that might have resulted in a positive test…not sure how that will fly…but I’m wondering about such a long suspension for a first time testing offense (if this is the first time)
was Paul Byrd suspended for HGH? Was Rick Ankiel suspended?
it is wack
the MLB comes down so hard on these guys when they let it happen for so long. I like Manny (much more now that he’s in the NL) and 50 games is a lot. it is first a offense, second being 100 games, third banned for life.
i was wrong to do that stuff
fifty games isn't a lot at all!
compared the the rewards possible for enhancing performance. if they’re serious about it, they should be extending the punishments
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
well...
there is reason to question how serious they are about it. my opinion is that they wouldn’t care at all if the media hadn’t fueled a public backlash against PED in babseball. it was fine in 1998, but as the bonds era and scandals changed public sentiment, Selig grew a conscience all of a sudden.
tell the dodgers 50 games isn’t much. when you’re talking about a guy liek manny, 50 games can have bearing on an entire season.
i was wrong to do that stuff
it's a lot to the dodgers
but maybe not so much to manny?
i think, given that he may not have taken PEDs, this discussion isn’t germane to Ramirez -
but, if I’m a below league average player, and I want to break into the majors, a fifty game suspension is totally worth the risk, given my increased earnings in the time period before I’m caught – if i’m caught at all…
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
well, yes... of course there's an upside
they don’t do it because it makes them fatter and slower (well, maybe in the twilight of their careers. avoids eye contact w jason giambi)
i was wrong to do that stuff
you're assuming that the future is of greater concern than the present
I’m assuming that isn’t at the forefront of ones mind when one takes PEDs
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember a quote from Carney Lansford many years ago...
…where he said he was shocked as he got older exactly how much harder he had to work after age 30 just to stay in the same shape, and being well over 30 myself I believe that is a natural progression for the human body in general, yet a few years later so many players were actually getting better in their mid-to-late 30s. It just defied logic.
Would it be impossible for someone to improve in their 30s without outside help? I wouldn’t say impossible, but I would question so many players doing it and would say that it isn’t bloody likely.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
ahem marco scutero ahem
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Man, you bring that up every time....
At least come up with some new examples.
(Carlos Pena, etc.)
er, that's twice i've mentioned him
I hardly think that counts as every time?
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
i'm right there too
and it takes me longer to recover from workouts than even 5 years ago at 25. most guys get slower and more brittle as they age, and barry bonds just kept gettign stronger.
i was wrong to do that stuff
that's some daring extrapolation there
Could be that Manny juiced up once he hit LA to try and max out his earning potential.
Could be that Ortiz had a sharp natural decline after spending most of last year injured.
My biggest beef with steroid speculation is: how do you separate drops in performance because a guy isn’t juicing anymore from drops in performance because a guy has just gotten old? We used to see guys dissappear overnight back in the day and it was just because they’d lost that milisecond of bat speed or a mph or two off their fastball. Why does every dip in performance today have to be PED related?
because the players union and mlb are unwilling to take testing and deterrence seriously
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
true, but I still feel it's a little premature to proclaim things like
“the red sox dynasty deserves an * ". Not that you said it or anyhting.
no, I know
my point is, by refusing to pay anything more than lip service to testing, they leave themselves wide open to this sort of speculation, accurate or not
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
agreed, though I suppose I'm more willing to give the benefit of the doubt at first
It’s not like this all isn’t going to be hashed out at some point in the near future.
you have more confidence in that than I do
I suspect they’d quite like to continue to sweep the whole issue under the carpet
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
quote from Manny's statement
“I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.
I await the Boras statement....
“My client couldn’t deal with the pressure of not performing so he made a mistake in judgment, trying to not let anyone down.”
Yet another reason to fucking hate fantasy baseball, BTW.
What’s funny is that nobody is looking at our own team right now and seeing somebody that’s in the Ortiz and Giambi mold..
Is there anybody currently on the A’s that used to be REALLY good, and has fallen off considerably and can’t seem to stay healthy? Hmmmm…..
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Bobby Crosby??
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I said REALLY good.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Hannahan?
Seriously, Mike, we don’t have anyone that’s really good.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I said used to be.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
at the minor league level, anyway
I had read some speculation on this years ago, although pure speculation is certainly not proof
well I hate to say this but...
we have multiple candidates.
On
G
Head Case
Nomah
At least On (short for "On Holliday) is healthy.
OK I'll be blatant.
THERE IS A VERY FUCKING HIGH PROBABILITY THAT ERIC CHAVEZ WAS A PED USER AND IS NO LONGER WHICH IS WHY HE IS FALLING APART NOW AND NOT REALLY A GOOD PLAYER ANYMORE.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Yeah, isn't that covered ground, though, bro?
I know MB’s been talking about it for at least two seasons…
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
and quite frankly, I don't ever remember him being really good.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Cmon, from 01-04 he was pretty much one of the best five 3B in the game.
and that was in his mid 20s.
There’s literally no reason for him to fall apart like he has during his age 27 and beyond seasons. A couple fluke injuries is one thing, but when you can’t stay on the field, well…
For the record, it’s not that I blame him. Were I in the same situation, you had better damn well believe I’d be taking PEDs if it meant I’d be making 66 milliion dollars.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
and that's entirely the problem
this suspension is a JOKE. fifty games???
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
What is it in rugby union, a year for a positive test?
I know Rio Ferdinand was suspended 8 months for simply missing a drugs test. So yeah, 50 games is a little lenient.
Agreed on the morality.
Not sold on the best five third base from 01 to 04.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
name 5 better.
I’d say a tossup between Chavez and Rolen for the best 3B in MLB at that time, considering both offense and defense.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
your parameters make me back off my
offensive-driven mind’s early claim. If we add defense, yes, definitely, he was.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Even just with offense
OPS by year from 01-04
Glaus: .898, .805, .807, .930
Chavez: .878, .860, .864, .898
Rolen: .876, .860, .830, .916
None stands out from the other two, really.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
well, who else?
Rolen
Chipper
(Not Arod— he didn’t become a 3B man until 2004)
Trying to think…… Brosius (No), Lowell (Maybe)— any others? My mind is numb. Comfortably, of course.
my bad on Chipper
2001 was the year he started playing LF
He tore his right shoulder up in high school
and the injury caught up with him. As far as his back is concerned, other hitters have had their careers ruined by back problems, notably Don Mattingly, and I don’t think anyone’s every accused Mattingly of juicing.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I have.
Right now.
Mattingly was juicing.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Crap, well then I guess there's no more doubt about Chavez
On the other hand, if Donny Baseball, used the stuff, then it must be a-okay!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
It's certainly possible, but..
a) He never put up HOF hitting stats. Not that all PED users have, but if all we have is circumstantial speculation, it matters
b) His main injury has been a shoulder that he first injured in high school, and then his back went out. It’s not like he’s had some inexplicable, general malaise. His injured shoulder caught up with him. Though I guess you could hypothesize that PEDs made the shoulder manageable.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
There's a high probability why?
Because he can’t stay healthy?
You’re acting crazy, that must mean that there’s a high probability that you slept an unsavory woman/man and are suffering from a untreated case of syphilis.
Don't sweat it. I'm illiterate.
by methodrampage on May 7, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
My sexual escapades have little to do with Chavez.
and the medication cleared everything up, thank you very much.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
i have a newfound respect for them
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
I'm guessing the Dodgers, at 21-8,
are happier than the A’s, at 9-16, are. The wins gained through cheating (or whatever you want to call it) are in the bank. It’s not like the Dodgers are 0-0 right now. They’re currently running away with the NL West as they prepare to do without their best player for 2 months and then get him back.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes, but we're resigned to sucking (aren't we? ;-))
They are missing their best player, and there is no guarantee that Manny will be Manny after a 2 1/2 month hiatus.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
Sorry, less than 2 months. I can't count either :-)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
1+1+1-3*8=
number of games Manny will play in the next two months
a ground rule double followed by three unproductive outs, sounds like my sex life - dayzd toe
He's going to play -6558 games?
I think you forgot the order of operations.
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
doesn't that equation come out as
2 5/8 games?
is he in the A’s starting rotation?
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
When I heard this news,
I figured, ok, good news for the Giants, Ramirez will be out for the rest of the season.
Then, I heard there was a fifty game suspension.
FIFTY GAMES? see, this is why people continue to take steroids. Fifty games is a joke.Given the chance between playing another two, three years at your peak, and earning millions (or, if you’re a borderline player, just having a couple of years in the majors), WHEN THE RISK IS ONLY A FIFTY GAME SUSPENSION, what are players going to do???
Hell, if I were an agent, I would be making sure that my players realised this.
In athletics, if you are caught cheating, you’re banned for two years. TWO YEARS. that’s a proper deterrent. It’s clear that both the players union and mlb, acting in self interest, are quite content to pay no more than lip service to an anti doping regime.
This is why i’m annoyed about it.
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 9:41 AM PDT reply actions
It's not steroids...
…or at least that’s what Boras, Manny, Will Carroll, and a few others are saying.
"I almost landed in some lady's lap, which was kinda fun.'' -- Swish
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Sorry if my sympathy hasn’t been activated by this terrible news.
"I'm disappointed Ziggy didn't pump his fist towards the sky 100 times and scream like a hooker." ~Nico.
you should see the thread over at mccovey chronicles
say, what’s the german for Schadenfreud?
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Um, let me get my translator out...
{sticks pencil in mouth}
S…c…h…a…
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
oh yeah! thanks for tip!
"I'm disappointed Ziggy didn't pump his fist towards the sky 100 times and scream like a hooker." ~Nico.
No, it's Schadenfreude
In German they spell it correctly.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
The guy has supposedly tested positive for something his doctor prescribed him
not a steroid.
He fucked up and as whatever he took is part of a banned substance then he pays the price.
People here are acting like he did steroids.
He made a mistake.
The penalty is 50 games.
Make a judgement when it comes out what he took.
And you're telling me that you would:
a) let a doctor give you “something” without knowing what it was, especially since you have random drugs tests
b) a doctor wouldn’t be familiar with how drugs react in testing environments
Wasn’t that Bonds’ excuse too? “I didn’t know what they were giving me?”
I’m not saying that Manny took steroids; I simply reported that he’s been suspended for 50 games for testing positive for PEDs. Maybe his story checks out; but again; if I was a professional athlete, I would make extra sure what I was taking wouldn’t put me in a compromising situation accidently.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
This is becoming a bit of an unusual story...
…Will Carroll writes that Ramirez was suspended under 8.g.2 of the Joint Drug Agreement which basically says the the player can be punished at the discretion of the commissioner for a drug that qualifies as “other” …
"I almost landed in some lady's lap, which was kinda fun.'' -- Swish
or I may be misinterpreting some of that.
"I almost landed in some lady's lap, which was kinda fun.'' -- Swish
Can I have more info on that please?
Do you have a BP Subscription?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
go to bp and look at the blog section...it's free
"I almost landed in some lady's lap, which was kinda fun.'' -- Swish
I love you
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
um
love you too?
"I almost landed in some lady's lap, which was kinda fun.'' -- Swish
Thanks Sharon!
Looks like there are some interesting asides to this story…
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
MLB says it was in the PED category, so I doubt it.
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
but MLB would want to cover up the ganja,
and if it’s an 8.g.2, it could be ganja, yet, MLB could still get away with saying it’s a PED suspension.
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I would rather have people know I smoke weed than think I took steroids.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
So, Yahoo says it's a PED of a sexual nature.
Which of the three do you want the world to think it is?
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
In order: MJ, Sex Enhancer, PED
MJ is wow what an idiot, i guess that explains the hair.
Sex Enhancer is a shot to the ego tarnishes everything he has done in the bedroom.
PED tarnishes everything he has done in his career.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
so, he just wanted to swing a bigger bat?
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd laugh if he was smoking ganja AND he was being that effective
at the plate. That’d just be unfair to all the guys that toil away in the minors without quite making it.
Many players (especially in the '70's)
used marijuana and stayed effective, or even perhaps took some benefit from it…
Dock Ellis and Bill Lee are the two obvious examples.
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2009 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
If you overlook the whole
“dead at 63 from liver disease” thing.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes
He is responsible for putting something into his body. Whether he is negligent or did it on purpose, he still pays the price.
People are condemming him before all the facts come out that he’s a cheater because of it. That is what I am getting at. He apparently did not take a steroid. If a doctor prescribed something, he should have checked it out to make sure it was not on banned substances.
I take issue with the fact that people label him a cheater before all the facts.
Like I said, he did something wrong and has to pay the price. Those are the rules but people are acting like he’s an axe murderer. If he had taken steroids or HGH then he’s a cheater.
I say wait until if and when it comes out what he took and then pass judgement.
Further to this
One thing he is guilty of is being really stupid if what he says is true. I am sure if it’s just something in a medication then he will have a list of what is not allowed and that he is negligent for.
I agree that if he were to be guilty of a steroid then he should be banned longer. I just would like to see what in fact he has been banned for and then pass judgment.
my point about increasing bans for PEDs
is not really about Ramirez – it’s about the policy in general. for as long as there’s no effective deterrent to taking them, players will continue to try to gain an edge. Whether or not Ramirez falls into this category or not is immaterial, frankly
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
players have been trying to gain an edge
since back in the day when you had to score 21 runs to win…
there will be more threats to “pure” athletics in the near future, with cybernetic enhancements, implants, and other technological boosts.
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Where's the fun in that?
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously....
…A’s fans need SOMETHING to gossip about, and judge.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
Something that DOESN'T bat for us every night.
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Hahaha...so true.
(sob)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
you don't suppose there's some sort of support group for A's fans, is there?
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
i think it's a flagellation forum
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
So most of the players on the team?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
Well, technically, yes, but...
Define "succeed." --Poppy
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
It is apparently
a woman’s fertility drug (I kid you not)— HEG— used frequently by streroid users to reactivate or reenergizer their testoserone levels once they go off the juice.
So it’s pretty clearly a PED
Clomid
Manny took Clomid.
Which is what you take to restart your testosterone production after a steroids cycle.
There’s no medical reason why he would’ve taken it (unless he was lactating), and it’s well known that the drug is used in conjunction with steroid abuse.
There’s no way he took it by mistake, and that’s why he’s just apologizing and taking his suspension now.
Is there a Dr. stupid enough
in the U.S. to prescribe this med to high profile baseball player for no legitimate medical reason?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
good for me
I can now play Juan Pierre on my fantasy team everyday.
Well, on the bright side we won't have to hear about Brett Farve over and over again in sports news.
On the dark side, we’ll have to hear about Manny over and over again.
Somewhere...
…Alyssa Milano weeps
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong
I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
I have a shoulder, if she wants to borrow it.
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
That unlisted number calling your phone
is Eric Chavez
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
It was Chavy all right.
But he thought he was calling to order one of these. It gets cold on the bench.
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
lol
They say every sin is deadly but I believe they may be wrong
I'm guilty of all seven and I don't feel too bad at all
The plot thickens
UPDATE 2: Two sources confirm for me that Ramirez did not test positive for an anabolic steroid. What the substance was remains unclear. The press release from MLB indicates that it was not a "drug of abuse" or a "stimulant," the other two classes of banned substances. Ramirez’s positive test came during Spring Training, which follows his story that he received the substance from a doctor this January.
UPDATE 3: Ramirez’s statement issued through the MLBPA indicates that Ramirez will not appeal his suspension and that he received the banned substance from a doctor. Ramirez was suspended under section 8.G.2 of the Joint Drug Agreement, which is "other." In his statement, there’s no clear statement that Ramirez ever tested positive. Combined, those two facts point to a non-testable drug, but this is not confirmed. The only other known 8.G.2 suspension was Jordan Schaefer.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
In his statement he released
He said he had been tested 15 times by MLB so if this is true then lets just find out what it is he tested positive for and then people can judge from there.
+1
I mean, I don’t really care if guys wanna roid out of their minds, it’s them and not me.
On the other hand, if you’re gonna pop somebody for 50 games and it’s NOT for steroids, you better damn well tell us what it’s for, MLB.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
see above
HEG— a woman’s fertility drug commonly used by steroid users to reenergize or reactivate their testoserone levels once they get off the juice. Smoking gun, folks.
Considering Manny's off-the-wall personality...
He probably welcomes the time off.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on May 7, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
considering Manny's off-the-wall personality...
I bet dude got a prescription for medical marijuana!
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Considering Manny's off-the-wall personality...
He will become the spokesman for < insert sexual enhancement drug >
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on May 7, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess he'll be eating Top Ramen for the next two months
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on May 7, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
i'm sure the other thirty million acts as some sort of cushion to the blow
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he held out for every last penny (or cent, whatever).
You know he’s pissed that he’s not getting $7m of it.
I wonder what the deal is for Boras.
Does he still get his cut? Or is he out of his part of 7m?
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd imagine that negociations between agent and client are quite one sided
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
In what sense?
As far as I’m aware, the agent tells the player upfront what their percentage will be and then goes out to secure the best deal they can get for their client at the club they want to go to.
In the sense that
I’m sure you don’t see, when a player is going to sign with an agent, the player out negociating someone who is skilled in those things. I’m not suggesting there’s anything untowards about it – I daresay that any agent who tried to rip off his clients would rapidly run out of them
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
They don't rip them off, but I'm sure the players know that
a good agent is worth a lot of money (just look at Julius Peppers for example – his friend is his agent and he’s being laughed at by the league as a result). It’s a beneficial relationship for both parties.
interesting that there's no appeal
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on May 7, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
So Manny took the unclear?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on May 7, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Ahahaahah
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 7, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Awesome
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
We have to remember something
these guys aren’t very bright. They will ALL (all sports, that is) continue to do dumb things, cheat, whatever. Especially when it’s based on greed. The only way this will change is if there is a salary cap and immediate suspension for life. No more messing around with 3 strikes your out. Your’e just out! One strike.
"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." -Jessica Rabbit
by A'sfansince1970 on May 7, 2009 10:32 AM PDT reply actions
I mostly agree with this
Except possibly life for one positive test is a litlte much – i’d be ok with two years
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
No. I think a hard line has to be drawn!
No more messing around. These guys get away with it and it will just continue. I also think there should be a salary cap. Every other sport has one, and it’s damn well time baseball did too! I’m sick of the rich getting richer and spending freely! Maybe the economy tanking and Yankee Stadium and Citi Field sitting empty will spur this on!
"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." -Jessica Rabbit
by A'sfansince1970 on May 7, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
If testing was 100% effective, then yes, a life ban would be appropriate
but it’s not. also, it’s probably illegal to ban someone from working in his chosen proffesion for life.
plus, the soppy side of me that believes in redemptions says we should give them another chance
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
It wouldn't be banning him from his chosen profession.
It would be banning him from MLB. He can still play for Japan or Independent League or whatever. For that matter, he and other banned players can get together and start their own league that allows PEDs.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
I think it's a little unfair to say they're not very bright.
As AIE has been saying, I’m sure they’ve weighed up the consequences of taking PEDS with their support network and made a decision. It’s not like they’re shooting up for the hell of it.
here's the statement
as quoted in MLB Trade Rumors site:
Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was okay to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.
Which doesn't make alot of sense...
…as one would think a list of banned medications would be available and that he and his doctor could work together to make sure that the doctor does not prescribe one of them. If I were a player I’d have a list with me and would say, “I cannot take any of this stuff. We’ll have to work around this list.”.
And while it’s probably not the doctor’s responsibility directly to make sure, one would also think that a conscientious doctor think ahead and maybe ask what might not be acceptable. They do for allergies, and Manny’s a high-profile player.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Or if it's a serious personal heath issue, get Bud to issue a waiver
But all the ambiguity makes it look like hiding something.
Take the list to a pharmacist, too
they probably know a lot more than a doctor about the details of a medication’s chemistry and its relationship to drugs that are on a “do not take” list.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
again.. see above
He knew exatcly what he was doing and what he was taking. The drug he took is commonly used by steroid users to jack up their testoserone levels once they get off the juice. The fact is, folks, these multi-million dollar athletes at the top of the profession are not “dumb” about this stuff— they play dumb when the truth is they are probably involved in a very intricate cat and mouse game trying to cheat— at pretty much all costs— and not get caught.
+ a million
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
bingo!
you nailed it about nine minutes before i did, so when this story breaks nationally, you get 75% of the credit!
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
pssst... story already broke that it was a Sexual Enhancer.
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
dammit, a man can dream, can't he?
REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, Crosby's not gonna improve this year and he'll be released by June... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
By the way, I don't believe that MLB tests for HGH
that would require a blood test, which MLB is not doing
Also, it's really unlikely that a doctor would prescribe HGH to Manny
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
If this is the case
then all these a-holes that call for him to be banned and a refund like Bill fucking Plaschke of the LA Times should retract the shit they are saying.
Do the 50 games and leave him alone
(If this is the case)
If it's on the MLB's list of banned drugs,
then it probably contains some thing or things in common with other PEDs.
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
If its banned then he has to pay the consequences
It should however be explained by MLB (if they are allowed to) to the public as to what it was and the exact nature. If it is a sexual enhancer then he should not be tarred with the same brush as steroid users are.
Don't some banned PEDs interfere with that kind of performance?
so having to take Viagra may be a side effect? Or is that a massive leap of mis-logic on my part.
Probably more massive leap than correct assumption there
But I have no idea.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
that's one expensive erection!
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on May 7, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Larry Bowa on ESPN Radio
commenting and said something like
“I would be really interested to see what it was he took because people look at athletes who took banned stuff and they are ripped, Manny is not ripped”
this is really unfortunate
manny gets a lot of grief from fans, some of it deserved much of it not. deep down i think he has a deep love for the game of baseball and his personality and talent is undeniable. with out a doubt he is one my favorite players of this generation. if he gets banned for viagra or something else that has nothing to do with performance then that’s a real shame. i love watching him work a 2 strike count, best in the game at that IMO.
some of you guys make it sound like he’s a total idiot for not knowing he was taking something banned. i dont’ really see it that way. these guys live and breath baseball everyday, all day. you think he really has the time to keep up with MLBs ever changing list of banned substances? isn’t this something the team should be taking care of or at least overseeing? shouldn’t his doctors be aware of these banned substances? isn’t it entirely possible/likely that MLB doesn’t exactly make this the most straightforward process?
i certainly don’t believe manny cheated to gain an advantage. my opinion certainly and i have little hard evidence if any to back it up but the haters annoy me. until evidence presents itself to prove me wrong i’m sticking with my naive assumptions.
Link on the sexual enhancer
Didn’t see it posted in here, but this is the report on what it might have been:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Also used to raise testosterone levels back to normal after a steroid cycle
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
I guess they are saying this
is what steroid users take to replenish due to what steroid do to body.
Innocent until proven though
well, there's a reason that there's not just PEDs on the list of banned substances
all sorts of masking / recovery agents are on there, too – otherwise it just becomes too easy to get away with it.
It’s not like the list is hidden away somewhere.
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
here's another thing that frustrates me
You have a sport like proffessional cycling, that has a very, very tough, police enforced anti doping system. Accordingly, they catch a lot of people.
Therefore, this leads a lot of commentators to say that cycling is riddled with cheats.
mlb, and, god knows, the nfl, have minimal testing. Accordingly, they catch fewer people, and hence, it’s assumed it’s less of a problem.
Are you seriously telling me that there’s something in the nature of baseball, or gridiron players that makes them inherently less selfish than a cyclist?
Really?
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:35 AM PDT reply actions
I think that most MLB players
are cheating… or figuring out a way to cheat.. all the damn time.
its a superstitous game
guys use pine tar, spitballs, those “energy” necklaces, steroids, HGH, maple bats etc
of course necklaces and HGH aren’t teh same thing, but they both represent a desire to adopt any possible advanage out there
i was wrong to do that stuff
There was a saying in NASCAR.
“If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’.”
by LoneStranger on May 7, 2009 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Well you had people (and still do) dropping dead in cycling because of the side
effects of the drugs they were taking. To be fair to the governing body they’ve really stamped down on it and cleaned up the sport.
The MLB have a problem with PEDS right now and they’re doing all the right things in the media to get on top of the issue, but really do people want to know the full extent of the cheating? I suspect 85% of MLers juiced at some point or other. That’s going to taint the game beyond belief.
As for the NFL, well you’ve just got to look at the size of the guys, of course they’re juicing. As long as there are bone crunching hits I don’t think the fans care.
yeah, I agree with that -
I just get a little annoyed when certain sports are branded as ‘dirty’, whereas others don’t, when really it’s a case, not of measuring how many people take PEDs, but of how many people get caught
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I've been brought round to that way of thinking by a certain hot friend of mine.
She was a junior cyclist, used to cycle for GB and understandably is still crazy about the sport. Everytime I used to put down cycling she put me in my place – i.e. that every sport is dirty and at least cycling is trying to do something about it.
Her "hotness"
played no part in your conversion?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
O/T Today's lineup
with Sweeney down order
Am I the only one
who is wondering if a players physical health is being compromised by a work place drug testing program? I’d like to know if Manny has a valid medical reason for taking whatever substance he is accused of taking. If he does, then MLB needs to revise its policy and delay the suspension.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
It has occured to me.
Same goes for the Olympics. Athletes cannot take certain cold or flu medications when they have the cold or flu. To me that’s just wrong and there should be some system where athletes can still get legitimate medical attention without screwing themselves in the process.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
there are other formulations that will cure those things that don't include steroids
there are exceptions, of course – frintstance, emergency asthma inhalers are ok, i believe
It's never too soon to jump to conclusions
by alea iacta est on May 7, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
That rule isn't for steroids, I think it's for stimulant decongestants like pseudoephedrine
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Like Alain Baxter being stripped of his bronze medal because he took some
medicine for his cold that happened to have a banned substance in it. Ridiculous.
While I have never been one to insist that Manny "must" be taking...
…in fact I was more ready to give him the benefit of the doubt over most other players, but I didn’t bat an eye when I first read the story, either. I wasn’t surprised at all… for whatever that’s worth.
I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup
Steroid question
If someone took steroids from October through December, would the PEDs still be testing positive in March? Insofar as I know, it’s an on-again, off-again thing. So someone who had it down to one steroid treatment a year (in the fall) could continue to use steroids - albeit on a partial basis - and still get away with it. But I don’t know medicine and I oculd be wrong.
However, if that’s the case, and if Manny was taking a drug to help his body recuperate from steroids, it would appear that he’d found a loophole in the whole testing regimen which would have given him an edge for the past several years, even during the testing years.
Would love to know if this scenario makes sense.
It ranges from 4-16 months depending on what steroid is used.
Eveland rocks! Eveland rocks! Somewhere Drew Carey just smiled.
Testing is done year round though.
No advantage.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
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