Geren's Ineptitude Exposed Again In Doubleheader Sweep
by Nico on May 29, 2009 8:28 PM PDT
466 comments
Final Scores: 6-3 Rangers and 5-2 Rangers
Game 1: Travis Buck hit a 2-run HR in the 2nd and Josh Outman struck out a career high 9 in 6.2 IP of 3 hit ball, but Marlon Byrd's HR off Outman tied the game 3-3 in the 7th and back-to-back HRs off Santiago Casilla in the 8th, by Andruw Jones and Nelson Cruz, gave Texas a 6-3 win.
Game 2: Texas scored 4 runs in the 1st inning off of Edgar Gonzalez, capped off by Taylor Teagarden's bases loaded two-run single, and the A's offense was...well...the A's offense.
This double-header was painful for me to watch, but not because the A's lost twice, not because the A's fell 10 games under .500, not because the A's dropped to 10 games out of 1st place. The most painful part was the occasional shot in the dugout of Ron Washington, whose intelligence, intensity, and high expectations cannot be denied by anyone who has followed his career. The A's aren't going to win the West, so I hope the Rangers do - they were smart enough to hire Ron Washington to manage their team and they deserve, as he deserves, some success.
What's remarkable to me is that a decision Bob Geren made in New York, to bring the infield in with runners at second and third and nobody out in the 2nd inning of a 0-0 game (Brett Gardner vs. Dana Eveland), which I thought was evidence of a manager who had no strategic understanding of the game, is now only the THIRD dumbest decision that I think Geren has made. I thought walking Russell Branyan in Seattle (ahead of Jose Lopez' game-winning hit) to load the bases was even more moronic, but tonight Geren outdid even himself, ordering an intentional walk to Chris Davis to load the bases in the 1st inning of Game 2.
Chris Davis had struck out all four ABs in Game 1, and finished the double-header 0-7 with 6 Ks. He has now struck out a major league leading 77 times, including 23 times in his last 34 ABs. He is batting .194 and will likely be optioned to AAA. In sum, he is essentially, this season and especially right now, the equivalent of a pitcher batting. I was truly in disbelief when I saw this move being made.
I'm sorry. Bob Geren is simply not fit to manage a major league baseball team. Even stupid managers don't make some of the decisions he has made - and it's not like his team plays good fundamental baseball, or exudes any noticeable intensity or joy in the dugout or on the field. A's players - who are both young and limited in talent and need every advantage they can get - and A's fans, deserve better.
{Reminder: If you want to join SoCal ANers for the Dodgers game on June 16th or the Padres game on June 20th, remember to email baseballgirl ASAP. Her email address is: baseballgirl1976@hotmail.com}
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billy beane
most overated person in all sports
by Hooz on May 29, 2009 8:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If you ask nicely,
I will break you down into tears with a flood of hard data the contradicts the very essence of your statement.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your spelling is "overated," unless you're claiming that Beane has been eaten too much,
in which case, grammar notwithstanding, your point might be more accurate.
But seriously, if Beane wants to reclaim his place amidst the vanguard of baseball minds he better hire his next manager off a blog.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Screw the data the bottom line is wins and losses IMO
Beane is not performing like a good GM. Especially the last three years. There are many reasons why. Most of you know them. Bob Geren, Art Howe, Ken Macha, Bob Geren, Esteban Loazia, Jack Hannahan, Dana Eveland, Bobby Crosby, Eric Chavez Hurt but no drafting, Bob Geren, Russ Springer, bringing up Edgar Gonzalez who sucks, Injury after Injury but not addressing the problem, Still living in the walk, walk, 3 run homer world without the power, NOT FIRING Bob Geren YET,
Some of you people think Beane is still a genius when he continues to put this embarrassment on the field day after day. That’s fine as everyone has their opinions. We all love the A’s but they simply suck goats balls and how anyone in their right mind would pay to watch them in person is beyond me. I will still listen everyday and somehow hope they win but it angers the fuck out of me everytime we lose. Great writeup as usual, Nico but the bottom line is the GM. He is responsible for putting this crap on the field and he needs to be held accountable. The media need to give him a ration of shit about this and the genius tag needs to be dispensed with once and for all.
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read "but they simply suck goat balls."
I laughed. Thanks, Trainman.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know Nico
I forgot about your afinity for goats when I typed that. I think I am being hard on the goats there because goats are too good to have their balls sucked by the A’s and their staff.
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if it's appropriate to make a joke that nobody is
too good to have their balls sucked. It probably crosses a line though…
by OldhamA on May 30, 2009 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm not too good.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 30, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SUCKING GOAT BALLS = UNDERRATED
They're called RUNS for a reason.
by connie mack on May 30, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont understand
What people expected when Beane said he was rebuilding.
Everyone is shocked that that = losing for a few years?
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on May 29, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not in the anti-Beane camp at all, but...
trading Carlos Gonzalez doesn’t scream “rebuilding” to me. This 2009 season hasn’t been retooling, reloading, or rebuilding. It’s been an abortion.
by DDroney on May 29, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was key - I still like C. Gonzalez better than Sweeney
because he’s a better CFer and has more upside. Maybe he’ll turn out to be crap, but the A’s NEED more players with higher upside and fewer “tweener” players (meh defensive CFer or meh hitting RFer) like Sweeney.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ryan Tweeney
"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott
by scatterbrian on May 30, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Cargon was a tweener.
Cargon had serious defensive questions about his ability to play CF long term. Most pegged him as a long term RF and not a true CF. Sometimes you find a tweener that exceeds his projections to play D in CF. Other times you get 4th OFers.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, except
CarGon has a cannon arm, and a bat with some actual power in it.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And speed
He may never post an OBP high enough to make him a good hitter, but he is likely to hit with some power and continue to be a solid defensive CFer.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again that is AFTER last year. When the trade was made he was considered a tweener.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which makes no sense when talking about him playing RF or CF
He profiled to be a tweener, not having enough range for center and possibly not having enough power to make him an above average starting corner outfielder. His arm just means that he was a CF → RF candidate rather than a CF → LF guy.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The power makes a lot of sense.
What else do you want from a corner outfielder, and if Sweeney and Gonzalez have the same range (which is generous, in Sweeney’s favor), a better arm is going to make Gonzalez a better centerfielder.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again im not comparing the two...
Until last year Cargon was not thought to have the range of a true CF and questions about his ability to put up a corner OF OBP make him a tweener.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until last year...
When was the trade made? I am aware that you are mortally opposed to conceding anything in an argument in which Nico is involved, but there’s way too much killing the messenger going on in your responses.
As someone who views themselves in between Nico’s “my eyes tell me what they need to see” approach and PaulThomas’ “I don’t even watch A’s games” approach, I’d welcome a productive dialogue with you, but that’s only going to work if you’re interested in it.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record, jeepers, I do think stats are important
as well as observation. The two, working together, can help to cross-check one another.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me clarify.
When the A’s traded for Carlos Gonzalez in the Haren deal, he was considered by Baseball America at least as a tweener.
I am not mortal opposed to conceding things when Nico is involved. However I find that Nico rarely addresses the substance of the arguments that I make. As such, I is hard for him to make cogent points concerning my arguments that would warrant me conceding to them. If you look at my discussions with Waddelcanseco, who is my favorite poster left (actually I haven’t seen him around much recently) after the great stats poster exodus, I concede quite often when he has valid reasoning for his arguments.
My only point is that if you want to complain about tweeners you should be complaining about how we shouldn’t have acquired Carlos Gonzalez in the first place because he didn’t have true CF range.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 31, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow more typos in this one than there should be.
mortally not mortal. As such, it is.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 31, 2009 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BA was indeed skeptical about his range long-term.
Unlike Sweeney, though, Gonzalez has shown significantly more pop in his minor-league career than Sweeney (he’s slugged .482 compared to Sweeney’s .405). That disparity would actually be higher if you looked at the numbers at the time of the Haren deal, since Gonzalez only slugged .416 in Sacramento last year.
In Gonzalez’s case, it wouldn’t be a disaster if he couldn’t stick in center, while in Sweeney’s case it clearly would (or will) be. There is enough merit to CarGon’s bat to make him a worthwhile risk as a “tweener,” and thus no reason to complain as vociferously about him being a tweener as you would Sweeney.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 31, 2009 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look, Im not comparing Sweeney v Cargon...
because Cargon is/was a better prospect. I am just saying, that when acquired there were questions about Cargons ability to get on base enough to produce at a corner OF position and questions about his longterm range. Is he a better risk than Sweeney was? Of course, thats why he was a centerpiece and not a throw in.
If Nico left his statement at “The A’s need more players with upside” or the A’s need prospects with more talent, I would agree, though there are several coming up the pipeline with such talent.
The problem with Sweeney who is essentially playing league average CF defense is that he can’t hit to a even CF standard, not that he is a tweener. Acquiring tweeners isn’t a problem its counting on players that can’t hit their way out of a paper bag.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 31, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which by some accounts was forced by ownership.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was also like
“WE’Z GON CONTEND IN 09” back in the off season.
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 29, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Screw the data, the bottom line is - er - wait - um - data?
Just relax, pour yourself a glass of red wine, get in your comfiest sweat pants, lean back a little, read this and actually think about what it means:
- Oakland’s average rank in terms of payroll in Billy Beane’s first 11 years as General Manager (1998-2008): 23.9.
- Oakland’s average rank in terms of wins: 9.7
Not too bad, eh? Of course, anyone doing the things I instructed at the top of this post would calmly reorganize their nasty opinion of Billy Beane. But hey, the last two years haven’t been too great.
Anyway, just for fun, let’s throw those out and look at these:
- In Beane’s first 9 years those ranks become 24.2 (payroll) and 7.7 (in wins).
- That’s literally a playoff team with the 24th payroll in baseball.
Moral of this story: Beane haters need some motherfucking perspective.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Take the blinders off
we have perspective. Look at Minneosta. Their GM knows what he’s doing and they make the playoffs often.
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am talking about 2007, 2008 and 2009
If you took the time to read that part you would see what I am getting at.
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read all the parts.
He fields less talented teams 3 years in a row and you want his head.
That lacks perspective.
A whole shitload of perspective.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what about his choice of managers
The fact that he has not fired Geren yet and has hired all these lame duck “Yes Sir” managers should be an indication that there’s something rotten in Oakland
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok.
You keep making points that are unrelated to the smashing evidence I presented.
Payroll in the lowest third.
Wins in the highest third.
Is it not you who said that the bottom line is wins and losses?
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can sit there and worship this person if you wish
trotting the same manager along with the same Davis, Hannahan and Crosby while having no replacements in line is inept and 3 years of that is enough to make most fans puke.
If we didn’t care about the team, we would not be bitching.
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're using hyperbole.
I’m using very simple numbers.
Though I suppose it’s totally natural to root for the underdog – and since Beane’s been painted by many as some flawless and handsome god, people have been after him from the start.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
people have been after him from the start.
When did this starting point tip off?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When his teams started winning.
by sleepingcobra on May 30, 2009 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which was when?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
seriously?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott
by scatterbrian on May 30, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your perspective is Minnesota
You’re throwing out 28 other teams.
Blinders?
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I was a Seattle fan
I could make this argument easily, or so I think, but be labeled as a hater.
I know little about the A’s, but in my humble opinion, ineptitude starts at the top. Ownership, Beane, Forst and whoever else runs the operation. That’s true in every sport.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, except that
Beane’s been doing a great job. 2, 3 or 4 down years is nothing. Name a team who doesn’t have 3 down years and I’ll show you not enough teams to fill 1 division.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I accept the limitations of my knowledge
But, it doesn’t take much to say Beane isn’t doing a great job. If he was, this team would have better management from top to bottom if he was. Simple.
Your statement is an opinion based on previous years. Is rebuilding a bad thing? No. But I don’t think your statement is that simple.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your knowledge is just fine
But you’re still missing the point – Beane is doing a great job – in baseball we measure how well a team is doing according to wins and losses. Check out my post above for those numbers.
To wit, managers have very little to do with the game, ultimately. If you have good pitchers and good hitters, you’re just going to win games by the sheer force of your excellence. Managers only really come into play in tight games – and at that not much still because most managers make similar decisions in similar situations – so it’s usually a tactical wash.
I don’t disagree that Geren has been bad, though. I do disagree that it is Beane’s fault. Beane has had a very low payroll year in and year out. We’re lucky we’ve been to the playoffs once in the least 11 years. I think that we’ve been spoiled, actually, and that these down years sting all the more because of it.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Okay. Well, I guess I’m going to be more critical of the organizaton (whoever is running it). I agree managers have little to do with the game, but Macha & Geren sure have screwed up games continuously. Especially Macha, but I’m not the expert on Geren. I’ll leave it to everyone else who has watched like nearly every A’s game during Geren’s tenure to asses that.
I’m not blaming Beane. I’m saying this organization has problems. If they’re fixable or not I don’t know. I don’t know any answers. But, repeatedly, if they are the same issue’s, the finger points at someone. I’d be curious who those “someone’s” are, Beane or no. I’m an A’s fan. Was before Beane, and if he leaves, will be after that too.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
I admit I’m a fan of EiO and Zach has not posted anything for most of the last 2 years. That hurts me. (I’m not here to pick fights.)
But, still, if David Forst isnt the GM, and Billy Beane is, who cares? If Forst was the GM, and Beane is above him, presumably in ownership, he would still have to sign off any deal Forst made.
I don’t understand the insistence on protecting anybody’s reputation here. This team is suffering. It’s offense has been at a lower level since Tejada left.
In 2003, they were 9th. In 2004, 9th again. (I"m not going to reinsert links. It’s just ESPN.) In 2005, Oakland was actually 6th. In 2006, Oakland was back to 9th. 2007 they were 11th. 2008 they were last. So far in 2009, they are 12th.
I don’t wish to say that Beane is to blame if he’s not GM. I don’t care to assign blame here. I don’t care if Forst is the GM. I don’t care if he’s still the assistant GM. I don’t care how the dynamic works.
This team doesn’t score runs. (in fact it sucks donkey balls. Has since 2003 really.) That’s somebody’s fault. If Beane is the guy running this team, he’s at the top of the pyramid and who not to start with blame? If he rebuilds this team, then great. If not him, who?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh what?
What about my statement isn’t clear?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok fine.
If you want to peg someone at the top – why not peg ownership – who has strapped the team with a tiny payroll? The way Beane has managed that payroll has been more successful than it has not.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it's Beane's choice to remain GM (if in fact he is)
If he can’t do better with the resources he does have, than I won’t cut him slack because ownership doesn’t give him the resources other clubs won’t.
I question that in part because he did take the job for Boston. He had every opportunity to do what you are saying. He chose to remain in Oakland.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
or other clubs will
With 20 million or 100 million, it’s the job of a GM to find talent so his team can win games.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're all over the map.
1) He stayed here because of his daughter(s). But that doesn’t matter. You’re not making any points.
2) Don’t cut him slack. Do all the not-slack-cutting you want. No matter how much slack you don’t cut him, he’s still done a better job with a tiny payroll (or a medium or a big payroll for that matter) than a lot of other GMs. It’s just a fact. You can ignore it all you want and get back to your no-slack-cutting.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not ignoring anything. I’m saying this team doesn’t score enough runs to win games consistently. Whose fault it is I don’t really care. Ultimately it’s the 25 guys fault on the field. But they don’t put themselves there. Someone on the A’s decides to put them there.
Whoever that person, I would like to thank them for a terrible offense that, when I have watched the team, just had to groan.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minnesota has a low payroll
and their GM seems to have players who can perform at their positions just fine.
The fact that Beane put all his eggs in two baskets with Chavez and Crosby and then failed to draft in those positions the last three or four years when the injury problems arose, shows a lack of intelligence in that area Or more like total stubbornness on Beane’s part because of his man crush on both those players.
Your smashing evidence overlooks the fact that Beane is deficient in a few areas
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop it.
Stop it right now. You’re still avoiding the point: “wins and losses” (as championed by you) and “perspective” (championed by me).
If you keep bringing up one other team and a handful of bad personnel moves, you’re not getting anywhere.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
I am not going to respond anymore. It appears you think Beane is the second coming while I think he has many flaws and is currently making a fool of the fans that support the team. You have your opinion, I have mine.
The team has a very bad record the last three years. The number one reason is the team has a shitty manager and I am quite sure (Just a guess) that most of the players think that Geren is a total wanker and they have very little respect for him. The roster has many holes in it and you can not tell me there are not alternatives to Hannahan and Davis out there because a three legged giraffe could play better ball than those two. A few of the players here are lucky to be collecting paychecks and that is all they care about.
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you not respond if I don't respond FIRST!
1) I don’t think Beane is Jesus. I think Beane’s done a good job. Check that – I know he’s done a good job.
2) I don’t know about him making fools out of people. Maybe he has. I don’t feel like a fool. I’m gathering that you do. Beane wins.
3) The second paragraph here switches gears. Now you’re blaming the manager? Or the fact that there’s no one to play third? Or that the team is full of money-hungry baseball-haters? Giraffes?
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beane is responsible for the manager and the players
they are failing
Beane has not done a good job of late. Beane is not winning of late.
Who cares about 5,7,10 years ago. This is now.
Like I said, You have your opinion and I have mine. Mine is BEANE IS LOOKING DUMBER BY THE DAY, EACH DAY HE HAS HIS BEST BUDDY IN CHARGE. I am not going to change your opinion and you are sure as hell not going to change mine. End of discussion
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FUCK!
I was just about to change my opinion and you go and end the discussion.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love you, SC.
I miss you posting. Do it more plz.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 30, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's hard
to be around the Beane Sucks Mob. I get gang banged and can’t spend the necessary 14 hours a day to adequately refute their replies.
by sleepingcobra on May 30, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minnesota's days are numbered too.
Beane has given us seven contending years to three non-contending years. A lot of sports fans would kill for that kind of ratio, and most GMs get a lot more rope than you’re advocating for Beane. You just seem very impatient to me.
Might I ask who you propose would do a better job than Beane?
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If baseball doesn't put in a salary cap
That’s always going to be the case.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I mean
That if a salary cap doesn’t exist, a bigger market team with all the resources will be able to buy themselves out of the natural lulls.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like him to answer why
He has a giant hole at 3rd base and not hear the “We were counting on Chavy” excuse and why he puts out Jack Hannahan who perfroms worse than half the NL pitchers who bat at a postion where we need and expect offense from.
Why he has garbage like E Gonzalez and Eveland before him when he thinks we have a chance to contend and most importantly, why we have a manager who thinks he’s won the lottery when the team loses and finds a positive when the team gets thrashed game after game.
by Trainman on May 29, 2009 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think half of this is fair:
The A’s could have signed Branyan this offseason, and I really wish they had signed a veteran SP to take some pressure off the young arms (I bet that if Beane had known Duke/Eveland/Gallagher would all be injured/suck he would have).
At the same time, neither move would have made the A’s competitive this year. This franchise is trying to pull out of a system-wide rut that is bigger than just the MLB club, and its a process.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Branyan
Branyan would be nice but he is having a career year, is poor defensively, and historically have been pretty average offensively. In fact when taking defense into account Hannahan had actually been a more valuable player the previous two seasons.
by DeJay on May 30, 2009 3:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relying on Chavez was a foreseeable mistake. Having an injury prone backup in Garciaparra was a mistake as well although I didn’t expect him to be this injury prone – although this is an indication of the A’s/Geren’s earlier overuse of him.
However Eveland was a 2.7 win SP last year – it was not too much to expect him to contribute in the rotation this year, and I don’t think the manner of his collapse was reasonably predictable. Every team gives up innings to fringe SP like Gonzalez. He has had one good start and one bad start so I think we can cut Beane some slack over that.
by DeJay on May 30, 2009 3:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Explain this please?
The fact that Beane put all his eggs in two baskets with Chavez and Crosby and then failed to draft in those positions the last three or four years when the injury problems arose…
The chronic nature of Chavez’s injuries didn’t really appear until 2006. Crosby was ROY in 2004, and his inability to stay in the lineup didn’t really show up until maybe 2005. Some people might argue that both happened sooner, but that’s just Monday morning quarterbacking. So that’s three drafts, 2006, 2007 and 2008. Can you look back in those drafts and tell us who the A’s should have drafted, players who would also be helping the A’s right now?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott
by scatterbrian on May 30, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's in the past
Since the end of 2006, this team has been crap.
Debate that.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on May 30, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One could also argue
That the team hasn’t really been any good since 2004, and that they got lucky with Frank Thomas in 2006. Further, the A’s haven’t developed a single useful offensive player of their own under Billy Beane, unless you want to count Nick Swisher. They have picked up nice pieces via trades and free agency, but a real lack of ability to organically develop offensive talent is a persistant and vexing problem.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say they were at least more competitive before that in the sense they were in the division race
But since then, just a bad team overall and Bob Geren as the manager doesn’t help.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on May 30, 2009 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fair enough.
It seems to me that the beginning of the end was not getting rid of Huddy/Mulder/Zito, because Beane has done a fine job of retooling pitching, but the dismantling of the core offense of the early decade.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
who signed Frank Thomas?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
-Wayne Gretzky"
-Michael Scott
by scatterbrian on May 30, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That lucky guy, Billy Beane.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
=) +1!
me getting tired of all this losing, especially with the ugly mug in the dugout every game making lame excuses for all his boneheaded excuses……
Still, as we have all been debating for some time now, the blame starts and ends at the top. Billy Beane needs to step up to the plate and accept responsibility for this mess. He’s the architect and the building is crumbling in front of our eyes as we speak.
As always….Go A’s!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on May 30, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me thinks....
sleepingcobra is Billy Beane (or perhaps his mommy) in disguise. I look at 1 fundamental decision that BB got wrong and how it has continued to affect this team…the decision to sign Eric Chavez rather than Miguel Tejada to a long term contract. That turned out to be a stroke of genius didn’t it, napping reptile?
by Keystone State on Jun 2, 2009 5:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, Beane has made a lot of poor decisions.
I think he put the team in a place where it had to spend ‘07-’09 waiting on bad contracts in the hopes of extracting some kind of value from them (Chavez, Crosby, Kotsay, Kendall, Embree, Loaiza etc.), and it would have been better if he had never gotten into that position in the first place. Plus there was nothing much coming through the A’s system, and Barton, Herrera and Buck did not become the type of impact position players Beane had hoped. At least not soon enough for him to avoid making a bunch of trades.
But I never really expected him to be godlike, or somehow above the laws governing the 29 other GMs. I just figured he was a pretty good businessman, and I still think so given that his record is still more good than bad. I think to say he’s overrated depends on who is doing the rating and whether they’re using realistic criteria.
I’m willing to give Beane until the ‘08 draft class matures before I start calling for his head. The A’s went over slot a bunch last year, and a lot of the players they drafted are of a similar age to the players they traded for, 21-3, meaning the core of the rebuild is still a year or two from fully maturing. IMO that, contrary to popular opinion, this group contains some solid position player prospects – something Beane has lacked since long before this rebuild began.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My personal feeling on the farm system is
that the A’s should rely on it to win. If they aren’t doing that, i question why. Always have and always will. The A’s may not be able to keep the top tier talent because of money questions, but allocating the largeest chunk of your resources towards the farm seems to make the most sense to me. It worked for Branch Rickey. Although, having like 42 Farm clubs is a bit easier to do that too.
Still, the A’s farm system is a concern to me. They used to produce players out of the farm all the time. Why do players like (he just sticks out to me) Chad Pennington drop out of the system so easily?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
I think Beane’s failure isn’t that he failed to retain the team’s best players – a lot of those guys are either not very good or out of baseball right now – but that he failed to maintain a top tier farm system.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that has to be part of it
My other question is simple: If this team values OBP as they are so often said to have, why can’t they score? If they get on base, why can’t they score. I think Beane doesn’t value hackers at all.
I’ll preface this about saying what I think was personally brilliant about Ed Barrow (which there are a lot of things).
Barrow acquired Babe Ruth yes, and the team won, yes. But, I still think the WAY he designed Yankee Stadium was just as important as any of his other moves. If you build a gap in LCF that goes out to 469 feet, it doesn’t take a physics major to figure out you’re not going to hit the ball out of the park. If you get a CF that can roam the massive field out there, you’re going to increase the number of outs your pitching staff can get. It also means that any Left Hander who gets fly balls will be successful.
Case in point: Lefty Gomez.
Yankee Stadium was built for pitchers. Most of the great Yankees in history have been legendary hitters. Other than Ruth, not any of them played their home games anywhere else (except for that occasional game here or there).
So my question is simple: Why is it the A’s can’t focus on great hitting talent to supplement the fact they have a pitchers park? While that seems simple, it’s not always.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what's ironic is
They are last in the AL in OB% and SLG% (no shock there).
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they were last in 2008 as well
But 6th in OB% in 2007. Why?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can't hit
If a team can’t hit, the opposing team can throw strikes. Passivity - if a player lays off the first pitch and it’s a strike, he starts his at-bat 0-1.
I think the entire statistical story of OBP is based on the idea that all things are being equal, i.e. the opposing team isn’t specifically taking measures against good eye/no hit players. But pitching strategy plays a role in the game, and if players are taught to lay off any pitch that isn’t perfect, pitchers who nibble can get away with a lot.
by richwol1 on May 30, 2009 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's both refreshing and sad to watch Adam Kennedy,
who is both patient and aggressive at the plate, and who plays the game with a combination of solid fundamentals, risk taking, and intensity – it suggests you need to find Angels players if you want to find these qualities on an A’s diamond.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to have had Cabrera the past 5 years,
batting 9th and anchoring SS.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Farm System
The A’s farm system was widely considered to be a top three system in all of baseball at the start of the year and this is a concern to you?
by DeJay on May 30, 2009 4:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Having a great farm system doesn't mean much if they're only great in the minors
The recent track record of call-ups hasn’t been much to celebrate.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on May 30, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More importantly, I think, the A's had to trade away
tons of good major league players to create that farm system because they have been unable to produce better players themselves.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is difficult to have it both ways
With the A’s budget it is not financiallly viable to have a great major league team and a great minor league system. The A’s had an average major league and a terrible minor league system. Beane did an excellent job of restocking the system at the expense of mediocrity at the major league level.
by DeJay on May 30, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given the situation, yes I agree he did a good job
It’s just that with more shrewd recent drafting/developing, the A’s might have entered this rebuilding in a better position. The lack of attention/success in addressing the left side of the infield since 2005 is a big part of why the A’s are still not in great shape going forward. Crosby and Pennington were first round picks – oops. At third base…?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
There is obviously room for improvement. Drafting for need is a dangerous thing but with Wallace looking like he might stick at 3rd for the time being, and Weeks seemingly not being able to stay healthy that looks like a big mistake. The kick in the crotch is that if we went for best player available (Wallace) instead of drafting for need (Weeks), we would be better off and have better filled an area of need now.
by DeJay on May 30, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have continually passed on Major League talent in the draft and selected bums:
Oops, I mean Moneyballers…
Wallace, Smoak and Quentin would sure look god in green and gold and under club control right about now…
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by saint on May 30, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
there you are my friend!
I was wondering when I’d see you post today. Get ’em Saint!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on May 30, 2009 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
By "continually" do you mean a couple of drafts?
They’ve drafted and grown a good number of successful players. You’re just a cherry-pickin’ negative nelly.
by sleepingcobra on May 30, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch.
Smoak #1 on Baseball America’s hot sheet. Texas sure knows how to pick good hitters. The Texas A’s would be the most dominant team ever.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 30, 2009 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Um the A's drafted Smoak....
and he wasn’t available for their first pick last year.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And didn't sign him over chump change.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps but they did draft him to say otherwise isn't accurate.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
saint knows what he's talking about.
He’s referring to the fact that the A’s elected not to sign him.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really, there is a good arguement to be made that Weeks was BPA.
Smoak wanted to go to South Carolina… shit happens and he wasn’t around for our pick last year.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, no.
Saint has written on this site extensively about the decision to not sign Smoak. If you’ve been here long enough, you know exactly what he’s referencing.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC he said the difference was something like 200k.
And Beane has been kinda meally mouthed about why he didn’t pony up? Thats what youve been referring to right?
Sometimes you set a price. You have no idea what Beane’s budget for the draft was at that point. It was during the Hoffman era. Making those decisions 3 years later sure makes them easier too.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fair.
There is certainly some “hindsight is 20/20” in the view of Smoak’s non-signing we’re discussing. I think on the balance that Beane has learned from that mistake, which is why he shelled out unprecedented dollars to get Michel Ynoa.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that stars are found early in the draft or above slot
for the most part. Beane has had to work with stingy owners (Hoffman and Lew didn’t want to bust slot on his frat buddy Bud) and low picks. Its quite amazing that the A’s have done as well as they have.
I think a lot of the criticism of Beane is misplaced when it comes to drafting.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 31, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beane wasn't "mealy-mouthed" at all.
The alleged price difference was $50K, not $200K. That is based on Baseball America’s report that the A’s had offered $950K. In this interview with Blez, Beane stated explicitly that no actual offer was made.
This prompted some on AN to suggest that even if no offer was officially made, $950K was the amount floated unofficially by the A’s prior to the draft. But in the same interview, Beane also explicitly stated
I can assure you that if we were between $950,000 and a million dollars we would’ve found a way to get it done.
That implies one of three things (1) the A’s never suggested $950K at all, in which case Baseball America is wrong, (2) the A’s did float a figure of $950K but Smoak wasn’t going to sign even for $1 million, or (3) Beane is just lying about what happened.
Personally I believe it’s #2. Smoak’s “I’ll sign for $1 million” came conveniently after he knew how much the A’s had on the table and it was conveniently just a little more. If the A’s had offered $1.5 million, he would have said “I’ll sign for $1.6 million.”
Finally, if you believe Smoak really would have signed for $1 million, you need to explain why 29 other GM’s didn’t think so. Any team could have had him as late as the 15th round. You think Boston wouldn’t have drafted him in the 15th round if they thought they could get him for $1 million?
Yes, I know we’ve had this argument before (most of it is right there in the comments in the interview I linked). There is plenty of disagreement on it still. Just because Saint has “written extensively” on it, doesn’t mean the question is settled.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on May 31, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the perspective...
I was just reciting the argument that Jeepers was referring to off the top of my head.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 31, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
$1 million isn't chump change
And it’s not even clear he would have signed for that.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on May 30, 2009 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Flash said
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the A's system was only rated so highly because the experts thought they would only be great in the minors?
Who are you talking about specifically? Cahill? Anderson? Bailey?
by DeJay on May 30, 2009 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not talking about anybody specifically
This is Cahill’s and Anderson’s first full season of service if the few clips I’ve read I read accurately. Not really sure Bailey is. (I’m not the first & foremost guru of players on the farm.)
I’m not talking about one player specifically. When is the last player that the A’s produced off their own farm, not received in a trade, that made a real impact in the Major Leagues? Miguel Tejada is the only guy I’m thinking of. Too many guys slip through the cracks (without knowing which exact guys and details I’ll admit) for this not to be depressing for me.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their track record with pitchers is much better than it is with hitters
I have faith in the pitching prospects working out more than I do with the hitters at this point, but there is some potential in the likes of Doolittle and Carter, possibly Cardenas. Even then, of those three only Doolittle was actually drafted by the A’s.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on May 30, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
That criticism is really more about hitters. Especially since the only reason this team has won games is the pitching staff. Maybe a small part of that is defense, but the rest of the nod goes to the staff. Eh, so where is the other part of that?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kurt Suzuki.
Nick Swisher
Joe Blanton
Huston Street
Travis Buck
Andre Ethier
Dallas Braden
Mark Teahen
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 30, 2009 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I mentioned him.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 30, 2009 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys forgot Nick Swisher
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
If Ethier wasn’t with the Dodgers, and had actually played for the A’s at the Major League level, sure. But, he didn’t.
Glad Swisher is gone. Never did like him. But, the team has walked significantly less without him. But, they didn’t score runs either with him at a rate they needed to. Bleh.
Blanton and Street are pitchers. And, while I thought Blanton was okay, he certainly isn’t the loss to the team that Haren was. (Nor is that Blanton’s fault.) I’m up & down on Street. Again, he was a pitcher. Pitcher’s haven’t been the problem. HItting has. I haven’t criticized the pitching. (But, if I was to blame somebody for how Street was used, I’d blame Macha & Geren.)
I hope Braden does well. I hope Buck stays healthy.
Mark Teahan? That’s great he’s doing well. It’s so wonderful he’s doing it in KC.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you going to make a point
or are you going to just try and refute the answer to the question you brought up because it doesn’t coincide with the incorrect statement you made?
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 30, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Made it already
Hitters aren’t producing at the Major League level for the A’s.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me a lot of it is about talent evaluation
The A’s think Sweeney will be a hitter who can handle LHP and can hit for some power. I suspect that Carlos Gonzalez could put up a .300 OBP and be a better CFer overall than Sweeney, but we’ll see.
The A’s coveted Barton (which made sense), but really Cust is the only hitter they have coveted, either in the draft or from another team, who has shown any power at all in the 2007-2010 group.
That’s one of the reasons I’m excited about Chris Carter long-term; he could actually be a scary hitter to pitch to and throw strikes to. The A’s simply need more of those.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What level is Carter at?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AA now. The scouting reports
have indicated all along that he’s a player who should not be fast-tracked, that he’s really talented but also quite raw. I figure him to be in AAA in 2010 and in Oakland in 2011.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he a CF with power?
Which is why you covet him?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently not
A 1b. Hmph.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and Nico
I just looked up Carter’s numbers. I hope you are correct. I just worry about a team with so many potential DH"s. I wish the team had better positional talent in the outfield where so many guys could play in the field most of the time and DH on days off. I hate the DH rule. Which is antithetical to AL baseball, but oh well.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is that Carter will be a 1Bman
I see his ceiling as being Jim Thome (which is obviously best, best case scenario) with a more likely comp being an “ok defensive 1Bman” version of Jack Cust.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
It’s pretty unusual for a 1B to suddenly change position to the OF when he’s played 1b throughout the minors.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suzuki’s coming into his own as a hitter. Swisher is fairly average. Buck hasn’t done anything significant yet. Ethier blossomed elsewhere. So has Teahen. The rest are pitchers.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on May 30, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe this was the question
When is the last player that the A’s produced off their own farm, not received in a trade, that made a real impact in the Major Leagues?
I answered the question.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 30, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
I was focusing more on the hitters in a different comment of mine, so that’s where my thoughts were.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on May 30, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really meant for the A's
So it was a poorly posed question. My bad.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's quite a laundry list of mediocre (or worse).
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point is
that the A’s have only recently revamped their farm system so to expect immediate results is not reasonable. Beforehand the A’s have been consistently ranked in the bottom third of systems but still managed to produce all those useful major leaguers that MikeV listed below.
by DeJay on May 30, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No real game-changers, though
People that are nice to have on your team, but nobody all that special.
Last of the Ninth - Photography Site / jamesvenes.com - Blog
by Flashfire on May 30, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
I still have high hopes that Cahill and/or Anderson could be special.
by DeJay on May 31, 2009 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carter and Brown both could be
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 31, 2009 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I’d put Cardenas and Dixon in there as well.
by DeJay on May 31, 2009 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Cardenas will be underrated as a pro rather than being "special"
but i think he will be good. Dixon was one I should have mentioned along with Coleman.
In play, run(s)! Talk dirty to me gamecast, talk dirty. - Nevermoor on FK
by designatedforassignment on May 31, 2009 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's becoming "laughable"
What else are we supposed to do if Beane really thinks Geren is still the right man for the job? It’s a joke and everyone knows it.
I’m done being pissed off about this organization. Time to just root on the team for the hell of it knowing that there won’t be many victories compared to embarrassing losses. I will just concentrate on the few pieces that appear to fit and be happy when they succeed. It’s not the players’ faults and it’s crazy to blame them for being extremely average, if that.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 8:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Starting Pitching
Anderson
Cahill
Braden
Outman
Mazzaro
Andrew Bailey…
(possibly) for the next 6 years makes me smile.
by Colorado Fan on May 30, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can any of them hit?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can "FIRE GEREN NOW" be a new AN shirt?
I know it is forward and not witty, but it is a sentiment I haven’t heard an argument against lately.
Green and Gold Lantern Corps
by oaklandSMASH on May 29, 2009 8:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fire Geren day is better
Fans should yell fire Geren at next homestand.
by Arcman on May 29, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quite seriously, I was wondering if through AN,
we could get a chant going at the ballpark every night that goes, “Fire Bob Geren!” over and over and over. Every inning, every game.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be willing to fly out to Oakland
and support the chant if it would work. This guy is a freaking clown.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Garen is a clown
What was Macha?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It took me a few seconds to figure out what you meant
But that is too funny.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
QOTM
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 29, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
Since I’ve followed the A’s very little this year (and what I mean by very little is by checking ESPN occasionally some days and here occasionally too), is who do the A’s hire if they fire Geren?
This is the same team that manages to make money playing in a garbage dump in West Oakland Nico.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Garbage dump"
is a slur that is uncalled for. Many here would agree that the Coliseum is a bad park, but you don’t come here to our blog and diss our home. That’s just rude.
“West Oakland” is simply inaccurate. The A’s don’t play in West Oakland. Your unfamiliarity with basic facts makes us less inclined to take your other arguments seriously.
Lots of names have been floated as possibilities to replace Geren. Three within the A’s system are bench coach Tye Waller, AAA manager Tony DeFrancesco, and 1B coach Todd Steverson. Two of the candidates who were considered in 2006 are potentially available, Jamie Quirk and Orel Hershiser. Former A’s player Carney Lansford also gets mentioned a lot.
"Go ahead and overachieve, you scrappy Brett-Favre-colored walk-takers." —Rev Halofan
by iglew on May 30, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about...
Mike Metheny?
Has he recovered enough from his concussions to handle the grind?
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 30, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nico, I think this over the top
Time to breathe. So far, we know you have called out Geren, Beane and Vince whenever possible. So why do you like this team again?
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/
by louismg on May 29, 2009 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love the A's and always will, though frankly
I have found myself strangely bored much of the time the last two seasons. Still watch every game, though. I call it as I see it. If Geren makes a good move, I’ll say so. I still think Beane has the ability to be a very good GM, though his moves the last two years, and his decision to hire Geren, have negatively affected my view of him recently. Vince is Vince; I rarely comment on him.
But this team does not play hard or smart often enough, and the moves I describe in my post are such tactical gaffes they are not descriptive of a major league manager.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of the hallmarks of the a's has been an "organizational philosophy" that
taught offensive skills (strike zone control) and defensive skills similarly. has that changed in anyway?
by inbillywetrust on May 30, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know. Under Geren the A's have seemed to shift from
“rarely running or bunting” to “running recklessly and bunting badly.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd prefer "Fire Geren before the 2006 season" for my shirt.
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on May 29, 2009 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Geren’s ineptitude is exposed on a daily basis.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 29, 2009 8:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather not see his ineptitude.
Or any other part exposed of him.
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 29, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWSS
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 29, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its 100% baseball, which involves 60% losing
and is strangely not as good as a different brand of baseball.
At least the “tr ffic” ads on Bart were a good call.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rockies fired their manager
now they are winning their game and jason marquis about to go the distance
THAT COULD BE OUR A’S GUY!!!!!!!!!
by Wreckonized on May 29, 2009 8:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Cool, they finally got over that Hurdle, hope BB can with ours.
alaska A residing in Idaho.
by ak_A on May 29, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES!
And batting Cabrera 1st or 2nd all season! Don’t forget that one!
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 8:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You know, the thing is
I don’t like to be too critical of every decision a manager makes that I don’t agree with. It’s too easy. I think batting Cabrera at the top of the order is a bad idea, but on the other hand the A’s don’t have other natural choices for the 1-2 spots, Cabrera is a solid veteran hitter with some speed and bat control – there is at least a way to justify that an intelligent manager might make the same decision, even if I don’t agree with it.
But there is no way an intelligent manager, who understands baseball strategy, makes any of the 3 decisions I discuss in this post. No way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "bat control."
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it like "Y-Control"?
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously though, Nico
Cabrera hitting in the top spot in the order is more than just a cute, goofy little oversight Geren made after he fell off his adorable pony and bumped his head.
The lead off hitter gets the most plate appearances. Cabrera has a career .320 OBP and is .280 for the season. That’s criminal – and there are better options – like Suzuki or Kennedy – who would have been explored by now by other managers. Suzuki because he’s just clearly a better hitter – and Kennedy, who is batting like 70 trillion and should be up there as long as he’s hitting at this torrential clip.
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True dat - as you probably know, I'm a "Cust should bat #2" proponent
Right now I’d be going with something like:
Kennedy
Suzuki
Giambi
Holliday
Cust
Sweeney
Cabrera
Crosby
Hannahan
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cab, Croz, and Hanny?
What have you done to the left side of the diamond.
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 29, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL, going for quantity since there's no quality
Turn one of those into Buck, I guess.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's injured with a strained oblique.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's basically become a triangle.
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 29, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Buck!
Don’t forget Buck. If he could stay relatively un-hurt and Bob Geren accidentally looked at a couple of really, really crude stats with his mom (and his magic pony) there to help explain that the funny squiggles he was looking at proved that Buck is superior to Davis in nearly every way, Buck would be just dandy in the 1 or 2 hole as well. (Bonus Fantasy: Geren’s magic pony also describes “plah-toon splitz” to him in painful detail, which show that Buck is actually just as good at hitting lefties as he is righties.)
Buck
Suzuki
Cust
Holliday
Giambi
Sweeney
Cabrera
Hannahan
Crosby
Still ugly, I know, but more fun!
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just assuming Kennedy is the next to get injured.
Let me reload:
Buck
Suzuki/Kennedy
Cust
Holliday
Giambi
Kennedy/Suzuki/Sweeney
Sweeney/Kennedy
Cabrera
Hannahan
WIN!
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No matter how you cast the dice,
at least 5 or 6 bats out of 9 are going to be below average MLB hitters.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
WHEW!
Good thing a voice of reason popped in here. I thought I was crafting a World Series lock!
Generalizing it like this: “Everyone sucks!”
Precludes this: “It’s the manager’s job to make sure the team is in the best possible position to win.”
by sleepingcobra on May 29, 2009 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generalizing it like this: "Everyone sucks!"
Precludes this: "It’s the manager’s job to make sure the team is in the best possible position to win."
I disagree. If the team’s gonna lose you may as well platoon Buck and Davis in an effort to increase their value, even if it doesn’t put your team in a position to win. You may as well have your young guys practice bunting and small ball and give your young SPs a quick hook – even if it doesn’t give your team a chance to win now it might next year. And you may as well put your veterans in the heart of the line-up – it will cost you less than one win over the season and it will keep the vets willing role-models, and provide stability in a situation that is wanting for it.
I agree that Cabrera is not an ideal lead-off candidate but I disagree that Geren is a bad manager because he bats Cabrera lead off.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd only do this if
I were instructed to do it by Beane.
Hey wait – are these moves Beane’s fault?! They can’t be his fault – he’s infallible!!!!!!!!
by sleepingcobra on May 30, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love your posts...
but i don’t get the travis buck can hit lefties thing.
he seems to have some fluky years, where he pounds lefties, but for the most part he’s well better against righties. his 2007 in the majors was an anomaly, while his 2008 and 2009 were terrible against lefties.
his minor leagues stats are skewed by 42 at bats at midland in 2006, when he hit 405/490/538 vs lefties. aside from that year, he shows some pretty sizable differences.
i’m not stat guru, but i don’t get it.
by inbillywetrust on May 30, 2009 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow I don't think this is what's going to cost the A's the penant.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, but it's costing the team learning what it means to play hard,
and it’s costing the team a chance for the manager not to become yet another impediment in an already difficult situation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Learning what it means to play hard"
sounds no more or less meaningful than “benefitting from a strong veteran presence in the clubhouse.” I can think of better reasons for batting Cabrera ninth than that he’s a bad influence on the team, and given the overall unimportance of the batting order, I think its ridiculous to criticize Geren on this basis when he doesn’t even have the possibility of a good line up to begin with (and because there are so many better bases on which to criticize him).
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
but
Bob Geren is a nice guy gosh darnit and he wants all the players to play and if they try real hard he might give them a juice box. If the little A’s do everything Bobo says there may even be a pizza party in their future. So no more negative talk let’s all be happy that baseball super-genius bobo is the manager.
by sirbed on May 29, 2009 8:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why oh why did Beane extend Geren's contract this offseason?
Sure he plays a nice “pat you on the back for still being mediocre” type of guy. Maybe for that reason he is better suited as a bench coach. The “buddyism” in this organization is sickening. Ron Washington was on the verge of being fired last year, just a season and half into being hired as the manager of Texas. Here in Oakland, our sub .500 manager gets rewarded with an extension. It’s laughable.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on May 29, 2009 8:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't Disagree with Nico, But Earl Weaver Couldn't Win With This Club
I hate the Giants, and I hate the Lakers, but when I turned on my TV an hour ago I had to choose between watching The Giants, the Lakers and the A’s. I watched the A’s for about 5 minutes and just couldn’t take it any more. Man, I remember those horrible A’s teams of my youth: Picciolo, Wayne Gross, Shooty, Edwards … those teams were awful, but it was so much more entertaining than watching the paint dry on a daily basis these days.
The season has verified the haters: Chavvy’s done, BoCro sucks, and the Harden trade was a joke. (Yes, I know Harden is on the DL again. That doesn’t mean Billy couldn’t have gotten more for him than, uh, nothing.)
by solotar on May 29, 2009 8:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree that with Joe Torre or Bobby Cox,
this team would not be a great team. It would, however, play better fundamental baseball, play with more intensity/urgency, and win more games, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His decisions in that horrid Seattle series in which the A's blew leads is what did it for me
I understand if Geren was a rookie manager. I would grant him mistakes in bullpen management. lineup decisions, etc. But he is currently in season number three with the A’s and it seems that his ability to manage has gotten progressively worse.
And I’m well aware this team is not good. Any team that trots out Crosby, Hannahan, and Davis as your lower third is bound to lose two thirds of their games. It’s just the front office’s complacency in allowing these same underperformers more playing time to underperform. Why are we waiting? Something needs to be done.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on May 29, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m fairly sure that the players don’t have much confidence in this guy. How do they possibly take him seriously? Our guys are out there half-assing for this clown, but I don’t blame them.
by ATLDuck on May 29, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish they had the desire and talent
to win despite the clown…
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 30, 2009 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless things change rapidly in the next month
geren absolutely needs to be fired, along with a major team overhaul…didn’t an article recently suggest that beane is livid about the team and is basically giving them one more month before he tears it apart? beane’s own credibility is on the line here, too. it’d be one thing if geren was managing well, and he had little talent to work with. he’s got enough talent to win at a much better rate than this, and is doing a pretty bad job managing as well. if things don’t change quickly, if beane doesn’t let him go, it will be pretty obvious that its because they’re best friends.
by guy incognito on May 29, 2009 8:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If it takes a month for him to be fired
than BB is truly lost in today’s baseball world. He is someone whom I admire and respect but my confidence is waning each day. I’m sure he’s a great guy but he is not fit to manage this team and it’s not even debatable.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm only saying a month
because i recall that’s what the article said about the time beane seemed willing to give the team to get going. but yeah, whenever it is that beane decides is the deadline for this club to show him something, if they are still basically doing this, geren HAS to be fired.
by guy incognito on May 29, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read the article and I don't think that you can trade guys
whenver you are upset. I’m okay with Billy waiting for the best moment that will benefit the team long-term. It’s simply better to strike when the iron is semi-warm. As I said above I’m not upset with the guys who play for this team because most of them are simply not good yet. However you can fire a manager at any time and should do so once you know it needs to be done. BB has no bargaining chips when it comes to Geren. Pay the man whatever ridiculous money he has coming his way and start moving in a more positive direction.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry, but he’s morphing into Al Davis with that ego while trying to play a game that everyone is already on to.
by ATLDuck on May 29, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let me see...
This team has no:
- Identity
- Passion
- Skill at fundamentals (when was the last time we executed a bunt?)
- Consistent game day scheme
- Baseball intellect in the dugout
This all points to a very bad manager. Bob Geren should be fired. But because of his relationship with BB it aint going to happen. Shame on BB!
by EastbayBen on May 29, 2009 8:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We actually bunt more than I'd like as it is
by SkipT on May 30, 2009 3:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean...
“try to bunt” more than you’d like as it is
by Colorado Fan on May 30, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm okay with Geren keeping the young pitchers on a short leash.
Outman, Anderson and Braden all threw 125 IP or less last year. Its very rare for a young pitcher to go from that to 190-200 IP the next year. The pull-them-at-100 game plan seems very similar to that employed by Macha in ’05 with Blanton, who still managed to throw 200 innings.
Other than that, yes, Bob Geren is a horrible manager and I’m not sure why anyone would defend him unless they were insane or trying to provoke shit.
by scromulus on May 29, 2009 8:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Geren does need to be fired and the A's need to continue rebuilding.
Geren is a poor manager. I also don’t like the way he mismanages the bullpen. He overuses 2 or 3 guys in the pen and forgets about the other 2 or 3 guys. Let’s not forget that the A’s are not a very good team right now. This team was not built to win this year.
by Tbone 1 on May 29, 2009 8:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
IRONY!
All this talk of “Fire Geren Now” is counterproductive…
…no GM wants to be seen as being influenced by an internet blog. People will say, “Beane bowed to pressure from AthleticsNation.com, who were strident in their demand.”
You cannot look like you kowtow to a bunch of unpaid bloggers!!
"Losing feels worse than winning feels good." Vin Scully
by One won lost won on May 30, 2009 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
EXTEND GEREN AGAIN NOW!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a second...!
You say Chris Davis is the equivalent of a pitcher batting? Then what in the heck is our Rajai Davis equivalent to?!!! Let’s look at their stats: Chris Davis….436 SLG, .253 OBP, .689 OPS, .194 AVG.. and our R. Davis….162 SLG, .225 OBP, .387 OPS, .162 AVG.
I think Geren has a “Man-Crush” on Rajai
by Flamethrower on May 29, 2009 8:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
a single A pitcher batting??
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think single A pitchers batting could beat rajai.
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 29, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
comparable to an athletic trainer who played some JUCO ball?
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's comparable to a
washed up little league coach with tendinitis in every limb.
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 29, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I hear Maxwell Smart's voice-
“Would you believe a t-ball player with a wiffle ball bat?”
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
by JJ Martin on May 29, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
A Get Smart Reference is worth a + 1
There is no gravity - the earth just sucks.
by JLeverenz on May 30, 2009 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
12 HRs vs. 0 HRs
Might as well exhume the body of Kenny Lofton to play center.
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on May 29, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should I be glad I missed this absolute slaughter?
I’d assume so…
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 29, 2009 8:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yes.
’twas ugly.
"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains"--Pride and Prejudice And Zombies
by Leopold Bloom on May 29, 2009 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
:D
Now time to go bash my head in a wall.
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 29, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is firing Geren even an option?
This team, with it’s over the hill sluggers and prepubescent pitching staff, wasn’t built to win this year. Billy started this version of his rebuilding program when…last year. The preseason hype was exactly what it was…hype. They had to sell at least a few tickets, right? I think it would be tough to blame one person, even if it is the manager, for the play of this team. They are just a bunch of 1 or 2 year placeholders while the youngins develop. Let’s just hope they do actually develop…
by TheDream on May 29, 2009 8:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
We should expect our manager to make the best decisions
for the team to win games when it’s possible. Most of the posts have to do with his horrible decision-making during the game. Nobody expects him to “contend” with this island of misfit toys.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do blame the manager, however, when I see
a batter hit a pop up and jog down to first base, then stay in the game, play the next day, and do it again. And I’ve seen that a lot – and that to me is inexcusable. When you hit a pop up, you can’t control whether it’s caught or dropped. The only thing you can control is how hard you run, and a manager’s job is to insist that his players at least do that much.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fantastic point, Nico.
When the players look like they are quitting it’s because they don’t believe. If you have zero confidence in your leader than it’s time to get a new leader.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The contrast is drawn more starkly when one watches Kennedy.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
by JJ Martin on May 29, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kennedy plays hard no matter who he's playing for...
He has pride and he’s a samurai.
As a fan, I want 25 players who play with pride and discipline and intensity.
I can understand not liking the boss and doing a half assed job, but I just want everyone on the roster to know that when they get old and arthritic, they’re going to regret all the moments that they gave less than 100% and wonder what might have been…
DOUBLE REVISED- The magical goblins that live in the Reverend Billy Lard's shower just told him that actually, nobody's gonna improve this year and everyone will be released by June except for Suzuki and Cust... Sorry, kids...
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 30, 2009 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1000
" I may not know how to tango, but I sure as hell can man dance!" -Nate Robles
by DaSwinginA's on May 29, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
quote of the week for me.
" I may not know how to tango, but I sure as hell can man dance!" -Nate Robles
by DaSwinginA's on May 29, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, these guys have zero confidence in the manager!
by ATLDuck on May 29, 2009 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
see "Cabrera, Orlando"
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on May 30, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when Tejada got benched for not running out a play?
Was that Howe or Macha?
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by saint on May 30, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or when BJ Upton was benched twice, last season?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 30, 2009 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the A's young pitchers shouldn't pitch much over 150 innings this year.
You want to limit the amount of innings that young pitchers jump up from each year to 25 innings per year. This is why the A’s should consider shuting Outman,Cahill and Anderson down for the year in early September.
by Tbone 1 on May 29, 2009 8:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
O_O
KIELTY
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 29, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swish and Kielty!!
Gawd I miss those two. Actually met Kielty at a non baseball function and he was gracious enough to autograph a ball that I just happened to have. Very nice guy.
by swishergirl510 on May 29, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me go grab a burger and I will be
back to read this thread – and have some relish beyond what is on my burger.
alaska A residing in Idaho.
by ak_A on May 29, 2009 8:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
GREAT write-up Nico, couldn't have said it better myself
I will now proceed to get drunk and bang my head against a wall. Not exactly in that order.
" I may not know how to tango, but I sure as hell can man dance!" -Nate Robles
by DaSwinginA's on May 29, 2009 9:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I don’t generally like manager-bashing, but honestly I’m just stunned by some of what I see.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think we as fans want to see progress and we're seeing the team regress. that's a big problem for me.
by inbillywetrust on May 30, 2009 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take your point furhter
I would like a detailed plan of what they see the offense, defense and pitching to do for this team.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 30, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jemile Weeks hit homerun #2 tonight!
Let’s go 2011 Oakland A’s!
I am Ray Fosse's infatuations with Clay Wood and high-definition television.
by franks a lot on May 29, 2009 9:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Woo hoo!!!
Can he manage?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 29, 2009 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for posting it
I’m happy about the little things now.
These ain't your father's A's.
by ohtobe21likehuston on May 29, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yay 2011!
I hope that by then the A’s are kicking ass and that we can laugh about things like Raji Davis playing in actual major league baseball games.
will crosby spread his legs so far apart at bat that the games will have to be rated nc-17 -- emperor nobody
by day-to-day on May 29, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With our luck coupled with Beane’s foolishness, Geren will still be here in 2011!
by ATLDuck on May 29, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
giambi and gio for swisher?
If you had a lineup of 9 Jack Custs who hit(Cust career average) .239 AVG, .382 OBP, and .475 SLG, then your team would score 6.12 runs per game-totalling to 991runs a season.The 08 rangers lead the majors in runs score with 901.
by 9Custs on May 29, 2009 9:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I miss swish
Green and Gold Lantern Corps
by oaklandSMASH on May 29, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
chris davis
you mean to tell me that there was a player that sucked more than Crosby today, wow! and Geren walked him… i didn’t know how bad Chris Davis sucked because I forwarded through both games on the dvr.
And as for Wash, I’m with you. Since we suck so bad, I’m pulling for Wash to make the pl’offs.
by sf drift king on May 29, 2009 9:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I've come to the conclusion that we should keep Geren for the rest of the season
THEN can his ass. We’re losing. We kind of really suck. We’re not going to get better. So. If we’re going lose, let’s lose big. Let’s get that first pick of the draft next year. What better way to do that than to have an idiot at the helm making decisions that will steal a loss out of the jaws of victory. Let’s trade away our chips and let rajai play every game. Let O-Cab get as many ABs as possible. Let’s lose some games!!!
CuttheMullet, from "The Thread":
"Whenever I’m about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing."
by DMOAS on May 29, 2009 9:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So. If we’re going lose, let’s lose big. Let’s get that first pick of the draft next year.
We’re competing with the nationals, not an easy task.
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 29, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to compete with a team without an “O.”
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 29, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When was the last time the A's were in the top half of the AL in offense?
2003? 2002?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 29, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We might as well get our shirts with
Atletic
by fruitattack on May 30, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about shifting, subtracting and adding letters:
Apathetic
Green and Gold Lantern Corps
by oaklandSMASH on May 30, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it's poor form
to express to young players that losing is acceptable. Ever. Under any circumstances. Geren will continue to foster animosity, resentment, and a defeatist attitude. That boil needs to be lanced swiftly and painfully.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
by alox on May 29, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? How many times have I heard ...
after a tough loss, something along the lines of, “We just have to accept it and move on”? From successful players and teams? How many times have you? Many, I’m sure.
I think what you mean is that it’s poor form to express to young (or old, for that matter) players that playing as if you’ve already lost, whatever the score, whatever the difference between your team’s W-L percentage and the opposing team’s, etc., is unacceptable.
I think that’s what you mean, and I hope that’s what you mean. The literal reading of your claim is just silly, and would be disappointing from you..
by el campysino on May 29, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's probably talking about intentionally dropping games for the sake of getting that #1 draft pick.
THEN can his ass. We’re losing. We kind of really suck. We’re not going to get better. So. If we’re going lose, let’s lose big. Let’s get that first pick of the draft next year. What better way to do that than to have an idiot at the helm making decisions that will steal a loss out of the jaws of victory. Let’s trade away our chips and let rajai play every game. Let O-Cab get as many ABs as possible. Let’s lose some games!!!
From that post up there.