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The decision to tear down the 2006 team?

O.K. right now it appears to me that the decision to tear down the 2006 A's has put the team in the basement. 

First, the case of the manager. Macha is back in baseball and is winning. Another coach off that team Washington is in first place. Why exactly did the GM dump Macha and bring in Geren. This was obviously the first mistake.

Second, the decision to get rid of Milton Bradley. BTW the A's had a winning record when they DFA Bradley in 2007. Why? How did that work out for the team- bad. If my memory is correct, the OF was crowded with the rise of Cust and Buck. Bradley was seeing his playing time reduced and snapped. Obviously, the decision to go with Buck over Bradley has not led to more victories on the field. However, if Bradley was such a major disaster in the clubhouse, why not wait to make a legit trade as opposed to just dropping him out of the blue for nothing.

Third, dumping Swisher and Haren. They were relatively low-paid young guys. Neither had been health risks. Why trade them? The players brought in especially in the case of Swisher have not made up for the value of a top 5 ace starter and a decent everyday outfielder. I would much rather have Swisher than R. Sweeney. The pitchers received from Chi. have been busts as well. As to the crop brought in for Haren there are some good players but Haren is an ace and his value to a team was an enormous cost. There is no reason to believe that he would be putting up great numbers for the A's in 2008, 2009.

Trading Harden, Scutaro and Gaudin overall low-cost players for little in return.

The promotion of Suzuki and the dropping of Kendall from 2006 has been a good move but it would most likely have occurred in time anyway, as Suzuki was a rising star in the system.

Also, not signing Zito was a good move but I don't think the A's had much of a choice with the cash the Giants shelled out.

Obviously, guys like J. Payton, Thomas and Loiaza whom are mostly out of the game right now would have been gone anyway and could have been replaced. 

Adding a veteran DH to the mix each season with the core group of guys from the 2006 season would have made the A's a more successful team.

I still don't quite understand why the GM felt the need to blow up a successful, generally young team. I didn't agree with it in 2007/08 and I still don't.

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My take:

Mistakes:

  • Firing Macha – seemed like it had to do a lot with Beane’s personal relationship with Macha and the politics of Kendall/Kotsay “having Beane’s ear.”
  • Scutaro – he’s simply better than Crosby, as well as cheaper, and is exactly the kind of undervalued player the A’s should be keeping, not dumping.

Non-Mistakes:

  • Bradley – c’mon. The A’s needed to keep a guy who can’t stay on the field and had worn out his welcome and then some?
  • Haren – the A’s got a king’s ransom for Haren. Anderson alone may make that trade worth it, and he’s far from the only key piece the A’s got (Carter, Gonzalez, Cunningham).
  • Swisher – Swisher really isn’t that good and the chance to get De Los Santos and Gio Gonzalez was too good to pass up.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 30, 2009 9:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree on all except the Macha part... and even then I don't disagree.

- Macha didn’t seem to be liked by his players, but a manager should be like a parent… a parent and not a friend. From what I’ve read the “Swingin’ A’s” didn’t like Dick Williams, either. At least at the time.

- The Scutaro trade was a HUGE mistake, IMHO. He was gonna get a big raise. BFD! He was/is worth every penny, and we got squat in return.

- Bradley. Can’t stay healthy. That alone makes his value less than worthy.

- Haren. Great trade, though I’m not convinced the complete tear down had to happen. But, as long as it did, this was a steal of a trade when looked at in a long-term context.

- Swisher… great guy… entertaining guy… ala Eric Byrnes… can pull off the occasional great and critical play or hit… not that great a player consistently.

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup

by UncleLeo on May 30, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm, hindsight is 20/20

I wasn’t here back then but I’m willing to bet that most if not all of AN were indifferent or even happy when Macha was fired. Regardless, it wasn’t and still isn’t a big deal, at least with regards to team performance. Even now, I find myself not caring about the decision to replace Macha with Geren.

Scutaro’s sudden resurgence last year and particularly this year was entirely unpredictable (wtf is up with him suddenly being a walking machine?).

by Tripp on May 30, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, we were all happy

we also were all expecting to see Ron Washington managing the team.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on May 31, 2009 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Scutaro decision

was simple at the time.

The A’s did not want to pay a lot for a backup infielder. That Backup Infielder would have to be either Scutaro or Crosby. Crosby was already under contract, and no one wanted him. Therefore, Scutaro went.

Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.

by Zonis on May 31, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's how I remember it also... money over baseball concerns.

This, in part, is part of why I have developed the opinion that the team has come to using the money excuse as a crutch. Scutaro’s contract wasn’t going to be that big, and he had already been way underpaid for quite some time and earning every penny of what he was due to get.

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup

by UncleLeo on May 31, 2009 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most were happy to see Macha leave.

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup

by UncleLeo on May 31, 2009 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't remember you as particularly fond of Scutaro...

I remember you as rather disparaging, actually. My memory may be bad, but I know that most of the “stat” guys (among whose ranks I don’t count you) were never fond of Scoot.

"I’m actually a disgrace to myself right now." - Sean Gallagher (quoting me after a night out on the town)

by FoolshGame22 on May 31, 2009 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most "stat" guys saw him as a solid backup ...

someone who could hit enough to not be a problem and play multiple positions tolerably well but wasn’t good enough to start.

That continued to be the case through last year … he’s become much more patient this year (good thing) and has gotten lucky with BABIP (unsustainable thing) … he’s playing well and I’m hoping that he’s legitimately stepped it up, as opposed to just succeeded over the course of a small sample …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Jun 1, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know my "laissez-faire entropic conspiracy" angle gets old

But I must reiterate that for me 2006 seems more and more like an anomaly, generated by a confluence of new ownership wanting the team as competitive as possible so the Fremont deal would look as attractive as possible to the people and gov’t/commercial forces down there, plus the factors of (against all statistical likelihood) vexing the Mariners to an unlikely tune of 17-2 and of course the big fella with the rebar Hurting the AL in general so mashingly that summer.

Once Fremont was out, and the Cisco thing died as the economic situation worsened locally/nationally/globally, it changed and fell into the General Disarray we see before us. Macha (who ever thought he’d look so attractive, yet in hindsight he was marvelous in 2005 “grinding it out” and 2006 controlling somewhat-crazy players like Bradley and taking us to the Final Four) out, My Best Friend’s Wedding Crashers in. The downward spiral of Chavez, and the refusal of a GM who maybe identifies with players a bit too much for his own good because he still has issues with his own failed career as a player refusing to acknowledge it or do something to make sure the team would have some sort of 3B. So much water under the bridge, so many catastrophic injuries, so many mystery ailments, weird trades borne of a strange kind of desperation where once a savvy unseen before in the sport prevailed. A shambles.

Now ownership seems withdrawn, almost a bunker mentality has taken over as any potential San Jose deal has become more and more distant and obfuscated and the whole product, taken as a totality of a vision set forth by management, has suffered to the point where now we are in pain here, 3000 people at the games, no one knows what to do and the patient might die if something doesn’t happen soon.

Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?

by emperor nobody on May 30, 2009 10:29 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

They spent a lot more money in 2007 on Mike Piazza

than they did in 2006 on Frank Thomas …

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Jun 1, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The 2006 A's

were not even that great a team. They got lucky with one last great season with Thomas, and an off-year by the Angels. I think that the firing of Macha was really the key blow. After all, the A’s were awful in 2007 with Haren and Swisher. Ken Macha was a good manager, people need to admit that. Macha was underestimated during his tenure because he couldn’t give a good interview. Geren is a pretty good interview, and now look at the team.

by natethesnyde on May 30, 2009 11:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Geren is a good interview? Seriously?

I can’t stand listening to his platitudinous happytalk drivel.

by Faust on May 31, 2009 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like a platypus interview

by fruitattack on May 31, 2009 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I tend to agree that 2006 was an anomaly.

Billy Beane hit a jackpot in Frank Thomas that year, but he wasn’t that lucky with the other veteran players he signed, such as Mike Piazza, Mike Sweeney, Emil Brown, etc. etc. Beaned signed Thomas again in 2008, but it didn’t work out that time.

And of course there were the Mariners, the favorite punchbags of the 2006 A`s. The A`s had a losing record against both Texas and Angels, but won the division partly because they beat the Mariners 15 straight times. Mariners finished last in the division, exactly 15 games back. I found it both ironic and hilarious.

The 2006 team was a team of gamers (I remember Chavez saying that it was the least talented team he had been on). They played good fundamental baseball and won games with pitching and defense. The hard work of third-base coach Ron Washington had a lot to do with it, and Macha always had his team well prepared for the games.

Beane sealed the doom of the A`s when he chased away Macha and Washington, and promoted his friend Geren as the manager. How can any organization thrive when it promotes favoritism over merit? Washington hinted at it when he talked about Macha’s firing, “I don’t think it’s his track record. There is a lot going on behind the scenes,” Now both Macha and Washington are managing teams that are leading their division. Good for them.

In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.

by javaball on May 31, 2009 12:15 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I would argue that some of the players at the center of that '06 team,

namely Kendall, Chavez, and Kotsay, were indirectly responsible for the A’s organizational collapse. The A’s paid these guys a lot of money because they hadn’t produced better alternatives on their own. You could tie Kendall to the Rhodes/Redman contracts, but the fact is the A’s were locked into Kendall for at least a year longer than they would have been Rhodes/Redman, and they could have dealt with either of those two’s contracts separately at a later time – its not like Redman’s contract was totally unreasonable.

In any case, these were the olds the A’s brought in to sustain their contending streak, and from ‘05-’07 Chavez, Kotsay and Kendall were combining to cost the A’s over $25 million per year, so that by 2007 the A’s were fielding an $80 million team of suck.

In hindsight, the ‘06 team looks even more like a running contender in its last gasp – an organization willfully sacrificing its future for one last hurrah. I’d say a better question might be whether the A’s should have attempted to rebuild in earnest around 2004, because they might have been able to rebuild at a quicker pace had they made the Hudson/Mulder (and possibly Zito) trades and not made the Teahen/Cruz/Ethier trades. But I think the answer is no – I prefer for the A’s to compete whenever they have the chance.

I agree about Macha though. With the exception of 2004, I thought he was pretty good.

by scromulus on May 31, 2009 12:21 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

+1,000,000 to the power of infinity

Ethier turned out to be a monster, didn’t he? sigh

Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?

by emperor nobody on May 31, 2009 1:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

oops, meant for scromulus

Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?

by emperor nobody on May 31, 2009 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And his business happens to be the genreal managing of a baseball team so as to...

…profit — long term — from it. This is exactly why he and the owership of the team [and don’t forget that he is part owener] will not drop a ton of money on players’ payroll if the aggregate fan is not willing to reciprocate in the arrangement. So it is a head scratcher to me that fans should expect him to spend , spend, spend, if far too many of the fans are not willing to do the same. There’s no genius in avoiding the throwing of money down the rabbit hole.

by LowcountryJoe on May 31, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the catch-22, isn't it?

Why should the team spend money if there are no fans in the seats?

Why should fans spend money on tickets if the team won’t provide a product that fans want to see?

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup

by UncleLeo on May 31, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe that the correct chicken-egg order is:

Spend the money to create a team worth watching, recoup the money in attendance and fan interest.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 31, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I almost said "chicken/egg" instead of 'catch-22'.

I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone - the chances that all the functions of an individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.
~George Gallup

by UncleLeo on May 31, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But enough about hitting 100 fly balls to Jack Cust

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 31, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the long run...

…there should be a product that fans will want to see and the payroll will probably not be that outrageous. The team will be winning, the fans happy, much more patient, and less irrate. And the owners profitting. MLB team’s GM profitting in a small market with flakey fan base = business genius or just business?

But, in the long run and as Keynes might be paraphrased saying, “We’re all gonna die!”

by LowcountryJoe on May 31, 2009 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

Never, Never, NEVER give up

by hero66 on May 31, 2009 7:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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