San Francisco shopping Cain?
by jahs34 on May 26, 2009 9:24 AM PDT
38 comments
There are lots of rumors going around, about San Francisco looking for a bat, and shopping Cain, who is still under control for 3 years.
Do you think we should trade Holliday for him?, sure its not the third baseman or SS of the future, but is an ace or number 2 pitcher for 3 more years, whcih could help us maybe trade one of our pitchers for the batting help.
Is Cain enough or can we ask for a low level prospec too?
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It was reported that actually the Giants are not shopping Cain and have no interest in Holliday…you never know if that if false or not, but I doubt we could actually work something out with the Giants. As good as Cain is, he isn’t what we need for this team and our biggest trading chip or draft chip is that of Matt Holliday, so I doubt Beane pulls the trigger. I am sure he would listen for offers for Cain because he too could be a nice trading chip, but I would have to believe that if a deal would come about it would not have Holliday in it unless it involved a third team
by ryanmoser on May 26, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
As was once famously quoted, "The rumors are always true, especially when they are not."
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on May 26, 2009 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain is worth more than Holliday
If we could trade Holliday for Cain straight up, I’d be ecstatic.
Don't believe in yourself.
Believe in Me who believes in You.
by Zonis on May 26, 2009 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ a million
Are you kidding me?! That would be the heist of the century if we could somehow get Cain for Holliday. Wow. Won’t happen, though.
And if it’s true that the Giants “aren’t interested” in Holliday, well, that just shows how unbelievably stupid the Giants are. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but the Giants offense is actually worse than ours … HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?!
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on May 26, 2009 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because the Giants offense is pathetic doesn’t mean that Holliday is a great fit. Obviously, he would help, but he might cost more than the giants want (might prefer to deal sanchez). Besides, it would help more if they could find a first base bat – that’s probably been the biggest black hole in the lineup this season, wish Ishikawa. Lewis, Rowand, and Winn aren’t exactly tearing it up in the outfield right now, but they could do much better, especially if Rowand could get near his career averages.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on May 26, 2009 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giants fan, I presume?
Holliday by himself doesn’t cure the Giants woes, for sure. However, were a trade to happen involving Cain coming over the East bay, you can be sure Sabean would be asking for one of the A’s 1st base prospects.
And what exactly is up with Rowand leading off?
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on May 26, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
correct, I'm a giants fan (and a cain fan, as you can tell from my username)
As for rowand, I was as surprised as anybody when I first saw the lineup the first day he hit leadoff. Seeing it on the screen was one of those moments where there’s no way you’re seeing what you’re seeing, but somehow it’s still happening. I wasn’t sure whether to burst into laughter or tears. (Rowand was slumping pretty horribly at the time – he’s actually improved his numbers quite a bit since the move)
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on May 26, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't suggest any trade scenarios,
I just said it would be stupid not to “be interested”. The Giants have to be interested in ANY player that might add offense. Doesn’t mean you have to pull the trigger, however.
I’d take Sanchez and another player for Holliday … I wouldn’t demand Cain, because I don’t think the Giants would deal him. But give me Sanchez and an infield prospect, and I’d bite.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on May 26, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, I guess I didn’t realize how far Holliday’s value has fallen. I haven’t been watching many A’s games – do you think he’s just been slumping, or were his great numbers a couple years ago a product of Coors?
I mean, Sanchez has shown stretches of dominance, but he’s still currently very inconsistant. It also depends if the giants thought they could get holliday to stay with the team past this year.
As for the infield prospect, not sure what A’s would be looking for, but I’d be interested if it was one of noonan/crawford/gillaspie (i.e., not Villalona).
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on May 26, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday's better than he has played, but also suffers away from Coors
An example being a long high fly ball to CF yesterday that would have cleared Coors instead of settling easily in Gutierrez’ glove. But he could hit .300 playing for a team other than Colorado and he has 25-30 HR power anywhere.
There’s no real hope of retaining Holliday beyond 2009 by acquiring him now, in that with Boras as his agent he will play the market. The Giants could try to make the highest bid, but I wouldn’t count on any loyalty factor and he certainly won’t sign an extension ahead of time.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on May 26, 2009 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From MLBTradeRumors.com
Schulman’s “very high-level” Giants source says Matt Cain is not being dangled, contrary to an earlier rumor.
and
Schulman believes the Giants are talking to the Nationals about Nick Johnson. However, his source said the team has no interest in Matt Holliday. Much has been made of Holliday’s slow start, but keep in mind he’s hitting .296/.406/.494 in May.
by LoneStranger on May 26, 2009 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I cannot believe the Giants would be trading him.
Regardless, I think it would probably be a good deal for the A’s. We are in desperate desperate need for some pitching, and he would instantly be Oakland’s #1 starter. My biggest gripe coming from Beane’s latest trades is getting guys who aren’t major league ready or that “could” be good in the future. When there is a sure thing out there you have to go for it. Otherwise you run the risk of ending up with a Charles Thomas, Meyer, Barton, Murton, Gonzalez (Gio or Cargon), Patterson, Murton, or Gallagher. You also end up with guys like Cahill and Anderson; while they may have promising futures, they are dealing with enormous inconsistencies presently, and there is no guarantee they will work things out. So while it’s nice to build your franchise with a boatload of prospects it doesn’t matter if your GM constantly incorrectly analyzes the players abilities and none of them turn out to be major league caliber players.
That being said, it would appear the A’s could use a legitimate 3B, SS, 2B, or 1B of the future. Well, I guess they actually need an entire infield, and probably a center fielder. While it would be nice to have a proven starter I think it would probably be the better idea to try and fill those other needs with Holliday.
What about Barry?
"Barry who?" Forst said, and I felt like I was in the middle of a knock-knock joke.
by KMoAsFan on May 26, 2009 9:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You can't group Gio, Cargon, Barton, and Gallagher with the others you've mentioned
These guys are 24, 23, 24, and 23 respectively.
Clay Buchholz got lit up just as badly as any pitcher on this list last year (he’s doing better now). Ian Kennedy, same thing. David Price has shown dominance as a reliever, but still hasn’t shown that he can dominate as a starter at the MLB level. Wieters isn’t exactly tearing up AAA (although he is decent). Andrew Miller has struggled dearly.
What the A’s do need to do is keep Gio and Gallagher either in the AAA rotation, or put them in the MLB rotation and keep them there for at least a series of 3-4 starts before immediately demoting them.
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
by Blicks on May 26, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"we are in desperate desperate need for some pitching"
Wow. A’s have 5th best ERA in AL. They’ve had 7 quality starts in succession. They have at least 4 potential ML ability starters waiting in the wings, including one who is one of the better pitchers in the AL when healthy. Their bullpen has had some rough moments, largely due to overwork, but still features a half-dozen arms that have gone through multi-week periods of near-domination.
If there is a “desperate desperate need”, aside from a high-quality manager, it would involve the left side of the infield.
by jasonthea on May 26, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not entirely sure if I understand your point correctly, but...
My biggest gripe coming from Beane’s latest trades is getting guys who aren’t major league ready or that "could" be good in the future. When there is a sure thing out there you have to go for it. Otherwise you run the risk of ending up with a Charles Thomas, Meyer, Barton, Murton, Gonzalez (Gio or Cargon), Patterson, Murton, or Gallagher. You also end up with guys like Cahill and Anderson; while they may have promising futures, they are dealing with enormous inconsistencies presently, and there is no guarantee they will work things out. So while it’s nice to build your franchise with a boatload of prospects it doesn’t matter if your GM constantly incorrectly analyzes the players abilities and none of them turn out to be major league caliber players.
Don’t you think that if Beane could get quality ML ready players, he, ya know, would get them?
"True fact: In a global thermonuclear war, the only human who would survive would be David Eckstein" -PT
by travdog6 on May 26, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, if Sabean trades Cain for Holliday
without getting something else good back in the deal, that should be the swift and abrupt end to his job.
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
by Blicks on May 26, 2009 10:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There should have been a swift and abrupt end to his job after the AJ Perzinski trade.
Never underestimate the ability of Brian Sabian to trade good long-term starting pitching for bad short-term hitting.
Sometimes life will strike you out on a curve ball and the only choice you have is to flip off the umpire and walk to first base anyway.
by Threepwood XX on May 26, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah true
And then sign middling starting pitching to long term contracts to plug holes,of course.
At least the Giants were legitimately competitive at that time, as opposed to a mediocre team which isn’t going to be the frontrunners of the division by adding just Holliday. But still, the AJ trade was inexcusable.
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
by Blicks on May 26, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt the Giants will trade Cain, but they’re in desperate need of a bat and they have a great starting rotation, so they should definitely look into it.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 26, 2009 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
matt cain
is the best pitcher the giants have this season, hes been getting a little run support and he sports a 5-1 record
i highly doubt they are gonna break up the rotation they have.
by Wreckonized on May 26, 2009 1:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not really. His walk rate and K rate are actually down. Lincecum's still the uno!
by Pucking Insane on May 26, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Walk rate is up I meant to say)
by Pucking Insane on May 26, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that earlier today in the paper.
It’s kind of always something that has followed him in his pro career. Still, he has incredible stuff and has the ability to get himself out of jams with the k.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on May 26, 2009 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Pierzinski trade might be among the worst in MLB history
Even though Liriano is a question mark, at the very least he still provided a season of dominance. Bonzer’s not doing much right now, but the trade was horrific for Joe Nathan alone. Brian Wilson is a joke of a closer.
Even though he’s made a few shrewd moves, I would not be surprised by anything he did. Though I’m an A’s fan, I’m a big fan of Cain and love being able to watch him on TV all the time and would be pissed if Sabean traded him.
I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too.
by ORthey on May 26, 2009 1:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No...
we NEED hitters.
"I'm not going to buy my kids an encyclopedia. Let them walk to school like I did." -Yogi Berra
by brenarlo on May 26, 2009 1:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Would I love to have Matt Cain? Yes. Do I think it is smart to trade our best hitter who will fetch us two #1 (as I doubt Matt goes to a bottom 15 team in baseball) draft picks or a nice haul of players for SP Matt Cain in which SP is our greatest depth in our organization? – No.
Cahill, Anderson, Vin Mazzaro, Yona, Braden…then you throw in Gallagher, Gio, Simmons, and a handfull of other low minors SP for our future staff…..We need positional players period, and if Beane can’t get him from trading Holliday, I say let him walk, take the two picks + our own (which is looking pretty good right now) and save the 10s of millions and sign a few others in a depressed economy..
2010 FA aren’t looking too bad, but not great.
Nick Johnson…..
Adam LaRoche
M. DeRosa
O Dog
Tejada
Beltre
Crede
Glaus
Chone
J Bay
Damon
A. Jones
Bobby Aberu
Dye
Vladdy
maggs
Blalock
Huff
Matsui
by ryanmoser on May 26, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
emperor nobody: "can ben copeland play third will the mcgwire throwback jersey be sponsored by balco labs i think i am having non-nerve-damage related chest pains well there’s holliday’s homer for may"
Clayton Tanner. I have nothing witty to add.
by walkoff baltimore chop on May 26, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not this.
If Matt Cain is on the table for Matt Holliday, you take that deal and fucking RUN before Sabean gets fired and the deal gets nixed.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 26, 2009 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotta agree with mike v. here
I actually could see this deal happening if the A’s want to throw in a couple of mid-level prospects in addition to Holliday. This would help alleviate the sting of losing Holliday to FA if he decides to play elsewhere. Cain would automatically make the A’s rotation a shitload better and put a legit #1 starter in Oaktown as well. Still, the greater need is position players in the left side of the infield so we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on May 26, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but let's just say this deal were to happen.
All of a sudden, the rotation looks like:
Cain
Braden
Anderson
Cahill
Outman
Plus you’ve still got Gio and Gallagher who are bouncing around, Mazzaro who is probably less than a season away from being MLB ready, and then guys like Simmons, Henry Rodriguez, and De Los Santos who are a few years out still.
That list doesn’t even mention Duchscherer, who could very well agree to a low dollar 1 year deal to prove he’s healthy and then look for a bigger FA contract after 2010.
You wouldn’t be comfortable dealing away one or two of those pitchers for a high level 3B or SS? As pitching starved as some teams are, it seems like it would be a pretty easy deal to get done SOMEWHERE. Not necessarily a Ryan Zimmerman, but perhaps an Alex Gordon could be acquired without too much being given up from that list.
"I’m Joey Devine, I’m what Joba Chamberlain would be if he was good and nobody had ever heard of him."
by mikev on May 26, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I actually would not have a problem dealing away some of the pitching prospects at all.
I was just addressing your point about Holliday. I’m pretty sure if there’s a way to get a deal done for a SS or 3Bman then Beane is gonna find a way. But adding Cain would be sick!
Zeigler to Geren…."A-Rod? He’s my bitch." -alox
by mrod on May 26, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wishful thinking
I think if Holliday was under team control for another year, the Giants WOULD actually do that deal. But with Holliday walking to the highest bidder in 5 months, no way we get Cain for him, not without throwing in some really good prospects on top of it, and probably not even then. Do they really think they can catch the Dodgers by gaining a big bat but losing one of their best starters? Don’t think so!
by GreenOctober69 on May 26, 2009 4:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What was truly the point then?
Why even aquire Holliday then? Beane had to have a decent idea that he was going to trade him at SOME point… he knew about Boras, the economy, etc. And now, I bet he could get a better package for the three guys they sent to colorodo than for what they got! Does any of it make sense? Was Beane THAT convinced the A’s could actually contend this year?
Where's your picket fence, Love?
by Tim Blekicks on May 27, 2009 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would trade Holliday + Mazzaro for Cain
Never, Never, NEVER give up
by hero66 on May 26, 2009 6:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's see now...
If you (Beane) were to call Sabean to find out what it would take to get Cain, the response you would get would be more like Carter, Gallagher, and a low to mid level prospect. I honestly believe that they don’t want Holliday near enough to give up very much to get him. Not even Sanchez for Holliday straight up. Just cause Sabean’s boss gave Zito 5 times too much money, does not mean that he is equally retarded.
Your 2009 Oakland Athetics: This time, it's personal.
by Kallus on May 26, 2009 10:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Beane is going to panic
He know’s he has one of the best hitters in baseball on a rent a half year contract for a team that wants to make the playoffs – and there will be teams asking, plenty of them. If not, he waits it out takes a sandwich pick + a 1st rounder or 2nd rounder depending on what team Holliday chooses (my guess in the Mets – so it will be a 1st rounder). I’ll take the 3….1st round draft picks in the 2010 draft (including our own). + Remember if Duch comes back somewhat strong he can swing him for a decent prospect and Springer and O Cab will get us a low level prospects - if we continue on our great record of 09’…..C. Barmes will be available, Troy Glaus/Beltre could be had for really cheap come next year….just an example
by ryanmoser on May 27, 2009 9:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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